Thread 149799814

One More Day, and Miles Morales. One of these is the worst thing to ever happen to Peter Parker, Spider-Man. Which is it? The complete warping of his character and history to appease editorial's divorce crisis and its consequences, or attempting to assert that Spider-Man isn't Peter Parker, just empty corporate symbolism?

Miles because I hate niggers.

Miles is definitely worse because you're allowed to criticize OMD and hope and publicly call for it to be undone

>>149799814 (OP)
One more day
You can't get worse than having your most popular hero sell their marriage and unborn child to the devil

OMD only affected the comics. Miles has been a concerted and intentional blight upon all aspects of the Spider-Man franchise.

I'll never understand the hate for Spider Man when Parker was nothing more than a self insert power fantasy. Spider Man has actual depth and character development.

>>149799953
And for the past 2 decades Hes been regressing

>>149799837
this anon is right. We're still allowed to hate OMD, and most people will agree. Miles is untouchable.

>>149799814 (OP)
I don't hate Miles anymore. He's not the issue with editorial, and he's got his own niche place in the lore. You should be more upset with dumb hit like Spider-Gwen or Spider-Boy

>>149800062
Miles is ground zero for the dilution of the brand that led to Spider-Verse, Spider-Gwen, Spider-Boy, Spider-Fuck, whoever the fuck else

>>149800081
That’s been going on before Miles with all the AU stuff. It’s just easy to point to him because that’s when it really ramped up and got bad.

>>149800355
hardly, 616 and Ultimate didn't even touch each other until post-Miles.

>>149800355
AU stuff has been happening for decades, it wasn't until Miles was introduced that it became CRUCIAL for every Spider-Man story to be about Spider-Verses and Spider-Rangers so Miles would have a reason to be there, there have been ZERO solo Spider-Man stories/universes since he was introduced

>>149800081
I live Spider-Gwen

>>149800489
You like gooning to an aesthetic you don’t like the character

>>149800081
No that's still Ben and the dozen spider girls they never use

>>149800549
see >>149800440

>>149799814 (OP)
I haven't read anything about marvel since Secret Wars 2015, so I started catching up on Civil War 2, Inhumans vs. X-Men, and Secret Empire.
I can't help but notice how much attention Miles gets and how little Peter gets.
It borders on parody, the push that Marvel gives to the little black guy, already ridiculous.
Does this shit continue any longer or this retarded push eventually start to wane at some point?

>>149799838
Peter and MJ's baby was stillborn or kidnapped by the Green Goblin, they didn't really follow up on it.

>>149800610
Ultimate Incursion did an unironic “exaggerated swagger of a black spider-man”

>>149800610
>so I started catching up on Civil War 2, Inhumans vs. X-Men, and Secret Empire.

Why would you do that to yourself

OMD was a million times worse
>b-but Miles
shut the fuck up, he’s nowhere as terrible and only really got bad after 2015 when he moved to 616. OMD permanently scarred the franchise in irreparable ways and a fucking black kid Spider-Man isn’t in any way comparable just because you faggots are unable to get over him

>>149800763
OMD was only worse if you care exclusively about 616

>>149799814 (OP)
Miles because he started the whole trend of woketards saying that "everyone can be spider-man" even through Spider-Man was always the story about the struggles of Peter Parker trying to balance his superhero responsiblities with his private life.
Thanks to Miles we got the focus on Spidervese bullshit which forever tainted the franchise.

>>149799814 (OP)
Brian Micheal bendis is the worse thing to happen to spider-man

>>149800081
They’re all better than Peter post-OMD anyway.

>>149800763
Miles is the primary reason why OMD will never be undone anon

>>149800561
You can think whatever you want but to pin all of this on Miles is stupid because we had these issues already and dumber ideas have since come after

>>149800866
Because he’s not allowed to grow and change due to editorial
Spencer literally throws this in your face with Peter breaking the 4th wall and looking at the reader talking about how he no longer has a wife, no children, his achievements mean nothing because he’s stuck in a cycle of regression and he’s tired of it and wants it to change

>>149800763
Such a cucked, pathetic post. Miles is worse than OMD and that's self-evident. You can go kill yourself, you Reddit fuck.

>>149800878
Why, are they giving him Mary Jane next?

>>149800489
No you fucking don't. Because there's nothing too like. She's a vacuous hoe and all you want to do is rip your dick off to r34

>>149800489
stop thinking and acting like a gooner animal. you’re destroying yourself and society by accepting cultural degradation and mediocre art just because it’s sexualized.

>>149800933
No but setting up the marriage allows for room for mayday to exist, and her entire character not only makes miles redundant, but also shows that miles has nothing unique to offer anyone

>>149800724
I wanted to know what I missed, even though I know more or less everything from being on /co/ for all those years.
It's funny how Marvel made 3 (kind) heroes vs heroes, which killed the characterization of many characters in each arc
>Civil War 2
Carol is an idiot obsessed with putting everyone in jail. She doesn't accept being wrong and doesn't want anyone to stop her from putting people under arrest, regardless of whether they're her friends or if they haven't done anything yet.
>Inhumans vs. X-Men
Medusa is a cheating whore. Human Torch is her sex toy who is discarded at the end of the arc despite him fighting for her. Black Bolt is a cuckold who does nothing for 99% of the arc. Cyclops and Emma are seen as literal Hitlers despite fighting for the survival of their race. Also, this is a retarded moment at the end of the arc where the inhumans wonder why the mutants didn't just ask when they were against it before and time was running out.
>Secret Empire
The most boring arc of the three. Although I admit there wasn’t character assassination on the same level as in the other two, aside from the fact that Punisher and Thor joined Hydra without mind control or anything like that.
Although I admit I really enjoyed the Hank/Ultron chapter

I hate Spider-Men in general. There's only 1 Spider-Man I relate to and that's Peter Parker.

>>149801001
>It's funny how Marvel made 3 (kind) heroes vs heroes, which killed the characterization of many characters in each arc

It's because they wanted to chase that Civil War and AvX high. And AvX already was them trying to do Civil War again.

>>149801001
>Cyclops and Emma are seen as literal Hitlers
Because they are.

>>149801147
Fuck off, Marvel shill

>>149800779
I would say that mindbreaking consumers into not caring about continuity in comics with superheroes, one of their defining traits/selling points, as well as denying the core story theme of Spider-Man in service of shit that surface-level and easier to write is worse because it collectively lowers the standards of people who enjoy Spider-Man and comics in general. Spider-Man is a gateway into the rest of the medium and it being tainted with shit like OMD means now we have a base of fans who don't have a critical eye.
OMD could be argued to be a sign of the oncoming woke shit and Miles himself because all of that relies upon the same retarded writing that Quesada wanted for his company to have. Shocking bullshit that doesn't mean anything.
JMS just made OMD sound good when read because that's all he could do since he knew how to write dramatically at one point. Everything else about it, and Quesada's art is terrible.

You spider fags still crying over the fact that USM will soon end. Rumor has it will restart but with MIles in the main lead.

>>149801244
>>149800779
And since OMD informs and forces/influences creators to think along the lines of easier writing, then that leads to comics and other mediums taking notice that these lower standards work and thus, everybody associated with Marvel will follow their lead. I'm not saying the movies and other places follow the comics lead all the time but they will take their ideas. Who's to say Marvel didn't get word that their comics division was able to skimp out on stuff and still make money?
ITSV parroting Stan Lee's anybody could be under the mask mantra but reinterpreting it to mean anybody with Spider-Man's powers could do everything he did is dumb. Stan was just explaining why his costume could allow self-inserting people to find appeal in reading Spider-Man and buy merch. What still matters is the story has a main character with appeal. Miles could still become that but he has to find his own identity first. Peter already has his own. So yeah Miles is a symptom of OMD-type thinking. I'd rather erase the origin of retardation first so Peter can be written well and then provide a ocntrast between him and Ziglar's Miles so I can then have the moral high ground to change Miles into something non-spider related.

>>149801403
Miles is entirely a tumor born from America's race obsession, he has no narrative worth or reason to exist without America being mindbroken about race

>>149799814 (OP)
One More Day if you're talking about Peter specifically, Miles if you're talking about Spider-Man "the brand".

Spider-Man should have ended decades ago that's the honest truth.

>>149801173
Muties are a plague and must be purged like Nazis

>>149799814 (OP)
One More Day by fucking far. A revamp of Spider-Man was never not in the cards at any given point in time, but OMD really made it clear editorial would never allow Peter a real win.

>>149801528
Does this like a X-Men thread to you? bug off

>>149801545
kys faggot

>>149799814 (OP)
One more day is objectively worse miles was completely fine when he was just in the ultimate universe.

