Thread 149834249

they work only once or twice, then they become redundant and boring.
name a more overrated one note villain

>>149834249 (OP)
Carnage. He carnages, but noone important.

Still better than all of Superman's gallery

>>149834249 (OP)
Largely agreed but I think there's a bit more. With Freeze the potential is "what if Nora comes back". With Harvey - Batman 66 cartoon did an interesting twist. With Bane writers just forget about his supporting cast and arcs where he allied with Batman, and even Batman'd himself once.

>>149834249 (OP)
Two Face isn't even near the level of Bane or Mr Freeze, he has multiple stories he's half way decent in

>Robin Year One (other than him ignoring the coin he was fine)
>Tomasi's Nightwing
>Gotham Central
>Batman and Robin Year One

Bane's only half way decent after Knightfall in Secret Six and Simone had to change his entire character to do that, and Mr Freeze doesn't have shit beyond Heart of Ice.

>>149834249 (OP)
This happened to Clayface in the DCAU

two face works for like one origin story, one generic crime story and one story where he seems to be cured but ends up making a comeback, after that he should be retired.
Bane works for the knightfall story, after that he should end up dying, joining the suicide squad or something, or maybe go back to his native homeland and start some civil war.
Mr freeze literally only works for his origin stoey, after that he doesn't have any motivation.

>>149834358
Gotham Knights was taking the character in an intersting direction, as a foil uncomfortable ally to Batman. And then Infinite Crisis shat on that.

>>149834401
Doesn't he try to rape Talia in that one tho or am i thinking of another story

>>149834249 (OP)
What about zero note villains?

>>149834358
Ironically two-face did have an actual ending story in the Golden Age and cannabis be recurring

>>149834480
Another story. His mini with Ra's Al Ghul?

>>149834484
He did psychotically torture people, notable mentions are Catwoman's sister and Stephanie Brown. Stephanie even died from his hands before they retconned that shit

>>149834249 (OP)
Kraven and Thanos both have one story. For Kraven it's obviously TLH, for Thanos it's some variation of him almost taking over the universe/multiverse/whatever and then losing because he sabotaged himself.

Though I do think it's neat what they ended up doing with Kraven. The original Kraven is dead and will stay dead so as not to diminish the legacy of TLH, but he has a clone running around that can effectively be Kraven whenever some writers wants to use him for a less grim story.

>>149834495
what?

>>149834480
Apparently Bane did threaten to rape Scandal Savage Yes I'm imagining Bane going trough with his threat as of this moment

>>149834484
Some of his original backstory beats got lifted for the 1989 Joker.

Replace Two-Face with Scarecrow.

Harvey has had multiple stories since the 90s that are readable and has done more than just been a generic mob boss or had his origin rehashed, whereas every Scarecrow story in the same time span is just "I made a new fear toxin so how is Batman/the city going to overcome THIS o--oh they're back to normal already".

>>149834484
Black Mask has had tons of notes (torturing Steph, becoming Selina's arch, being featured in UTRH), just none of them are good.

>>149834249 (OP)
The vast majority of cape villains, DESU. The trick is making them interesting and entertaining so that even if they repeat themselves, it's a joy to watch them do the same dance. I've always said that Batman's rogues are undeservingly touted as "God Tier" because they're all one-note.
>muh chaos
>muh coin
>muh plants
>muh backs
>muh wife
and so on. None of them evolve or even change their methods and goals. They all show up to do the exact same thing, in the exact same place. And I'd argue Spider-Man's villains are like that. And Daredevil's. And most of the street level people, really. Everyone gives Iron Man a hard time, but that's because his villains actually evolve. Justin Hammer is still dead. Obadiah lived by his philosophy and an heroed. The Crimson Dynamos represent a system and thus keep changing. And so on. Iron Man uses villains depending on the story. That's not to say that he's not repeating the same exact script for 10+ years now, but there's a gradual evolution. Batman's always
>muh streets
>muh [insert psycho with a gimmick]
>muh no killin
>repeat
His villains just got good adaptations that distilled their best parts into small bites and were mass-marketed to normalfags. There's not a lot that makes them unique amongst capes. It's just that compared to Superman who's got just generic alien warlords and generic mad scientists as villains, the Batman rogues representing at least some sort of Jungian term or whatever, makes them seem more interesting.

Batman's problems is that he's too OP to be hanging around a single city. The man should've made the world his turf and thus have his enemies spread all over, with varying powerlevels and the such. As it stands, they're all locked into repeating the same dance forever, even if there is some promise.

>>149834587
* wasn’t planned to be recurring
Pool posting right now

Yeah, GA Harvey just had his face fixed and was mentally and physically healed. The next two-face was just a guy scarred while making a movie based off the first two-face.

>>149834302
Brainiac and Lex are better than all of Batman's rogue gallery in that they, especially Lex, are very malleable, but everybody else sucks so fucking bad.

>>149834358
Simone was just course correcting after John’s erased his character development in a single snap of judomaster’s back. Babe was becoming more an anti-hero before then and people complained about how random that bit was in Infinite crisis.

>>149834249 (OP)
Two-Face isn't one note at all.

>>149834734
Metallo is kind of cool though, even if he is one-note, having that note being a scary metal terminator looking cyborg powered by kryptonite

As if Stan wanted to win a bet that he could create the least interesting villain imaginable. Everything from his design to his personality and villain plans reeks of being uninspired and boring.
Somehow the attempts to edge him up with "muh rape" made him even less interesting. Now he's just a boring rape man.

>>149834708
This is why I think Wonder Woman's Ares is one of DC's best villains. From the 80s until now he has done SO much of varying evilness/antagonism with numerous different ideas and almost none of it feels particularly out of character. Simone's run is the only time he felt like he went a step backwards character wise and the way he "died" was dumb, but even then he still managed to affect the plot after he was gone. And even after Rucka softened him up with Rebirth, GWW found a way to make him an antihero antagonist in a way that felt somewhat compelling, even if her writing was lackluster.

>>149834708
Batman should be taking on the Epsteins and powerful billionaire illuminati of the world, with some slight supervillain angle. No not just tthe fucking owls and R'as. Someone who can realistically put up a long-term fight and make him actually use his resources intelligently.

>>149835000
Ra's and CoO ARE powerful global billionaires

>>149834808
Killgrave is cool. He stands out because he's so comparatively plain and down-to-earth.
There was a bunch of way less inspired mind control villains created at the time and all of them are largely forgotten, except for Hate-Monger but only for meme reasons.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Joshua_Ayers_(Earth-616)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Jason_Wyngarde_(Earth-616)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Hate-Monger_(Earth-616)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Jason_Cragg_(Earth-616)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Rabble_Rouser_(Weinberg)_(Earth-616)

>>149835060
Yes, but they are do not focus on sex trafficking. Batman needs to fight sex traffickers and pedo billionaires because that's the relevant topic of today

>>149835085
>cool
Lmao, no.
All of those are easily more interesting and memorable just at a glance.
>are largely forgotten
So is Purple Man. Nobody ever cared about him
until a garbage Netflix show where he's played by a shitty meme-actor loved by retarded 13 year old girls.
>plain and down-to-earth
What a weird way to say "boring".

I find it weird how prevalent and important Bane is to the mythos at this point, but isn't really treated like he is. He should be treated like a Joe Chill that is actually an unapologetic murdering villain. A constant scar on Bruce and the batfamily for killing Alfred, but after City of Bane, not a peep. And he shared the spotlight with fucking Flashpoint bats in that, couldn't even be the main antagonist of his own titular title.

>>149835169
>All of those are easily more interesting and memorable just at a glance.
You have to be trolling or ignorant.
>until a garbage Netflix show where he's played by a shitty meme-actor loved by retarded 13 year old girls.
You do know that show adapts a comic storyline that boosted Killgrave in the first place, right?

>>149835089
I was thinking more along the lines of people hoarding the wealth and manipulating the public discourse for realistic selfish reasons rather than grand ambitious world-changing schemes like R'as or whatever the fuck the owls have.

