Thread 149908809

The truth? Ken Penders single handedly turned Archie Sonic from a brain dead pun filled shittier AOSTH. Into a fantastic epic midevil scifi epic. You really should apologize and acknowledge Ken Penders as a fantastic writer. He's the only thing that made Archie Sonic worth reading. Just look at IDW.

>>149908809 (OP)
Shut up Ken

Not going to apologize to Penders but the more time passes the more I realize that Ian Flynn isn't much different than him. They're both Knuckles fanboys. They both don't care much for the japanese side of the series and prefer SATAM. They both try to pitch comics that aren't Sonic which flop. They both try to force OCs into the comic, I can actually sympathize with Penders more here since the game cast was actually small in his era Flynn has no excuse. Both misunderstand Sonic's character on a fundamental level. Both are annoying liberals.

>>149908809 (OP)
It's because of Penders' tantrum that Sonic comics has a mandate

>>149908809 (OP)
The reason Ken's writing was interesting is the same reason it's ultimately bad, really good at building up to future things that just never go anywhere. It's cool to read when you think something might actually happen but when you realize it's nothing it retroactively makes the whole thing shit

>>149909073
Thank goodness. Did you see the fucking awful garbage ian wrote in archie before sega put him down?

>>149909052
Yeah, Flynn basically became a parody of himself the way Penders did. They also both love long drawn-out arcs.
>Penders' bullshit never went anywhere, even when Knuckles turned into a God
>Ian's Archie Postboot was basically one long arc
>Zombot crap takes nineteen issues
>Surge and Kit need eleven issues and a mini just to job three times
>boring racing arc needs like a dozen issues

>>149908809 (OP)
>Ken Penders single handedly turned Archie Sonic from a brain dead pun filled shittier AOSTH. Into furfag drama slop.
Nah, shittier AOSTH was fine. Far better than the putrid shit that came after.
>>149909417
So J.J. Abrams, but worse.

>>149908809 (OP)
Ken Penders is responsible for all the worst aspects of the Sonic fandom.

>>149909442
IDW is way worse than Archie.

>>149909462
Penders invited trannies into the fanbase?

>>149909466
Idw hasn’t had anything as shit as Ian’s fiona ntr arc. Archie is way way worse than IDW and it’s not even debatable

>>149909587
Lol your self-insert is a cuck, cry more about it.

>>149908809 (OP)
Penders' ambition led to his ruin and he took Archie Sonic down with him.

>>149909587
because Archie was only given barebones in the beginning and their writers and artists weren't gamers

>>149909622
No thanks, i think i’ll just plainly state the facts that on every objective metric IDW makes stories like the games and will never reach the horrendous depths of faggy shit soapdrama in archie that only sonic self-inserters would like.
You can cry about it if you like though, since that’s all you can do against facts.

I still maintain that the best Sonic comic was Fleetway. It's crazy as hell, but in a good way. They remembered to focus on adventure rather than melodrama.

>>149908809 (OP)
why does kens art looks so damn uncomfortable?

>>149909700
He doesn’t know how to do lighting, and also never moved past that “how to draw anime” phase we all have.
His writing is better than Ian’s though OP is right. People hate him for meta reasons like decisions he made and the lawsuit

>>149909686
"Objective facts" like "faggy shit soapdrama" and "cuckshit cuckshit consoomer."

The Fiona arc is old enough to drive at this point. Get over it already.

>sonic self-inserters
There are no Sonic self-inserters, you're just projecting your Tails obsession on others. Nobody's mad that you aren't "treating Sonic with enough respect" the way you are with Tails, they just want you to go sperg elsewhere.

>>149909700
Penders has never been a really good artist, even before doing Sonic. But he came to Sonic from doing relatively realistic looking human figures, and has no concept of how different cartoony characters are drawn, so he kinda draws them like people...with a already shaky grasp on regular human anatomy. And then just draws a bad cartoon head on top of the body, like some shitty kigurumi. Top it off with poor posing, shitty proportions, and godawful soft airbrush shading that doesn't make a ton of sense, and you've got a recipe for truly shitty art that is almost painful to look at.

>>149908809 (OP)
Shut up Ken we know you just ripped off a bunch of 70s superhero comics for all your plots

>>149909747
You’re incredibly mad right now because someone insulted your pathetic sonic harem comic, loser.

These are objective facts: archie was soapdrama garbage and only self inserting permavirgins in their 40s like (you) cry when functional adults brand it the pigswill it factually is.

>>149908809 (OP)
only after Hurst and that lady fed them story ideas.
before then, it was just shittier AoStH and would have continued to be so.

>>149909812
Maybe Ian should’ve tried that instead

>>149909824
Objective fact: "Functional adults" don't spend everyday spamming threads because they're mad about a cartoon fox getting cucked in a comic nearly 20 years ago.

Like I said, get over it and go sperg elsewhere.