>>149801574
Not a X-Men thread so piss off.

>>149801244
>>149801403
This is correct

>>149801647
spider-man is an x-men and he objectively became worse for it

>>149801717
Spider-Man is not a mutant.

>>149801741
>n*gg*r not a mutant
anon are you retarded?

>>149801933
He is not a mutant.

>>149801389
I have no doubt you're shitposting but at this point I wouldn't be surprised

>>149801439
That's a part contributing to it. Miles however is also another "character," or more accurately a design for a company to fleece from black kids more money. More designs/toys, more money and we all know Marvel makes money from merch/licensing and not comics. That's partly why they barely care about pirate websites but will sue you into oblivion for using Spider-Man without permission with Disney's lawyers. The race stuff is to just make people feel more morally significant than what they actually are.

Miles could exist if he was written with purpose and America writing about racial problems, while tired as it is, could still prove ground for something meaningful. God loves, Man Kills as heavy handed as it is, still acted as something beyond a product. A buncha kids learning about racism that way is of more value than seeing, "By odin's fade! I'm losing my exaggerated swagger!" over here.
>>149801440
Talking brand wise, yes Miles is much more damaging. Everyone sees companies shitting themselves on what to do with ESG/DEI and whether to backpedal or keep going. Miles is another symbol for this initiative.
>>149801508
It did end. Look at ASM 500.
>>149802121
Maybe. Who knows. Just ignore the schizo. Reeks of Polish in here.

>>149799814 (OP)
Neither. The worst thing to happen to Spider-Man as a character and as a property is that Editorial and Marketing decided to kill decades of progress and growth to turn the comic line and the franchise into a perpetual IP farm for other media.

Now you have characters that can only change and grow outside of the main books because that's where Marvel's priority really is. Peter can't grow older or change in any meaningful way, Miles can't grow into any role (Spider-Man or otherwise) naturally, Gwen is destined to repeat the past, every secondary character is doomed to be "changed" superficially with no lasting repercussions other than a death that may or may not stick, and new characters don't really add anything to the mythos other than new merch and to further the illusion of change.

But it's easier to type "woke" and a slur, and the ones who do it serve as a useful distraction from just how creatively bankrupt the Marvel comic line has really become.

>>149801389
Hey I know you, you're that famous Polish pedophile! Gwen is a MURDERING WHORE getting replaced by Spider-Gwen.

>>149802205
It does get annoying to constantly see the internet itself behave like the comics being put out now where there is the illusion of change. Like 4chan crying woke and saying slurs while the rest of the internet doesn't understand 4chan for what it is and fails to dig for the actual worthwhile message being said.
So nothing gets done. But conservative stuff is in vogue and the Spider-Man normies are getting wise to all these criticisms from my understanding. The youtube drones still think in terms of characters rather than editorial.
Due to human nature that's all gonna happen but I would still say using woke in meaningful ways is still productive because Miles is like the posterboy for wokeness. We all fucking know this. Everything about how he was introduced in 2011 and the ensuing fiasco was a signal for the future we are in now. We also know a lot more due to Bendis being more open with how he created him and what we know about that guy. I think Opie and Anthony were still on and Anthony got pissed, lol.
Anyway, it does get tiring to hear the same points but Miles will forever be Mr. Woke because of who they hire at Marvel and probably how they don't pay people enough to fix him.
But yeah editorial is the reason why these happened, I agree.

>>149801741
But Spider-Gwen is a mutant??? ARE YOU RETARDED?????

>>149799814 (OP)
Miles has had dire consequences that extend outside of 616, so he's clearly the bigger blight.
Almost every single adaptation or alt universe story since his debut have beelined directly past 60 years of Spider-Man material to make it all about him.

Thoughts on bnd?

>>149802440
It's faggot shit, made exclusively for Polish pedophiles, who are also faggots.

>>149802143
>Miles could exist if he was written with purpose
The problem with Miles is they turned him into Peter with more diversity instead of adversity. He's always had a cushy life with the exception of OG Ultimate where things WERE shit for him. Hell it shouldn't be that hard too watch
>Miles starts off Upper Middle Class thanks to his dad's job as a SHIELD agent
>SHIELD is disbanded and his dad is laid off
>Now living a much more deprived life than he's used to
>Shenanigans ensue and he gets bitten by a radioactive spider gaining spider powers
>Decides to use his powers to rip off criminals, help pay the rent donate to various charities and buy a nice pair of sneakers
>Dad finds out and instead of being mad decides to use it as an opportunity for Father/Son bonding he missed being a SHIELD agent, begins working as Miles mission command
>Miles starts giving more and more of a damn about being an actual hero while his dad keeps pushing for bigger scores because he's addicted to the thrill of his old life
Christ have him do something different than Peter beyond collecting powers like pokemon

>>149802440
An extension of OMD.

>>149802269
For once in your miserable life don't fucking start with the scizo seriously just don't

>>149802440
Haven't read it all yet. Just know the major arcs and plot of it. But taking a look at that first issue again is such whiplash. It's like how Spectacular Spider Man ended and Ultimate Spider Man began. Immediate drop off into childish writing with no charm to it, aping all the shit that "Spider Man" should have.

I see there's some revisionism about how "Miles was okay in the Ultimate Universe" but nah. Miles was a pathetically boring and uninteresting character even back in his Ultimate days.
He was always meaningless. Even if he ever had any potential, it was squandered on day one.

>>149799814 (OP)
You know how I know I'm old? Because people say shit like Miles Morales instead of Sins Past.

>>149802568
Name the amount of Spider-Man stories ruined by Sins Past

>>149802594
Spencer's run and Kindred, for starters.

>>149802594
Adds a gross color to everything leading up to "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" but all and all you can ignore Sin's Past since it really only mattered to the American Son arc and the Kindred shit in Spencer's run.

>>149802205
It's also easier to ignore all the criticism on this thread and simplify it to "woke" and a slur

>>149802654
>It's also easier to ignore all the criticism on this thread and simplify it to "woke" and a slur
Hasn't that always been the game, Creators do dogshit work, Fandom scream "WOKE" because there are minority characters and now the Creators have cover to distract from all the actual problems because they can just lump you in with the screaming Nazis. I'm almost convinced the anti-Woke faggots are controlled opposition with how quickly and easily they seem to be able to co-opt anything.

the proof that miles doesn't work and never belonged as spider-man is shown that he has to be spun off into other heroes every few years - whatifs or not

>>149802718
>he has to be spun off into other heroes every few years
>Every few years
Dude that happened once, you don't have to make shit up to shit on Miles

>>149802710

I believe it. Think about how Marvel editorial keep insisting youth is the main theme of Spider-Man and Miles being around calls attention to how Peter isn't young.

>>149802568
Sins didn't cascade through everything like the other two did. It's not good for the characters, but it doesn't affect much after it. Without the new characters constantly showing up, it simply couldn't, not unless it became a Pymslap kinda moment.

>>149802356
None of this is human nature. It's people fighting over who gets to spend their money on a product.

>Miles is "woke."

Is slop. Slop of the lowest order. It only exists to manipulate people who don't buy a product into paying attention to that product while acting as free advertisement for that product. It was the same way with "SJW's" in the past, and it's the same way with "conservatives" now.

And the fucked part about it is that you know it's slop. You know its meaningless and it won't fill you up. But you went and justified it like you're mandated to have to eat the slop.

You're getting manipulated into eating slop as though it's normal and you have no choice but to buy it. How do you not see just how fucked up it is?

>>149802440
People were glazing it back in the day but at least 80% of it is ass and doesn't hold up well.

>>149799814 (OP)
OMD
OMD happened to Spider-man, the character, and ruined every one of his comics going forth.
Spider-poochie happened to the franchise and has had an unnatural and undeserved amount of promotion from Marvel, but he didn't do much to Spider-man (barring requiring Spider-man to die so he can grave-rob the mantle).

>>149802818
>Pymslap kinda moment.
Now THAT'S a true ruination. I think it took close to 40+ years, two movies, an insane status quo for the character and Jed McKay and Al Ewing having enough clout/lack of oversight to undo it. Forty fucking years for Pym to almost fully recover goddamn

>>149802710
If I had a dollar for every time me I've gotten "you just hate women/blacks" for criticizing a work.
Like shit, I'm not even American and I don't give two shits about your fucktarded low-IQ culture war, leave me be. I have plenty of problems on my own. I can just dislike things without your gay political agenda on both sides.
I've grown to hate both my accusers and those feeding their retarded paranoia.

>>149802851
I'm 100% under impression those liking it were simply coping. I remember feeling the dissatisfaction almost immediately, all the problems with the book that will become glaring eventually were already there.

