Thread 149730971

does any one else think that becoming the Gray Ghost would be the perfect next step for Tim Drake. if not what do you think would be better.

Dude it's over, you need to accept it and move on.

>>149730971 (OP)
Is Gray Ghost Tim Drake's Red Ronin?
I have no idea what this Gray Ghost is.

>>149730971 (OP)
Not a bad suit

More like the Gay Ghost (actual DC character)

>>149730971 (OP)
Needs to become Flamebird.

>>149730971 (OP)
Making Tim the Grey Ghost is another symptom of having no fucking clue what to do to set him apart, and just randomly slapping names on him connected to Batman
What attachment would Tim have to a show Bruce watched as a kid in BTAS? He has never had an attachment to him in his 35 year history. He likes Sherlock Holmes.
Dick was part of the World's Finest trio of Batman and Superman, so he gets a Superman identity that was meant to be Krypton's Batman. Incredibly clever, one of the best name reuses in comics to the point he owns the name.
Jason got killed by Joker, so he mocks him by using a former identity he buried. Clever
Twitter wants Tim to adopt the identity of a Saturday morning tv show. It's like if he said he was going to be the Red Ranger from now on.

>>149730971 (OP)
Yes, but play up the old school detective noir angle more then the acrobatics and combat aspects other former Robins excel in. Like he's more about solving mysteries then beating up gangs of thugs and villains. He can still have his gear and gadgets and staff, but he's not a full blown man-of-action type.

Also he needs the hat.

oh genuinely curious whats the lore behind this. it my first time posting and i never know that the conversion was already had and over with what happened.

already have batman at home

>>149731201
You never watched Batman TAS?

>>149730971 (OP)
I think Cardinal could work since it's a red bird, but it's also very Catholic
Maybe if they paired him up with Jean Paul Valley

I think the best option for Tim as a character would have been to become a Blue Beetle legacy after he had bonded with Ted back in the day.
But the introduction of Jaime and Reach lore has made that moot

>>149730971 (OP)
More like gay ghost
He is ruined untill new full reboot like crisis on inf earths,kill him for few years and have batman get some growth from it
Give it 10 years and he should have gay stench mostly removed

>>149731306
yeah but think the about name reuses doesn't have to be pointless. he a nerd that likes mystery and he really doesn't want to become batman but is still really cares and is loyal to batman. Bruce believes that he's gonna be the greatest detective . him become the gray ghost could be a symbol of what Bruce and him finding a path that fells comfortable for him as a detective, nerd and inspired by/a inspiration to batman's mission.

>>149730971 (OP)
More like the gay ghost amirite?

>>149731783
If you have to add this all after Tim being aroudn for over 30 years, it's bad writing. Grey Ghost is barely a thing in the comics since they just have Zorro since DKR as Batman's direct inspiration, hell evidently a lot of people here didn't even know of the Grey Ghost episode. Having Batman start citing GG as his real inspiration and Tim using that for his own inspiration comes off as incredibly contrived.
Tim has his own likes(Sherlock Holmes, Blue Beetle, and other detective heroes) you can use as a point of inspiration instead of clumsily trying to graft on a plot point because the name sounds cool.

>>149731321
I'd honestly read a series that's just Tim solving mysteries as a private detective in Gotham.

>>149731586
>I think Cardinal could work since it's a red bird, but it's also very Catholic
>Maybe if they paired him up with Jean Paul Valley
actually kinda kino wtf

>>149732143
Isn't Tim an Atheist?

>>149732161
Who fucking cares anymore, he's hasn't been a character for almost as long as I've been alive. Imagine being an atheist in a universe that you know contains unironic creator beings, lol.

>>149732143
Issue 13 of azrael and cardinal : Azrael beats tim with a rock for being gay part 13 of 26

>>149732196
Sounds great. There should be a subplot consisting solely of Dick creampieing Starfire once for every time Tim gets beat up.

>>149730971 (OP)
Tim has literally never had any connection to "Gray Ghost", this is something some fags just made up.
So no, it wouldn't be perfect.

>>149732196
>>149732250
Repugnant.

>>149730971 (OP)
Gray Ghost isn't a character, he's just a TV show stand in for The Shadow.
Also in fiction of TAS, Gray Ghost is a fictional character.
It would be if Tim met Tom Holland and decided to become Spider-Man.
It's stupid.

>>149732301
Recently, in the Nightwing Annual, he was a comic character too.

>>149730971 (OP)
Timfags are so desperate to get Tim a nee identity they'll just use whatever, huh?

JUST MAKE HIM RED ROBIN AGAIN
It's unironically the perfect progression for Tim's character, he technically remains a Robin, but bigger and slightly more Batman-inspired.
Tim doesn't have any real character connections outside of Batman like Dick and Jason where he could take an old identity from, so just let him become Robin: The Sequel, makes sense for the character that's supposed to be the perfect Robin.

>>149730971 (OP)
No one else has ever thought about Tim Drake

>>149732442
they did when comics still sold.

>>149730971 (OP)
Not fond of him as grey ghost, feels really random, my personal favorite concept is him as red x, ive commissioned the idea multiple times.

>>149732442
I mean, he's popular still.
>>149732341
I mean, just some people like it, i dont but i get it i guess.

>>149732624
I don't care how much cool art you commission, Red X makes even LESS sense to me, there's a reason that identity is usually given to Jason or Damian in fan stories, it fits them and their edgy characters, it doesn't fit Tim.