I don't want Batman to be all boring and realistic, he can still fight supervillains and they can still have crazy outlandish secret bases or something, but it would simply make sense for him to fight people who have lots of power and abuse it over regular Gotham villains who usually present a more short-term danger.

>>149835360
>visually interesting characters with more interesting plots and
>OR generic asshole in a suit who's boring by default
You have to be retarded
>muh Alias
Godawful fucking comic nobody outside of comic book circlejerk knew or cared about, and even then Purple Man was forgotten about even by comic fans. Cry harder.

>>149835407
>visually interesting characters with more interesting plots
Anon, you have never heard about a single one of these characters before and have never read a single comic with them. They are all generic uninspired gimmick villains. You just have a hate-boner for the only mind control Marvel villain who has a legacy.

>>149835431
>They are all generic uninspired gimmick villains
Yeah, like Purple Man. And no, anybody even remotely familiar with the X-Men is familiar with Mastermind. And I guarantee you more people have read Lee and Kirby Fantastic Four than they did pre-Miller Daredevil, rofl.
>legacy
You mean, one shitty story about a shitty Bendis OC? LMAOOOOOO.
Imagine existing since the 60s and barely having 100 appearances in the comics (and absolutely, literally none of them are any good).
Legacy, my ass.

>>149835431
Are you really going to claim Mastermind doesn't have a legacy when he was important in one of the X-Men's most famous stories?

>>149835483
One, that was almost 50 years ago at this point. Two, this storyline was adapted into movies twice and he was omitted both times. I suppose he's not completely obscure, but it's telling that even in his most famous appearance Mastermind is a secondary antagonist and not the main threat.
>>149835473
>And I guarantee you more people have read Lee and Kirby Fantastic Four
And I imagine exactly 0 of these people have had an interest in Miracle Man beyond "he kinda looks like a shittier Dr Strange".
>Imagine existing since the 60s and barely having 100 appearances in the comics (and absolutely, literally none of them are any good).
I guess Norman Osborn was a shitty villain because he didn't appear at all between Death of Gwen Stacy and Clone Saga, amirite?

>>149836180
They were floundering with the amnesia plot and after revival he suffered heavily from various cases of threat level loss or character exaggeration. If anything, Norman Osborn might be better if he had less appearances.

>>149836180
>interest
Purple Man is a shitty z-lister, so glass houses and all.
>comparing fucking Purple Man to Norman Osborn
Lmao. Just lmao.

>>149836275
You're free to keep seething every time you see Purple Man I guess

>>149836290
>noo don't call out a shitty villain that has nothing interesting about him
Lmao.

>>149834862
He's basically the same character as the lizard, but they actually pushed him as a solo lead more than you'd expect.

>>149834734
Is that why they fail to sell whereas Batman and company doesn't?

>>149834627
I've noticed that too and I don't think I've ever seen someone talk about it.

>>149834249 (OP)
Meaning they have complete story archs.

>>149834734
Bizarro is cool, I love the idea of a Superman's flawed reflection who's just inherently lesser and has to cope with that.
Mr Mxyzpltk is cool. But I love trickster reality warper villains in general, but comic readers are no fun allowed.

>>149834484
The only time I have ever given a fuck about Black Mask is in Absolute Batman and it's not even that he was particularly good there as much as it is that I thought the greater conspiracy plot was interesting.

I don't even really understand how you make Black Mask stand out though. When a massive chunk of your rogues gallery consists of...
>Rich fancy mobster
>Insane unpredictable clown mobster
>Mobster who flips a coin to make decisions
>Multiple literal regular mobsters
a generic mobster except wearing a skull mask is profoundly uninteresting and hard to do anything unique with.

>>149836574
Arkham Origins had a great way before the twist to portray him. He's a early middle ground between mobsters of old (Falcones, etc) and masked freaks.

>>149836574
make him a cult leader mobster

>>149836606
I never played that one but I like the sound of that. Using a guy like Black Mask as an early-career Batman villain to show the transitory phase between old and new forms of organized crime is a pretty great idea. It doesn't really fix the problem of him looking really lame next to the "regular" villains though, which sort of limits the time period and variety of good stories you can write that feature Black Mask in any role where he comes out looking cool

>>149836689
this is basically what absolute did

>>149834678
This. Scarecrow is a textbook one note villain. He works exactly only once for having Batman having to overcome his deepest fears after getting exposed to his gas, after that he becomes useless.

>>149834249 (OP)
You’re just not creative- how on earth is Russian steroid guy, half burnt face guy with split personality and old guy who can only survive if his body is hundreds below regular body temperature one note

>>149837834
>Bane
>russian

>>149834249 (OP)
Cassandra Nova should have been a one-and-done. Her arc ended perfectly.

>>149834249 (OP)
Real characters aren't supposed to last for 1000+ issues. It is more important to have one 10/10 story than to be a consistent 7/10 if you actually give a shit about good stories.

>>149836689
>>149836810
It's literally his original shtick with the False Face Society.

>>149836734
Easy. He's not the "transitional era" guy, he's the guy who successfully made the transition. He's neither some moribund Scorsese goombah nor some garishly dressed weirdo running boom/bust cycles against the Bats. Two-Face? Shoots himself in the foot half the time. Ventriloquist? Blockhead lucky to control a few blocks before he gets his shit rocked. Penguin? Too busy selling tshirts reminding people he's a criminal to commit crimes.

>>149838065
Anon probably mistook Bane for KG Beast

>>149838141
>One and done villain is perfectly wrapped up by the end of the story
>They become too popular and must come back
>Not even death can prevent this

>>149838262
I like this, making him the one sane man in the madhouse whose plans work out because he's not trying anything stupid. Great idea, but I don't believe modern writers are at all smart enough to actually pull this off.

For that take on Black Mask to work, he would have to be written to be extremely competent and intelligent - but in a realistic way. He would actually have to be a character that can outsmart Gotham and outplay Batman from time to time, but without the crutches that the others have to kind of handwave the fact that the writers aren't as smart as the characters they're writing. Joker especially gets away with this because he ranges from "le crazy and unpredictable" to "literally basically psychic and can always remain one step ahead because idk". Bane and Freeze get away with this because they have legitimate borderline magical abilities that can let them do bullshit someone normally can't. Penguin gets away with this because he is ungodly wealthy and connected and can just bullshit whatever out of near thin air, and that's even if he's actually doing anything besides being a borderline mook himself that Batman beats on for information.

Black Mask wouldn't have any of this unless you just aped Penguin except had him actually commit crimes. He would actually have to be written in an intelligent way and I don't trust anyone to do that

>>149838425
>Batman has to go against the GCPD to prove Black Mask has a high-placed mole in the organization
>in reality he called up a patrol car lifer riding out his pension in the boonies pretending to be the IT department and social engineered access to their internal systems

>>149838262
>It's literally his original shtick with the False Face Society.
And it went away around the time he suddenly got a skull face

>>149834594
since when? Bane was like the only guy Scandal trusted to sleep with her

>>149834249 (OP)
The problem with Two Face is that he'd be better off as an anti-hero. Everything about him screams it.

>a DA is disfigured by a horrible chemical attack, and his psyche is damaged: not only has he lost faith in others, but this event has brought out a suppressed identity he thought he had successfully hidden away
>deciding to take justice into his own hands, Harvey becomes "Two-Face", leaving his choices in the hands of chance
>will he spare the life of a crook? or will he coldly leave him to die?

>>149841186
That was originally his MO too. Heads wasn't just a neutral/safe option, it meant he'd do good. So if tails made him rob a bank, heads made him give it to charity.

>>149838262
>>149839621
I thought the False Face society was more like a criminal organization than a cult with the mask gimmick. Then in NML they go all in on being a cult when Black Mask removes the mask to get the skull face, obsessed with masks being their "true face" and being more brutal. Then after NML they just never come back since they made Black Mask more of a slasher villain mobster than a classy one after he got the skull face.

