Thread 150053784

Why couldnt it beat Superman?

>>150053784 (OP)
Superman was a flop too so winning the cape race is like winning the special olympics. You're still retarded

>>150053784 (OP)
Oh I don't know Feige maybe releasing two films of the same genre two weeks from each other was a bad idea.
It's not 2018 anymore.

>>150053832
>3 out of 4 cbm's this year got good reviews
>Still struggle at the BO
Capeshit bros, it may actually be over.

You know the casting was bad when Supergirl, who had like a minute of screentime, is getting all the love and attention instead.

>>150053784 (OP)
The FF are aspirational figures and they cast the least aspirational people they could find because women prefer “relatable”

>>150054154
They played well their roles desu

>>150054189
>I can't masturbate to the people on screen

>>150053784 (OP)
The Fantastic 4 looked like shit. What was Kevin thinking hiring the ugliest people alive. He should just retire.

>>150054227
Why did women fail to show up for FF?

>>150053784 (OP)
It was FUCKING BORING
The team didn't do shit but prepare for a tepid battle with Galactus
Superheroes need ACTION

I wanted to fuck everyone in Superman. Yes. Even them.

>>150054295
That anon is making an assumption projecting his frustration.

>>150054388
Not what I asked. Why did women fail to show up for FF? Could it be women want to masturbate too?

>>150054413
If we have to make assumptions (which is that, since I have no way of knowing what an entire gender thinks), there isn't much interest in the genre itself. As capeshit dies down, it loses appeal towards general audiences, and it's returning to it's preexisting fanbase.

>>150054464
The preexisting fanbase... that does not care for FF? Don't think so, sis.

>>150054464
>there isn't much interest in the genre itself
or maybe women don't want to stare at some bogged limey for an hour.

>>150054364
You want to fuck the squirrel?

>>150053784 (OP)
I liked both although I think Superman was better. But I think the real problem apart from the FF films just being cursed is that Supes was a reboot and FF absolutely should have been but instead we knew going in that this is just gonna get rolled into the moribund MCU that people have been getting sick of for a while now. I think if you pitched it as the start of a new, fresh MCU it would have done better without changing a single thing about the actual movie.

>>150053784 (OP)
Pascal doesn’t fit Reed which turned off actual FF fans, he’s also divisive which turned off MAGA types.

Kirby isn’t hot, in fact she’s kinda tough to look at, and doesn’t fit Sue. Again this turns off actual FF fans and CHUDs who wnt some eye candy.

It’s also woke. There is no debating this. Silver surfer is actually his wife, Sue is the strongest of the FF, she doesn’t take her husbands name, Reed the WASPiest dude ever is played by a Hispanic dude. This turns people off.

Simple as really. Debating this by shitting on the type of people it turns off only proves me more right.

>>150053784 (OP)
F4 haven't been popular since the 60s

>>150055935
cant wait to hear this cope again when mcu x-men flops

>>150056003
First class and days of future past did pretty well, every Deadpool movie too. Apocalypse and Dark phoniex were boring movies, so as long as they cast decently and the movie is decent, they should make 500M pretty easy

>>150053784 (OP)
I didn't see either, I will see Superman later, but through sheer osmosis, I managed to learn so much about Superman and the gist of it's plot and big moments.

I have no fucking idea what happens in F4 outside of that black hole chase because no one talks about it.

>>150053862

Yeah, it's a less popular Marvel property, the genre in general isn't as big as it was pre-Endgame, and Disney as a studio lost its ability to make a film that isn't ludicrously expensive well over a decade ago to the point that they desperately need to fire a bunch of executives.

Pretty much everything the main studio makes these days has ridiculous budgets; a Haunted Mansion film shouldn't have a $150 million budget and a Fantastic Four film shouldn't have cost $200 million.

Especially when it's a franchise that has a tracj record of basically breaking even and that's with budgets that are like two-thirds of First Steps. It's like making a Lone Ranger film that was so expensive that it needed to set a box office record for the Western genre just to break even.

By the time all is said and done, with home video sales, this is going to be the most successful FF4 film even adjusted for inflation but it's still going to just break even at the box office.

>>150055935

I started to say the '80s but that was actually more Ben being popular than the group.

>>150053784 (OP)
>No Israel Palestine hinted ref
also Ms. Fantastic is white woman. If she was a black woman it would be all over the god damn place about how white supremacy made the movie fail.

>>150055867
>Sue is the strongest of the FF
Anon she's been since the 70's

>>150056305
Ben was always the most popular, Hulk was created specifically because they wanted to replicate the "beloved monster" aspect of Ben.
While I do wish Ben got more screentime, I kind of get why they emphasized the other three members in the film, given how unlike Ben, they haven't shared much of the spotlight.

>China hates American superhero movies now.
>Post-COVID box office down.
>People complaining about Pedro online.
>No momentum as the MCU has fizzled out.
>Fans just wait for Disney+ streaming.
>Film is perfectly alright but not amazing.
>Poor word of mouth.
>Boring marketing campaign.
>Film is too expensive.

