Thread 149738852

Flash Thompson as Toxin, yes or no?

>>149738852 (OP)
is Toxin the sluttiest symbiote?

>>149738852 (OP)
I can dig it

>>149738852 (OP)
Fine.

>>149738892
his gradaddy gets passed around like an std

>>149738852 (OP)
It's what he should have been anyway. Agent Venom was never going to please old school Venom fans who like the monster aesthetic, and Anti-Venom has always been dumb and convoluted/contrived BOTH times Anti-Venom was generated

>>149738852 (OP)
>the cat symbiote thing referred to Venom as it's "father"
Isn't gender something of a misnomer for symbiotes? They reproduce aesexually and take on the traits of thier hosts, do they not?

>>149738892
Toxin's original host was murdered in a gutter, please understand

Is there a name for characters like Flash where they start out as normal civilians but end up becoming bonafide super heroes and it sticks?

>>149738919
Jesus, you werent kidding. A goddam *gorilla*?!

Symbiote is a creature, they do not have whatever costume design you would gladly sacrifice your OC to yell at me in a mortal disagreement attempt for the depicted disgust you call spidery

>>149738960
>>149738960
>Is there a name for characters like Flash where they start out as normal civilians but end up becoming bonafide super heroes and it sticks?
Shit on a wall?

>>149738852 (OP)
Yes, give all of Peter's bullies powers and make them bully both his personas. Paul will be next.

>>149739245
>Yes, give all of Peter's bullies powers and make them bully both his personas.
Flash used to have Venom and hasn't been a bully in years. The army really took his legs right out from under him and humbled him a bit.

>>149739292
Too soon!

Fuck off. Bring back Pat.

>>149738852 (OP)
I think I like this more than Agent Anti-Venom

But he didn't do anything cool with it during the fight

>>149738852 (OP)
Since it's temporary I'm fine with it but symbiotes really need to pick a host and stay with them. I'm tired of them getting passed around.

>>149739213
It was established in the early Venom era how he worked though

A. The first time we saw the symbiote, it was mimicking Spider-Man's aesthetic so we know it does that

B. The first time we saw Venom as a more monstrous visage, it was when it bonded to Eddie Brock and at that point, was still just like a bulky black Spidey with a creepy grin to showcase it was a living organism

C. When Venom/Eddie did quickly become more alien looking and creature-like, it was never really said whether it took that form because it was mirroring how Eddie felt (which was my headcanon as a kid, it looked all crazy because he was) or whether that was just the default look of the "symbiote race" fully revealed

D. Even back then, the symbiote was a shapeshifter, it much more often than today was shown turning into normal clothes on Brock, turning invisible, etc

>>149738960
>Is there a name for characters like Flash where they start out as normal civilians but end up becoming bonafide super heroes

I don't know maybe wannabe Power Rangers. The only other one I can think of is carol ferris as star sapphire and both are generic removable powers.

>>149739443
symbiotes are the experimental college girls of the marvel universe. they will never stop hopping from cock to cock.

>>149739073
Because venom's personality is molded overtime each time it jumps hosts, how many different gorillas would it have to bond with for it to become full gorilla?

Agent VenoToxin!

>>149738939
Culturally male now. The concept drifted a lot over time from being an "alien costume".

>>149739536
The exact moment the symbiote became a "person" so to speak was the storyline where Eddie sold it, and Angelo got it leading to Gargan getting it.

I always hated that so much, removed all the creep factor and mystique from it, and now it's fucking worse because they just literally make it able to fully take humanoid shape and just like hold the host inside it when it wants, like a living bio mech suit rather than a slimey living costume

>>149738852 (OP)
What happened to his anti-venom?

>>149739637
He sealed it within his body and became Toxin because he couldn't be seen helping Venom and the others escape. He made it clear that he has no intention of keeping Toxin and will go back to Anti-Venom afterwards.

>>149739637
It is still in his bloodstream. He pulled it back so Toxin can live on him temporary because Toxin was dying.

Sure, whatever. I'm not reading this faggot shit anyway.

>>149738852 (OP)
Doesn't All-Slop Venom already have a thread

>>149739481
Eight. Eight gorillas

>>149740108
Yeah, but I don't give a shit about that comic. I just want to talk about Flash.