>>149908809 (OP)
>midevil

>>149908836
/thread

>>149909858
>wahhh i came into a thread about archie and there’s people criticising it wahhh
You go away if you can’t handle anything except a hugbox, blubber boy

We’re talking about archie here, and archie was factually pigshit that ian derailed to self insert as a boring faggy haremfic gary stu sonic, making it by all measures the single worst and cringiest piece of sonic media to ever exist.
The only people who cry if you criticise that shit (YOU) do so because they’re 40 year old virgins who want that gary stu self insert haremfic about Sonic and seethe at Tails for some godforsaken reason, probably because he gets in the way of your cringy furry self insert fantasy kek

>>149909052
>They're both Knuckles fanboys.
Penders was never a Knuckles fanboy and never actually cared about the character. Since Sega was much more protective of Sonic than Knuckles at the time, doing a Knuckles comic let Penders do a lot of the weird lore-building he really wanted to do but wasn't allowed to. With the Knuckles comic he was basically given free reign and Knuckles just became a side character in his own title. Literally everything in that comic would've happened in the main Sonic comic if they'd let him.

>>149910020
Eh, when Penders was writing the main issues he tended to make everything all about “Sonic & Knuckles, the eternal rivals of the gods!”
Like how he rewrote SA1 to completely remove Tails and Amy’s parts and wrote an original fanfic ending where Knuckles also saves the day from Perfect Chaos. That’s just one example, when Penders got to use Knuckles in the main story the entire thing became about only Sonic and Knuckles, everyone else got forgotten
Suggested to me he’s both a Sonic and Knuckles fanboy, so like Ian

>>149910020
on of the weirder things about ken is how consistently his stories turn into "my asshole dad treated me like shit but here's why I still idolize him"

all of his knuckles stories are basically about knuckles's dad and why his weird sociopathic actions were actually cool and good

>>149909052
Outing yourself as a disgusting Shadowfag with that knuckles comment lol. Still seething at him going toe to toe with edgy in reboot and such? Lmao.

I’d give Archie 0/10
And IDW 3/10, still not clearing the bar

>>149910065
>Like how he rewrote SA1
This one isn't even really Penders's fault, Sega would not play ball with Archie and wouldn't give them any details about the game but still insisted they make a tie-in. Spaz literally had to import a copy of the game just so they'd have some idea of what's going on and even then none of them spoke Japanese so any resemblance to the game's storyline came down to what they understood just through visuals and context cues.

Incidentally, Sega trying to pull the same shit with a Shadow the Hedgehog tie-in was apparently the reason Penders quit. Archie didn't bother trying that time and instead of a game adaptation they just did a storyline that featured Shadow but otherwise had nothing to do with the game.

>>149910020
He saw the mystery of Knuckles’s missing people as an interesting plotpoint and decided to answer it. Sonic is never referred to as the last of his kind, a story like that wouldn’t work for Sonic. He also related to Knuckles having no Dad because his parents were divorced.

>>149910152
This is also why the SA2 storyline was basically just setup and then "want to know more? play the game!" instead of an actual story about the game, I think Shadow was in one panel and then they didn't use him again for like a year and a half

>>149910152
No it totally was a choice on Penders’ part. I sympathise with Sega of Japan being aggressive idiots but Penders removed the levels of Tails and Amt and wrote in all new original scenes to make the ending about Knuckles saving the day too. Which imo was a good thing for the story, but clearly shows his favouritism towards the character

>>149910020
Yeah with Penders I think it's more accurate to say he considered Knuckles his pet character, if only because his OC Echidnas were the ones he really cared about. He didn't actually care about Knuckles as a character so much as what he represented, which was the side of the Archie canon that he had almost full control over.

>>149910014
>factually
>pigshit
>harem
>gary stu
>(YOU)
>40 year-old virgin
>self-insert
Aw man, if you'd said "consoomer" I'd have gotten the whole Tailscel Spergout Bingo.

>>149910184
>He also related to Knuckles having no Dad because his parents were divorced.
It goes a bit deeper than that. He had serious issues with his dad but reconciled with him right before he died, but he's still very hung up about it. It's not even just Locke, he did this with King Acorn a lot too, where he wrote a father figure who's clearly being a manipulative dick but also tries to justify it because they have good intentions. It was always really weird to see how Sally's dad behaved like a completely different character depending on whether Penders or Bollers was writing him. He has this weird obsession with constantly reliving that reconciliation with his father.

>>149910422
>He had serious issues with his dad but reconciled with him right before he died
The weird thing is that the issues he had with his dad didn't seem nearly as serious as I thought. He talks about it here: https://kenpenders.com/locke-me/

Basically the worst his dad did was expect him to move out at 18 and at one point whacked him on the knee for mistakes made during driving, as a way of encouraging Ken to do better. He even offered to let Ken stay home until he got on his feet after he left the air force. None of it seemed nearly as serious as what Locke did, but I guess Penders felt his father was very distant.

