Thread 150017357

just started daredevil and...

Oh Karen isn't a live action original? That's interesting.

Fucking skank did porn. No shit she got AIDS.

it was the 90s, aids was a big thing

>>150017379
Karen page debuted in the first issue. Daredevil #1 (April 1964)

>>150017504
Yeah I don't really read christcuck characters like DD.

>>150017409
Was it realistic that she got AIDs over ten years later, even in comic time?

>>150017517
Well yes because you're a godless heathen.

Looking back at this I kind of think they may as well retcon this story at some point

i can't imagine mcu karen doing porn

>>150017625
Nobody would have imagined it for the comic version either. Nobody except Frank Miller, and he was writing the book.

>>150017357 (OP)
>gets aids the second she lands in california
what did they mean by this?

>>150017357 (OP)
>Starting Daredevil with Kevin Smith trash
What the fuck is wrong with you?

It's kind of funny how people complain about creators now changing things radically. Frank Miller changed Karen Page from a love interest and girl Friday secretary who had mostly been written out into a drug addict whore.

>>150017787
everyone says to start there at guardian devil then go into Brian Michael Bendis' run

>>150017845
Who is everyone? Certainly not anyone here. Anyone recommending Guardian Devil to you is playing a prank on you

>>150017517
Matt actually wasn't a confirmed catholic until Born Again. To put into perspective, there were more comics where Matt wasn't a catholic until only very recently.

>>150017872
then what to read? frank miller?

>>150017938
Frank Miller, Nocenti, and Chicester

>>150017872
That stuff has commonly appeared in rec lists weirdly enough. Most rec lists are Miller, Dmith, Bendis, Brubaker, then various flavours of modern stuff. Waid, Soule and Zdarsky most commonly. Occasionally people recommend Nocenti or suggest trying the original stuff. And so much of it is in omnibus format now.

>>150017872
>Anyone recommending Guardian Devil to you is playing a prank on you
Based, I always feel alone in hating Guardian Devil, I was surprised Charlie Cox cited it as one of his favorites.

>Mysterio has a shit plan
>Matt calls out Mysterio's shit plan
>After falling for it repeatedly
>Mysterio kills himself as a cheap copy of Kraven's Last Hunt because the point was that he was doing a cheap copy of Kraven's Last Hunt so now it means it's good and not a cheap copy of Kraven's Last Hunt
BRAVO SMITH

>>150018024
>It is a Daredevil is borrowing Spider-Man bad guys episode

>>150018024
>I was surprised Charlie Cox cited it as one of his favorites.
Keep in mind most actors in cape comic adaptations are given a limited selection of "important" stories to look at for source material. It's rare for any of them to go out of their way to look for other stuff themselves, they're usually only going to know the stuff that's put in front of them, and Marvel tend to make sure most of that stuff is from the Quesada era onwards.

At the time, Wizard and Marvel themselves were overhyping Guardian Devil as the best thing Marvel had done in years, and the Bendis run that followed was similarly overhyped, so it's funny that people eventually turned on them.

>>150018099
It's worse than that, anon. It's a Daredevil writer is killing a Spider-Man bad guy and the Spider-Man writers don't even know it's happening episode. It left Mysterio radioactive as a character for years.

>>150018099
Wolverine does it to Daredevil all the time it's fine

>>150017938
Miller wrote the only truly great daredevil run but nocenti, which followed it up, was decent too.

>>150018129
>Keep in mind most actors in cape comic adaptations are given a limited selection of "important" stories to look at for source material. It's rare for any of them to go out of their way to look for other stuff themselves, they're usually only going to know the stuff that's put in front of them, and Marvel tend to make sure most of that stuff is from the Quesada era onwards.
While true, Charlie Cox is actually different, not only he unironically got into Daredevil comics (obviously reading Miller run, Bendis run, some one-offs), he actually even talked about Bob Gale's run and think it'd be funny to pull off costume switch with Spider-man in live action. Now you know he's an actual fan because Marvel has never reprinted Bob Gale's run, they like to pretend it never happened, like, you have to go behind Marvel's back to get Bob Gale's run.

