Thread 149727353

Also in this thread:
>Superior Avengers #5
>Red Hulk #7

Bump if you're reading.

>>149727386
wait thats it thats the big smoking gun, that doom might have been able to prevent the blood hunt?

>>149727353 (OP)
>the event is still going
Was Dark Reign this bad as well?

>>149727353 (OP)
Oh god is this shit still going.

>>149727449
Eh still not as bad as the time he nuked a universe because that doom was friends with reed.

>>149727380
Oh my god, Doom did you really just fall for the clucking chicken sounds?

>>149727467
>>149727463
Don't you just love when the villain suddenly becomes stupid out of nowhere with a weakness revealed one minute before. Isn't it great when it happens to doom and waller last year

>>149727408
>Make a perfectly valid point about the status quo and how the FF don't ever do SHIT with their inventions
>Absolutely impossible to defend
>Reed's cooked well done

>>149727449
>cartoonishly evil thing sweeps it all under the rug

WHY CAN'T WRITERS REALIZE THAT 616 TECHNOLOGY =/= OUR TECHNOLOGY
FUCK

>>149727514
Doom doesn't do anything with his k ventions either thoughever

>>149727531
>Gee Vic, how come your mom lets you have two eyes of Agamotto?

>>149727486
doom does it all the time, his pride is ultimately his downfall more often than not

>>149727546
Yeah but he's not a hero.

>>149727475
And Valeria will still forgive him.

>>149727486
He did the exact same thing at the end of Hickman's Secret Wars. Doom admitted to Reed that Reed would've solved the incursions if he had access to the information and power that Doom did. And Molecule Man heard him and took away Doom's power and let the Richards use it to recreate the multiverse.

>>149727408
In a meta sense this feels like a bit of a cop out that's more the result of superhero stories running off the same continuity for too long even if it's technically true in universe. I guess it's fine for plot convenience for this event but I get tired of these gotcha arguments. Still it's basically guaranteed engagement bait in the same way people will constantly post "why doesn't Batman donate to charity instead of beating up the mentally ill" or "why doesn't Superman stop every crime from happening" threads and still get a bunch of replies. Maybe this will be some new reader's first encounter with this kind of plot line.

>>149727449
Finally the reveal to undermine the whole enterprise. Although expected it feels a bit weak to me.

And that's it. If you liked these, support your LCS or whatever.

>>149727567
>doom does it all the time, his pride is ultimately his downfall more often than not

Sure but I feel like usually the solution is a bit more involved than "C'mon bok bok bok"

>>149727408
Yeah this is an epic pwn but it just doesn't work. Big sweeping changes like this are just one of those things you quietly ignore to make the setting work. It's the same thing with expecting every hero to help every other hero out in every story.
What's worse is that it is a valid point, but it will be completely ignored because of the big secret that Doom has been cartoonishly evil behind the scenes.

>>149727408
>And your mutant associates cured death, yet they never shared this cure.
That's not true. They instituted the Phoenix Foundation and mandated that a percentage quota of the Five's work would be dedicated towards non-mutant humanitarian ends.

>>149727757
It cuts in the other direction. Doom could no doubt have done more to help people in the past.

>>149727757
>the big secret that Doom has been cartoonishly evil behind the scenes
That's our Doom!

>>149727408
>>149727416
But these characters HAVE shared their scientific advancements with the world. Reed should easily be able to counter with examples, but of course the comic doesn't let him, which makes it look like Doom has a point.

>>149727449
I thought Doom loved and cared for the Latverian people??

>>149727449
>>149727458
>>149727463
>>149727467
I get that they needed a twist to show that Doom was still being evil (even though we've seen plenty of examples of him being evil in the tie-ins, like how he nuked Shelbyville over in Thunderbolts) but why does Doom have to offer up the souls of his own people?
Wouldn't it make more sense if his people were all happy, and instead Doom has been sending all "undesirables" worldwide to soul harvesting facilities? All dissidents, all criminals, everyone Doom's regime or the governments that collaborate with him want gone are being tortured? It would still show Doom being evil without feeling OOC, since Doom genuinely cares for the people of Latveria.