I know I shouldn't downplay someone's feelings about their relationship with their parents, but reading this I couldn't help but feel that Penders did his dad a disservice by comparing him to Locke.

my favorite part of the locke storyline is that his reunion with knuckles happened entirely by accident where knux just spotted him out on the street
>locke: shit he spotted me shit shit shit
>knux: DAD IT'S ME
>locke: shit fuck fuck shit go away why is he still following me
>knux: DAAAAAAD
>locke: fuck I can't get away uuuuuuuuuuh hi son I'm so glad to finally see you
>knux: DADDYYYYYYYY
>audience: awwwwww

Did Penders ever provided any explanation for why Locke and the Brotherhood had this weird tradition of faking their deaths and letting the current guardian believe he was all alone, all so they could just hang out in a bunker with all the other "dead" guardians and micromanage the current guardian's life in secret? Like if 5+ generations of guardians are still alive and all advising each other why not just let the current guardian in on it and openly act as his mentors?

>>149910218
Also forgetting that Penders turned Tikal's tribe into savage retards compared to his almighty enlightened Echidnas out of petty spite.

>>149910694
>Like if 5+ generations of guardians are still alive and all advising each other why not just let the current guardian in on it and openly act as his mentors?
That's a lot of work, and they were already in their pajamas.

>>149910694
Sorta. The explanation is in Issue #25 of the Knuckles comic..
>the current Guardian Aaron (great fantasy name, there) goes up against a Dark Legionnaire called Menniker who is hatching an evil plan to nuke the echidnas.
>Menniker manages to launch the nuke
>Aaron, knowing that the other Guardians can go on without him, climbs onto the side of the nuke and detonates it, killing himself and Menniker
>The Guardians decide to keep themselves a secret from the current Guardian, either because they felt Aaron was unprepared or didn't want future Guardians to be so cavalier with their own lives
It's pretty stupid.

>>149910741
And they've got Hot Pockets. Echidnas love their microwaves for some reason.

>>149910694
>>149910826
I think the problem was that Penders kept trying to set up mysteries to string along readers but never put enough thought into them and whenever it came time to reveal the answer he'd just make some shit up. I still remember he did this whole fucking deal about the mysterious Archimedes who is setting up death traps for Knuckles and kidnapping his friends and the big reveal was that it was a fucking fire ant just testing Knuckles and ends up just becoming a minor character in the rest of the Knuckles stories.

>>149908809 (OP)
the truth? all sonic media is cringe. if you like it you're either a mentally ill sexual deviant or a 5 year old who will likely grow up to be a mentally ill sexual deviant

>>149910969
The saddest thing about Archimedes was that, despite the flaws you mention, he was actually the one decent mentor character that Penders ever wrote. His ants helped defeat Enerjak in the first Enerjak arc, and he was a hell of a lot more honest with Knuckles than Locke was.

>>149908809 (OP)
When I was a kid and obsessed with Sonic, all I wanted was ONE (1) non-game piece of media that felt like the video games I loved. Instead I got
>Archie Comics: a boring drama-filled, overly-serious snooze fest full of shitty OCs nobody gave a fuck about and actively ignored the characters and stories from the games
>Sonic X: a shitty anime series with a dollar store budget full of shitty OCs nobody gave a fuck about and actively ignored the characters from the games while ruining the stories of the games
>a bunch of shitty old cartoons from the 90s
It was genuinely frustrating. Whenever I think of Archie and SatAM I only think of that Richard Kuta guy and everyone else like him who refused to let it go when Sega decided their crappy Saturday morning cartoon with like 10 episodes was no longer something they cared about. And these fans did it all because they wanted to fuck Sally Acorn.

>>149908809 (OP)
I don't know if Ken wrote it specifically but anybody have the panels of the Angel Island guys throwing a gorilla teen off the island to his death for the crime of bullying Knuckles? All this talk of the Knuckles lore reminded me of it and that shit was so funny I wanna read it again

You bought it, right?

>>149911175
I think the only thing funnier than this page is the fact that this is the story arc that the comic ends on

There's something really funny about one of the gang of Knuckles recolors being an infiltrator who only got in there because his dad was too stupid to tell the difference between Blind Knuckles 1 and Blind Knuckles 2

>>149911363
Hey, if Knuckles started wearing a different robes and hats, could YOU tell him apart from the other Guardians? I don't think so.

>>149911410
Bugs Bunny tier disguises but like an entire society made of various Bugs Bunnies in disguise

You think that cute girl bunny hitting on you is Bugs in drag again but NOPE it really is a cute bunny girl hitting on you and she's offended that you mistook her for Bugs in drag

>>149911363
I'm pretty sure a groucho marx glasses knuckles would be able to slip in, they'd just assume it's a guy they forgot. All you have to do is hang around and be spooky but o nothing, he'll fit right in.

>>149911209
Has this been storytimed yet? Is it completely nuts?

>>149911897
>Is it completely nuts?
It's uh...