>>149802832
That's what gets me about this Culture War shit. It truly is meaningless but people put so much stock into it while the corpos keep making bank in one way or another. Worst part is a lot of the people know it but are addicted to the fight they have to own the otherside by any means necessary. Fucking rats fighting over a piece of moldy cheese while the Titanic sinks around them

>>149802832
I meant human nature in the sense that people fight for dumb reasons and fall into using faulty arguments/logic. People in this society are now just able to fight over even dumber things like how a product looks. They still mostly do it in order to look cool to others.
>Miles is slop...same way with "conservatives" now.
Yeah I agree with all that. I just use woke in the sense of leftism going too far just like I'll say the right is being too racist or intolerant of change.
I'm not justifying Miles existence. I'm just highlighting Marvel's ineptitude by presenting another example of what they should have done.
>manipulated into eating slop
>implying I buy these comics or anything Marvel puts out now

>>149802976
I wrote that calling Miles "woke" is slop, barely above using your favorite slurs in another Culture War argument.

But that's the point. It's just another form of slop to manipulate people into paying attention to a product and being free advertisement for that product. A product they aren't buying and wouldn't buy otherwise.

You're not better because you don't buy the comic. You're worse because you know it's slop and still push it onto others while holding yourself above it. Because you play into the framework you know is a lie and treat it like it's the only option. Because you don't want things to get better. You just want the comfortable seat and the better tasting slop outside of the rabble that eat the plain slop.

Miles would never have happened if OMD hadn't happened. OMD showed Marvel they could destroy the character to his core and the mindless consumers would keep buying, so why not see how far they can mess with the formula?

>Spiderman ps4 &ps5
>they have Miles Morales and Peter is allowed to be with MJ entirely
>Spiderverse movies
>have Miles Morales and Peter is allowed to be with MJ entirely
>Tom Holland's BND upcoming movie which features a redhead Sadie Sink and a hag Latina to justify the surname of a certain exaggerated swagger of a black teenager Liza Colón-Zayas
>...
If this multiverse refugee is deported as speculated for Ultimate relaunch then it is one step closer to undo OMD, so yeah, OMD is worse.

>>149802918
I think it was just weird to me to see reviewers who should've known better, give a lot of it glowing praise

>>149803557
I'm so used to reviewers eating up the worst slop imaginable and praising it (be it comics, MCU or whatever else) that their opinions no longer register as anything worthwhile in my head.

>>149803528
Nah Miles' existence is entirely predicated on Obamna running for president, which was in 2007

>>149800763
Can you explain further why

>>149803401
>you're not better because you don't buy the comic
Didn't say that. You put those words in my mouth. You are the one who said I was being manipulated into buying slop.
>calling miles "woke" is slop
>implying I don't have evidence and reasons why Miles is woke which I defined/implied as cynical leftism seeping it's way into products that degrade them in quality
Yeah I don't feel like spoonfeeding you all that evidence because it's not my job to educate you on how to critically look at something. Seems lime you're arguing in bad faith and acting like a schizo not willing to look deeper.
>still push it onto others...play into the framework
Me using terms like "woke" may attract and bring more influence to the term and that might legitimize it. However, just as with racist stereotypes, there is a kernel of truth to it even if it later inspires actions and attitudes that are not good. The point of freedom of speech is to open dialogues on these topics and then try to hash out a solution or explore the ideas to see what is and isn't good. I think labels are good and bad. Labels simplify and make stuff easier to recognize. But yeah racism can corrupt labels into not really being true. In this case, I think woke is true in describing the methods in which Miles was created or at least is used now. I think writing critically about bad things is still worth it even if it might bring more consumers to try and experience it themselves and thus the company makes some money. There's always that trade-off. But usually bad things eventually start to lose their effect even if they manage to make money once or twice. Look at the Michael Bay Transformers movies. They had to pivot because people got tired of them.

>>149799814 (OP)
Miles has more terminal long term effects but that wasn't the initial intent. with ultimate peter dead he would have just been an elsewards legacy character, tired but innocuous. it's what followed that fucked spider man from 2015 to ongoing.

conversely, the interpersonal bullshit is always secondary to cool superhero antics so one more day's effects are less crippling, but the actual intent of the decision was a lot more malicious.

>>149802518
Wow that’s good, I hope someone over at marvel borrows it

>>149803551
>If this multiverse refugee is deported as speculated for Ultimate relaunch

i hadn't heard this but it's a very smart move from a PR perspective. they can quarantine miles for his souring PR while never actually having to admit defeat by renaming him or killing him off.

>>149803574
Yeah I finally came to that conclusion during the 2010s. Back around 2008-2010 I still had the hope they were worthwhile.

>>149803551
>>149803745
>Miles gets Peter's Ultimate name for free
>fucking tanks it
>gets transferred to fucking 616 for free
>can't sell for shit anyway
>Peter rebuilds the Ultimate name and goodwill
>it's all so they can give it to Miles to tank again

I'll be real; most people still bitching about Miles don't even read current books, be it his, ASM, or otherwise. /co/ likes to pretend we're still in the Bendis era for some reason

>>149803842
current context doesnt matter if your issue with miles is that his very existence in 616 cheapens peter by association

>>149803687
>the interpersonal bullshit is always secondary to cool superhero antics so one more day's effects are less crippling
Nah, nigger. Nah.
Interpersonal shit was why Spider-Man worked. Completely discarding the established supporting cast is precisely why Spider-Man comics of today are shit. It made the stakes of fights feel more real and therefore the outcomes satisfying.
Without it the "cool superhero shit" of post-OMD is absolutely hollow "dangling keys in front of the toddler" garbage that entertains only the dumbest of brainlets. (aka "people" still buying ASM). Marvel hates it because, let's be honest, none of these autistic manchildren can write quality human interactions that aren't ragebait (case in point, Paul shit) so they see no point in writing it.

>>149803867
its objectively true. i didn't say its not important, it is, but peters personal drama, like you literally just said, exists to add gravity to the fighting. we'd be watching soap operas otherwise. OMD fucks with the quality of the writing, Miles fucks with the systemic concept of the character.

>>149799814 (OP)
Miles by a country mile. He's Marvel's Poochie. He has to be crammed into ANYTHING related to Peter. Whenever Miles isn't on panel, everyone has to ask "Where's Miles?" He's all the worst parts of Ben because you could at least criticise Ben and the writers knew he'd be unpopular and put him in his own little area away from most of the story. With Miles, they can just call his unpopularity racism and double down on shoving him into everything. If they just put Miles into his own universe, not having to leech off of Peter, this would be a non issue. My only solace is that, no matter how hard Marvel tries, Miles will NEVER be as popular as Peter.

>>149800489
You just like jerking your thimble dick to the design, you don't actually LIKE her two-by-four, plank-of-wood personality.

>>149800866
Then how come not a one of them can outsell Peter. Face it you gigafaggot, not even Marvel intentionally fucking Peter over at every level can diminish his popularity. Now get off 4chan, I think I hear Marvel editors calling you come and lick their shoes clean.

>>149803866
I don't know why we have this same discussion repeatedly when we all know there were other characters "cheapening Peter's existence" well before Miles came along. You just fixate because you want to

>>149799814 (OP)
The Shilling of miles in literally all Spider-Man media is so annoying. You never saw Miguel shilled as much and he’s a much better character

>>149800489
Mayday is much better and I’m not even the biggest m

>>149803996
I’ve never been a fan of the ever growing cast of spider people but you’re being disingenuous to claim that any of the others have actively attempted to usurp Peter like Miles has.

>>149804010
*biggest mayday fan

>>149804032
You say "usurp" when we both know that isn't true. And yes we had others try to do that in the past too

>>149803842
>/co/ likes to pretend we're still in the Bendis era for some reason
That's right, Miles isn't getting dumb powerups every other month, struggling to develop an identity, villains or a supporting cast worth shit, having storybeats be exclusively lowbrow ego stroking for self-inserters or showing up uninvited on others' stories to be a sanctimonious ass and being applauded for it. Buy m- our guy Ziglar's books and Disney stocks. Please.