>>150056305
Problem with FF is that it's an inevitably CGI heavy film, specially when one of the main characters is a guy made of rocks. More so if in the future they want to show something like the Negative Zone or other worlds the FF visit in the comics, it's a property that will require heavy VFX (in fact the reason they went for Pascal was to keep the budget lower, since he's mainly a TV actor).

For that and artistic reasons too, I do think FF would work better as an animated film.

>normies finally starting to get bored of capeshit
>i know, let's do another reboot of a capeshit IP notorious for having already been made into shitty films like three separate times

>>150056495
The Incredibles was just the FF. Feasibly you could make a good FF movie.

>>150056453
Yeah, those are the reasons. Best reply to the thread, you summed it all up.

>>150056502
what the incredibles took from FF is practically incidental to what made the incredibles (2004) such a kino film. FF is just boring to anyone who didn't grow up reading the comics

>>150053832
FF managed to get better legs during the last two weeks. If Disney wasn't retarded and released it a month or so after Superman, both films could've benefited and gotten some 50 to 100 mill more, specially since there's a drought of tentpole films until September.

>>150056363
I love how people on /co/ will rush to correct someone without actually without actually knowing source material. In the 70's she was still called Invisible Girl, she didn't get the power upgrade and name change until Byrne took over in the 80's

>>150056570
She was already mentioned to be the most powerful shortly after the separation arc in the mid 70's.

>>150056531
*November

>>150054413
>Could it be women want to masturbate too?

Anecdotally Pedo Pascal's a dude women schlick to.

>>150056699
>Anecdotally Pedo Pascal's a dude women schlick to.
This is actually a lie. A lot of the people who like Pedro are gays because he plays up that shit. The whole zaddy thing. It is an inflated bubble. Women aren't that interested in him. There are many such cases of this where it seems like it is women but it is the gays.

>>150056621
Is something coming before Wicked 2?

>>150056867
>the gays giving a shit about pedro pascal when jonathan bailey is the direct competition
lol

>>150053784 (OP)
Superman is an inherently more iconic character. Marvel fatigue is absolutely a thing. Also, not only were the expectations low for FF, what with people fearing Gay Johnny, Girlboss Sue, and Pedro Pascal in general, but I don't see people talking about a single iconic thing in the movie in the way I see people talking about Drunk Supergirl, Guy Gardner, or Mr. Terrific.

>>150055652
Yes.

>>150055935
Iron Man wasn't popular in 2008.

>>150059372

I think Iron Man actually benefited a bit from the reaction to X-Men: The Last Stand, Rise of the Silver Surfer, and Spider-Man 3 along with films like Ghost Rider, Daredevil, and Hulk. By that point, there was a lot of interest in seeing how Marvel would handle their own properties especially since Iron Man hadn't been done yet.

>>150056867
>A lot of the people who like Pedro are gays
Actually it's troons and what ever the antonym of TERFs is because he had a hissyfit over Rowling for some reason.
Guess they didn't return the favor by watching the movie.

>>150056531
Define "better".

>>150059664
pretty sure he has a trans sibling, so obviously he's going to beef with the terfs. being surprised by this is like being surprised that dick cheney supported gay marriage while being a conservative.

>>150053832
>Superman was a flop too
lol
Is this how mousecucks are coping?

>>150059696
It's Disney shills, Snydercult, and Youtube outrage addicts trying to claim Superman was a flop

>>150059696
It's a fact that it didn't make the budget + marketing spend back
Was also put on pvod 10 days early

Superman was just more interesting film, also the whole snyderbro hating it is stretching the conversation even further. F4 in other hand was just... ok. There's nothing bad about it, but not really anything worth discussing either. It was kinda like those first MCU movies like Thor 1. It just kinda exists.

>>150053784 (OP)
I dunno.

>>150059719
>source?
>i made it up

>>150059719
lol no it isn't

>>150056453
>Film is perfectly alright
It's really not

>>150053784 (OP)
Number 4 is bad luck in a lot of Asian cultures

>>150059550
Iron Man was such a huge success at the time partly because no one expected it to be good. I knew who he was from the cartoon, but my normie friends had no idea who he is. And in the comics he was Thor-cloning Hitler at the time.

>>150059725
Source is thehollywoodreporter saying advertising for Superman is over 200 million

>>150059740
Yes it was, the original release date was going to be this week. It got moved up because Superman isn't making enough money in theaters.

>>150059918
Wrong

>>150060008
That's the excuse, Superman isn't on HBO Max and has largely nothing to do with Peacemaker outside of sharing a few character

>>150057952
Nothing big really

>>150059670
Stabilized while dropping less than 50% from last week

>>150059722
What do you mean there's nothing bad about it? There's a long thing of bad things with it.
The cast is old, ugly and uncharismatic. The power usage is boring and not creative at all. Heck, Reed barely stretches a couple of times and it so little. The plot is dumb and the movie feels short. As if someone shaved off some very important 30 minutes. And only Sue ever does anything.