>>149909052
Penders is still better than Flynn. no amount of nu-sonicfaggotry will convince me that Flynn is an upgrade

OH MY GOD! YES! YES! ANOTHER PENDERS THREAD FOR THE 42893143534TH! I AM SO HARD AND READY TO SPEED RIGHT NOW!!!!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! FEELING GOOOOD!!!

>>149911363
Penders sure does love his Knuckles clones.

I'm glad Archie Sonic is over. It was really suffering from character bloat. Way too many characters. Rotor and Tails were doing the same thing. Sally and Amy were doing the same thing.

Looks like there's some incest going on in the Knuckles family tree.

>>149911943
Why?

>>149912176
Because according to Penders nudity = maturity, and maturity = better storytelling

>>149911297
>>149911209
>cute cartoon animals murdering somebody in such a brutal and cowardly way
>the gorilla being super detailed and human-like compared to the simple sonic designs
>no dialog for any of this
It'll always be funny to me that a video game about a fast blue hedgehog fighting an egg-themed doctor produced so much strange stories trying to be dark fantasy epics like this.

>>149908836
fpbp

Everything bad about Sonic can be traced back to Penders.

The only time lefties side with multinational corporations over artists rights is ken penders. Impressively complete brainwashing.

>>149911138
>And these fans did it all because they wanted to fuck Sally Acorn
It has been decades and a lot of weird shit with this franchise can be tracked back to people that wanted to fuck a lame ass chipmunk with a vest.

The obsession with SA is puzzling to me.

I mean Archie had OC's that were actually cool animals like snakes, an Orca, other sea creatures, some more birds and a few other unorthodox picks so I can appreciate that at least with how IDW only goes for boring mammals and rodents with the only exceptions being Mimic and Jewel plus the gay birds.

>"Wow, Amy! This isn't like Little Planet anymore! To beat ol' Baldy Nosehair and his Egg Carrier this time, I'll have to Live and Learn so Eggman understands What I'm Made Of. Then when we defeat him, Tails and I can Escape from the City and go Supersonic Racing with Tangle and Sticks! Get your Tarot cards ready, Amy, my purely platonic friend!"

Yeah I don't know who the lesser of the two evils is in hindsight

>>149911138
You had the Anime OVA

>>149912867
>I mean Archie had OC's that were actually cool animals like snakes, an Orca, other sea creatures, some more birds and a few other unorthodox picks so I can appreciate that
Too bad they all looked like shit

>>149909444
Say what you will about the quality of flynn's writing, but the pacing has been a breath of fresh air. I fucking HATE the pacing in american comics. Shit is way to fucking fast, you can't get jack shit done worth giving a damn about. I'll take 12 issue monthly arcs. That shit is nothing after ready modern Jojo and other montly release mangas.

>>149909691
Fleetway was always fucking trash that went nowhere. Only retarded bongs like it. Sonic has never had a decent solid run outside of modern flynn OC wank which can at least set up and tell a story while it tries to fellate boring lesbian furries.

>>149909691
Brotherhood of Metallix alone mogs the shit out of ANYTHING Archie and IDW have done or ever will do.
Anyone that says no to "Metal Sonic Daleks" is simply a homosexual.

>>149912432
Penders was responsible for Sonic 06?

>>149909052
Flynn's initial stuff worked because if was clean up work by a fanboy who had a lot of time to think about the state of the comic before he joined and was able to act on it.
After that point he did present a compelling version of Sonic, but it was his Sonic, not the games Sonic and his inability to get over that fact has dragged down his work since it was brought in line.
In other words Flynn was a fixer that stuck around after their was nothing left to fix because nobody else wanted the job.

Not enough crying lesbians tbqh

>>149913511
I mean you are objectively wrong and being nebulously broad without actual elaboration or argument or specification so I can disregard your dubious point of view.

>>149913926
Nigga, half the Archie OCs looked like generic cartoon rejects from any dime-a-dozen furry animal cartoon. You really think shit like the "original" Freedom Fighters from that banal flashback two-parter, the Backup FF, or the gorilla from >>149911297 >>149911298 are at all designs worth salvaging? Let alone praising?

>>149913955
See now you are actually making an argument. My perspective is talking mainly about characters around when Tracy Yardley did the art or designs since I was more specifically referring to Mordred Hood, Ahklut, Razor, Abyss or even how he drew characters like Barby, The Sandblaster FF, The Destructix and Ken Khan who debuted before he worked at Archie. Admittedly as someone who read Archie Sonic mainly 160 onwards/Sonic Universe with it colouring what I think of Archie compared to the initial half. Honestly I don't envy the artists that had to make the more jarring and out of place designs actually somewhat reassemble the Sonic style, though even then the games had outlier character designs like Iblis, Erazor Djinn and the Deadly Six.