>>149727902
>>149727904
Maybe it's precisely because he cares for the Latverian people that this works. It wouldn't really be a cost for him, if it was people he didn't care about.
Kind of like how in Unthinkable, Doom got a huge power boost by sacrificing the original Valeria, the only woman he ever loved.

>>149727449
So, uh, how are they going to restore the status quo after this? It'll be hard to justify Doom being the beloved dictator of Latveria after this, his people should now hate him forever.

>>149727468
You'd think that Reed would have brought that up in the debate.

>>149727449
Why does Doom need to do this though? He's the sorcerer supreme godman. What's this for?

>>149727455
He looks like a middle schooler

>>149727950
Being the Sorcerer Supreme isn't enough, to do what he's done he needed even more power, and since magic needs a "cost" this is the cost.

>>149727389
>>149727396
I get that Doom is bullshitting either way, but I thought that the conspiracy theory was that ROOSEVELT knew that Pearl Harbor was coming and did nothing.

>>149727389
Hasn't it been historically proven that even the Americans themselves knew Pearl Harbour was going to happen a day or two beforehand?

>>149727449
Doom could have just used that Krakoa seed he had and grow a new Krakoa and then kidnap a bunch of mutants to place them there to feed his spells

>>149727958
>Doom, as Emperor of the world, shows up at a talk show, dressed like some faggot with a hoodie
Do the "people" writing these stories not understand the characters at all?

>>149727891
Yeah I don't know why but this shit acts like everything everyone did just doesn't exist. Tony for example was more than happy to hock arc reactor powered cars back when he went bankrupt and had to start over with Stark Resilient.

>>149727980
Nope, American intelligence agencies got a lot of contradictory noise and didn't really communicate well with each other so nobody had the full picture (it's why the CIA was created later). At the time, it seems they thought that Japan was gearing up to launch a major attack in Southeast Asia, not Hawaii.

>>149727980
they purposefully blockaded ships and knew there was going to be some form of retaliation including being told subs were observing pearl harbor but didn't know in what for or day it would be attacked
they were also decrypting japanese messages and knew they were gearing up for something big
this is why people believe in the whole backdoor conspiracy since the point was revitalizing the american economy

>>149727960
What has he done? The world leaders willingly sided with him, he killed off hydra, and then ordered everyone to put their manpower and resources to work at making the world a better place. Nothing he's done in the event requires this amount of magic

>>149727902
Sometimes he provides them with a good life, sometimes it's like 1984 and they're terrified of him.

>>149727950
Enough power to rule the world with no one to oppose him. He wants to keep Strange's powers and make sure that the entire superhero community can't stop him. He's had god powers before and still lost.

>>149727449
Victorious is cool with this?

>>149728176
Victorious presumably doesn't know. She's working with Doom again over in Iron Man, but she clearly isn't part of his inner circle.
I assume Kristoff knows. I'd wonder if Boris knows, but that would require writers to remember that Boris exists.

>>149727458
If Doom is speaking the truth here and these *are* volunteers, then how is this even evil? Like, if you'd tell a father that if he sacrifices himself, his family will all live in perfect utopia for the rest of their lives (and this is basically guaranteed), there's a lot of people who'd gladly make that sacrifice. It's probably magic and he can't just use anyone as a battery, but if it's just volunteers (and you use the kind-of-cop-out excuse of Doom caring about all the people of the world) then this is basically fine. Like, if you ask for volunteers, you'll probably get more people signing up for this from across the world that you get people signing up for the military. Like, the number of deaths from this would probably be far, far less than what starvation, disease and war causes globally. Yes, this utilitarianism, but that's a perfectly valid moral philosophy.

>>149727458
And still they will tolerate Doom and undermine the lesser evils of Von bardas and Dreadknight every single time.

>>149727443
how do they suddenly have radio

>>149727475
How do you respond to this without sounding mad

>This dogshit ass event is running until November
>It just hit August

>>149727561
>the call of tight brown pussy is too alluring
I symphatize with Kristoff.

>>149728257
It's fine because all the other comics not tied to it have already moved on. I don't know how much longer Avengers is going to be part of it but there's at least another Avengers title that isn't.

>>149728269
Mainline Avengers has finished its tie-in,s o it's moving on with its main Kang related plot

>>149728257
Feels pretty nice that Moon Knight has had nothing to do with this event and seemingly won't in the future either.

