Thread 149938977

why do grown adults complain when a comic book movie is grim/dark? if you consider the fact that the reason Hollywood is producing comic book movies in the first place is because it appeals and draws in GROWN ADULT audiences who spend their paychecks on it, shouldn’t said movie appeal to adults?
are we seriously going to pretend that adults want to see “light-hearted” “hopeful” movies like the brave little toaster in a movie theater? this makes even less sense when you consider the fact that the selling point of comic books is action (like Action Comics?) so yes, drama will inevitably involve people dying, people getting shot and killed, people experiencing tragic accidents etc. which every family has had to deal with at some point, including children, it’s relatable and relevant to everyone. it’s not “unnecessarily edgy", it’s just normal life.

>>149938977 (OP)
Doomdomestic? What?

>>149938977 (OP)
>it’s just normal life.
If I wanted to see normal life, I wouldn't be going to see a movie about a flying man using his superpowers to save the world.

>>149939003
Domestic beer. He wants a PBR.

>>149938977 (OP)
>are we seriously going to pretend that adults want to see “light-hearted” “hopeful” movies like the brave little toaster in a movie theater?
No, I'd rather see “light-hearted” “hopeful” movies like Superman.

>>149938977 (OP)
>are we seriously going to pretend that adults want to see “light-hearted” “hopeful” movies like the brave little toaster in a movie theater?
...what does this have to do with being/not being an adult? I would rather go see the Brave Little Toaster in theaters than any cape flick.
Are you twelve?

>>149938977 (OP)
>Normal life is edgy and grimdark, it's just realism bro
Holy shit, a teenager from 2007 got caught in a time warp and started posting on 4chan

>>149938977 (OP)
Grimdark appeals to teens, not adults.

>>149939003
Domestic but pronounced doomestic. Like Boo-urns.

>>149938977 (OP)
>why do grown adults complain when a comic book movie is grim/dark?
You don't know what grimdark means, Superman is literally the opposite of that genre.

>>149938977 (OP)
>He doesn't balance his grimdark with wholesome and cute
Fatal mistake.

>>149938977 (OP)
Pathetic.
Weak, nearsighted, a waste of my time, everyone else's, and board space.
Failure to understand the genre, the assignment, and the character origins.
Pathetic.

>>149938977 (OP)
Man of Steel/BvS issues aren't that they are grimdark, the problem has always been Snyder and how visually he can make something similar to a source material but loses a lot of actual meaning creating a divisive product. WB wanted their universe to be different from Marvel so bet on making it like the Nolan Batman movies: David S Goyer wrote the thing, Hans Zimmer did the music and Nolan came back as a producer all in an effort to do this. Man of Steel didn't do the numbers the Executives wanted as they were comparing it to the Avengers hence why they went towards BvS team up rather than a slow build up. Originally they tried to get Nolan to be their Kevin Feige and even tried to get Christian Bale back as Batman to retroactively make the Nolan films the DCEU but Nolan and Bale said no. Nolan is a blockbuster director whose skill is making people feel clever even when he has to spell out the meaning, like in TDK the several exposition scenes expressing the Joker's philosophy. Snyder's problem is that he is simply not as good as Nolan at expressing meaning. Snyder is to Nolan how Roland Emmerich is to Steven Spielberg. Roland Emmerich has tried to make blockbusters with the same sort of schmaltzy feeling as Spielberg but something always gets lost in translation and his films always come across worse. Snyder simply failed at getting across the meaning but a lot of people latched on to the feeling that his films had a deep meaning and made this a big part of their identity. If you don't understand what I mean, look at Watchmen. Snyder completely changes many scenes, not even talking about the Squid, but stuff involving Rorschach feels completely changed. So visually and acting wise it can hit many notes and make you feel like it is in keeping with the comic, but meaning wise it loses a lot in translation. And the problem is the audience fill in the blanks because they want to feel intelligent.