>>149732196
I mean Azrael's a priest

He'll just molest boys younger than Tim and the church will cover it up

>>149730971 (OP)
just make him the new question

>>149732638
I get the concept of giving Tim a new identity, but surely we could do better than giving him identities from adaptations that make no sense for Tim like Gray Ghost and Red X.

>>149732688
The whole point behind red robin for tim WAS that it was an edgy identity, it works much better as a replacer than grey ghost, an identity that doesnt play on any concept tied to tim, and that he has even less history with, without a ton of random "oh tim was actually a huge fan all along"

And yeah people think jason should be red x cause they think he's the one in the show, despite it not matching it either.

>>149732730
Idk, i still hold that red x fits the concept they were going for red robin better? And the other ids ive seen dont really work with the pattern for the robins.

>>149731586
Cardinal ive always liked
That or redbird

>>149732734
Red Robin is edgier than Robin, but only because it's a more Batman-like Robin, it makes sense as a progression for a Robin even outside just being edgy, it's honestly a better mix of the Batman and Robin concepts than that weird Earth-2 Adult Robin suit.
Red X on the other hand is completely detached from the Batman and Robin origins, it's edgy too, but it loses the inspiration and doesn't really feel like an evolution of either idea, which makes sense since it originated as an identity for Dick to go undercover in.
Also, Red Robin doesn't have to be edgy, you know? Tim as a character is way past that edgy phase, but the Red Robin identity can fit whether he's edgy or not, while Red X literally wears a skull mask, that's not something I can imagine Tim doing normally in the long run.

How about Black Bat?
>another obvious evolution of the Robin identity
>takes an identity from someone close to him (Cass) like Dick and Jason did

>>149731586
I like the Cardinal name, not so much trying to make Tim a Catholic character.
Also, isn't Tim Jewish?

>>149730971 (OP)
I feel like if he became Gray Ghost, people might wrongly think he has a connection with Ghost-Maker, so that's gonna be a no from me.

>>149732978
I think everyone already forgot this guy exists

>>149733005
Probably yeah, he's only really shown up recently in Pride Specials like Tim, but if we made Tim a ghost, maybe that would remind people of Ghost-Maker, so it's still gonna be a no from me.

>>149730971 (OP)
The domino mask under the cowl makes me angry for some reason. Decent design otherwise.

>>149731978
This, didn't they try to do something like that with Barbera but it was shitty? I would read "Tim Drake: Boy Detective."

>>149730971 (OP)
>>149732624
>I know what new identity Tim should have!
>Some identity from a cartoon show that has no connection to him at all!

>>149732814
I meant in universe, tim took the red robin name specifically because one of his villains had used it. And red robin worked in that specific context/if there is no post robin identity.

I mean, i am using RX as a stand in for RR.

>>149733125
Eh, i think red x fits the same stuff that red robin did in canon, that's why i suggest it lol.

Bring back Drake

>>149733142
>i am using RX as a stand in for RR.
I get that, but I'm not considering alternate histories here, Red X maybe would've worked as an identity for Tim at the time, but not in the long run like Red Robin.
There's a reason Tim still uses the Red Robin name in adaptations, Red Robin just makes sense as an evolution of Robin as we've seen multiple times, Red X is something completely different and unrelated from Tim from the Teen Titans cartoon.

>>149732759
Why not "Redwing?"

It's a bird with all the requisite colors and a really cool, almost mechanical-sounding call.

>>149733216
I find it funny how quickly they ditched that identity.
No one even TRIED to make Drake work, they just got rid of it as soon as they had the chance lmao
It also resulted in Tim using three different identities in one month, Drake, Red Robin, and Robin.

The introduction of Damien really, really fucked Tim's character. We had "Fun Robin" in Dick, we had "Grim Robin" in Jason, and Tim was meant to be "Young Robin."

>>149730971 (OP)
>>149732624
>>149732417
>>149732892

So does Tim have nothing in his lore that lets him get out of the Robin/Batman shadow?

Just make him Red Robin again.
And give him wings, I liked his Boy Wonder look.

>>149733270
that would be kind of sick for how damian is progressing in the comics.

He’s gay now, let him get zesty.

>>149733309
>>149733306
>yaeh

>>149733309
He likes other DC detectives, so you could theoretically have him pal around with anyone
>>149733306
It really should've because Tim and Damian are such different characters, problem is DC went all in on stripping Tim of his unique elements and making Tim adopted to fit the classic Robin role..then Morrison bought in Damian as a biological child,which will always feel more like a proper son than a third adopted kid who was kept as a neighbor for over a decade before.
Tim is the model sidekick and Damian is the problem child who aspires to be the ideal. They're at two different points

>>149733309
He had Young Justice and later Teen Titans I guess. But no real uncle figure like Superman or "guy who killed me" like Joker, he just had a bunch of friends, and he couldn't exactly become Wonder Secret Super Impulse.

>>149733249
Idk i think starting with him using it to infitrate some villain thing would work?
>>149733309
Not relly, its just that robin 1/2 lucked out with pre-existing identities. Where they cribbed one from superman and joker respectively.
>>149733320
I feel red robin is odd outside the batman reborn context.

>>149732913
I don't want to make Tim Catholic

But I do think throwing him into the whole St Dumas bullshit alongside Azrael could give him a niche the other Robins aren't already covering

Will also say, i feel grey ghost tim works more when it leans into his existing design elements. Rather than giving the one robin that didnt wear a tunic, a tunic. And even then, you'd need to create context for it.

>>149733270
Redwing would work really well and especially with that color scheme reminds me of his undernet uniform

>>149733557
I feel redwing's too similar to nightwing ngl.

