Thread 149686601

Crazy to think that there were times when Aquaman was 4th biggest DC superhero

>>149686601 (OP)
He was one of the best selling DC comics during the early New 52 years.

>>149686691
Probably because people like (or at least used to like) Geoff Johns

>>149686601 (OP)
He’s still an A-lister.

>>149686601 (OP)
The superfriends cartoon turned him into a joke, and Robot Chicken ran with it and made him a punchline, and DC has been self conscious about it ever since.

>>149686601 (OP)
Technically Robin is ahead of WW and Aquaman

>>149686601 (OP)
AC kicks ass, you chump.

>>149686601 (OP)
Aquaman is awesome.
I wish he hadn't fallen off so much since the Superfriends days. He's barely even brought on in Justice League stories despite being one of the seven original members.

>>149687856
If we're going by comic book sales in the late 50s through mid 60s the biggest DC characters were
>Superman
>Superboy
>Lois Lane
and
>Jimmy Olsen
All of those books sold way more than Batman or any other DC superhero

>>149686601 (OP)
When Filmation made their DC Saturday morning cartoon block they prioritized Aquaman shorts for some reason. Even though they did Flash, GL, Atom, Hawkman, and even Superman shorts, the Aquaman ones were the most influential and led to the creation of SpongeBob. Years later when Hanna-Barbera did their first Super friends cartoon they chose the 4 that had shows before.

>>149686601 (OP)
anon your dreams don't count

Aquaman's first solo series was canceled due to low sales. It was selling only 600,000 issues a month...

>>149686601 (OP)
What's crazier is that DC is still pretending Wonder Woman is in the top 3

>>149688289
They wouldn't survive replacing her. Doesn't matter that women don't actually buy or read her issues, they'd riot anyway.

>>149688289
She obviously still is.
Sure Green Lantern or the Flash may sell more comics from time to time, but no one in the public sphere knows who they are.
Wonder Woman is probably the fourth most recognizable superhero behind Batman, Superman, and Spider-man. Even if she's not crazy popular amongst comic book geeks

>>149688289
Wonder Woman is a weird character in general.
Despite being capable of drawing dimes outside of comics, she is seen as a d list by the creatives.

>>149688476
Wondy's always been popular to be top 4 superheroes of all time but ironically the comics board of 4chan that prides itself on being intellectuals about the medium somehow still insist she's a no-name for some reason

>>149688515
Well Wonder Woman is unusual for a superhero, in that she's not that popular amongst the average comic book nerd. She has more appeal with normies, and of course is mainly aimed and read by women and girls.

>>149688512
>she is seen as a d list by the creatives.
Because the creatives in the comics business are life long comic book fans themselves, they are usually hugely into Batman or Superman, or Green Lantern. Wonder Woman isn't usually read by those people.

"were" times? Jason Momoa's Aquaman made a billion dollars bro, he's still one of their biggest heroes.

>>149688057
You can hardly count Superman and Superboy as separate characters, anon.

>>149688669
Legally you can.

>>149688601
Yes, she is under a vicious circle, and the excuses used against her, don't seem to apply to other heroes.

>>149688679
Sure, but in terms of the most popular characters, Superboy is just a variation of Superman.

>>149688669
You can now since it's Connor Kent or Jon Kent as Superboy and Clark never filled that role.
But back then you certainly couldn't since Superboy was just the adventures of young Clark Kent in Smallville

>>149688276
>that used to be considered bad

>>149686601 (OP)
There was about 5 minutes when it was Green Lantern.

But it will always be Flash, even a incredibly shit movie cannot break the character like what happened to Green Lantern.

>>149688687
It might be gay to do so, but I think the problem could actually be a form of sexism.
I mean I can't think of any other superhero who's said to have no villains by people who've never read their book. Like I don't read Green Lantern, so I only know the most prominent GL villain, Sinestro. Imagine if people used that to say Green Lantern has no villains.
I just don't know why else people would be so headstrong in their ignorance about her

>>149688698
Yeah, obviously I was talking about Superboy as he was in the 50s through 60s.
Although I'm not sure that Clark never filled that role in current continuity - didn't they establish that he did in Geoff Johns' Superman: Secret Origins?
IIRC since the post-Crisis Superman merged with New 52 Superman, that's now his official backstory.