>>149727353 (OP)
>pic
Good. Reed Richard or whatever his name is is a fucking abomination. Stretch powers suck.

>>149727408
>"Is that a giant co-"

>>149727524
Annihilus being done dirty I see, suppose was his turn sooner or later

>>149727408
>>149727787
>And your mutant associates cured death, yet they never shared this cure.
>It was--and remains--an incalculable act of hate.
If he's actually lying about this, does that count as a mutant blood libel?

>>149727580
Huh, guess maybe Annihilus wasn't done completely dirty

>>149727416
>Professor Richards is a JERK!
That's a slightly odd reference to put in there, but sure, let's run with it.

>>149727489
You thought you were kissing Miscegenation Girl, BUT IT WAS ME, STABBOON!

>>149728541
He's been done dirtier.

>>149727408
yeah, this doesnt work for me. Its true but ignored in universe for narrative reasons.

>>149728605
What Bendis did with him still haunts my soul but only vaguely familiar with this panel. What issue is this from?

>>149728678
It's from Hickman Fantastic Four run in this case it's FF #17

>>149727449
I know this is supposed to be a shocked betrayal of Doom's core values for the sake of power but we all know a large amount of Americans wouldn't give a fuck about this... In fact, they'd be pissed that they weren't getting a cut

>live in garage
>balding
>Ted Wassanasong will never respect you
>daughter is a poly slut who couldn't even get into an Ivy League school
>animals fuck in front of you
Why did Kahn lose the hardest?

>>149728819
I think you may have posted in the wrong thread.

>>149728819
because of Doom

>>149728854
Why did Doom destroy Kahn's life?

>>149727353 (OP)
How is this STILL going?

>>149727452
No. Dark Reign was a time period, not an event.

>>149727980
Wasn't part of the thing also that Japan was going to declare war before the attack, but fucked it up because of timezones or something?

>>149727787
Bullshit, we all know they were forced into doing that after their revival egg factory was exposed.

They were happy to never let anyone come back.

>>149728858
because Dr Doom thought Kahn was Kang but is to proud to admit the simple mistake and just kept on the torment to make it seem deliberate.

>>149727902
It fluctuates. In Master of Doom, he took time to answer the questions of school children, but at the same time, he ordered his guards to watch an cheering crowd and execute the first person to stop clapping.

That being said, I can totally buy them all being volunteers.

>>149728686
>Hickman
ah, he also did that awful page of character assassination towards Absorbing man so say no more.

>>149727449
Flat bitches

>>149727370
Here for Carol
>>149727980
They knew Japan was going to attack, but didn't know where and assumed it was just going to be The Phillipines.
>>149728911
No, they were going to break off negotiations about ending their war in China and the American oil embargo. They never planned to declare war before the attack.

>>149727449
What are the giant spider robots for?

>>149727980
what? no. That has always been America first bullshit. There was so much shit going on that the US only knew that retaliations was a likely outcome but nothing specific

>>149728911
No, initially, it was a declaration that peace negotiations are to end. It was to arrive 30 minutes before the attack but the transcription in the embassy took over an hour before it could be delivered to Washington.

The actual declaration was received only after the attack, the intention was always subterfuge

>>149727902
They might be Symkarian PoWs. He invaded and conquered Symkaria like five years back. And he really hates Symkarians.

>>149729093
to eat the Fly Robots

>>149727449
>This event written just after Ryan North played through XCOM 2 for the first time

>>149727408
In one page Victor proved why DC with its mistakes is a better Earth than 616 Marvel

>>149727408
WHERE ARE THE GIANT CHICKENS, HANK?!

>>149727936
Reed probably doesn't know

>>149728216
There are children huddling in fear in the cages

>>149727386
"You could have prevented that tragedy," said the guy to the dictator he could have put down any number of times.

>>149730384
Why not? Blue Marvel and Tony Stark know, why wouldn't they tell him?

>>149727416
come on north (and negligent marvel editors), it's been established since nearly the beginning that the fantastic four make their income by selling reed's patents

>>149727902
There were at least few stories before where Doom takes over the world but Latveria always suffers in the process. It makes sense because Doom is Latveria, if he is not around the system doesn't work.

