Thread 149930326

>remember when Doom was an Operatic and grandiose Balkan Dictator?
>fuck you, he's now drawn as a rail-thin faggot in a hoodie who cares about "everyone being fed and happy" and sacrifices his own people to sustain a world without borders and keep the globohomo American culture going
>remember when Magneto was a literal race supremacist and some twisted pariah of a never ending war?
>fuck you, he's now a cripple in a chair who accepts even the mutant equivalent of trannies but still hates humies and mutates so that they can keep the "heckin allegory" going
>remember when Norman was legitimately nuts?
>fuck you, he's now a good ol' boy who was possessed
>remember when Loki was a legitimate god of chaos and mischief who could be vindictive and scary and everything?
>fuck you, he's now sometimes a Tumblr sexyman, sometimes a tranny and just runs around eating hotdogs
>remember how Apocalypse was all about survival of the fittest?
>fuck you, he's now a sadboi who misses his wife and kids (who are all much more powerful than him) and he just wanted Kid Butterfly to roam free in paradise island
>remember Sinister?
>fuck you, he's just a fag now, that's it
>remember when [...]
They've turned even villains into the same safe caricatures now. There's literally no character left to anyone. "Villains" now are just either generic "meanies" or some self-righteous faggot who wants to kill all "problematic people" now instead of later. How the Hell did everything become so safe and sanitized?

>>149930326 (OP)
Is Kang still sexist? I don't know if they've downplayed that part of him or used it to deride and belittle the character....non-comic readers are already doing that with him being botched by the MCU or using out of context poor showings of him in comics they've not read as a shallow gotcha.

>>149930326 (OP)
Remember when Whirlwind was just a bank robber mutant named the Human Top?
Now he’s a crazy incel stalker with a hard on for Janet Van Dyne, who fucks prostitute who he pays to dress as the Wasp, and he gets off on killing them after banging them. The younger the better.

>>149930326 (OP)
>who cares about "everyone being fed and happy" and sacrifices his own people
you've never read anything about Doom outside of le epic events

>>149930448
I mean, him simping for Janet is the most consistent and explored part of his character even in his older characterisation. I know what you are referring to but that seems like one writer making it especially creepy when most other writers don't go to overboard beyond David being fine with killing people while robbing and his delusions with simping for Janet where it cost him an actual relationship with the villainess Firebrand.

>>149930511
Whirlwind wants that Waspussy.

>>149930326 (OP)
Never forget that guys like Purple Man, Mandrill and Shadow King exist

>>149930548
want that waspussy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGxSJSGxYJA

>>149930643
You should be allowed to be a racist or a supremacist or a murderous dictator and exist as a popular villain.
OP's complaint is that the big names have been sanitized. It's like the rapists are the only ones that aren't allowed to be sanitized. Look at the fandom never letting Deathstroke move past what happened with Terra.

>>149930485
He's literally complaining about Doom's current storyline that's running for most of the year. Who Marvel have turned Doom into right now is a valid complaint.

>>149930548
I think even Whirlwind's supervillain friends make fun of him over his simping for Wasp.


>>149930643
OP has a real point about Marvel turning a lot of their big, popular, well-known villains into neutered unthreatening shadows of their former glory, and in some cases has turned them into crap antiheroes who are just slightly edgier than the heroes but basically share the same values. Some of the only major villains left who haven't been ruined like this are Carnage and Red Skull, because you can't sanitize a serial killer and a Nazi.

It doesn't matter if some lower-tier villains that nobody really cares about are still allowed to be really reprehensible, irredeemable villains, it doesn't really matter that you can name a few villains who are even allowed to be rapey. The villains who actually sell comics just by showing up have almost all been ruined by the current generation.

With Norman Osborn it's at least all because of weird magic stuff, and like Inverted Sabretooth in the 2010s, we all know Marvel can just reverse this in a single issue whenever they want to, but I don't know how you even fix most of the others. Even /co/ chimped out the last time a Marvel writer seriously tried to make Magneto a villain, for example.

>>149930755
>He's literally complaining about Doom's current storyline that's running for most of the year. Who Marvel have turned Doom into right now is a valid complaint.
yeah and its an event which is exactly why I said that

>>149930708
Dr Doom has Prima Nocta law, or Droit de Seigneur, in Latveria but OP says he’s sanitized.
So Doom rapes any female he pleases as they’re Latveria citizens. This is canon.

>>149930326 (OP)
Stop consuming big2 slop and read good comics instead.
Skill issue
>implying OP reads comics and isn't just outrage farming like a gay jigaboo

>Still a murder machine
>Still irredeemably evil
>Managed to get a sad backstory and sympathetic arc in headgames without trying to act like he could ever be in the right for his actions
>Part of the best villain organization
STILL THE BEST

>>149930796
Show me a comic published in the last 25 years where Doom took his pleasure with one of his people like that.

