Thread 149875910

Why do people piss and shit their pants over Batman's no killing rule but not when almost every other comic book hero implicitly employs the exact same rule? When's the last time Spider-man killed Green Goblin because his number of victims got too high?

>>149875910 (OP)
Characters like Batman and Spider-man are pussies. Batman should had raped Joker. And Spider-man should had raped Green Goblin.

Because the Joker fucking killed a 15 year old kid after crippling and probably raping Batgirl.
Very few other heroes have villains that reach THAT level of hurting not just civilians, but important characters, and if they do don't appear as frequently.
Like when Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy they understood he had to go. Sure he came back, but they didn't have him be as frequent as the Joker is.

>>149875910 (OP)
It's a combination of factors which are as follows:
1. Batman is basically DC's biggest cash cow and the most exposed of all their characters.
2. His most recurring villain, far and away is a clown that's killed a lot of people of the past 80 years.
3. Under the Red Hood posed the question of why he doesn't just KILL the Joker, and people didn't take the "Batman is not emotionally equipped to kill people and certainly not willing to let his Ward who he failed go in for murder." as a satisfying response.
So now, killfags will never shut the fuck up about it, even though such practices have been status quo for Batman and most Superheroes longer than the killfags complaining about it have been alive.
There's probably a bit of an urge to knock Batman down peg out of frustration of him being DC's favorite IP too.

Because Batman's comics put a big emphasis on his refusal to kill.

>>149875927
Yes but there's the issue. The problem isn't Batman not killing. The problem is Joker OVER killing.

>>149875910 (OP)
because spiderman and other hero writers are smart enough to not attempt to rationalize it. they know the real reason spiderman doesn't kill is because he's a household name and people wouldn't let their kids watch spiderman movies or buy spiderman toys if he murdered every villain that deserved it. the reason batman doesn't kill is pretty much the same so when the writer pulls some mental gymnastics to try to convince you otherwise it insults the reader's intelligence.

>>149875968
>inb4 batman used to kill
he killed about 3 people for less than a year of his run
DC was also not coerced into the decision, the CCA wouldnt exist for a while, and voluntarily made the decision
bill finger, the true father of batman, agreed that this was the best direction for the character and wrote in his no-kill rule while also retconning his previous kills away

so he was only willing to kill for a very short period of time before bill finger decided that he shouldnt

>>149875927
>probably raping Batgirl

never happened

go back 2 reddit

>>149876003
this. literally just stop bringing it up.

>>149876003
>they know the real reason spiderman doesn't kill is because he's a household name and people wouldn't let their kids watch spiderman movies or buy spiderman toys if he murdered every villain that deserved it.
Parents let their kids buy Wolverine, Luke Skywalker, and Indiana Jones toys. The real reason is because dead characters are harder to market, and comics really just exist to sell merchandise nowadays.

>>149875910 (OP)
Why would a no killing rule force you to protect the joker from the spectre?

>>149876003
this. if they literally just stop bringing it up like it's not retarded as all get out people wouldn't give a shit.

>>149876033
that's retarded. let's not pretend like anybody ever stays dead in comic books anyway, batman comics or otherwise. so why not just kill the joker and then revive him in the reboot or whatever the fuck you'd do when returning any other villain?

>>149875910 (OP)
>"peak human"
>snaps a gun stock in half like it's no big deal

>>149876066
Because the real answer is they've long mythologized the No Kill Rule. Batman can't kill because it's now a core part of Batman.

>>149876033
my parents never let me get Indiana Jones anything

>>149876022
Look, I know Moore says he didn't, and by all means he didn't do it in canon...
but if you're just reading it without any knowledge of that, it really does come across like there was rape involved.

>>149875920
>And Spider-man should had raped Green Goblin

>>149875927
Yeah, imagine if Carnage was Spider-Man’s main arch-nemesis and the one who killed Gwen Stacy. People would lose their minds over Peter not killing Kasady, way more than they already do with Batman not offing the Joker.

>>149875910 (OP)
Because not every character is a Catwoman or a Dr freeze whom are barely villains, or a Clayface or two-face whom are deeply troubled but can be saved
Sometimes they are a penguin or bane that knows how to game the system to avoid death even by the state or a joker or a poison ivy whom NEED to be killed or else they WILL kill other people
Also there are others like the riddler who deserve to have his teeth punched out that pretentious subhuman

>>149875910 (OP)
Part of it is annoyance at the obvious commercialism. Every fan knows that Batman's "no kill" rule is so the get to keep reusing his rogue's gallery. I kind of like how the Joker was handled in the Animated Series. They treated him like Kenny from South Park. You'd see Joker in some impossible to escape situation that he couldn't get out of, like being eaten by sharks, blown up in a flying wing, killed by the Phantasm, among a few, and a few episodes later, he was back with no explanation of how he survived and everyone just kind of rolled with it. "It's the Joker." "I thought he died?" "Apparently not."

>>149875927
To be fair, it's heavily implied in The Killing Joke that Batman killed the Joker. And then what was intended as an AU got rolled into cannon.

>>149875927
>Joker fucking killed a 15 year old kid
Is that how old Jason was?

>>149876497
It wasn't implied, and nobody argued like that. Not until the cartoon adaptation hit the Internet.

>>149876487
>Every fan knows that Batman's "no kill" rule is so the get to keep reusing his rogue's gallery
every fan knows that the no kill rule was introduced before most of his rogues gallery was even there
it was a voluntary measure by DC after learning that the comic was primarily read by kids and which bill finger agreed made for a better story and quickly wrote it in

villains being re-used came after they had already established that batman does not kill
where joker was killed by his own knife by accident, but editorial requested they undo his death because the joker was too interesting a character to only use once
bill finger didnt agree, not because batman should kill, but because he thought it made batman look too incompetent if he kept fighting the same people over and over again
history has basically vindicated both sides, batmans rogues gallery is considered one of the best of all time, but we are literally here discussing why batman has to keep fighting them over and over

>>149876513
Yes, also just 5’3’’

>>149876487
>I kind of like how the Joker was handled in the Animated Series. They treated him like Kenny from South Park. You'd see Joker in some impossible to escape situation that he couldn't get out of, like being eaten by sharks, blown up in a flying wing, killed by the Phantasm, among a few, and a few episodes later, he was back with no explanation of how he survived and everyone just kind of rolled with it. "It's the Joker." "I thought he died?" "Apparently not."
That's how the comics used to handle it too until fairly recently.

>>149876518
There was also far less recurring villains than people think in the first few decades. Joker, catwoman, and penguin are some of the few that actually were staples. Characters would debut and then go years without another appearance

Batman doesn't have to kill for his enemies to die.

>>149876526
>That's how the comics used to handle it too until fairly recently.
NTA, I haven't read recent comics. What do they do now that's different? I assumed it was the same still.

>>149876497
Holy shit I wish this meme would die.

>>149875910 (OP)
It's straight up because he's dark and serious and brooding and in stories with serious subject matter.
They can't rationalize how a character like that would also have such a cartoony premise like him not wanting to kill anyone ever, so they basically spawn two camps - one believes Batman should kill to match the tone and setting of his stories and character, the other believes Batman stories should become less self-serious so Batman himself will seem less ridiculous.
It is, quite unironically, secondaries who can't grapple with why people like the character in the first place.

>>149875910 (OP)
>When's the last time Spider-man killed Green Goblin because his number of victims got too high?
1996.

>>149875910 (OP)
Did you read the previous issue? Anon???

>>149875910 (OP)
Green Goblin isn't killing people all the time, he's more likely to just fight Spider-Man or do normal villain stuff. The number of people he's killed himself may still be single digits, and the comics routinely act like Gwen's death is the only thing he did that anyone cares about.

>>149875927
>Like when Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy they understood he had to go.
That was more of a CCA rules thing, and the comics spent the next 20 years+ trying and failing to come up with a replacement for him.

>>149876311
People routinely bring this up while ignoring Carnage's power level makes him someone so OP and hard to kill that most of the time, Spider-Man and most other heroes couldn't kill him even if they wanted to.

>>149877017
Even that one's more heat of the moment in a life and death battle, right after Norman killed Peter's brother, than a planned premeditated execution of a villain. And it just ended up showcasing how OP Norman's healing powers are.

>>149875910 (OP)
It's a perfect storm of all the following.
>everyone knows the real reason is because they want to keep reusing the same villains without having to come up with resurrections stories, so them trying to justify it as story-driven pisses people off
>in contrast with most other characters' rogues, the majority of Batman villains are just psychos who legitimately go out of their way to kill and torture random people regardless of Batman himself, so it's not as if a few deaths are collateral, they're the goal and they're constant and numerous
>other popular all-ages superheroes like Spider-Man and Superman just never mention the no-kill rule or try to justify it, it's just a thing that's not brought up, or because their stories are more fantastical they do kill here and there and the villain comes back again
>Batman himself wants to be gritty and broody, with his stories being all about the harsh streets and spooky vampire serial killing torturers, but he himself acts like out of a Saturday Morning Cartoon while being part of a slasher or procedural, which makes him a direct contrast with other characters of the genre (Punisher, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Spawn, Crow, etc) and makes him all the more annoying
>instead of at least ignoring it, they double down on it and pretend that it's some 3deep5u characteristic and constantly bring it up, to the point where even if you wanted to ignore it you can't
They want Batman to be both edgy and broody and all heckin realistic, but also fun and whimsy and all-ages and everything inbetween. It's just retarded, and the more they try to defend it, the worse it gets.

>>149875910 (OP)
Would everyone call him Man of Murder if he killed the Joker?

>>149875910 (OP)
Because they want to be batman AND they want to kill people.

Batman fans just ain't right.

>>149876003
This + DC turning their villains into the biggest edgelords are the only reason why people make fun of Bat-autism. Somehow DC and Batfags convinced themselve Batman's no kill rule is special and interesting and it been downhill from there. Like an autistic kid who insist on acting retarded in front of the class and act outraged if the class point that out.

because even they know how retarded it is and they don't even try to hide it. in the red hood movie jason straight up asks him why not kill the one creature whose sole reason for existing is causing pain and death and batman just goes "hurrrrr i can't do that durrrrrr"

https://youtu.be/cm3Chp2u7HY?t=104

>>149876515
Grant Morrison argued like that.
https://youtu.be/8wQ2x0OKBjU?si=SNqb0lgzaI1J6t_F

>>149875910 (OP)
>but not when almost every other comic book hero implicitly employs the exact same rule?
Batman is willing to kill or nearly kill other people to stop them from killing villains even if they've murdered millions or there is a personal grudge involved.

