Thread 150057122

Wouldn’t it have made more sense for Kalibak to be the villain for Justice League instead of Steppenwolf?

>>150057122 (OP)
If you're gonna do it just do Darkseid. Justice League War was half decent and with more time to expand on it could have been more.

I'm baffled by a lot of Zack Snyder's creative decisions, especially since Gunn has shown us that it's actually not that hard to make a decent Superman movie.

>>150057122 (OP)
Kalibak is best for a New Gods movie, since his whole thing is about being jealous of his father's bastard.
Also, they needed someone that could get his head cut by WW without people voicing their disapproval.

>>150057122 (OP)
I remember feeling bad for the dude.

>>150057122 (OP)
It should have been no one related to Apokolips. You cannot blow that lore too early. Mongul, Weapons Master or Starro (not Gunn's shitty meme version) would have sufficed

>>150057272
>since his whole thing is about being jealous of his father's bastard.
Only the current copy!Kalibak, the original died without knowing that he was Darkseid's bastard.

>>150057122 (OP)
This design is pure visual noise, the hell was Snyder thinking? Michael Bay's Transformers are easier on the eyes than this.

>>150057272
You could just not have the villain be killed by the heroes but driven back behind the portal. Then killed by Darkseid for failing.

>>150057122 (OP)
Yeah everyone said this at the time since Kalibak is known for being a daddy pleasing son trying to prove himself.

My question is how the fuck did Darkseif forget where Earth was?

>>150057122 (OP)
>Made of staples

If I might give the film ONE compliment, I did think Darkseid's entrance to hear out Steppenwolf was kinda cool. The music score combined with the Parademons kneeling was neat

>>150057122 (OP)
What graphics card box did this come off of?

>>150057501
>Staplewolf

>>150057291
>Starro (not Gunn's shitty meme version)
Tard

>>150057291
Starro was fine.

>>150057201
But Marvel's big cinematic universe had their big bad send an underling to set him up for the 3rd movie so they had to do that to.

>>150057122 (OP)
Should have been either Brainiac with armies of drones, or Mongul bringing Warworld into orbit and the Justice League fighting loads of Warzoons.

>>150057224
Every WB product reeks of executive meddling ever since Marvel started raking in the millions.

>>150057334
>the hell was Snyder thinking?
>"Visual noise is graphically impressive. lets sell those IMAX tickets."

>>150057122 (OP)
Steppenwolf being exiled and trying to redeem himself by conquering worlds for Darkseid pathos and character depth that wouldn’t work with Kalibak who’s already a “p-p-please daddy, like me” snivelling worm with little intelligence beyond smash everything in sight.

>>150058139
Kirby!Kalibak wanted to usurp Darkseid

>>150057122 (OP)
I liked Whedon's version. alien barbarians are cool.

>>150058168
Theatrical is a better design but still too alien for the sake of it.

>>150058139
The thing is that this has zero rooting in steppenwolf too.

>>150057122 (OP)
Godfrey would have fit the tone the most desu. Someone who fearmongers about the lack of heroism while secretly being an invader.

>>150057122 (OP)
He was basically Brimstone, but less of a threat.

>>150057562
>Justice League level villain beaten by Harley fucking Quinn
Meme.

I really can't understand how this is a design that got approved

What's Hollywood's obsession with gray and boring villains?

this guy looks exactly like Aatrox from league of legends colored in gray instead of red and it really freaks me out

>>150057122 (OP)
KAL-EL NO

>>150057122 (OP)
in Kirby's original run this guy fucking dies even before the main storyline. Why use him?!

>>150059353
they keep hiring the same bunch of concept artists who got their start making games during the gray and brown era

>>150061357
>in Kirby's original run this guy fucking dies even before the main storyline. Why use him?!
He was revived as a soulless copy, in it, and got a spiky redesign

>>150061357
Because Snyder was just ripping off the New 52 Justice League & Earth 2 origins for his movie.

>>150058706
Steppenwolf was great in Snyder’s Cut. The Whedon version is boring as hell.

>>150058710
Godfrey doesn’t work at all when he’s a demagogue and doesn’t pose any physical threat.