>>150018024
>Justifies Mysterio doing this to Matt because there's rumours about Spider-Man not being the real deal
>Even though Mysterio fought Ben multiple times before that anyway
>And the Clone Saga had been over for a couple of years

>>150017653
Unrionically think California is a cursed place

>>150018190
It's still a modern era run, so it may still be the case that the only older material he may have seen would be Miller, but if he went out of his way to track down individual issues that hadn't been reprinted, and liked it enough to want to adapt scenes from it, good for him for being a real one.

>>150018176
Meh outside of the hand I can’t name any and that was miller’s prerogative and right.

>>150018281
>And the Clone Saga had been over for a couple of years
Guardian Devil canonizing the idea that some of Spidey's longtime villains had figured out, or at least strongly suspected that someone new had taken over being Spider-Man, raises the question of whether they realized the original was back after the Clone Saga ended, or if a lot of them just ended up never really knowing if it's still the same guy, or even if it's always been a bunch of different guys over the years.

>>150018190
>Charlie Cox is actually different
No, he isn’t.
>b-b-but he wrote the intro to the new born again paperback
I don’t care. I’d care if he openly said he wished they ever actually adapted that comic rather than using it as a PR device.

>>150018006
>Guardian Devil
>Echo shilling
>Bendis huffing his own farts with an edgy OC Frogman and some autistic kid
Cursed era. At least the Gale story was fun

>>150018557
I always chuckle when I see someone repeat the meme-opinion that “daredevil has never had a bad run”. Like most characters I’d actually say most of them are pretty lackluster to bad with the few genuine standouts.

>>150018445
Silver Samurai. Lady Deathstrike sort of debuted in Daredevil too. They have a sizeable amount of overlap, about as much as Daredevil has with Spider-Man

>>150018190
I'm almost certain Gale's run is available digitally, so if he was just reading onward from Guardian Devil to get to Bendis's stuff that's how he'd have found it

>>150018639
>Like most characters I’d actually say most of them are pretty lackluster to bad with the few genuine standouts.
Comics need to be placed into context. Most comics were cheap, low profit margins, disposable forms of entertainment. Comics fans hype up runs and you go and read them and it's like okay. I like Miller and his work a plenty but his Daredevil run didn't really do it for me but it's treated like the best thing ever, in part because contextually it was so different and put a stamp on a character that lasted. The hype rec list mentality destroys plenty of interest in comics rather than fostering it.

>>150018458
The thing is that a lot of Spider-Man foes were getting revamped around the same time so the point was kind of moot.
>Norman was behind the whole thing
>Otto was dead
>Lizard was around but not really and got fixed at the end
>Venom and Carnage both knew
>Sandman (although reformed) knew
>Chameleon knew who Peter was under the mask so it didn't matter
Mysterio was pretty much the only one of his long standing foes who didn't know, and he fought Ben twice, which contradicts what Smith laid out

>>150018806
>Comics need to be placed into context. Most comics were cheap, low profit margins, disposable forms of entertainment.
Only a newfag would say this as if it isn’t akin to pointing out the sky is blue. What a resoundingly worthless bit of “context” to add. Also the fact that you don’t like not only daredevils best run but easily the single best run in the history of the company says more about you than the comic itself.

Losers like you deserve an industry of Tom Taylors and Mark Russells.

>>150018858
>.Only a newfag would say this as if it isn’t akin to pointing out the sky is blue. What a resoundingly worthless bit of “context” to add.
90% of /co/ doesn't really know that so yes it is worth point out. Because the rec list hypers don't talk about it and recommend shit and appeal to the authority of shit rather than talking about the actual merits of a series. So much comics hype isn't just about the merits of a story but comparing it to where the character was before and without context that stuff is lost.

