Thread 149705079

Josh Nizzi is back and doing the designs. The Film is in the concept stage. Characters names are labeled.

The Character labeled “Ratchet’ is a green Range Rover

The Character labeled “Arcee” is a pink 55 Chevy.

The Character labeled “Prowl’ is a Plymouth Superbird, Not a Police car.

The Character labeled “Cliffjumper” is a red volkswagen

The Character “Optimus Prime” labeled turns into a freightliner Firetruck

Whatever, is it a reboot?

>>149705101
Arcee and Ratchet are both alive so it looks that way.

Just bring back the Bumblebee director...

>>149705079 (OP)
CLIFFJUMPER BROS WE ARE BACK
Sounds like its set in early 70s to early 80s
Willing to bet arcee will be a lowrider\hot rod
One good thing from earthspark I guess (Soundwave just took megatrons idw bomber look)
Ratchet still makes sense in 70s since its when og range rover was made,prime will be either made up model or Im wrong and hes a 2010s era truck,prowl could be in deep cover to play on superbird being early 70s car,they could make him into a starsky&hutch style cop
I hope cliffjumper is a vw made into a buggy or a meyers manx buggy
Something similar with bee in point of origin but distinct
Pic rel might be arcee,might also be a cabrio but they seem to make high performance\fast over last few movies

>>149705265
I heard Prowl is gonna be a cowboy style robot.

Dudebros are you ready to dustoff your barbwire tattoos & Mountain Dew?

>>149705363
Hell yeah brother.

>finally find critical success by walking away from Bayformers
>make the same exact mistakes that led to The Last Knight instead of starting fresh
>go back to Bayslop anyway but it's also a reboot
Why is Paramount so retarded?

I love that his first movie is more or less just an Iraq War recruitment film.

>>149705557
Watch this one be the same for whatever crap goes down on the Middle East in the coming months.

>>149705567
>Autobots, transform and die for Israel!

>>149705510
Pal,shut the fuck up and enjoy john goodman bot with dual shotguns,fuck the critics this doesnt need to be schindlers list
I want to sit down in cinema and see megatron say racial slurs and then turn into a jet and hit twin towers
Entertain me and make cool toys so I might consider buying one or two
And remember that bay while he had his heart in it made transformers rocket into its second golden era after g1 (2001 and animes follow closely with bw behind)

>>149705607
>"Before time began, there was the Māḡēn Dāvīḏ"

>>149705607
Decepticons,aim starscream at tel aviv and launch him
Pan down to a icbm with starscream tied to it

>>149705214
I agree. We need another Transformers movie where the Transformers are barely in it and 90% of the runtime is Hailee Steinfeld crying. Heckin’ kino!

>>149705632
John Goodman bot was a fucking awful design though. My main issue with Bayformers shit is that the designs ended up being two awful extremes: either incoherent masses of scrap metal and greebles or uncanny human looking things which the later films turned into. They were awful fucking toys too because they weren't actually designed with the idea in mind that they could turn into vehicles. That is what was great about Bumblebee, you could actually see how he turned into a car and vice versa, it wasn't just an incoherent jumble of CGI bits gyrating that magically turned into a robot.

>>149705676
Compared to Bayslop where it's 95% jacking off the military, Shia Laboof screaming, and cringe "comedy"? And the other 5% is slow mo explosions and robots pissing on dudes?

OH BOY! WELCOME BACK!
>scenes that go on for too long
>racist scenes out of nowhere
>needless scenes of girls showing off
>non existent colors for the robots, especially the Decepticons
>Optimus Lips
>More Optimus character derailment
>the exact same 3 act structure from the previous Bay films
>and of course... way too many... EXPLOSIONS!!!!!!

Great more trash rolling down a hill fight scenes.

Transformers One Piece of Shot lost btw

>>149705510

They want another movie to crack a billion. Despite Bay's stuff no longer doing so.

>>149705510
all of their critical successes never made close to the amount of money Bayformers made. Even the shittiest of the Bayformers movies outgrossed Bumblebee. You can't say Bay tainted the brand, because Bayformers kept making money after Revenge of the Fallen.

>>149705761
But I just dont care about girl and her robot when It was done before In a cooler movie
When you say bumbleebee is what I want from transformers you forget that cybertron scene was few minutes long

>>149705911
Also, this is the perfect time to tap into that nostalgia.
Bay stuff already apparently does well in merch stuff.

