Thread 149811360

>6 billion dollar franchise
>Does nothing with beside make a shitty reboot no one likes and a comic that is in development hell
Ben 10 can easily compete with the likes of MHA, Naruto, JJK, and other shonen anime in sales if they actually put in 1% more effort into the series.

All they need is another bass heavy theme song and everyone will come back

>>149811360 (OP)
>6 billion dollar franchise
Carried by toys, and news flash: Kids don't care about toys anymore.

>>149811360 (OP)
it had 5 shows, 2 live action movies, and a shit ton of toys
what more could you ask for

>>149811395
The last "Canon/Mainline" show came out 10 years ago, though.

>>149811360 (OP)
Ben 10 was made cynically from ideas people were willing to throw away. it is possibly one of the least soulful action cartoons to ever get popular
that doesn't mean its bad, it just means no one who worked on any of the shows genuinely cared about what they were making other than just wanting to do a good job

its not like shonen manga where most of them started from a teen's dream
basically should be able to tell the difference between action that is chuuni and action that is made from thinking far to much about mass appeal

>>149811360 (OP)
It needs more diverse content, captivating kids isn't too hard if you get a game on Roblox. Would probably help if the new series isn't Reboot's levels of dogshit and has a level of edge.
>>149811380
They do, just not to the same extent.

>>149811409
do a good job so it furthers their career to work on something else i must add

>>149811409
>Ben 10 was made cynically from ideas people were willing to throw away
That's almost everything created that isn't indie created.

>>149811409
truthnuke
>>149811424
few cartoons were dictated by toys as hard as ben 10, ultimate aliens really existed only to drive up the sale
the show is a perfect vehicle for selling toys and all other shit, but it fails to have much of anything else

>>149811424
lots of shows start off like that, but every now and then you get a writer who makes an episode is them either really loving what they're making or really interested in exploring something about the character or the human experience

i never got that feeling from ben 10. it was content in just being a "TV-Y7 FV cartoon aimed towards boys"

>>149811467
think of it this way
its the difference between Batman TAS, and The Batman (but even then The Batman still had some great episodes where they were willing to push things)
of the earlier episodes of Batman Brave and the Bold and when the show actually got good

>>149811456
>dictated by toys as hard as ben 10
Every show and anime is like this, though. Transformers, TMNT, He-Man, Dragon Ball, Naruto, Gundam, Pokemon, and most of the moe-style anime. I swear, you guys hear one thing and run it into the ground like it's a super secret thing you just heard about and act like it's only a Ben 10 thing when in reality most popular shows do this. All cartoon shows have merch and get most of their money from merch than the actual show itself.

>>149811492
toys are always a factor for these shows, but there will be writers and creators who bleed through in wanting to make something great
the original Gundam is hugely invested in its toy sales but was also a groundbreaking and the series since the start always had something to say about its characters and the nature of humanity
Dragon Ball was a lot of Toriyama listening to his editors on what to do, but Toriyama himself is a creator who's love for certain things always bled through.
Transformers is a series that was incredibly toy centric but as the franchise aged, many of the future people who ended up working on the series genuinely loved the world

>>149811547
I know you are baiting, but are you talking about Ben 10 being only made for toys by saying there is no episode that has "deeper meaning"? If so, we had episodes like Prisoner Number 775 is Missing, which is about Guantanamo Bay and how America treats their prisoners.

>>149811578
im not baiting
its not necessarily making an episode thats "deep". just not something superficial
ben 10 just lacked a certain sauce
again, this doesn't make it bad. just something the people working on it never really sweat on if that makes sense

>>149811598
>ben 10 just lacked a certain sauce
What does that even mean? Are you confused that Ben 10 isn't a super straightforward story like most shonen or something?

>>149811614
did you even read my post?
and are you saying ben 10 isn't straight forward?

>>149811395
This. Let things die, they don’t need to be rebooted and reimagined every 5-10 years forever. That’s part of what’s wrong with comics and cartoons.

>>149811492
i don't disagree with that, but these shows had creatives that injected soul into these shows and weren't as business driven as ben 10's creative decisions were, maybe with exception of transformers, THE merch show
>dragon ball, naruto
what they have to do with this? i don't remember either making sacrifices for merch

>>149811621
Yes, you just seem to be confused about the creation of most cartoons and comics. Like I said, most cartoons are made to be profitable. Most things made by or even kickstarted by huge companies aren't some super genuine thing created out of love, most cartoons and comics are just a disposable idea because you never know what idea might take off or might not even see the light of day. Also, there is another aspect you are forgetting is that Ben 10 is being written by more than one guy or even one group of people, and there are times when a guest writer would write an episode of Ben 10 as well.
>>149811696
All of those shows I mentioned do the same thing as Ben 10, though.
>Dragon Ball
New transformation, new characters
>Naruto
New Transformation, new characters
>TMNT
New Designs for main cast, villains, gadgets, and vehicles
>Gundam
New mecha for figurine kits

