How come despite being funded by millions of dollars, all these animated shows feel so fucking cheap? It's like no one can be assed to get good quality animation anymore.

Tweening animation is an inherently lesser form of art, but it's very difficult to convince producers and animators to disregard methods that save them time and money.
We're more likely to see the technology improve it's ability to mimic traditional than we are to see people putting more human effort into commercial art, simply because in the modern age of distractions nobody wants to dedicate a majority of their waking hours to redrawing the same visually boring scene endlessly, and because of that scarcity the cost to hire the rare someone with talent who does is too high. Musical skills on the whole are also declining because nobody wants to spend that time practicing

>>149780193
>because of that scarcity the cost to hire the rare someone with talent who does is too high
But the talent is not rare. We see them everyday over the internet.

Too much greed in the industry saying that animation should be done at $1 a day.

>>149780281
net animators who do shitposts and sakuga are drawing things that are fun to draw
It is not fun to draw thousands of frames of unchanging vaguely realistically proportioned characters, none of them would cut it on the front lines in Korea on a Fox show and it's generally not a quality of labor you'd wish on anyone due to the sheer motonony (regardless of paycheck)

>>149780193
Why can’t we just bring back outsourced overseas animation? That was considered cheap in the 90’s-2000’s, pretty much every mainstream animated television show was animated by Rough Draft Korea, did it become more expensive for them to animate or something? The only shows animated by Rough Draft Korea these days are beanmouth slop and longrunners like SpongeBob and The Simpsons cause their success gives them a higher budget. Americans are too fat and lazy to draw anything more than storyboards, backgrounds, and model sheets, stop animating in American studios ffs.

>>149780337
>net animators who do shitposts and sakuga are drawing things that are fun to draw
all cartoonists were like this. I come from the 90s era and was almost a cartoonist myself. was planning to join the industry and everything but thats when around the time everything started to suck due to cutting costs

>It is not fun to draw thousands of frames of unchanging vaguely realistically proportioned characters

Getting paid decently overrides that.

>>149780456
A lot of cost cutting happened to the point they went even cheaper. Eexecs dont realize there's a threshold where you can only get so cheap before the art suffers

>>149780456
Korean studios expected standard of quality has lowered to the point they will only accept suitably easy work, the first studio hired for Over the Garden Wall actually rejected it because the backgrounds lighting was too complex making the blending of character and bg "too hard", and that was over a decade ago.

>>149780103 (OP)
Because show business is a giant money laundering scheme for, well, heh, you know.

>>149780456
>Refuses to pay people decent wages
>"Americans are too fat and lazy"

Literally just corporate assholes trying to save a buck and making every excuse they can to do so.

King of the hill never had good animation in the first place.

All of you guys are wrong. The answer is because there is no profit in making a high budget cartoon with no way to recoup the costs.

It use to be that toy sales and commercials on TV would justify it. But with later generations moving onto live streaming, youtube, tiktok etc it would be financial suicide to make something super pretty that no one spends a dime on supporting.

Go ahead try it. You'll go bankrupt immediately.

>>149780551
who?

>>149780652
so the future of that model would basically be Arcane then?

>>149780652
The business model is retarded though, since there is no direct way for the consumer to financially support the show. They have to pay for the subscription service, and hope by watching the show their, the service somehow gets them money.

>>149780687
Arcane is an anomaly, and the only reason it exists is because it's literally meant to sell a video game that was already quite successful.

If Arcane was meant to be a stand alone IP with no video game clout to hide behind it would be seen as a disaster.

>>149780538
>Korean studios are now even worse than American studios in the 90s
How does this happen

>>149780739
And regardless of what its associated with or how it ended, Arcane was pretty successfull.

>>149780736
Streaming is successful for the same reason why Netflix killed Blockbuster in the late 00s/early 10s.

Consumers were content with gaining hundreds of movies/tv shows on demand instead of having to manually purchase or rent each copy.

It justified having more content in the long run but supporting individual cartoons or movies was clearly a no no.

Streaming fucked us more than we thought it would.

Japanese and Korean animators earn $4/hour, so they have to work 100 hours a week. So they get a lot of experience.

>>149780765
>And regardless of what its associated with or how it ended, Arcane was pretty successfull.

The company behind Arcane has a multi-billion dollar investor holding its hand. An indie studio that tried to create their own animation solo would not last without a successful crowdfunding campaign or merch sales to back it up.

We already have real examples of this and they still have to cut corners to survive.

>All kids shows are being forced to look like cheap beanmouth shit and all adult shows being forced to look like cheap Family Guy clones by executives
>Shows look like shit cause corporations are getting stingier and not giving them a higher budget.
>Tons of shows are getting axed off of streaming, all of CNs classic shows have been pushed off of Max and there’s only like 5 CN shows left on that streaming service. Streaming in general has an unstable environment.
>Everything is too oversanitized and executive controlled, they’re constantly trying to replicate the success of old shows.
>Tons of shows are getting lackluster reboots or revivals with significant downgrades in animation quality, all whilst original IPs are left to dry.
>Animators are getting fucked over in poor work environments with tight unfair deadlines.

What do you think will end our animation industry’s new slump?

Today's artists are just bad, good animation is a lost art at this point. Blame the people who let it become lost in the first place.
>>149780643
It was a perfectly fine limited animation series. John K approved and that guy has very particular standards.

>>149780103 (OP)
Most of american animation budget goes towards voice actors, and normies have no awareness of the animation issues we can easily see.

>>149780872
Ironically, AI. People don't want to hear that though.

>>149780765
Financially it wasn't. It was well-received but Riot doesn't consider it worth the investment. They have indicated that they want to keep making animated series, but they will be scaled down since they now know that Arcane-level investment doesn't pay back dividends no matter how popular and well reviewed it is.

>>149780872
either AI or the federal reserve gets shut down. if youre wondering what the reserve has to do with this

>inflation

>>149780945
>and normies have no awareness of the animation issues we can easily see.
They see it, they just been trained to tolerate it. Anyone can see how amateur they are compared to old stuff like Disney movies.

>>149780928
>Today's artists are just bad, good animation is a lost art at this point. Blame the people who let it become lost in the first place.

That's silly. Who do think is animating the big hollywood films at the box office?
Any artist would struggle animating a dead medium that costs a lot to produce while having little financial gains these days.

>>149780962
I think Arcane is shit and League is shit too, but they should realize dividends doesnt always have to be financial. but thats the problem with a lot of companies.

>>149780456
>outsourced overseas animation?
That's the source of the problem, retard. This shit isn't animated in America. The storyboards are but past that it's off to korea, canada, or the philippines

>>149781005
recently, india.

>>149780872
Smiling Friends being [as]'s new golden goose and Glitch Productions deal w Amazon seem to point the way that post-cable the gap between network show and the indie animation scene will be much less, and it'll probably lead to the next big wave of original stuff that hits with people. Bluey is luckily assuring some of today's small children will still have appetite for 2D when they are ready for TV-Y7 and PG aiming shows

>>149781012
Dear God

>>149781018
look at the credits of any recent cartoon you watch

>>149780643
I disagree, it had great animation and artwork, when it was cel animated anyway.