>>150061357
And then he was brought back and regularly shows up. Steppenwolf is a character that works well as a military leader who runs the initial invasion force

>>150057122 (OP)
No because kalibak is best as a bitch made chump, hes a good villain but not a good team buster.

Shame that we never got to know what Snyder's Granny would've been like, other than her 10 second cameo.

>>150062307
Looks like she would've been sexy

>>150062307
Not fat enough.

>>150058168
I think they both suck for different reasons

>>150062126
He was a boring CGI slop monster in both versions

>>150058168
Neither one is good but at least the theatrical looks like something.

>>150062674
Nah his spike armour was great in the Snyder version and he had great little character moments

>>150059345
It's literally not. It was rejected for the theatrical version of Justice League and only allowed to be put in film for the Snyder Cut, a direct to streaming rerelease Snyder had complete control of.

I still think it's hilarious how utterly incompetent Snyder was at using Darkseid. First he spent an incredibly long sequence of his first appearance showing him getting his ass beat then he made him forget where Earth was for dumb plot reasons. It's almost character assassination at that point.

>>150058168
>>150058531
>>150062662
>>150062690
The theatrical would have looked vastly better with blank white or red eyes & his late new 52 viking beard.

Like the ASM Lizard they tried to humanize & sofen his face way too much.

>>150062696
He was a nothing character covered in stupid greeble shit

>>150062748
Probably would have helped if any of the Apokalips shit had color other than brown and gray. Seriously, Kirby's stuff is extremely colorful and Snyder just took a fat greasy shit over his aesthetics.

>>150057660
This is indeed a thing that gets throen at.dc all the time
>you have to.set things up like.marvel!

>>150057201
I think War was retarded and like a lot of the New 52 shit trying to set up Darkseid as their big bad completely missed the point of the character.

>>150057660
The thing is that even if Loki was Thanos' underling he was still a character in his own right that could carry a movie. Steppenwolf is like trying to make a single one of the literal who Black Order fags the main villain for a movie. It's extremely dumb to try and elevate a faceless henchman to the main villain role.

>>150062844
Comic fans thought the same about zod, who was jax-ur with worse schemes, before superman 2. Having a villain without much of a solo identity in the comics isn't an excuse because the filmmakers could've made them anything.

>>150062927
At least Zod conceptually as a character has *something* to work with. "A tyrant from Krypton's past that survived thanks to phantom zone" is an interesting idea in and of itself. Steppenwolf has fucking nothing, out of all the New Gods he's barely a footnote.

>>150062844
Steppenwolf is as good in the movie.
>DURRRRRR IT’S NOT KIRBY
So what.

>>150062993
You say that, but even setting Zod aside, we still have a lot of superhero movies where the bad guy was some Z-list nonentity in the comics, we have some superhero movies where the villain is a total OC, or basically an OC wearing the name of a comic character. Arguing against Steppenwolf just because he's a minor character in the comics isn't a credible argument when you consider some of the other villains in superhero movies. And in fairness to both versions of the Justice League movie, the villain isn't meant to be a complex and interesting character who carries the story, he's just meant to be a threat for the team to come together and fight, and meant to be a setup for Darkseid being in a sequel. The meat of the story is on the team overcoming their differences and coming together, and the point was to not have a villain who was too compelling to the point he'd distract from that.

>>150063222
>Steppenwolf is as good in the movie.
Not in the slightest. One is an actor who's performance people actually like and the other is some lame ass CGI abomination lacking personality and the slightest bit of color.

>>150063318
This is a dumb argument "they had to make him a bland mook or he would detract from them coming together" gets completely disproven by the first Avengers movie that started the formula in the first place. I don't particularly like it but at least they put some effort into the first major superhero team up movie. There's so much potential with the New Gods stuff and they constantly choose the dumbest possible way to handle them.

>>150063376
The first Avengers movie recycled an established villain from an earlier movie, so they didn't have to spend any time at all on who he was or what he wanted.

>>150063408
Yet he still had more development and personality established in that singular movie than Steppenwolf did. He's just a boring CGI monster killed by the power of friendship to set up the "real" big bad that already had his ass beat on screen in that very same movie.

