Thread 149924240

ITT thread let us discuss what makes a good rogues gallery. Which superhero do you think have the most interesting lineup? Who do you think is underrated?

>Two badguys work together
>Their thought bubbles are about how they will betray the other one
Why are they like this?

>>149924509
It would reason anyone willing to do harm to someone good would have few qualms doing the same or worse to anyone worse.

>>149924240 (OP)
>Who do you think is underrated?
shazam

>>149924240 (OP)
Thoughts on the rogues gallery of the Powerpuff Girls? I think they are neat and some meet these roles >>149924420.

>>149924890
One-offs aren't really rogues, are they?

>>149924240 (OP)
>>149924420
Superheroes should be ignored unless they're in good stories.
Rogues galleries are really valuable in terms of marketability, not quality.

>>149924509
They're the badguy

>>149925354
If not then the PPG still have reoccurring antagonists like Mojo Jojo and Him.

>>149925397
Cringeworthy panel from a cringeworthy run. I'm surprised /co/ likes this reddit-tier shit.

>>149927616
come back when you have something new

>>149927680
Go back.

>>149924240 (OP)
>Who do you think is underrated
Wonder Woman and it's not a question

>>149924240 (OP)

There is literally only one superhero ever made who has a rogues' gallery worth talking about and it's Batman, who originated the term. None of the other have that. Superman doesn't have it, Spiderman doesn't have it, Flash, X-men, whatever the other faggots you can think of, none of them have it. Only Batman.

>>149924420
This was just made for baneposting

What can be done to give the Titans a good rogue gallery?

>Slade is way too played out
>Trigon is way too played out (and by extension evil Raven) and is pretty much the same story every time
>Brother Blood got connected to Trigon (who is way too played out) by Johns
>HIVE has been a thing for 40+ years and nobody has tried to flesh out what that organization actually is
>Wildebeest Society wasted like two years real time
>Lobdell's abortion called Harvest
>nobody remembers 60s-70s villains, the rest of the NTT villains, and 99% of the villains introduced from 1996-2022 for a good reason

>Antithesis & Gargoyle, Fearsome Five, and various Titans of Myth have potential but they're too underdeveloped
>Blackfire occasionally will something decent going on, disappear for a few years, and then come back with something completely different going on

>>149928921
/thread

>>149929196
2023 Titans was maddening because there was a chance for THREE new powerful villains but Taylor/DC fucked up every single one of them by connecting them to older shit.

Brother Eternity should’ve just been the leader of a space cult instead of taking over Church of Blood, and he shouldn’t have taken Blackfire’s part in Starfire’s origin.

Necrostar shouldn’t have been connected to Starro because having the JL’s sloppy seconds is the last thing the Titans need. Make a new shape/kind of alien if you have to avoid further comparisons.

Dr Hate deadass just should’ve been a new character or a character nobody has used in ages instead of making them evil Raven.

>>149924240 (OP)
JSA has a REALLY underrated rogue gallery desu.

>Ultra-Humanite
>Per Degaton
>Johnny Sorrow
>Vandal Savage (he was originally Alan's anyway and fits them more than most other heroes DC makes him fight)
>Injustice Society (Grundy, Icicle, Tigress, Shiv, etc)
>Roulette
>Mordru

And then there's villains with potential for a good story due to not a lot of attention being put on them if they would just bring them back like Kulak, Ian Karkull, Marcie Cooper Harlequin, Blackbriar Thorn, or the Fourth Reich.
They also have a lot of oneshot/twoshot villains from ages ago that could be reimagined like the Four Kings and Lorelei.

>>149924420
>Thragg
>Cunning

>>149925354
That still leaves Mojo, the Rowdyruff Boys, Him, Morbucks, Sedusa, The Amoeba Boys, the Gangreen Gang and Fuzzy Lumpkins, their rogue's gallery is pretty big all things considered.

>>149928921
>Spider-Man
This retard seriously thinks he's going to convince anyone that Spider-Man doesn't have noteworthy villains.

>>149928910
I dunno anon, her arch enemy is a cat. That's just ridiculous that the most famous heroine is stuck with a cat. Especially when compared to DC's most famous hero, who's arch enemy is a clown, which we all know is the most badass career ever.

>>149928910
Does anyone give a fuck about any of Wondy’s rouges that aren’t Cheetah?

>>149929483
Except nobody cares about Cheetah either which is why DC is obsessed with her jobbing to Catwoman.

A good rogues gallery needs both variety in type and scale. You need a good mix for stories of different stakes and themes.

Not every hero needs a Condiment King or a Doomsday, but a good spread within the range between them is a good idea.