>>149688762
I thought so, but Harley was pushed really hard, even outside of the "Joker's girlfriend" niche.

>>149686601 (OP)
>>149688189
A simpler answer is that it's just plain easier and cheaper to adapt a character that punches things. Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Batman punch things. It's quick and easy, no need to think shit out or design anything super creative for filler episodes. Also Batman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman have options if censors want less violence. Batman and WW can lasso someone, Awuaman can have an eel or a squid trap someone. It's all too easy.

Green Lantern will always be more expensive to animate since you now have to design about 10-15 green objects for each episode.
Flash you have to constantly do weird things like try to invent a clever way to solve the problem by running or spinning, and you have to design and animate tornadoes and blur shots a lot.

Other heroes need to be explained, their powers are annoying to depict or confusing for an audience. It's easier to just have Batman punch a guy, or kick a guy while swinging on a rope.

>>149688289
Wonder Woman is only propped up due to being the first woman hero. That's it, everyone knows who she is because of prestige. No one can really name a good run or list two of her villains. She is just popular for being Wonder Woman and that is it.

>>149687844
>The superfriends cartoon turned him into a joke
not really, he was one of the coolest in the show

>>149688762
idk how people even say wonder woman has no villains when she has like literally all of greek mythology in her rogues gallery. high school kids have entire classes dedicated to wonder woman villains. It's like saying "THOR HAS NO VILLAINS" wtf do you mean he's got the entire fucking Prose Edda. how the fuck do Loki and Frost Giants count for Thor but Ares and Medusa and shit don't count for Wonder Woman? I don't get it.

as far as "X has no villains" off the top of my head I'd go with Green Arrow, I'm not a big green arrow fan but everything I've seen him in has either been Justice League stuff where it's a team effort, or shit like Arrow where he's blatantly a stand-in for Batman because they weren't legally allowed to use Bruce Wayne so they had to settle for the OTHER billionaire gadget guy with no actual superpowers. Off the top of my head I would ASSUME he's got beef with Roxxon or some shit because he's a billionaire and a conservationist so evil polluting corpos sound like the kind of thing he'd be up against, but I have no clue.

>>149688831
>No one can really name a good run or list two of her villains
pretty sure more people know who Ares or Hades or Circe are than Mongul or Parasite, I've never understood this criticism. You never watched fucking Hercules as a kid? You never read the Odyssey in high school?

>>149688969
>high school kids have entire classes dedicated to wonder woman villains
And for Circe in particular, you have the upcoming Nolan movie and that one popular TikTok Hamilton knockoff

>>149688476
The flash has a TV show for almost ten years, was in the JL movie and had an infamously bad solo movie. People are aware of who the flash is.

>>149686601 (OP)
Ideally, it'd be Batman, Superman and The Flash since they're the original Iron Man, Captain America and Spider-Man. Hell will freeze over before DC understands they're sitting on a Spidey-level goldmine with Flash and exploit it.

>>149688969
shut up retard

>>149686601 (OP)
>Crazy to think
Why? Everyone else was basically Batman with a different gimmick. At least Aquaman has a different setting and worldbuilding instead of ____ city populated with colorful gimmicky villains.

>>149688969
>how the fuck do Loki and Frost Giants count for Thor but Ares and Medusa and shit don't count for Wonder Woman?
Because Loki and the Frost Giants have an established and distinct characterization within the Marvel universe, and have been used as villains for quite some time.
The same is not true for Wonder Woman and Greek mythological characters, at least not to the same degree. The only one who really has an established DC characterization is Circe, the others are just haphazardly drawn from the mythology and usually differ from appearance-to-appearance (if they even show up more than once).
With that being said, Wonder Woman *does* have villains, but most of them aren't mythological characters. It's kind of a problem that modern Wonder Woman writers wanna do their own take on Greek mythology rather than developing her classic Golden Age characters, so her villains never developed into modern versions like Batman or Superman's villains did.

>>149688969
>I'd go with Green Arrow

Merlyn
Brick
Onomatapoia
Konstantin Drakon
Shado

Those are just off the top of my head. GA was actually quite good 2002-2007.

>>149688858
His Superpower was he talks to fish and owned a jet ski.

>>149688289
She's popular and iconic despite not being a big seller or draw. At least she has one successful movie to her name.