>>150060008
I don't see why that's a reason. Peacemaker appears in a background interview in the movie, so he's not relevant at all.

>>150060527
>The cast is old, ugly and uncharismatic
The first two are not something that impacts the film's quality and more of a subjective appreciation. Third can be debatable.

>>150060536
Iirc Gunn said he tried to keep the film in theaters longer so perhaps it was WB's desicion. Again, I'll assume they have to make money off it coming to digital so soon, otherwise it makes it seem like they hate money.

>>150054332
I could excuse a lack of action if it made up for it with some decent character drama but the movie lacks even that. The family is basically always on the same page and the entire world loves them after a single halfassed speech. There's a serious lack of conflict.

>>150060605
>and the entire world loves them after a single halfassed speech
That did have an intention to

I’m amazed it didn’t do at least a little better thanks to there being nothing else in August. K-pop demon hunters getting a theatrical release did better than almost any other movie this month. Weapons and Freakier Friday seem like the only other big movies out right now.

>>150061022
Weapons took out FF's Imax screenings, which are a big part of their week to week basis. After that the film has had a more stable BO and final projecctions have gotten up from the second week. Again, it could've done better had it been released in a ess crowded period, but Disney got greedy thinking people had the same consumer habits as during Phase 3.
There was a similar phenomenon in June 2023 when a shitload of lockbusters came out consecutively and almost all lost money because of it.

>>150053784 (OP)
It’s crazy how year of self sabotaging and an IP that has always been unpopular didn’t work out
I don’t think Marvel will ever come close to hitting their old levels of success again without nostalgia slop piles

>>150061078
Even if they didn't release four straight years of mostly garbage, interest would inevitably fall down regardless. It's just the natural cycle for big genres.

People find glorified classic Americana straight up offensive now, and that was FF4's whole thing.

>>150061124
Weirdest reaction I saw of the film was debaitng if it was pro-life propaganda or not.
Americans can't resist to make it all into part of a culture war.

>>150053832
The cry of the defeated Marvel fag.

>>150061112
There was still plenty of interest left in the MCU after Endgame. Those chose to flood the market with abject shit and make one of the worst tools in all of fictional writing into their main focal point

>>150061134
lol it was literally about saving a BORN baby. Why do people think everything has the be allegory and can't represent something directly?

>>150061124
People just don’t give a shit about superheroes anymore cuz Marvel poisoned the well
I’d rather just watch TikTok than go see another MCU flick

>>150061124
This. Even implying a past version of America was great makes people think you're alluding to right leaning platitudes, even if it's completely incidental.

>>150061149
No one denies it went to shit, and that was what made audience lose interest. But I do wonder if people would've moved away anyways, there's only so much time yo can have audiences attention in a certain type of film.

>>150053784 (OP)
Honestly, it's clear to me that Hollywood is just collapsing in general. These movies did comparatively well, but the economic model is unsustainable. People don't go to the movies anymore. People don't WANT to go to the movies anymore.
Rather than compare box office numbers to historical numbers, it's better to compare them to other movies. They're doing okay, considering, but the entire industry is going to die soon.
Asking why they're failing is like asking why the big fish are dying in a tiny, poisonous pond. It's fucking retarded. The problem is that the budgets are still fucking enormous even though the total amount of market share is rapidly contracting.
Hollywood execs and journalists are too greedy and retarded to accept that fact though, so they'll just attempt to use social engineering to berate people about how they're racist or something. That's all they know how to do to fix problems.

>>150061150
Culture war brainrot. It's now as bad everywhere as it's been here for years.

>>150061184
I think Covid would have hurt them regardless, but they could still be hitting 800M consistently if they hadn’t gone down the path they chose
Making the multiverse your central focus and holding the middle finger up to young male audiences got them where they are today

>>150055867
Sue has always been the strongest. The problem isn't that, but how the movie shows her do everything and the rest nothing.
This is as if we made a Justice League movie and Superman did everything while everybody else just sat back and watched. Like, ?????? Why are they in the movie too?

>>150061250
>This is as if we made a Justice League movie and Superman did everything while everybody else just sat back and watched
That basically was JL. They were losing against Steppenwolf until he showed up, then just sat back as he proceeded to do literally everything better than the rest of them

>>150061215
I think the healthier route would've been to diversify the type of films you can make inside the superherp genre. And not in the way MCU stans say "Winter Soldier was a thriller, Shang-Chi was a martial arts... bla bla bla. Those films might tease playing with genre, but ultimately fall into it's main conventions regardless. That's why I hope the DCU follows with their word on making all types off films; Clayface is being described as horror through and through, which sounds interesting at the very least.

>>150061250
I'd say that's a bit reductionist. Her giving the heaviest blow during the final fight doesn't take away from what the guys do during that same part nor the rest of the film, where they're never humilliated or diminished.

>>150060574
That's some copium addiction, anon.