>>149799814 (OP)
miles because it
>he sidelines peter to prop himself up
>is a blatant copy of a unique hero (shit like "muuuuh electricity und invis" is a cope and forgotten half the time)
>he has to be included in new media so writters have to give him: a reason to get his powers and waste time bulfing a "friendship"? mentorship? with peter
>said forced inclusion of course wastes time and money that could be used to adapt stories or just flesh out peter's character instead of miles "no charisma" morales staying the same or aping the movies (also no charisma)
>his inclusion brings along gwen too
>that also means bringing cringe spiderverse shit
>it also means eventually replacing peter despite of /co/s massive whinning that that would never happen (already did in vidya)

OMD can EASILY be ignored, you can have MJ and Peter together without cringe divorces or teasing, miles on the other hand shits hard on the mythos and bring a truck load of problems with him

>>149804097
Nta but where is the Miguel movie? The massive push Miles had is what makes a big difference

>>149804135
>villains or a supporting cast worth shit
See this is disingenuous on your part because he actually has a decent villain and supporting cast but no matter how much they add to it you act like it doesn't count. It's fine if you don't like them, but let's not pretend he hasnt grown

>>149804220
>OMD can EASILY be ignored,

No

>>149804261
Not only you're full of shit, milesfags themselves have admitted multiple times in this board the current status is worse than Bendis'.

>>149800763
OMD only affects comics shit if you never picked up one in your life this shit will be an obscure fart
Miles is a constant push on any sort of spider media, along with gwen, that affects movies, shows or whatever he is in. the story has to bend over backwards to explain why pwter has a sidekick that for whatever reasom shares a name with him
>b-b-but comic-
kill yourself fag

>>149799837
THIS
you can shit on OMD, you can't call it a pointless adittion, you can say it should be deleted from canon
you can't even say that spider-nig should have his own name

>>149804352
Okay why did you intentionally shift into a strawman rather than address my point?

>>149804409
>OMD only affects comics shit if you never picked up one in your life this shit will be an obscure fart
Not true, movies and games are shit also because of BND stories.

>>149804440
There is no strawman, I'm exposing your flagrant rejection of reality when even your own biased people disagree.

>>149803551
>>they have Miles Morales and Peter is allowed to be with MJ entirely
after demoralizing him and have miles effectively replace him from now on (devs words)
>>Spiderverse movies
>>have Miles Morales and Peter is allowed to be with MJ entirely
after demorslizing him and have him replaced with miles (hack directors words), also completely shit on infinite variants of spider-man and make fun of his mythos
>>Tom Holland's BND
after completely demoralizing him
see the pattern, little retard?

>>149800440
>it became CRUCIAL for every Spider-Man story to be about Spider-Verses and Spider-Rangers
That only happen because the movie. In the first Spider-verse crossover he is a glorified cameo. He needs to be saved and isn't more important that other spider-men. You should know this, if you actually were interested on read comics.

Do any of you anons think 4chan is ever flooded with ESL sounding replies by industry people with intentional strawman arguments in order to drown out the actually biting ones?

>>149804276
>hits the retcon button and boom OMD is no more peter and MJ are togheter and no cringe will they wont they exists
you think people will be angry? sad? mad?
now replace OMD with miles or gwen and tell me how would people react
miles is a cancer that overstayed his welcome

>>149804499
You're going off a tangent with people not associated with me instead of the original point we were on

>>149801001
>Cyclops and Emma are seen as literal Hitlers despite fighting for the survival of their race.
Cyclops was already dead, yet his fanboys keep talking like he was around for the things Emma made people think he did after he'd died, proving they haven't even read the comics they're complaining about.

And any X-Men comics in which non-villains are actually buying into the idea of mutants being a separate race is by definition a bad X-Men story. Virtually every X-Men story in this century has been bad for this reason.

>>149804649
Been at this long enough to know Marvel staff really do lack basic communication skills, this can be observed on "more reputable" places they raid as well.

>>149799814 (OP)
Miles is cool when he's a solo spider-man in the same way Peter is cool when he's a solo spider-man. I think Spider-verse sort of fixes all the issues I had with his introduction, namely that ultimate peter had to die to justify Miles. If OMD had happened to any other character it wouldn't have taken this long to retcon or resolve, I'd rate it as the worst thing to happen to Spider-man only because it's maybe the most blatant proof that spider-man editorial is god awful.

>>149799814 (OP)
OMD is the worst thing to happen to the character
Miles/Spider-Verse is the worst thing to happen to the franchise

>>149799814 (OP)
One More Day is by far the worst.

>>149804649
There are so many posts where I want to believe that. But, ultimately, it doesn't matter if a post is sincere or paid for; you are equally powerless to do anything about it. Accept that, ignore them, and focus on the things you like to talk about.

>>149800962
Comics are only worth a penny if they contain cheesecake. That is what culture warriors tell me.

>>149802440
I will give it credit for attempting to use Peter's supporting cast better than what has been done since

>>149804453
what movie exactly?
Iron boy? no actual MJ, but teased miles with a non canon "cameo"
sony? never got to MJ
spider-verse shit? he got with MJ, after completely shitting on peter and other spideys to put miles on a pedestal, but he got her at least
that ugly looking disney show? no MJ yet but we know they will include a gwen
insomniac? got together with a weird looking MJ after going through the most laughable humilliation ritual ever and getting replaced

as you can see OMD doesn't affect peters relationship as much as trying to include miles does

>>149804097
> You say "usurp" when we both know that isn't true

Anon, I know he may get even more hate than he deserves for being black but youve gotta have friggin blinders on to not see what they tried and failed to do with Miles.

>>149804781
>think Spider-verse sort of fixes all the issues I had with his introduction,
by having every possible spider-man support the idea of letting people die? that is better to you?

>>149804097
insomniacs spider-man has miles usurp him on the SECOND game while also having miles beat up venom most of the time

>>149804873
That's the second movie anon. I mean more so him being in a universe with an older Peter Parker as a mentor who goes on to retire. His universe's peter still died to match the comics which is lame, but I like the concept of Peter getting out of the game to get his good ending by a sort of passing of the mantle.

>>149802635
Spencer did that to himself, his attempt to undo it was ironically much worse than Sins Past itself

>>149804916
the movie that also has peter as a loser post divorce? that is better?
>passing of the mantle.
thats not peter as a character nor spider-man because it is not a mantle to pass

>>149801440
>Miles if you're talking about Spider-Man "the brand".
Nah, Miles was basically an afterthought in the spider-man brand for 7 years. Basically, half of his existence. Without a movie that gained the appeal of the public he would still be languishing on the background of a crossover event like most of those spider-variants.

>>149800440
Slott got the idea for spider-verse from the 90s cartoon. He wrote the Shattered Dimensions (2010) and Edge of Time (2011) games and neither had anything to do with Miles. One of which had Ultimate Peter in it as a playable character. You can't blame Miles for the Spider-verse when the first crossover he was in was Spider-men in 2012. Marvel had already been trying to turn Spider-man into the Spider-family with characters like Frankie, Anya, Agent Venom and Kaine. The multiverse was just a quick and dirty way to write Miles into the 616 Spider-family without redoing a origin story for his 616 counterpart.

Spider-Gwen would have still been created considering the fact that there are alt universe spider-women of Aunt May,MJ and Betty. Slott would have still Made Silk too.

>>149804097
>And yes we had others try to do that in the past too
There was Ben and that's it. And their method of retiring Peter was to literally retire him and let him be happy, unlike now where the method seems to be kill him or make his life a joke to the point where he gives up.
And even then people hated it so much that Ben was killed off and Peter reinstated

>>149804991
at least with characters like venom and kaine its understandable because they have shit that links them to peter unlike miles trying to be a pseudo sidekick and family member when they barely know eachother pre and even post ultimate

>>149804991
>Slott got the idea for spider-verse from the 90s cartoon. He wrote the Shattered Dimensions (2010) and Edge of Time (2011) games and neither had anything to do with Miles.
Those were all exceptions and one-offs
>You can't blame Miles for the Spider-verse when the first crossover he was in was Spider-men in 2012.
I absolutely can because his introduction marks the hard shift from grounded solo in-universe Spider-Man media, to multiverse multi-Spider media

Like I said every new Spider-Man universe created since had either multiple Spider-Men, or multiverse shenanigans, or both, primarily to accommodate Miles existing, every game, every cartoon, every movie universe

>>149804649
It's not just 4chan where this happens it's all social media sites. All you need is a decently sized bot army and you can astroturf like a motherfucker. Worst part is if you do it right plenty of retards will pick it up themselves and do it for free

>>149804865
You're hyperfixating on losing your favorite shirt while your house burns around you.

Peter is a science illiterate zero confidence loser lacking human reactions, getting bankrolled by billionaire daddies providing high tech suits, who are also responsible for classic villains' backstories and motivations, largely buffoons and butt of jokes, while dogshit new ones like Mister Negative retain independency and are allowed to be threatening. With no real social life to speak of, what garbage excuse for a supporting cast is presented is either there as a gag or to chastise and/or exploit him, to which he happily abides. Every single adaptation follows this recipe, one way or another. This is BND's DNA.