Superman would never use his fucking heat vision to sever the neck arteries of a cop about to shoot the Joker. Wonder Woman is explicitly the most kind and loving and diplomacy focused Trinity member but she also understands some threats to peace can only be resolved with force, she always offers an open hand before a closed fist but when it's time to draw her sword she doesn't hesitate.
Batman's no-kill rule isn't just a personal code of behavior or moral guidelines like 99% of heroes, it's an absolutist maxim that he forces upon others. It's the difference between being a vegetarian and breaking into people's houses and waterboarding them for daring to put honey in their morning tea because honey isn't vegan. Batman is the psychotic vegan of superheroes.

If Batman villains were slapstick lighthearted frienemies like Flash's rogues, who have an explicit in-universe agreement not to kill any civilians in exchange for Flash not brutalizing them, it would be one thing. But Batman's villains have the highest body counts of anyone who's not a cosmic planet buster like Brainiac.

>>149875910 (OP)
Immature and morally empty edgelords get drawn in by the dark, gritty aesthetics of Batman stories, but are repelled by anything that reminds them that superheroes usually believe in something outside of snapping necks and standing around looking cool.

Batman's no kill rule isn't a moral thing, he just doesn't want to kill because he thinks taking a life means he'd have no limit and he'd kill any criminal even if they haven't killed anyone.

>>149875910 (OP)
Batman needs to travel more, in europe most murders are commited by muslim or africans with knifes and axes. yet batman still uses sharp objects like batarangs
and in america the most murders are committed by blacks and latinos with guns.
the problem clearly ain't the guns.

>>149876311
Love Clayton Crain's art.

>>149875910 (OP)
Because Batman will often take his personal feelings on the subject and impose his will on others to follow the same code.
Like a recent thread I talked about how Simon Baz once teamed up, and the whoke story Batman just kept bitching about the sidearm, even though Baz was like "You're the guy all about having a backup plan, this gun is mine. Also your car shoots rockets but a bullets are your hangup?".

Also while 60% of the time Batman is super strict and imposing, 40% of the time he isn't. And then you'll see him hang out with Red Hood or Katana who never hesitate to kill and you as a reader go "didn't you chew out Green Arrow in this other story?"

The best way to go is the Superman method, who has a personal code to avoid killing, but if we're dealing with it as the only option (Doomsday, that one time MXYPTLK went on a rampage, etc) he will do it only as a last resort, and with regret.

>>149875920
He did rape Green Goblin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-yfKg4-eA

>>149876033
Who did luke kill besides faceless storm troopers? The narrative actually does a bit of gymnastics to specifically avoid him having to kill any named characters

Not that many characters actually have that rule, they just try not to kill.
Even the public conscious' understanding of Superman now allows him to kill if he really needs to.

>>149876033
>The real reason is because dead characters are harder to market
Then how come Dragon Ball villains are still popular

>>149876621
Now Batman literally stops anyone else from trying to kill the Joker and regularly lets him escape

>>149878875
>Who did Luke kill besides the people he killed?
He blew up the Death Star.

>>149875968
>even though such practices have been status quo for Batman and most Superheroes longer than the killfags complaining about it have been alive.
Who gives a shit? It's still lame as fuck, sperg. Every other fictional hero kills and doesn't make a big deal about it. The Avengers killed all the time in the movies and people loved it. Action heroes killed and they loved it.

>>149878924
>show your son the kind of man you are
doesn’t really make sense in this context. is the writer not fluent?

>>149876175
>Batman can't kill because it's now a core part of Batman.
Nah, the movies can do whatever they want. It's a personal choice to use that element and a alot of it is to appeal to the nerds. They always like the lamest shit about a character.

>>149877263
>in contrast with most other characters' rogues, the majority of Batman villains are just psychos who legitimately go out of their way to kill and torture random people regardless of Batman himself, so it's not as if a few deaths are collateral, they're the goal and they're constant and numerous
I think that's the main point, by not killing his villains, Batman regularly causes the death of thousands of civilians

>>149878846
>Also while 60% of the time Batman is super strict and imposing, 40% of the time he isn't. And then you'll see him hang out with Red Hood or Katana who never hesitate to kill and you as a reader go "didn't you chew out Green Arrow in this other story?"
Bro told Superman that if he killed Luthor, he'd make it look like an accident to cover his ass. Bruce will let shit slide for his close friends and family. Like when Jason killed the fake Joker and Babs snitched, only for Bruce to make excuses for him.

>>149878961
He's trying to guilt-trip the dad by telling him that his son will see him as a murderer if he kills the Joker

>>149876838
>It is, quite unironically, secondaries who can't grapple with why people like the character in the first place.
Nigga, no one's gonna love the guy that doesn't kill the super evil fuck who rapes and murders everybody. They enjoy the shit where he does kill the bad guys or try to ignore that glaring flaw. You're proving how lame cape fans are with your nonsense.

>>149879010
yeah but no one says it like that in this context. he should say something like
>show your son how to be a man
or
>be a man in front of your son
or
>think about your son! be a man!
saying "show your son the kind of man that you are" isn’t grammatically incorrect but it’s connotatively dubious. it’s not incorrect, but people just don’t say it like that in this context. it’s like something you say in a romance or when playing sports.

Batman is retarded

>>149877204
>People routinely bring this up while ignoring Carnage's power level makes him someone so OP and hard to kill that most of the time, Spider-Man and most other heroes couldn't kill him even if they wanted to.
Doesn't excuse Pete from protecting him, dipshit.

>>149875910 (OP)
>NOOOOO heroes don't KILL people that has NEVER happened before!!
Why are westoids like this? Nobody cared when Goku killed Piccolo or Tambourine.

>>149876003
Also becuase Batman's a middle aged man and Spiderman is a young guy

>>149878961
>Doesn't really make sense
It does, he's saying "Show your son you're better than this"
>>149879060
All these sound really weird and clunky.
Is English not your first language?

>>149879239
Context, most people don't kill when heroes who don't have a no kill rule kill.

>>149879326
no. I don’t see how any of my examples are clunkier than the original, but whatever

>>149879239
Tambourine and Piccolo are icky monsters, Batman can kill demons and inhuman looking aliens just fine.

>>149875910 (OP)
>This is the weapon of the enemy
I guess his butler that uses guns to defend his fucking mansion while he's out playing with his clown boyfriend is his enemy.

>>149875981
>>149876003
They've done the same thing with Spider-Man. It's just casuals being casuals.

>>149879876
Why do they look like they're having an orgasm in the bottom panels

>>149879802
Home defense is different from vigilante justice.

>>149879876
This was also highly ooc. Peter becoming a moralfag with a no kill rule was done under the Shooter era. The story where Spider-Man naively wants to stop the Kingpin meanwhile the more hardened Daredevil is more realistic.

>>149878924
> no Gary don’t do it! You’ll be a monster, everyone will hate you!

>>149875927
Nah, the problem is the writers escalating the violence to such ridiculous heights

All they have to do is clearly establish that the “no kill rule” exists because it avoids making Batman a serial killer in the eyes of the FBI which would require him to dodge federal agents on top of all the other bullshit he has to deal with. That should satisfy all parties because it keeps the major villains in play without a bunch of faggoty moralizing.

>>149875910 (OP)
Because DC tried to make him dark and serious after Dark Knight, which basically contradict the whole "Grown man in a batsuit who doesn't kill and is also a detective with cool gadgets".
>But he had a GUN in the first issues!!
That was basically ditched like one year in. At that point, he already had Robin.
You now realize that those who want their dark and moody Batman with no Robin are massive secondaries.

It's multiple things
>batman writers tend to make the no kill rule into major plot points and giving very weird and convoluted ways out of the situation, so the no kill rule gets it highest visibility in the worst written plots
>this has the effect of the rule actively making the character worse as it says he is so weak willed that if he doesn't actively try to save the Joker's life at the expence of himself and others then his will is so weak that he'll just become a killing machine forever
>batman villains are rarely redeemed, so there is never a payoff to batman sparing them
>it involves batman actively and implicating defending corrupt Gotham institutions
>infinitely running series and no redeeming villains means Batman is ineffectual and goofy writing like Gotham is spoopily cursed and shit

Tbh, the no kill rule was mostly an editorial mandate. But then, he would look disgusting if he killed people while having a teenage sidekick around.

>>149881856
>implying Batman can't be dark and moody without killing
The comics and movies have done it well enough

>>149881856
Golden Age Batman WAS dark and moody. The Silver Age bullshit is what secondaries confuse for the "accurate" take, largely thanks to Adam West's show which was originally conceived as darker, but changed to a camp comedy once they realized they could only secure a morning time slot.

>>149875910 (OP)
The meta reasons outweigh the in-universe reasons for why he doesn't kill. It's simple, his rogues gallery is as big as him, and killing the Joker is almost equivalent to killing Batman himself.
Take the Pegnuin for example. The tv show about this Batman side-character was better received critically and among audiences than the main movie itself.

>>149881660
Spider-Man has committed manslaughter quite a number of times, but not once has he ever executed a villain. It would have happened in the 60s or the 70s if he was that kind of guy.

>>149876034
To show how stubborn and autistic he is about this, to the point where he doesn't care if even God's vengeance decrees the Joker as worthy of a permanent end.

>>149881993
>Golden Age Batman WAS dark and moody
For about a year or so, then it became goofy Dick Sprang giant props and gadgets.

>>149882059
But that's like someone writing Jesus Christ Superstar and trying to push it off as a sequel to Milton's Paradise Lost. The origins of the character are pretty clear, and most people prefer this approach to him simply because it fits better.
There's a reason why "dark and gritty" doesn't fit Superman and campy and wholesome doesn't fit Batman.