>>149688969
Wonder Woman having greek myth characters as villains goes back to the late 90s at best. Thor villains being norse myths goes back to the very beginning in the early 60s. It was always there. It was a late addition due to the fact that at the time it was said Wonder Woman had no good villains.

Meanwhile Greek characters almost never ever interact with anyone else in DC at all, or they have their own versions that look and appear totally different like in Captain Marvel and Aquaman.

Was anyone else like me growing up and didn't get the hate for Aquaman? I had even seen some of the Superfriends show too.

Then I felt validated as fuck when the Geoff Johns run and the movies dropped.

>>149689400
I remember Aquaman from the early 90s after he lost his hand. Shit got DARK under Peter David.

>>149689195
>Wonder Woman having greek myth characters as villains goes back to the late 90s at best.
me when I go on the internet and tell fucking lies. Circe has been a Wonder Woman villain since NINETEEN FORTY NINE you retard. Thor wasn't even created until 1962 for the record...

For me, even Barbara is bigger

>>149689542
she didn't appear in a wonder Woman comic again until 1988

>>149686601 (OP)
OUTRAGEOUS

>>149689837
1983*

>>149688035
why are Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman/Flash/Green Lantern the core five anyway? why are Martian Manhunter and Aquaman replaceable but the other five are the "core" members?

>>149686601 (OP)
what I find crazy is how the big 3 in the Marvel universe was always Iron Man, Thor and Captain America despite the fact that irl their 3 most popular heroes were Spiderman, Wolverine and the Hulk

>>149688831
Do people really not know who Cheetah or Giganta are? That rings fake to me
And I guess Dr Psycho got a popularity boost from the Harley tv show, though that dilutes the association a bit too

>>149689195
>Wonder Woman having greek myth characters as villains goes back to the late 90s at best.
During the golden age, her main villain was Ares/Mars

The Four Pillars of DC if they weren't cowards.

>>149688969
They took this from you

>>149689447
I've only read a bit of it, sadly. But it is crazy how wildly different Aquaman was back then. Like, he literally swam with the dolphins and wanted to fuck one. And he had Kako, his Inuit lover, and their son Koryak, that no one fucking remembers nowadays as well.

>>149689990
I'd be ok with this honestly.

>>149689990
But people like Constantine more

>>149688969
I wish DC made a bigger attempt for Circe to be known on the same level as other heroes' arch-nemeses.

>>149690081
Everyone made fun of him but early 90s Aquaman was not somebody to fuck with.

>>149688831
Wonder Woman was one of only three superheroes who managed to continue having a dedicated ongoing comic book continue publication throughout the post WW2 die off of superhero popularity.

The other two, Batman and Superman.
No other ones survived the late 40s and 50s without being cancelled.

>>149690149
looks like a mix of the 90's extreme craze and a legit attempt to fix the bad rep that he got from the Super Friends cartoon

>>149690149
I loved Johns' nu52 stuff but I do like it when Aquaman has a rougher side and will fuck you up if you cross any lines with him.

Best Aquaman characterization is striking a nice balance between being a traditional hero and being a bit of an anti-hero as well imo.

>>149688969
Even outside of the Greek mythology, Wonder Woman has many great villains. Dr. Psycho, Silver Swan, Cheetah.
>Green Arrow
I think once you reach a character that minor they don't need their own dedicated antagonists as much.

>>149690149
This feels a bit like overcorrection for the horrible reputation he got from the Super Friends.

>>149689891
World finest (Batman & Superman) + comic cavalcade (Flash, Green Lantern & Wonder Woman).
She ended up lost when moved "up".

>>149689195
>Wonder Woman having greek myth characters as villains goes back to the late 90s at best.
Wonder Woman's main villain was Ares, that started in the 19-fucking-40s decades before Thor was even a superhero.

>>149690207
I'm personally a fan of his Brave and the Bold portrayal. He should be bombastic and heroic, but actually be able to throw the fuck down unlike his 60's Super Friends version. They really didn't know what to do with him besides have him talk to fish, and I don't know how you fuck that up that bad.

>>149689891
I think Aquaman was kicked off the regular iconic roster due to being seen as lame. Also given his powers were themed around water, and the Justice League usually fights more space threats, there was an issue there.