>>149780872
Streaming platforms are not profitable, so thinking that animation could somehow survive on streaming platforms when animation has always been a loss-leader for networks is a bit screwy. Western animation is basically dead because it's controlled by like 6 media conglomerates right now: Disney, Netflix, Amazon, Warner, Sony, and I think Paramount still does animation. And out of those, only Disney and Sony actually profit off animation at all, and even then not super reliably.

Amazon and Netflix occasionally produce well-received animated series, but as mentioned before, streaming isn't actually profitable.

>>149781030
that still shot alone is better than any frame in the new show

>>149781001
>I think Arcane is shit and League is shit too, but they should realize dividends doesnt always have to be financial. but thats the problem with a lot of companies.

It's Capitalism so they kinda do. The only reason they had that money to begin with to make Arcane is because everything else before it had healthy margins.
Intentionally burning money on vanity projects would upset shareholders, who would use their votes to get rid of the CEO until someone who can make massive
money is in power again.

I'm not saying this is morally or ethically right by the way, but you can't view cartoon production as being some kind of charity. Either you accept the sweatshop conditions or you do it yourself and go broke before the first episode.

>>149781043
Animation used to be profitable because they used to take risks merchandising new shows, instead of waiting until 4 years and 65 episodes like they do now (and even then a supposed hit like Big City Greens gets practically nothing from Disney, infamous for their crass commercialism).
But kids over toddler age aren't buying toys, and they've failed to realize in the US that the real money making demographic is teenagers and losers like they long have in Japan

>>149781017
>Bluey is luckily assuring some of today's small children will still have appetite for 2D

>Oh my god, a cheap looking rigged baby show will make sure kids are interested in 2D animation! OUR INDUSTRY IS SAVED!

That’s retarded, the baby shows I watched as a toddler were shit like Cyberchase and Arthur that had pretty decent animation. Rigged animation is ass, it looks cheap as shit, the only good examples of it I can think of are Paul Rudish Mickey and Wander Over Yonder. How’s about we feed kids good quality stuff that actually looks good.

>>149780997
Right, it's specifically 2D and not 3D that's dead. A shame because I prefer 2D.

>>149781075
>I'm not saying this is morally or ethically right by the way, but you can't view cartoon production as being some kind of charity.
But thats precisely what fueled cartoons in the first place. It's a vanity project always. You shouldnt expect anything back except the good will from people and having given them a good experience. The profits is a bonus. Always has been. Disney got away with it cause of the nature of tv at the time, and then their massive market of movies and VHS sales. Looney Tunes cause of their big network deal and merch.

>>149780652
METv and Svengoolie are beating the big three airing reruns of classics cartoons. Mr Magoo turned based so it's not the cartoon, but Hank doesn't go full boomer.

I miss when toons were just toons. For a guy who is pretty good at drawing, is it even feasible to make cartoons the good old fashion way, or does it take up too much time/resources? Anyone recommend any good youtube cartoons that may be hidden gems? I just miss wacky classic toons. Give me that good ole' guy that turns into a wolf and wacks a wooden chair over his head to the point of it exploding as his pupils turn to massive throbbing hearts. I swear, the demand is there, but for some reason it doesn't exist in the modern day artists.

>>149781125
>You shouldnt expect anything back except the good will from people and having given them a good experience. The profits is a bonus. Always has been.
Why are animation fans so delusional?

>>149781167
I use to do animation, faggot.

>>149781089
I'm not the kind of fan who'd sit down and watch it but Bluey is a creator driven show written by one guy, it's more artistically legitimate by far than Blues Clues or Dora the Explorer which are both nearing 30 years old not to mention all the crap since then. A show's impact can be net positive even if they on 2020s public grant funds couldn't fully nudge it into being a masterpiece (but maybe that studio will make one at some point, with all the millions they've made)

>>149781187
Post your work

>>149781198
no cause you'll be able to track me down really easily

>>149781125
>But thats precisely what fueled cartoons in the first place. It's a vanity project always. You shouldnt expect anything back except the good will from people and having given them a good experience. The profits is a bonus. Always has been. Disney got away with it cause of the nature of tv at the time, and then their massive market of movies and VHS sales. Looney Tunes cause of their big network deal and merch.

I got a bridge to sell you if you think these cartoons never had any profit incentive in mind.
There was always an ulterior motive. People bitch when artists are (rightfully) stiffed from losing money on a commission. But making an 8 minute animation reel by hand that takes several months and teams of people to ink each frame is supposedly free? Come on.

>>149781225
It's a matter of how far that motive goes into money versus passion. Walt Disney wanted to make money but he also wanted to make cartoons and a mascot people loved. If he cared about money, there's many other industries he could have went in that were far easier.

>>149781156
Wacky cartoonists these days are regulated to the modern SpongeBob mines cause no other cartoon wants to be wacky, fluid, or expressive for budgetary reasons. IIRC Dylan King, a board artist on modern SpongeBob, once said that tons of animators he knows struggle to find jobs with their artstyles.

We do have a couple of wacky indie toons, but unfortunately it seems like people prefer loreshit, but who knows, a renaissance might happen for them eventually.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MuSVSuLHdes

>>149781246
>Le passion

>>149781254
Yes.

>>149781246
>If he cared about money, there's many other industries he could have went in that were far easier.
Which he did. He literally opened a fucking theme park and used all those mascots you just described.

>>149781252
Thanks for the link, anon. That looks hilarious as shit. That is definitely sad regarding artists can't find jobs, though. Hopefully we absolutely do get that renaissance.

>>149780551
>>149780682
Me.

>>149781017
One benefit of indie animation is that you can do whatever you want with zero executive meddling. Not a big fan of Digital Circus but to give credit where credit is due it doesn’t feel like a show you’d see on modern Disney Channel cause of how oversanitized everything is. Sure it’s status as adult animation is debatable but it does have the type of mature content a modern PG show should ideally have.

>>149780103 (OP)
Most of it looked fine apart from that awkward attempt at a handheld shot in the plane lavatory and a couple of lazy background bits here and there.

>>149780928
>John K approved
Huh, where did he say this? I'm sort of surprised, but I guess I shouldn't be since the original run of King of the Hill really did look quite good.

>>149780281
Different anon
I got two theories

There being more available talent that is readily exploitable is an issue
its hard to make your best work when deadlines are tighter, and executives feel you’re more replaceable than ever
They can always find someone cheaper

But also, talent is scattered all over too, so instead of the most talented people in the industry centralizing in a handful of companies. A lot of them are going to dozens of other studios, working in gaming, working freelance/contractors, or doing their own projects instead of developing their skills in a major company to develop their skills for that workflow
Talented people still need to work well with a team, and not all teams run the same. Only way to learn how to work with a team is through the experience with them and that can’t happen overnight

>>149781620
John K is surprisingly a fan of Mike Judges work, they even made a UFC promo of Hank Hill and George Liquor

>>149781620
Wouldn't have done this otherwise https://vimeo.com/187722817

>>149780625
Do you think that these media companies have infinite money or something? Labor is by far the biggest cost in 2D animation, either you find a way to do it more efficiently or very simply it doesn't get done.
Let's say 10 billion gets spent on animation to make 100 shows at 100 mil a pop. If people get "paid decently" (you know, whatever you think that is) to make instead shows at 1 bil a pop, not only will less shows be made because it's more expensive, but less shows will be made because far less than 10 billion will be spent on animation because every project will be a much, much larger risk. You'll get like 2 shows for 2 billion rather than 100 for 10 billion. And those 2 shows, since they required so much investment, will likely be extremely conservative in their subject matter. Not politically, but in terms of taking creative risks.