>I'll take 12 issue monthly arcs.
The length of the arcs is not the problem you fucking shill, it’s the fact that the majority of issues contribute nothing to the worldbuilding and are written like a comedic relief sprite comic.
Literally tails gets trolled has better, more engaging writing and contains more twists and turns than IDW, and anyone who’s read both comics will corroborate that fact. And it was was written for FREE! And costs no money! You’re such a shill for a rent-seeker like Flynn who writes directionless slop, and crammed dialogue that has no level of drama, suspense, emotion, or really much of anything.

>>149912989
The OVA was just AoStH with Japanese jokes.

>>149911138
>all I wanted was ONE (1) non-game piece of media that felt like the video games I loved.
what would that be?
a wordless picturebook of Sonic running towards the right and jumping on things?

>>149913955
nta but there hasn't been a new Sonic character that looked like it belonged in the past 17 years.

>>149913528
>Fleetway was always fucking trash that went nowhere. Only retarded bongs like it. Sonic has never had a decent solid run outside of modern flynn OC wank which can at least set up and tell a story while it tries to fellate boring lesbian furries.
No fucking way, Fleetway was a great mile-a-minute adventure series with tons of awesome shit like Knuckles blasting the Death Egg with a fucking lightning cannon. I'd rather read that than 20 issues of stupid fucking crying dykes.

>Shit is way to fucking fast, you can't get jack shit done worth giving a damn about.
Bullshit, the Flash comics in the 90s never had any arcs that went past 6 issues and it was great. Comics need to stop with the godawful 20-issue slogs. Nobody reads Sonic the Goddamn Hedgehog for 20 issues of melodrama.

>>149913571
my nigga

>>149915194
>Fleetway was a great mile-a-minute adventure series with tons of awesome shit
Until Robotnik is defeated and exiled, then it just spins its wheels with no clear direction until the final Sonic Adventure arc.

>>149915239
>Until Robotnik is defeated and exiled, then it just spins its wheels with no clear direction until the final Sonic Adventure arc.
It has its Dark Age admittedly, but I'd still take it over IDW or most of Archie.

>>149909453
>So J.J. Abrams, but worse
I'd have made a Steven Moffat comparison, myself.

>>149911943
Just make them humans nigga. Why even?

>>149908809 (OP)
He fucking sucks at drawing cartoons, doesnt know how to make things cute or appealing
Older comics he drew for featuring humans look fine but this nigga cant cartoon for his life

>>149915377
Because, deep down, he knows nobody gives two shits about his work outside the handful of people who genuinely worship his tenure at Archie.
He will never admit it, but he knows everything original of his will never grab the attention of the intended public or a company to make into a long-running comic or movie.
That's why he keeps going with the whole "I want to be my own boss" cope, while promoting his Sonic Archie work, which is the only thing he is (in)famously known for.

His "Knuckles" was never the real character, but a thing wearing Knuckles as a skinsuit. He could have easily made every one of "his" characters into original things, but he knows nobody would give two shits about it without the controversy of his plagiarizing the Sonic IP.

>>149913511
The original Archie Sonic writers and artists worked on Muppet Babies and Alf.

>>149909052
>>149909052
Not even the Japanese care about the Japanese side of the series. That's why the games are so stilted. They know it only really sells in America and they're trying to appeal to an American autistic audience and they don't really understand them. Not to mention Sonic Team is now basically an internship program after which you graduate to work on Yakuza.

Which Rotor is best Rotor?

>>149912112
All sweet Sals, but long-haired Sal is best Sal.

>>149912989
>Tarot cards
Goddamn it

>>149908809 (OP)
Archie Sonic was best before Penders became the main writer. Penders with Kanterovich was OK though. But solo Penders was unbearable.

>>149916033
Seriously, there's a reason why that got dropped from Amy's character for a long time: it didn't contribute to anything meaningful for her.

>>149916050
Penders was only the main writer for about a year or so between Bollers and Flynn.

>>149916091
*Wait, I think there was another short-lived writer after Bollers, but the point is that Ken wasn't head writer for very long.

>>149916091
Unless you count the solo Knuckles series, which might be the most unreadable comic book ever made.

>>149916053
I think it gets mentioned in one game in one line but trying to make it a core part of her character after getting rid of her character in the first place is shit move

>>149914603
Not that anon, but as a kid, you don't really understand how two mediums can't translate 100% from one to the other properly. Like, when I was a kid I tried making a Metroid comic but I wound up just drawing scenes from Zero Mission with dialogue. I couldn't grasp how story removed from gameplay would require adaptation in order to work.
People like the guy you're replying to likely has, and I mean this sincerely, autism, and mentally can't model the differences between mediums im his head, when his whole idea of Sonic is a type of monomania.

I sold off my entire Archie Sonic comics collection outside of the first 75 or so issues. In the end those were really the only issues that I still enjoy and go back to.

>>149916107
Yeah, but he was still primarily contained to Knuckles stories for most of his time at Archie. Once he became head writer, he REALLY went nuts in reshaping the whole book to his whims.