Martian Manhunter has never been a big character on his own, he more or less just exists as a Justice League member

>>149690264
>They really didn't know what to do with him besides have him talk to fish, and I don't know how you fuck that up that bad.
I think the issue is, that with modern technology, more knowledge about the oceans, and movies like Titanic, the Little Mermaid, The Abyss, etc., it's easy to see how cool an underwater superhero can be now. But back in the 70's, it was harder to work that into storylines. Also, I think modern versions emphasize that he's also fairly strong outside of water too.

>>149690316
Even before, we had a lot of pulp sea tales, Aquaman kind of was "lost".

>>149690127
>circe will never leg lock your neck

>>149686601 (OP)
aquaman comics benefit from almost always being better than the other 3 and not having like 4 ongoings at the same time

>>149690127
>reverse flash instead of sinestro
bleh
the rise in thawne's popularity is funny and all, but sinestro is still more iconic imo (and actually has a dcau design - closest thawne has is a reference in an episode and some tie-in comics that barely count)

>>149690694
Here's another one with both.

I was a kid in the 80s and I remember him being a big name still. It was Batman, Sups, WW, Aquaman. Flash was barely mentioned and not many people even thought of the lanterns.
I also remember they were more mentioned than Marvel characters except Spiderman.

>>149686601 (OP)
But yea for Black Manta, he’s a great villain.

>>149690127
>>149690694
>>149690772
i think comics need a huge arch-nemesis reduction, every arc is either joker and luthor again or some kind of character specific event

>>149688969
>she has like literally all of greek mythology in her rogues gallery.
Theoretically, so could Aquaman (the trident and Atlantis and all), in fact, Aquaman feels more congruent to the Greek myth world as opposed to WW, who has weird concepts such as the stars costume and the invisible jet

>>149690149
Lol no. 90's Aquaman was a huge JOBBER that got beat up by everyone. Peter David gave him goofier powers and a new schizo rape origin.

>>149689010
>popular TikTok Hamilton knockoff
I mean, she only appears for like three songs. Poseidon is the bigger bad in that.

>>149691405
>Poseidon is the bigger bad in that.
Who then gets beat up by Odysseus using a windbag jet pack at the end. Poseidon gets it really bad in modern media

>>149688969
>idk how people even say wonder woman has no villains when she has like literally all of greek mythology in her rogues gallery.
Because the writers are midwit who know nothing about mythology, which means they use about five characters at most.

>>149691364
Greek mythology had a lot of weird stuff in it like automatons, and Wonder Woman's color scheme is accidentally accurate.

>>149689010
>popular TikTok Hamilton knockoff>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hamilton
The only good Hamilton songs are the ones without "rapping" other than that it's NYCfag (((federalist))) propaganda. I'll take "the Odyssey but shonenshit" over that any day.

>>149689990
Zatanna comics suck though.

>>149689002
Watched Hercules?

>>149686601 (OP)
His movie made a billion dollars
I liked the second one too but its not as good as the first
People always liked Aquaman

>>149691974
>This is the story of a time long ago, a time of myth and legend. When the ancient gods were petty and cruel, and plagued mankind with suffering, only one man dared to challenge their power -- Hercules! Hercules possessed a strength the world had never seen, a strength surpassed only by the power of his heart. He journeyed the Earth, battling the minions of his wicked stepmother Hera, the all-powerful queen of the gods. But wherever there was evil, wherever an innocent would suffer, there would be -- Hercules!

>>149690127
>>149690772
Thawne never seemed like much of a team player kind of guy. It usually made more sense when Cold was the Flash villain hanging with the supervillain get togethers. Even more so with Manta, he seems way too loose canon to hang with villains and help in any way.

Sinestro at least is total bros with Black Adam. There are not many villains who actually like each other like that.

>>149692027
>You never watched this very niche unknown show from 1993?!?!

Jesus christ anon, not everyone is in the late 40s.

>>149692027
No I have not heard of this before. I kind of doubt many have at this point since it many decades old.

And I'm sure you want to use the excuse that anyone who did not grow up on mid 90s era tv must be younger than 18.

>>149692063
I was joking around. The other anon probably meant the Disney movie. Also niche, unknown? Guess you don't like Sam Raimi.

>>149690127
She was the leader of the magic villain faction opposite to wonder woman in DCUO, although she was dressed like slave leia for some reason

>>149691974
Bless my soul!