>>149834678
>>149837151
That's because you don't read Scarecrow comics. He has good stories that exist outside of fear gas spamming. Fear for Sale is a great story where Scarecrow does the complete opposite and removes Batman's fear (TNBA adapted it for "Nothing to Fear"). He does use his fear gas, but it's only to incapacitate Robin. Joker's Asylum is a fun story where Scarecrow gets treated like a horror slasher character, taking out a bunch of horny teenagers one-by-one. Again, he uses fear gas, but it's not the core of it. And of course, he's had plenty of other stories where he's used fear-related drugs, but not his fear gas.

The problem is people assume his gimmick is "fear gas". It's not. That's like saying Joker's gimmick is "laughing gas". Scarecrow's gimmick is fear, and fear gas is a tool he uses like Joker with laughing gas.

Another problem is people assume he's useless because all Batman needs to do is wear a gas mask and Scarecrow's useless, ignoring that Scarecrow can still point his attention towards innocents or anyone else. It doesn't always have to be Scarecrow directly dealing with Batman. He has stories where he attacks innocents instead, and Batman has to stop him. Or, during Underworld Unleashed where he instead attacked Hawkman and made him think he was being attacked, forcing him to attack innocents that he assumes are his opponents.

He clearly has the potential for good stories, and he's been used in good stories that don't focus on his fear gas and Batman. Writers just don't want to think creatively with him.

>>149834249 (OP)
>more overrated one note villain

>>149841321
You are correct. And then New 52 gave him mind control powers.

>>149841186
>>149841257
He should literally be an unpredictable wild card who'd ally with batman one story and the next rob a bank with zero fucks.

>>149834249 (OP)
I can't you went for the who is who of stuck plotlines

But right now two face is more stuck because harley quinn gave the other two some personality

>>149841688

>hooray, Two-Face saved that bus full of schoolchildren
>(flips a coin)
>oh no!!! Two-Face shot that police officer!
>(flips a coin)
>yay, Two-Face wrapped a tourniquet around his arm
>(flips a coin)
>oh no!!! Two-Face isn't calling 911, he's ordering a pizza!
>(flips a coin)
>yay, he's ordering pepperoni
>(flips a coin)
>OH NO HE'S ORDERING OLIVES SOMEONE STOP HIM

>>149841325
Who could write s good scarecrow?

Is there anyone they can poach from grim fairy tales?

>>149841325
The real problem with Scarecrow is that he'd work better as a psychological mindfucker villain, the classic Mad Doctor archetype. Hannibal Lecter and all that. He just keeps getting shafted because Joker (and now also Harley) monopolizes all the emotional throughlines, especially in adaptations

>Joker killed Batman's parents
>Joker was secretly the mastermind behind everything
>Joker is a tragic monster
>Joker is a sympathetic and complex soul
>Joker destroyed or damaged Batman's support structure
>Joker wants to psychologically undermine Batman

The best thing to do with The Joker is keep him as an eccentric mobster clown and nothing more. Let the other villains have their needed emotional throughlines. Scarecrow in particular should pick up from where Hugo Strange left off, acting as a psychological antagonist who wants to study and pick apart Batman's brain so Crane can successfully defeat him and conquer his own fears in the process.

>>149841759
Imagine a writer actually flipping a coin when they write Harvey rather than just forcing him to be evil all the time

>>149841852
that would be so funny

>this is the official coin we use to write two-face with
>(flips the coin)
>well, it looks like Harvey is saving that puppy
>(flips the coin)
>but he's gonna give it a stupid name
>(flips the coin)
>and now he's gonna give it cheap dog food
>(flips the coin)
>but he will let it sleep with him in his bed

>>149841838
Like hugo strange the trick to his character is that he is smart, the issue with scarecrow is that giving his look he always plays the goofball negating all fear factor, he is a credible villain with a gimmick just easier to write as jonhatan crane

>>149834249 (OP)
>DCAU Mr Freeze has a multi-episode and multi-comic issue arc telling a massive tragic story, even expanding into Batman Beyond
>Two-Face has a multi-episode buildup, fall, and rebirth, then it extends into the comics, giving one of the most interesting falls from grace
Sounds like you're a retard.

I will say about Black Mask that I enjoy the suits artists draw him in.

>>149841852
Jump the shark make him bi is asking for it

Is some sort of character development and explains why he has a hate boner for batman

>>149841878
The way to make an interesting Scarecrow formula is to either rip off Hannibal Lecter from the movies or from the series

>Crane is already behind bars for gassing students and experimenting on people. He got away with it for a long time before Batman caught him. Being in Arkham has only furthered his fixation on being Scarecrow. Batman has to go to Crane in order to help solve certain crimes. Crane even participates on Batman's adventures. Crane eventually escapes, and then continues to experiment on others. Batman then has to stop him.

>Crane is never caught for his crimes and manages to moonlight successfully as the Scarecrow. Seeking therapy, Bruce goes to Crane for help, and their dynamic becomes complex and tense as Crane attempts to manipulate Bruce into becoming a worse person, and even suspects him of being Batman.

>>149841914
Black Mask looking (and occasionally being) cool is the entire reason I want them to do something interesting with him besides Absolute Batman's first arc.

Every idea here regarding Black Mask is better than how the comics handle him.

>>149841911
No it happened I read that it was good but is like year one

It retells the same story, two face is amazingly one note for a character about two personalities why I like the harley quinn mad depictions because is mad people and that doesn't mean they just become criminally violent, they had to do crazy non violent shit

>>149841916
I wouldn't be surprised if Harvey wasn't at least a little bi. He and Bruce can come across as kinda gay sometimes. I can totally believe they were in a threesome with a woman or fooled around a little at university.

It would make Harvey's dynamic with Ivy interesting.

>>149841972
That's literally hugo strange, it has to be about not batman and crane, I would even risk a dumb ship

>>149841877
"Harvey help me stop this bank robber."
>(flips coin)
Okay
"Thanks Harvey, now I need your help to also help me stop this guy who's actually planting sarin across the city that used this bank robber as a distraction.
>(flips coin)
Nah fuck off, you got your favor for today don't press your luck.
"HARVEY!"

>>149841982
Black Mask should be a guy who transitioned to super-villainy, but what should make him emotionally engaging with audiences is how he'll occasionally spiral out of control or flip his shit at seeing how super-villainy becomes more and more esoteric and bizarre. He can't handle Silver Age shenanigans that keep popping up and throwing a wrench into his places. Eventually he snaps, goes on a violent death spiral, and then dies.

>and then he comes back and starts the whole thing all over again

>>149842003
It's already gay when he jacks off because he's stroking half of another man's penis.

>>149842019
then the solution is clear, make Crane into Strange's right hand and student who succeeds him when Strange inevitably kicks the bucket

Hugo Strange is another funny villain because he's either an evil psychiatrist or a guy who makes monster men

>>149842036

>it's another team-up event where Two-Face keeps switching sides every other page
>it's another story where Two-Face saves the day at the last minute (or ruins it)

>>149841982
kek as a kid I was obsessed with him because I thought he looked cool

>>149842084
The like idea of being a wildcard is WHY i want Two-Face to fucking actually have coinflips or at least the illusion of them rather than "i always get the evil option and never get inconvenienced by it."

>>149842066
Makes a tiny bit of sense get nonsensical glimpses into a mistery like long hallowen and am sold

>>149841982
I think Black Mask should be like Monstroso from Venture Bros in that he works a legitimate business during the day but then he slips into his villain persona when needed (and so does everyone else in the building). Almost like a Yakuza boss. Everyone KNOWS that Black Mask is up to some evil shit, but he's played his cards right enough to the point that he can basically rub his shit in Batman's face and not have to face the consequences of his actions.

>"You want to know how the Yakuza survived while the Mafia did not? The Yakuza realized that there's only one way organized crime survives, and it's through becoming corporate. Even joining the state. The Mafia dug their heels in too deep, and all the feds had to do was drop RICO in their laps."