>>150061282
Not an argument

>>150061264
I think they should have chosen to make them more like movies based off PKD books like Blade Runner and Total Recall.
Adam Warlock is basically a fucking replicant. It’s way more fascinating and subtle than just shoving the multiverse in everything

>>150061263
Yes, but imagine all movie long instead of the climax of the third arc. I don't mind a Deus ex Machina showing up at the very end if the others worked to make that happen. But being there from the start while nobody else does anything?
>>150061275
Well, okay. Johnny did linguist science and convinced the short haired woman to kill herself.
Ben did uhhh run into some columns to collapse a building somehow.
Reed wrote a 10 characters equation on a black board and came up with a teleporting theory to teleport the entire planet away instead of the obvious easier solution of teleporting only Galactus.
And Sue? Well Sue got into politics and achieved world peace, she calmed the masses when impending global doom was around the corner, convinced them that the lives of the few matter just as much as the lives of the many (lmao good luck with that one in real life), and then she soloed Galactus.

Oh yeah anon, everybody did something! But it's a bit reductionist to say everybody did something, when Sue alone did 90% of things.

>>150061296
Neither was yours a counterargument. So practice what you preach.

>>150053832
Budget for Superman was $225M and it earned $600M, even if you double the budget for marketing it still succeeded.

>>150060583
It's flopping on digital too.

>>150054227
>I can't masturbate to the people on screen
Human beings like beautiful people, freak. Get over it.

>>150053784 (OP)
Both it and Superman looked like they were gonna be fresh, fun superhero movies. Superman was, Fantastic Four was shockingly boring, I dont think it gets nearly as much hate as it deserves

>>150056523
>FF is just boring to anyone who didn't grow up reading the comics
It's just too geeky for the global audience. Shit gives non-dorks the ick.

>>150061644
It's prefer it to stay like that desu. Keeps the normies out while not losing the charm.

>>150061619
You know why they mean it coombrain

>>150061623
Might come as a shocker man but opinions are allowed to differ

>>150061607
How do you know

>>150054364
the monkeys?

>>150062061
He meant the robots

>>150053784 (OP)
People are tired of Marvels bullshit, and I'm not talking about quality, I'm talking about the risk that if you get invested in anything you will need to either follow a completely diferent movie by another director or some boring ass series on Disney+. Superman was the fresh start of something sans a John Cena cameo, and I'm sure they will mess everything up eventually. But in FF's case, how can i be invested on them building up a villain that is now just a loophole for Robert Downey Jr. to appear again?
It's funny that capeshit comics and movies have the exact same issue. No one wants to read a Superman comic just to be bombard by "As seen in Suicide Squad 689 to 989", "As seen in Johm Constantine X Captain Carrot Christmas special", "This fuckead right there was introduced in "Already Cancelled issue 2" please check up"

>>150062459
>But in FF's case, how can i be invested on them building up a villain that is now just a loophole for Robert Downey Jr. to appear again?
Funniest part is they didn't built it up at all

It's really funny that snyder fags want people to see a 600 million dollar box office and glowing reviews as a flop

>>150062459
This is all cope. No one thinks about that shit this hard.

F4 did mediocre because it was a mid movie with bad word of mouth starring characters most people don't care about.

>>150061343
Maybe it's because more time and importance is placed on it, but Johnny figuring out an alien language and managing to speak to Silver Surfer seems like a bigger deal than Sue solving world piece and calming everyone down, which is glazed over really fast.

>>150061190
The market share is only retracting in America
China and India and SEA are still growing markets

>>150062459
It was always an issue in comics. At least it was something I complained about since I was a kid and kept having people agree with me. But they felt it boosted sales and maybe it did, so they went the route of big events that fucked with dozens of titles so you had to read them to find out (or quit the title, which happened to a lot of those titles)

>>150053832
Not a flop. It's the only comic book movie to gross $600 million this year, on a budget roughly as big as Fantastic 4's.

>>150062673
>B-but the inflation!!!

>>150054364
you wanna fuck the indian?

>>150054295
Women stopped showing up to the MCU in numbers when it stopped being the cool popular thing normies were into. So about 2022. We're back to just nerds going to comic book movies now except for the really popular characters normies still like, such as Spider-Man or Deadpool.

>>150061343
Reed was the one who decided to establish contact with Galactus, and as shown by the film itself the teleporting plan would've worked if SS didn't intervene (besides the fact that he's the character the film delves most into), and part of why the film's reality is an utopía Is due to his advances in science and tech. Johnny was literally the ace in the resolution by succesfull translation SS' langauge and guilt tripping her into revolting against Galactus. Without his part, they would've lost. And Sue being the diplomat is part of the characters, so it's logical she'd be succesful at that (and even talking purely about power stuff, Galactus manages to escape the portal anyways, and the push wasn't an easy feat by her getting killed).Ben does get the short end of the stick tho.

>>150058674
i have seen more drunk supergirl fanart in the past month than discussion of F4 in general.

>>150063002
This is something that's often left aside. The people who were already fans are the only ones showing up, what's been lost is casual audiences. We're solely going back to pre MCU numbers.