>>149804989
You're talking about the past. In the year of our Lord 2025 it's becoming the case that you can't have a Peter Parker thing without Miles in it. Saying "without the thing that allowed Miles to become so cancerous, he wouldn't be cancerous" isn't saying much of anything.

>>149805079
The first Spider-verse Crossover comic is about Peter Vs SpOck and Slott had it in the works for years, Miles was a sideshow at best. Battleworld was a way to sunset 1610 because Bendis was leaving and he ultimate to get "Watchmend". They could have wrote a 616 Miles into existence during Superior Spider-man but Battleworld was easier and Marvel was has a problematic love of giant obscene crossover bullshit and has for what like 30 years. Marvel wanted and still wants Spider-man to be their Flashfamily/Batfamily.

MJ is Venom for fuck sakes. That has nothing to do with Miles and everything to do with Spider-Family.

>>149805511
>and he ultimate to get "Watchmend
he didn't want the ultimates to get "Watchmend"

>>149805511
Okay? What does that have to do with the fact multiverses and spider-families are now omnipresent in Spider-Man media mainly for the purpose of having Miles around?

>>149805511
>Marvel wanted and still wants Spider-man to be their Flashfamily/Batfamily.
you can say that but no previous wannabe family member was pushed as much as miles was, fucks dake he IS impossible to avoid as a sort of family/protegee of pwter at this point

>>149805511
>Marvel wanted and still wants Spider-man to be their Flashfamily/Batfamily.
and yet he can't have an actual family

>>149805552
Miles would exist without the Multiverse and the Multiverse would exist without Miles Because both exist because Marvel wants the a Bat Family.

without Miles,
Silk would still exist
Spider-Gwen would still exist
MJ Venom would still exist
Chasm would still exist
Mania venom would still exist
the Silver Sable symbiote team book would still exist
The Multiverse bullshit movies all would still exist except for the Lord and Miller ones.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Miles isn't as bad as One more day and people that say he is are blaming him for a lot of shit that happened around him but not because of him.

>>149804849
Ok. That's what I have been doing. I decided to take some time to write those posts and that's that. Now you anons can just make it a copypasta and then these threads will die quicker and we can talk about stuff we like. There, problem solved, kek.
>>149805119
Grim.
>>149805695
They're like sidestepping that but still wanting all the characters associated with the merchandising opportunity of a family and trying to justify it because Peter is typically a loner so they point to him not having a real family in that sense but then make the multiversal Spider-Men exist but not force him into joining their power rangers squad.
Real Peter would work with MJ and his kids as superheroes because Peter is naturally a fallible guy who can only manage people around him that he cares deeply about and trusts. Peter developed past Ditko's objectivism dogma but the origin is part of Ditko's moral world view and is still core to Peter. So he will always be a little misanthropic or a bit skeptical of people. His misanthropy may be due to having go as Spider-Man and skip out on stuff but he also has dealt with villains first hand. So yeah Spider-Verse does address that somewhat but it shouldn't be as big a part of Spider-Man because that isn't the appeal of his story. They're having their cake and eating it too.

>>149805800
This, he's a symptom not the cause. In fact I'd argue OMD and the Spiderverse are both part of the same problem. It's the big wigs at Marvel trying to turn Spiderman into something akin to Transformers.
OMD cuts off all progression and potential development forcing Peter to stay as the forever manchild for one demographic.
Spiderverse shit allows them to then create and sell a whole variety of Spidermen, Spiderwomen and Spidernonbinarys for any and all potential demographics, a Spiderperson for everyone.
You guys can fight about what's worse or more damaging but it's all the same thing in service to ruining a character to make a franchise for demographics that don't really exist outside of terminally online freaks

>>149805808
>Grim
You know what's really grim. At least 1/4 to 1/3 of internet traffic is bots posting, replying and interacting with each other

>>149805800
you are trying to turn it to other characters and its not working faggot because miles IS the one that events like multiverse shit has ro make room for ever since his massive push by marvel and the animated movies
whatevrr spider pwrson would still exists yes fag but not a single one would be as pushed as miles and the spiderverse shit since that is his only working gimmick

Bot you and >>149806082 are either mega retarded or mega stupid to think OMD is ok the same level

>>149803628
Corporations don't give a fuck about race and racism. Not unless they can make a profit off of it.

I said people were being manipulated into talking about and doing advertisement for a product they don't buy. Which includes you.

Stereotypes have no "kernel of truth to them."
They're stereotypes because people don't want to actually learn or just want the right excuse to do nothing. You using the term "woke" just plays into the same dynamics that keep Marvel doing what it's been doing and the slop jockeys fighting the same Culture War nonsense.

Because even if you took Miles and all of the "woke" out of Marvel, you'd still have the same problems. Because the problem isn't Miles, it's that Marvel doesn't give a shit about actually writing good characters or good stories. They just want to farm the IP as widely as possible and rake in the profits while doing as little work and spending as possible. And whether they do it to pander to "wokeness" or to "non-wokeness" or whatever word the Culture Wars consumes to perpetuate itself, that fundamental problem will still be there.

>>149806225
>im so lw smart and corpos NEVER EVER pander to fags or minorities or anything EVER, they would easily pander to you if things were different
this has always been wrong dumbfuck, there is a push for it and isn't even attempted to be hidden or subtle

>>149806218
Pot meet kettle

>>149806289
not even close idiot
you can try to bring up kaine or flash but none of them had a push as massive as miles, christs sakes theyhave their own separate name while miles has to be forever latching onto peter's and is constantly pushed as a junior and eventual replacement unlike the others
you are a genuine retard

>>149806225
Your logic basically boils down to "if we don't talk about racism then it will just go away" except you're saying that about OMD. There is a point where we become inundated with the discussions over and over until it becomes dumb to talk about it again and it just opens old wounds. Morgan Freeman said basically the same thing about racism. But I think America and Marvel both need to get fucking reformed and repaired into a functional entity again.
Case in point, they still hold firm and silent on the subject altogether. America and Marvel both. And I mean America's politicians who don't basically do anything to reform police because they have no money and corporations don't care to help 'em out. Yeah I agree corporations don't care mostly but they still sometimes do shit right like letting artists make serious pieces of media that address the problem.
Stereotypes do have a piece of truth. Why else do blacks get associated with watermelon and chicken? It's because they like it and they were probably cheap back then so they fell into liking it. It's the actions and words said about this that became racist and hurtful because people said it to make them feel bad. Can you distinguish that fact schizo?
>final paragraph
Yeah I agree. But figuring out why it is not working helps as well as finding other problems that could detract from the quality. And if you fucking read the thread you'd figure out that I said OMD is worse and guess what? OMD was created by editorial. So yeah if you fucking thought for a second and read my words closely, you'd see I agree on all that and that editorial is the problem. Quit wasting time.

>>149806499
Christ why is this sperg getting so many dubs. You're not even engaging with points any more just repeating yourself and calling me and the other guys retards

>>149806277
And every time you slam your fingers and forehead against the keyboard to complain about minorities and "woke", you provide free attention and advertisement for their slop.

It amazes me that we still haven't left the Stephen Wacker Age of outrage farming. And that people didn't learn the lesson.

>>149805276
>without the thing that allowed Miles to become so cancerous
It seems that you should be mad at the movie not the character. Because without the animated versions, comics Miles would never reached even a fraction of relevance. Miles was universally detested and frowned up and was just another writer's pet like many other characters before him.

>>149806602
Hey faggot you gonna respond to >>149806572 or what? I tore you a new one. Can't write fast enough?

>>149806591
becuse you faggots are retards, your point just saying that just because other shit exist it means miles isn't as bad
the other shit exists but never affects spidey as much as miles did and continues to do

>>149806681
You gish-galloped in order to put the blame on OMD.

And all I have to say is "Clone Saga."

OMD wasn't the first time Editorial and Marketing tried to kill Peter's growth as a character and keep th Spider-Man franchise frozen in place. And if OMD failed, they would have found another reason and another plot to justify keeping Peter from growing up and evolving as a character. From having wins and losses that actually matter. From having a supporting cast that actually felt like people rather than plot devices that superficially indicated "change" without actually changing.

So, it's not Miles, and it's not OMD. The worst thing to happen to Spider-Man is Editorial and Marketing wanting a product that could go on forever and generate infinite profit for them with little to no effort.

>>149804550
So you're saying this multiverse refugee isn't going to be deported from 616? That's retarded.

>>149806858
I'll go one further.