>>149842170
He directed checkmate at some point, is actually a decent character for a red mask wannabe, but it falls into the am the villain cause am ugly trope

I always appreciate all the new ideas and spins on characters anons come up with. They're often better then official material.

>>149842252
I think the trick is not going to far, characters even one note ones have a range and playing it helps the audience engage

>>149834249 (OP)
I think the key to making Mr Freeze fit for episodic story-telling is to rip off NGE and turn him into Gendo Ikari, but go even further than that and rip off Solaris which is what every anime and video game about a dead/missing wife is pulling from. Victor's status quo is that he's constantly pulling new schemes (both noble and selfless) to save Nora and to prepare things for when she returns. But in reality, all he's doing is actually just pushing himself away from making new friends, falling in love, or being vulnerable. Maybe he has a son or daughter who's like Shinji or Rei or Asuka that he neglects.

Maybe even go full Silent Hill 2. Perhaps he actually killed Nora (out of mercy or frustration) and he's been in denial the whole time. But he thinks he can save her, and maybe it'll make things worse.

>>149837151
I dunno I always thought that was a neat angle that he and batman both prey on fear, like they both have been yellow lanterns and batman keeps stealing his gas.

>>149842336
They will have to refreeze nora

>>149842336

>in this week's issue, Victor attempts to steal a rare isotope from a Gotham lab to keep Nora's cryochamber working
>Victor then dons a disguise and joins the laboratory to swipe it, but he grows fond of the people working there, who are contributing towards space travel
>(Nora always liked space. Maybe that's why you kinda look like a spaceman. It's awfully cold up there.)

>>149834249 (OP)
>two face -friend turned psycho. phase two - friend gets locked up and eventually let go because hes reformed... but he hates batman so he turns back into a baddie. phase three - ignore phase two until you want to repeat it
two face is clearly more than one note

>>149842393
yeah, he's two note lmao

>>149842342
I want an arc where Batman accidentally gets addicted to fear gas like how Kanye got hooked on nitrous. Bruce starts huffing fear gas to conquer his fear of bats but he starts getting too violent and starts getting himself more beat up than usual. Meanwhile, Strange is taking notes.

>>149838262
>>149838425
criminal genius with a cult like mob who outsmarts batman regularly is a kino idea. he escapes the police, he hides his identity, and batman cant capture him or pin anything reasonable. and it's the only way to make black mask interesting at this point

>>149834281
>Superpowered serial killer who can't kill any important people
>>149834455
>Plot armor-powered vigilante who can't kill any important villains

>>149842431
Bat antidote manufacturing gone wrong

>>149842431
batman angrily tweets at the JL until wonder woman has to take away his phone. bruce walks around in public wearing plastic bags and crocs with a half naked selina kyle. he goes on podcasts calling out secret cabals wearing a ski mask. it could work, actually.

>>149834455
>cold hearted psycho killer who never kills the innocent and shoots up the city every night
>tragic hero with few friends and means well, but he's a lost cause because he can't be saved
he's a note and a half.

>>149842352

Nora's cryochamber is finally shut off and the story ends in different ways

>she's still sick, but Victor decides to spend what little time they both have together
>Nora is cured of her illness, and Victor gives up crime. Eventually, he dies and Nora sets up a foundation in his name.
>there was nobody in the cryochamber, she died a long time ago and Victor became delusional
>alternatively, Nora died (did Victor murder her?) and Victor stuck her in the chamber anyway
>Victor fucks with super-science or magic and Nora is freed but becomes a horrible monster or deranged thing that he has to put down

>>149842466
>Bruce starts sending anti-Atlantean and anti-alien tweets and anti-metahuman tweets
>Bruce has schizo rants about experimenting in college or his mom molesting him as a child
>Bruce makes a music video about how cool Nazi Vandal Savage was

>>149842466
What is this a bad reality show?


All this lacks is drunk lesbians

>>149842545
Bruce needs to have a Mr Frog moment where he lets out something unhinged on live TV and he gets completely deplatformed because of it

>>149834249 (OP)
>Joker not on the list
At least Bane has the capacity to do different criminal empire stuff to hurt the Bat. Joker's just the same zany shit and murder.

>>149842574
This does sound like a good joker plot

>>149842589
They should just lean into Bane as an Evil Doc Savage because that's who he was based on. Literally just make him Evil Doc Savage as his episodic gimmick. Whenever Batman goes on a globetrotting James Bond-esque adventure, it turns out Bane has beaten him to the punch or is heading to that locale as well.

>Greetings, Batman. I see you are taking to South Africa quite well.
>What are you after, Bane?
>Can't a man simply enjoy his holiday in peace?

>>149836606
>mfw playing the game and coming across the police HQ bombs that are all giftwrapped and instantly knowing the twist that's coming
What the fuck were they thinking?

>>149842639
I feel like that's cropped Wanda porn but I can't tell if that's the case.

>>149842661
No it's a cropped image of a very realistic Wanda figurine made for hot glue

>>149842635
I don't think Bane needs to be a complex serious threat, is famous enough as it is, I liked secret six Bane were he was more of a retarded father figure

>>149842710
I think you could get some mileage out of Bane as an adventure villain

>Well, we did it, Robin. We saved the rare jewel of the ancient tribe and now we can go home.
>(Bane just destablized the local government)
>God fucking damnit not again

>>149835360
He is trolling, he's a dedicated anti-purple man schizo who has been here for literal years. Still the same writing style a decade later on.

>>149842787
They go to santa prisca sometimes and it always delivers he works well on prision enviroments

>>149842095
You can never go wrong with a skull mask/face

>>149842842
>muh trolling
>muh schizo
>nobody could hate a garbage villain
Shut the fuck up, retard.

I feel like a lot of villains in general are one note. They have like 1 to 3 good stories in them before they become redundant. Look at Spider-Man. How much can you do with someone like Rhino, or the Lizard? Hell, a list of his villains are just clones of other villains he has. Shocker and Electro are the same. Vulture is just a worse Goblin. Hydroman is Sandman again. Carnage is Venom.

>>149843130
Shocker and Electro aren't even the same type and Shocker is "guy with weapons" while Electro has internal powers. Why are those to your comparison?

>>149843130
The problem isn't that most villains are one note, it's that every villain has a formula and logical characterization destined for them, a niche to fill. It's just that writers either have hateboners for villains, poor interpretations of what the villain should be, or are simply dismissive of them outright.

Shocker's got his niche as an underdog with a kind streak who picks on low-stakes heroes like Kamala Khan. He'd be right at home as a Static Shock antagonist. Occasionally he steps outside his comfort zone and shakes things up, but then goes back to his role.

The problem with Electro is that he should be a lazy-ass to parallel how Peter is hard-working and determined. If Scorpion is Peter's impulsivity and unchecked aggression, then Electro foils Peter as a brilliant but ultimately lazy and unmotivated man. Perfect for a man with electric powers, the sin of sloth.

>Max could fuck with people's brains, take over the world by manipulating the weather, or become a living railgun
>but no, that's too much work, so Max just does what's easiest and takes the path of least resistance

Max did well on tests in high school but barely put any effort into homework. He only got a job as an electrician because he was too lazy to check any of the other available jobs. He only got superpowers because he was too lazy to wear anything that would protect him from electricity.

>>149843173
I think anon's post is fucking retarded, but he does kind of have a point.
Shocker is supposed to be the kind of guy who created a dangerous weapon and a bulletproof suit in prison. While not Doc Ock level, he's clearly very smart and a gifted engineer. That alone makes him more interesting than most villains mentioned ITT. At least to me because I always believed that skills and intelligence > superpowers far as villains go.
But nobody does anything interesting with that. He's usually treated as another dumb crook for whatever hero he's fighting to beat up. So he does come off as kinda one-note.

>>149843225
so what would be his motivation to commit crimes?