>>149705890
Shut up boco
Chinese love transformers and so do people who spewed racial slurs in cod 4 multiplayer
Might get to a billy and If it doesnt who cares

Ya more war criminal Optimus... Just what I wanted...

>>149705079 (OP)
>The Character labeled “Arcee” is a pink 55 Chevy.
>The Character labeled “Prowl’ is a Plymouth Superbird, Not a Police car.

using the Plymouth Superbird for Prowl but not using the Panthermobile for Arcee in the same movie is wrong

there's so many better looking old concept cars too, the AMC AMX/3, the Mercedes C111, even the 1964 Plymouth Roadrunner (that the Superbird is a related development of)

shit tho if this movie is going to be a full-on sports car cop car thing I'm there for it, Mad Max meets Transformers

>>149705960

Hollywood doesn't give a fuck what China wants anymore.

>>149705927
It was the same ratio of actual robot shit in Bay movies, the difference was that the human shit wasn't actively annoying (it could of used more robot shit but it's always been like that) and the scenes with the robots was actually coherent and easy to follow.

>>149705974
Dude,how do make panthermobile look as a disguise. ?

>>149705991
Tell me you didnt love seeing that little twerp getting flung thru air in revenge of the fallen or simmons and sams roommate bantering
Fuck simmons was the best human part after megans melons in those movies

>>149705970
YAY MORE WAR CRIME PRIME JUST WHAT I WANTED !

Angry Joe is in the thread, Only a hylic would like Revenge of the Fallen.

>>149705974
>>149706000
I think it's a good look for her.

>>149705970
>>149706043
There’s literally no such thing as war “crimes”

>>149705974
Anon superbird and charger daytona were two approaches by brother companies to see which one can make a better race car under same directives
Before 80s with chryslers k car all brands under chrysler gm and ford platforms
You can assemble a chrysler franken car with some know how mechanics and a 3d printer
64 road runner doesnt have much to do with road runner proper (plymouth satelite 2 door coupe with better options,same as chevy bel air from 55 was highest trim of 55 chevrolet 150)

>Optimus is gonna look like this.

Kino.

>>149705911
It was literally Bay's last film which caused the film franchise to derail. AoE made bank, but it was that point that audiences said "ok I don't want more of this"

>>149706028
Yeah, I totally laughed at the scrotum part so funny

>>149706109
Stealing paintings that were agreed as non stealable by all parties involved in treaties and war
But yeah prime was justified in what he did
If he raped the fallen whole series would be over after rotf

>>149706163
One man betrayed by his country...
And implication that he was saying that for whole ride in the ghettobot was funny

>>149706028
>megans melons
I'm not attracted to blow-up dolls that gets passed around like a game of hot potato, no

>>149705510
>>149705911
Bumblebee was never going to work. Yes, IDW has fuhoshits and gay fans, it's not enough. The majority of the brands fanbase is still male, and they don't want E.T. with girl problems

>>149706182
Don't like Bayverse but tbf Simmons was like the one consistant good thing.

>>149705079 (OP)
>Bayformers

I can't even work up the nerve to give a shit at this point.

>>149706199

The first five minutes were better than any other TF film besides One.

>>149706182
I'm a fan of Simmons as an actor but he was not good in those movies. He was just hamming up a really shitty script.

>>149706206
Please take this gay wendigo pretending to be the leader of the decepticons behind the shed and blast his head off
They made my guy from MEGATRON into megabitch

>>149706209
And then you still have over an hour of the movie to sit thru...
Atleast triplechangers were cool (shatter wouldve been perfect alt mode for cliff)

>>149706235
Don't pretend that didn't apply to literally EVERY Transformer by the end of the comic.

I really get the impression it was being written by people who had numerous bones to pick with the source material.

>>149706306
Oh it did but Megs suffered the most
Under all those speeches optimus was still a guy who could make few mistakes
Megatron would never hang out in some guardians of the galaxy ship
Idws characterisation hot rod and making cyclonus into some weird elderly gay dude with a childish bf is in top 5 of worst idw ideas to me
Arcee was furman being an autist and not knowing what floodgates would open few years later
Grimlock being retarded and everyone being a snarky asshole was shit too
Shockwave being time travel giga mastermind hitler was funny
Ocs they made were all shit (flying geisha chick was hasbros idea)
Oh and the "Poor abused starscream" shit was annoying as fuck,tumblrbait
I have hours of this
Lets hope that skybound doesnt dip after dwj leaves
For all the flaws like weird timeline and astrotrain being made into shavings its amazingly good

>>149705988
isn't it the other way around. that china doesn't give a shit about Hollywood

>>149706556

Feeling's mutual both ways, it seems.