>>150061355
We can delve into it

>>150056045
Until Dark Phoenix and New Mutants happened, First Class was the 2nd lowest performing movie of the franchise, while DoFP only did as well as it did because it got released in China and did well there. Without China, it would've been a lot closer to the box office the earlier movies made. Also, by the time of Apocalypse the problem wasn't just the movie itself not being good, there was also the wider issue of audiences and critics complaining about the repetitive storylines of X-Men movies because they couldn't move away from the mutant metaphor and the Xavier vs Magneto conflict. A reboot probably needs to think outside the box and do something very different, especially in an era where "ackshually it's about minorities" is just going to turn off around half the potential audience.

Deadpool being more popular with audiences than X-Men or Wolverine was unexpected thoughbeit, and embarrassing for a brand that people keep saying is supposed to be one of Marvel's main 2 brands.

>>150063097
>"ackshually it's about minorities"
I do wonder if they'll coward and try to reduce the metaphor. Altough given they gave the film to the director of Thunderbolts, perhaps they're still planning on going there, specially since from what we know, they're going for a teenage angle.

>>150062738
I wish they weren't.

>>150063300
Why do you pray on the fall of your fellow man anon

>>150063377
Honest answer?
It's not a race thing; I'm on 4chan and would just admit it if it were.
I just think their cultures are so profoundly immoral and against my own personal ideals that I just don't want them to succeed on that basis. I get that individual Chinese people can be decent, for example, but the country is a totalitarian communist dictatorship. I mean, hello? They don't respect basic human rights. I don't want that mode of existence to rule humanity, so I DEFINITELY don't want them getting funded by American money, directly or even indirectly. That's why I outright refuse to watch Chinese media, play Chinese games, any of it.
I wish their country would outright collapse.
Indians are... Well, I am just racist against Indians. They're just actually fucking disgusting, I don't honestly think that even warrants going into detail about. Everyone knows they're fucking gross. SEA in a broader sense, like Vietnam, etc, I don't care about, positive or negative. S. Koreans are also a disgusting culture, which I hate, because, again, no respect for basic human dignity; they live in a corporatist oligarchy that may as well have a fucking caste system based on whether or not you're wealthy enough to buy your way into a job at Samsung.
Europe and America aren't perfect as a sphere of influence, we have oligarchy bullshit too, but it's not nearly as bad as these other shitstain countries, and at least I have the right to COMPLAIN about it here. When I compare how backwards and disgusting other places are, I know for an absolute certainty whose values I prefer to lead world culture.

>>150056472
The practical Ben in the Fox movies was pretty good

>>150061250
>>150056363

>Sue has always been the strongest
No, she hasn’t. I’m genuinely so sick of people who don’t actually read comics saying this over and over and over.

>>150063570
Yeah, but I doubt that they've go for it nowadays. Even on It's day, it was Chiklis who insisted to wear the costume, not the studio, and I doubt many actors would be that willing.

>>150063602
The response specifically said since the 70's, while Byrne's run being the one to definitively set it in stone.

>>150062042
Cuck of the Year contender

>>150053784 (OP)
Granted I haven't watched a movie in like 15 years but of course a F4 movie flopped
Fantastic 4 are shit they were never cool. Mr Fantastic isn't cool, the Thing isn't cool
Superman is lame too but at least you can flying and super punching
though they put the fucking dog in it holy shit they don't know what the fuck to do anymore
When I was a child I liked Spiderman, Venom, Carnage, Spawn, the Hulk
that was the cool shit
these movies are about getting 30 something soiredditors to experience nostalgia of their childhood so they clap hysterically and nobody has nostalgia about Mr Fantastic fucking LOL these execs are so fucking out of touch

>>150053784 (OP)
Because Reed can't stretch himself enough to rescue a kitten from a tree without crying out in agony and ripping his costume from the strain.

>>150053832
>Supes25
>A flop
I see someone just got a new tank of copium to huff. You know that KPDH is also technically korean capeshit, had an even smaller budget, came out 2 weeks earlier, and still managed to have 9 weeks of record breaking numbers. Even it's two fucking day limited theater run sold out at almost every location. It's soundtrack is also topping charts with three different songs at the same time. FF got btfo'd by a 24fps memebait musical that had less plot than a hair on your mother's ass.

Fucking GREEN LANTERN like who the fuck is Green Lantern fucking LMAO he fucking controls green ecoplasm with his ring
fucking captain planet tier shit
they don't have any taste or understanding that only giga nerds would buy a company's shit wholesale, but these suits want to appeal to normies and at the same time they just try to recycle this decrepit autistic shit but they make one gay or black so it's modern now. they're so out of touch it's insane

>>150060536
>>150060206
A fourth of the first ep of season 2 is dedicated to Hawkgirl & GL. They reshot the JL cameo from S1 to be the JG, and have it once again have Hawkgirl & GL do the dialogue and be in focus for that.

>>150063749
Oh hi Todd

>>150063624
Even with Byrne it’s hardly consistent and most of the runs in between that and Hickman ignored it for the most part. I want to say it was either the Claremont/lobdell run or the Pacheco run where she was literally training to become stronger and a better fighter to earn a power up but that’s mostly forgotten.