>>149738852 (OP)
Nah. He's better off as Anti-Venom. King in Black Anti-Venom.

>>149738852 (OP)
Of all the things going on in Spider-man this is so far down my list of things to care about I don't care if Flash somehow became Scream.

>>149738852 (OP)
Just let him be friends with Peter again. It’s fucking hiring having him be nothing more than a d list character that’s just a design that’s always forced to be in limbo.

>>149740486
Literally what is the appeal of Anti-Venom? Please tell me because nobody who likes it ever does.

For one thing it's not a symbiote, it's like a "faux symbiote" that is just some weird chemical, either made by magic or in a lab, that mimics a symbiote but isn't living or sentient at all, so it's essentially just a suit made of moving cum

>>149740735
AAV was only cool when it was Broke going all Televangelist. So far for Flash the specific symbiote has only been a means to an end.

>>149740771
That stuff was cool just because we got a version of psycho, anti-heroic Eddie Brock back though, not because of the Anti-Venom concept itself

>>149738960
Status promotion/character demotion
>>149738931
Maybe Flash should get mania and be called Maniac, Andi should get Agony and have a spider symbol with it, Donna should come back and be Scream, and Toxin could be given back to a revived Patrick. That seems like the optimal combination. Agent Toxin does look fine and is an alright concept althoughbeit.
But yeah for the time being with shit writers and the continuity all fucked up, Flash being a regular ass dude is needed at this point. Damn the supporting cast has been hollowed out.
>>149739577
On one hand I think it having a character is cool. But it shouldn't be used as much. It should only surface during subtle moments or when there's a good reason.
Also yes even beyond the shitty fucking stuff they're doing with MJ and the tired tranny hate stuff on /co/ (I don't like them but let's assume we all agree with that), this whole shit with Dylan and her just being immediately able to do all the stuff Eddie did is bullshit and I would rather the symbiote be limited to the host rather than just becoming OP. Sometimes horror does rely on limits of the monster/murderer being sometimes seen and taken advantage of. Gives the story more depth and could lead to body horror like in the form of injuries.

>>149740906
Agree, and She-Venom is just all around better and more interesting than "girl is wrapped up in venom who looks male still", what's the fucking point if we don't get a new design? We all know the appeal of women characters taking male mantles is to see what it'd look like if they were a girl

And even if you were gonna go this route, they're still doing it wrong. MJ actually has a lot of history with the symbiote, she was traumatized by Venom and hated it so much she made Peter get rid of his regular cloth black suit. If you were gonna do it any which way, the angle would be for MJ to go nuts and just fully embrace being this horrifying monster, but the things they've done like giving it Wonder Woman gold breastplates, makes it seem more noble than monster, and that's just dumb. Marvel is so fucking dumb these days

>>149740735
>Literally what is the appeal of Anti-Venom?
Blade but white.

>>149740735
>For one thing it's not a symbiote, it's like a "faux symbiote" that is just some weird chemical, either made by magic or in a lab, that mimics a symbiote but isn't living or sentient at all

That. That's the appeal. You just answered your own question without even realizing it.

>>149740735
>"what's the appeal?"
>proceeds to list out the appeal

>>149741162
But the whole appeal of symbiote characters is the dynamic between the symbiote and the host

If Anti-Venom doesn't have its own personality then it's just a liquid suit
It might as well be an Iron Man armor or nanomesh Vibranium weave

>>149738960
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AscendedExtra

>>149741445
Those have a harder texture. Ignore Superior Iron Man being liquid-like.

>>149738852 (OP)
That was only to escape. He can keep the Anti-Venom and Toxin at the same time.
I think the new Toxin will either be Dylan or Robbie.
Or dare I say it…….Paul.