>>149781721
Funny how you guys are talking about John K. I've seen a lot of talk about him lately. On the weekends, I like to wake up and make coffee and breakfast for my family while I play ren and stimpy/powdered toast man. Some anons said the other day that his art is regressing in quality. What do you guys think? I kinda agree. I wish he would do cartoons again, but the guy is getting old.

>>149780652

Why is anime still incredibly succesful, then?

Oh, it's because it's made to appeal to an actual existing audience.
Retards, particularly executives, love nothing more than deliberately killing their product's appeal as a result of some trend (i.e. DEI), driving away their audience, then simply assume some magical societal shift occured.

>>149782071
this

>>149780103 (OP)
Fox animated sitcom style shows never looked good or moved smoothly. That's not new.

And the budget goes to the voice actors and guest stars.

>>149780456
Sure, but outsourced frame-by-frame animation is still more expensive than outsourced tweening animation

>>149780456
>>149780478
Really incredibly cheap shows taught the executives and studios that you can cut the art budget down to almost nothing and audiences will still perfectly accept it as long as it's funny.

South Park, Adventure Time, Archer, nearly all Adult Swim shows and lots of others taught the lesson that it can look like fucking garbage but audiences will accept that garbage, but it has to be funny. Make it funny and stick figures will bring in revenue!

>>149782338
>South Park, Adventure Time, Archer, nearly all Adult Swim shows and lots of others taught the lesson that it can look like fucking garbage but audiences will accept that garbage, but it has to be funny. Make it funny and stick figures will bring in revenue!
half of them arent even funny and they usually have maybe one or two funny moments or episodes. Most of it was clearly made for the weed smoking crowd who just turns their brain off.

>>149780625
Yeah, but that's kind of a cornerstone of half the problems in the US right now in any industry. The giants like corporations, government, or just rich investors will fuck over a segment of society and ruin their livelihoods, and then blame the victims for being lazy entitled little shits that whine and complain too much.

Don't like having to pay $1850+ a series of extra fees for a single bedroom apartment? Fuck you! you whiny entitled little shit!
Don't like being laid off at the last 3 jobs in a row? Quit whining you fat lazy entitle bastard looking for handouts!

There is absolutely no stability of any kind anywhere and fuck you for saying the first thing about it.

>>149782360
...that doesn't really matter at all. The only thing that matters is that they got ratings and make money for the studio. Who fucking cares about any other detail.

>>149782374
>There is absolutely no stability of any kind anywhere and fuck you for saying the first thing about it.

>>149782398
Not caring about the other details is the point of this thread.

>>149782338
That's a much older lesson going back to the late 1950s. Hanna Barbera also discovered and made a lot of statements that a show can have extremely limited movement and characters can be flat and lifeless so long as they have engaging personalities and are funny and entertaining to hear them speak.

It's how the industry switched from Bugs bunny and Disney to Flintstones and Scooby for about 20-25 years.
And it only really changed when 80s Toy Company shows had greater demands for better looking designs and more detail to better advertise their products. That had audiences getting used to nicer looking shows again.

>>149782023
John K will probably be dead before the decade ends, honestly it’s kinda a mindfuck how long ago it’s already been since the animation renaissance of the 90’s. Who Framed Roger Rabbit and The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse, the shows that arguably started the renaissance, are both gonna be 40 years old in a few years.

>>149782434
>and are funny and entertaining to hear them speak.
>
>It's how the industry switched from Bugs bunny and Disney to Flintstones and Scooby for about 20-25 years.

Irony that you bring those two shows up because thats when they started using those fake laugh tracks to appear funny

>>149782374
>there is absolutely no stability of any kind anywhere
People are literally richer than they ever have been, yes that includes millenials and zoomers, yes that accounts for inflation. One of these days you guys are going to have to wake up and realize you're in an online doomer death cult where your perception how bad things are is incredibly warped because you're hanging out with so many mentally ill people

>>149782374
You know, it's not the fact that they're doing it as much as the ridiculous angry reaction to it.

Universities and companies fucking you over is one thing, and people are mostly used to that and expect it to a pretty large degree. But the Boomer reaction of
>Fuck you and your avocado toast you whiny little shit!!!!!
To anyone ever voicing a complaint or trying to do anything about it, or even just stating that a bad thing like being laid off happened without any emotion in it, that is what gets people pissed off. Then it turns from souless situation to intentionally mean spirited button pushing one, that makes people personally angry.

People who locked in their 30 year mortgage before the housing crisis quadrupled prices across the board, having no idea that equal sized homes across the street are $700-800K thinking everyone is lazy and entitled for not being able to afford shit anymore being massively outspoken in their stupidity.

>>149782374
It has never EVER been easier to get a $100K a year job for doing literally nothing at all. Not just in the US but in world history, it is really REALLY FUCKING EASY to do now.

If you are not making at least $85K a year while posting right here then Yes, it is YOUR fault for not achieving what is fucking insanely easy to accomplish. Whining and bitching that other people who lifted themselves up and accomplished something with their lives is never going to make shit happen for you. So fuck off or actually get a job loser.

>>149782492
>People are literally richer than they ever have been,
No we arent. Meat, housing, water, energy are as expensive as ever, and are the only things that count toward stability. For those to be the things most people have trouble affording shows we aren't rich at all. In fact, we're poorer than ever cause the real wealth was stolen by the elite while they tricked everyone into spending with fake ass monopoly money.

I know this is a /co/ board but it all goes back to money. Every part of our life is because this menace. Occupy Wall Street needs to return, but this time people need to actually go do it in front of the Federal Reserve and Washington DC.

>>149782374
Because you are in a doomer cult that constantly tells you that you will fail and never get anywhere in life?
Which is true for pathetic NEETS sitting in their moms basement well into their mid 30s. Fucking anyone can make it today, you don't even need to leave your fucking house to make six figures any more. You just have to be anything but a whining bitch.

>>149782527
>If you are not making at least $85K a year while posting right here then Yes, it is YOUR fault for not achieving what is fucking insanely easy to accomplish. Whining and bitching that other people who lifted themselves up and accomplished something with their lives is never going to make shit happen for you. So fuck off or actually get a job loser.


None of that money makes you afford anything.

>The purchasing power of the average household has decreased significantly in terms of gold, as wages today are only about 41% of what they were in the 1950s when measured in gold ounces.

>>149782338
Yeah, a cartoon should be funny. No amount of money is going to make 2D animation look good now though. Look at the Amazing Digital Circus - an independent production, 3D, and better animated than any corporate-funded 2D cartoon in recent history. Got a ton of well-deserved popularity on account of that.
The ultra-cheap cartoons of the 60s completely blow away current 2D cartoons in terms of visuals. Hanna-Barbera's massive output, Rocky and Bullwinkle, the Charlie Brown specials. That new 2D cartoons can't even match those in quality shows that the issue is talent.

>>149782548
>we can all be rich too if we just kill all the rich people!!!

This is why you never accomplish anything, you're a fucking moron

>>149782611
>strawmanning right off the bat

Fuck off, retard. Leave the intellectual conversations to the smart people.