>>149939622
schizo ramblings

>>149938977 (OP)
>are we seriously going to pretend that adults want to see “light-hearted” “hopeful” movies like the brave little toaster in a movie theater
>pretend
no need to pretend

>>149939622
I just think Snyder's stuff is bland. Barely any of the characters in his superhero films have anything resembling personality and that goes for the Snyder Cut as well. Bland, brooding, and grim with little in the way of anything I can latch onto or give a fuck about. People love to jerk off Cavill's Superman for some reason but I genuinely couldn't tell you a single thing about him or his personality and I have seen every single movie he is in. Same goes for his Batman or the rest of the Justice League.

Gunn, meanwhile, has the opposite problem in that all of his characters, while distinct, are some different flavor of le epic quirk chungus. I can certainly talk about the differences between his Superman, Guy Gardner, Rocket Raccoon and Dr. Phosphorus - but they're all still ridiculous to the point of being unrealistic cartoon characters. Honestly though I still prefer that because we're dealing with comic books here and at least Gunn's characters are fun to watch sometimes.

>>149940428
I sometimes think Snyder's ideas would be better as anime, Rebel Moon especially comes across that way and I think Army of the Dead would too. It fits that space.
>I just think Snyder's stuff is bland
I dunno why I can't call it bland? I mean it kind of is but I just like the comparison to Nolan like the Roland Emmerich to Spielberg rather than just calling it bland. It is that feeling that they are doing a lot of the same stuff with the same intent but missing the mark in a lot of it and the audience either kind of fills in the gap and pretends it is the same or the audience has this odd feeling when consuming it where it feels completely hollow.

>>149938977 (OP)
Because if I wanted to be reminded about normal everyday life why am I watching this film instead of just turning on the news or going outside?

>>149939622
That was such a weird show

>>149940524
I just think his ideas are flat out dumb, making it in a different medium wouldn't change that much. Like that Norse Mythology show he did has much of the same problems he's guilty of in his other movies.

>>149939121
>flopped

>>149938977 (OP)
Only Superman fans do, literally no other comic book fans care when iron man kills seventy Muslims in the name of blood oil- Batman was napping dudes with a sawed off shotgun in Batman v Superman and I didn’t hear any Batman fans crying, they said batfleck was awesome- Black Panther was putting dudes to rest in the first half of civil war and crickets.

Superman fans are the only ones who think that some comical no kill rule holds ANY WEIGHT in a real life dramatization of a superhero film, as if they’d be begging for Clark to spare Zod in real life

>>149939121
Clearly you are in the useless minority, given the movie flopped.

>>149941184
>I just think his ideas are flat out dumb, making it in a different medium wouldn't change that much.
Oh I'm not saying it would be better. I am more saying that his dumb ideas kind of fit a pseudo intellectual immature anime fans understand of depth. Especially those movies I mentioned.

>>149941302
Nope not really. People feel like something is off throughout but only mention a few big things which get well memed and spread. The problem isn't the Zod killing, the problem is that we have no idea who brood man is because we get rather little with him throughout the whole movie. The movie is like a montage of crap and not a story developing. People latch on to the killing thing because it is easier to articulate than saying that structurally the film is completely nonsense.

>>149938977 (OP)
Making Superman grim, dark and autistic is like making Don Diego de la Vega a raging faggot.
In that only faggots would defend it.
Faggot.

>>149941302
Heh. I can see them reeeeeeing that Supes snapped the lunatic's neck while ignoring he was about to get stronger than Supes and planned to genocide mankind, and most importantly, that Supes immediately showed massive remorse so it's not like we're gonna get an Injustice kind of setting where he's all like "oh it's that easy. Well I should've been snapping necks ages ago!"

Let's be honest anons, though. A lot of the smear campaign against Man of Steel was Marvel fans not wanting the competition. Even though the DC movies were going for an almost entirely different market being more serious and stuff. And the main people to blame are Warner Bros for panicking that "OMG it made 700M instead of 800M! Quick fire everybody and put different people in charge, and copy the quips and all that stuff marvel does!"

>>149941454
That’s nonsense, I just watched the film, Clark is a calm and stoic man with the weight of the world on his shoulders due to Zod’s impending threats and learning the truth of why his parents sent him to Earth, he keeps his fathers values of helping during a crisis even if he told him to hide himself from the world because it’s the right thing to do, watch as I do not as I say- funny enough the core scene that’s made to establish this is memed.