>>149843276
Socioeconomical reasons

He is to rich and conceited

>>149843225
>>149843130
I'll even toss a way to make Lizard interesting.

>Lizard often sucks because he's just a bootleg Hulk with less depth
>oh no, the scientist friend became a monster, will he cure himself, remove the monster entirely, or will the monster take over

The solution is to not make The Lizard into an evil Hulk clone, but to make the Lizard into a successful Hulk.

>Curt Conners injected himself with lizard DNA to grow back his arm, and became a lizard man
>and there's nothing wrong with him, he didn't go feral or become a mad scientist
>he's just regular old Curt Conners, a friendly neighborhood college professor who's also a nine foot tall lizard man

Instead of Evil Hulk, he's now Green Beast. Peter goes to him for help with science-related problems or to fend off villains like Sauron. Curt even helps Peter out when he turns into a giant spider monster.

>>149843276
Max is a lazy man. He commits crimes because it's easier than having a job, especially now that he has godlike superpowers that he can just do the bare minimum with.

>robs a bank to get money for his apartment, to buy movies or play video games, etc
>gets arrested
>proceeds to do nothing in prison for a few weeks, then casually escapes through the telephone pole or lighting
>goes back to his apartment, proceeds to waste all his money on beer, sex, games, movies
>proceeds to rob a bank again

>>149843312
That's a good angle. Max came from a rich family while Peter came from a working-class one. Max was born with a silver spoon in his mouth but went "eh" at every opportunity his father and mother handed to him.

>C'mon, Max! Try out an instrument and see what feels right.
>Amazing! You're a prodigy at music! Which ones will you take?
>Don't wanna. Too much work. Just wanna watch movies.

>>149843326
I don't really like this Lizard angle because I firmly do not feel like Lizard is just an evil Hulk at all. Dr. Conners is Dr. Jekyll and the Lizard is Mr. Hyde. That needs to be the angle of approach for these characters and it creates a way to actually make Lizard interesting if you take it further in that direction.

They need to do what they did with Mr. Negative early on and make it so the Lizard is a true alter-ego that Conners knowns about but cannot control, and vice-versa for the Lizard. They don't share current memories entirely, but they share the memories of a shared past before the DNA infusion and vague snippets of each other's emotions and desires. Make the Lizard as intelligent as Connors but vastly more cruel, violent, and vindictive - completely removed from Dr. Connors' inhibitions and free to act on what Connors wants to do but is smart and kind enough not to. Connors needs funding but is denied? The Lizard breaks into the vault. Connors' research is being mocked by his scientific peers? The Lizard hunts them down. Connors is terrified of that side of him, but at the same time he slowly finds himself liking what the Lizard is doing. Maybe he suppresses it and remains an ally, maybe he gives in and lets the Lizard take control. Who knows. Likewise, the Lizard never takes full control of Connors because he knows he's a giant lizard man and wouldn't be able to reasonably exist full-time with a comfortable life.

While his design was horrible in The Amazing Spider-Man, they actually did the Lizard fairly well there in terms of the rest. I would very much have loved that portrayal of the character if he had the lab coat and snout instead of looking like a goomba from the old Mario movie.

>Lizard
I always liked him in the 2003 cartoon. Has a nice horror villain vibe to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tocc1a5FqnQ
It's a shame the show decided that one villain who has actual healing factor should die in his introductory episode

>>149843519
That does sound interesting. I think you could go full Jekyll and Hyde (the novel) and make it so that the Lizard is an embodiment of Curt's repressed base desires and secret feelings. His Shadow.

>>149843579
Have we ever gotten a comic where Lizard loses parts of his body and they turn into their own Lizards? Someone should do that.

>>149843631
I think they claimed a Lizard redesign in the 90s was a growth from his tail and had the original kill the later in a fight.

I watched BTAS for the first time last year. It was on when I was a kid but I didn't care about DCAU stuff.

>Mr. Freeze's first episode is okay, but it's severely overrated. All his good backstory with Nora still being preserved doesn't even appear in the episode. It makes him one of several revenge-based villains who have been wronged by others, (ie. Riddler, Two-Face, etc.), but it doesn't make him exceptional. The episode is hyped up because it turned a joke villain into a serious one but is far from the best BTAS episode. The best part is Alfred's chicken noodle soup coming in to save the day.
>Harvey Dent is better because he has an actual character arc that we see play out over time, and the episodes about rehabilitation actually do mean something. The one where he goes for surgery is one of the best, but unfortunately, he falls into the status quo after a while and who he is stops mattering entirely. He's just another run of the mill villain, much like Catwoman had a character arc before falling into a boring status quo. Caped Crusader Harvey Dent was one of his best iterations.
>Bane hardly got utilized in BTAS and I barely remember his episode. His Batman Beyond episode was more memorable.

>>149842336
>>149842505
You're missing an obvious direction. Victor cures Nora but a sob story doesn't get him off the hook for years of committing very serious crimes, so she becomes a supervillainess so they can stay together. Mr. and Mrs. Freeze.

>>149843873
That would also be fun. It can kinda be like that one series of Power Rangers where the bad guy was a Mr Freeze expy except his wife was actually a way more dangerous and evil supervillain and him curing her/freeing her just made things worse.

>"You're Jack Frost and I'm the Snow Queen!"

Maybe Nora gets ice powers or becomes an ice elemental.

>>149843898
That's basically killer frost, they tried making her a lazarus pit fire elemental, the design is cool

>>149843898
You could run it a bit more romantic; Nora has to learn how to be more heartless to survive her new situation while Victor has break down the emotional barriers that he put up.

>>149834455
>>149842451
I still don't understand why Punisher was not the guy who kills off shit level villains instead of the weird OC Scourge of the Underworld.

...they can still say Scourge was Frank all along.

>>149834708
Nah, typical supervillains can come back all day. Dock Ock, Hobgoblin, Captain Cold, they can show up pretty much any time and it always works.

The problems is when you really tie a character down to some super deep intricate story that makes up their whole persona. This is where they fucked up with Freeze and Bane. They are too damn tied to their origins that they only work in that and nowhere else. It makes no sense for them to reappear and start robbing banks again.

I wish fans and writers would put more thought into fixing Dick’s rogues

Raptor, The Judge, and Cirque de Sin/Zanni are all fairly interesting but I can’t see Judge or Cirque de Sin/Zanni ever being brought back

>>149834249 (OP)
I think two face needs a faker arc, his character has never made sense to me. Harvey is nothing like the other bat villains, he's from political money, he can stop being "two face" any time he wants. I think he should be put in a situation that exposes he's basically just a rich kid cosplaying a villain. There's no reason for Harvey to be rolling around in the shit with the other Gotham rouges and needs to be slapped back to reality.

>>149841759
>>149841852
>>149841877
>>149842084
>Two Face slowly evolves into DC's version of Tzeentch
Oh hell yes I would read the fuck out of that. He'd be incredibly interesting as a character.

>>149844437
Dixon fucked up bad when he had the run revolve around Blockbuster with 90% of the villains branching off of him and most of them being assassins.

Dixon did try to give some of them parallels to Dick but since Blockbuster was the big baddie, the parallels were mostly superficial and glossed over.

>Lady Vic
already has something there, being trained by her parents at being a merc and has a slightly sympathetic ting because she started mercing because her family was about to lose their house.
If you want to make her even more like Dick, give her two little sisters so Lady Vic is the golden child with a lot of responsibility on her shoulders, a middle child who goes against her parents and can be a supporting character to Dick (making Lady Vic antagonism more personal), and the youngest is up Lady Vic's ass and can be her sidekick if needed.

>Shrike
Evil sidekick, down to being Dick's friend when Dick was undercover at their little junior assassin compound. Dixon went the hardest for him due to having been in Robin Year One.
Keep that and separate it from League of Assassins, unkill Shrike, and have Shrike take up his master's position of being a teacher at the vengeance academy.

>Sylph
Dead parent, wanted to avenge him. Simple surface level stuff but it works.
Mostly just get rid of the fabric being the powers and instead just give her low level telepathy.