>>149782566
It's also pretty average these days.

What was stated earlier is true, most single bedroom apartments are floating near the $2K range. while also almost every single apartment building is owned by one of four major companies that set the rent price nationally. They also have rules like your rent must equal 1/3rd of your take home pay. Which for the average $1800 single bedroom apartment, means you need to be making about $70-75K a year. Just to qualify for a single bedroom apartment in nowhere Tennessee or South Carolina.

$85k a year is slightly above average now in 2025. Still cannot afford a house unless you want to go live in a rural nowhere.....miles away from any job. So you better get a sweet remote work gig if you want to own a home.

>>149782625
You politicized your bitching about people that have more money than you. Your political outlook in life ever evolved beyond toddler shit
>B-but that's not faaaaiiiiiir he gets to have two pieces of candy!!!!!
so grow up retard.

>>149782548
I don't know what else to say to you other than you are living a lie. A fuckton of consumer goods are much, much cheaper than they used to be. Yes, there's room for the essentials to be improved, but in general people just have much more money to spend on the essentials in the first place. People are much, much better off than they used to be.

>>149782659
The average single bedroom apartment price in tennessee and SC is nowhere near 2k.

>>149782659
>So you better get a sweet remote work gig if you want to own a home.
...which has never been easier to get in all of human history. all you have to do is land a skill and actually apply for one. It actually literally THAT easy. But you wold rather sit here and bitch instead and be a worthless NEET.

>>149782683
>A fuckton of consumer goods are much, much cheaper than they used to be.
Cheap chinese slop isn't goods. It's cheap toys that don't do anything for improving our lives.

The essentials are the first thing people need to afford then everything else comes after. People are forced to skip the essentials cause the prices are too high. This actually shows how much cheaper stuff like phones really are compared to houses, land, actual food and energy.

>>149782548
This is your brain on YouTube based libshit.

>>149782708
Dont listen to this middle class faggot anon. He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

>>149782731
Hey, faggot. Being anti banking was a democrat idea (and also an American revolution idea). Unfortunately, only Andrew Jackson and the founding fathers cared about that.

>>149782721
So instead of actual consumer goods sold in stores at affordable prices, you want fairy tale "Piece of Mind"

Whelp, that doesn't actually cost anything because you are wanting a shift in economics so you can have good feefees over whatever bullshit you invented in your own head.

>>149782721
>everything except meat, water, housing and energy is slop
You're living a lie, anon, and this is a coping mechanism. Get off the internet. It is legitimately poisoning your brain.

>>149782760
>actual consumer goods

Land, shelter, meat, organic vegetables, and cheap energy are actual goods.

>>149782771
>everything except meat, water, housing and energy is slop

Yes. Has been since the beginning of time.

>>149782783
Then I guess you better get off your expensive slop electronics and stop posting.

>>149782823
none of the slop is expensive.

>>149782071
>Why is anime still incredibly succesful, then?
Because they're made by literal slaves who are not interested in the concepts like unions or standards of living.

Not to mention you are overselling anime's actual production quality. They're at the same skill level as an old Scooby Doo cartoon which had minimal movement and recycled background shots.

>>149781853
>Let's say 10 billion gets spent on animation to make 100 shows at 100 mil a pop.

hire 100 Filipinos for 360k for 1 year. Fuck it, give them a raise, round it up to 500k. Just saved you 99.5 million. Need 2 years? Ok make the budget 1 million. saved you 99 million and 100 flips have employment for 2 years to make something profitable. There's so much bullshit in showbiz its fucking retarded.

>>149783302
>Because they're made by literal slaves who are not interested in the concepts like unions or standards of living.
No. It's cause the japanese are collective and believe in improving their own and their society. Something someone who lives around niggas wouldnt understand.

>>149781721
I think John K really loves Mike Judge for some unknown reason

>>149783346
How is working for below minimum wage meant to improve society? They're also working 60 to 80 hour shifts a week on anime.

By Western standards that is slavery.

>>149783442
Cause it's for the greater good. Again, if you never lived in a collective society, you wouldnt get it.

>>149783461
That's inefficient. It's like praising the work of a horse when a Lamborghini blows past it.

>>149783409
John K clearly has a weird thing for disapproving father figures

>>149780103 (OP)
Animators are lazy

>>149783302
>They're at the same skill level as an old Scooby Doo cartoon which had minimal movement and recycled background shots.
Uwotm8?

>>149783617
That's a pretty good 20 seconds of 8 fps animation. Most of the episode understandably won't look like that though.

>>149783696
Damn, I don't even think I can see the goalposts from here anymore.

>>149783617
Hanna-Barbera cartoons could do that too. In no way was it ever the standard.

>>149783821
If you think those two clips are comparable you might actually be retarded.
You could at the very least post something with some actual background animation.

>>149780471
They don’t hire guys who can draw anymore, and if someone told me they actually consider talent detrimental in a drone they want doing boring on-model computer art I wouldn’t be surprised

>>149783867
> background animation.
Lol.
Those scenes are still basic. Notice how all the good animation is focused on one character at a time? Now try several...

>>149783910
So I take it you won't post any.
No worries, it's about what I expected, I imagine you're too tech-illiterate to make your own webm anyways, even if it is piss-easy.

All of you are coping. Ugly jap toons are clearly superior to western animation.

>>149783961
It's all horse shit. Anime in general is produced on 2's. They do everything they can to avoid animating more frames per second.

>>149784041
Still waiting for you to post that impressive webm from HB that shows off their great animation.
I take it I'll be waiting awhile.

>>149784093
I made my point. Most anime has Scooby Doo tier movement. I'm talking the whole show, not some cherry picked examples.

>>149783302
>They're at the same skill level as an old Scooby Doo cartoon which had minimal movement and recycled background shots.
I think this is another issue with modern cartoons, the oldhats into them are genuinely delusional about the state of the modern cartoon industry and the quality of their competitors.

>>149783762
Scooby Doo also had its scenes of fast and frenetic animation, the chase sequences.

>>149784144
Your point was retarded because pretty much all animation makes use of recycled elements, you might as well just say all animation is shit.
>>149784173
I can't think of a single old SB chase sequence that wasn't just the characters running in a straight line with a recycled background.
That's not really comparable to the webm I posted, at all.

>>149782594
>Yeah, a cartoon should be funny.
Agreed.

>>149784210
>you might as well just say all animation is shit.

>>149784233
We're talking about tv shows where the purpose is to make the audience laugh.

Nigga it's King of the Hill not Prince of Egypt. I don't think the original animation was that spectacular IIRC. I watched it all pretty recently, like it's pretty good but I never really noticed the animation quality in particular. Moreso the art style and script.

>>149784454
KotH back when it was cel animated had a very nice color palette that I feel was somewhat lost in the later episodes.
This new show mostly just looks kind of cheap in general, which I guess is par for the course these days.

>>149784454
youre lying if you think the new show looks better

>>149780103 (OP)
Because the US television animation industry is bloated and overpriced. They have some of the most advanced animation technology, the highest paid salaries, and thousands of nork and taiwanese slaves; and this is all in service to producing the animation equivalent of B^U.
I'm not even shilling anime here, the west used to be at the top of its game and now we have million dollar budgets for television shows that look like ass but some indie animator on youtube can produce the same or more often better for pennies.