>>149738852 (OP)
Swap the placement kf red and make it bit more gooey/organic but otherwise its a great spider armor with mid shoes

>>149741750
It'd be great if they gave symbiotes to Luke and Madame Masque

Find a way to keep them in the book

>>149740735
Its like venom to spider man but to symbiotes but It was cooler with eddie
They should modify it on flash,give him a cape or something cause white agent venom is boring

>>149739073
Venom in a zoo is a horror show
Imagine if he gets into chimp exhibit with komodo dragons not to mention arachnids and other weird bugs
He could make a pelican horrific due to giant throat pouch,Its a small dragon with a beak thats can fit a wheel barrow and is full of teeth

>>149741852
At the rate of developments, that seems like a bad idea. Even if you assume the later is just a random encounter and gets whatever ripped out of her the same issue, that is more characters to juggle.

>>149741750
Toxin honestly is the symbiote that should bond to Peter. They have a matching color scheme and Toxin is historically the least evil symbiote.

>>149738852 (OP)
Venom. Carnage. All other symbiotes should not exist. So no to Toxin.

>>149740906
no give Mania back to Andi

>>149741445
Going by your logic kinda doesn't work for the Carnage symbiote because it basically has no personality. I guess you'll then say that Carnage sucks for that reason but I dunno, I guess I'm fine with some character's symbiotes not being as much of a presence.
>>149741120
They're doing like below the bare minimum of characterization. Like MJ is just like a millennial slightly uncomfortable with the symbiote and being like, "Well ok I guess we'll do this. Fine," and that's it. MJ should be a little more uncomfortable, argue with the symbiote, and be a lot more hesitant. They're at least acknowledging she isn't too close to the symbiote. But the whole, "she isn't close to the symbiote yet, so that's why she isn't changing into symbiote fashion clothes or looking like She-Venom" is such bullshit and arbitrary logic. Jordan White said that in the column. It's solely because they don't want MJ to have any popularity and that's it. It's the fucking living costume. Venom all of a sudden got used to Eddie? What about fucking Flash?

What sucks is they had that dumbass Jackpot stuff beforehand and that just gives them the excuse to not try as hard with MJ getting used to being a hero. I mean we don't need a whole long ass arc, but a little more is needed. Spider-Island was only like a couple of days or a week right? Also yeah MJ overcompensating with trying to get used to symbiote and then like losing control is another natural scene to take place. It might still happen but man...She-VenoMJ. Goddamn we need it and the awful symbol to go away.
>>149742527
Or we can just clone Venom or Mania and have both of them back, lol. But yeah I dunno I just thought that combo was the best possible one. I really want Patrick back with Toxin. It had great potential. Man why did Remender do that...

>>149738852 (OP)
No, and Toxin is going to hook up with Dylan soon.

>>149738852 (OP)
Just bring Pat back, goddamnit.
Why is it in the universe where nobody seems to stay dead Pat had to be the one to permadie?

>>149743331
No one with an attachment to him is a writer at Marvel to bring him back, and since we are in jumpy symbiotes, he can't just return to life by appearing in a group shot.

>>149742768
>Like MJ is just like a millennial slightly uncomfortable with the symbiote and being like, "Well ok I guess we'll do this. Fine," and that's it. MJ should be a little more uncomfortable, argue with the symbiote, and be a lot more hesitant. They're at least acknowledging she isn't too close to the symbiote. But the whole, "she isn't close to the symbiote yet, so that's why she isn't changing into symbiote fashion clothes or looking like She-Venom" is such bullshit and arbitrary logic

Meanwhile, how she reacted to Venom before even when saving her life lol

>>149743331
The thing about Pat is he never left a mark, and his biggest moment (the comic he premiered in along with Toxin) was notoriously horrible for symbiote fans because it ignored previous comics so much both in characterization and continuity for everyone involved it felt like a one off elseworlds thing

>>149743645
I forgot about that kek. Venom bad touch.
I dunno about Pat never leaving a mark. The Toxin symbiote essentially being Nero from DMC 5 is cool and Patrick himself being a cop who has to teach it morals like Spider-Man would is interesting. Spidey will probably never bond to one as long as he did because that's old ground and he doesn't like them. I like that aspect. He can learn to respect them but he won't want one on him again if he can help it.
The actual dialogue and scenarios are more interesting in his mini-series from what I recall. The Venom vs. Carnage series is kinda bad in that aspect with Venom for some reason trying to reason with Carnage and I think some dumb plot details happening. Spidey spares Cletus again right? It's been a while. But yeah that's dumb too.
The shit surrounding Toxin sucks but that mini-series really introduces and makes the character much more interesting from a starting point that never materialized. I think that's why anons still want him back. The mystery and potential is attractive.