>Hella
Dead family, wanted to avenge them. Simple surface level stuff but it works.
Get rid of her gimp suit and have her be more an antihero/antivillain who Dick has to deal with.

>Tarantula and Nitewing
Sidekicks gone wrong. Nitewing is whatever and Grayson fucked up when she changed Tarantula's character into just being a creepy stalker.
A minority woman clawing her way into some semblance of power via joining the FBI and wanting to off people she feels got off scot free could've been contrasted against Dick basically falling into a silver spoon's lap and taking an oath against evil.

>>149843873
>Cold Married Couple

>>149843873
>>149843898
They already gave Nora ice powers and had her be evil, and it was shit.

>>149844437
Problem is most great villains take something from the hero (backstory/morals/personality/etc) and twist or mirror it.

Dick is so fucking bland and a generic superhero standard that it's difficult coming up with a decent villain idea.

Like its telling that James Jr is the best mirror Dick's ever had and the dude is just a generic serial killer.

>>149843519
>Dr. Conners is Dr. Jekyll and the Lizard is Mr. Hyde.
but that's the hulk

>>149844125
>Scourge of the Underworld
Never heard of him

>>149834249 (OP)
Honestly I wouldn't mind if they just retired Freeze, and either gave him and Nora a happy ending or a bitter sweet one like in Arkham Knight.
Then if they absolutely feel like "Guy with a cold gun" is someone Batman just HAS to have in his rogues gallery, they could just bring another character in to take up the name, and be a full on villain.

>>149843130
>Shocker and Electro are the same.
Not at all, Shocker is more sympathetic.
>Vulture is just a worse Goblin.
I actually think Vulture is more of a straightforward foil to Peter. Osborn is not a very good foil conceptually compared to some other Spidey rogues, he stands out because of what he was written to do but not because of something inherent to the character.
>Hydroman is Sandman again.
That one is true.
>Carnage is Venom.
Carnage was deliberately created to make Venom more sympathetic in comparison and ease the readers into his redemption. He's kinda one-note but he's meant to be a foil to Venom first and foremost, not Spidey.

>>149834678
There was a new 52 Batman crossover called Gothtopia where Scarecrow had the city, the batfamily, and batvillains believing Gotham was a utopia. Like Catwoman was Batman's sidekick, Penguin was mayor, Babs' new 52 arch was a hero, etc.

It was mediocre at best and probably would've worked better as a weekly/biweekly series instead of a crossover (where only half the batbooks had like 2 issue tie tins), but desu that is probably the most creative idea for a Scarecrow story since forever.

>>149845731
They had a full-on villain Freeze in New 52 and people seethed about that because it wasn't a hundredth Heart of Ice retread.

>>149835089
Calm down goy

>>149845912
I don't mind a villainous Mr. Freeze.
I don't want a villainous Victor Fries, and especially not one who's obsessed over a woman who he has no relation to.

>>149845812
>>149843130
I thought Hydroman was an actual psycho who kills people, while Sandman is just trying to make a buck? That's why Sandman got a short stint as a redeemed Avenger while Hydroman never gets anything.

>>149846027
>Hydroman was an actual psycho who kills people
I dunno where you got that idea from. He's just another low-profile supervillain thug.

>>149846039
I mostly remember some page where he's drowned people by going in their lungs and shit and I think he was on his way to kidnap MJ or something.

>>149835000
Batman is not a revolutionary or a contesting figure. He just helps the authorities and maintains the statu quo in his losing battle of good versus evil. He's kiddie stuff or the super cop variety and wasn't made to handle problems that he can't punch or throw in a prison. It's why comics focus more on super-villains than actual corruption.

>>149836215
That's true but under the sea of shit, he actually had good stories post-revival and is an overall enjoyable character.
Which is more than could ever be said about Purple Man.

>>149842431
Fear toxin could be made waaay scarier if he modified it, batman made aquaman afraid of water. Imagine fear toxin that makes you afraid of breathing or some similar shit

>>149845242
>not a ride or die wifey
how did Ben do it

>>149837151
Scarecrow's problem is not being one-note.
It's that he's a villain in capeshit, he can't be scary by definition so his one gimmick rings hollow.

>>149845242
Don't give her ice powers, fire powers, or anything at all. She's a normal woman caught in extraordinary circumstances who is going to ride or die for the husband she loves even if means wearing winter clothes inside the house and knocking over a couple of banks.

>>149845030
Dick needs a third category between hero and villain: asshole vigilantes. They're ostensibly on the same side but are usually at odds due to methods and goals.
>Hella
Fights against corruption through murder with no regard to proportionality or collateral damage.
>Nite-Wing
Quasi-homeless protector of the streets, mentally ill, possibly retarded, hyperaggressive, prone to snap decisions, easily manipulated, and a childish morality.
>Tarantula
Incredibly self-serving, corrupt as hell, uses, abuses, and kills people without a second thought.
>Flamebird
Competent, capable, and incorruptible. In a reversal Dick is her asshole vigilante who keeps treating her like dilettante despite her having a cape career longer than most of the Batfamily and Titans.

>>149845461
That's not true in the slightest and is one of the problems plaguing comic writing.

>>149846540
Nobody cares about Bette.

>>149845660
NTA but for the most part the hulk is a big stupid screaming retard who gets mad and hits things, mr. hyde is an intelligent criminal who represents jekyll's repressed desires and is fully capable of trickery and precise action. they aren't the same at all beyond the basic premise of a guy turning into a different guy

>>149846594
Banner's repressed desire is simply to rage and destroy, because of his emotional dysfunction.

>>149834281
As much as I love carnage he is probably the quintessential one note villain, even other marvel characters and himself are very aware of it. Even the fucking joker called him too one note for him
I really wish carnage stayed good, that angle the went with him was like one of my favorite heros ever

>>149846540
>problems plaguing comic writing
Here's my major problems with villains specifically
>designs
Great villain designs all but died out. Expect "generic suit guy" or "what the hell is this Halo wannabe armor guy" to be the most prominent. I personally blame the creators who want these characters to show up in whatever live-action slop comes out eventually and rake in royalties so they make it easier for comic-to-screen transition. Which is as boring and normalfag-friendly as possible.
>personality
Nobody can write the truly entertaining villain anymore. You get, annoying assholes trying too hard to be Joker or retards you're supposed to laugh at and not with. Or they just happen to be simply boring.
>intimidation
Nobody seems to get it right these days.
In the left corner you have villains who are written as a total joke. Bendis' Ultimate Shocker is self-explanatory.
In the right corner you have the other extreme. The unearned attempt to make your villain seem more horrifying than he is.
Kindred would be a great example. The comic tries so hard to paint him as this spooky, nightmarish being and it felt so cringeworthy and tryhard not helped by how boring he is as a character.
And then there's weird mixes. Where the villain is completely pathetic but you're supposed to find them threatening for some reason. So the writers make the villains commit edgy shit, but it also feels more like a bandaid than anything serious.

>>149834862
My favourite Batman villain when I was a kid.

>>149838331
Judge Death is like this too.

>>149846870
Kid you had some shit taste

>>149846870
Let me guess, you had a Manbat toy.
It's how I got psyopped into thinking Bane is cool

>>149846899
Animated show from the 90s. I did have the toy.

>>149844437
I think the time to read nightwing is here, god help me this will be tough

>>149834249 (OP)
Joker

>>149846540
Bettefag detected, opinion discarded

>>149846621
Problem is that in practice this usually doesn't manifest in a particularly different manner from the countless villains that are "guy transforms into mindless rage monster" besides maybe being more directed in his actions. The deeper issue is just that practically every "monster transformation" character in general more or less manifests in the same way besides Venom/Symbiotes (for obvious reasons) or instances like Orca where it's a permanent change rather than an alter-ego.

Giving Lizard the gift of malicious intelligence would make him stand out in a sea of samey Man-Bats and give him far more versatility in what he could do. He could even see use as a potential Hulk villain as a weaker but smarter analogue to the Hulk.