>>149733540
Didn't Tim wear a tunic when he was Red Robin?

>>149733582
that's why it would be great for damian

>>149733608
I think flamebird fits more.Yeah i know bette. But damian's is dick's actual robin (and he works better as HIS sidekick than bruce's)
>>149733597
When he was wearing jason/ulysies's costume, but he quickly changed it to the sleeker design. Because tim's the robin that prioirtizes that as robin.

>>149733513
>I feel red robin is odd outside the batman reborn context
How so? It's been used before and after that story a ton, it's basically just a different more advanced flavor of Robin, it works in many contexts.
Way more than Red X at least, which is more of a villain/anti-hero identity.

>>149733638
Its still has robin in its name. It works for adult robin, but not if there's another robin around, unless said robin didnt intend to stop being robin. Its also not really been used afterwards desu.

And i mean, the initital context was that, and a character then keeping that id/wanting to make it less villanous is a pretty solid trope?

Way i see it there's basically two routes for tim. You either keep the red robin design but rename it, to some other sort of bird. Or you pick another identity that's pre-existing but not too tied to another character and fit it into his characterization like dick-jason did.

How about tengu
In a elseworlds story that was his name

Could call him sparrow Which was used in the dc marvel crossover when he and jubilee were merged together would be a fun deep cut

Barn Swallow has nice colors but the name would need work.

>>149733270
>>149733367
>>149733557
Threw something together.

>>149733673
how about lark
or flaming- wait that's already a bad guy
or peng- wait that's already a bad guy
or owl- wait that's already a bad guy

>>149733760
Yeah ive seen that one suggested a lot.
>>149733918
Lark was a name given to duke once. Yeah lots are taken lol.

>>149733760
They used Sparrow on that We Are Robin girl who was hanging out with Tim in his last mini, the one with Rossmo art

>>149733918
I think Lark was going to be Duke's codename before they realized it's stupid and couldn't think of anything else so they settled on Signal

>>149733961
Sparrow is by far the most common.

>>149734020
Sparrow works well

>>149733652
>Its still has robin in its name. It works for adult robin
I'd argue that's exactly why it fits Tim, the supposed perfect Robin, just double down on that, Tim literally can't move on from the Robin identity, so just make him a Robiner Robin.
>not if there's another robin around
I don't think him having Robin in his name is a problem, specially since other characters have "bat" in their names or "Super" or "Lantern", Tim is a Robin, he's just Red as a distinction to show he graduated from the role.
Better than being JUST Robin while Damian is also Robin, at least with Red Robin there's a slight difference.
>the initital context was that, and a character then keeping that id/wanting to make it less villanous is a pretty solid trope?
The thing is that Red Robin didn't start as a villainous identity like Red X, it's fundamentally just an older version of Robin, no matter if some Anarky guy used it, out of universe, it was more like Tim finally graduating beyond Robin.

>>149734034
na i don't like i could be made weird fast

>>149733673
>some other sort of bird
I find it funny how Robin started as a Robin Hood reference but as time went on they started leaning on the bird instead.
>another identity that's pre-existing but not too tied to another character and fit it into his characterization like dick-jason did.
I feel like we should just stop trying that with Tim, Dick and Jason genuinely got very lucky that identities like Nightwing and Red Hood were just collecting dust AND made also perfect sense for their characters, not all characters are so lucky, Tim definitely isn't.
You also forgot the third route, which would be just having Tim retire and become a civilian but we all know that's never happening.

>>149734135
If we go back to the robin hood inspiration would tim work as little john since he fought with the quarter staff
(Jason would work as scarlet now that i think about it)

>>149734020
Really? I usually see Cardinal thrown around more.

"Cardinal" has too many syllables, to me. It grates the ear as a superhero name. They need to be snappier.

>>149734167
If i remember correctly wasn't cardinal one of the names tim suggested when he got the ok from bruce to be his sidekick

>>149734193
>too many syllables
It has fucking 3, the same amount as Superman, how is that too many?

>>149734034
I get it, even if i don love it.
>>149734069
I dont hate red robin, i like it within its ocntext, but i do get why people dont like it.

I mean, its an issue when the other robin...still wears red.

In-universe that was the context. Same for jason having used it.
>>149734135
Makes sense with BAT man.

Its just that the pattern works for a reason, you know? I also suggest it for damian. Closst i could see to retiring is him being future!oracle.
>>149734167
i saw sparrow more, maybe cardinal is more used these days.

>>149732913
>norse surname
>proportionately sized nose
>well-developed facial features
>nsfw artists always draw him as intact
There is no way he's Jewish

>>149734493
Maybe that's the true reason he and Aryan princess Stephanie Braun broke up.

>>149734581
Funnier if they date with that.

>>149734193
It's the same number of syllables as Red Robin

I prefer Robin.

How about tanager

>>149733439
Damian is a bastard child conceived via rape who was then dumped off at Bruce's doorstep when he was a teenager. Tim and the others feel way more like proper sons than him.

>>149730971 (OP)
Tim should just be a cop or detective, his job as Robin as done- no need for him to be a superhero anymore, wasn’t that the whole point? He took the job to help Bruce out and lead him out of the path of darkness he was heading towards after Jason’s death? The reason no one can find anything to do with Tim Drake post Robin because there IS nothing to do- vigilante wise that is, Tim’s a good guy, two parent household, no traumatic backstory, no need for him to continue doing the Robin sh-t and I don’t see him becoming a solo hero either when Gotham has plenty- I’d think he’d continue to try and help in a more standard way

>>149734975
I wouldnt say done, especially when damian just doesnt function as bruce's robin.