>>149877305
Batman would've done that himself anyway

>>149876003
This. But it's also worth noting that if we were to imagine this as a realistic scenario, the kind of vigilantism that Batman and Spider-Man do WOULD actually work quite well in real life, as criminals are significantly less likely to escape prison/mental institutions.
In the comics, the only reason the Joker escapes and never dies is because he's popular.

>>149882116
It was Kane and Finger doing a lot of these stories themselves.
People have done fine takes on both, individuals can have different preferences. When the Batman cartoon did Legends of the Dark Knight, James Tucker who went on to showrun The Brave and the Bold was thrilled because the Dick Sprang segment that started it off was finally a chance to do "his" Batman.

Crying over Batman's no kill rule is the fastest way to out yourself as a retard. The no kill rule is integral to the character of Batman outside of his very first few golden age appearances where he did sometimes kill. It's not even presented as something good and Batman doesn't claim moral superiority over heroes who do kill. Batman is an inherently flawed character who can acknowledge that he's crazy for dressing up as a bat to go on a lifelong (often one man) crusade against crime and fighting against other costumed lunatics. By having a strict codex he can separate himself from these mentally ill villains.

>>149882175
Clowns like this are why the writer's handling of the no kill rule is so destructive to Batman's character

>>149882116
>The origins of the character are pretty clear
The origins to your beloved Purple Gloves Batman was Bill Finger refusing to be assed to put in effort and plagiarizing plots from the Shadow. When he put in effort because Batman was actually going to be something. He quit killing. Funny little correlation.

>>149878924
This got me thinking about how in the Nolan trilogy, Batman went from telling Ras "I don't have to save you" to saving the Joker from falling off a building.
Or Batman in Arkham City admitting in the end he would have saved the Joker from his illness if he had the chance.
Writers really do have this hang-up about Batman killing or even just letting the Joker die for some reason, and it's not just a comic thing either.

>>149882215
Everything is a ripoff or homage to something that came before, your post amounts to nothing.

>>149882227
Joker was being saved for the sequel but Heath died

>>149882227
One of the times I agree with a Snyder take is that deep down, he likes him and wishes he would just stop murdering people so they could be friends, like how they were park buddies when Bruce had amnesia.

>>149882227
Nolan Batman underwent character development at the perfect time to keep the Joker around for a potential sequel.

>>149882215
The correlation came from the Superman radio show getting positive press and a respite from pre-Wertham comics bad types from making Superman all mom’s apple pie. The Silver Age incarnations of the characters really started there.

>>149882264
Batman wanting to redeem the Joker or seeing the Joker getting redeemed as the ultimate vindication of Batman's worldview and methods would be a good story and theme if they regularly showed Batman redeeming lesser criminals. Then it becomes an actual question for the audience/reader to decide if the Joker deserves or is even capable of such redemption.

>>149878961
Dude every little kid in the world would be OVER THE MOON to brag to all their friends "MY DAD'S THE GUY WHO GOT THE JOKER!" lmao what planet does he live on where shooting the clown is a bad thing? Kids brag about their dads being nobodies in the army or cops let alone actual heroes killing a supervillain with a seven digit body count

>>149882102
Nah, it's more like the train is about to hit the Joker's rail and Batman pushes the lever so it hits a bunch of civilians instead

>>149882043
Spiderman killed a fuckton of the inheritors and the wasp queen shit in the various spiderverse events

>>149881916
>But then, he would look disgusting if he killed people while having a teenage sidekick around.
Never stopped Japan.

>>149882328
Bro, it was dumb as shit when Naruto did it. Plus, making Batman of all characters into some redeemer dude is lame and doesn't fit. Making the brooding guy the redeemer is WEIRD.

>>149882328
Imagine if Obito had cut off his hand, it would've been so kino

>>149882518
Batman is weird. He's an autistic sperg in bat costume. And that's a good thing.

>>149875910 (OP)
didn't spider-man almost beat a man to death a couple of times and basically impale norman osborn with his goblin glider.

>>149882569
Norman impaled himself, Spider-Man just dodged it. Which is honestly the best ending to a villain in the context of a hero who doesn't want to take lives.

>>149875910 (OP)
Because Batmans villains are just that fucking evil. At some point it crossed the line from Batman not killing because he wants to set an example, to not killing because he cares more for the villains lives than their victims.
Superman was more of a hero in Injustice for putting a hole in Jokers chest than Batman ever was for the years beforehand in which he spared his life.

>>149875910 (OP)
I mean, the Grim Knight is a thing. They should just give him an ongoing series for people who want that kind of stuff. You can also just read the Punisher.

>>149882328
>if they regularly showed Batman redeeming lesser criminals.
Batman does try to redeem criminals, when he has the time to stop and talk to them. It's a fairly consistent trait.

They should just have Batman admit that the real reason he doesn't kill his villains is that he wants playtime to never end, and he doesn't actually care about justice or saving people. Just have him say "I won't kill the Joker because I don't want to get rid of my favorite toy" instead of making endless excuses.

>>149882328
He does have a few redemption success stories. There's Harley Quinn for how annoying she is. Catwoman has been bouncing between thief and vigilante for a while now. They made Poison Ivy an antihero because muh climate change. Riddler and Two-Face have had reform arcs before inevitably going bad again. Basil Karlo Clayface was part of Batman's hero team for a while. The cartoon had the ventriloquist. In Snyder's Last Knight on Earth Joker genuinely did reform and became Batman's new Robin but this was because the original Batman had gone bad and he didn't consider the clone "his" Batman and was satisfied with the defeat of the old one.
>>149882452
Those aren't human beings, it's different.

>>149882610
It's always the fucking Punisher with you dorks. No nuance in that defective brain of yours, huh?

Batman is basically a manchild who plays as a superhero to cope with the dead of his parents, why would he kill his nemesis when he can keep fighting him forever and live his fantasy as a superhero
He doesn't care how many innocent people have to die to play out his fantasy, people say that the most mentally ill character in the comic is the Joker but it's actually Batman, a mentally ill stunted man who plays pretend

>>149875927
And he cut his adopted son's throat to save the Joker.
In a parallel universe, the Joker killed millions with a nuke and Superman had to kill him because Batman still wouldn't stop his boyfriend.

>>149882518
No it wasn't. Talk no Jutsu was the redeeming quality of the show.

>>149882725
>inevitably going bad again
there's the flaw in all of it. Two-Face is especially egregious.

>>149882597
This. The issue is less batman refusing to kill under any circumstances and more that the authors have aggressively competed to write several of his villains in such an absurdly edgy fashion that it makes batman look like a clown for worrying about becoming increasingly liberal with who he kills, and it begs the question why nobody else tries to kill his rogues. Most of them are relativelu normal humans, at least normal enough you can shoot them dead. People regularly kill murderers and pedophiles, sometimes in spectacular fashion in the court room. But batman authors would have you believe that the Joker can bust out of arkham for the 12 time that month to gas an elementary school or Professor Pyg can abduct 30 people an mutilate them, and there's never going to be a relative of a victim trying to rush the stand with a glock or something.

>>149876132
It was a flimsy chink gun.

>>149883448
There have been multiple stories about people trying to kill the Joker, they always fail.

>be Gothamite
>read morning newspaper
>Joker stealing babies from their cribs and cannibalising them outside local nunnery
>again
>drive to work
>car pileup from Joker car-chase, mangled bodies strewn everywhere
>arrive late
>office building and everyone inside now fiery rubble
>part of neighbourhood Joker blew up to draw smiley face on Gotham map
>guess I'm back on welfare again
>return home to eat my dinner
>no food on table just wife dangling from a rope
>Joker called our phone number and convinced her to kill herself while I was at work (Batman Confidential #22)
>walk to kitchen to get glass of water
>water is green and burns through cup, Joker poisoned the reservoir again
>watch news while waiting for son to come back from highschool
>Joker shot up the entire place
>call youngest 6-year old daughter downstairs
>try to hold in vomit as I see her permanently, horrifically, irreparably disfigured face from joker attack - just as many gotham youths have (The Joker 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular)
>take her out for stroll on the docks
>The Joker walks up to us and shoots her in the forehead
>little girl brains all over my suit
>give the clown a light shove in retaliation
>suddenly hear "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!" from somewhere to my right
>Batarang sails through the air and slices my throat instantly
>I collapse and begin bleeding out from my severed jugular
>die happy knowing that I'm still freer than Metropocommunists

>>149883730
You don't understand. If you kill him, you'll be just like him

>>149878988
>Like when Jason killed the fake Joker and Babs snitched, only for Bruce to make excuses for him.
Three Jokers, right?

>>149883370
>Talk no Jutsu was the redeeming quality of the show.
Again, why do you nerds ALWAYS like the lamest shit? It's like y'all are allergic to cool.

>>149882532
>He's an autistic sperg in bat costume. And that's a good thing.
For other autistic spergs, but you can't market a guy like that to most people worldwide. They want brooding cool guy doing cool things.

>>149883955
>heh you are a nerd!

>>149875910 (OP)
I think it's a combination of the overall darker esthetics of Batman comics (on average obviously) and the fact that Batman comics love to tell you outright that he doesn't kill people. This is frequently delivered through Batman internally struggling with the fact that killing his villains would absolutely save the most people, basically people don't care about other heroes not killing, even though it's the same really, because the story isn't making us reflect on it other than a throwaway line about how falling from the building didn't kill thug #5 because Spiderman put a net made out of his webbing on the side in advance or whatever.

Basically Batman comics want the reader to share in the struggle of being absolutely committed to the non-lethal solution when the villain absolutely should be killed by most people's ethical accounting and kind of relate to but always be in conflict with Batman's psyche and most superheroes use the no kill thing to keep the violence, on average, at a generally palatable level.

>>149882532
>Batman is weird. He's an autistic sperg in bat costume. And that's a good thing.
That's why Michael Keaton is secretly the best live action Batman still.

>>149882748
I already said that but yeah. Just one scene where he admits (even if it's just to himself) what it's really about, just one, come on DC, have some balls.

>>149875910 (OP)
All the cope that Superman will kill when necessary is hilarious due to the outrage over the ending of Man of Steel, Brainiac can continue to steal cities and commit genocide and Superman won't even dream of killing him, same for Mongul or Darkseid.

Batman is the lamest character in fiction

>>149888287
kys supercuck

>>149876251
>it really does come across like there was rape

No it doesn't. NO ONE interpreted it that way before the internet.