>>149781142
Based metv toons enjoyer

>>149784151

That or they just genuinely don't understand good animation when they see it.

They associate fluid animation and consistent shading as the ONLY litmus of quality, and literally cannot even recognise or interpret a sakuga sequence or what expertise goes into it.

>>149784454

I would rather have 6 episodes that look like Season 1 (lower aspect ratio, blurry quality and all) than a full season of "modern" animation.

>>149785008
6 episodes is a full season of cartoons these days

>>149785008
Hell season 13 of King of the Hill is animated better than the new episodes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0WvU3UBzWI
The problem isn't cel versus digital or money, 2D animation is just a zombified art.

Whenever people say anime is dead all I can do is laugh because they have no clue how bad the situation is with western animation

>>149785279
>hank hill goes into a unisex bathroom without saying a word
heh

>>149784665
It's not that noticeable to me. The first KotH episodes are actually kind of jank. Their mouths move kinda weird like the "Hank" in Beavis and Butthead... Especially the pilot episode obviously, though some of the "camerawork" in the scenes is inspired, like following the mosquito at the opening.

The new animation is better than that. That was just more "soulful" with more imaginative scenes etc, but the actual quality wasn't amazing.

>>149784454
>>149785570
That's just because you never saw the Bobby vs Clark Peters fight at 60 fps in 4k

>>149780103 (OP)
>It's like no one can be assed to get good quality animation anymore
Teen Titans Go does it some time.

>>149785861
god I hate that style so much

>>149785888
I liked the style from the older seasons more.

>>149783302
I would take over western ugly designs, cannot be the only one that always shit cheap designs such as Family Guy or Adventure Time

>>149781853
>Do you think that these media companies have infinite money or something?
They used to until wokeness came around and then they were willing to spend that "infinite" money on propaganda projects. On that note, how much money do you think "insert company here" is making on their back catalog? Nothing like getting passive income cause you made a show twenty years ago that's still in syndication on tv or licensed to a streaming platform.

The people who animated "Scooby Doo, where are you" must feel happy to keep getting residuals for the past 50 years....Oh wait, its only executives who are still profiting from that.

>>149786024
>wokeness
Retard alert. You're ignoring the profit motive system that requires more money to be made this quarter than last quarter along with network television trending downwards since the advent of youtube, social media, and the rise of popularity of video games.

>>149786255

>>149783302
Those characters were designed by a Japanese dude, surely that muddies the waters

>>149780103 (OP)
part of the problem is that animation has always been an unprofitable money sink* unless you either go as cheap as possible or only do super short form stuff like commercials, it just has too many moving parts compared to basically any other medium for film/television making that are much easier to cut corners in ways that don't impair the final product in quite an obvious way as it would for animation

*mind you this is only taking into account the animation by itself as a product, not any potential merchandising or advertising money(which is where the real profit in animation lies)

>>149784041
Western animation is produced on 2's lol. Anime is produced on 3's or 4's iirc.

>>149786674
so what youre saying is that this is a symptom of the riskless landscape we live in

>>149786255
That's nice. Taco supreme.

>>149780103 (OP)
Voice Actors get paid too much.

>>149786755
In King of the Hill's case, the writers and animators are the voice actors

I just miss the gorgeous background art, that’s the real crime of the reboot.

>>149786807
>signing your own cheque
Haha surely nothing seedy going on there.

>>149785861
There seems to be a point in every modern Simpsons episode now where the animators are allowed to actually animate, usually just a single character, and they make sure to go hard on it. Though it can seem jarring when it does happen

>>149785861
But when it does it's to show off.
>"LOOK, WE'RE CAPABLE OF FLUID ANIMATION! STOP BITCHING AND KEEP EATING THE SLOP!"

>>149786755
Not helping is the fact that people keep glazing voice actors for some reason over the people who actually bring cartoons to life. People like Tom Kenny and Tara Strong are arguably more well-known than artists like let’s say CH Greenblat. When Hotel Transylvania released more people saw it as an Adam Sandler film all cause the MC was voiced by him, most normies probably weren’t even aware that it was more of a Genndy Tartakovsky film.

This isn’t just an animation problem but a problem with media in general, normies typically pay more attention to actors than directors and showrunners.

>>149780103 (OP)
The insane thing to me is that Futurama's Hulu episodes look normal compared to this. The character posing and expressions aren't too expressive, but they actually move normally due to real drawings and the expression ARE better than this. I just started watching the Futurama eps and having seen KoTH first, damn. The KoTH animation is just a complete disgrace. But it's obviously because they have more anatomical qualities and people just plain don't want to pay to animate that anymore. Same for Beavis and Butthead.

>>149786870
Its cause Disney alumni are stuck in Simpsons limbo, they are to modern Simpsons what Spumco-inspired animators are to NuBob. They can’t find jobs anywhere else because no other show has the budget to allow for that kind of style. Modern Simpsons and SpongeBob only have animation on that kind of level because their success gives them a higher budget and more artistic freedom, any new shows aren’t given that treatment and have no choice but to be rigged slop.

>>149780551

>>149786755
To be fair, literally everyone in California is paid too much because California is so fucking expensive that "a modest middle class wage" literally everywhere else in the country is basically poverty over there.
Surprisingly, constantly bragging about your quick access from mountains to the sea while consolidating monopolies on entertainment and tech as both industries are taking off and attracting workers who are desperate for work does stuff to raise your property values a bit too high

>>149780928
>John K approved
And that matters... Why?

>>149781087
it was a combination of merchandise and selling ad-space. I would be curious to see if animation would be more viable if ads became more embedded in the streaming model.

>>149787998
>more viable if ads became more embedded in the streaming model.
FUCK. ADS.

>>149787001
KotH imo looks worse than standard rigged fare like Rick and Morty. Perhaps it's because R&M was always rigged and the animation in that show has actually improved since the first season.
Funny enough, according to some animators, KotH and the P&F revival are technically hand drawn, they just reuse a bunch of vectors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dlRGB7tEEk

>>149780478
>Execs dont care there's a threshold where you can only get so cheap before the art suffers
ftfy

>>149780103 (OP)
In the commentary track for the Simpsons casino episode one of the crew remarks that the old art and animation style is so much more expressive than the current one (episode was released in 1993, commentary was released in 2004) and Groening seems to agree with them before some other guy on the track who sounds like a corporate tool angrily shouts over them saying something like "WELL THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO DO THAT KIND OF ANIMATION ARE DEAD".

This is nothing new and people in the industry have known all about it for decades.

Just feels like the quality control wasn't there. This is supposed to be a serious emotional moment but I can't buy it if this picture looks like it was drawn in 3 minutes.

>>149788518
>THAT IS THAT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO DO THAT KIND OF ANIMATION ARE DEAD

That's cause execs live in their own world where they only see what they're surrounded by. Literally have golden spoons in their mouths.