>>149732417
This also if you don’t wanna do the cop thing, Red Robin is genuinely good and idk why it’s not used, makes sense, Tim is just a glorified fanboy in the end, he wouldn’t want to usurp or become Bruce

>>149734993
Well Tim can’t have the job forever can he? Unless, hey…I’m not against that- perma Robin works with him since he’s not someone who’s ever been embarrassed or held back by the role like the other 3- but if not that then yeah, I stand by him just retiring from the superhero business and becoming a cop or detective- I think that’s more fun honestly, maybe he can do Red Robin every now and then if needed but other than that I think that’s just the realistic progression of the character

>>149735089
Oh no i do get that he cant be robin forever and all. Just that red robin doesnt really solve it. I wouldnt say damian was embarassed by robin either, he just doesnt work as "bruce's" robin, he works as dick's.

>>149734993
You keep saying that, but they've worked multiple times, it's just a different dynamic.

The only Robin I see as Catholic coded is Jason because he was given a Requiem by an IRL priest, and became a Catholic Priest in Flashpoint.

>>149735169
I dont think it has the times they've tried it, is just missing contrast between the two. His personality is the same type as bruce's only younger. I like some of the stories with the two, but its such a fundamentally different dynamic it doesnt really resemble the batman and robin one, unlike the other 4.

>>149734924
I doesn't matter, a biokid is a more workable angle for a son than a 16 year old latchkey kid who was effectively taking care of his own ailing father suddenly adopting another man's name.

>>149735147
Well there’s nothing to solve, Tim’s story arc is complete and I think people just can’t accept that- he’s one of the few Batman, DC, COMIC characters to have a complete character arc that ends satisfyingly- he appears, announces his intentions and purposes, fulfills them, then moves on- Red Robin doesn’t solve anything in a sense there’s nothing to solve, but it continues the Tim Drake story in the most logical way- he’s the only one that took the mantle of Robin out of his own choice and sense of justice, so it makes sense he would be attached and continue on with it after stepping back into the hero life, I think it’s great- just needs a few kinks and adjustments of course but I think they should have stuck to their guns, they had the right pulse of the character-

>>149735380
Almost like Tim didn’t need to be Bruce’s son in the first place.

>>149735280
Agree to disagree, there's merit to seeing characters with similar personalities clash, and even then, it's not like Bruce and Damian are the same like you say.
Sure they're similar in some ways, but that's an overly simplification of both characters, they have differences in their approach, they're similar but they also clash exactly because of that. It's not the classic Batman and Robin dynamic, I'd argue Dick and Tim probably hold the trophies there, but I still think it's good.
At the end of the day, it's a dad and his trouble child that reminds him too much of himself, that's a dynamic as old as time.

>>149734680
Which also grates my ear.

>>149734225
It's not just the number, it's the sound of it.

>>149731210
It doesn't look bad but stylistically it doesn't really make any sense. Why is there so much of a bird motif with the helmet and cape clearly meant to evoke a beak and wings? Like clearly it's because they want to associate it stylistically to his various Robin personas, but you're calling him Grey Ghost and while it's certainly grey, where's the ghost theming?

Give him more of a traditional cowl without the pointed nose and attach it to the cape and I could see it working better, or hell drop the cowl/helmet altogether and just give him a hat and mask/goggles combo more akin to the original and lean into the pulp detective vibes >>149731425


>>149731231
That's homophobic

>>149731219
kek

>>149731978
That's almost what we were about to get before the New 52 happened, except it was apparently going to focus on Tim branching out and going more global instead of focusing on Gotham.


Also more like Fagghost amirite

>>149730971 (OP)
Tim Drake is gay. He's ruined forever and there's no saving him or rebuilding his reputation. Let it go.

Denny was right about Son of the Demon in the long run.

>>149735408
Its just that they're a tad too similar for a lot of narrative stuff.

If he wasnt called robin id probably not complain, and idk, jason/steph create friction while still allowing for more contrast
>>149735393
Fair enough yeah/

>>149733306
Except Tim's character was arguably at its peak in the post-Battle For the Cowl era directly as a result of Damian outright stealing his superhero identity.

The problem is just that DC has made nothing but retarded decisions when it comes to the bat family ever since Flashpoint, and people can't stop trying to make him Robin again despite Damian very permanently being the primary Robin now.

You know what, fuck it. Make him the Question.

>>149735676
Based

>>149735676
And not a replacement either, have him, Vic, and Renee all as the Question at the same time so you get a straight man and both flavors of fag all at once.

Don't have them work together, never acknowledge it.

>>149733309
he's like the most "robin" robin

dick is his own character first, then robin, so it's always easy to see him transition into nightwing

jason WOULD have been the most "robin" robin if he didn't die, but now he's most known for that and being red hood. it's why we almost never see jason just be robin in anything, he's always either dead and in the process of becoming red hood or already red hood

damian is batman's son first. yes, he's also the current holder of the robin title, but the most important thing about his identity is being batman's biological son

tim has nothing outside of being robin. it's his most defining feature - just being robin. he's also smart, sure, but that just gets taken by the other robins anyway. if you ever need a robin in an adaptation, you almost always go with tim. dick is almost always nightwing now, same for jason as red hood, and you only go with damian if you want to explore his relationship as batman's biological son. tim is just the "safe" robin for any common situation

>>149735757
>if you ever need a robin in an adaptation, you almost always go with tim
you say this but ironically at least 50% of the time they use "Dick" but just make him Tim in everything but name.