>>149875910 (OP)
because it's retarded

>>149882328
Is Naruto the Steven Universe of anime?
,>annoying and retarded
>born in a magical way
>tries to redeem his enemies
>ruined his medium

Reminder that Batman literally killed Jason just to save the Joker, that's what i call true friendship.

>>149891319
That wasn't Winick's intent and the dialogue says as much, he clarified it with the movie.

Maybe it's time to retire capeshit as a concept.

>>149892152
yes, the jews are correct. there should be no heroes, unless theyre jewish.
kill your gods and heroes but DO NOT try to remove anything about jewish theology

>>149892213
Ok

God is watching, don't kill, don't disrespect your parents, don't steal

The issue is Batman's No Kill Rule comes from the Silver Age.
Joker was a dangerous madman sure but he wasn't gassing kindergartens and doing the shit he's been doing for years now.
Most of the villains were goofy individuals going around stealing Rubys and other shenanigans.
It was incredibly easy to justify his moral code.

Nowadays Batman looks like a fucking retard trying to push his code when his refusal to kill causes more death. Congrats Batman a child never has to see his parents gundowned in an alley way instead they get to watch Joker who just escaped Arkham for the 30th time carpet bomb them Joker Gas.

>>149892213
Capeshit is a jewish invention.

>>149875910 (OP)
No one cared until the joker tortured and killed his adopted son, after that it was like- bro…

>>149883730
>he actually did slice someone's throat to save the Joker
>>149891319
wew

I wish that rifle was my penis

>>149883632
So? Better to knock him out for a few months at least as some retard cultists try to revive him then to let him into the revolving door that is Arkham.

>>149883730
>Metropocommunists
Nah, it'd be Metrofascists since they believe in the ebil death penalty

Hawkeye got pissy that his wife through inaction allowed the man who raped her to fall to his death when he was just trying to kill her. That is worse than a regular no-killing rule.

>>149894633
>then
than*
fuck me i mangled that sentence

>>149882175
>It's not even presented as something good and Batman doesn't claim moral superiority over heroes who do kill. Batman is an inherently flawed character
Pretty much. Many other superheroes like Superman basically have a "I don't WANT to kill but I will if I have to" stance. A lot of people mistakenly think Superman has a "no kill rule" even though his most famous story is him beating an alien monster to death "Death of Superman".

But for Batman it's like he has a compulsion that he can't see anyone die because he is traumatized over his parents dying. It's not like something well thought out it is like a mental illness brought about by his parents death.

Which is more jarring because while a character like Superman is fighting CEOs like Lex Luther, Batman is fighting characters like the Joker that go around killing hundreds of children on a whim. So every day you don't kill the Joker is another day where multiple other people will die. And adding even more to this, there's multiple stories where Batman goes out of his way to save the Joker's life.

Like Joker finally get's the death sentence but Batman has to go out of his way to prove his innocence in court because in that SPECIFIC instance it turns out Joker didn't actually do it.

>>149894766
Joker loves having fun with Batman because he knows Batman will never kill him. But when faced with someone like the Punisher he's like "oh shit he's actually going to do it.".

>>149894811
And the following page has Batman telling Joker to run for his life. By doing this Batman just doomed multiple innocents to death because Joker will no doubt escape Arkham and go around killing people.

Congrats. There's a reason Punisher doesn't have much of a rogue's gallery when he goes after a vilain he doesn't leave the job unfinished he kills the motherfucker.

>>149894838
>There's a reason Punisher doesn't have much of a rogue's gallery
Same reason he never actually kills anyone who matters.

>>149894886
Punisher's most famous villain (yes even more than jigsaw) is probably Barracuda and they killed that motherfucker so hard he could never come back.

>>149877017
He lived through that even in the same story if I remember that correctly.

>>149891319
>that's what i call true friendship.

I call it a spoiled brat not wanting to share his toys.

>>149882481
Japan is just build different. In truth, the no kill rule comes from editorial.

because it's insanely cartoonish in a setting that tries to sell itself as being dark and gritty.

>>149875910 (OP)
I think its because Batman feels less like kids media, so it doesnt need the restraint. I think kilking would maje him boring. Its too easy. Batman would just orbital laser everyone.

>>149897431
A man who dresses up like a bat and fights crime is an inherently childish concept no matter how dark and gritty they make it.

>>149898075
They hated Watterson, because he spoke the truth.

>>149891548
Lmao. That was Winick's intent hence why it happens. It ended up not being Bruce's intent and we know that because it got clarified in a later comics. In UTH, the final is the second time Bruce aims at Jason's head and slice his throat (pic related). Next time it happens, Bruce goes mute and Joker assume Batman planned that rebound and call him an eagle-eyed marksman. End of the comic. They completely changed in the movie by having Bruce never aiming at Jason' head and not misssing his shot at the end.

>>149875910 (OP)
Because most super heros will kill if they absolutely have to, and half of them have filled graveyards with nameless goons over the years (Wolverine isn't knocking hellfire goons out with those claws of his)

Batman is somewhat special in his "absolutely, positively never kill even mass murders who will definitely get out and do it again." rule. Which is honestly so ridiculous it's worthy of being mocked.

>>149898075
Not say comic books are super serious but "traditionally speaking the women are super hot and half naked" doesn't really have anything to do with how serious or insightful the actual story is.

>>149878188
>explicitly the most kind and loving and diplomacy focused Trinity member
>Almost kills Superman like a mauled lion

So loving and compassionate(sarcasm)

>>149875910 (OP)
There is a big fucking difference between not killing your enemies and deliberately threatening to beat the living shit out of your adoptive father if he doesn't perform life saving surgery on someone who actually beat your adopted son to death with a crowbar.

>>149875910 (OP)
Gotham is portrayed as sick, twisted and corrupt in a way the Superman's Metropolis and Spider-Man's New York City aren't. Batman has to deal with mass murderers, police corruption, mafia families, ecoterrorists and rapists every day and he has to struggle not to kill them. And then there's the Joker, a deranged cult leader who is able to unite all of that scum together. Him being dead and being a martyr would be less dangerous than him still being alive at this point.

>>149898236
It wasn't a fatal wound, otherwise Joker wouldn't say that line about how he "managed to find a way to win." Batman doesn't "win" if he actually had to kill someone since the point was to not kill anyone. He did plan that banked shot. Winick's characters mean what they say, there's no ambiguous interpretation, he's not a deep writer.

>>149898412
This strip was published during the 90 with all the Liefeldian stuff.

>>149882175
>Batman doesn't claim moral superiority over heroes who do kill.
He absolutely does, he beat Jason within an inch of his life and expelled him from Gotham because Jason is on the "I don't mind killing irredeemable monsters" end of the spectrum.
The only reason Batman isn't allowed to brutalize Green Lanterns and shit for killing is lack of shared editorial

Honestly, Batman is better as a no kill rule type of vigilante. Bill Finger in fact approve of the no kill rule.
Really, its on the writer for not ever letting go of DKR and the 90's edgy atmosphere.

>>149898534
>there's no ambiguous interpretation,
Yes, Batman use non-violent violence and can slash throat non-lethally and watch people bleed to death because they're not dying. He's a special little snowflake when you know him. It's however counter-intuitive logic for anyone who doesn't have cape brainrot. It's even jarring visually. It's why it needed to be clarified and I certainly never accused UTH or Winick to be deep. I'm not even the one trying to defend his writting right now. Get coherent.

>>149898661
>Batman is better as a no kill rule type of vigilante
Nah
>Bill Finger in fact approve of the no kill rule.
Who gives a shit?

>>149875910 (OP)
the zorro would have killed the joker.

>>149898711
>t.Bob Kane

>>149898667
I don't know what you're even arguing about since it seems you agree with "It was not Winick's intent to have it look like Batman killed Jason"

>>149875910 (OP)
because for one their villains are just megalomaniacs and harm but aren't shown as serial killers most of the time
for barman they are thugs and bosses that do kill and continue to do it sfter escaping arkham even escalating the violence

>>149876003
This, Batman is a psycho that is OK with hurting people including his family, is OK with torture, is neurotic enough to make a plan to neutralize his friends yet killing is where he draws the line? give me a break

>>149875910 (OP)
Batman does not kill not because of some sort of moral code but because as soon as he crosses that line he will go completely crazy. That's the point killing has nothing to do with the cost benefit ratio society or the perpetrator deserves that it more has to do with the hero once the hero crosses that line they can't come back that's the point.

>>149898473
>beat the living shit out of your adoptive father if he doesn't perform life saving surgery on someone who actually beat your adopted son to death with a crowbar.
Wat?

>>149875927
In Millar’s Spider-Man run he had Electro killing cars of people and a bus. A lot of villains have dozens if not hundreds of deaths on their hands and they still get to run around and live. That’s just how it is in comics.

89 Batman proving he's the best batman
https://youtu.be/JdxkKvJIUz8?si=m8Jp7xXQspXIrreo

>>149875910 (OP)
Because Batman doesn't compromise on it. Even if done accidentally, Superman & Spider-man have killed before. It's a much bigger deal if Batman did that.

>>149878895
Frieza keeps coming back, Cell is a nightmare to animate and unpopular in Japan and Buu is part of the cast in Super.

>>149899255
I mean, it was written by Millar. Really, the problem is more about putting edgy stiff in medias that are most of the time aimed at an all age audience.

>>149879239
Goku spared Frieza TWICE on Namek and he still came back multiple times.

>>149894633
Joker did kind of die during Snyder’s run even if that was just amnesia. That was when Gordon was Batman.

>>149894925
Isn’t there a 616 Barracuda now?

>>149898667
If it means anything, Winick wanted Jason’s fate to be ambiguous if the story wasn’t retconned by Prime’s punch.

>>149894925
That was in a non-canon story.

>>149898853
The shock value of making it looks like Batman had killed Jason accidentaly was very much Winick's intents. That's the whole point of the batarang bouncing off the pipe. I'm arguing it's retarded to think people would brush off this scene as non lethal because Joker says "you win, Batman".