>>149924240 (OP)
The Avengers have a pretty great rogues gallery by virtue of it consisting of individual members such as Captain America or Thor having especially top notch bad guys like Baron Zemo or Absorbing Man who's career highlights have been in Avengers stories usually as members of the Masters of Evil and some exclusives of note like Ultron and Kang who are personally fave villains of mine in the Marvel setting. Though I'm biased since EMH was my exposure to a lot of them initially before I read comics or who I didn't know of from Video games and Spider-man media appearances.

>>149929483
I like Ares, Circe, Dr Psycho, Dr Cyber, and Veronica Cale

>>149929266
Dr Hate should've been Danny Chase.

>>149924240 (OP)
This chick just lost her entire rogues gallery.

>>149930425
Doesn’t look like much of one

Always have someone with the same powerset than the hero but stronger and more versatile. So the hero will have to use ingenuity to defeat them.

>>149930425
STOLEN ROGUES aren't rogues gallery.

>>149929266
I think Taylor was unironically building up to an Evil Titans until he got told that the JL was coming back and he decided to drop out of the book. He had introduced an evil Raven, an evil Beast Boy, an evil Starfire and an armor for Donna Troy that could have easily been stolen. He just needed an evil Nightwing and bring back Grid or something.

>>149929196
Just use the cartoon originals and develop them.

>>149930418
The Ninth Circle was such a perfect villain for GA.

>>149924240 (OP)
Simple: they are reflection of the protagonist not just in the suit but outside of it as well- take the fairly odd parents for example: a crazy teacher, a mean babysitter, a bully, a comic book villain, beauracratic pixies who hate fun, a rich kid, a dentist, a sleazy genie- these are not only great oppositions to Timmy who is a naive ten year old kid but to his fairies as well, what makes them both threatening and compelling is that they aren’t only able to defeat Timmy but Cosmo and Wanda as proxies as well due to the inherent set up of the universe (Cosmo and Wanda cannot be discovered or else they’re sent back to Fairy World, Cosmo and Wanda can grant any of Timmy’s wishes as long as they are within the rules, and this world has magical beings living inside of it)

The writers use all of this to its maximum capacity and come up with fun reoccurring antagonists, and this isn’t even mentioning the villains who can also be allies such as Jorgen, Catman, Mark Chang, Tootie, etc all great foils and juxtaposition to the three protagonists and their personalities.

>>149924240 (OP)
>Which superhero do you think have the most interesting lineup?
Batman
>Who do you think is underrated?
Wonder Woman. She's a strange case because while she doesn't have any massive standouts her rogues gallery isn't filled with shitters when you look at it

>>149924240 (OP)
Why is Steve Harvey on Superman's side?

>>149924240 (OP)
When you add all the different villains from the various Ninja Turtles incarnations, they’re very impressive.

>>149933999
That’s Gus Gorman from Superman IIi. Played by Richard Pryor, you fucking zoomer.

>>149924240 (OP)
>what makes a good rogues gallery
beyond the obvious (variety in tone/design from each other) i think it's important for them to oppose some minor element of their enemies' personality/values, even in just a small way
i should note it doesn't have to be "intentional" by any means, just for the potential to be there - looking at some of batman's most iconic villains, for instance,
>mr. freeze - refusing to accept the loss of family
>two-face - corrupted by vengeance over trauma
>riddler - alienation from others due to intelligence
obviously none of these were probably intentional when they were originally thought up but that element behind them is probably what makes writers want to keep them around as opposed to like. zodiac master

>>149934010
Zebra Man just needs a good writer. Same with Planet Master.

>>149924240 (OP)
We all know Batman has the best rogue's gallery by far but can we talk about how Iron Man has the worst one by far. It's not even a case of having a rogue's gallery no one cares about, literally who does he have that anyone actually remember exists? Mandarin? Stane maybe? That's fucking it. Even after the MCU boost Tony's got fuck all going on solo

>>149934009
>How dare you not recognize this character, who only appeared once, in a movie that flopped. I’m superior for knowing who they are.

>>149924240 (OP)
>Who do you think is underrated
Iron Man, armored adventures proved they're not boring

>>149928921
Batwanker cope

>>149924420
Why the fuck isn't robot listed for "cunning genius"

>>149929406
Probably because Spider-Man villain comics and movies are total shit, while Batman's villains are cultural phenomena.

>>149924240 (OP)
Once you get into it, Judge Dredd’s rivals anyone’s.