>>149735676
>>149735755
Call him "The Query"

Get it, cause it sounds like queer

>>149735757
It's always funny to me when Tim is described as "the smart one" as if the whole Bat-Family isn't full of borderline geniuses.

>>149735804
Tim wasn't the first Robin to wear pants.

>>149735863
I mean black cape, padding
>>149735804
I dont know if i fully agree, but adpatations do mix the robins up a lot.

>>149735842
This applies to everything, all the bats are good figthers, and most of them are quippy and have moments of big anger, yet.

>>149735842
90% of all comic characters are borderline genius or at least extremely intelligent for a normal human, but canonically Tim is considered to be the most analytically-minded of the Robins to the point that there's been entire storylines about it. It's not so much that he's "the smart one" as it is that he's the one who thinks the most like Bruce, which is a big part of why so many people consider him becoming Batman eventually to be the endgame, or at least they did before he was relegated to token gay representation for the foreseeable future.

Tim should become trans, move out of Gotham, and discover that he has a half-brother.

>>149736002
Make him Batgirl

>>149736034
And then have Damian become Batgirl too so we have to change Tim's identity again.

>>149735960
DC is doing a story where the 4 robins are batman, and fighting bruce. No cass tho.

>>149736074
Yeah, but they're all just branching possible futures because DC doesn't want to fully commit to any of that.

>>149736120
Yeah. Personally i think the ideal fate for future tim is oracle. He and babs overlap the hardest so it makes the most sense.

>>149733309
This but unironically.

>>149732417
Red Robin is dumb and gay. If that's the best option then Tim should just retire or die.

Have Tim forge a new identity separate from Robin with a new name have him be best bros with Conner again so that they can have superhero adventures together.

>>149734135
>I find it funny how Robin started as a Robin Hood reference but as time went on they started leaning on the bird instead.
Only the shitty writers do that.
The real ones go with the classics.

>>149733309
Send Tim into the army and fight for the Veteran character from the Willingham run.
Or find a name from Blue Beetle lore for Tim to steal, because they wouldn't let Dixon make him Blue Beetle back in the day.

>>149736765
If they hadn't just made Dan Garrett into Silver Scarab that might have worked

>>149730971 (OP)
If you’re gonna take inspiration from the DCAU then have Tim become Joker Jr

Redbird it is.
Redwing is already too derivative of Nightwing and Batwing.

>>149735757
I feel like going with Tim as the smart one, is one of the things that caused this problem.

It is all that Tim Wayne nonsense, trying to make him the perfect robin that ruined him.

Sure at the time it seemed like a good idea and tim fans loved that he was so badass and respected, but in the long run, it has just made him less interesting and the most vanilla of the robins, which is a bad place to be when you are not even the first robin.

Tim Drake should have stayed as the normal robin, the everyman, sure quite not as capable as the others, but as a side effect of that, he has a normal life. He is the spiderman of the family, the one most attached to reality, who has to juggle that with the job.

It would give him something unique and make him different, since Dick the circus boy, Jason the street kid, and Damian the raised to be an assassin, all can't even be considered anything close to normal. Plus it could be used to make him better as undercover.

Tim and Damian rivalry could be further enhanced by this, as he doubts the guy, who wastes his time living a normal life, could beat him. Only to learn yes he can and maybe there is something to having a life outside the job.

>>149738698
I wuoldnt say so

>>149731306
This is why none of the fan suggestions to fix Tim work. All of them boil down to giving him somebody else's hand-me-downs or changing his name as if that will do anything.

>>149735757
Yes, Tim being designed to be Robin eternal screwed him up.

>>149733513
But how do you feel about the wings?

>>149730971 (OP)
Tim should become a Batman who works with the Justice League and does all the detective/science work while Bruce stays in Gotham.

>>149732417
This. It's the only thing that worked for him when he couldn't be Robin. Just use that costume and not the New 52 version.

>>149730971 (OP)
Why can’t Tim and Jason have adventures like Bruce did during the Legend of the Dark Knight days?

>>149733125
>naming himself after his stepdad's favorite show
That's just sad.

>>149740821
Too gay.

>>149733309
Serious answer? No, Tim doesn't have anything you can really explore or delve into. 90s and 00s Tim comics spent so much time making him the normal Robin that they forgot to give him any neat concepts, and all of the weird writers with plenty of out there ideas never want to touch Tim in the first place..

>>149730971 (OP)
Tim is doomed to be Robin forever, he's the one that's least able to outgrow the name because he has nearly zero traits to differentiate himself aside from being the "smart one", which somehow posits that there's a single robin that's not far smarter than the average person because of Bruce. That's why they should just stick with Red Robin and own the fact he's not going to get a different identity that somewhat sticks like Dick, Jason and Stephanie have, flip flopping doesn't help him at all

>they should name Tim after a restaurant again
Look, we already know Tim Drake is a faggy bottom who loves getting eaten out, but naming him after a burger place is pushing it, no? You don't see anyone suggesting he change his superhero name to Flamingo or Rimmer.

Does anything cool happen in the Dixon run they can mine from if they want to give Tim a new purpose, or is it just all slice of life capeshit?

There is no progression.They ruined Tim making him a faggot and it's over. He was my favorite Robin. As if years of new 52 wasnt enough, they had to do this. Why not ruin Duke, a newer character or make a new gay Robin? He already have 20000 Bat-like characters, another one wouldn't be an issue.

>>149741892
>stepdad
You mean adopted ?

>>149741980
And there isnt a single robin that isnt quippy, or edgy...