No idea why people say we didn’t know anything about Clark in MOS, he was a pretty straightforward character

>>149941528
>while ignoring he was about to get stronger than Supes
From what?
From fucking what? half a day's sun exposure? Or was it his incredible "getting my ass kicked by Science Caste guys" super skills at fighting?
>Let's be honest anons
You first Sanjeet.

>>149940428
>but they're all still ridiculous to the point of being unrealistic cartoon characters.
How so? They're definitely comic book characters but they're not really that zany or quirky

>>149941542
Because we have a boring motange of him travelling the world that says nothing. We have the meme of "stop invincible son" and the stuff with his father could have been interesting but ended up messy. All that stuff you just said is you projecting onto the movie, not text or subtext the movie is really displaying in a decent or profound way. This Clark is so underdeveloped he just turns up at the end at the Daily Planet like nothing happened. He is a straightforwardly bland character that people insist has depth where there is little.

>>149941542
How did we know nothing about Clark in MOS, but we do about Clark in 2025?
Oh, I know. In 2025 he acts like a manchild and we've seen that character a million times before over the last decade of superhero slop, so even though we don't see anything about him, we "know" him.
Blame is on Snyder for not delivering any of the usual slop. Heck, how dare him give Superman a suit instead of a jacket with marvel lines like everybody else. How am I supposed to know it's his superhero suit without the lines?

>>149940428
>Cavill's Superman for some reason but I genuinely couldn't tell you a single thing about him or his personality
Sullen
Hesitant
Easily frustrated
Prone to fits of rage.

>>149941554
Weren't you watching, retard? At the start of the fight Zod could only leap. Halfway through the fight he suddenly gains the laser vision. And by the end of the fight he was already flying.
So yes. From just fucking half a day of sun exposure he was growing exponentially. Maybe watch the fucking the movie instead of tilting your head back and saying "hoho indian" all the time, you broken bot.

This is the most forced movie rivalry since Alita and Captain Marvel

>>149941585
>In 2025 he acts like a manchild
Fucking Snyderman was being an incel drifter until some reporter told him "why don't you just go be super".
Then he needs his gf and mommy to motivate him to save the planet in JUSTice League (either version).

>>149941528
Marvel fans definitely made sure to incite a smear campaign but no- Superman fans really are just that level of stunted and distilled manchildren who never grew up with the character- that’s why all the modern Superman writers suck because they only recognize the character as the concept they absorbed as a child: the perfect strongman who’s pure in all ways- aka Jesus with lasers.

Literally no other comic fans care when their guy or girl kills in other adaptations, scarlet witch fans were practically rooting for Wanda to end Dr Strange in his own film.

Superman fans cannot disassociate themselves with the character and that’s why he’s not allowed to be cool, if Clark messes up or does something morally grey or questionable then they see it as they’ve done that themselves, and now they can no longer believe in the g*d they’ve constructed

It’s idol worship

>>149941608
He was just getting his big-boy full adult Superguy powers. Which at most puts him back on par with Supes, and Zod loses every single goddamn fight he's ever in in the movie.
He's as tough as Donald Rumsfeld or Lindsay Graham. And when Clark's autism kicks into gear he kills him like a toddler.

>>149938977 (OP)
Why is Superman such a box office cancer

>>149938977 (OP)
Snyderverse is dead little brother. Get over it you're not an edgy teenager anymore

>>149941656
He was tarnished by 6 shit movies in a row, then handed over to Gunn to make "Gunn formula movie".
Also, he's not Batman.

>>149941656
2 Roger Corman tier movies, except worse, then a "Return" that picks up the worst plot point ever introduced by hack Richard Lester, then Snyder makes him even more autistic than Routhman or Dr Manhattan, as if on a dare.
Then he fights a character sabotaged Batman for stupid raisins, followed by the colossal fucku ps that were JUSTice League and Justice League: Superextended Cut with Autism Restored.

>>149941646
>Literally no other comic fans care when their guy or girl kills in other adaptations
People were massively bitching about Batman in BvS too. Exact same shit.