>>149738852 (OP)
Its a temporary solution, so who cares? Toxin will probably bond to Dylan anyway.

>>149743728
It's been years since I read it but yeah Venom I remember being OOC, Black Cat totally was, she was important to multiple Venom and Carnage stories and she literally like joins the plot like "what the fuck is a symbiote Peter? Who are these guys what's going on lolol"

Like bro, she was probably the fourth most important character of Maximum Carnage after Spidey, Venom, and Carnage

As for Pat I don't mind him, the whole story seemed like an excuse to build up him and Toxin while never having read any of the symbiote stories. He was fine, the rest wasn't. But he's pretty low in terms of awareness, him being in the Sony movies might have boosted his status but he got thrown away as a cliffnote for a Knull based story and Xenophague lol

>>149738852 (OP)
that's not what toxin looked like the last time i looked
don't get me wrong, it's better, but.. cmon

>>149739577
seriously.
the symbiote should be able to move on its own, sure, but only in an oozing fashion, that feels super laborious. he'd much RATHER have a host to move around in, the same way we'd rather have a horse.
>>149739481
you're missing the real point
are gorillas now able to get around spider-sense?

>>149744004
let's be real
it's very Felicia to just.. have gone through Maximum Carnage and never once ask or learn what a symbiote is.
The mistake would only be if, once it was explained, she didn't go "Ohhh those guys, okay, so sonic weapons or fire, gotcha."

>>149744004
Oh damn I didn't know that happened in the movie. What a shame but not surprising. They just needed names and designs to fill out the deaths. What I did see though on youtube is that all the symbiote jobbers were FUCKING CONFORMING to their hosts bodies like a COSTUME WOULD. Fuck Marvel.
Anyway, if you haven't read the Toxin mini-series. I remember it was good. Yeah he won't get any attention but he should. They just need to add a weakness to him so the fact that he's stronger than Carnage and Venom and has both their abilities doesn't become too OP.

>>149738852 (OP)
Toxin would probably the best way to go. It's still making the best out of a shit situation, as there's nothing that could match the dynamic of Flash and Venom back in the Remender run (and no way to return there without going full What If), but I'd dig Flash becoming a rogue agent out of this and having to help mend Toxin's heart (because in this scenario, he can't rejoin with Bren for some reason and gets upset over all the hosts he loses n' shit) while they're laying low and doing street stuff again

>>149744063
The problem is, she wasn't a cameo in the stories mentioned she was a key player in the era who had a personal relationship with Venom from the moment he beat her ass and said exposed Peters info, to her putting that aside to basically be number two of "Team Venom" in Maximum Carnage before they went and recruited Morbius, and Cloak and Dagger

>>149742768
>Going by your logic kinda doesn't work for the Carnage symbiote because it basically has no personality
Not him, but there's an ongoing monthly right the fuck now that is literally all about Carnage manipulating, tempting, and forcing its host to do shit.

>>149744180
Yeah well for the past 30 years that hasn't been the case and the writer could just end up revealing it was Cletus manipulating it the whole time. Also from a quick glance, it just seems like it has the same exact personality as Cletus.

>>149738939
>>149739536

>>149744180
>>149744550
>>149742768
Carnage is different though, because the reason the symbiote and Cletus were "one" was done specifically so he could be unique to Venom, who's catchphrase used to be "We are Venom", letting you know they were two as one

Carnage didn't have this because Cletus' psycho ass mindbroke his symbiote the moment he got it so that it would be completely submissive to him and basically just become an extension of his own personality, which is how it acts

>>149738852 (OP)
Toxin should bond with Ben Riley and be his conscience.

>>149738852 (OP)
Damn, they still use Toxin?

>>149738852 (OP)
I got the impression this is very temporary.

But also, I think Flash's Anti-Venom symbiote lack of sentient is a flawed concept.

>>149738852 (OP)
jesus christ, does literally every character have to become a spider faggot at some point?

>>149738852 (OP)
They should have left him Anti-Venom, if they weren't gonna let him keep Venom. I dunno why these retards have to keep on fucking with this shit.