>>149934100
don't forget modok! (honestly i don't get the appeal of him inexplicably having been in so much stuff over the last like 15 years like i get that he's kinda funny but the amount of shit he's appeared in just feels kinda bizarre to me)
it really doesn't help that so many of stark's most iconic villains are straight up just "iron man clone" though. like, off the top of my head there's about a million versions of titanium man and crimson dynamo and then also stuff like iron monger (you mentioned him) and cobalt man, not to mention the sheer number of characters that vaguely sort of get retconned into having also stolen starktech like melter, whiplash, unicorn, ghost, etc.
it's weird, i think the angle of most of stark's villains coming about from his own creation would be something that'd be interesting in theory (and kind of fits his character) but in its current state it kinda sucks because it just feels like everyone has exactly the same deal
sucks though, i think there's some cool concepts amongst the lineup. not quite sure why fin fang foom is there

Not that anon but the only iconic rogues galley is Batman's.

Outside of that, you get into characters that only comic geeks recognize and few guys that everyone knows like Lex Luther or Green Goblin.

It's not even a matter of quality or writing. Batman's guys are just ingrained into the public consciousness thanks to shit like the old Batman show and 80's movies back before comic stuff saturated everything

>>149924240 (OP)
>>149924420
I feel like Penguin and Riddler feel more like arch-enemies to Batman than Ra's and Bane. They're more reoccurring, more iconic, and feel like the runner-ups to the Joker. Then Catwoman and Two-Face.

>>149930425
She’s going to to start over with new rogues now.

>>149930418
The artist put the wrong Komodo (tusks guy) and the wrong Slingshot (black girl with side cut) on this.

>>149934246
>Iron Man, armored adventures
That obscure, low budget French cartoon didn't need to go that fucking hard with the redesigns. It should be the gold standard for revamping crappy old supervillains.

>>149933209
No shit sherlock she was originally from a different universe, its just her rogues were cool takes on already existing Spidey villains, Matt Murdock as the Kingpin in her universe being one of them

>>149934339
Cobalt Man is a fake Iron Man enemy. Like he's a disgruntled Stark Industries employee using an armored suit, but he ends up fighting guys like the X-Men, Hulk, and the Defenders. It is to the point their closest interaction is Iron Man impersonating Cobalt Man to get intel on the Thunderbolts. But there is a horrible tendency for writers to go "screw it, new version so I don't need to think about how this character actually fits in", especially in groups.
Fin Fang Foom is a member of the Makulans, which Mandarin's rings came from. Byrne's Iron Man is the story they become connected.

>>149935228
It's a big missed opportunity that they never got Adi Granov, the artist responsible for the modern Iron Man armor prototype to take a whack at more of his villains. He only did Iron Monger and, for some reason Fin Fang Foom as this sick alien dragon thing.

>>149934240
Yes.

>>149936505
I wish he drew people better.

>>149933841
Arrow had two OC villains that I thought would fit perfectly in GA comics: the Dodger, who coerces people to commit crimes for him, and the Mayor, who was just a normal, put-upon dude who found a crate of weapons and decided he's fucking running shit now.

>>149934010
I argue against this all the time because it really doesn't work in practice. It's a very limited way to look at characters and always results in pigeonholing and stagnation, and usually is a massive fucking stretch if not intentional from the outset.

>>149924240 (OP)
What is that behind Lex Luthor? Starro?

>>149924240 (OP)
Someone remind me of a supervillains name. He was introduced in Superman or Action Comics between the years of 2006-2009. He was middle eastern, and had a wide range of powers like Marvel's Apocalypse, and he had a secret society that's similar to the League of Assassins but it was more hi-tec. He was introduced as a new major threat but just kind of faded away afterwards. What was his name?

>>149933841
Isn't Court of Owls, with their elitism, money, and Illuminati ways the perfect foil for a modern Robin Hood? I'm not trying to hate on GA's enemies but the burn victim committee wasn't interesting to me.

>>149939051
idk

>>149939051
>>149940159
Solaris the Sun Tyrant

Really kind of sucks how so many villains have just never had a good story. But then a villain like Mr Freeze gets Hearts of Ice and it is great and all but then kind of traps that villain in that story.

>>149929196
Ding Dong Daddy is due for a revamp.

>>149934240
This, but unironically.

>>149936321
Cobalt Man looked like he was meant to be an Iron Man villain Roy Thomas created, but he fought the X-Men instead because that's the book Roy was writing. Or maybe it was just intentionally a shared universe thing where the villain really wanted to be fighting Iron Man but got the X-Men instead.

Two Iron Man runs ago it looked like we were finally going to get Iron Man vs Cobalt Man, but it was just Riri cosplaying as Cobalt Man to trick a villain.

>>149939155
Khyber. Kurt Busiek got jostled around a lot and didn't finish most of his plots at DC.