For most of their history all four have been pretty balanced with emotional outbursts or random plot points propelling them to moments of outsized performance.

>>150064244
I remember Claremont/Pacheco had her training with Iron Fist, but that was mostly to learn personal defense.
The thing with Sue as the most powerful is that, while stated, it hasn't always been shown, at least not until more recent runs (North displays her abilities as if she's a green lantern at this point), coupled with the fact that Sue is the FF member with the least amount of stories centered around her.

>>150053784 (OP)
>Multiverse shit gives the creators the opportunity to introduce the FF completely separated from the other heroes and in the 60's where their aesthetics fit the best
>No Origin Story
>No Doom (even as an Iron Man variant they had the obligation of using him)
>Moleman and the underworld was butchered
>We start their story with Galactus and Franklin, what could easily be the final movie of a trilogy
>Thing didn't do shit
>Reed barely stretched
>Sue's big moment lacked impact
>Johnny's actor was not good looking enough for the role

I didn't even dislike the movie, the space part was great. But if they don't care about these characters outside of just making sure they introduce all the big names in the MCU why should the audience? What difference does it make seeing these characters for the first time here or in Doomsday?

>>150064333
I appreciated how self-contained it was, but specially after the Thunderbolts pcs, I guess people expected a more direct connection to Doomsday. The timing was a fuck up on the studio's part, given how this film was well into development when Doomsday was first concieved (keep in mind, that whole movie was a last minute replacement for Kang Dynasty, despite Feige stating otherwise).

>>150062061
>>150062120
Yes and yes.

>>150062989
...maybe not everyone...

>>150055867
Maga just hates on any strong man whose success comes from his own talents. If youre not some bitchy nepo baby then they feel threatened by your proximity to them. So yeah I understand why Pascal frightened them.

>>150056531
Doing "better" weeks later is when the theater takes more of the cut anyways.

>>150061124
Classic American progressivism and pragmatism is always popular, what are you talking about? Who is getting offended by our victories over the British Empire, Confederate Slavers & Nazi Germany? Maybe I'm getting old and now it's uncool to defend liberty against tyranny but I doubt it, that's the American way of life.

>>150053832
People didn't go to Superman because they like the character. They went because it was a James Gunn movie.

>>150064475
I've never understood how the theater cuts work. Do they depend on the specific theater chain and/or format the film is exhibited on?

>>150063002
>Women stopped showing up to the MCU in numbers when it stopped being the cool popular thing normies were into
By that logic normies stopped going when women stopped going. But really you're being an illogical jackass. What you're describing is a general trend of people checking out of Marvel due to fatigue, then you make a category error and fail to account for women as part of that group.

>>150064519
The aesthetic factor plays a big part. Despite the film depicting a 60's NY where segregation doesn't exist and the world is pretty much utopic, some people still complained over the movie supposedly promoting conservatism (it doesn't)

>>150064568
What people? I literally never once heard that at all. Was it just some pushed online narrative? Because nobody was saying anything like that irl. Mostly it was thinking Reed and Sue were hot. I think this is another digital illusion if its anything beyond a rumor at all, because I've never caught a whiff it in the real world.

>>150064599
Online discussion

>>150064521
Only upper-class American liberals like Superman and mostly for sticking it to the chuds. It was the chuds's fault for calling it superwoke before the movie was released

FF had very little action, and felt more like a pulpy sci-fi adventure serial with modern feminist messaging instead of old fashioned machismo. Case in point: the live birth scene, which lasted way too long. Doubt I'll ever rewatch it, find it hard to even recommend to people cause it's so dull and there's no real cool characters in it. They even managed to make the Silver Surfer lame and gay.

>>150064619
I wipe my ass with online discussion, thats just corporations talking to brand managers about their bot followers while some humans here and there scurry away into hidden warrens before their memes are compromised.

>>150064632
Fucking says who? My theater was packed and applauded and we're all working class. Granted democratic socialism is big here vs centrist liberalism but even so you're out of touch.

>>150064685
>and felt more like a pulpy sci-fi adventure serial with modern feminist messaging instead of old fashioned machismo
I fail to see how that's the case

>>150064739
I guess you're blind, then.

>>150064706
Given how Hoult's Lex can easily be interpreted as a Musk analogue I don't think upper class people would be too content with the film.

>>150064752
I'd like to know what leads you to that conclusion, given the film doesn't delve into gender roles un any real capacity or commentary (unless you count women doing anything in the plot).

>>150059787
It was. I already know every piece of criticism about characterisation, Pedro, Galactus, and everything else. I get it. But it was quite alright. And if anything, that was probably more of a negative, that it didn't do more and better a good film. Or that it didn't do less and better a trainwreck.