>Also the fact that you don’t like not only daredevils best run but easily the single best run in the history of the company says more about you than the comic itself.
I liked the Born Again more but the earlier run with Elektra and The Hand which aren't really very interesting to me in how it was. All you're doing is the same thing you were criticising earlier. You're appealing to the authority of shit. When some dumb rec list tells someone they must like Kevin Smith, you find that dumb. But if someone doesn't like parts of Millers Daredevil you get mad for what? People have different taste. I think Miller has better work and this was earlier for him.
>Losers like you deserve an industry of Tom Taylors and Mark Russells.
Now you're just being a spiteful cunt rather than talking about anything. Go fuck yourself.

>>150019011
I’m happy you started reading comics and posting here pretty recently, really, but you should probably stop trying to speak with such authority.

>christcuck
Oh my GOD we get it!
You like to suck dicks and take them up the ass, stop talking about it dude!

>>150017357 (OP)
How can aids exist in a world with scientist that can travel to alternate universes and to the distant planets?

>>150019037
You know nothing about anything and all you're doing is talking shit.
>Omg this is the best run ever guys and you must like it or else
This attitude has ruined comics because we can't ever talk about things in any nuance or depth because people like you throw a shit fit. You're exactly why things are in the gutter.

>>150019056
because God wanted Karen to have aids. it's part of DD to accept what god has planned for you

>>150019011
>>150018811
With all due respect you’re talking about merit, or lackthereof, while only offering that “it didn’t work me for” as if you’re the arbiter of quality and taste. To say nothing of you acting as if you’re the only anon capable of discussion on /co/ which, as with every time some insufferable faggot like you spouts the same trite “/co/ doesnt read comics” nonsense, begs the question: why even post here?

>>150019086
What nuance have you employed?
>comics are disposable trash
>the best comics ever written? Sorry chief! It didn’t do it for me!
You’ve not offered alternative runs you find superior, you’ve not offered any sort of in-depth critique, you have quite literally done nothing but suck your own dick in a sad attempt at displaying any shred of intellectual worth.

>>150018806
>but it's treated like the best thing ever
Name a better marvel run

>>150017517
based

>>150019160
>if you’re the arbiter of quality and taste.
Anon, do you have a stick up your butt? You've read into things like "he's saying he's the arbiter of all taste" where no where did I mention or imply that. I have no idea how you inferred that. I never said no one read comics. I said 90% of /co/ doesn't know that, a clear exaggeration, but as a point it's clear that people don't really talk with nuance or context a lot of the time which leads to situations like OP reading that stuff.

My post was a quick explainer about rec list mentality. Why did I mention it? Because OP was reading Kevin Smith Daredevil because it's recommended in lists. Constantly appealing to lists without explanations is shit and ends up in these situations and context and discussion about characters would fix that. You've turned a quick mention into something else entirely and decided I'm arrogantly declaring myself arbiter of quality when it is you who started getting hostile at me saying I deserve Tom Taylors?

I don't mean this patronisingly, I mean it sincerely, what the hell man? Are you okay? You're just being a cunt for no reason.

>>150019266
>>150019198
You've both got the wrong end of the stick in what I was talking about. See:
>>150019298

>>150019298
I’m clearly not that anon you stooge. I notice you dodged every point. Especially annoying because you definitely also saw my other post here: >>150019198
Let’s see if you can answer in simple bullet point format.
>what specific critiques of miller’s daredevil do you have. Ignore your precious context. Focus on the run. What is lacking?
>what daredevil run would you say is better? Matter of fact, open it up to what anon said here >>150019266

And lastly, for funsies
>why post here?

I just like a good, solid run. I'm not looking for every story to be some epic magnum opus of the medium, I just want to sit down and enjoy some stories

>>150019298
>>150019011
>>150018806
Holy shit, you talk a whole lot but say very little.