>Slop
:|
>Slop Japanese
:O

>>149811774
everything seems more cynical when you just limit things to a few words
it seems like you didn't even bother reading any of my points
see here>>149811547
and here >>149811409
if you didn't watch any of those show you just wouldn't get it

obviously Dragon Ball without Toriyama got pretty soulless, and you just know when he was phoning it in, but it started from pretty soulful places
Naruto is similar

Ben 10 as a franchise was made by people just giving an idea they could easily sell off to the network and not give to much of a shit about

the original cartoons for TMNT and Transformers are pretty soulless but some of the later iterations got made by people who really gave a shit and wanted to make something special of the franchise while still loving it
He-Man eventually got handed to people who flat out hated it though
Ben 10 Omniverse gets close to reaching that level of appreciation as TMNT and Transformers but Transformers Animated is clearly the better Wyatt cartoon

a lot of Gundam shows actually do have a voice. their directors and writers understand they neeed to make a toy commercial but their voices shine through in every series as to why the franchise even stuck around despite the original series actually being a flop but quickly gaining a cult following

>>149811855
Everything you like is soulless slop unless it's some super indie product made by one dude.

>>149811880
great stuff can be made from unfavorable restrictions
ben 10 just stays in good

>>149811915
>stuff can be made from unfavorable restrictions
Every cartoon is like that, though. Everything created by mega-corpo has some restrictions.

>>149811934
have i just been talking to an ai? what the fuck

>>149811774
>Different opinion
>you just seem to be confused about the creation of most cartoons and comics

Classic /co/. They’re 100% right Ben 10 doesn’t have soul like Gundam

>>149811953
Waybig no diffs SHITdam.
>>149811950
No, I was baiting to get my numbers up.

>>149812009
why did you make this thread if you don't even want to talk about the show

>>149812021
I do, though. I need more posters to see this as a thread with actual numbers to reply in so I CAN talk about the series.

>>149812032
you do realize you're on 4chan

>>149812047
??? Most people click on threads with more posts—well, at least I do.

>>149812052
where the hell did you get that idea from

>>149812061
From myself

>>149811821
>muh slop
Some of this "slop" is older than you, braindead faggot.

>>149812273
>Its old therefore its good
I found the zoomzoom

>>149812342
>projecting this hard
Yes just by being animated on cels it means it has a higher quality than most modern stuff and "slop" is a braindead zoomer buzzword.

>>149811360 (OP)
Action cartoons were always weak in comparison to anime. Compare Totally Spies or Gi Joe with Gundam Wing
https://youtu.be/80Fba6_90I4

>>149811380
>Skibidi

>>149811855
Nta but I think some people gave a shit about the series. Especially the original had some really well directed episodes with pretty good atmosphere and I agree that Omniverse had some of the best moments in the whole series(because they learned how to use music to actually complement important moments unlike the other series, it's obvious that Wyatt was a big gainax fan). Also wouldn't cutie honey be the somewhat closest anime franchise to ben 10? They even had the airborne device malfunction like the omnitrix in one of the chf episodes.

>>149812500
it was never going to be good because of extreme censors and regulations. if you dare breach it then your show wont rerun and it would be wasted toy advert money

In the current landscape there's basically 3 possibilities for New Ben 10 stuff.
>Original Series Nostalgia
>Edgy "THIS ISN'T YOUR MOM'S BEN 10" mature rendition where Ben says FUCK and has SEX (Possibly by someone that hates the IP)
>Double Down even harder on the reboot and babify the series even more

>>149812459
Stfu weebtroon

>>149812654
anime website

>>149811380
Like kids decide that shit. How about buy them toys you cheap cunt. Take their devices away.

>>149812642
if they make a more mature ben 10 it'll probably be more likely like the Kevin Smith He-Man
just very pessimistic and mistakes subverting expectations as smart writing, and shitting on the characters as being mature

>>149812678
Western comics and cartoon board

>>149811774
>Dragon Ball
>New transformation, new characters
Come on, this one is well-known. From https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-2-shenlong-times/
>Toriyama: You’re terrible to say that, Torishima-san. Right around then was when Artificial Humans No. 19 and No. 20 appeared. You weren’t my editor or anything anymore, but you specifically called me to say, “I thought that the enemies had finally come, but aren’t these just a geezer and a fatso?” (laughs) In truth, I hadn’t had plans for anyone but No. 19 and No. 20 to appear. But there was no helping it, so I brought out No. 17 and No. 18. Then you called me up and said “What, this time it’s just some brats?” So I brought out Cell. (laughs)
There's a big difference from taking the opinions of people you've personally worked with into account and being told by marketing that such-and-such needs a new toyetic design.
You have a point with a lot of these properties. Hell, Transformers has a damn article on the wiki all about that. Pulling stuff out of your ass about other ones just hurts your case.

>>149812752
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's proven to be mistranslated in a recent interview; Torishima never had a problem with 18 and 17 being the villains, and he never forced Toriyama to make Cell or new forms for Cell.

>>149812718
mogged by anime and manga

>>149812975
Nope

>>149812979
westoid copium, all western action cartoon were never good

>>149813031
Lmao keep telling yourself that tacoshart

>>149812642
>Original series nostalgia
The only way to go is with more small-scale stakes.