Thread 149918073

Didn’t even include the reboot style cause we all know it’s ass.

>>149918073 (OP)
Reboot.

>>149918073 (OP)
Obviously Spumco era looked the best. Games and Adult Party Cartoon have their moments but both are less appealing. Never really liked how Stimpy was drawn in APC and the colors can feel odd.

>>149918187
I know APC is just later Spumco, but I'm going by OP's titles.

The Spumco era style is the most appealing.

>>149918092
It’s funny cause despite how shit the reboot looks it still unironically looks better than most modern cartoons, that’s how low the bar is for cartoons these days

>>149918293
Bleak times

>>149918293
Why didn’t they just hire modern SpongeBob alumni to work on the reboot? Wacky cartoonists would kill to get a job anywhere else in the industry rather than be regulated to the SpongeBob mines.

>>149918461
the point is they didn't CARE about trying to make it faithful to the original, in fact evidence suggests that they wanted it to be anything but, purely out of spite

>>149918073 (OP)
Games didnt look bad, people just didn't like how much flatter the drawings got, but at least it still tried its best to preserve the cartoony, off model nature. I hope the reboot gave some Games detractors some newfound appreciation for it.

>>149918699
Addendum: Games didn't look bad aside from some key episodes from late season 4-season 5 that had their layouts and animation outsourced overseas (usually if 'Jim Kammerud', 'Kirk Field' or 'Arthur Filloy' is in the credits then its one of those episodes, notable examples like Travelogue, Schoolmates, Dog Tags, Hair of the Cat, or Dinner Party

>>149918461
>Why didn’t they just hire modern SpongeBob alumni to work on the reboot?
A lot of nu-SB (which is the best cartoon on right now) is Ren and Stimpy alum, perhaps more than classic Bob and post-Movie Bob even. Waller is producer, Bob Camp does something inportant, etc
The younger artists are good too but I assume a lot of them must be too straight white and male
I know there's some young chicks working on nu-SB, Artof Spongebob retweets this BG artist chick alot

>>149918699
The Games era wasn’t even that much of a downgrade writing-wise, the episodes were still pretty good, the downgrade is more comparable to the one from SpongeBob season 3 to season 4, it wasn’t anything too severe.

The episodes were also still an outlet for cartoonists to draw tons of fun drawings. Flat artstyles were just trending around the late 90’s to 2000’s, some drawings even give me vibes of the flat shows that R&S alumni would go on to work on like Mighty B

>>149918964
>R&S alumni would go on to work on like Mighty B
Bill Wray went on to be the main background artist for Mighty B. He even would employ the same paint blotch backgrounds. which is also another thing about cartoony cartoons i miss, they were quite an aesthetic. AOSTH was comprised of nothing but those kinds of backgrounds

APCs style is overhated IMO, I prefer the look of the original series but I feel there’s plenty of appeal in this one as well

>>149919250
It lacks the cuteness of the original series.

>>149919307
What "cuteness"?

>>149919449
John K always encouraged cartoon characters to look "cute and funny"

>>149919608
Pic unrelated i presume

>>149919449
>>149919608
the point is there was a decent amount of cutesy to balance the ugly out while APC just leaned in on the excessive wrinkles. I remember John bitching about Games crew drawing Ren like a human old man too many times (he created the name 'Jimminy Man' for that) when APC did the same thing

>>149919648
you're dumb

>>149918073 (OP)
Only incels think reboot is bad

>>149919677
>>149919688
Look, i'm not that well versed on Ren & Stimpy but aside from the hot girls and Anthony aren't all the characters kinda ugly?

>>149919719
Stfu l*dditfag

>>149919608
Of course John K would be quite fond of cute and funny stuff.

>>149919250
>>149919307
I swear I read something on Raymond Spum's blog talking about how APC wasn't as cute as the original series. Can't find it now
I think it had something to do with Vanessa Coffey?

>>149920162
Did she maybe tell APC to have that style so it doesn’t seem as appealing to kids?

Either way I feel like the style of APC is just the later Spumco style, Ripping Friends had a very similar style albeit not as expressive.

>>149919731
A drawing doesn't have to be Disneyesque to be cute
People misunderestimate what the appeal principle means, it's perhaps the best example of "I know it when I see it"
A character can be designed ugly and still be cute, or at the very least appealing. Picrel on the original post was cute. Danny Antonucci's characters are ugly, but appealing (It helps that occasionally a SBer would sneak in a cute expression)
I would personally contrast this with something like Shrek, ugly on purpose but also unappealing. Most Dreamworks movies until probably the last 10 years had that problem, even when they weren't trying to be ugly

>>149920400
Unfortunately artists these days think that just making a cartoon ugly without incorporating the appealing aspect makes for a good style.

>>149920400
Shrek is appealing

>>149920928
Even when compared to the other two major CGI movies from 2001 it's unappealing
I don't know how it won over Jimmy or Monsters, other than the Oscars are run by invalids

>>149921171
Shrek blew up in popularity around that time for how different it was from other animated films back then, Shrek was the starting point for tons of animated movie cliches like the dance party ending, reliance on starpower, parodying of tropes, large amount of gross out humor like fart jokes, annoying comic relief, all that stuff is the standard now but it was seen as incredibly unique back when Shrek first did it.

It was the writing over the animation that gave Shrek the win.

>>149921171
I remember people predicting Final Fantasy or Waking Life at the Oscars, then being in shock when Jimmy Neutron got nominated instead.

>>149921171
>I don't know how it won over Jimmy or Monsters,
Because its writing and characters were peak. If anything this is an even bigger advantage when you're trying to appeal to Oscar boomers who can't appreciate good animation.