>>149733270
>RedWing
She's already a thing. Future Titan from the 90s who was revealed to be from an alternate earth in Zero Hour.
Her main universe version should now be old enough to be a Teen Titan, so I hope we see her soon.

>>149743018
I don't think anyone remembers this character.

>>149731306
>is another symptom of having no fucking clue
Let's be real, capeshit readers just want to read and self-insert as their fave saving the day. Tim's "problem" is that either Dick (and Damian on a lesser extend) are filling that wish-fullfillment for him atm, and DC is seemingly not interested to give a self-contained book that isn't about Tim being a lgbt character. DC got a clue of what they are doing and in Tim's case, his seat is taken so he is warming the bench.
>>149732913
>spoiler
I think it all boils down to Dixion saying he wrote Tim like a good jewish boy or something.

>>149732913
Being catholic would fit pretty well with the character these days since it would give a believable reason why he's gay now.

>>149746125
Most gays are atheist or have their own gay churches.

>>149736765
>Send Tim into the army and fight for the Veteran character from the Willingham run.
lmao that arc was a fucking mess
>see ackshually the reason Batman doesn't kill is because he's not legally sanctioned, if he was he'd go all GWOT on Gotham!
not that Dixon strayed from politics, but he had the tact to not go as far as something like a War on Terror arc in the Batman sidekick book.

>>149746621
>Source: my ass
It's like pretending you can't be raised as a catholic and become atheist later in your life, or vice versa.

>>149730971 (OP)
Tim should have become Ted's successor as [Color] Beetle.

I think this could actually play into Tim's story, though--the feeling that he's stagnant and no longer really growing where he is. I mean, sure, he's learned that he's somewhere on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, but maybe that's not enough.

I think that what Tim needs is something between a pilgrimage and a vacation. Maybe he can travel the world like Bruce did, but deliberately not where Bruce went, solving local problems in every issue, honing his skills without access to the Bat-network, off-grid.

Maybe he meets with some of the characters we haven't seen in a while, like Nightrunner and the other Batman-inspired characters, where he learns about why they joined the fight themselves, and he can acquire some of their skills for himself.

Anyway, 6-12 issues later, Tim returns to Gotham with a tan and a renewed purpose, having finally found himself as [insert new identity here] that finally feels RIGHT to him.

>>149748097
Maybe

>>149730971 (OP)
Timmy

>>149730971 (OP)
meh
still better than Drake tho

>>149750632
>shit name
>shit costume
>shit reason for using it
It's honestly kinda amazing how bad of an identity Drake was, I really wonder if anyone at DC actually thought it was going to work.

>>149733125
I guess you won't like my suggestion of Tim becoming a Kabuki Twin...

All I know is that he shouldn't just be Robin again, talk about character regression.

>>149733309
The problem is that they designed Tim with multiple outs so they could simply retire him if they wanted a new Robin, instead of killing him off like they did Jason. Then later writers got rid of all those outs to make him generic and get rid of everything that actually did set him apart as Robin, because they wanted an "iconic" Robin that ticks all the checklist boxes on what they think pop culture says a Robin "should be." Give him his family back. Give him his love interest back. Let him retire and move on to something like criminology and be a supporting character.
If they're not going to do that then stop falling into the trap of Robin being just a sidekick as if that's supposed to be a bad thing. Let him being the solid dependable right hand to do everything Batman doesn't. Oh wait, that would imply Batgod can't do everything so they can't have that either.

>>149752574
>Give him his love interest back.
He already has a love interest.

>>149736633
>best bros
Yeah...best bros.

>>149730971 (OP)
GRIFFITH!

>>149731219
>Gay
Not anymore, just Grim.

>>149750632
Why brown?

>>149755655
cause some ducks are brown

>>149747064
It's a unique path to take a Batman character.
At least, it was up till Rucka's Batwoman existed. Bruce and Dick are a lot of things, but they're not military.

>>149756921
Was it after a duck?

>>149732978
Good, they can both be gay together

>>149758832
It's named after drakes, which are ducks, so yes.

>>149730971 (OP)
They'll have to repair the damage done to the character first. Personally, I'd like Tim to have a Detective Drake public persona but still maintain masked identity like what they did with Moon Knight with Mr Knight some years back. Maybe throw in Cass and Steph as his business partners.

>>149730971 (OP)
So even Batman has Char Clones.

>>149759193
What?

>>149752425
>still no long hair like back in Red Robin
DC doesn't know what Timfags want.

>>149760152
We've known that for a long time.

>make Tim gay
>no hot fanservice scenes
What's the fucking point then? He took his shirt off more when he was straight.

>>149731219
GOTEEM

>>149761467
Bring back To

>>149760152
>DC doesn't know what Timfags want.
This became even more painfully obvious than it already was when they had him start smoking pole and didn't even entertain the idea of letting him fuck Connor.

>>149763107
I want Tim to put himself out of his misery.

>>149749500
Good post. Detective world adventure sounds cool.

sick suit need's the hat.

>>149764226
forgot to respond it was meant for this post
>>149733540

>>149735546
>That's homophobic
Get over it, nerd.
>>149732638
>I mean, he's popular still.
To nerds, not casuals. Meaning he's not. Damian's more popular these days. Same with Jason. Dick will always be THE Robin.

>>149730971 (OP)
I always thought being Red Robin suited him. Damian's most likely gonna be the default Robin for the foreseeable future and Tim doesn't have anything unique about him that's a logical step from being Robin so him just being Robin again but grown fits. He has no connection to the Gray Ghost identity, his most notable traits are being the detective Robin and a faggot and afaik there isn't any threads in the mythos he could step into. So just lean on him being a grown Robin that's focused on crime solving. Maybe give him Slam Bradley or other neglected Batfam members like Duke as a Watson figure.