Miles Morales is the successor to Ben Reilly. He is what Ben was supposed to be. And just like Ben, Miles is being pushed the way he is because Editorial doesn't know what to do with Peter and refuses to continue the work that had been set up by Stan Lee and Romita in the 70's and 80's (married Peter.) So now you have two characters that can't actually change or grow into their roles because Marvel wants a Spider-Man to be perpetually in his mid-20's but they can't write Peter out and can't move on and they can't make a true successor.

>>149807086
Ben Reilly should fuck off to 161, Miguel O'Hara should fuck off to 2099, Spider Gwen should fuck off to 65, and Miles Morales should fuck off to 1610.

>>149806858
I gish galloped? Well I'm not going to run through all those points again to show you how they connect. Your reading comprehension isn't ready and I don't feel like dying from old age/boredom. I don't care anymore since you made an entire post to basically reiterate the same point and ignore that in >>149806572 I said verbatim, "editorial is the problem." This whole thread was about OMD or Miles being worse than the other. I don't care if you stay on topic since I'm not a janny but don't get mad at me for following OP's framing of the question. Yeah editorial is the problem. Sorry but take up your grievance with OP and how OP wrote the topic.

>>149802440
Even if we pretend everything preceding it didn't happen, I still can't find it generally interesting.

>>149806218
>whatevrr spider pwrson would still exists yes fag but not a single one would be as pushed as miles and the spiderverse shit since that is his only working gimmick

First, other shitty characters have been pushed plenty. Jessica alone has had like 3 or 4 relaunches in the last 10 years same with Gwen, Ben has had a couple and we won't even talk about Captain Marvel. Second I don't remember seeing Miles in No Way Home or Multiverse of madness I just remember seeing Willem Dafoe and Patrick Stewart. The Multiverse wasn't created as a crutch for Miles, It's a crutch for shitty writer and movie member berries.

Miles being a shitty character doesn't effect Spider-man comic because Miles isn't in Spider-man comics he's Miles Morales comics and the odd giant shitty crossovers that on principal people should have stopped buying 30 years ago. You know what's appears in way more Spider-man comic Then Miles? the writers dangling MJ and Peter in front of the reader with this will they won't they shit just to have Peter Freaky Friday with Doc Ock of 2 years. Either have them get back together or kill her off.

>>149799814 (OP)
Fuck that nigger. Good thing no one likes Black Batman

>>149807417
But he did his own thang

All 3 have ongoing series now.

I just can't help bit look back to when they tried to push Ben and how quickly that folded. Now, not matter how badly their series do, they keep giving books to these shitty new characters. And the only ones who will pretend to like it are the sycophantic mouth breathers with a shelf of unopened trades and omnis

>>149807146
If Marvel doesn't hire writers to actually write good stories that explore who they are as characters, then it doesn't matter if they're in their own books or in Peter's book or a SpiderVerse book. The end result will be the same.

>>149807789
untrue. if they fuck off and their stories are still bad its just their own comics problem, instead of it dragging peter down too.

>>149807789
>The end result will be the same
Marvel will be less like DC at the very least. Let DC keep Bendis while we're at it.

>>149807370
>been pushed plenty
but not as much as miles, retard. get it into your thick ass skull that not a single one of them had a push on the same level as him, the main issue with him

>i dont remember him in NWH
no but i do remember disney already attempting to set him up in the FIRST MOVIE you tremendous idiot, and there is a reason why i said SPIDER verse. is your brain that fucking small it cannot see the difference?

>>149799814 (OP)
Left one ultimately saved Peter. Right one is legit trash.

>>149808173
The only way you could make a case for OMD is if you were a Polish pedophile.

>>149807837
Except a "good" Peter story for Marvel involves superficial, sensationalistic change where nothing really happens and Marvel spins their wheels.

So you'd still end up with the same thing, just with more solo series on the shelves for $4 or $5 a book. Until they do an event book with the TPB costing $18-20 split across multiple titles. And all of it badly written slop, justified by being declared a loss leader while hoping to farm the IP out to other media that can do a better job and make more money than the books can for Marvel.

>>149799814 (OP)
it's honestly a little hard at times. OMD has the obvious stigma but at least creatives/fans vocally hate it. Miles gets downright collar-tugging when you remember his debut was blatant shock-value (having a character self-acknowldge 'poor taste' all but seals it)

>>149799814 (OP)
>Marywhore
good riddance
>Miles
kill it with fire

>>149808052
>no but i do remember disney already attempting to set him up in the FIRST MOVIE

I'm no gonna say definitively that Miles won't every make his way to live action on the silver screen, but that was just a reference to Community. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFu4CYUGhW8

Donald Glover Pajamas inspired Bendis to make a black Spider-man.

Marvel wasn't laying the groundwork for 4 movies and a decade later to introduce the kid on the other end of the phone while Donald Glover is glued to his car with the ice cream melting in that one post credit scene.

>>149808376
Go take a long walk off a short pier, Polish pedoschizo.

>>149800819
>everyone can be spider-man
I hated when this was said in the Into the Spider-Verse movie. It was so blatant what they were trying to do

>>149799814 (OP)
Miles shouldn't even be on the list of things.

>>149808303
>leave this shitty thing in Peter’s fiction because there’s already a lot of other shitty things so what difference does it make.

If you actually do want him to get good stories again then you have to start somewhere.

>>149807838
Bendis fucked of from DC long ago. Did you even comics bro?

>>149808873
I beg to differ.
Refute this, milessissies.

>>149808875
Then it should start with getting rid of the sliding timeline across all Marvel books and having an end in mind for all of their characters and the legacy characters that will take over the books.

Then they can start hiring writers that will write them as actual characters who can grow and change and learn instead of glorified character designs for the newest line of merchandise for kids or half-assed stories that will get written better for the MCU and other Marvel properties.

>>149808951
DC can fire him if they don't want to keep him. Just stay from Marvel.

>>149799814 (OP)
Isn't One More Day just the natural consequence of the comic book format we've had for the last 80 years? If you format your story like a soap opera, it's going to play out like a soap opera.

>>149809169
The completely normal soap opera development of trading your marriage to the devil

>>149809040
>having an end in mind for all of their characters and the legacy characters that will take over the books
MCU can't even keep RDJ and Chris Evans to be Iron Man and Captain America respectively. The former is recasted to be Dr. Doom and the latter is recasted to be a member berry Human Torch. You're basically asking Marvel to detach themselves from Disney.

>>149809128
toppest kek my sides

>>149809182
Anon, do you even have a passing familiarity with soap operas? Undoing everything that happens is literally their bread and butter.

>>149809203
There's a difference between negating story developments and bringing the devil into things.

>>149800489
The Heroic Honey-bee will always be superior to her.

>>149809226
So, what, you would have been happy if MJ aborted their baby and dumped Peter for someone else? The problem isn't the fantasy element; the problem is erasing their marriage in the first place, because they thought it'd be more interesting for Peter to be single.

>>149809203
Bitch there's a bunch of soap operas where the main couple stays married for years and even decades.
Also there's a difference in the severity of the undoing and like many have stated Spider-Man's unique appeal also depends on progression and development.

>>149799814 (OP)
OMD can always be undone. Erradicating the cancer that Miles is would be nearly impossible.

>>149809196
RDJ was 52-53 when he last played Tony Stark. And while Chris Evans was 37-38 and had at least a decade to keep playing Cap, they can't stop time and were eventually going to age out of their roles. That they got re-casted is more about Disney panicking after Phase 4 underperformed and Disney+ didn't get enough subscribers to justify the budgets for all of the Marvel properties they streamed.

If anything, whatever's left of Marvel's publishing line should have even more of an incentive to having a legit story bible to the 616 universe and knowing the end of the characters and the legacy characters that come after. Because if the MCU keeps on underperforming, then they won't be able to keep on justifying the comics line as loss leaders. Which would mean that their comic division would get shut down while the books get licensed out to the highest bidder (IDW).

>>149809313
Joe Quesada would argue that Spider-Man's unique appeal was being an awkward kid who couldn't balance real life relationships with the stress and responsibility of being a hero. And that's why they returned to the "status quo." The point is, none of this would ever have happened in the first place if characters were allowed to ride off into the sunset and have real endings, rather than being stuck in a never-ending hellscape.

>>149805079
>Edge of Time (2011)
That was Peter David, which is why the story was actually good and not just "YOU MEMBER?" and shitty jokes every five seconds like Shattered Dimensions was.

>>149809588
>Disney+ didn't get enough subscribers to justify the budgets for all of the Marvel properties they streamed
They brought the first Bendis OC into the MCU, someone whose comic book role would’ve been better suited for Tony Stark’s daughter in the MCU. Do you see anyone in Marvel Comics even marrying Tony Stark to Pepper Potts to make Morgan Stark possible? You are still asking Marvel to separate from Disney.