>>149920928
Not according to John, he hated pretty much any kind of 3D in fact, even in his review for Cloudy he compliments the fact that it used more stylized 3D while still acting like he hated it
https://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/2009/09/review-of-meatballs.html?m=1

Despite this he encouraged people to see Free Birds cause he did early development on that film, stating that "the animation is more Looney Tunes than Pixar so it should be fun", despite the fact that his designs were extremely toned down in the final product compared to his concept models, sounded here like he was coping hard here
https://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/2013/10/free-birds-aka-time-turkeys.html?m=1

>>149920878
I’ve seen retards say that Fixed is on the exact same level of ugly as Big Mouth btw

>>149920878
These designs just make me sad.
Like a sad frog.
:(

>>149921171
what the fuck are you smoking to think that the Jimmy Neutron movie looked even a fraction as good as Shrek

>>149918764
IIRC in a DVD commentary John called this face in particular a "Calarts Stimpy"

He wasn’t a fan of some the drawings made during the Games era.

>>149923877
my point was regardless of the drawings being more flat, at least it preserved the wacky cartoon spirit and kept being off model and having deranged expressions, regardless of John's tism about them not looking a certain way or whatever. This is something the reboot is abhorrent at

>>149921483
FUCK! you're old.

>>149918073 (OP)
Spumco & APC are pretty much the same so they're the best.

>>149918964
The Games Animation episodes looked worst & had more animation errors than the Spumco episodes. Someone upload a Spumco vs. Games Animation comparison of Space Madness.

I love how tons of modern Ren & Stimpy promotional material uses their APC designs

>>149923513
I would rather die standing than live on my knees.
What Neutron lacks in fancy bazillion dollar effects it makes up for in cartoony designs. Unlike Shrek or even Monsters to an extent, it isn't ashamed to be a cartoon
When these movies came out, the knownothings in the media orgasmed over how "it looks so real, you won't believe it's a cartoon!", as if being animated was a drawback. It was cutting edge for the time, but 24 years later it only looks a couple steps above Lawnmower Man
Jimmy didn't have the budget Shrek had, and the styles of the DNA crew (Paul Claerhout, Keith Alcorn) were already more on the cartoony side, so they decided to go in a different, and in my opinion more appealing direction
Cartoon fans have always had sort of an inferiority complex or "Rodney Dangerfield Syndrome" where they always feel "the man is holding a brotha down, nobody respects us", most of the time it's a bit exhausting, but it didn't come from nowhere

>>149924811
One of the benefits 2D animation has over 3D is that it never ages poorly, Toy Story was groundbreaking for the time but nowadays the humans look more plastic than the toys.

The trick to making CGI films not age as badly is to stylize them rather than have them be as realistic as possible.

Member when Disney made a film that was basically just one big tech demo to show how realistic of dinosaurs they can animate, but it was made in 2001 so it looks like complete ugly shit by today’s standards?

>>149923877
>IIRC in a DVD commentary John called this face in particular a "Calarts Stimpy"
Didn't he spend the entire Games Era commentary just shitting all over everything? I never saw it but I heard people say that.

>>149918073 (OP)
reccardi and destefano's styles work better with line weight, the variation in line thickness adds depths to the flat drawings

>>149925475
yes. he said pic related was just 'gross for the sake of gross' when a. it was to show how exhausted Stimpy was and b. he's being a disingenuous hack is he's acting like he wouldn't have done it like that if he had gotten to produce the episode.

>>149924607
>Spumco vs. Games Animation comparison of Space Madness
there is no Games Animation version of Space Madness retard. Closest thing to it is The Scotsman in Space. That episode was wonky but still had some funny faces.
>>149924726
Doesn't help that a lot of them including that same one got used for the DVD boxart.

>>149926046
>acting like he wouldn't have done it like that if he had gotten to produce the episode.
Considering the shit in APC I'd like to ditto that.

>>149919449
https://www.fullecirclemagazine.com/2012/04/twenty-years-of-ren-stimpy-conversation.html
>John Kricfalusi: The show I pitched was called Your Gang and it pretended to be mostly about a bunch of stock kids. One of the kids, Donny Chickenchild, and his dad, George Liquor, owned a crazy Chihuahua and retarded cat. In my mind, George, Ren and Stimpy were the main characters, but I thought they would be too weird for a network to buy if I presented them up front in the pitch - so I kind of hid them among these other kids. Luckily, when I pitched the show to Vanessa Coffey, the Nick exec, she loved Ren and Stimpy and asked me to focus the show around them. It was their very weirdness that attracted her.

>Vanessa was my greatest ally during the first season of the show. She and I got along great. I would trade her cute stuff for gross stuff and it made a nice balance.
https://johnkstuff.blogspot.com/2007/01/functional-drawings1-draw-with-purpose.html
>Stimpy is cute, stupid and sincere and has to press a button with clear silhouettes.

A degree of cuteness mixed with the gross stuff was a critical ingredient of what made the original show great. Not that APC looks bad, it just isn't as appealing in my opinion.

>>149926178
Image he's referencing in second quote

Also yeah, Season 3 R&S looked good still, seasons 4 and 5 looked noticeably worse in places but not completely bad or anything. Games era isn't as good in general as Spumco era but it was still a great show overall.

>>149926105
>>149924726
I don't think Viacom has made a new style guide since APC
Some modern Nicktoons guides explicitly say "do not use Ren and Stimpy, they are not considered Nicktoons anymore"
https://archive.org/details/rs-ren-stimpy-styleguide

>>149926563
>Some modern Nicktoons guides explicitly say "do not use Ren and Stimpy, they are not considered Nicktoons anymore"
i feel like that might've been the case in the 2010's
they had representation in Nicktoon's MLB from back in like 2011 and that was the last time they were seen part of the branding before fucking off for years on end. I feel like things must've changed if they decided to include them in Nick Brawl