>>149765077
DC turned Robin into something you grow out of. Tim's inability to move beyond Robin, keeping it as some sort of safety blanket, makes him look like a loser and a manchild. DC's even begun to acknowledge it in universe, like >>149764624 showed.
He needs to do something else.

>>149733157
>i think red x fits the same stuff that red robin did in canon
It doesn't, hon.

red x just feels so to tim unrelated and stupid

>>149766258
I mean id defintely say it does lol
>edgy pre-existing identity associated with "bad robin"
>which he can use to investigate bruces dissaperence/team up with the loa without "comrpomising"
>can then work as him trying to redeem said name
Like that's the function of red robin in the reborn era lol. And look its good, but i think red x avoids the biggest pitfall.
>>149765077
I mean, damian's not being used in the main book, tim is. The thing is that you just cant do the classical robin dynamic with damian. Tim is getting a bit too old for it too mind you. Or well too "smart" i guess.
>>149764564
Causals, real casuals, dont even know damian. They at most know dick.

>>149765349
>DC turned Robin into something you grow out of.
Honestly if they're going to keep that mentality then they should just retire Robin completely and give new identities to Tim and Damian. But they won't because they know Robin is a recognizable and marketable IP, which is the only thing they care about. They don't care that DC of the 80s wanted to get rid of Robin altogether which is why Nightwing was created, otherwise Dick would still be the one and only Robin to this very day.

>>149766512
I do like flamebird for damian too ngl. And i do think really bruce should have a new robin. (Maps/Carrie?).

>>149766564
>And i do think really bruce should have a new robin
No, if Robin is something a character is supposed to grow out of then they should just cut the meandering around, retire Robin completely, and just introduce the new character with a new identity from the start.

>>149766595
Eh idk, i think regardless of whom, it is a necessary part for the bat-dynamic. But that is thinking of it as a contious comic.

>>149765349
>>149765077
Sadly, DC has not been able to replicate the success of turning Dick into Nightwing or Jason into Red Hood with Tim.

>>149766789
Its more of a thing where red robin worked in that specific context, but then they did a reboot and kept it.

And how much jason even works as red hood narratively is a question, given...the even bigger lack of direction. It is a cool name, that fits the pattern of nightwing's well.

>>149765077
>Damian's most likely gonna be the default Robin
That's not what is happening, at all. Damian's golden days are also behind him.

>>149767021
If anything DC is swinging back to using Dick as the default Robin.
Over the past few years, between World's Finest, Batman and Robin: Year One, Robin & Batman, and The Last Halloween, we've gotten more Dick Robin comics than any of the legacy Robins.

>>149731210
tpbp

>>149731351
Mckay’s moon knight is absolutely dreadful.

>>149766445
>I mean id defintely say it does
Your opinion, hon.
>edgy pre-existing identity associated with "bad robin"
Jason exists. Red X would just step on his toes.
>They at most know dick.
And Jason thanks to Under the Red Hood and Arkham Knight making him look cool to them. The comics don't matter. They're as disposable as they've always been, now just overpriced.

>>149763107
>make Tim gay
>don't pair him with the guy everybody ships him with
How?

>>149733309
Notice all the people wanting him to be characters he's never interacted with like Gray Ghost or Red X. Tim has zero lore of his own beyond dating blonde bimbos like Steph and Bernard.

>>149732417
I never understood why the RR run when out of it's way to mock the costume for no reason.. Specially when every artist they had made it look good.

>>149770644
They just like making fun of Tim.

>>149730971 (OP)
Make him The Owl.

>>149770593
To put it simply, stupidity. For a more elaborate answer Meghan Fitzmartin. Whatever reason it may have been wanted Tim to get with Bernard of all characters. Plus editorial from the Bat and Super offices likely would've shot down the idea of pairing Conner and Tim together anyway. Even if they are a duo with great chemistry. The editors are always finicky about pairing members of those families off. Meanwhile Tom Taylor decided to make Jon Kent bisexual to distinguish him from Clark. Cause he didn't want "another straight white saviour". Thus creating the perfect storm of neither side getting what they wanted in the end.

Titans of tomorrow evil bat Tim is my favorite version of "evil batman".
DC should use him like the Batfamily's Reverse-Flash and have him be a time traveling nuisance they have to deal from time to time. Just kill, retire or make present day Tim Joker Jr.

>>149771328
Super Editorials almost let Visaggio turn Conner into Connie

>>149769315
Yep Its my opinion. and ill commission it :)

I am saying within reborn? That's what im saying lol.

There's different types of casual. Most casuals dont play the games or watch the animated films, they just view the live action ones. If we're talking people who see animation stuff, tim and damian both are in those. They'll prefer jason, sure, but that's not "casual" fans per say
>>149770634
I mean he has lore, just that most of it is tied to batman again. Same with damian.

>>149771409
I thought Visaggio said they turned that idea down rather quickly, understandably so.

>>149771564
Well, Damian has the whole League of Shadows thing at least, that's why whenever futures don't have him as Batman, he's usually leading a reformed League, sometimes as Ibn al Xu'ffasch.

>>149771940
Also, for another identity he could always take the name Heretic, as he is a heretic from the league. Damian has lore and options that Tim doesn't.