>>149930762
It's an event written by the current Fantastic Four writer. You think that guy's going to characterize Doom differently in FF afterwards?

Time will tell if it sticks with later writers, but for the foreseeable future this is what Doom's going to be like.

>>149930796
Pulling up evidence of something a villain did decades ago when the writer wanted to treat them like a villain is missing the point of the whole thread. You may as well post evidence of Loki or Norman killing someone, or Magneto doing terrorism. It's not how they're being written now.

>>149930821
Is the current MODOK even the original George Tarleton, or is it still the clone that was created in the early 2010s?

>>149930548
It's still hilarious to me that Whirlwind is always a Wasp simp except in EMH which has the best and sexiest Janet ever.

>>149930886
>or is it still the clone that was created in the early 2010s?
They've established that he's been cloned and died so many times that there's really no point to making the distinction. That original de-modoked George hasn't really appeared in anything

>>149930919
Thanks, anon, I still ship it.

>>149930886
MODOK is still a clone but I don't really mind that since it lets George Tarleton have a happy ending while still keeping MODOK around in a way that fits. It suits him more then Kraven having the clone son he commissioned and had murdered his other clone siblings to prove himself to his suicidal dad.

>>149930886
>>149930957
If we start getting semantic over clones/copies/all the other various questionable ways to revive people then we'd have to start questions about basically everyone in Marvel.

>>149930994
If the original George Tarleton is still alive, and just cured of being MODOK, I don't think there's any argument that can be made for a clone of him being "the real MODOK", the way we can have that conversation about characters where the original is dead and then a clone was made. >>149930981 brings up Kraven's clone, and that clone was made BEFORE he died, so we can't pretend that guy's the original either.

>>149930919
Mysterio's POV.

>>149930326 (OP)
>implying there was ever a time Sinister wasn't a gigantic faggot

>>149931031
The MODOK who got cured was probably also a clone, considering MODOK had body-farms and such running already in-case of his death. I would like to see the cured George return and interact with MODOK, because MODOK would probably hate him for having a normal human life, but the fact that our current MODOK's a clone isn't really too important.

>>149931039
People always joked about the way Sinister looked, but he was WRITTEN as a cold, creepy mastermind. Then Gillen started writing him as a camp quipster, Hickman followed his lead, and retards liked it so much le 'hilarious' funnyman Sinister has stuck.

>>149931032
You have to go back, Pedro.

>>149931099
My name is Xehanort, not Pedro.

>>149931054
The word "probably" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there though.

That the current MODOK is a clone is not normally important just because 99% of writers probably don't even know or care. Remember how Red Skull through most of the 2010s was a clone that was created during WWII and had no memories past that point, then at some point writers just forgot and wrote him like he was the original?

>>149930326 (OP)
Magneto and Doom becoming more anti-heroes than villains has been happening for years due to Doomwankers/Magnetowankers in the industry (and then spreading that wank onto the normalfags), through at least Doom gets yanked back to at least be a villain eventually.
Loki is just what happens when a bad guy becomes a tumblr sexyman.
Honestly, have no idea why they did Norman this way.

>>149931116
Sure, whatever you say, Pedro.

>>149930953
He started to simp her in that. When Jan came and visited him in prison and teased him, even calling him his real name.

>>149931138
Norman’s got that “my son died following in my evil footsteps and it’s all my fault” energy. So yeah he’s a Grand-DILF now that girls want.

>>149930326 (OP)
In their defense a regrettable but sizeable amount of comic readers stopped caring about villains over hero vs hero shenanigans, it makes sense from a business standpoint to soften up edges and lean antagonists towards flawed protagonist archetypes if that seems to be the sort of dynamic customers look for while gushing about how neat it would be for Superman, Batman, Iron Man and so on to go dark.

And for Magneto and Loki so far it's more or less worked for their character reception compared to their original incarnations, though I'd argue Magneto was always going to have presence through being a central X-Men figure.

I know it seems like a shitty excuse, but this is one of the cases where it tracks. For example, aside from the highly questionable White Knight series, characters like Joker haven't been toned down but in fact made more vile because that seems to be what makes him profitable with comic fans and general audiences. Want classic villains and stories? Talk more frequently and fervently online and irl about them, you can't effectively vote with your wallet in this day and age but you can become a moderately effective shill to influence people yet to form an idea of superhero comics now that they're becoming widespread.
All the comictubers do it weekly around things they barely care about just to pay bills, so make a youtube shorts channel showing moments and feats where the villains shine in their villainy. But avoid speaking disparagingly about the current depictions like in OP, the average joe tends to tune out whenever he thinks someone biased is telling him what to think compared to someone experienced merely making a strong suggestion.