>>150064764
Aw dude they hated it, that freak midget Ben Shapiro whined about it and so did that pedophile Matt Walsh iirc. And like of course they hated it, it was about a man who continually decides to be strong and good and how that protection inspires others around him to greatness. His enemy is a psychologically weak power junkie who can't even help himself. Of course they hated it. Now me I'm a simple red blooded American, I see Superman punching a fascist and boobs bounce in slow motion and I clap. Thats my culture. The elites' culture, I don't know, they don't even like to wait for women to develop full boobs before they do anything with them so who knows?

>>150064948
>that freak midget Ben Shapiro whined about it
I do know how people clowned on him saying Boravia reminded him of Israel lmao

>>150064974
What Shapiro wants is a movie about a charismatic and fuckable man (despite his height!) whose power is his own cold hard intellect & cash; triumphing over the savage hordes of Muslims, US government and domestic backstabbers. Except he already got it, its called Iron Man 1 and he's been bored of that toy for ages now because it'll never be enough to occupy his degenerating mind. Permanent dissatisfaction.

>>150053832
No it wasn't.

>>150053784 (OP)
Capeshit fatigue
+
Pedro fatigue
=
Box office bombs

>>150065322
>Pedro fatigue
Idc about celebrities but I genuinely don't think that's really a factor. The only other thing the guy had were two indie films, and I don't think general audiences care about those or even saw them. Internet film communities are other thing but those are mostly chronically online.

>>150065383
I think he was touted as the new big thing since the mandalorian or something like that? I feel I've heard more people bringing him up than him being in any movie.

>>150065439
Mando hit it big yeah, but he was still mostly a TV actor (which is why they went for him to play Reed, given they wouldn't have to pay him as much as a movie star). And in the films he has done, he's usually a supporting actor. FF was his first lead, and even then as party of an ensamble piece.

>>150056305
>more Ben being popular than the group
is that even possible? Ben is like the simplest most replaceable member of the team

>>150056453
good summary but you missed the fact that it came 2 weeks after Superman which arguably had more hype and excitement and Jurassic World was a big threat too.

>>150065532
he's the most unique looking and he's got a cool personality

>>150062050
FlixPatrol.

>>150064556
>By that logic normies stopped going when women stopped going.
IE dudes stopped taking their girls to see them for their dates.

>>150065383
yeah I think Pedro fatigue is mostly just a thing about the chronically online and those who parrot their opinions. and even among the chronically online you gotta separate all the fangirls and stan armies, and you'll realize it's not actually a lot of people that hate Pedro Pascal, they're just really loud and obnoxious about it. we've had actors who suddenly show up in multiple projects for decades now, Pedro is hardly a new phenomenon

>>150065532
That's why. Simple means accessible and easy to understand. It means universal appeal

>>150065532
Ben was the most popular Marvel character after Spidey for a while, and his popularity is what inspired them to create the Hulk. He's also the only FF member to have multiple solo series.

>>150063097
>because it got released in China and did well there
and that doesn't apply to most capestuff from the 'golden age'?
Also, from my experience, a lot of complaints boiled down to 'I wanna have them in the MCU!'.
Through I do agree that they need to not overdo 'The Metaphor'

>>150053784 (OP)
Because only $2 Billion actually exists in total on the planet, and it keeps being passed between films.

>>150065579
>>150065615
yeah but I find it hard that he can be more popular on his own as opposed to the team together going on cosmic adventures
>>150065622
really? that's interesting to hear, I didn't know about the multiple solo series. did none of the other three get many? what are Ben's solo comics even about?

>>150065712
did none of the other three get many?
Johnny has gotten like three, Sue had one around the time of their post SW return, Reed has had none. Ben helped Marvel Two-In-One and ram for over a hundred issues, and has had some other four volumen of his own title.
They're mostly Ben interacting and teaming up with the wider MU, or related to his street upbringing. Unlike the other there, Ben wasn't born into a rich life and had a challenging upbringing, that alongside his charming personality make him far easier for readers to relate to than either Reed, Sue or Johnny.

>>150053784 (OP)
it was the fans fault, they don't understand the view of the director.

>>150053784 (OP)
>ugly cast
>no name cast
>believed that the redditards who wanted their heckin wholesome chungus non-problematic 60s Jetsons were actually speaking for the core audience
>no action at all
>forgettable characters
>mangled script
>no good drama
>entirely boring villains
>does nothing to set up Doomsday
>RDJ didn't even bother to film a cameo for it
You want me to keep going? It's basically 4 geriatric faggots in sweaters being anxious about their baby until the woman saves the day with the power of girlbossing (two times). It's entirely uncool and coolness is what sells CBMs.

They needed a better cast, a better script, a better everything.

>>150065563
Many are oblivious to this part. For once, we're not at a point where releasing two films of the same genre so close to each other can work, and secondly, Supermanhad the benefit of coming out first and being, well, Superman. You can complain he got derailed during th last couple of decades but he's still one of the main faces of the genre

>>150065939
Jake Gyllenhaal as Reed is just as terrible as Pedro Pascal, maybe even worse because on top of that he's expensive

>>150065964
yeah, the same thing happened in 2023 when Spider-Verse, Flash, Transformers, and Indiana Jones all coming out in the same month meant they'd inevitably suffer, with Spider-Verse winning by a wide margin by being first while the other three got hit pretty hard (admittedly Flash was already doomed)

>>150065712
Johnny was actually the first to get his own solo comic feature. Stan Lee clearly thought he would be the breakout character, being a teen superhero with the code name of another hero and cool looking powers.