>it didn’t work for me
>they aren’t very interesting to me in how it was

truly riveting shit

>>150019385
>I’m clearly not that anon you stooge.
I know you're not all the same anons, I simply was talking about something else.
>I notice you dodged every point.
I dodged nothing, I was simply referring back to the thread and OP to explain a simple point but you've all gotten mad over nothing. Seriously, what is the problem?
>what specific critiques of miller’s daredevil do you have. Ignore your precious context. Focus on the run. What is lacking?
You ask me to ignore context but I am really confused what the fuck you want out of me? I just made a simple point on rec list mentality. I was not shitting on Miller, I like Miller's work, and I said I liked the Born Again part more than the earlier run. Just my subjective opinion is all. Do you want me to go into depth about the earlier part? My opinions on The Hand, Elektra and the transition from silver age DD to Bronze Age DD?
>what daredevil run would you say is better? Matter of fact, open it up to what anon said here
For what purpose? So I name some runs I like and you say you prefer Miller's Daredevil to them? Again, to be clear I am not shitting on Miller. And no where did I say there are better or worse Daredevil runs. A lot of the Marvel runs I like are the silver age classics desu.
>why post here?
I don't even know anymore. Because people take a misunderstanding and turn it into something else.
>>150019487
What do you even want anymore, anon?

>>150019046
But enough about Judaism

>>150019392
He didn't kill millions.

>>150019639
Kill yourself, faggot

why did my thread buttblast this dude >>150019676
it's fine bro i'll read frank miller's daredevil instead

>>150019639
>Do you want me to go into depth about the earlier part? My opinions on The Hand, Elektra and the transition from silver age DD to Bronze Age DD?
Obviously yes. I want you to display some of the nuance you seem to think the board is lacking. I want you to live up to the incredibly high opinion you have of yourself and actually critique the thing you said “didn’t do it for you”.

>>150017357 (OP)
I can't believe a former prostitute/porn star (canon since the 1980s) lcontracted an STI

>>150017815
That's the nature of the biz. You make radical changes, and if people love it, it sticks, but people will bitch no matter what.

>>150019682
Do you mean your reply to the thread newfag?

>>150019056
Because Reed Richards is a DICK. Lateveria has no aids, and not only does wakkanda also have one, it has a cure for it. Hell, muties are cannonically immune.

>>150018006
>Miller, Dmith, Bendis, Brubaker, then various flavours of modern stuff. Waid, Soule and Zdarsky most commonly.
And yet miller’s is the only run worth recommending frankly, pun intended.

>>150019676
Go fuck yourself.

>>150019696
>I want you to live up to the incredibly high opinion you have of yourself
Put yourself in my shoes for a moment you want my opinion but you've already pre judged me as an arrogant dick. I write an essay and you'll shit all over it right?

>>150019819
Anon you’ve spent 45 minutes refusing to add any nuance or specificity to your comment that miller’s run didn’t do it for you. Zero critique of anything but the board while also failing to add anything of substance making you no better than those you find to be your inferiors.

>>150018639
>I always chuckle when I see someone repeat the meme-opinion that “daredevil has never had a bad run”. Like most characters I’d actually say most of them are pretty lackluster to bad with the few genuine standouts.
Where the fuck did this meme even come from because I have heard it on a bunch of Youtube channels.

>>150019902
>you no better than those you find to be your inferiors.
Anon, what the fuck, I never called anyone my inferiors, why do you keep putting words in my mouth? And yeah I have done nothing, except be insulted, met with hostility and told to kill myself over nothing.

>>150019942
Bots and shills on Twitter and Reddit, mostly.

>>150019968
Actually kill yourself.

>>150019968
I mean honestly if you killed yourself nobody would mourn. You seem incredibly insufferable.

Since miller’s run “didn’t do it for you” I expected you to be able to critique it. You seem incapable of doing so.

>>150017357 (OP)
Her pussy must be stinky as shit from all the aids. Daredevil now has a rotting aids penis.

>>150019968
Nta but you initially started this whole meltdown off with
1. Explaining to the comics board on 4chan that comics are cheap and disposable. Shitting on the medium itself and condescending the rest of the board.
2. Further claiming that 90 percent of the board is more of a newfag than your obvious newfag ass
3. Claiming the best run in the history of the company shouldn’t be on a rec list because it didn’t live up to your expectations
4. Claiming that there is no nuance in discussions after making your own sweeping proclamations and refusing to critique miller’s run after anon asked you over and over

Are you supposed to be on meds or are you undiagnosed?