>>149899746
He banked the shot to hit him, that's why Jason didn't dodge. Joker then decides to shoot the bomb to try to make them all die rather than congratulate Batman on joining on the Jason Todd-killers club, or just shooting Batman, or simply trying to walk out. It's too bad he's never uploaded the script to this page, this is a misinterpretation as ridiculous as "Batman was strangling Joker at the end of the Killing Joke"

>>149875910 (OP)
Why did you go and posted the Batman that says his no killing rule was a mistake, and proceeds to kill the Joker

>>149875910 (OP)
>>149875927
I've said it before but the big problem with the no kill rule is I ABSOLUTELY get Bruce not wanting to kill the Joker. The STATE should kill Joker. Joker has basically killed 10x as many people as John Wayne Gacy. No way they wouldn't just kill him by firing squad after his arrest. And the only reason they don't is cuz then DC can't use the character anymore.

>>149899300
>Really, the problem is more about putting edgy stiff in medias that are most of the time aimed at an all age audience.
Except people love that shit, especially kids and teens.

>>149879876
>>149880673
This comic is way funnier if you're just picturing they're in the middle of some kinda orgy.

>>149879239
>>149899313
Goku not only spared frieza twice but if Super is to be believed (which I prefer to pretend it doesn't) Goku literally facilitated Frieza's return from the death giving him Carte Blanche to go back to oppressing planets and blowing people up.

>>149881859
I feel like nobody would mind the No Kill rule if Batman, the series had some agreed on "endpoint" Where we could get some sorta concrete finale to the story that makes all the work he's doing seem worth it.

>>149875927
So it's a problem with Joker, not Batman. Maybe he should've stuck with being a clown and coming up with creative crimes instead of being "le agent of chaos".
>b-but he always was a psychopath
And he was going to be killed off after one issue, so even then they knew letting him live wasn't the smartest idea.

Has any other single piece of media done more rehabilitate Batman's no kill rule than Arkham Shadow?
Genuine question, I wanna know.

What people aren't realizing is that the reason why Batman doesn't kill is mortephobia. Seeing his parents murdered in front of him didn't simply 'motivate' him. People tend to gloss over just how scarred Bruce was by seeing that act of lethal violence, in person, affecting him directly. His no kill rule is because he is afraid of the act of killing. Not that seeing people being killed scares him necessarily. I mean being the killer himself. It's so anathema to his psyche that he refuses to be the one responsible for killing, even when not directly doing so leads to the deaths of dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands of people. It's not enough that Batman won't kill people. He's psychologically incapable of the direct act.

>>149878618
Which is stupid. If Batman's that incapable of moral discernment, he shouldn't be a vigilante taking the law into his own hands in the first place.

It's like arguing if he punches out the Joker, there'll be nothing stopping him from punching out someone who jaywalks or parks too close to the curb.

>>149899945
He didn't kill the Joker. He snapped his neck and then Joker finished the job himself. No, the gray dialogue balloons weren't Batman's voice, Joker had a gravelly sounding voice like Batman's because Batman just wrecked his vocal cords through snapping his neck. Frank Miller is not a subtle writer.

>>149900385
Don't bother explaining this to these midwits. They will never be able to wrap their head around the concept of a mentally ill broken man acting irrationally while still being heroic.

>>149899846
>that's why Jason didn't dodge.
Nobody asked or complained about why Jason didn't dodge because 1) the reason is pretty obvious when you look at those pages. 2) Jason's ultimatum is literally "kill me if you don't want me to kill Joker" before that. Jason just wanted Bruce to be compromised, it didn't matter who he killed. Joker exploding the bomb is Winick giving Bruce and DC a way-out of this since anyone could always pretends that Jason died in the explosion caused by Joker in case they wanted to keep him dead after that.

>>149900657
Yeah he threw a gun at Batman and Batman refused to use it, because he wasn't going to kill anyone, and he didn't. It would have been the bomb that killed Jason, not Batman.

>>149900175
I have never played it so you'll have to elaborate.

>>149881750
That's pretty good, although he already deals with some fictional alphabet agencies anyway, doesn't he? You know, whatever group Amanda Waller's a part of.

>>149883448
>it begs the question why nobody else tries to kill his rogues.
Exactly. I understand keeping Batman from killing Joker because he believes he can redeem him, or because he wants to set an example, or because he thinks anyone can be rehabilitated or redeemed.
I can't buy why Bullock or Montoya or Gordon or Flass haven't put a bullet in Jokers face yet. There's not a jury who would convict them.

>>149875927
>>149875910 (OP)
>Jessica Drew broke a rapists neck.
>Nobody cares
>Captain America kills Nazis
>Nobody cares
>Ironman punches a hole in a terrorists chest
>Nobody cares
>Superman kils a superpowered terrorist to save lives.
>Batman kills Joker because he's about to release laughing gas on Gotham.
>OMG HOW DARE YOU! YOU'RE NOT A REAL HERO! NOT MUH SUPERMAN/BATMAN
Fuck off. hope that one day there's just as big a pushback against the pussies who don't want Superman or Batman to kill their bad guys as there was a pushback against them killing in the DCEU.

>>149899026
This kinda falls apart when you remember that he's stopped other people from killing villains several times (Including the punisher who does go around killing people and is doing pretty much fine).
>>149894838

>>149900857
He did get a bullet to the face. It will never kill him. As long as he moves comics and merchandise, he will never die.

I take Jason Todd's position.

No one's asking Batman to just string up every rogue he comes across but like, for fuck's sake, stop SAVING The Joker. Let the piece of shit burn if he made his own bed. Just know when you're doing the greater good by not getting involved when he sets himself up to get blown up or whatever.

>>149900027
>The STATE should kill Joker.
I actually have an idea for a comic that deconstructs the whole revolving door supervillain prison like Arkham Asylum Batmans no kill rule. A comic book that's for Joker what Death Of Superman was for him.

>>149901329
We already got Folie a Deux, no one liked it. People would rather read Joker break out a kill a dozen people each time than watch a boring movie where he gets abused and raped into submission and killed by a fellow inmate looking to make a name for himself.

>>149901367
Probably because there isn't much story in that scenario. Just a psychopath who finally got what was coming to them.

>>149901367
Whatever you say, clown boy. Now assume the position.

>>149901308
>stop SAVING The Joker.
Exactly. I can understand Batman not killing him. But there are multiple times across multiple Batman media where Batman goes out of his way to save Jokers life.
>DCAU
>Saves him when he's dangling over a pit of acid about to fall to his death
>Arkham Origins
>Catches and slows his fall when he falls out of a building
>Singlehandedly leads to every single bad thing that happens in the arkhamverse.
>Arkham City
>Tells Joker to his face that he planned on sharing the titan antidote with him if he hadn't destroyed it
>Devils Advocate
>Goes out of his way to prove Joker innocent of a crime he was framed for involving poison postage stamps
>Ironically this was written by Chuck Dixon, a pro-death penalty conservative.

>>149901502
Maybe that's the ultimate thing holding together the universe.

The day Batman stands down instead of saving Joker the multiverse collapses.

>>149901329
What was your idea? Because there's probably been a few similar cases.

Batman Begins was the right portrayal.

>I'm not going to kill you...but I don't have to save you.

Perfection. You did this. You put innocent lives in danger and I saved them from you. The fact you got caught up in your own scheme and are about to go down with it is not my responsibility. I was only here for the people who didn't deserve to die because of you.

>>149901367
The difference is that version of the joker was just a normal guy who snapped and killed a talk show host. That's evil, but not that evil.
Fans would be perfectly fine with any version of Joker other than Arthur Fleck being tortured and raped for their crimes. We had over a decade of investment in wanting to see DCAU Joker dead for some of what he did before they killed him off in Return Of The Joker.

>>149901502
Dixon loves writing Batman saving Joker stories because he finds the irony funny. He did the Punisher scene, and the Laughing Demon, where Batman put Joker in a Lazarus Pit after he had already been killed, and Last Laugh, where he gave him mouth to mouth after his heart gone out, as well.

>>149901558
That's pretty much what happened with The Batman Who Laughs.
It makes no sense that killing Joker would turn Batman into the DC multiiverses version of Sauron.

>>149900706
Go back in time and ask DC artists to not draw batarangs like sharp metalic kunais that slice through skin and bones and you would have a point.

>>149901627
But then he saved Joker in the sequel. Why not let him fall?

>>149879239
>But what about gook cartoon
>>>/mexico/

>>149901744
I'm just explaining Winick's intent. Gun = lethal. Batarang = non-lethal, no matter how lethal it looks when it's embedded in someone neck. The feedback on that scene made him change it in the movie.

>>149901777
Because apparently the justice system actually works in the Nolanverse because he didn't show up in the sequel.

>>149901850
You're just exposing some far-fetched logic. This intentionally looks like Bruce had just killed Jason because drama. It's all about the drama and a cope-out at the end.

>>149895208
He did, but a bag of bombs meant to level the Bugle thrown at someone certainly counts as murderous intent, superpowers or not.

Batman is so weak, he can't kill the Joker

All of you faggots won't stop shitting on Tynion but he was the one to write Bats finally saying "y'know what, fuck you, I'm leaving you to die" and doing just that, leaving the Joker for dead. Though granted, he still had to have his hand forced for it to happen.

>>149901685
He does all that and he still has the balls to criticize his political opponents for being soft on crime.

>>149875910 (OP)
I read that in Linkara's voice.

>>149902160
>This intentionally looks like Bruce had just killed
And I'm telling you that was not what Winick wanted. He wanted melodrama yes, but not to make it look like Batman killed Jason. He didn't draw the issue.
Additionally, if you look closely, the batarang is in his shoulder, not his neck. In fiction, shoulder wounds are always non-lethal. Unfortunately the artist did a poor job of conveying this with the perspective he chose.
>>149902376
Well yeah, reality isn't fiction and fiction isn't reality. It's just a silly story about a bat-guy and a clown.

>batman should become a utilitarian technocrat who attempts to calculate who should live and who should die so as to minimize human pain
No. If he kills Joker, where does it stop? Life does not submit to calculation and attempting to force it into a mathematical mold always leads to immense suffering.

>>149875910 (OP)
Spider-Man won't do it cause he's a bitch.
If Jessica had miscarried Luke Cage absolutely would have murdered the Green Goblin.