>>149916172
When I was young I was a huge Sonic fan so I continued to buy and collect the Archie Sonic book for years and years despite the fact that I could tell that my enjoyment of it was diminishing as the years went on. Only with the retrospect of a grown adult did I eventually realize that Penders was the reason why the book became really drab and boring. I'm not even someone who thinks Sonic shouldn't have drama or serious moments. I actually really enjoy the original animated series, which definitely had its fair share of serious moments. I just feel like Penders failed to humanize the characters in his writing in the same way the show did. His writing style is extremely sterile and mechanical. He is more interested in building lore than he is telling stories or fleshing out characters.

>>149914173
The buffoon you're talking to is pretty demented for confusing design with style and odds are he takes everything at face value like your average hedgehog or fox fan, but you don't need really a Tracy or Uekawa in your Sonic comic for making your mascot characters look decent. Just make sure everyone is consistent within your preferred artstyle.

Scott Shaws, Mawhinney, James Fry, J. Axer, Dawn Best, early Jon Gray etc, these knew enough professionally respecting a character own design while making them look as fit and consistent in their own nice pencils.

>>149915634
>His "Knuckles" was never the real character, but a thing wearing Knuckles as a skinsuit. He could have easily made every one of "his" characters into original things, but he knows nobody would give two shits about it without the controversy of his plagiarizing the Sonic IP.
Same could be said of Ian Flynn where Sonic is basically Steven Universe wearing a hedgehog costume.

>>149917298
*Steven Universe but he winks at the camera every five seconds

>>149908809 (OP)
He laid the ground work for stuff that other writers would vastly improve.

Did you know theres a new UK Sonic comic? Wonder if its any good.

Also, Sega won't let them reprint Fleetway because its "off brand".

Rotor the Walrus.

>>149920124
You can definitely tell the difference between the deranged Gen X Sonic fans like Chris Chan and Guptil who grew up with these mfs and well adjusted Millennials who grew up with Shadow (they made shit like Sonic Mania and Project 06)

Cool, didn't ask for your projecting "traumatic" old forums memories doe.

Anyway, Rotor Walrus.

>>149908809 (OP)
Sonic trying to be serious is laughable, and the newest game proved that

>>149910540
Honestly it is pretty believable that someone could just be like that with their parents if they're not emotionally intelligent enough. When we're younger we think it's a grave crime if our parents scolded us or made us feel bad
but depending on what it was exactly you should naturally grow up to think "Oh they were kind of right to do that actually, I was just a dumb kid" and then you move on, hopefully with a better understanding of your parents
With Ken he's pretty emotionally immature given his many interactions on the Internet and when at Archie and during the court case with them and Sega. He probably has a hard time just accepting that his dad was a well-meaning but stern father and never intended anything bad but his manchild brain warped it to be something grander to justify his reaction. People have had that mindset for less

t. have a brother that has behaved this exact way with our family for years

>>149920124
>>149920402
I love these so much. So cute.

>>149914603
I wanted Sonic X except the characters actually do things other than sit around Chris Thorndyke's mansion waiting for Sonic to get his lazy ass off the fucking roof.
Essentially I wanted the first 10 minutes of Sonic X before they came to earth. Or at the very least a cartoon that felt like Sonic Adventure or Sonic Heroes.
I don't think it would've been a tall order to make a show where Sonic and Tails had to thwart Eggman every week with some cool action and fun plots. AOSTH is actually the closest to this formula, it just has the unfortunate position of being a weekday cartoon made for $20 an episode in the early 1990s.

>>149916139
>I couldn't grasp how story removed from gameplay would require adaptation in order to work.
Would your ideal adaption of Metroid be that Samus befriends a human kid meant to be an audience self insert, and 70% of the plots revolve around him while Samus spends her time reading the newspaper all alone?
Do you just like...not understand that "adapting" something can be done in a bad way?

>AOSTH is actually the closest to this formula
There's that parroted opinion again...

>>149921030

He's not wrong.

>>149920960
Sonic X sucked. the pilot would have been a much better show than the one we got.

>>149916139
You know arguments that go
>translation that translates words directly and literally without any care for what expressions mean or grammar is bad, therefore what you want is translations that turn a sentence like "je mange une pomme" into "I fucking ate a fucking orange like, yeah baby?"
that's you right now

>>149921135
Lolcow.

>>149921135
we've been over this. he really is.
it's unhinged to criticize the freedom fighters but be totally fine with the wildly out-of-style OCs Adventures of throws in basically every episode.
i don't remember Sonic pulling literal Looney Tunes shit like painting tunnels on walls or wearing disguises in the games either.
most of the backgrounds are too abstract or generic to line up with any zone. zoomers saw a checkerboard pattern in one ep and said
>omg it's just like the games!!!!!

>>149921172

Yup, that sure is a post I made. Whats your point?

>>149921143
so basically you want a Sonic flipbook without dialogue that shows him running to the right and jumping on things.
that's you right now.

>>149921213

And yet the tone is far closer to the games than Blade Runner With Furries.