>>149787970
He's an animator who can explain why he likes and doesn't like certain cartoons. I can understand where he's coming from even if I don't always agree with his judgments. https://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/2007/11/hanna-barberas-missed-opportunities.html is about the good qualities of early HB More relevant is the post he made about Mike Judge in particular https://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/2007/12/mike-judge-and-humanity.html
>Mike Judge has this mysterious quality of sincere, open minded truthfulness and he sees what's really funny about actual humanity versus phony popular trends- he makes fun of when humans lie to us about who we are. He speaks to real people.
>When I watch King of The hill, I'm pretty sure I can tell which scenes are Mike unfiltered and which are teams of writers trying to evoke fake pathos. I'm caught off guard by Mike's jokes and laugh really loud, then it quickly switches to someone trying to manipulate me to cry over some writer's contrivance. It's a weird combination of elements.

>>149788364
>t. Exec on co kek

The animation in the new King of the Hill is so bad that I honestly believe Mike Judge could do a better job animating it himself

>>149786808
Late 90s/early 2000s KotH had a genuinely nice aesthetic in a lot of ways, and the reboot lacks it pretty much entirely.

>>149787931
>California is so fucking expensive that "a modest middle class wage" literally everywhere else in the country is basically poverty over there.
That's starting to change thanks to the awful economy and greedy private equity buying up housing we've had over the last 15 years. Now even places like Florida are becoming prohibitively expensive.

>>149782338
>audiences will still perfectly accept it as long as it's funny.
I've recently accepted that normies don't care about animation. If it's good they'll think it's a bonus but otherwise they don't give a shit.

>>149783617
my favorite part is when the objects start sliding around the background 2 seconds in

>>149780103 (OP)
I thought the revival looked decent, just took a little getting used to is all...

>>149780103 (OP)
Because all that money is put into advertising and shell companies owned by the companies financing it and not the actual production.

>>149786674
There was a 3rd option, which was the being a big publicity for a toy company to sell merch to justify the cost, the problem however is that kids stopped playing with toys around the start of the 21th century and they were replaced with vidya consoles and iPhones
This means the only realistic way to capitalize in animation nowadays is to make good vidya tie-in from it. The problem, however, is that none of these companies produce anything worthy to base a game from, what kid is gonna buy a game just from lame looking and ugly calarts characters such as SU or Adventure Time? Multiversus which was yet another big failure also comes to mind.

>>149796585
>There was a 3rd option, which was the being a big publicity for a toy company to sell merch to justify the cost
I specifically excluded merchandising or advertising revenue when making that post for a reason, it's an outside factor that muddies the discussion

>>149796616
True, in that case I do agree, animation is too much of a money sink

skill issue

>>149796626
>True, in that case I do agree, animation is too much of a money sink
on it's own yes, hence why companies making it need to approach it from the position of it either being a loss leader(for the aforementioned merchandising and advertising revenue) or for prestige purposes

mind you this mostly applies to an animated work's initial release, since animation usually ages better(or at least slower)* than equivalent live action works they also tend to have a longer half-life when it comes to rereleasing them and thus can end up profitable in the long run, like how many of the films Disney released between Snow White and Cinderella didn't do very well in their initial theatrical runs but through later rereleases they became profitable(and similarly in later years putting them on TV or Home Video)

*well mostly, sometimes when a new style emerges or animation method emerges you have early works in those not age so well(like a lot of early CGI TV shows) but those tend to be exceptions rather than the rule

>>149786901
Cartoon characters are their voices. I'm sorry, anon, I know you don't want to hear that, but it's true. Cartoon characters are their voices.

>>149780103 (OP)
I think it's just the ongoing crushing effect of the "minimum viable product" mentality plaguing the entertainment industry, but especially animation.

The people in charge of funding these shows think there is no point in making an animated series that has significantly better animation than other shows, or even the show its rebooting. They don't think the market cares about quality, so why should they bother? I've talked to people who think that King of the Hill always had "bad animation" and that the new show is "no different". I don't blame them since they probably don't have such an interest in animation as I do, and don't recognise what the original show did right or why the new one feels so off.

The absolute cheapness of these shows is just so evident in every aspect of them. The voice acting is bad because nobody cares and they don't want to pay for multiple reads, the sound effect mixing is terrible and borderline non-existent (seriously, watch a modern "adult" animation series and see how often there are weird, stale pauses between characters speaking or missing ambient sound effects leading to dead air), the writing is weak and lacking, and of course the animation is rigged and tweened on the lowest budget they can afford while still being recognisable as the shows they are meant to be.

I think people subconsciously reject these shows because of the outstanding lack of quality, but don't have the understanding of what its getting wrong so find themselves unable to properly articulate why they didn't like it other than a general sense of it "being bad".

"Why even bother?" is the prevailing sentimentality behind these shows, and the King of the Hill reboot is no different.

>>149796652
skill issue?

>>149780103 (OP)
King of the hill was never about its animation quality. It uses what it needs. Thats why producers like it. Its easy on their pocketbook with good returns. Are you expecting a gundam missile circus?

>>149786317
>wordswordswords
>not a single mention of jews
nice try kike

>>149780103 (OP)
The average income for an animator is 80k with some making as low as 45k and as much as 140k. The company probably spends 25% more, matching various benefits like 401k contributions.

If we assume 40 animators per studio, at 80k, that is 3.2million a year. If we add that 25%, you have 4 mill. And that is just the animation team. Thats not touching all the bosses making six figures. Or the people who do voices or the music. Or your writers.

America has tried various things to get that number down. At the start some of the men were paid like shit. Then they unioned. Then they got women and paid them less. Then you had smaller teams and you saw all those Hanna Barbara animation tricks to keep the work low like having a static cell and just animating a mouth. Or panning a camera across a background. Anything to avoid paying for animation. Finally they just started to outsource it to japan and Korea where things were still like the 1930s here and a lot of the animators got paid like shit and they dumped a lot of cheap shit work on women. During the great economic boom it was also easy to get loans to start projects so there was a surplus of studios, keeping the bargaining power of animators low. Things did improve some what but not like America. The great economic boom popped, it was harder to get loans and animators were paid more, making japan and eventually Korea more expensive to outsource to.

There have been various tricks to get thenpeice down. Like opening studios in France or Australia to take advantage of subsidies but that eventually peters out too.

Merchandise and toy sales can offset some of this but that is either illegal now or companies just find it to be in bad taste. Or the margins on toys just aren't high enough to pay for the episodes.

>>149780652
Blame YouTube parents

All the parents I know cut cable and let their kids watch YouTube for cartoons and Disney plus for movies.

I don't think they pay attention to what their kids are watching because the YouTube stuff is usually butchered eps from cable and people coloring or playing with the toys

>>149797860
It feels silly though that cost of entry is seen as a hurdle too big to try a properly animated TV cartoon when the upshot on something hitting like a Spongebob or a Bluey or a Rick and Morty could easily make the investment worth it, but it really just does boil down to animation and drawing quality aren't seen as a selling point to the demographics our studios are stuck in their ways on marketing to, unlike the audience that anime has settled on.
Shows for teenagers are definitely on the rise in the western market though and if they keep hitting like TADC or Hazbin we could see attitudes shift about this leading to the next wave of distinct stuff

>>149797860
Goddamn, AI is inevitable in animation isn't it
It's not even about if it looks good (it absolutely won't) but studios will do anything to save a buck

>>149797860
80USD in Australia dollars is 122AUD
Do aussies make 122k average?
outsourcing 80% of the work makes a production cost far less

>>149781246
Walt Disney notoriously operated a sweatshop. Whatever love he spread for the medium, his cult of personality was used to convince people they felt lucky to work there. He all but abandoned the studio after his artists went on strike for better wages.