>>149901777
Faithful to the Joker's first appearance.
Robin yeets Joker off some high-rise scaffolding (as per tradition) and Batman saves him.

>>149903108
If his wife miscarried he would slap the fuck out of that bitch

he's just really lame

>>149875910 (OP)
Villains in capeshit comics almost always face no real lasting consequences because, just like the heroes, they are too big of names to retire permanently and actual new characters in the big 2 are apparently a big no-no. Batman just gets the worst of it because of Joker. He is comedically unsavable. He shows absolutely no remorse for murdering hundreds of thousands and is unwilling to change, but Batman still lets him live because thinks there's a chance to save him and totally not because the writers know he's the second biggest name at DC. It all comes back to status quo cancer.

>>149900790
Batman goes undercover as a prisoner at Black Gate to find out who "The Rat King" is, using his Matches Malone identity. Along the way, he befriends a kind old man named Joe who urges him to avoid living a life of violence and to turn his life around. Joe is clearly presented to the player as a changed man who is worthy of a second chance, although he's too remorseful to forgive himself for the crimes he committed as a younger man.
At the end of the game Harvey Dent reveals that Joe is actually Joe Chill, the guy who killed Bruce's parents. Harvey is going insane so he plans to kill Joe, but Batman saves him.
I think it works because it makes the no kill rule more emotional than philosophical. If the ultimate badguy of his entire life can be reformed, then in his mind anyone can be.

>>149904912
Well it also helps that the Joker actually died and (physically) stayed dead in the Arkhamverse setting. Made it feel like consquences actually mattered in that setting. Batman didn't kill joker, but he did ultimately face consequences for his crimes. Being doomed to be eventually forgotten.

>>149903108
With the exception of Spider-Man nobody seems to really give a shit if a Marvel character kills a bad guy like they do with DC characters. Captain America killed a lot of aliens in Avengers, nobody says 'not my captain america' the way they do when Superman kills an alien.

>>149902674
>Well yeah, reality isn't fiction and fiction isn't reality.
The kids reading his superhero comics internalize the morality of the superheroes. Including the softhearted liberal message that anyone can be rehabilitated, and that the death penalty and killing is always wrong regardless of context.

Because Batman goes up against Villains who explicitly keep killing, so it just makes it look like Batman is serving up civilians to his Villains as meals. Every innocent life taken by any of his Villains are on the hands of Batman and the Gotham Police Department at this point.

>>149905058
bro Dixon himself was a kid reading Batman back when rehabilitating criminals was still a common theme in the stories(if you want a quick view, watch any of the early Batman '66 episodes, they often end with a henchgirl being on her way to reform)
He still understood that it's fiction and has different political opinions.

>>149905197
I'm just saying it's weird how he himself turned into a guy who believes in the electric chair for criminals and terrorists when all of the heroes he got famous for writing don't believe in that at all.
It'd be like a Christian writing a comic book where Satan is the good guy.

>>149905232
Most people don't get their views from fiction no matter how many left/libs really want that to be the case.

BatKEK...

Realistically, what would Batman do if some random guy killed the Joker? Would he kill him? Try to revive the Joker?

>>149907058
His backstory means death was not something he could overcome, or he would.

>>149893130
imagine looking that gay when you die

>>149893130
why does this panel look weirdly sensual?

>>149907408
Robin is Batman's boyfriend

>>149907856
>Robin is Batman's boyfriend
OK, if, that's if Batman had a boyfriend it would be Jim Gordon. Robin at best is a sex toy he keeps locked up under his bed.

>>149875910 (OP)
midwits learnt he is "inspired" by the Shadow, and the Shadow kills his enemies. so they try and claim he's a kiddy version of the Shadow as a result.
contrarianism, in other words.

>>149899297
Frieza didn't come back until nearly 20 years after his death. a lot of the other villains also haven't come back, like the Ginyu Force or Dabura. Really it was just Vegeta and Buu who stuck around.

>>149878188
which is why, if DC were smart, would treat his 'no kill' rule as a character flaw. a part of his complex involving his parents' death. He doesn't kill because he's terrified he won't be able to stop once he crosses that line. He doesn't trust himself. and this indecision directly leads to innocents being harmed. Batman should be forced to confront that, grow, and change. but capeshit characters can't grow and change because they need to be congruent with what they were 70+ years ago and 70+ years from now because their stories are never allowed to end. they're Mickey Mouse with a cape; mascots, rather than characters.

>>149875927
Batman doesn’t need to kill his enemies. He needs to rape them.

>>149908033
It's not a flaw though.

>>149875910 (OP)
TDKR is one of the few Batman stories that does the no kill rule well in that it treats it less like a noble undertaking and more like a pathology. Batman spends the entire third book psyching himself up to kill The Joker because enough is enough now, this shit is retarded, he's a monster and needs to go. But when the moment comes, he can't get it over the line but Miller doesn't portray as a moral victory but a personal failure that The Joker mocks him for.

It works in TDKR because TDKR Batman is a borderline psycho. Doesn't work well with Ubermensch Bat-God.

>>149905533
Evidently not just leftys given
>>149905058

>>149877204
>That was more of a CCA rules thing, and the comics spent the next 20 years+ trying and failing to come up with a replacement for him.

I know you're right but I still love Hobgoblin and Harry as Green Goblin nonetheless

>>149908892
Harry's early 90s run as Green Goblin was great, but he could only ever work as a short term villain. He works because he's sympathetic, the story had to end with him finding redemption or death (and it ended with him getting both), because the longer he stayed a villain, the more chance that comic book threat escalation would push him past the point of no return and he'd do something so bad that he wouldn't be sympathetic anymore. It's arguable some of his schemes from after his death accomplished that, especially the Spencer run stuff.

As for Hobgoblin, he was all mystery and no substance. The mystery was dragged on years too long, and he had top-tier plot armor all that time because of the mystery, so he's one of those characters who has fans BECAUSE of the insane plot armor he had in his original run, and the mystery lasting almost 5 years, fans who think he should still be that protected forever. Now we know who he is, and it was a Literally Who? guy, there's not really anything of substance to him.

>>149905197
Do you think Gothamites secretly hate Batman but just won't say anything out of fear

>>149901685
To be fair, Last Laugh was about saving a bad guy's life so Nightwing wouldn't become a killer. Dick had been tricked into thinking Joker and his men had killed Tim, and almost killed Joker in a rage.

>>149903108
>Bendis' husbando is the one who finally takes down Norman while Peter just watches
Somehow this is a real comic Bendis convinced Marvel to publish.

>>149905045
In the comics, the Avengers had a No Killing rule in their charter, and Cap was one of the most hardline guys against killing, in the 80s they even tried to say he hadn't killed during the war. But the characters weren't as well known to normie audiences, so they didn't see anything off if the movies had them kill, while from the 2000s onwards, a lot of writers just ignored longstanding characterization on the subject of killing, Hawkeye's another notable example.

>>149908109
it should be

>>149901707
In that case it's because Joker, who knew he was about to die due to poisoning from the chemicals, had a special "Joker" toxin that hit Batman just as he died. It's not like Batman went crazy by himself, he basically just got jokerized with a special version of the toxin Joker prepared specifically in case he died in order to create a successor.

>>149875910 (OP)
I'm surprised some cop or Arkham guard just doesn't take the fall and put one in the Jokers head. Hell they probably would get off scot free. I can't imagine there is a jury in the world that would convict them.

>>149875910 (OP)
Technically his grappling hook is a gun.

I know that Jesus has forgiven me

>>149878120
has no one really thought that? i have argued with people who say he doesn't kill the joker, which tells me people thought he did. i think he did

>>149875910 (OP)

No-kill rule is fine. Where it stops being fine is when the "hero" actively saves mass murdering villains such as the Joker. THAT is not fine. When one of the most evil people ever is about to die and you prevent that with your actions, you are not a hero and you did not do a good action. You're putting your moral posturing above the lives of innocents.

Any hero who saves Joker, EVER, is evil. Every hero including extra-special nice ones Superman should just watch him die and cripwalk around the corpse. Because that is the right thing to do.

>>149902674
Writers give pointers in their scripts and pages need to be approved. As this page show >>149891319 he clearly didn't ask to "NOT makes it bloody and look like Jason had his throat slashed" or that" Batman din't stand there, watching Jason bleed to death". This artist also didn't invent drawing the batarangs like sharp throwing knives either. They wanted and were okay with it to look like this. They were just too high on bat-juices to think it would be a problem since *technically* Joker is the one who pull the last trigger

>>149903108
You will never be black, Bendis.

Why doesn't Superman just kill the Joker

>>149875910 (OP)
Because most of the time it is due to the nature of the medium. If Spider-Man kills Doc Ock or the Green Goblin then you can't use him again when you don't want to think up a new villain in a few months. This is why Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 have Green Goblin and Doc Ock dying, they're stand alone movies not comics that need a new issue every month

>>149875910 (OP)
Several reasons:

1. "Early Installment Weirdness" or whatever those faggots on TvTropes call it but how he originally killed super mutants due to him being inspired by The Shadow earlier on before his characterization was more ironed out and used as a defense by Zack Snyder/Snyderbros after BvS: DoJ came out

2. Batman had zero issues killing in the Tim Burton films.

3. Azbats brought the idea to the forefront in comics by introducing a Batman who DOES kill to try deconstructing it but it backfired with some.

4. The Dark Knight Trilogy had him be anti-killing and anti-gun, but he refused to save Ra's al Ghul at the climax of Batman Begins that was apparently controversial at the time.

5. Going back to the Azbats point, DC/WB themselves keep drawing attention to it in the comics.

6. Threat escalation, this is a natural problem for action/superhero media but it becomes harder to reconcile when it comes to the crimes of the many literal terrorists like Scarecrow, Bane, and ESPECIALLY the Joker who has murdered millions by now (and not JUST because of Emperor Joker) that makes it harder to justify him still being alive and the defenses don't make sense because Batman is a VIGILANTE who BY DEFINITION already is operating outside of the law and even WHEN the state tries to execute Joker he prevented it because he didn't commit specific crime he was being charged with and then there's the fact he goes OUT OF HIS WAY to prevent OTHERS from taking out the Joker like The Punisher, Superman, Jason Todd (who has EVERY right to hate/kill that fucking clown) and even slashed his throat with a Batarang to prevent him from killing Joker in UtRH

7. When characters DO take the initiative he gets all pissy on his moral high horse for them acting as "Judge, Jury and Executioner" like when the JLA in the DCAU sent DOOMSDAY into the Phantom Zone or in Injustice where Superman commits that unforgivable crime of killing Joker after he shot Jimmy Olsen

>>149914027
cont.