>>149941582
It’s not projecting onto the movie it’s literally what the movie was bro, it’s a classical storytelling that’s how films used to be everything didn’t need to be shown overtly or explained through dialogue you view it as you view your regular life- you haven’t ever picked up on how someone felt or what they were implying without them having to speak? If you say no you’re lying.

You called that stuff boring, that’s your subjective opinion but it was world building, showing us who Clark Kent/Kal-El the MAN is before he put the suit on, which is something Gunn’s film sorely missed in my opinion, he’s a drifter working odd jobs because he doesn’t really belong, he’s stuck between trying to live a normal life even tho it’s eating him alive that people are suffering every day and he has the power to change that but doesn’t want to expose himself to the entire world- he still lives with his mother and takes care of her in the absence of his deceased father when it’s far beyond time to go out and find himself- that’s real mature grown man shit that I guess most Superman fans just don’t understand- the transition from his earth father saying to hide himself and his kryptonian father telling him to be a protector is what bridges the man and the hero together, it’s a film about fatherhood.

But I digress, I liked it and I thought it was her great,everyone has their opinions

>>149941646
The Avengers are assholes, soldiers, mercenaries and assassins.
Note they don't have Spider-Man neck snappering anyone, even Hulk let Blonsky live after he tried to kill his girl.
People just aren't into Murder Superfriends.
These guys have been on TV for literally half a century. People know when they are being fucked up.

>>149941585
Gunn doesn’t believe in origin stories because he doesn’t respect the craft of storytelling- it’s just a vehicle to project his trauma and fetishes on people, if he had to give Clark an origin story then he wouldn’t be able to make him a stunted manchild like himself because that’s all he can write.

He says they’re pointless- getting to know people is pointless according to James Gunn, how narcissistic, no idea why he would be given Superman with that ideology

>>149941834
>Gunn doesn’t believe in origin stories
Batman and Superman do not need more origin movies. The Sentinel Island natives might know about Krypton and Crime Alley.

>>149941857
A chance to have your own take on a classic tale and how it affects your version of the character? Not needed- glad writing is such a respected art form these days, no wonder the industry is the drizzling sh*ts- that’s called laziness, you don’t believe people will buy in if you start from the beginning so you take advantage of having an already established character to write the story you want- both those films could have been original IPs and nothing changes

>>149941791
>it’s a classical storytelling that’s how films used to be everything didn’t need to be shown overtly
See this is the argument people fall back on, the idea that it was subtle storytelling. But actually it was non existent storytelling not classical storytelling. It just ignored showing, even subtly, a lot. But for some reason people project a lot onto the film and act like it was mature. Stuff like Kevin Costner's message to Clark is really messy and that is why it became a meme, it wasn't subtle, it just couldn't decide what it wanted to be because it never really truly explored that theme.

Look at that picture you posted, it is Superman on an oil rig and it tells us nothing because all it ends up being is a CGI scene and nothing more. You could easily rewrite that scene and with very little make it say something. How about Clark is on the fishing boat and tells the captain to get closer to pick up survivors, they refuse, then he takes matters into his own hand, scene plays out, maybe Clark doesn't know the full scope of his powers and we see him straining while trying to get people out, maybe it looks like the workers are about to die, when boom the fishing ship comes in and rescues people but he goes back in when it explodes. A simple rewrite could add some tension, he doesn't know the full scope of his powers whilst also show him saving and inspiring others. Instead we just get a scene as part of a montage and nothing more. I still maintain Cavill could have been a great Superman if he was given more to work with but unfortunately he was barely given scraps.

So to reiterate, the movie ends up making the character bland and not living up to its themes, it isn't subtle it is weak Goyer material and needed something to it.

>>149941898
Fucking Superman has been repeating the same 3 movie plots since the 70's.
No, we don't need the umpteenth take on Zod or Luthor blowing up the coast, and I'm sad we got Luthor building a Krypton-Monster to beat up Superman again.
The character has THOUSANDS of comics, same 3 fucking movie scripts.