He truly did more than owners do today by reinvesting the profits in genuine innovation but let’s be realistic, he was a businessman.

>>149781087
Kids over toddler age still are buying toys, just not official ones, official ones are too expensive for them so they just cheap out by buying bootleg shit from flea markets or mall kiosks

If they have any luck merchandising it’d be among teenagers, the kinds of Hot Topic teens who watch gayshit like Hazbin Hotel or Digital Circus always spend their money on T shirts, pins, as well as toys they can decorate their room with.

People say kids these days act too much like teens when it’s actually kinda the vice versa when you think about it.

>>149798080
This is exactly why it was so common for shows to be animated in overseas studios like Rough Draft Korea. During King of the Hills original run they literally chose that studio cause it was far cheaper. For some reason people now animate in American studios like Titmouse, what’s going on with Korean animators.

>>149784151
>I think this is another issue with modern cartoons, the oldhats into them are genuinely delusional about the state of the modern cartoon industry and the quality of their competitors.

Anon, not that person but you are lying to yourself if you dont think anime uses hanna Barbara level tricks to budget art labor. It is so predictable that you can tell that a big fight is coming by the number of tricks you see in the episodes before the big fight. He'll, often they follow up the really expensive episode with a flash back or summary episode where they just have characters talk over old scenes. And if theh need some merch money they will do a beach episode so theh can sell merch with the characters in swimsuits.

And its been this way for forever. Macross was doing this shit.

>>149787931
>To be fair, literally everyone in California is paid too much because California is so fucking expensive that "a modest middle class wage" literally everywhere else in the country is basically poverty over there

True. I know three animators and they think I'm a failure for getting paid $80k for a programming in Mississippi despite each of them making 45 to 80k themselves. They're comparing my Mississippi salary to the cost of living and average programmer pay in California.

People dont realize I'd need to make 120k to 140k to keep my same standard of living in California if only because rent and increased gas and food prices

>>149795259
>Because all that money is put into advertising and shell companies owned by the companies financing it and not the actual production.

That's some of it but not new. Live action always had a problem with contracting things out to companies owned by people at the top and then throwing the cash back to themselves. Its why you never want a contract where you get a %of the profit. The studio will just increase the bills from the contract companies until the project no longer shows a profit

>>149796585
>There was a 3rd option, which was the being a big publicity for a toy company to sell merch to justify the cost, the problem however is that kids stopped playing with toys around the start of the 21th century and they were replaced with vidya consoles and iPhones

Kids want toys. The toys are just more expensive and kids are no longer allowed to walk down to the store with some cash. Parents are with them all the time and won't let them get expensive stuff.

Kids still want toys though. They literally watch YouTube of unboxings and adults playing with the toys

>>149797989
>just does boil down to animation and drawing quality aren't seen as a selling point

Part of this is just thst the people over the check book are stupid.

Japan has figured out the game in this regard. You do a lot of lore with characters talking or even just thinking over static shots. Maybe you animate the eyes and mouth. Add in some pans of a nice hand painted background. Do this over and over until you get to the animation circus. The big show. Maybe its a mecha fight or a cute anime girl skateboarding or dancing. And then you make merch of the characters in that high priced scene. Bingo bingo, you make money. Especially with model kits where a machine pops out the parts and you dont even pay someone to assemble them.

Its really ironic and funny that the white world has not figured this out yet. Maybe its because the US doesnt have the same really cheap to make and high mark up products to connect with the small sections of great animation.

Lets use Rick and morty for example. If that show was made in japan, the part with planetina going nuts with have been a extraordinary bit of animation and the show owners would have had plaentina products on the shelf ready to be sold.

And yet we got 3 seconds of animation and 2 t-shirts

>>149780103 (OP)
>hulu show
>millions of dollars
These people are being paid in sandwiches. Any actual money is going into the pockets of the VAs to get them to come back. Or whoever is left of the KotH cast.

>>149798554
CoL absolutely destroys relative salaries.

>>149798787
>Its really ironic and funny that the white world has not figured this out yet.
Most behind these shows are jewish, not white. That should tell you enough.

>>149780103 (OP)
Because 99% of the budget is for voice actors. Look the flat shading and lack of shadows of the metallic bucket

>>149799072
Cartoons and television in general were at their peak when they were run by Jews. You think they wouldn't figure out how to make more money?

>>149799230
They were at their peak when they had a mix of jews and whites. NOw they are ran mainly by jews, which is why we're in the shithole that we're in.

>>149799281
That table shows that is not the case.

>>149799230
>Cartoons and television in general were at their peak when they were run by Jews.
>2011
>peak

>>149799301
The numbers were even higher before then.

>>149799072
>Most behind these shows are jewish, not white. That should tell you enough.

That doesnt make it any better. They claim to love money and dont realize that they can use small segments of excellent animation to sell merchandise.

The Japanese are so much smarter about this shit, its unreal. Use a small segment of wonderful animation and tie that to a model kit that costs dollars to make and can be sold for 25 to 75 usd OR cheap stationary and expansive statues of the main woman of the cast. Get tons of liscencing deals to slap images of the cast on snacks and other little 1 and 2 dollar products.

Oh and get this, japan subsidizes books and cds. Its part of how they afford to make so many small runs of obscure cos and art books. So they can pay to get a banger opening song and then another banger of a song to play over the animation circus then tax payers subsidize producing the CD with those very songs on them. They also subsidize the $45 art book for each season of the show.

And dont get me started on Manga where they keep costs low by keeping in black and white on cheap paper with an art team of 1 to 5 people.

I dont know if American companies are just stupid and dont realize they can do all this and instead just make a blanket command of "make this as cheap as possible" or if American creative teams just straight of refuse to build all these financial decisions into making a show. I could see both.

Because if America did ahit like this, the 25th episode of Bonkers would have an amazing car chase, animated like lupin or porco rosso and there would be a model kit, toy and snacks with the image of bonkers in a cop car on the shelf the day the episode airs.

Goof Troop would have had Roxanna, the slut and Roxanna's friend as part of the main cast and they would have leaned into Peg's curves even more with lots of products of the 4 of them. There would have been beach episodes with Peg's tits and ass bouncing.

>>149799292
That table means nothing. Jews switch between white and jewish when they feel like it.

>>149799350
I'll give you a redpill.

Jews HATE japan for being more culturally inline with animation. They hate that people watch and buy anime more than their western slop. That's why they are attacking japan right now culturally trying to break it all up and ban their stuff.

>>149799359
The typical Jewish person is a subcategory of white as defined by the US government https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html
>White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

>>149799533
The US government considers both jews and Arabs white because it allows them to see Jesus as white.

Like for real real. Google it. There was a court case with an Arab about discrimination and it came down to the judge not wanting to admit Jesus wasnt white. So he ruled Arabs and jews were white instead.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_v._United_States

>>149799602
holy kek

>>149799602
Why are Americans so mentally ill?