>>149692008
Aquaman has grossed more than any other DC movie, right?
not counting inflation

>>149691405
Still, her design is fucking banging. I would goon my brains out if this was the official DC circe

>>149688289
Overall, Spiderman, Superman, and Batman are the top three; no one else comes close. After that, it's impossible to say between Wolverine, Hulk, Flash, and Wonder Woman.
Green Lantern never seemed particularly popular to me among people who don't read comics, maybe on the same level as Iron Man.

>>149689973
>Cheetah
For some reason, directors seem to hate her. In all the animated movies and some comics, she's treated as a simple catwoman who is knocked out by Catwoman, killed by Red Hood and normal soldiers. In Apokolips War, she was killed by bullets. kek

>>149691974
are you trolling or just an underaged gen alpha fag

According to the intro in the 80-year anniversary collection, he was the only character to get published consistently all the way up to the 70's other than the Trinity, and unlike them he didn't even have his own comic.
Everyone remembers Super Friends, but there was also the Superman/Aquaman Hour of Adventure. But even in the year of our lord 2015 we still don't have a Wonder Woman cartoon show.

>>149692278
Probably
They should have just given the entire franchise to James Wan. He has a solid track record and made a lot of money for WB with his conjuring flicks

>>149692278
It, the Joker, Dark Knight, DKR all made over a billion with Aquaman on top. The Nolan movies made more domestically. Aquaman made nearly $300 million from China alone. Someone in the Party must like him.

>>149692027
More of a Xena guy myself.

How do you defend yourself from this?

>>149692624
same way magneto does, wear a tin foil hat

>>149689926
It's because they sold the rights of Spider-Man and Wolverine to Sony and Fox, so they wanted to replace them.

>>149686601 (OP)
there are only 2 characters with a BILLION movie there

>>149686601 (OP)
I bet Dr. Manhattan and Rorschach are more popular than Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

His cartoon was on a lot in the mid 80s, he was on tv more than the Trinity

>>149686601 (OP)
I think he got a push in the 70s because his color scheme popped. It’s weird that there was an Aquaman Mego figure but no Green Lantern or Flash, and that’s as good an explanation for it as any.

>>149692391
I've heard that in China, they just really love underwater settings.

>>149695364
They also went out of there way to make their own underwater fantasy film franchise to compete with Avatar and then cancel it

>>149695531
did they air? what was it called?

>>149695584
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empires_of_the_Deep

>>149695364
Yes, it is noticeable in some of their games

>>149692624
When was the last time it was used on humans/non-fish beings? It seems like the kind of power you use a couple of times to make it look cool and then never use again.

>>149695608
We missed out on kino

>>149692366
2 second of Ares in the background
And when does Circe show up?

>>149686601 (OP)
Well if not Aquaman, then WHOM??

>>149696929
Captain Marvel

>>149698084
>Captain "Keeps getting rebooted and/or replaced" Marvel
Yeah no, he can't even keep his own name.

There were only five DC characters who were published continuously since 1942: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Green Arrow (the last two as backups or anthology characters only).

It's never been about sales. It's always been about longevity. Green Arrow and Aquaman were B-listers through the 40s and 50s. Wonder Woman was the worst selling title at DC for most of the 60s and was only continued because if DC cancelled it, the copyright would revert back to the Marston estate. Even Batman was on the brink of cancellation in 1963.

>>149686601 (OP)
What are you talking about? Aquaman, like any long running character, has it ups and down.

>>149699452
I don't hate Aquaman btw.

>>149696172
are you going to pretend Hades isn't the villain of disney's hercules, or that Hades hasn't been a Wonder Woman villain since 1946

>>149699452
The only real problem with Aquaman is the fact that he likes to hang out with people who vastly outshine him and make him look bad by comparison.

It's the same problem as Hawkman when you stick him in the JLA, he brings nothing to the table that is not already covered, and done better by at least three other characters. Aquaman is great in adventures in his setting, in a fantasy ocean with magical characters. He's not so great when hanging with the JLA and fighting villains in space. Then all of a sudden the guy who is not as strong or tough as Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter, has extremely limited psychic powers, cannot fly, does not have the cool gadgets or vehicles, looks like a loser when placed in the same book.

>>149688969
>idk how people even say wonder woman has no villains when she has like literally all of greek mythology in her rogues gallery
Because those disneyfied versions of the greek gods do not make for compelling villains.