About fucking time too.

>>149705793
You could've just said you're a fag and saved a lot of time typing.

>>149706209
>The first five minutes were better than any other TF film besides One.
No, and fuck "One", Magnetotron is always garbage. Megatron isn't Malcom X, he's Hitler

And yeah Bumblebee had a couple good action scenes, that doesn't make up for the rest of it.

>>149706463
Slide was a retarded cunt in IDW.

>>149706000
Daniel drives her around giving people this look

no-one suspects anything out of the ordinary

>>149706125
alright carboy calm down

>>149706969
Nice doubles
It seems that idwtards couldnt make decent characters out of post 85 characters,they butchered magnus as far as Im concerned and the later additions like those minibots that combined were total shit but that was at the end and peak of retardation
Thundercracker being a writer was mid as hell and I liked skywaro working with joes as a concept atleast

>>149705510
>>finally find critical success by walking away from Bayformers
things that never happened.

>>149707030

Bumblebee and One are the only TF movies with Fresh ratings on RT. Coincidence? I doubt it.

>>149707066
>Gays,trannies and boco use rotten tomatoes
Yeah no its a pattern

>>149707153

Look man, I say this as a die hard Transformers fan, but the Bay movies are not good. So bad its good, at best. They only got actually good when he left.

>>149707153
Well-received while barely breaking even, as opposed to critically panned and also flopping. I wonder why people aren’t fond of Bay’s return.

>>149707203
I dont care
Blockbusters are supposed to entertain
And rotf is entertaining
I only wish bay used some nu metal or mid 00s rock along with linkin park

>>149707253
Most people see a movie tweet about it and go on with their day
Its various degrees of autist that go to rotten tomatoes write wiki articles and bitch that this years megatron got shins in the wrong color
When the movie is out its gonna be fun and enjoyable or not
And I would argue that one got bigger numbers due to hitting demographics of tf autist adult with a kid and animation lovers
BB was a breath of fresh after last knight even tho I like nitro zeuses movie it was shitty overall

A movie that was about the Transformers instead of the goddamn humans. It was a nice movie. And it had nice toys in the form of blokees. Screen accurate and articulated. We'll never have it as good as this ever again. Horrible trailer though, and you just know that whoever was in charge of it failed upwards.

>>149707335
BB is literally just a retell of the first act of the first film, with a girl.
All it's fans are retarded.

>>149707203
Bumblebee wasn't good, it's E.T with an emo chick mad at her parents and a black boyfriend

>>149707447
The G1 movie is better

>>149705079 (OP)
Michael Bay is wasting his time with these Transformer films
just like James Cameron making those blue cat flicks
MAKE SOMETHING ELSE

>>149707855
He DID make something else. Nobody went to see it.

>>149707822
And that's STILL better that Bayformer shit. That's how low the bar is.

>>149707844
No shit it's been downhill since then but this came the closest to capturing that magic

>>149707855
Bro barely had a career since he left Transformers, he had to resort to fucking Skibidi Toilet to make ends meet.

>>149707914

Mmm...Eiza...

>>149707958
I disagree, Bayformers is slopkino as per Bay but BB makes all the same mistakes and any merrits are equaled by pros and cons

>BB has cool G1 fan service and better Deceptions
>Bayformers doesn't have teen girl drama, shitty indie rock, cute bullshit that's off brand, and awkward borderline romance between bee and emo girl

>>149708200
>but BB makes all the same mistakes
The only mistake is shares with Bayformers is too much human screentime, that's about it. Bumblebee has vastly more personality than he did before and the Decepticons actually feel like Decepticons instead of trash metal slobbering monsters.