>>149766445
>I mean, damian's not being used in the main book, tim is. The thing is that you just cant do the classical robin dynamic with damian. Tim is getting a bit too old for it too mind you. Or well too "smart" i guess.
I always find this idea dumb, that damian can't work as bruce's robin, because they never use him as bruce's robin.

Don't ya see the problem there. That we know he doesn't work, because DCs never tries.

Like the way people talk, you would think there is a long history of damian being bruce's robin and failing, to prove he can't work. But really how often has damian actually been bruce's robin. Especially as you say in the man book.

It would be what a small handful of times.

With Morrison he was mostly with Dick, Snyder didn't really use him too busy pushing his OCs Duke and Harper Row. King was a mess. Zdarsky was clearly a Tim Fanboy.

That is the real reason, I imagine Tim is being put in the main books recently is that he has nothing else to do and 90s nostalgia. See the Zdarsky run, which put down every other robin, often in dumb ways to praise Tim.

>>149730971 (OP)
best robin, and dc hates him. why?

>>149772836
90s was about updating everything to better fit the culture of the time, while the current mandate is to make everything as generic and "iconic" as possible to sell as brand names. Since he doesn't have his own brand name, they don't care about him, and made him generic by getting rid of everything that made him stand out.

>>149772930
To be fair, the updates were mediocre, too obsessed with power levels, and propped up the new by tearing down the old. Of course they're floundering in the current day. See Tim Drake, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke
Could always be worse, at least they found a measure of success for a decade or so. Not like they got the Jared Stevens treatment.

>>149772753
>you would think there is a long history of damian being bruce's robin and failing, to prove he can't work. But really how often has damian actually been bruce's robin.
That's the problem tho, it has been over fifteen years since he became Robin and you can count on your fingertips how many good stories or any story at all he has by Batman's side.
Batman and Robin are supposed to be doing the whole "bad cop, good cop" thing, with Dick it worked because the roles were reversed, but with Bruce is just "bad cop, bad cop". They just don't have chemistry together, I literally cannot think of a single panel of them just hanging out together having fun, besides the occasional "I love you son I love you daddy goo goo gaga" bs

>>149771940
I mean, jason ALSO has that, and even tim to an extent. And that just means son of the bat lol. Its not really a name.
>>149772753
Heretic is the only other one that doesnt play into a bat thing, and even then, he's playing into his giant clone who wears a bat costume lol.

We can argue if its chicken or egg, but the reality is that the two have been bataman-robin since 2011 and had a whole book dedicated to them, and they never managed to make them work as batman and robin. Because damian ALREADY has a partner he works with (Dick). Also snyder didnt use him cause damian was dead for most of his run, cause morrison killed him.

I mean, its because the writers want to have a batman/robin contrast. The current run has him wearing all red to contrast with blue batman. And tim is easier to write as a contrasting precense. Compared to damian where its bad cop and worse cop.
>>149773528
His best stories are either solo, are about him NOT working with bruce, or with dick specifically. Bad cop worse cop id say.

>>149773113
Tim has the benefit of having a pretty large fanbase, even if he's floundering. The other two you mentioned don't.

>>149774143
I'd argue the other Robins' connections to the League aren't as strong as Damian's, since Damian was literally born with the intention of taking over the League.
Most Robins could take over the League really, it's just that it's kind of expected for Damian, that's why so many possible futures have him as the leader, even yours >>149759099
>Its not really a name.
Well, it's more of a title really, just like Ra's al Ghul.

>>149774560
I mean, its overlap, but jason is really only around due to them just saying.

yeah i just view that as a name more than title. Like person name not superhero name.

>>149730971 (OP)
Congratulations. You make to look Drake even more gay.

>>149774732
it looks pretty good. it's not even flamboyant looking.

>>149774669
The other Robins do have some ties to the League thanks to their involvement with Batman, but come on man, Damian was literally born into it and raised to one day take over, he's the ultimate nepo baby.
>i just view that as a name more than title
What are names but titles really? Like, Bruce apparently means "the willowlands", and Cassandra "the one who shines and excels over men".
And it's not like Ra's al Ghul is even his actual name anyway, that is also just a title, his real name is somehow still unknown after all this time.

>>149771607
She got far along in the process for them to publish the back ups she wrote where Kon dyed his hair and was dating Miss Martian

>>149775237
Oh damian has more relatively speaking, just saying.

I dont really consider either of those titles ngl.
Yeah but he's used it for centuries, at some point it becomes your real name. And thank god its lost ngl.

Can the last 30-40 or so years of Batman and co publication get deleted from history please?

>>149775858
Not relatively lmao, literally, Damian either wouldn't exist or he'd be a fundamentally different character without the League. Jason on the other hand was originally brought back thanks to Superboy Prime, he could've been a revived edgy anti-hero without the League, Damian just couldn't BE at all.
>at some point it becomes your real name
It is his name now, but it still started as a title that Ra's took over his own name, it's never been his real name, it's always just been a replacement.
Also, let's be real, they'll inevitably reveal his name at some point, that's a story waiting to happen.

>>149772753
>DCs never tries.
Damian is not a new-comer anymore and had plenty book as Robin working with Batman, whenever it's Dick or Bruce. DC tried more with him than with Jason, in fact. You just comparing him to Tim who dominated the market for a decade until he became the second most shoved-in Robin after Dick.

Never read a single comic with Tim in it but I love his Red Robin suit so i say give the boy that cool ass suit

>>149777586
You drew this? Not bad.

Idk man... Tim is pretty gae.

>>149777634
yea :3 thank you

>>149730971 (OP)
So wait... That's Tim Drake?