-abducted a pregnant Lois and surgically implanted the trigger of a nuke to her heart rate, pumped him full of Kryptonite laced Fear Toxin and tricked him into killing her, their unborn baby AND nuked Metropolis and harshly judged and gave him the cold shoulder for that and THEN he considered him "out of control" for wiping out fucking PARADEMONS and then hypocritically recruited Harley Quinn into his Insurgency DESPITE Clark's killing of the Joker being "unforgivable" to Bruce and treated as completely in the right throughout the games showing his hypocrisy over his love for the Joker.

8. Batman killed a LOT of people in the DCEU, specifically BvS: DoJ and that gets RABIDLY defended on top of his brandings and hits by proxy with the brandings as well as his deliberated attempt to murder Superman.

9. Batman's "No Killing" policy is EXTREMELY inconsistent as he once killed Darkseid with a gun "that only kills gods" that he used but otherwise no one should ever kill so much as a house fly or he'll flip his shit on them.

10. Joker has tortured and murdered Jason Todd, shot/crippled Barbara and sexually assaulted (not necessarily raped) but still SA'd her by stripping her nude and photographing her and doing the same to her father to break their minds/spirits for his "One Bad Day" self-gratifying bullshit philosophy, murdered Jim Gordon's wife while taking a bunch of babies hostage and committed dozens, if not hundreds of sadistic acts of torture, murder and domestic terrorism, yet hasn't been put down like a dog the ONLY time there was a halfway decent explanation for this was when Bruce actually WAS going to kill him post-Jason murder where he had diplomatic immunity as the ambassador of Iran or some other middle eastern shithole.

It's no wonder fans are frustrated by the myopic nature of this supposedly hardline rule and how the universe bends over backwards to keep Joker alive or bring him back on the rare occasions he actually DOES die.

>>149914027
>>149914057
>abducted a pregnant Lois and surgically implanted the trigger of a nuke to her heart rate, pumped him full of Kryptonite laced Fear Toxin and tricked him into killing her, their unborn baby AND nuked Metropolis
Wait that happened?

>>149907058
He would give him Joker gas and then turn him into the Joker

>>149902357
>Though granted, he still had to have his hand forced for it to happen.
Based Harley.

>>149875910 (OP)
Retards against Batman's no kill rule miss the fucking point. It's the goverment's fault. Batman isn't saying Joker shouldn't die, he's saying he isn't judge jury and executioner. Joker should have a trial by the US government and then be put to death somewhere safe. It isn't his fault the DC universe has shit governments

Any story that has Batman kill people, except the Burton films because they don't really have him as the protagonist, are just shit Batman stories.

>>149904912
If only Arkham Shadow wasn't a woke-ass game that made Arkham Harley ONCE AGAIN a victim despite her being a total psycho, made Batman rely on the black girlboss doctor for all his shit and on the black Ratcatcher to find Harvey, and basically justified the Rat cult and even put fucking DICK GRAYSON in it for some reason.
Oh and the entire plotline about needing to be more compassionate and have more allies is literally the Origins story. It's like Origins and Cold Cold Heart never happened, Batman is still in his Year One phase despite this being Year Three. He even pushes Barbara away even though there's the clear implication that her work with Batman in Origins to destroy Penguin's supply crates leads to her becoming Oracle before becoming Batgirl (and then getting shot and returning back to Oracle)

>>149914951
Honestly Arkham Harley being pure evil was one of the few thing I disliked about the Arkham games, so I was happy to see them make her more sympathetic.

>>149915400
Arkham Harley being evil made her special. I'm so tired of feminists ruining her by shipping her with Poison Ivy and making her an activist who's actually mistaken and is a good girl underneath

Classic Arkham subverts it by actually making her a psycho like the Joker, which is far more reasonable

>>149913678
You overestimate how much of a fuck is given in the production of these comics.

>>149914057
>It's no wonder fans are frustrated by the myopic nature of this supposedly hardline rule and how the universe bends over backwards to keep Joker alive
What's weird is this obsession with heroes not killing regardless of how evil the villainis, only applies to Superhero stories. This one genre of entertainment.

People would rightfully say it's stupid if fans online reacted the same way to Superman killing Zod in Man Of Steel or any comic where Batman kills Joker about a hero like Aragorn or Jon Snow killing orcs in a fantasy show, or the jedi killing people in every single star wars movie.

>>149915400
They gave her some nuance in the Harley Quinn DLC for Arkham Knight. You hear her internal monologue there where she starts to show some regret for her crimes.

>>149916302
Gandalf said it was good that Bilbo didn't kill Gollum when Frodo said he should have and he ended up being proven right.

>>149914908
>It isn't his fault the DC universe has shit governments
Then Bruce Wayne should be using his billions of dollars to lobby Congress to return the death penalty to Gotham City so joker can be executed. It's one thing to not kill a criminal with your bare hands, it's another to do nothing as the system keeps letting him get away with it.

>>149916329
Wow. Way to miss my fucking point.
Nobody cared when Thorin killed goblins or legolas killed easterlings.
Nobody cared when Jon Snow killed walkers or rogue members of the nights watch.
And nobody should care if Batman puts down a child rapist.

>>149916361
The character's popularity will ensure this can never happen, just like Batman can never truly win his war on crime or grow old because then there would be no more Batman stories.

>>149916384
Those are people fighting a war, you can't subdue your opponents non-lethally. Superheroes can and do.

>>149916389
>The character's popularity will ensure this can never happen,
They could at least do it in a what if or elseworlds story like Dark Knight Returns or Kingdom Come. Maybe have a press release say something like 'this is the official ending of the DC universe, all future stories written take place before this.
An ending where Superman defeats or reforms Luthor, where Joker and Zsasz get the death penalty for his crimes and their victims get justice.
I'm not saying it would fix everything but it would help

>>149916401
>>149916401
>Superheroes can and do.
They shouldn't. In my opinion it a bad moral to teach to kids that every situation regardless of how fucked up it is can be solved by trying to talk the bad guy down, or rehabilitate him. Some people can't be saved, and more importantly shouldn't be.

>>149878980
Kek. Batman is retarded. A fully grown man, possibly in his 40s, who still hasn't gotten over his parents' death when he was 8 years old. That was more than 30 years ago!

>>149916401
>Those are people fighting a war
And it's not a war when Zod shows up and makes it clear he wants to exterminate the human race?
It's not war when brainiac, or the reach shows up to try to take over earth by killing people with their exterminator rays?
It's not a war when Joker makes it clear he will not stop killing children, ever until either he's dead or Batman is dead.

>>149916430
There are a lot of noncanon stories where Joker dies.
>this is the official ending of the DC universe, all future stories written take place before this.
Not in a million years.
>>149916477
Kids don't get life lessons from funny books. They don't even read them anymore. Batman comics have been for fully grown people for decades now.
>>149916517
They aren't, no, they're fights capable of being resolved by a single superhuman who has the ability to do so without lethal force.

>>149916558
>capable of being resolved by a single superhuman who has the ability to do so without lethal force.
What kind of comic books have you been reading? Most of the time it takes the entire league to stop an alien invasion, and they would lose if every single member of the league had a no-kill rule. Or if the bad guys conveniently used actual soldiers to fight and not drones or parademons or robots to try to take over the world.

>>149916558
>Kids don't get life lessons from funny books.
The whole reason Superman and Batman don't kill is specifically because they started out as giving moral lessons to kids.

>>149916588
If it's a Superman or Batman book it's just them. Maybe sometimes the Superfamily or the bat-family helps out. It's not a war by any means, especially the legal sense. Batman and Superman don't have permission from the US government to go around killing people.

>>149916642
More "Look we don't want parents yelling at us" than teaching a lesson.
https://www.dc.com/blog/2022/03/02/why-batman-doesnt-kill
>It was at this point that editor Whitney Ellsworth put his foot down. Children were reading this magazine in the millions, and parents were finding reason for concern. With moral panic against the values depicted in comic books already on the rise in those nascent years, the pressure was on to soften their second-most popular hero’s image.

>Bob Kane, as he tells it, was furious. In his personal memoir, Kane wrote years later that he always regretted taking lethal force away from Batman, as it divorced his character from the brasher pulp heroes who inspired him. This laissez-faire attitude towards the death of his enemies and its roots in pulp fiction would find its way to the screen in Tim Burton’s Batman films, fifty years later.

>But Bill Finger had other regrets. Namely, that he had ever allowed Batman to kill in the first place. As the friends who knew him well later said, Bill was never comfortable with his hero’s lethality, and was relieved to move away from that in a different direction. As the author of Batman’s legendary origin, Finger made the ultimate statement on why Batman doesn’t kill at the very outset: because his parents were killed right in front of him. Batman would never kill because in the tragedy that crafted Batman himself, Bruce determined that the worst thing anyone could ever do is take a life.

>>149892213
jews invented capeshit though what does this even mean

>>149914119
It's how Injustice got started.

>>149916653
I wouldn't have a problem with Superman or Batman sparing a villains life if it was still like the silver age and the worst thing joker did was put laughing gas in the water supply, or Luthor stealing cake to ruin supermans birthday.
But after DC got more serious and 'realistic' with joker blows up an orphanage and beating robin to death with a crowbar. It just became impossible to excuse not killing the joker. Either at Batmans hands or the hands of the law.

>>149916498
Where do your parents live? I need to test something.

>>149875910 (OP)
Because bad writers keep trying to push the "if you kill one mass murdering psychopath like the joker or doomsday then you'll magically turn into super-hitler"

>>149916796
>>149916653
DC either needs to tone down the joker (and other similarly extreme villains like Zsasz, Bane, Zod etc) so it makes sense that Batman, Superman or other heroes don't kill them because they're just that evil. Or bite the bullet and kill them off. If not for good, then at least for a decent while so people can at least come to miss them.
As of right now though, characters like Joker and similarly edgy villains are overused, brutally nasty, and overexposed, and their mere existence breaks any internal logic for the DC universe.