>>149939155
Is that the blue guy from from Busiek's Superman run where there was an extended flash-forward to a post-apocalyptic future caused by the damage done to the world by this guy throwing down with Superman? I can't remember the guy's name, but the plot about averting that future just got dropped when the New Krypton era started.

>>149940429
Considering under Roy Thomas you had a lot of X-Men stories where they weren't dealing with "mutant problems", it definitely was the later.

>>149940280
They should only ever have one story. This recurring nonsense is corporate meddling.

>>149933955
You forgot to add Megan Bacon

>>149939265
Ninth Circle was a criminal organization like CoO. It was just an evil bank rather than some vague collection of rich people who vaguely run the city somehow.

>>149929196
I still can’t believe DC hasn’t used Gargoyle/Antithesis since 2000 and 2008. They should’ve been the main villain of Dark Crisis instead of Pariah and GEB. You can even keep the other legacy characters by just having Gargoyle hate all legacy characters cause of Dick and the fab five.

>>149929369
>Injustice Society
Lemire’s version sucks so bad. I know he admitted he can’t write teams and his JSA is just two teams battling it out to see who sucks more, but geez the roster is just so bad it’s hard to care about them. It sucks because I like the JSA roster.

>Ian Karkull
Eh, he’s such a blank slate a good writer could do a lot with him but I feel like most writers would just try to redo the Darkness Falls storyline, with or without evil Obsidian. He’d probably do best as a “haunting the narrative” kind of villain, but that would require writers to give a fuck about Obsidian and actually tell a story from HIS prospective instead of just having something happen to him and then ignoring him once it’s over. Still believe somebody should make the slight gay subtext between the two plain text though, that would be hot and Alan would suffer more.

>Fourth Reich
Helllll no. Writers would just use them to soapbox hard and the story would suffer.

>>149927616
You literally say anything for attentionl, faggot

>>149940356
kek

>>149929627
I'm not as sure about Absorbing Man, Creel is cool and all, but he kinda falls into 'filler for a team' category

>>149944638
Suppose actually Absorbing Man has been at his best recently in Black Bolt and Immortal Hulk. Can't really the last major Avengers appearance he has besides Under Siege so got a point....he's a great villain still since on the topic.

>>149929266
>Make a new shape

>Necrocube
>Necrosphere
>Necropentacontagon

>>149933773
Taylor probably would've just used Heartless for Dick, let's be real.

>>149939265
CoO sucks because once you get past the white masks and main Talon's design being cool and him being able to fight Batman, the organization sucks and every attempt to make them cool again sucks.

Percy at least understood an organization needs identifiable members, CoO doesn't have that beyond Dick's grandpa.

>>149945524
Oh and Bruce's "brother", a character who got ruined due to trying to make him Bruce's brother or at least have him believing that be his whole character.

So Snyder was 0/2 in giving CoO important members.

>>149939265
Isn't that why they're more of a Robin/Nigthtwing villain? They did the more direct Robin Hood comparison in Nightwing Rebirth with the Court and Raptor's class-conscious heroic villainy. Complicated by the Court's obsession with weaponizing Dick in Robin War and the Ric saga.

>>149946019
You're overthinking it
Snyder was just ripping off Morrison's run but new 52 caused CoO to go to Bruce instead of Dick, but editorial was gracious enough to give them back to Dick

>>149944638
Absorbing Man started out as a Thor villain, his first fight with the Avengers was a lineup without Thor, and he gave the team a hard time, though most of the later times he was an Avengers villain was as part of a villain team.

In the Earth X AU, Creel absorbs Ultron's intellect and ends up being the guy who killed most of the classic Avengers.

>>149930418
>>149930425
If this artist did Green Arrow and fucking Spider-Gwen have they done a Nightwing one?

>>149946707
nta; i haven't been able to find one for nightwing specifically but they did do one for the titans? plus a couple of others actually
on a tangentially related note i've always thought the doom patrol's rogues gallery is kinda cool, it's neat how a lot of their villains kind of mirror their own weirdness in some ways. though admittedly i've always thought the brotherhood of dada would have been a little better if its members were introduced a little earlier

>>149945524
>entire point is they're a faceless organization whose individual members are replaceable
>dEY NEEDS TO HAVE ONE GUY WHO RUNS EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE KNOWS WHO HE IS!

>>149947151
That sucks. His rogue gallery isn't good but it's at least on par with Ollie's and better than Spider-Gwen

>>149929369
I fucking love Johnny Sorrow

Fuck JLvSS and Harley

>>149940280
It's hard to top that and people complain when something new is done. Look at how many people complained over Penguin in the Arkham games.

>>149940235
Thanks