>>149941921
That’s how you would have wrote it, cool- I can rewrite Se7en, it’s still gonna be a great film

>>149938977 (OP)
Superman is a relic of the past where all you needed was a mega strong pulp hero and some throwaway villain ideas to have a successful comic. Superman sucks now because it's hard to write a story with actual stakes when you have this guy who is the personification of the win button. That's why so many modern Superman stories are Superman but evil or Superman struggles with how to be a hero. Regular Superman would end a movie in 15 minutes tops if it was actually well written.

>>149941933
Now that’s a different forte- but you can use an original antagonist WHILE STILL SHOWING THE ORIGIN- that’s what separates your Clark/Superman from the others, how does it affect him? If James Gunn wants his Superman to be a punk rock lovable loser- then start from the beginning so we can see why he ends up this way, that’s all I’m asking, I’m not asking for the world/ it could have taken literally 5 minutes

>>149941953
>That’s how you would have wrote it
Anon, you missed the point. I am saying those scenes added little. They weren't even subtle. A bunch of visuals for the sake of it. The point of that little rewrite is to say that you could easily add some meaning and themes in places. Not even saying you needed overt messages, I am literally saying you could have been subtle in places to actually improve the film. But we are talking past each other at this point.

>>149938977 (OP)
>why do grown adults complain when a comic book movie is grim/dark
Because everyone trying to be batman
Superman isnt batman
>>149939622
/thread

>>149942000
Yea we are, I mean hey, the eye of the beholder they say.

Good talk

>>149941999
Amateur Superman is fucking boring.
There's hundreds of hours of teevee amateur Superman bullshit. And Greatest American Hero, which is more of the same shit. It's not THAT endearing.

Gunn asks you to ignore Snyderman, Lesterman and his derivative Singerman, and just presume more or less the thousand hours of teevee, comic, cartoon, radio and early movie Supes, the character the world is familiar with, and go with it.

>>149941379
is this supposed to make you not seem like a screeching customer support representative?

>>149941528
The entire point with Superman killing Zod is that the writers wrote it that way. They could have easily banished him back to the Phantom Zone with the rest of the Kryptonians but went out of their way to create a contrived scenario to force Superman to get blood on his hands. Even worse when they doubled down in BvS with the Knightmare bullshit.

>>149941379
Did it though? The movie more than made back its budget of around $375-425 million and a direct sequel has already been green light and is being fast tracked

>>149941646
>stunted and distilled manchildren who never grew up with the character- that’s why all the modern Superman writers suck because they only recognize the character as the concept they absorbed as a child: the perfect strongman who’s pure in all ways- aka Jesus with lasers.

So Zack Snyder?

>>149940524
>I sometimes think Snyder's ideas would be better as anime, Rebel Moon especially comes across that way and I think Army of the Dead would too. It fits that space.
You're just saying random bullshit to make him sound less retarded aren't you?

>>149941302
I'm fine with Superman killing someone because he has no choice. Him killing Zod isn't the problem in that movie, the entire rest of the movie is the problem.

>>149941585
Murder's suit is textured like a basketball dude if you hate Superman's suit, and I can see why anyone should, you should hate Murderman's suit

>>149941302
>in the name of blood oil
Instant thirdie seethe, good of you to mark yourself like this immediately.
>and I didn’t hear any Batman fans cryin
Holy selective memory.

>>149938977 (OP)
>drama will inevitably involve people dying, people getting shot and killed, people experiencing tragic accidents etc.
I mean, Gunn's Superman had all that. Luthor shoots the one dude in the head, there's various battle scenes and disasters, Hawkgirl straight-up murders the dictator, and so on.

>Snyder
I don't dislike Man of Steel the way some people do, but a lot of it was murky and colorless, and the characters don't have much warmth or humor to them.

Yes, because the first thing an overexploited minimum wage worker wants to see after his 12 hours shift is a depressing movie about how life sucks.

>>149938977 (OP)
I don't get this picture, yo?

>>149946002
Snyder fag

>>149943914
Nope I'm not, read the replies because I said: >>149941427
>Oh I'm not saying it would be better. I am more saying that his dumb ideas kind of fit a pseudo intellectual immature anime fans understand of depth. Especially those movies I mentioned