>>150063460
Someone clearly just watched the butchered Whedon version

>>150057122 (OP)
>made more sense
Yes, which is why they didn't do it.

>>150063649

63RDpbp

>>150057122 (OP)
>>150058168
Why do modern directors fucking love ridiculous overdesigned shit like this?

>>150058139
There is no point in hyping the big huge team movie with the most 55th rate nobody for a villain, especially a character that has never once had any fans in 45 years.

>>150062155
>doesn’t pose any physical threat.
Only a tiny handfull of New Gods actually do. Steppenwolf was also not one of them, he was a yellow mongol looking caricature that rides on a big dog but had no superpowers either. He was made up with fancy super strong powers for this film.

>>150063621
>set up the "real" big bad that already had his ass beat on screen in that very same movie.
This is from snyder

>>150063318
That doesn't mean picking the most Z List nobody you can is a practice to keep doing or some goal to reach anytime a big budget hero movie gets the greenlight. Somehow that became the standard practice that the villain must always be the biggest nobody they can possibly dig up.

People want to see the big name villains that are popular. Add in Mongul, Brainiac, or Metallo to a fucking Superman movie already. We have had nothing but evil Kryptonians or Superman clones since 1980.

>>150062844
Loki was also the main villain in the first comic that brought the Avengers together so the movie had a basis there.

Steppenwolf was just WB imitating the same event with this mindset of
>Wait, we can't show Darkseid yet!!! We have to hold onto him for the BIG REVEAL in about 8 years!!!
Which was pretty bold of them to assume they would get that much time to build up the actual character that fans would want to see on screen, while wasting time with shit nobody has ever cared about.

>>150063852
>But Kirby…

Shut the fuck up. Seriously.

>>150064061
Nah, the obvious secondary like you should.

>>150059325

Yea… I like Gunn but he did NOT do Starro justice.

Fucking Batman the Brave and the Bold did Starro better

>>150057122 (OP)
>Wouldn’t it have made more sense
Snyder isn't known for that

>>150057291
comic book niggas like you are miserable and picky as fuck, it's a miracle we even got Starro on the big screen let alone in his full normal appearance instead of being a gas cloud or something and you retards will still find something to complain about

>>150057122 (OP)
reminder that he's called Steppenwolf after the band because they had a prog rock album out the year before he was introduced

reminder that as arbitrary names go Steppenwolf and Kalibak are even equally ridiculous as a result and there's no difference between them

reminder that arbitrary superpowers mean nothing if the bad guy only exists as a mcguffin to get the good guys together

he could have been literally anybody

instead he was literally who

>>150066008
>reminder that he's called Steppenwolf after the band because they had a prog rock album out the year before he was introduced
Always, here's The Bat from 1926, a man who dresses like a bat to scare his victims, has a bar shaped spotlight to signal his arrival and scales buildings with grapping hooks.

>>150066008
Beautiful Dreamer is also named after a song.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4KrMWhXSpu8&pp=ygUeYmVhdXRpZnVsIGRyZWFtZXIgd2FrZSB1bnRvIG1l

>>150066135
Everyone knows Batman is a ripoff of other pulp heroes already. That's not the point & doesn't excuse how Steppenwolf is a nothing character.

>>150057122 (OP)
a villain who isn't a ridiculously overdesigned grey blob would not have stood a chance at selling any tickets in the movie landscape of the 2010s, because setting server farms on fire was a promotional badge of honour and actual colour was apparently reinvented in approximately 2023

>>150057224
Funny you should say that, given Gunn's underperformed and Snyder's didn't.

>>150057472
Because they arrived by portal using the mother boxes as the guide, then lost them when returning through the same portal.
Then the only way they had to return was through normal space travel, which was a bit tricky given that the boxes had a mind of their own and didn't follow maps and stuff.
It's like I take you somewhere in a car with the windows blocked, somewhere far, and then I take you back home and ask you to get there again by feet. And you're like, lol how.

>>150066852
'25 doesn't underperform, and It's disingenious to ignore how we're in a totally different film landscape now.

>>150063854
By people no longer there. Zeus, Ares and Athena had to team up to drive him away. They're not there anymore. Only the watered down version, WW, is there. Hence why it's problematic.
"The guy fought the gods and lost."
Oh my. Underwhelming?