>Bayformers doesn't have teen girl drama
It has teen boy drama and a bitch that looks like plastic and can't act
>shitty indie rock
improvement over Linkin Park
>cute bullshit that's off brand
better than the constant cringe humor
>and awkward borderline romance between bee and emo girl
less gay than Shia wanting to fuck Bumblebee lol

>>149708003
Skibidi toilet will be the new birth of a nation in terms of importance

>>149708275
A lot of words to say you enjoy sex with men

>>149708275
That's all subjective, but objectively, Transformers is for boys not girls, and it's a rock/metal franchise not emo

I'm not a giant Bay fan but to me Bumblebee is the same wrong shit in a even more off brand flavor, and the fan service that lasts about five minutes total doesn't change that

Are people seriously calling Bumblebee's soundtrack, which was nothing but songs from the 80s, "indie rock"?

>>149708410
Linkin Park is fag metal my dude

>>149708414
The Smiths is basically proto indie rock, ironic since they dress the jailbait in a Motorhead shirt but she's not a metal girl

>>149708447

Yeah, but "Girlfriend in a Coma" is funny, so its okay.

Plus it has Sammy Hagar's "I Can't Drive 55" so that makes it good by default.

>>149708410
Eh, Bumblebee is far from a perfect Transformers movie but what it got right was a huge improvement over the Bayshit. The actual robot designs was near perfect, they actually looked like something that could feasibly be a toy. What action there was did a great job, it wasn't schizophrenic with a bunch of shitty explosions peppered everywhere that's just how a hack compensates for poor composition. The antagonists actually felt threatening and felt like Decepticons. The human element while annoying in how prevalent it was ended up being the least obnoxious out of all the movies which is an improvement. If the humans suck in EVERY movie (and they fucking do, goddamn they suck) I'm choosing the option that annoys me the least and Bumblebee was by far the most inoffensive.

>>149708410
Linkin park was whiny bitch music, I don’t care how much you miss being a sixth grader in 2007. We were laughing about Shia being a weak, unmasculine protagonist in 2007.

>>149708691
I don't like Linkin Park. But, if it's a normie mass appeal take on TF, it's about what I expect for a choice of "hard rock". Plus the ost has good Disturbed, Him, and Smashing Pumpkins songs..... it's 00s, whatever. I'm a 70s-90s guy musically
>>149708567
I'll say this much, yes Bumblebee was filmed better and more traditionally "well written" but I don't really care, I'm a TF nerd not a film nerd, I want the brand a specific way. I love the 86 movie and it's not well written either, it's just badass

>>149708691
Exactly. I don't get how someone can complain about "emo music" then in the same breath unironically call fucking Linkin Park "metal" because that shit was always gay as fuck and sounded like ass

>>149708827
>I love the 86 movie and it's not well written either, it's just badass
The fuck you mean? Everyone loves the 86 movie because it's such a big step up from the show on all fronts including the writing.

>but I don't really care, I'm a TF nerd not a film nerd
So am I and Bumblebee doesn't take a giant shit on the franchise like Bayformers does for some mid disaster porn, shitty Transformer designs, and American military wanking. If both movies have a lot of the same flaws I'm choosing the one that annoys me the least and does the parts I like best which is the Transformers aspect.

>>149708832
Let's get one thing straight, I don't like Linkin Park, but they're MORE close to the mark than the fucking Smiths

>>149708929
The 86 movie is just a more testosterone driven Star Wars combined with Heavy Metal, it's amazing but not exactly a film snobs dream

And fair enough, Bumblebee I think is objectively as good or as bad as Bayformers, but it does annoy me more by being for girls and being cute. And also Transformers is American, deal with it brah

>>149705265
>Willing to bet arcee will be a lowrider\hot rod
Do you think Arcee will twerk using her hydraulics?

>>149707844
It was part of my childhood and I respectfully disagree.Idgaf about the Witwickies and most of the new cast.

>>149708995
>it's amazing but not exactly a film snobs dream
It's solidly written, it gets the job done and doesn't have any major retarded shit going on. I'm completely fine with something that's pure spectacle but don't pair it with actively stupid writing. That's when you get shit like Bayformers. I mean fuck, I love a simple but solid movie but that shit goes out of its way to be needlessly convoluted and obnoxious. Bumblebee is again, far from a perfect movie but it took Keep It Simple Stupid to heart and was a much better viewing experience for it.