>>149799814 (OP)
marywh0re is an ugly person and Peter's worst partner so it was fine she got the boot. Miles has actively damaged the Spidey brand though, he should return to 1610 and stay there.

>>149809769
Meant to be accompanied with picrel.

>>149809827
To add to this, I heard that Obadiah's son was trashed in Ironheart, hence more proof that you're asking Marvel to dissociate from Disney.

>>149809769
Morgan Stark was 4 or 5 years old in Endgame. She would have been maybe 8 or 9 when Ironheart started.

And you'd bitch about a hyper-intelligent 9 year old girl the same way that you bitch about RiRi. You'd probably bitch even harder.

Asking Marvel to create a bible for the 616 isn't asking Marvel to separate from Disney. It's asking them to actually function like a comics publishing company that wants to make a profit from their comics instead of a glorified IP farm.

>>149810053
>She would have been maybe 8 or 9 when Ironheart started.
>And you'd bitch about a hyper-intelligent 9 year old girl the same way that you bitch about RiRi. You'd probably bitch even harder.
You can just say that MCU doesn't want to make OC. It's not like there's a precedence regarding this matter but with a Marvel character. No need for such a massive projection.
>It's asking them to actually function like a comics publishing company that wants to make a profit from their comics instead of a glorified IP farm.
You haven't addressed anything from our previous conversation. Only making new ones to talk about.

>>149799814 (OP)
The worst thing that happened to Peter was Marvel trying to replace him with Ben back in the 90s.

>>149809756
>Joey Q said
I don't give a fuck. His name means nothing.
>Unique appeal was being an awkward kid who couldn't balance real life relationships with the stress and responsibility of being a hero
That was part of his appeal in the beginning and it still is a part. However, those problems changing and morphing into new and different ones and some being short-term or long-term ones makes it more interesting and keeps him relevant.
Spider-Man has had a bunch of fan letters in the earliest comics debating about whether Peter should change or not. Yet, when he went to college or progressed at points, people like Joey Q still liked Peter when he was a bachelor and got to that point. People didn't drop the book in droves because it was compelling stuff. Joey Q has stated Roger Stern's run is the best like all the other BND losers. I don't blame them because it is good. But constant nostalgia is grating and depressing. There are no new ideas.
Before OMD, Peter could have progressed alongside the Marvel U but as OMD and Disassembled happened, Marvel wasn't like it once was, and continuity flew out the window. Thus, this neverending story problem began to set in. I mean sure the 616 is largely ambiguous with time passing but old Marvel had the resources and motivation to plan out an ending for that universe so that they could have then rebooted it later.
Marvel could have made Secret Wars 2015 a Crisis event that completely reset everything but it didn't.
Marvel deluded themselves into thinking their mistakes didn't necessitate a reboot. The problem is a crisis needs planning and the time between two of them has to have an era with a clear vision and effort to make it distinct from the other one with these characters being distinct and different from the last era.
Marvel is too nostalgic for their old shit because they think they are carrying on the legacy when they aren't. Who cares if the current one ended now? It isn't like Marvel at all used to be.

When is this mentally ill pedo gonna do us all a favor and 41% itself?

>>149810154
Has anybody made an ACK edit of Gwen with the web stuck to her neck instead of the noose? Might as well add the wojak stubble and glasses to make sure it's gwenpedo in the image. Maybe a Polish flag in the background as well hanging from the bridge or from Norman gliding in the background, holding it like he captured the flag.

>>149810110
Because you don't have a point or a coherent thought you fucking schitzo.

>>149810322
>you are a schizo for pointing out what I am doing

I still can't get over how Brevoort used Spider-Man 2 in his manifesto as a criticism shield when it's as anti-OMD/BND as you're gonna get
>SM2 (and the trilogy as a whole) is all about Peter growing up
>the slow beginning (which I thought was boring as a kid, but has grown to appreciate it) was all about characters rather than action, something post-BND Spider-Man has little time and patience for
>as bad as Raimi's take on MJ is (I liked her in the first movie though), she's still obviously treated as the endgame

>>149810367
>Brevoort used Tobey's Spider-Man in his manifesto as a criticism shield when it's as anti-OMD/BND
This only means that there is no Ben Reilly, only Bully Maguire. Can Brevoort even continue larp as a hack anymore?

>>149810147
None of what you're saying is wrong, but you're intentionally avoiding the root cause: comics don't end. They go on forever in a single continuity. That's not sustainable.

>>149810367
Hickman's Spider-man is basically a huge fuck you to the manifesto.
Like, do you ever wonder why all of the competent writers like Ewing, MackKay and Hickman seems happy to write Peter, but never fucking touch the main book?

>>149809025
I like how the "Anyone could be Spider-man" was trashed upon in the early days.

>>149799814 (OP)
One more day duh you doofus

Even the spider verse movies shit on one more day

>>149800931
>calling the post which critiques the storyline that led to pete getting cucked...a cuck post

You're a dumb black obsessed cuck

>>149810848
That's what editorial is there for. They hear enough fans that want Supergirl to come back then they'll bring her back if it's warranted enough response and then do it in the context of the new universe. The problem is that with each reboot there will be some people who miss an aspect of a previous DC universe. But editorial should only bend once it is important enough for something to change. Then things can be shuffled out in the next rotation and that era gets an ending that you want and can jump from.
It's only not sustainable once the immersion is broken and too much confusion elements take you away from the story. These superhero comics always going might just be not your cup of tea.
Though yeah they should put out stuff that isn't superheros or doesn't take plaxe within the DC universe or Marvel Universe.

>>149811171
>That's what editorial is there for

>>149811220
Yeah I know...

>>149799814 (OP)
So, what is Miles....Miles problems?
Like how Pete had tons of shit as Pete....and also as Spiderman, but tried his damndest to balance both?

Chasm superiority.

>>149810848
>comics don't end. They go on forever in a single continuity. That's not sustainable
Which is why they're best off relying on online multiplayer video games to scale the main engagement because those kind of games are designed to be running forever now.

>>149805800
>>149806082
Nope, wrong, the reason all those characters get pushed into the focus is because they're there to take off the heat off of Miles, since pushing just Peter and Miles would get a far bigger backlash than turning Spider-Man into a Spider-Family where Miles is the one that happens to get the most focus

The clones existed for decades and no one dared touch them with a 10 foot pole and we got tons of games, movies, cartoons, comics etc without them, so them just existing does not mean they're dragging the IP down as a whole, those characters would also fall behind and get forgotten if they weren't there to make Miles' inclusion feel less forced

Like I said EVERY game, cartoon, animated movie since Miles was made had either the multiverse or the Spider-Rangers, primarily for the purpose of pushing him, he's the hard border between solo Spider-Man being the default, to multiverse Spider-Rangers being the ONLY way Spider-Man is allowed to exist now, the Spider-Verse movie creators literally talked about including the multiverse SOLELY so people wouldn't question Miles it's not like this is baseless speculation

>>149807417
Batman and Terry McGinnis would beat the shit out of Miles, in fact Milesfags hates that people Praises Beyond instead of him because terry didnt try to backstab Bruce at every turn Miles and marvel does with Peter.

>>149810429
Only when he is fired alongside the OMDtards in 2026 Q1 now that disney isnt renewing their contracts and these fags are literally burning everything to blow up at the end of the year out of spite.
Hence the rumors of a new Battleworld event.

>>149812386
rumors?

>>149812396
Yeah ever since early this year, mostly schizoid shit, but as of late is proving to be true.
Disney isnt happy with Marvel keeping Brevoort and the other OMD/Quesada cultist retards tanking the sales and aren't renewing their contracts, while the fans are now vocal over the shitty situation 616 spider-man is rn, while Ultimate which isn't a non OMD comic outsold everything.
Plus the fact that many writers and artists at the company had enough of the manifestos, one being gail simone who voiced her criticism over certain authors using their divorce and bad relationships as fuel to ruin a character's marriage or life, and a certain individual decided to attack her on social media because of it.
And this was when people were praising USM while shitting royally on 616 as a whole, hickman, ewing, simone and most of the people at marvel RN had enough of brevoort and cebulski enforcing quedada's shenanigans for more than 20 years, DC got rid of DiDio and Harras for less.

>>149801001
>there wasn’t character assassination
Steve Rogers's original body got taken over by Captain Hydra, thanks to Red Skull's cosmic cube use. "He was always Hydra all along," even.
Current Steve is a tulpa made of people's collective idea of Captain America

>>149812465
which was retconned again as true steve, and stevil being a parallel timeline.