>>150019970
It feels like it is more than that. People make weird narratives over things.

>>150020079
I mean what “more” could there be beyond paid-for bots and shills from the two biggest media companies in America?

>>150020071
>1.
I never shit on the medium, I love the medium, I think good comics succeeding despite industry issues is a testament to good creators. I never condescended anyone, that's people reading into something not there.
>2.
Never once called anyone a newfag.
>3.
I never said anywhere that it shouldn't be on a rec list, not once. Again, you're shadow boxing. My point was vastly different. What I was actually shitting on was people like the OP stumbling into Kevin Smith's Daredevil because it is recommended.
>4.
What nuance have you added aside from repeating the same trolls?

>>150020118
See I don't think it is marketing bots and shills, for me it is that fans create these weird narratives? I have heard a bunch of people say:
>Marvel has better runs and DC has better limited series!
Which just ignores that a lot of the things they think of as limited series, were fucking runs. Then it gets repeated over and over again until it sticks.

>>150020004
>I mean honestly if you killed yourself nobody would mourn
Super nuanced discussion, I better write a full analysis because I am sure you'll give it a fair read.

>>150020232
>DC has better limited series!
Nta but I feel like that is marketing because I feel like DC pushed the "serious graphic novel" shit a lot with Vertigo, British invasion etc and then that stuck. And the term graphic novel just became a marketing meme anyway. Not that Marvel didn't have graphic novels.

>>150017357 (OP)
Marvel is about REAL ISSUES like AIDS

>>150020313
Dunno why that came out so blurry

>>150020313
I preferred when Death talked about AIDSSSSSS. Obligatory:
https://youtu.be/1lffg88WDRg
https://youtu.be/Oy-F2CXsqTk
https://youtu.be/FbqbjqHvSA0

>>150019766
>That's the nature of the biz. You make radical changes, and if people love it, it sticks, but people will bitch no matter what.
100%

>>150020232
>for me it is that fans create these weird narratives?
Then you’re naive.

>>150020187
I’m not the original anon you were talking to nor the one that asked you to critique Miller (which you atill have yet to do). Just chimed in to objectively tell you what you’d done.

>>150020476
Yet you're objectively wrong.

>>150020453
>Then you’re naive.
What evidence do you have? Comic books barely have any fucking marketing as it is, part of the reason why they languish. Do you really think Marvel get much out of using bots to make a narrative of "Daredevil has consistent runs".

>>150020495
>I tell you how you’re supposed to view what I said!
Not how communication works. this is just a further display of your own arrogance.

>>150020520
They literally get trade sales out of it, yes. That’s the entire point of advertising. Again you sound either extremely naive, very young or, ironically, like a paid poster.

>>150020520
Anon you do realize 70 percent of Twitter is bots right?

>>150020187
>I think good comics succeeding despite industry issues is a testament to good creators
Shame there haven’t been any in the last 5-10 years

>>150020582
This is something I have heard plenty of people irl say, as well as youtube channels.
>>150020565
Again, they don't really market and if they were using bots to boost trade sales I think they would target more than just Daredevil.. you know.. they might get actual real audiences in to read comics overall.

>>150020548
I literally never said the stuff you claimed I said.

>>150019793
If richards cured aids doom would just invent a new version & release it into the world just so he could say "see richards didn't cure shit" they would constantly just be going back & forth

>>150020666
Again, you’re either remarkably naive or a shill to be saying this.

>>150017872
>>150018006
>>150018024
I maintain whoever is recommending Guardian Devil is the one insisting "Daredevil has no bad runs."

>>150022017
Anon, give me some proof or evidence. All your argument is:
>you're a shill or naive
If you think Marvel are using bots to sell Daredevil trades answer the damn question: why aren't they using bots to sell other comics and get better sales then?

>>150017625
Yeah, nobody would get turned on by her so there'd be no audience to sell it to

>>150017956
>Chicester
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Good joke.