>>150066957
Lmao.
The movie doing the same numbers as other movies that also underperformed does not mean it did not underperform. It only confirms it.
Not only did it make less than Man of Steel despite having a shill army and the doggerino PETArds shilling it, but it didn't even make enough to cover for its expenses.

Honestly, I think the whole 'we need to plan 50 steps in advance for our movie universe' is retarded. Both the DCEU and MCU post-Endgame have shown how easily that shit would go wrong from just a slight disruption of any kind.

>>150064061
nobody gives a fuck about Kirby

People do give a fuck about the big bad of the films is random henchman #17 because we can't have anyone known or liked in a movie yet!!!!! That needs to wait for 2032 at least!!!!


and did it work? Did the big movie starring Henchman #17 make money and bring about the huge successful franchise? Does every kid have a toy of Henchman #17? Is every fan wearing a t-shirt with a splash image of Superman fighting Henchman #17? Where is the hugely popular cartoon spinoff starring the adventures of the Justice League defending Earth from the evil forces of Henchman #17?

>>150066957
>Welll uhh.....akshully.....the economic activity of the times....

Sorry Gunnpedo, Pedoman failed at the box office while Snyder's film performed TWICE.

>>150067006
Pretty sure it already made profit.
And it's the top superhero movie of the year, unlike MoS which was beaten quite heavily by Iron 'No Mandarin' Man 3.

>>150067007
MCU got screwed by trusting in a dindu to carry their next phase of villainy but modern MCU is exactly what happens when you don't plan shit and instead just greenlight a bunch of random spinoffs. Post-Endgame needed to include a couple new movie trilogies right away to make up for the loss of Ironman and Captain America but instead you got 3 endings of stories instead in No Way Home, Guardians 3, and Thor 4.

>>150057291
Mongul would have been a great choice. Sort of a Darkseid with training wheels
I have no clue why they felt the need to really make the plot so convoluted about all of Apokolips somehow forgetting the one location where they were defeated and actually held the anti life. Instead they could have dismantled the big yellow bastards power structure and still keep him around instead of trying to speed run why Darkseid is a big deal and just making a mess

>>150067104
We had an entire fucking roadmap for Phase 4-6 that they showed us. They absolutely made some choices with the assumption they would pay it off later, but then had to scrable to change plans way too late when shit didn't go to plans (2/3 of their lead negroes being taken off the board, Eternals utterly flopping, etc.)
And yeah, sure, I think there were other problems too (taking both Cap and Iron Man off the board was maybe too risky, the sheer amount of Marvel Spam, etc.), but overplanning played a part.

>>150057122 (OP)
I always brought this up when discussing the first villian associated with Darkseid's arrival.

I feel it shouldve been Kalibak and Granny's furies, the Justice League BARELY win but because of Kal's defeat, Darkseid appears and vapes him in front of the JL and say he will return another time.

>>150067094
Literally surpassed two Snyder movies domestically & made a profit.

>>150067207
Their plan just sucked. But having a plan and also planning to be able to pivot from that plan when it doesn't work or is poorly received are still essential for long term story telling. They made a phase of entirely sidequests and story endings which was a big mistake. But it wasn't a mistake to try to plan stuff.

>>150067007
>Honestly, I think the whole 'we need to plan 50 steps in advance for our movie universe' is retarded.
fucking this, I hate that this is the norm now.
It's stupid to want to hold off on any A+ characters in a movie until movie #8 because any one of a thousand things can happen between now and later that kills the whole franchise.
>Studio loses money and cancels all future projects
>Studio merger causes all projects to be cancelled
>Some other studio makes a wizard movie that makes a shitload of money and now Warner decides they are making wizard movies now
>Director gets cancelled and now their franchise is dead

>>150067282
I'm not saying 'no planning', I'm saying 'make some shorter fucking plans', make a plan for one phase (maybe one and a half), not fucking three

Actually, who would be a good villain for a JL movie?
Hard Mode: No Starro, Darkseid or Legion of Doom

>>150057122 (OP)
Stephen Wolf.