>>149709098
>>149709098
A lot of old heads disliked the movie. I'm a 90s kid, I watched it on VHS at the very same time I was watching reruns of S1 and 2 as rentals or on TV during "G2" so I had no more attachments to the old guys than their replacements. I also was always a Deception stan from day 1, so I didn't really care about the dead Autobots and loved Galvatron and Soundwave

>>149709138
Bayformers would be a lot better with a different actor or at least different performance from Shia, Decepticons being less monster like, less busy designs, and less shakey camera

>>149709246
The writing is also pretty dogshit. The first three movies are basically the same general story of "actually Transformers were secretly on Earth for years and we have to get the magic MacGuffin that the brought" bullshit. The first movie is *fine* I suppose but after that it gets significantly more stupid and convoluted.

>>149709021
You'll be lucky if Bay shits out a design for her that looks even half as slightly appealing as Quintessa, and even that's a stretch.

>>149706109
how's that working out for you, Champ Ferguson

>>149707914
AMBUNCE???

>>149707855
Michael Bay is 60, if you think he's still working because he's hot and fresh you need to learn what a mortgage is

This comic came out 17 days after Transformers 2007 premiered and it's become incredibly specific to this website today.
Every day I come here I'm reminded that all the stuff we trashed back then is now stuff someone who was a kid back then considered hype

>>149709299
Yeah, but I mainly like best 1 and 3. With 3, I am a sucker for conspiracy shit so I like the plot, Shockwaves part was cut so he's wasted but Laserbeak and Soundwave actually shine, I love creepy hitman Lasorbeak and Soundwave is used well as a spymaster. Sentinel bitching out Megatron is the worst part though I do like he at least got angry enough to fuck him up before Prime makes him look like a bitch again

>>149709246
>so I had no more attachments to the old guys than their replacements
Don't get me wrong. I had about as much attachment to the old cast as you did. Most of the old autobots had the same personality anyway.
The movie had a fire soundtrack, high stakes and an interesting and terrifying villain. But I didn't care for the humans, the comic relief dinobots, the comic relief junkions, robot with no personality (Springer), rookiebot (Hot Rod), robot who talks melodicaly (Wheelie), robot who talks fast (Blurr), robots who look all the same (Sweeps and Sharkticons) or how the events were unfolding.

Transformers One's cast had more interesting personalities and interactions. Events were unfolding in a more interesting manner as well, even though they were lower stakes. Basically the only problem with the movie was Bumblebee being annoying at times. The soundtrack wasn't as iconic but it was an otherwise much more solid and entertaining movie.

>>149709862
There's an element of truth but also bullshit.

A. yes, some kid is enjoying shit and shouldn't be robbed of that joy by angry nerds, but this is an 18 and up website for adults, and adult nerd fan spaces have existed as long as the internet.

B. no, there is such a thing as objectivity. i'm nostalgic for Street Sharks, I know it sucks. Batman TAS doesn't suck. Beast Wars doesn't suck, etc, and all eras are defined by their trends. They're not all equal, I was born in 1989, the 00s is "my coming of age music", I "should" be most nostaglic about that but beyond thinking basic bitch radio pop was way better because today it's too eh....."urban influenced" and sexual for the target demo, I generally am way fonder of 70s-90s music, I was alive in the 90s but too young to be part of subcultures or care that much about music, the 00s is my era and I dislike most 00s music trends at least compared to my preferred eras

That's called having taste and using your head, not just "going with the flow" bases on what you think you need to be as some representative of your own generation

One thing I liked about One was Orion's chest. It resembles an eye. As the movie progresses, he learns more of the truth. His chest window becomes bigger. The eye opens, reflecting the enlightenment. In the end the "eye" is open and has the Matrix of Leadership acting as the iris.

>>149705079 (OP)
this shit sounds like Skybound

>>149706901
Giving a pure evil villain a revultionary angle aint anything new, its clearly the most popular angle for megatron, and it makes enough sense.

i have a brain the size of a pea and i do not like bayformers because it is Ugly and Greybrown and Too Complicated Visually

i do not like the designs and how dire everything is. likewise i do not enjoy skybound too much because it is also very dire and dark, but at least it has color.

i do not particularly enjoy tfp for this same reason, even though starscream is very cunty and wonderful.

>>149711012
Personally I'm more of an Animated guy myself

>>149710737
Nah, roster almost perfectly lines up except for Prowl, that should be Jazz's place

>>149705793
Don't forget a character who carries around a card about Romeo and Juliet laws to justify him dating an underage girl. That was very important to include in a Transformers movie.