>>149921238
non, je mange une pomme

>>149921240
>the tone is far closer to the games
please tell me which game had Sonic dressing in drag to seduce Dr. Robotnik

also, please show me one episode of Adventures of that has a ring.
can you imagine if Mario never touched a mushroom in the cartoons?

>>149921213
>we've been over this.
this is something that should be impossible to say in 4chan and is evidence you should stop posting here and go do something else

>>149921271

un jour, vous comprendrez la différence entre traduire des mots en d'autres mots et traduire un gameplay vers un support totalement différent

>>149913528
flynn pacing is fucking dogshit what the fuck are you on
he takes directly after penders in that aspect, it's just slightly less worse but it's still awful as hell

>>149921287
the fact that you don't understand what a tripcode is or how that could facilitate an extended discussion here is evidence that you're new and should go back to r*ddit

>>149921308
Except that's not what's ever being asked, right? What's being asked is for the storytelling of the games to be adapted. You can adapt the tone, the relations between characters, etc, across mediums. It goes both ways even, it's why you can have games of non-game properties that still depict the non-game stories as they are or with minimal change. And it's what Archie, SatAM, etc failed at,

Hence the comparison. You should naturalize your translation a bit, yes. A Sonic comic might have to make some changes like Eggman not being the only villain or having more characters for Sonic to interact with. What you're saying is "therefore, it's ok that I'm freely changing what the fruit being mentioned is and adding a completely different tone".

>>149921413
>What's being asked is for the storytelling of the games to be adapted.
DiC started work on the show late 1991. here is the entirety of your story. turns out a paragraph in a manual isn't really enough to build a franchise on.
>characters
there were a grand total of two.
>failed at
not as hard as SEGA failed at giving Sonic a coherent backstory. they changed it three times in the first year.

>>149908809 (OP)
I'm so glad I never got deep into the Sonic fandom. All I ever did was watch some cartoons and fail at the games (the only one I ever finished was Sonic Advance). I'm not equipped for this level of autism about funny animal characters.

>>149921215
Not that retard, but, I love you Boco!

>>149921491
>DiC started work on the show late 1991. here is the entirety of your story. turns out a paragraph in a manual isn't really enough to build a franchise on.
If anything, I'd say it's a bigger indicator of them fucking up if all they had to match was a simple paragraph and they couldn't even do that. Sonic runs around and fights a goofy scientist who puts animals inside goofy cartoon robots and who drives his own machinery, popping the robots by jumping for animals to come out, and is helped by a tiny fox buddy with two tails he flies with, in colorful surreal 3d-inspired settings.
DiC gets the Robotnik wrong, gets the robots wrong, gets the way to fight them wrong, gets the visuals wrong, gets the tone wrong. Turns out even at a paragraph, they couldn't help themselves from shoving in a lot of stuff that's not just different but outright contradicts things? Somehow they were able to not do that for Mario.
>not as hard as SEGA failed at giving Sonic a coherent backstory. they changed it three times in the first year.
Oh, you're one of these kinds, huh. Well I'll say I agree with you actually- Sega of America fucked up and shouldn't have done their shitty backstory. Sonic's localization was needless, all the ingredients that made the franchise popular were there in the game in itself without the need of manuals making up shit, and it overall reeked of Americans sitting in corporate chairs wanting to justify their salaries and prove how smart they were, by going "Sonic's design sucks, he should look like a California Raisin", just like how they changed the Sonic CD soundtrack just to show they could, and tried the same with Sonic 2's.

>>149921600

Thank you random Anon.

>>149921632
>Somehow they were able to not do that for Mario.
Forgetting that every other episode of the SMB Super Show was some low-effort movie parody with constant puns on mushrooms and turtles.

>>149921632
>they couldn't even do that.
technically they did exactly that, since the story is literally just
>Eggman is causing trouble somewhere and turning animals into robots!
>the Robotnik
oh no, he's actually menacing!
not that it matters, since Ao Robotnik is much goofier.
>gets the tone wrong
remember when Tails died and his ghost image appeared in the night sky?
>they couldn't help themselves from shoving in a lot of stuff
turns out SEGA was predominantly an arcade company and arcade games don't focus on story so much. everything is only there to facilitate the insertion of quarters. SEGA didn't care why this hedgehog was fighting an egg and so didn't put much thought into it.
> Sega of America fucked up and shouldn't have done their shitty backstory.
so which of the three contradicting ones Sega of Japan shat out should they have gone with?
>changed the Sonic CD soundtrack just to show they could
nope. with grammar like "the Robotnik," i'm guessing you're not American; so let me give you a little history lesson.
house and techno may have been born in America, but it didn't catch on until years later.
we were still all about electric guitars and traditional bands in 1993. we were knee-deep in grunge, ffs. SoA didn't think the electronica of the JP soundtrack would fly. now, if you wanted to be mean about it, you could point to Sonic CD's sales and ask "would it even have mattered?"
it all worked out in the end, and we got two whole OSTs out of it, both good.