Eventually the Thing was added to the feature as a co-star because Johnny couldn’t carry it on his own and it was Ben who had clearly emerged as the most popular FF member, thanks to his combination of strength, snarky sarcasm, pathos/self-pity and the best superhero catchphrase in years. The other three were much more conventional characters.

>>150066064
You'd think after a notoriously abysmal summer month as that execs would learn to space their films better but hey they wouldn't be Hollywood execs if they weren't retarded

>>150066521
Flame brain couldn't catch up with the Idol O' Millions

>>150065563
>good summary but you missed the fact that it came 2 weeks after Superman
I thoguht that was a given because of the topic of the thread

>>150064305
North is also the same faggot who decided to call her storm rather than Richards.

>coupled with the fact that Sue is the FF member with the least amount of stories centered around her.
I gotta disagree here. She had many issues in which she was the star in the Byrne era, defalco era, simonson era and then more and more as time went on.

If anyone Johnny has had the least focus.

>>150053832
FPBP.
Didn’t even crack a billion. When Man of Steel didn’t crack a billion everyone was screaming about how it was a flop.
This Superman movie made 20 million less than Man of Steel even ignoring the inflation from the past 10 years.

>>150053832
>>150067183
>t.

>>150067075
Nice observation on Sue taking more prominence during certain eras, altough the number of stories individually could be looked at too. Tho I disagree with Simonson, I don't recall Sue having a lot of prominence there. If anything I'd say Sharon Ventura had a more important role.

>>150066521
Remember also, the original idea of the Thing, and the way he was originally written, was as a nasty guy who could turn evil at any moment. The reason he was the ugly one is that he was supposed to be the resident jerk, and ugly = bad.

When he was retooled into a nice guy he became a different kind of superhero, being ugly and kind of a reader surrogate who sometimes made fun of superhero conventions like Reed’s science exposition speeches.

>>150067295
Yuck. I can smell that picture.

>>150067075
Johnny become the punching bag of the team lately.
If Spiderman fans think that their hero Is the number one enemy of the authors they should watch how Johnny is treated in the latest stories.

>>150053784 (OP)
I've been a Marvelfag my entire life and i'm struggling to care enough to watch this. The cast is just so bland and female Surfer annoys me.

>>150064333
>No Doom (even as an Iron Man variant they had the obligation of using him)
>obligation of using him
Given that every previous FF movie had used him, using a different villain for once was actually a sensible move if they at least wanted to shoot for better results than the earlier movies. But Doomsday being the next 'big' MCU movie carries with it the expectation that movies are going to build to him, I guess.

>>150064556
Most women (and most men) ARE normies. Most nerds are male. When normies started checking out of the MCU, they lost most of the female audience. This isn't rocket science, not sure why you're being so hostile about it.

>>150065939
>believed that the redditards
That they actually seem to pay attention to Reddit, Twitter and comics Youtubers and the stupid things those retards want has been terrible for comics and comics movies.

>>150053784 (OP)
normal people watched the movie once while gunncultists rewatched that dogshit film multiple times.

>>150053784 (OP)
The Chinese already delivered a better version of the F4 months prior.

>>150069584
Marvel should just outsource all their games to Japan and China from now on.

>>150069425
>But Doomsday being the next 'big' MCU movie carries with it the expectation that movies are going to build to him, I guess.

Yeah I was taking this into account. I'd not have minded if it was an origin story with another FF villain desu but it wasn't that either

>>150069584
You only think that cause you want to fuck Sue.

>>150069425
>using a different villain for once
>galactus
And don’t give me that
>b-b-but they did it right this time!

>>150053784 (OP)
Sue is ugly and Reed is a Hispanic dude. It’s that simple. I’m so sick of people acting like that has nothing to do with it.

Kirby is tough to look at and appears 5-6 years older than she is, and she’s not young to begin with. Pascal looks like he’s 55 years old and isn’t the correct race. To say nothing of his dirty sanchez mustache as if you rub it in anyone’s face that he’s Hispanic.

>>150070486
To be fair, Cloud Galactus shows up for a few minutes of a movie which has Doom as the main villain for most of it's runtime. An FF villain that hasn't been done before at all would be preferable, but giving Galactus a do-over is less egregious and unnecessary than yet another FF movie with Doom as the main villain.

>>150055867
>It’s also woke. There is no debating this
So are Superman, yet...

>>150070756
Honestly not nearly as woke and the cast is mostly fuckable. Killing Israeli stand-ins is based.

>>150064333
>the space part was great
the problem is the rest of the movie was as exciting as watching paint dry

>>150053784 (OP)
Because the domestic market buying into the hope meme like if they were the ones getting bombed. Both were pretty average.