>>149812451
>Marvel Rebirth might actually be happening
please dont give me hopium like this
i just everything since 2007 to be like a bad timeline happening and meanwhile the real Peter Parker got transported to a different world chilling with his family
the fact that Marvel had the oppertunity to capitalise on a Spider-family but killed it early one will alwayts be their worst decision after how succesfull Damian became as a character

>>149812633
Missed opportunity for a young team of Anna-May, Valeria, Franklin. maybe Skaar and some other kids floating around doing the Young Champions bit

>>149800489
>there is no interesting spider-gwen supporting cast so she keeps making out with herself

>>149812769
keep going on like that and E-65 Em Jay is going to end up in 616 as well

I'm actually interested in cosmic spider-man stories, like I wouldn't mind another team up with adam warlock, silver surfer

>>149812769
Villains too

>>149812815
well you're in luck next arc

>>149799814 (OP)
>Still crying about OMD and Miles

Get a life.

>>149812451
If true, surprising they lasted as long as they did.
The reasonable decision for any company would be to sack these retards altogether, they're actively tarnishing the brand that costs a lot of money for no real reason whatsoever other than their personal feelings (i.e. autism).

Feels like they haven't been shilling Miles lately. Not sure if he has a solo book now, and he hasn't shown up in Amazing in forever.

>>149800982
What a dumb post, if anything allows Peter to be a parent and Miles to be the teen with teen issues.

>>149813417
now that's a retarded post

>>149813417
This anon gets it.

I hate mutliversal refugees, keep 616, to 616 inhabitants.

>>149814659
Isn’t Alpha already the “Mike Morris?”
And he sucks.

Give me Miles or Bailey.

Here’s how Paul can come back he molests Miles Morales and works his way back up to Peter gradually.

>>149815310
Paul can only defeat other Beta males like Peter. He’s not equipped to take down alpha males like Miles and Flash

>>149815442
>Sh-Sh-Shameik Moore is alpha
Miles is Paul’s rape-bait.

>>149815442
>miles
>chad

>>149815679
Rio Morales doesn’t like Peter Parker.
She loves Spider-Horse.

>>149815679
kek

>>149813400
Soon >>149800866

>>149813017
Shill spotted

>>149802518
The same thing is now happening to Spider-Gwen.
>>in OG Earth-65 she beat the Lizard to death before finding out it was Peter. Spider-Gwen is now a fugitive with her cop father chasing her.
Her cop finds out and gets into a coma.
Gwen loses her powers and has to depend on the big bad Murdock. She gets the symbiote which increases her aggression that ruins her in the public eye. Gwen’s identity is exposed. Peter’s uncle and aunt hate her.
Gwen goes to jail, gets convicted and spends a year in prison, gets beat up constantly.
Gets into shouting matches with her bandmates. Goes into 616, gets framed by Chameleon, Black Tarantula dies trying to help her.

Now in 616, after rewriting history with a cosmic cube, she gets her powers back, her identity is secret again, and her father is a cop again.

>>149799814 (OP)
Anon I need you to understand there are way worse things to have happened to Spider-Man than Miles Morales.
The Clone Saga was a travesty and Spider-Verse has been turning the entire brand into a team series about all these Spider themed heroes for a while now.

>>149811019
It was funny looking back at that one transcript of a post-OMD convention panel where someone was insistent that Peter not being married was a necessity for Spider-Man like keeping Aunt May alive and Uncle Ben dead and realizing how much Hickman's USM went against that

>>149800081
>whoever the fuck else
I got you Joe

>Spider-Man (Peter)
>Spider-Man (Miles)
>Spider-Man (Miguel) (Note: Currently moved to 616 because reasons)
>Scarlet Spider (Michael) (Note: Dead)
>Scarlet Spider (Van) (Note: Dead)
>Scarlet Spider (Patrick)
>Scarlet Spider (Kaine)
>Chasm
>Spidercide
>Doppelganger
>Shift
>Arachknight
>Arachknight 2099
>Madame Web (Cassandra) (Note: Dead)
>Madame Web (Julia)
>Spider-Woman (Jessica)
>Spider-Woman (Mattie) (Note: Dead)
>Spider-Woman (Charlotte)
>Veranke
>Green Mamba
>Araña
>Spider-Girl (Gwen Warren, don't worry about it)
>Spider-Girl (Makawalu)
>Spider-Boy
>Boy-Spider
>Silk
>Ghost-Spider (Note: Ghost-Spider has 5 clones that may or may not exist in 616 and may or may not have spider-powers due to her recent fuckery, but 1 is dead)
>Dream-Spider
>Web-Head
>Steel Spider
>Spider-Sprite
>Itsy Bitsy
>Death Web
>Taran
>Anansi
>The Great Weaver
>The Other
>The Spider Society
>Goddess
>Bride of Nine Spiders (Note: Has spider-powers but somehow no relation to all of the above...probably)
And in dead shitter villains tier, we have
>Spider-Queen and clones
>Selim
>Mindspinner
>The Thousand
>Jack
>Guardian
>Spider-X
>Tendril (was killed while being depowered so arguably doesn't count)

>>149808993
this is objectively true but spider verse 1 (not 2) is still a good movie in a vacuum.

>>149817232
No it's not

>>149817296
Yes it is

>>149816459
How do the people in charge of these characters not understand them? Or even listen to fans/demographic they care about so much?

>>149802886
>. Forty fucking years for Pym to almost fully recover goddamn

almost fully recover? are you being serious? the last time i saw pym was avengers inc and he has somehow become even crazier, but also an old man. wheres the recovery?

>>149805079

>Those were all exceptions and one-offs

theyve done annual spider verse events since the first one then spun them off with the venomverse and now are nonsensically crossing them over for some god forsaken reason in the current year.

>>149818742
Cool? We were talking about the cartoon Spider Wars episode and the two multiverse games which were all exceptions in the general solo Spider-Man lineup

>>149802269
>Gwen is a MURDERING WHORE
that's just a clone the real Gwen Stacy is dead unless maybe... *sigh* there is one possiablity left but I doubt this will turn out to be the case. It could be that body is not really Gwen and the memoies of her her being a clone are fake implanted to make think she is a clone of her. The motive would be simple whoever brought back wanted to destroy her second chance at life so he makes her think she is a clone while it turns she IS the REAL Gwen Stacy. So from them it goes on the same route as Ben reilly's story she goes on the road thinking she is a clone only to find out the truth later.

>>149818970
Gwen Stacy is dead that's just a clone. I refuse to believe that body is not a fake and they placed fake memories inside her in order to make think she is a clone.

How is it that Batman and Superman save the multiverse every weekend and are always the stars, while Spider-Man is ignored at every major event in the last 10 years?
Aren't all three supposed to be at the same level of popularity?

>>149819120
Bendis talked about a Marvel meeting where they discussed how they realized Spider-Man being white was a mistake and how to fix it, that's where the idea for Miles was born

Almost everyone that was at that meeting still works at and is in charge of Marvel

>>149799814 (OP)
this whore is gross so i'm glad to see her gone.

>>149819263
That seems too stupid to be real but I think it’s just the way they actually look at the situation

Yeah yeah, her age is in double digits so she's tool old for your tiny penis.
We've heard that before.

>>149819622
Piss off.

Seethe, pedo.

>>149819717
fuck off.

Lmao, seething childfucker.
Hope you get v&.

>a deal with the devil is better than a divorce.

Stupid Joe Q. I just saw that dickhead yesterday

>>149819120
>Ignored events
>Ben started Dark Web
>Mary Jane was taken by Moira during Hellfire massacre

>>149814589
It's funny because they did just make a bigger Batman.

>>149799814 (OP)
One More Day and it's not even close. OMD led to fucking years of "Peter Parker can't be relatable if he's happy!" bullshit and it's the reason his existence is a perpetual loop. Miles replacing Peter was because Bendis is a retard and that was rectified as he got put into his own box when future writers picked him
up.
One of these issues was fixed, the other permeated Spider-Man's existence so severely that the sales pitch for Ultimate SM that made it go gangbusters was "Peter has a family with MJ".

>>149820276
> “Peter has a family with MJ"
This is especially funny because the family’s isn’t even the main focus

>>149819382
But enough about Gwen.

>>149816564
I think u forgot Ezekiel

>>149820692
Hasn’t he been killed twice

>>149816439
Miles and Spider-Verse are worse than the Clone Saga.

>>149819759
>>149819691
Why do you keep coming here and talking at us when you never have anything to say? Is this something to do with Polish culture that I'm not aware of?

>>149821309
This is true.

>>149820625
Why do they keep trying to bring her back there are a million blonde women in Marvel to push