>>149847284
>Giving Lizard the gift of malicious intelligence
Haven't they already tried that?

>>149847449
People seemed to like him in that Gunn cartoon.

>>149847449
See >>149842964
At least he looks cool.

>>149847449
tfw something creative

The 90s gave a bunch of new content for those villians, it's more of the modern era doesn't know what to do outside rehashing older ideas.

>>149847389
If they have, I haven't read the story. He's like that in the ASM movies and save for his awful design he is pretty good there. They tend to eventually default back to just a big stupid monster though which doesn't add anything to any story realistically.

>>149847449
He's pretty popular now after Creature Commandos and probably the best character in the show with the best episode. The rest of the show was nothing special but it showed that you can actually do a lot with Dr. Phosphorus. Helps that his powers and design are awesome.

>>149846794
>I really wish carnage stayed good, that angle the went with him was like one of my favorite heros ever
First time I hear of this but it sounds pretty funny already, where can I read the exploits of Good Carnage?

>>149848191
Sixis/axis carnage(3 issues mind you), and he shows up in the main sixis event

>>149841759
If they published a story like this, that'd be the first time in years I'd actually shell money for a comic.

>>149844437
They need to bring James Jr back as his token homoerotic villain
It's really common for little gay boys to crush on their older brothers'/sisters' friends

>>149848509
The problem is that his sister is also a superhero which will automatically raise the question of "why isn't he fighting his sister?" Made worse because he's a major player in several Batgirl stories Nu52 and Rebirth.

>>149834249 (OP)
Harvey's a two-note villain

>>149841759
>>149841852
>>149841877
>>149842036
DC HIRE THIS MAN ALREADY I KNOW YOU DO BROWSE THIS BOARD

>>149848689
They do? Why haven't they used my idea for a batman comic where all of his rouge's gallery are cute monster girls and he has to date them as Bruce Wayne?

>>149836574
Someone else mentioned it. But I like the idea of Black Mask just being far more ruthless and evil than other Mobsters. The idea of Black Mask being, the mobster that still makes mobsters relevant in a city full of genuinely sick in the head villains by targeting their families for torture. Would give him enough of a unique take to make him relevant

>>149848370
Since it's such a short series I'll do a play-by-play.
>exposition dump as an intro
Off to a rocky start.
>imagines slicing mugged woman in half
>"Wait. No. That's not right."
Okay nevermind, it's good already.
>chops up muggers and belatedly wonders if he went too far
>oops he actually killed a ho's pimp
>now he's on the hook for beating up a woman
Kek what a comedy of errors. Anon, I thank you deeply for bringing this comic to my notice.
>he imitates Spidey's poses too, nice touch
>Sin-Eater plotline is kind of interesting
>I can see where things are going with the newscaster girl
6/10 I liked it. Could've compressed it a bit to do more with the pages they were given but no matter. I'll do the second issue after I'm back from work.

>>149834358
Is Robin Year One still “canon” or did Waids B&R:YO erase it?

>>149849683
Everything is canon now, as of the latest macroevent.

>>149849132
Yeah I'm glad you liked the first issue, I probably shouldn't have spoiled that page because the kid carnage is a really fun visual but whateve's
He really kinda reminds me of Superman, like that boy scout "good for the sake of good", cause regular carnage is pure evil so good carnage is pure good

>>149848722
>They do?
They do.

>>149849683
Batman and Robin Year One is set fairly early, even earlier than Robin Year One and it doesn’t seem to contradict the other
Wouldnt be too hard to make them both fit

>>149836606
Yeah, I liked it. He controls the drugs and underworld (something you can't see complete psychos like Joker and Harley doing) but is has the over the top violence and elaborate plans of a supervillain. I see him as the 'main' mob boss of Gotham, people like Two-Face and Scarface are too crazy to run it long term, eventually they'll have a self-destructive episode.

I think Great White Shark has the potential to be a similar kind of villain but he's mostly underused. But I liked the weird team-up they had going on for a while with Penguin, Black Mask, and Great White Shark.

>>149852347
The "weird gangster" subtype of Batman villains should be split between the guys like Two-Face and Ventriloquist who can't really keep a stable outfit running, and the guys like Great White Shark, Black Mask, and Killer Croc who are rational actors. I feel Penguin sits somewhere between gangster and the above-board villains who crimes are at arms length from their personal lives.

Batman villains shouldn't be endlessly reoccurring. It undermines his whole point. Superman, too. Both should be redeeming more villains more often.

>>149852550
I do actually love how penguin is in his own show, just a complete fucking basket case who acts like a mob boss
>>149852650
I agree with you but almost all of the villains are too far gone to be plausibly redeemed, or at least them actually changing through arkham is too far fetched. Maybe batman could spend time with the villains to try to help them or something
On the topic of absolute I do really hope that in absolute batman he keeps his friends even if they turn into monsters and he builds like a gotham justice league

>>149846794
I love Carnage too. There's something really funny about how he was deliberately designed to be a flat villain who's CRAAAZZYYY only for later writers to go "okay, but what if he actually DID have a fucked up childhood and he was just lying about being born evil" and then characterize him as an ubermensch. Carnage should never not be a mass murdering serial killer, but I insist he has room for depth.

You can perhaps be born with little to no empathy and maybe even come out the womb slightly feral, but cruelty is taught. The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth, and all that.

>>149853132
it used to be true. the new Batman movie gave him a huge boost.
my Italian friend who watches the Sopranos loves Penguin now

>>149853132
I like The Penguin. I like his robot penguins and actual penguin goons. I feel like an Elseworld Penguin should be a talking penguin from Gotham's zoo.

>>149853132
He works the same way as most good villains work- as a dark reflection of Batman. He's wealthy orphan but with animal motif taken more literally. The flightless bird of a penguin contrasts with the flying mammal of a bat. It's easy to see how he and his iconography holds up over time. More writers should take lessons from Batman and make the rogues dark reflections of the heroes since it is the easiest way to print kino.

>>149844458
Most modern depictions of Two Face treat him as an alter ego to Harvey, so he can't really "stop".
As somebody else mentioned though, back in his first appearance, he was more or less coping over his face and losing his girlfriend, to the point that he wasn't really evil. His face even got fixed and he went back to normal in the end.

>>149846881
He's very important to Necropolis and his return story is an important echo for Apocalypse War (Anderson talking about the psychic ramifications of Death's genocide only a few months before Dredd becomes a genocidaire).

>>149853141
I mean anon thats not super well understood as what makes someone a murderer, he could have just as easily had his "bad day" be that a bully once sneezed in his mouth. The evil for the sake of evil/emotionless psychopath doesn't fit carnage anyways though, he's always been emotional and giddy
>>149853256
People always that that, but are there any batman villains that reflect his paranoia?

>>149853132
Everyone loves Penguin.

>>149854120
What happened to oswalda cobbelpot?

>>149834249 (OP)
Nah, Two-Face has a ton of shit you could do with his gimmick and character. I'll concede that Bane and Freeze are totally one-note in most depictions, however.

>>149834249 (OP)
>name a more overrated one note villain
I can't

>all the Scarecrow bashing ITT
Man, I remember in 2018 there was a /co/ poll about favorite Batman villains and Scarecrow was #1. Did the board really change that much in 7 years or is this thread just full of contrarians?

>>149856057
It wasn't cool to like the Arkham series anymore.