>>149745318
He's still Anti-Venom, he's suppressing it to bond with Toxin temporarily so Toxin doesn't die.

>>149745258
Have JJJ and Aunt May been venom-ized yet

>>149745496
You mean Aunty-Venom?

>>149744550
>it just seems like it has the same exact personality as Cletus
That's the whole point of Carnage. Like >>149744801 says, the Carnage symbiote was so immediately and thoroughly imprinted upon by Cletus that it basically became a second one of him, but that's an important distinction: it's never been lacking in personality, it just usually literally wants the exact same thing as Cletus the entire time as a result.

This isn't anything new either. "Past 30 years?" What about 1996's Web of Carnage, and Ben Reilly fighting the Carnage symbiote after it attached to him and pushed him to kill.

>>149745531
Ben is small fish

Why did MJ have absolutely nothing to say about Flash doing this shit? Since when was she aware of this?

I just want Flash to get a book again.

>>149743331
Anytime Carnage kills and takes the codex, that host is dead dead.

>>149738852 (OP)
the spikes look stupid

>>149743331
>>149743645
>>149743728
At this point I think the best anyone can hope regarding Pat is to have him be an uncle Ben figure for Toxin. A permanently dead parent figure that the molds the character into who he is now and who they can use as a way to center themselves when adrift.
What made Toxin different originally was that he bonded with a moral upstanding guy did not enjoy the symbiosis at all, but still ended up reluctantly teaching the symbiote about life, however he did so as a separate being, essentially raising him (there were some parallels with Pat's baby being born at around the same time making him a first time parent, so the themes were hardly subtle). This all led to Toxin being the most independant and opinionated symbiote at the time, before it became popular for all symbiotes to behave like that.

Ironically Flash is kind of the perfect host for someone like Toxin. Unfortunately for him, the run makes it clear it's temporary.

>>149746681
>Unfortunately for him, the run makes it clear it's temporary.
Unfortunately for both of them, it's painfully obvious nobody at Marvel knows what the fuck they're doing, especially in regards to symbiotes. So they're just spinning the wheels.

>>149738852 (OP)
They'll have to kill a lot of these symbiotes eventually, right?

>>149746806
They already did the symbiote culling and brought them back and added more. By 2040s, there will probably be an entire nation of symbiote hosts.

>>149746806
>>149746891
The only symbiotes really relevant in the last decade were venom, Carnage, toxin, and sleeper

>>149747148
Relevant doesn't mean existing. Mutants are the most blatant case.

>>149738852 (OP)
He should be agent venom again. Space knight saga was awful.

>>149747148
Venom is the only relevant one here stop coping

>>149747865
nta but I think it's fair to say Carnage is relevant, he's not turbo mainstream like Venom where even people who don't read comics or consume capeshit games/movies/etc have heard about it by exposure, but Carnage has shown up in enough cartoons, videogames, even the bad Sony movies, and comics that people remotely familiar with spiderman/marvel are likely to know who Carnage is, even if they've never heard of literal whos like Sleeper or Anti-Venom

>>149745531
>>149744801
Yes I know all that. I guess I should've been more careful about my wording. What I meant to say is that the Carnage symbiote just being a copy of Cletus has kinda been the same as it having no personality itself for 30 years. Yes it did bond to Ben and that town in Carnage USA and infect people with brainwashing them into following the same ideas as Cletus. So yes in-universe when reading it has a personality. But not much of one and not significant enough to distinguish the two. There's only like probably a few instances of them fighting like during Norman's time. But even then it just wants Cletus's way of doing things.
That's all fine and what I expect out of Carnage.
Yet I don't understand why the original anon is still mad at Anti-Venom for not having a personality? The Carnage symbiote is just a redundant surface level layer added onto Cletus. I think it basically has no personality for the reader to latch onto or recognize as different from Cletus. It's just an excuse for the writer to have the symbiote brainwash or help Cletus escape or change the pov. That's why I brought it up. I mean I dunno if Anti-Venom should have it but the logic here doesn't add up to me.

>>149746891
>By 2040s, there will probably be an entire nation of symbiote hosts.
krakoa but for symbiotes would be funny