>>149728219
Dreadknight could never achieve his goal of defeating Doom anyway. Why he always gets sidetracked and gets dumped into a group of bad guys.

>>149727386
>UH YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED BLOOD HUNT!
man fuck you Reed, this is Moon Knight stolen valor. The guy who ended Blood Hunt was Marc Spector after Tigra and 8-Ball broke Khonshu out of his prison in Asgard, returning the Moon to the night sky and ending the eternal darkness (Blood Hunt as an event was literally written by Jed Mackay who's been in charge of Moon Knight for the last five years, it was a Moon Knight event first and foremost with the crossover shit as incidental)
The cringe shit with Vampire-Miles (as if he needed ANOTHER power-up....) fighting the weakened progenitor was like a footnote and got like ten pages total, there were vampires rampaging around the entire world and permanent darkness that required literal divine intervention to defeat and Marc leading a massive undead army of every single past moon knight who had ever lived pouring out of Khonshu's domain to kill vampires across the globe.

the fact Reed let all this happen and didn't even bother with his synthetic blood wannabe-HBO-TrueBlood shit until AFTER they had nearly destroyed the world is peak midwit behavior, especially criticizing it after the fact when if ANYONE can be accused of standing by to let others suffer, it's him. Reed Richards could literally cure cancer if he felt like it, he doesn't even need to invent it himself, just copy the one in Wakanda and distribute it to the whole world.

>>149727902
>I thought Doom loved and cared for the Latverian people??
It's one of the most frustratingly inconsistent parts of Marvel writing. SOMETIMES Doom is an authoritarian asshole and egotist, but he provides Latveria with a Wakanda-tier standard of living out of pure pride and ego, and it's meant to be a "Which is better? Freedom or Safety?" dilemma where the people of Latveria don't really care that they can't vote or have democracy because the things that western liberal democratic politicians campaign on or make promises to achieve, they already have.
>Freedom vs Security
This is usually how it's presented when Doom is dunking on other heroes or calling them out as hypocrites, like during Krakoa when the X-Men violated international law and sent forces inside Latveria's borders to try and remove all the Mutants in it by force: Latveria was basically the only country that DIDN'T sign Krakoa's bullshit treaties giving all mutants in the world diplomatic immunity in exchange for recognition and their magical cancer curing plants they held hostage to strong-arm the world into letting them do whatever they want. Doom reveals that Latveria's mutants don't WANT to leave and he calls out how retarded it is for Charles to demand EVERY MUTANT in Krakoa be considered a full Diplomat with Diplomatic Immunity and how shameless that is as a demand to give them full legal immunity, and then when people DON'T give them diplomatic immunity they break the law and ignore sovereign borders anyways like with Latveria.

Other times, when Doom is more directly villainous and is the primary antagonist rather than a side character, Latveria is shown to be needlessly, pointlessly cruel and undeveloped. Despite being a supergenius and super-wizard, Latveria is depicted as a soviet-style eastern european shithole, and the conflict is "Doom is evil, but he's the lawful ruler of Latveria, do we have the right to intervene/cause an international incident?" with that as the issue

>>149727408
The obvious counter to this argument is that the mutants made the same justifications: the super-science available had never bettered the world, so they were going to go to Krakoa and make everything better. When they terraformed mars, they even cited a lot of these exact same points.

And sure, that's bullshit because the state of the marvel world is kept repressed for narrative purposes, except where it's advanced for narrative purposes, like in Krakoa or right here under Doom. (I wouldn't mind stopping that.)

Point is, the mutants responded by keeping all their shit for themselves, the exact way everyone else has done. And now Doom is doing the exact same thing- Even though he's spreading the goods, it's only in the context of his own total control. Points for doing *something*, but it's still not a good answer. Richards can't trust any tech out of his own control, so he doesn't share; Doom can't trust any tech out of his own control, so he takes control of everything. It's two wrong answers to the same problem.

God forbid we examine that issue, secret torture farm go!

>>149727467
>These glories cannot be achieved otherwise
Might sound more convincing if he hadn't just spent a spread with all the ways amazing advancements can be done otherwise. Like, it'd even go to further his point. "This is just the stuff that those dickheads haven't shared with you. If I'm not in charge, infinite food and energy just go to waste."