>>149921751
he's also forgetting the bizarre guests (Milli Vanilli) and forced singalong segments.
this is because he didn't actually forget, he's never even watched the shows he's trying to talk about.

>>149921800
To be fair, the most anybody remembers of the Mario cartoons is Captain Lou hosting the live-action bits.

>>149921914

Or the YTPs from World.

>>149920421
Frontiers is the best selling game since the Adventure games.

>>149920834
Yep, very. How do you like your Rotor, bro?

>>149921215
Low test bitch.

>>149923107
Like in those pics and his look before the reboot. It’s a nice design.

>>149921136
That's exactly what the fuck I was saying, big brain.

Remember when Japanese Sonic was a kid named Nicky who transformed/was replaced by Sonic in times of danger like Captain Marvel?

>>149908809 (OP)
penders definitely made knuckles THE no. 2 sonic character with all his reams of lore and heroics but rly that's about it

everything that has been done is ultimately polished and made better by someone else

remember when Japanese Sonic was the creation of an American jet fighter pilot that came to life after his death in a secret test flight to help save his daughter from a raging fire?

>>149921800
That was AOSMB3

Hypothetically what do you think would happen if sega and archie finally found the contract in whatever abandoned drawer its located in?

>>149925406

Nothing. They don't want older versions of Sonic anymore.

>>149925269
if we're being like that, then actually there was never a Super Mario Bros 1 cartoon.
the Super Show literally starts with SMB2/USA, which wasn't even a real Mario game.

>>149925406
>SEGA is protective of its property, so they go to court and regain custody of their characters from Penders
>SEGA are assholes, so they still don't do anything with the Archie characters anyway
>everyone loses

>>149914492
Holy fucking filtered

Sonic fans really DO deserve less

>>149917298
You are right, but we are talking Penders here.

>>149917298
>Same could be said of Ian Flynn
Yes, but to give Flynn some credit, at least he tries to write Sonic, even if it’s the version of the character he built up in his head over years as a fanboy, one that only he and his echo chamber actually like.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying he does a good job (I don’t think he does), but you could argue he’s coming from a sincere place. Penders, on the other hand, treated Knuckles like a blank canvas to project the protagonist of his original stories nobody wanted to greenlit.

>>149910184
>He saw the mystery of Knuckles’s missing people as an interesting plotpoint and decided to answer it.
This is technically false. Penders himself admitted to using Knuckles to recycle all the original stories he had pitched for Sonic but were rejected. Eventually, he realized Knuckles was less policed than Sonic, so he focused all his energy on the echidna to do whatever he wanted with him. Knuckles having a "last of his kind" trope attached was just part of the package deal.

>>149926833
Sega didn’t give a single fuck about the comic back then. It was revealed Sonic’s real name wasn’t even Sonic it was Ogilvie, if they let them get away with that they would let them get away with anything.

>>149927093
>Sega didn’t give a single fuck about the comic back then
Yes... and no. Testimonies from creatives at the time revealed that there actually was a clause requiring Archie to report to Sega about the comic, and Sega would provide feedback—more or less how it works with IDW now.
The problem is that, somewhere along the line, Archie realized Sega wasn’t really pressuring them to submit stories or art for review, and that nothing really happened if they published without Sega’s approval. So, they just started skipping that step and did whatever they wanted, with Sega (of America) never taking action because, as you said, they didn't give a single fuck.

>>149927093
>Sega didn’t give a single fuck about the comic back then
Yes... and no. Testimonies from creatives at the time revealed that there actually was a clause requiring Archie to report to Sega about the comic, and Sega would provide feedback, more or less how it works with IDW now.
The problem is that, somewhere along the line, Archie realized Sega wasn’t really pressuring them to submit stories or art for review, and that nothing really happened if they published without Sega’s approval. So, they just started skipping that step and did whatever they wanted, with Sega (of America) never taking action because, as you said, they didn't give a single fuck.

>>149909852
>picrel dialog
Alan Moore really fucking like the smell of his own farts innit?

>>149912352
>It'll always be funny to me that a video game about a fast blue hedgehog fighting an egg-themed doctor produced so much strange stories trying to be dark fantasy epics like this.
The Sonic fandom is fucking insane. SEGA tried to make the Sonic franchise marketable and relatable to children in order to compete with Nintendo and the Mario franchise but it's like SEGA made Sonic too appealing to children. Like, we're talking MK Ultra levels of marketable to children to the point that the Sonic franchise messed up some kids well into adulthood. Is this the power of corporate focus groups?

>>149921276
>can you imagine if Mario never touched a mushroom in the cartoons?
Careful there bro, Mario cartoon and movie adaptations have an extensive history of being just as horrendous as Sonic stuff is.

>>149926833
>Knuckles having a "last of his kind" trope attached was just part of the package deal.
The last Ugandan. Has a somber tone to it actually.