>>149834678
>>149837151
You guys need to read more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJYrXGFOjdw

>>149849132
Hokay, let's pick this back up. On to issue number two.
>some surprisingly interesting (as in, at all) introspection on Carnie's part
I like how he struggles to grasp what motivates a hero, usually there's not even an attempt on the writer's part and the plot point falls asleep at the start line.
>muh White Woman Syndrome
Points deducted.
>some more on Sin-Eater I'm not enough of a comics nerd to get,
Feeling real inadequate right now.
>he fucking beats up an elderly gravekeeper thinking he was a thief and then just lets him go like nothing happened
Points reinstated. I am easily amused.
>the confession scene
>mfw the knowledge this chick is cynically manipulating a Carnage struggling to reform himself for the sake of something as banal as attention and clout makes me feel more for him than hundreds of tragic origin stories
Well played, Mr. Writer.
>for once a city-murdering menace like Carnage is treated as it should
Of course, if I hadn't turned my brain off to enjoy a cape comic I'd wonder how nobody's bringing up the confusion over how she's acting as Carnage's camerawoman without getting eviscerated and wondering if she's in league with him somehow.
>that complete disaster of an attempt at stopping a bank robbery
KEK, now I want to see him get a little girl's kitten off a tree.
>double cliffhanger outta nowhere
7/10, still thinking it could do more with the pagecount but it's quite amusing so far. It's a bittersweet feeling, as a terrible sadness overwhelms my soul as I realize Marvel will inevitably undo this plotline because hurr durr muh status quo.

>>149853971
>People always that that, but are there any batman villains that reflect his paranoia?
>that that
huh? But a paranoid villain would be some good design space that I don't think is used up currently

>>149853971
>>149856677
So what, like a villain who only do what they do because they genuinely think someone is after them?
How would you make that work in a way that isn't just your everyday druggie/schizo that the police deals with daily?

>>149856968
Former Superhero who went insane?
Or supervillain who tried to be good and save people but just couldn't trust literally anyone

>>149856383
I'm going to read issue three now. I already feel sad knowing it's all going to be for nothing.
>getting shot with fucking missiles is little more than a nuisance to Carnage
I call hax.
>another introspective scene with him not quite getting what Spidey's all about
It pains me Marvel has negative talented writers because one would get plenty of mileage out of this.
>yet more Sin-Eater stuff I'm shamefully not familiar with
>also the scene with her in his lair feels kind of padded
>Carnage finds her and Sin-Eater with completely bullshit means because we gotta wrap it up and they couldn't get better writers
It doesn't surprise me but I'm still miffed.
>villain gets beaten by the old cliche of taking too much energy
What bullshit. At least we get a decent character moment with Carnage as a consolation prize.
>and just like that the newscaster chick becomes more vile and hate-worthy than the literal mass murderer
Greetings from Kazakhstan.
>holy shit Carnage's turn to good DOESN'T get undone
Well, that was a bit of an anti-climax but overall I don't regret the time I spent reading it. 6/10, and that's my verdict for the trilogy as a whole. Anon, thanks again for bringing this to my attention.

>>149837834
Bane is a wetback you dumbass

>>149858667
hes teh best

>>149834708
Carnage and Joker had a collab? Marvel and DC can just do that?

>>149838331
Doomsday always sucked

>>149846794
>Even the fucking joker called him too one note for him
>I really wish carnage stayed good
it's ironic shitty writters later turned Joker into dc's carnage

>>149860575
Yeah? Actually there's been a bunch over the years. Although I don't think there's been one for a while, they even had a collab before separate universe were a thing

>>149858403
Sin eater hasn't been used that much so you probably got most of his deal, he's actually more important to venom because he's the reason eddies life blew up. Dark origin venom covers his side where Eddie cynically uses the serial confessiors testimony for his newspaper career and refuses to tell the cops. Spider man catches the real sin eater, Eddie blames spiderman and eddies dad tells him he's a disappointment

Every cape villain is one note.

>>149863328
Even docter one note? And his uno nota gang?

>>149863594
Probably.

>>149853132
He is classy and a mob boss at the same time, he is good.

>>149853132
Nothing wrong with Penguin. He might not be much, but he is entertaining to watch and DC knows how to use him well. Rarely is he the main villain of a story, but he works well as a supporting antagonist, red herring, source of information, or chaos element in any given story.

>>149853132
He’s a fat mob boss with a big nose
Simple enough to work in multiple stories but looks unique enough to stand out

>>149834249 (OP)
Yeah, pretty much. They all have potential to be good, but it feels like people just do Knightfall, The Long Halloween, and Heart of Ice respectively before just having them become a villain of the week.

Of this group, I feel like Bane is the easiest to make recurring if you have him focus on triumphing over his addiction. That story where he goes after the creator of Venom and destroys his cartel was pretty great.

>>149863328
How do you make it not one note?

>>149868060
By writing something that isn't capeshit.

>>149856677
Prometheus or deathstroke reflects bats' prep-time obsession. Although the former has never been a solo rogue with a dedicated arc in a batbook tmk and the latter guest stars as a glorified henchman for a greater scope villain more often than not

>>149834859
Yeah it's pretty hard to fuck up the personification of war. Basically anything you do works.

>>149841878
Yeah Scarecrow should like, have a bunch of different costumes he chooses to accentuate his fear gas. It'd be a neat way to mix things up.

>>149870151
Imagine if he had scarecrow costume versions of the JLA, like him just running around in a mock batman suit while trying to gas Bruce whayne for whatever reason

>>149841838
I'm legitimately shocked that they haven't done a story where joker when back in time, contaminated gothams drinking water to make everyone more unhinged and to explain why people are prone to putting on masks and fistfighting batman whenever something happens to them

>>149870839
Gotham is exceptional in the organized crime/corruption/street violence sense, not the costumed weirdo sense. Nothing about Gotham is much worse than Central City or Metropolis in that regard, the entire DC landscape is populated by freaks in masks doing retarded shit. Gotham might actually have less of those than normal considering a fair amount of Batman's villains are just regular criminals or mobsters

>>149852650
>>149853027
>Live in absolute shit hole gotham
>Family is brutally murdered by costumes freaks, spend every morning trying not to kill myself
>Hear knock at the door, open it to see the fucking joker, scarecrow, and other arkham fucks
>Nearly shit myself and accept death, only to see batman standing behind them
>"Anon, these former inmates have reformed themselves and have come to apologize to you" joker bats his eyes and says "we're very sowwy...."
>Try to slam the door but batman props it open with his foot,
>"anon, you need to accept their apology...and joker.. he doesn't need to see the hammer you guys used on his wife
>Just stand their crying and splutter out okay

>>149870839
No need is the joker introduction story by bob kane

>>149870794
That would actually be pretty cool.

Some people here are gonna get very mad, but it's got to be said.

>>149873041
Nobody sane would argue that Punchline is a complex or interesting character with depth and potential. They just want to have sex with her.

>>149873735
Disagree. Plenty of anons have drafted up fun plotlines for her and most of them aren't even coomer-brained.

>>149874397
Trust me they are anon is just creative with foreplay

All heroes and villains are one note and boring. Stop reading comic goyslop and get a job

What;s with retarded shitposts like?
>149875184
>149868153

>>149834249 (OP)
Bill Finger was right to want Joker to stay dead after his first appearance.

I can't get over how Cupid had one story arc 18 years ago and since then all she's done is pose in team shots of Green Arrow villains.

>>149873041
even miracle molly is better than her.

This is why comics need to drop whatever they're doing, however they're structuring their ongoing stories, and adopt a decade system;

Every decade they reboot their continuity, and start over. Plan the arca across that 10 year period and wrap then up by the last December 31st that decade.

That way, one-note characters can be exactly that. A single note. Maybe twice, as the OP proffered.

Then, you wait the decade out, if you want to see them again, reimagined in that next decade's version.

>>149843813
>The one where he goes for surgery is one of the best, but unfortunately, he falls into the status quo after a while
Bruce Timm actually drew a black and white comic to explain how post-surgery Harvey went back to crime.

>>149836350
>>149834627
Wait I did feel a couple when rewatching that a year or two ago, but what would be the whole list?

>>149878464
Disfiguring his girlfriend and making her wear a mask is what Black mask did.

>>149876743
Cupid is such a solid concept that she survives on her idea alone.

>>149876950
>miracle molly
Who?

>>149879689
>"hey kids, do you like that cool new game Cyberpunk 2077?" the character.