>>149727950
>>149727960
Being Sorcerer Supreme does not come with a powerrup. It has a minimum power requirement to get the job. It does come with a collection of cool magical artifacts and some super special magic knowledge but it's up to the individual to educate themselves with those.

>>149727891
>>149727408
>>149727416
Same argument can be made about Doom, he did the exact same thing as T'Calla and blocked off his nation too and never shared any scientific advancement with the world either.

He invented time travel, he also discovered Pym Particles, figured out how to artificially create cosmic energy, and knows how to clone people. He shared none of this.

>>149728176
She is also blocked outside the dome and has no idea what is going on. There was an Avengers issue a few months ago with her losing her shit over being abandoned and kicked out.

>>149727902
Doom forces them to pretend to be happy perfect people but he does rebuild their daily lives into a perfect planned utopia. But they are not allowed to leave, and if they look or act any less than perfect happy citizens he kills them.

Thing is, their alternative was being dirt poor peasants to a despotic dictator who is outwardly evil and routinely kills/tortures them the old fashioned way. so their choices were always peaceful imprisonment under Doom but in a nice home with air conditioning. Or horrible enslavement and routine beatings and killings under Zorba in a disgusting peasant hovel without electricity.

>>149727904
He's a poorly thought out Trump stand-in. No one involved in this story is thinking too hard.

>>149734582
I'd assumed she was let back in since Doom gave her her job back in Iron Man.

>>149733563
It's not so inconsistent. Doom loves Latveria but he also believes that Latveria owes so much to Doom that it should be willing to sacrifice for the good of Doom because what's good for Doom is what's good for Latverria. He pulled the same shit in Ultimate Alliance 3 dlc.

>>149727408
I wonder if Doom still has his Ororobot.

Red Hulk is such a stupid idea for a book right now, but I'm a sucker for Deathstroke and Machine Man and I like how Percy is writing them so I'm begrudgingly following along

>>149736203
* Deathlok

>>149734692
He's not a Trump stand-in because he's portrayed as smart and competent. Liberals are incapable of doing Trump stand-ins that aren't fucking morons.

>>149727449
He just argued like five page back about making hard sacrifices that end up in massacre, which in a few years end up improving the entire planet.

Just use that same argument here.

fucking marvel and its shit writing i swear.

>>149727373
>News knows about the Illuminati

Fucking what?

>>149734692
>He's a poorly thought out Trump stand-in.

oh fuck off, Doom was doing his global dictator shit before Trump made his first million dollars (not by much though, god damn, I didn't realize how much of a stereotypical boomer he is).

>>149737080
Didn't Worldbreaker Hulk reveal their existence when he captured them and forced them to do gladiator fights in Times Square?

Also I think they were fugitives in Hickman's run during Time Runs Out

The world governments sided with Namor's Cabal and let them destroy worlds during the Incursions and the Illuminati went on the run

>>149727386
NIGGA YOU COULD LITERALLY CURE CANCER! WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?!

>>149731339
He means the good patients. I want the magic fitness bed not a fucking light that turns off when I clap.

>>149727654
Oh my god, he has a direct line to the current supreme leader of the world. What’s next, he also did all of his paperwork properly? Is congressionally funded? Doesn’t have any incriminating posts on his Facebook?

>>149727449
I was wondering how the writer was gonna make Doom lose in the end with how great Doom made life for everyone. And the answer was, "Have him be Hitler to his own people." Like...it's really lazy, and the Heroes just look like petulant children who just happen to be right.

>>149737129
This entire story is nothing but a leftist bitchfest by troons who are eternally sour Trump won the election. Nothing else.

>>149736624
To be fair, Captain Keikaku was as smart and competent as the narrative would allow. Don't think Doom is one here, though.

This feels like you could cut out 70% of the story so far and nothing would change for OWUD

>>149727353 (OP)
>still another 3 months to go somehow

>>149727370
Those are some of the worst drawings of Carol, Wanda, Natasha and Storm I've ever seen, but they're official Marvel art, and Marvel seriously chose to use them on this page showcasing the cast.