>>149931219
How many of Daredevil’s girlfriends has Bullseye murdered yet?

>>149931138
>Doomwankers
This pisses me off the most because people did the whole "Dr Doom would respect gay people and give them equal rights in latveria" bit on twitter as a joke, because the joke is that he's evil and this is only brought up to dunk on reed richards or whatever, but then people took it as if Doom actually has some sort of ethics or morals that make sense and isn't a fascist dictator whose honor code mostly exists to serve his own ego. It makes Doom alot less grounded to try and portray his motivations as being normal human desires and rational wants because the desires of a dictator are often irrational and self-serving, dictators aren't misguided altruists.

>>149930326 (OP)
I feel as though Magneto can be given a pass. He is a product of the changing political environment.
He represented a radical force for liberation against the forces of tyranny. He was never on the "wrong" side he just had the wrong methods... he was a villain only because of perspective.

Norman is a spider-man villain you know that bitch gonna do a 180 after every new writer.

Loki's change in the comics was inevitable. The middle age female tumbler crowd is too large a demographic... Thirsty women buy comics...

Doom hasnt gotten a good run since God Emperor Doom... I think writers are lost what to do with him.


plus all the villains these days are multiverse ending threats... comics are just going to keep ramping up until the next reset.

I think generally modern writers are obsessed with making sympathetic villains now because complex characters make for good storytelling.. But thats kinda lazy right? Either way sympathetic villain are the new norm in every piece of media not just comics.... I honestly blame Darth Vader.

>>149931322
Eh, it's not like it's a new thing. Ignoring all of Doom's issues to glaze him has been a thing for years.

>>149931365
>I feel as though Magneto can be given a pass. He is a product of the changing political environment.
>He represented a radical force for liberation against the forces of tyranny. He was never on the "wrong" side he just had the wrong methods... he was a villain only because of perspective.
Anon, no. People didn't even know wha a mutant was or that they were real, then Magneto showed up and started a race war, openly wanted to conquer the world and enslave humans, and didn't really care about "his people" beyond their usefulness as henchmen. And then that guy started playing the victim and pretending he did it all to protect mutants from oppression that wasn't even happening because nobody knew they existed.

And this clown set the tropes for "akshually the villain was the real hero all along" before Darth Vader, who just got a moment of redemption moments before his death. He only gets away with it because of his fangirls telling people to just ignore the first twenty years of his existence and also the 1990s and early 2000s and pretend he's a good boy who did nothing wrong.

>>149930326 (OP)
"now"

>>149930326 (OP)
Magneto was inevitable from the moment they made him a holocaust survivor.

>>149931138
>Loki is just what happens when a bad guy becomes a tumblr sexyman.
Why can't he be a tumblr sexyman and still be a violent chaotic asshole?

>>149931322
All of that is fine as long as it is clear that Doom is simply paying lip service for the sake of optics. Like "there is no religious strife in Latveria between Muslims and Christians" is true because both churches and mosques are run directly by the state and used as a method of control and surveillance so anyone having issues gets unpersoned. For all his bluster, Doom is very, very concerned with how others see him and carefully curates his public image.

To me personally, I'm only interested in Doom when he's a duplicitous bastard in it for himself whose ego outpaces his abilities, but I also think there is room for a guy who has genuinely utopian ideals and horrifyingly brutal methods to achieve and sustain it. The kind of guy who reads Those Who Walk Away from Omelas and thinks they could have doubled their prosperity and happiness by torturing an additional kid.

>>149930326 (OP)
I don't know how you think we think of you out here in civilization OP but pretty much everywhere east of greece is ratboys as far as we're concerned

eat your cheese and shut up

>>149932186
...What are you even talking about, you delusional retard?

>>149930326 (OP)
>Make hyper nationalistic dictator
>He is, also, the villain
>Literally freest globohomo win
>Don't go that route
HUH?????

>>149930326 (OP)
Look at Mystique and Destiny

>>149930326 (OP)
How has Thanos been holding up?

>>149934029
They're both totally whitewashed of their crimes and are now just
>be gay, do crime
That's not a good argument.
>>149934112
Got hit with the synergy ray and since then is in the background doing nothing. He also fucked Hela.

>>149931186
Excuse you, I do not desire the Green Goblin. Norman is my son. Chronologically paradoxical, yes, but the sentiment remains. Sometimes parental rights transcend chronology and I’m here to roast that fictional construct like Sunday dinner.