>>149799602
what race obsession does to a country

>>149800257
just as planned by the jews. keep us divided by race to make us ignore them stealing our money

guess thats the end then

>>149780103 (OP)
>being funded by millions of dollars, all these animated shows feel so fucking cheap?
I was born in 2000 and I had my parents pay my way through animation school. There is no way in goddamn hell that i'm actually going to work hard for those millions. Why the fuck should I? We don't do that anymore. Are you goddamn serious? You pay, we take. That's how it goes and i'm not letting a pipsqueak like you take away or undermine what this generation worked hard for. Get the hell out of my 4chan. You're insulting and completely on crack.

>>149802332
dude shut up

>>149782492
Home owner rates?

>>149799230
The only thing I can see with this table is that white dudes created the less appealing cartoons in the 90's and caused that only weirdos and brown people latched on it enough to want to became animators.

>>149782760
NTA, but its 'Peace of mind', you disingenuous thirdie. Peace. As in having your mind in such a state that it is peaceful.

>>149782771
He's not living a lie. We just need to take a brick to the boomers' retirements and pension schemes and keep making it untenable for corporate to operate on anything but investment money by virtue of sales being unable to sustain their business models. The entire thing is already falling apart, all people have to do is sit back and watch.

>>149782492
You sound like the guy that was rapped by Grok. Probably even had the same double chin.

>>149782527
>It has never EVER been easier to get a $100K a year job for doing literally nothing at all
tell me about these magic jobs

>>149782492
>People are literally richer than they ever have been

>>149780103 (OP)
The money's not going to animation, it's going to paying voice actors.

>>149803802
They should cut costs by having the artists/animators be voice actors, tons of shows would cut costs in the past by being board driven so they save money by not having to hire writers.

>>149780739
Is that why the other show made by that same studio flopped?

>>149780103 (OP)
That animation ain't right

What's kimcartoons new domain so I can watch the new season? I swear they change that shit every 3 seconds.

>>149780456
Because they don't see that because they cut costs on X that they will never cut costs on Y. The idea is to cut costs as much as possible at every stage all the time.

Producers want the bare minimum viable product. The anomation looking good has not entered their mind once and it will never enter their mind. They don't care.

The only way animation will ever look good again is if tech can mimic traditional style animation for next to no cost or effort.

>>149803894
Did john K really hate writers because he wanted to cut 300,000 of labor from the episodes?

>>149780103 (OP)
Because all that money goes to the voice actors and writers.

>>149807138
but why

>>149782492
>People are literally richer than they ever have been
Yeah, when you don't adjust for inflation.
When you do, you'll see that the rich have gotten richer in America since the 90's while the middle and lower class have been in a steady decline.

>>149808591
Because voice actors are a draw and animation on it's own isn't*

*for the general US audience

>>149808840
>and animation on it's own isn't*
the fuck it is

>>149808913
>Posts an obscure '80s animation that probably didn't even recoup its production budget

Don't mistake me, anon, I wish it weren't so, but US viewers consoom slop and love it. Studios have cut every possible corner to make a cartoon's ROI as high as it can be. Think of the artsiest, most lovingly made animation you've ever seen. Congrats, it didn't do 1/4 as good as 'Slop Sequel 6: Return to Consoom'. Nothing will be original, everything will be rehashed, and anything not a sequel will be written, designed, and animated by committee and/or AI, depending on how quickly the committee can be replaced by AI.

>>149808625
Since the 70s, not the 90s. Rightoid corporate bootlickers will pretend the productivity-wage gap is some kind of fiction, but 'total compensation' is a bullshit concept that has nothing to do wih paying the actual bills, and the graph is the same everywhere, even in places where employers provide vastly different amounts of non-cash theoretical remuneration, which mathematically should produce wildly different data points. What's more, 'benefits' have not changed substantially in decades, while the gap has continued to grow, once again revealing corporatists to be lying faggots.

>>149802963
>making it untenable for corporate to operate on anything but investment money by virtue of sales being unable to sustain their business models
there is no guarantee of that happening. you realize 100 years ago people would live with 13 other people in a cramped one-room apartment and many parts of the world had feudal landlords which didn’t have to pay any land tax and could simply charge rents to people operating on the land? The World Economic Forum will easily have us living in the pods and eating bugs if they do it slowly and progressively enough, and so far everything is going according to plan.

>>149786807
At least Mike Judge, Dan Povenmire, Alex Hirsch knew that.

>>149786808

>>149786808

>>149808913
That movie was rated PG btw

>>149780103 (OP)
Cheaper = more profit
The sad reality of modern capitalism is that Jews will make a products as shitty and cheap as they possibly can to the absolutely cusp of it being unsellable.
>give our share holders 4 million each instead of 6 million each? Nah let’s just cut the budget by 50% instead and outsource more of it to India, doesn’t matter if it’s trash
It’s why shows often get cheaper as they get more popular. More investors and less to prove (lower price elasticity). Business it all about cutting the right corners

>>149782527
I am a certified nurse you dingus, are you saying I should aim for a higher paying job? Do you want even less nurses? Or are you baiting as I assume?

>>149798461
And they still look better than cartoons. Lotgh has very little movement yet it's about 99% of western cartoons.

>>149783302
>They're at the same skill level as an old Scooby Doo cartoo
And modern western cartoons are even worse lol. Scooby doo, even with all the recycled stuff, took more effort since it was animated on cels. You are basically praising anime by saying that it's like SB instead of the rigged garbage that are modern cartoons.

>>149783910
Background animation is actually harder than character animation a lot of the time. It takes a lot more frames, and perspective is a lot more important.

>>149783910
>Notice how all the good animation is focused on one character at a time? Now try several...
The 2nd last episode of City had plenty of that + since you are cherrypicking I can easily post a high budget ova that mogs almost every western toon(since there is also more detail than the average calarts bean slop).

>>149798461
As >>149798787 has pointed out(if you are not the same person), that's what makes anime so great. In western cartoons you rarely if ever get that expensive episode since they are ok with keeping everything average(there are also anime series that keep a high quality for most of the show , like some 90s madhouse shows or some 80s sunrise mecha, 00s gainax anime like flcl or ttgl etc.)

>>149780103 (OP)
>good quality animation anymore.
thats for fight scenes. good animation doesnt make a joke funnier or a story more interesting

>>149786808
Looks like ai slop

>>149782374
>want to live in California but not pay California prices

Many such cases

>>149811277
>want to live in California
Only low iq people want that.

>>149811290
It's a beautiful state if you can ignore the politics

>>149781252
Animation wise it's impressive but holy fuck was this the most tiktok 5 second brain spaned animation I have ever seen. Like I feel I need a handful of Adderal for this.

>>149811297
Of course the environment itself looks good(plenty of american states look nice) but the people represent everything that's wrong with our modern society.

>>149811332
True, but they're generally concentrated in LA and SF

>>149782492
>People are literally richer than they ever have been
Keep saying it, it won't get better until it gets so much worse.

>>149799350
The problem is America hates imagination more than it loves money because imagination frees slaves, interrupting the money

>>149782374
all those sound like YOU problems
>stability
sounds like you just want entitled handouts

>>149811332
its a great state that filters problems like you.

>>149780103 (OP)
Why the animation look so rubish, Yo?

>>149811657
>its a great state
Too bad the animation it produces nowadays is garbage.

>>149780652
>Revolt
interesting choice of words, as if admitting an ulterior motive

>>149786807
Are you implying the King of the Hill animators get paid too much? Don't piss me off, anon.