>>149737183
You ever read Death of Captain Marvel? Where they specifically state that nobody, not Reed, not even the greatest alien empires can cure cancer? I do. Why do so many retards always seem to think that just because someone is smart in universe they can just magic away all the world's problems.

>>149738353
Because that was written by personal experience of father dying of cancer and being completely helpless against it. Later writers use cancer as just a generic bad thing that curing can be used as a stick of progress/turned into a joke like an anti-Deadpool weapon.

>>149738353
>Where they specifically state that nobody, not Reed, not even the greatest alien empires can cure cancer?
a comic from 1982 which is superceded by decades of later canon which includes plenty of cancer cures, you mean?
Most egregiously Wakanda has it, but Norman Osborn also figured out the cure to cancer and specifically used it to do nothing but make a weapon to try and kill Deadpool (by curing his cancer, his healing factor is no longer kept in check and it would spiral out of control and destroy him supposedly), and then you've got one-offs like Sauron admitting to Spiderman that yes, with his technology allowing full-body DNA editing and transformation in real-time, he COULD cure cancer.....but he doesn't want to cure cancer, he just wants to turn people into dinosaurs.

Then you've got soul-transfers, clone bodies, shit like the X-Men editing their entire bodies for fun to die and be brought back in whatever ideal form they wanted (including Emma taking the opportunity to make all her plastic surgery and breast implants her real body measurements, and change her natural hair color to blonde, purely out of vanity) on Krakoa with magic cancer curing plants....The entire Clone Saga and Ben Reilly coming back as the Jackal, curing clone degeneration, and Lady Death herself showing up to verify that everybody Jackal cloned has 100% the same soul as the original person so it's a form of resurrection, not a separate copy or individual.
>MUH READ COMICS!
why don't YOU try reading a comic that's not fucking 43 years old?

>>149739044
>>149738353

>>149738353
>>149739061
>>149739044

>>149727382
>>149727374
Man, the synergy in this event is fucking awful. Fantastic Four is one of the few books that actually seems to care about weaving this bullshit into this story, and it JUST had Doom teleport them across literally ALL of time.

It's almost excusable that yeah, they couldn't wrangle the entire schedule so that the timeine in the books all match up (especially since they're doing the even dumber editorial choice of pointlessly relaunching to attract speculators AGAIN), but just from a tonal juxtaposition, this whole thing of having a story where they're in a talk show while in the other book he's basically killed them outright; it's just weird feeling.

>>149727408
Airdropping giant chickens seems like the worst idea possible. Look at them, one's even loose. Those people are DEAD.

Reminds me of that one shitty manga where all the adults would turn into chickens and such, and proceeded to kill everyone

>>149739139
The tie-in Fantastic Four written by the same author had Reed develop a blood substitute for vampires when he was aware of a problem which doesn't benefit him, so it feels a bit odd that the selfish behavior angle Dr. Doom attacked with wasn't shot down directly.

>>149739196
Chickens are mean. I can see the headline now. Staving Nations devastated by Giant Co.... wait I can do better.

>>149739044
Every time someone brings this up I think about when Lex cured his sister of her condition that left her drooling and stuck in a wheelchair. He cured her and then retracted that to prove a point and use her as a bargaining chip. It perfectly shows how evil people would weaponize something as universally good as the cure for cancer. And there's already plenty of examples of it in reality when you hear about the prices for drugs people need in order to live. All that's left is a story where someone does release a cure but some pharmaceutical company fucks them over and steals the patent and only they can produce it. In fact I could see Reed releasing a cure and then Doom fucks him over through a company he set up to do just that.

>>149728176
Victorious is a simp with about three functioning brancells. Even if she found out, it'd take Doom ten seconds to make her not care

>>149739363
Loose tangent, but that reminds me of how pissed I was at the recent Superior Spider-Man: there was a whole bit about Peter saying Otto hadn't earned any redemption (only the mental image version that sacrificed himself at the end of the 2013 book), but Peter actually DID say Otto earned a clean slate when he saved May in Go Down Swinging, and BOTH were written by Dan Slott, yet he somehow forgot it. To make it even worse, somehow the manga Octopus Girl actually managed to remember this moment more than Slott did.