>>149711029
tfa is my personal favorite. it feels so lively and fun...i, personally, like it when optimus is just a good guy trying his best to keep his coworkers alive and happy. Famous and Battle-worn God's Special Soldier is fine sometimes, but i think it's cool when he's literally Just Some Guy. i like how different it feels from other continuities, cybertron and its conflict especially feels...more ambiguous in the third season, less like a war of attrition and endless angst and strife and more like...almost like earth is just a territory in the middle of a larger-scale political struggle. a little territory on a crusader kings 2 map

it seems to get shafted in terms of toys though

>>149705960
This isn't the fucking 2010s anymore you inbred jackoff. China, and by extension the rest of the world, isn't going to give a shit about whatever the US pumps out now, especially when there's been so much more competition since the last Bayformer film.

>set up some kind of score with breakdown and starscream for saving his ass in season 1
>screw that let's kill him at the start of season 2 before we develop that further lol
woooooooow

>>149705510
>Critical success
Rotten Tomatoes scores don’t pay bills, Anon.
Josh Cooley is still around, and will apparently direct another Transformers film if this upcoming one does well.
They’re certainly less retarded than Warner Bros at the least.

>>149711477
Yeah but a critical success paired with a solid hit on a smaller budget is always a good thing. It's just that they immediately wasted all that goodwill and franchise fatigue by making the same exact mistakes they always make.

>>149710764
>its clearly the most popular angle for megatron,
It's not? Only IDW fans like it, and their comic got cancelled, Earthspark got cancelled that also used that angle, and One flopped. The IDW version is clearly, not popular, writers just keep pushing it because they're cunts

>>149711496
Earthspark isn't cancelled though, even though it should be.

>>149710133
Someone should remake this but with IDW megatron being decapitated

>>149711536
Most people wouldn't recognize it specifically as IDW Megatron.

>>149711572
they dont matter to me. only my hate for idw megatron does.

>>149711477
Is that true? Source?

>>149711572
Personally I don't mind the idea of a Megatron that's more nuanced than your usual saturday morning cartoon show, but IDW really didn't handle it well.

Prime Megatron is close but no cigar since he was implied to always be a merciless asshole by nature.

>>149711716
This is such nonsense my guy. What is more nuanced about Malcom X than Hitler? You just find one mentality comfortable to see in media and not the other

>>149710764
>>149710956
megatron inherited the golden era of cybertron after decepticons freed their race, only to fuck it all up.
Giving him a tragic angle makes him a fucking dumbass that can't control his anger. Decepticons biggest weapon has always been manipulation, "being deceptive" hence the name.

>>149711824
And that's interesting enough, to me. Megatron doesn't care about Cybertron truly, though he might lament about it, he believes in conquest.

Cybertrons fucked? I bid thee well my home......oh well, still mine, let's go get another one. The idea of a conqueror villain makes certain types uncomfortable, for obvious reasons.
>muh nazis
>muh colonizers
They think this shit is evil, but can't even stand to see it being presented by a villainous character. You don't need to "agree" with the fucking badguy, like jesus

>>149711699
Cooley’s apparently eyed to direct his own Live Action Transformers movie.
So not a Transformers One sequel, but I imagine it’ll be a spiritual successor in some capacity.
The Monkey’s Paw is that Paramount still wants that fucking GI-Joe crossover.

>>149710764
I'm thinking that why not treat the revolution as akin to the French Revolution where good intentions go to Hell and their Napoleon equivalent is Megatron. It even gives you some nuance while showing the conflict between autocracy and more egalitarian states where Megatron is all for tyranny as a means of keeping the peace and maintaining reforms while the Autobots feel that as much as they appreciate him cracking down on bullshit, he's gone and made himself a new dictator to replace the old one.

>>149712394
Also the fact that regardless of what Megatron preached, most of the Decepticons were just using it as an excuse to incite anarchy and be murderous assholes just because they could.

Needlenose deserved no sympathy, especially not because of Horri-Bull who got what he deserved.

>>149705079 (OP)
As long as he wants to genuinely do it and make it like Transformers 2007 or Dark of the Moon and I'll be happy.

>>149712413
Didn't IDW reinvent Needlenose as a fashion designer. Literally what does fashion matter to TF?