>>149916792
>>149914119
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9JSA4Gxk7c

>>149916796
>>149916927
They'll change when people stop buying mass murdering-Joker comics. As it is, this is a popular take on the character, so they're not going to stop.

I liked that oneshot where the Joker takes a studio hostage and runs a deranged game show with unfairly difficult questions and the studio director enables him by preventing anyone from contacting the authorities because he wants to make a ratings stunt filming everyone's horrible deaths at the Joker's hands. Only for the Joker to pie the losers in the face and reveal he's bugged the director's office so the police heard his ramblings and found out he was stalling them on purpose. As they're carting him away the Joker has a good laugh at everyone's expense for getting suckered.

>>149875910 (OP)
Not if I piss and poop on you FIRST!

>>149916361
Bruce Wayne is more busy spending his dollars on orphanages and asylums and other institutions that benefit the town more than just killing the Joker. Again, not his fault that DC has governments be so fucking incompetent that he has to carry everyone's asses and do everything himself because the retards at the top can't think to kill Joker themselves

>>149914908
So the Golden Age stories, the literal foundation of the character and the reason it exists, are shit? Fancy way of saying you hate Batman.

>>149920414
Golden Age has some issues, Batman killing is one of them. But in general it IS better than a lot of nu-Batman shit (picrel)

Plenty of heroes aren't explicitly against killing, but it doesn't matter because the villains always survive anyway

>>149919202
>Bruce Wayne is more busy spending his dollars on orphanages and asylums and other institutions
The Joker's kill streak is tenfold that of everyone helped by these institutions because the way they write the Joker is stupid.
>that benefit the town more than just killing the Joker
They don't, not even close.

>>149916361
when joker WAS given the death penalty batman worked his ass off to get him acquitted because conveniently that was the ONE time he was framed for murders he DIDN'T commit (but everyone agrees the other 1000000000 murders were definitely him)

so Batman got Joker acquitted because god forbid the mass-murdering terrorist be executed on a technicality the way Al Capone was.

>>149921369
The truly guilty party had to pay.

>>149921369
Idk what comic this is from but this sounds like the most retarded shit ever. Not Batman saving him but the fucking government killing him for crimes he didn't commit and not ones he did

>>149900126
You say that but when Grant Morrison did exactly what you said everyone here shat on him.

>>149921780
It was a fun comic and he was on trial for those specific murders, they couldn't put him on trial for crimes he had already committed and declared criminally insane for.

>>149921780
Behold, Chuck Dickson's biggest turd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Joker:_Devil%27s_Advocate
>Joker's defense at trial is that putting joker venom on the backs of stamps so people die licking them is "amateur hour" and far below anything he'd actually do
this is extra funny given another 20+ years of antics because that is EXACTLY the sort of shit modern Joker or Punchline would do without a second's hesitation.

But yeah even at trial Joker admitted to being a mass murderer and the Einstein of crime but you don't get it Batman HAD to get him declared innocent and exonerated because of the 10000000 murders he's done he didn't do these!!! Nevermind that being a mass murderer is being a mass murderer either way, the answer to "does it really matter if you execute him for the crime he didn't do instead of the ones he 100% did?" is YES and Joker must walk free to kill another billion babies!

No kill rules feel like they are mostly industry shorthand of:
>We want to avoid moral panics ala Comics Code Authority.
>We don't want to kill off reusable characters.
Meta conversations on the philosophy of heroes no-kill rules 100% feel like:
>Pseudo intellectual person too dumb for high culture so has to endlessly dissect pop culture but is too dumb to apply actual industry/creative context or study.
>Ends up being an exercise in trying to feel intelligent more than something with actual substance.

>>149922309
>this is extra funny given another 20+ years of antics because that is EXACTLY the sort of shit modern Joker or Punchline would do without a second's hesitation.
Future writers getting lazier doesn't make the story bad.
>But yeah even at trial Joker admitted to being a mass murderer and the Einstein of crime but you don't get it Batman HAD to get him declared innocent and exonerated because of the 10000000 murders he's done he didn't do these!!!
Being declared legally insane doesn't work in reality the way it does in comic land but yeah. he was put on trial for those murders and declared insane. They can't execute him for those. That's double jeopardy. And it is right to find the actual culprit.

An actual comicbook fan knows about rolling continuity and how you don't take everything as canon because you simply can't take 85 years of comics and make it make sense. So each character has only been active for x years in actual continuity so their death count is no where near as high as people claim.

>>149875910 (OP)
Cause Batman doesn't shut up about it and lords it over other characters that the writers will drag through the mud to make him look better.

>>149876004
Pre-Crisis Batman didn't have a no-kill rule, he just wasn't killing people cause kids used to read his comics.
The no-kill as his primary trait didn't really kick in until Frank Miller.
Pre-Crisis Superman was the all life is sacred faggot of the two.

>>149922653
Double jeopardy doesn't work the way it does in comics either bro. Even if Joker is found not guilty by reason of insanity for the other 99999 murders he did in Gotham, he can be charged and sentences to death for those exact same crimes in FEDERAL court as well and Double Jeopardy means absolutely nothing because Dual Sovereignty means the State and Federal governments cannot preclude one another, it would be literally unconstitutional to prevent State charges being brought against somebody just because they had already been acquitted on Federal charges and vice versa.

So even if Joker didn't do the stamp shit, and was acquitted at the state level for 99999 other murders, his adverse admissions in court (lol I'm the Einstein of crime I killed all those people lmao) can be used to execute him in FEDERAL court where Arkham's revolving door is irrelevant. Of course absolutely nobody involved in comics has any idea how the fuck the legal system actually works so you don't see the feds just give Joker the firing squad after Gotham's incompetent state courts acquit him for the 1000th time. But yeah even the "muh double jeopardy" excuse isn't how double jeopardy actually works in America, that's why with high profile shit like Luigi you see the book get thrown at them to make an example where he's being charged in New York AND Pennsylvania AND separate Federal charges with the hope at least one will stick

>>149882259
Nolan wasn't even planning on doing a trilogy. It was the huge success of TDK that changed that.

>>149883730
>light shove in retaliation

Fuck you, you really got me there.

>>149923169
He has been federally charged before. They sent him to The Slab, not execution. His popularity dictates he'll never be executed. For good anyway, he actually did get the chair in the golden age but had a serum to bring himself back to life.

>>149894766
>A lot of people mistakenly think Superman has a "no kill rule"

That's cause pre-Crisis Superman was the hardliner on the no-kill bullshit.
He didn't even kill a plant villain, he took him to another planet.
Hell, Alan Moore's Whatever Happened to the Ma of Tomorrow is all about how he kills and then quits the whole thing cause all life is a sacred including a multidimensional serial killer imp's life

>>149923313
Yeah nobody in comics actually stays dead forever, but I'd rather he was actually killed off and only brought back by explicit resurrection or timeline resets (how many fucking times has Jean Grey died by now?) than for WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE to just throw his hands up in the air and not even bother letting him escape Arkham every other week.

>>149882175
>Batman doesn't claim moral superiority over heroes who do kill

He gives a whole sermon to Wonder Woman after she snapped Max Lord's neck

>>149923355
Already happened. After over 80 years of comics, pretty much every idea has been used at some point.

>>149923379
yeah, Superman is the one who's understanding that not everyone is a fucking Kryptonian who can take people non-lethally 99% of the time between invulnerability, near-flash speed, heat vision, cold breath, super strength, etc. I don't think Clark has ever given Diana shit for killing monsters or ares or whatever or Green Lanterns for blowing up a bunch of alien warships

>>149875910 (OP)
Batman’s no kill rule isn’t just about not killing. He actively stops other people from killing psychopaths like Joker for no discernible reason. Every single person Joker and people like him hurt or kill is blood on Bruce’s hands.

>>149914027
>he gets all pissy on his moral high horse for them acting as "Judge, Jury and Executioner" like when the JLA in the DCAU sent DOOMSDAY into the Phantom Zone

Bruce Timm just bending everything so his favorite character is in the right.
And Superman just stands there like a chump listening to this faggot give him a sermon instead of telling him that putting Doomsday in Arkham wouldn't work on the basis of those fucks don't even have locks on cell doors.

>>149922309
There's that moment in Hush when Harvey Dent has Joker released from Arkham cause he didn't kill Tommy Elliot. I guess only the last crime he was suspected of counts and everything before that is null and void.

Jeph Loeb also had Harley and Ivy released from Arkham on a bail.

Loeb might be retarded.

>>149923747
Dent's face getting fixed and magically becoming DA again with absolutely no one knowing was definitely a retard moment, yes.

>>149898770
Og batman

>>149879239
>bringing up Goku killing demons and not him butchering the RR Army

>>149923619
You've made the same post in this thread dozens of times. How ironic that you complain of repetition while guilty of it yourself.

People want to feel clever for injecting "mature" ideas into their funny books. But the writing on such matters is either ignored by people or just plain shit. That being said such morality in the mainstream of pop culture is equally dumb.

>>149923747
>released from Arkham on a bail.
lol what? they think insane asylums work like county lockup?

>>149920795
It's an historical part of the character though and its how the creators conceived him, so you end up disliking the truest version of the character amd that doesn't feel right.

>>149920795
It's an historical part of the character though and its how the creators conceived him, so you end up having issues with the truest version of Batman and that doesn't feel right at all.

>>149924401
Well Finger himself said he never should have killed to start with and he was the writer.

>>149875910 (OP)
Is that three shells coming out of a double barreled shotgun? Is that a thing?
t. no guns

>>149875910 (OP)
Don't forget that this happened.

>>149875910 (OP)
Because people don't? Are you flipping out over some navel gazing session you went into again? Why do you feel the need to inflict your stupidity on other people?

>>149926411
Which comic and issue?

>>149924467
Yet Batman stopped killing because of censorship by Whitney Ellsworth's editorial not as an organic choice by creators. Also Golden Age Bats is established to hate to take lives, but he will kill pragmatically, in self-defense, in defense of others, or when there is no other option available. He wasn't a serial killer or someone like Deadpool or Punisher.

>>149927411
World's Finest #128