>>150067364
I question if MCU even had a plan other than "we are going to make all these TV shows and inconsequential movies after we release the already planned movies for Spider-man and Guardians". What we got seemed list a series of hastily written stuff shoved out the door.

>>150067521
Brainiac seems pretty timely with AI stuff today.

>>150067521
White martians?
Just adapt any Morrison arc in JLA

>>150059325
It was a team effort.

>>150067521
Despero
Atrocitus
Neron
Mongul
Dominators
Khund

>>150067521
surprised nobody's said amazo yet, i reckon there's potential there
not only could you maybe use him to set up future characters like red tornado or the omac corps (depending on what angle you take) but just the general concept of him being able to do anything the core justice league can could lend to some cool effects of him changing and adapting, like the future past sentinels i guess

>>150067965
Seems like they would just make him look like a generic future past sentinel like you said which isn't visually appealing to me. Silver amorphous shapeshifter is played out now. And a blank slate character doesn't make for a compelling main villain. Compare it to someone like Thanos, Darkseid, Brainiac, Luthor, etc. who actually have something to say and whose philosophy can clash with the heroes allows for you to not just have a physical battle but also learn more about every character through their conflict with the bad guy.

>>150066905
This is so fucking stupid and making Mother Boxes that important was a mistake

>>150063976
>People want to see the big name villains that are popular.
Most people don't know any DC villains except the big Batman villains, plus Lex Luthor and maybe General Zod. Comics nerds may know Darkseid and other villains that are big names within the comics, but to Joe Normie, all those guys you named, and most of the names other anons suggested in this thread would be as Literally Who? as Steppenwolf would be. There literally isn't anyone who's a Justice League-tier villain who's actually known and liked by the general public, and with Marvel repeatedly using Literally Who? characters as villains for movies because the heroes are the draw, and succeeding, it seems particularly disingenuous for people to keep sperging out about DC trying the same thing, and acting like the villain was the main reason this movie underperformed. It wouldn't have done any better if the villain was some guy comics readers like better but normies have still never heard of.

>>150067207
Eternals made 400 million during corona years, the audience not liking it just gave them an excuse to not use the characters again because they had no idea what to do with them

>>150067521
i think bizarro would've been nice and a good excuse for superman to get resurrected.

>>150057291
>Starro (not Gunn's shitty meme version)
I didn't even like Suicide Squad but Starro was fine.

>>150057122 (OP)
Why was everything in Snyderverse a set up for something else

>>150067521
Brainiac, Vandal Savage, Anti-Monitor, Gorilla Grodd.

>>150069571
Because it was a poor parody of the MCU.

>>150069571
Sherazade syndrome.

>Man of Steel is Superman's origin story, you must come to see it.
>Oh, Superman wasn't superman during man of steel, it is just his origin.
>See BvS to see he becoming superman.
>He was Superman only during the ending!!! To see Superman, you need to watch the JL movie!!
>When I said "watch the JL movie, I meant the whole saga!! Only after it he will fully be superman!!

>>150067521
White Martians

>>150072278
>superman is now evil and in control of Darkseid
>but when he breaks free...he will THEN be Superman

>>150072278
Reminds me of the RISE OF THE TOMB RAIDER

>>150069412
damn..

>>150061482
The redesign was from Super Powers.

>>150062155
Steppenwolf's only asset was unquestioning savagery. Darkseid baited him into starting the war between Apokolips and New Genesis and thus disrupting his sister's rule so Darkseid could rise.

>>150067521
For the first movie, I'd do the Appellaxian invaders as the initial active menace, with Amos Fortune and the Luck League pulling stellaration manipulation in the overall plot.

>>150067062
Plaid is not always the answer.

>>150069412
yeah, but it got real bad reviews from both casuals and critics

>>150063320
What do you mean
People loved Snyder's Steppanwolf
>>150057122 (OP)
Kalibak looks like a cavemen, people won't take him seriously

>>150057122 (OP)
Who is Kalibak?

>>150076461
>People loved Snyder's Steppanwolf
Fucking who? People generally thought he was an *improvement* over the theatrical version but no one outside of Snyder bros ever thought he was a particularly good antagonist.

>>150062307
I could unironically see Snyder having Dessad, Granny, Kalibak and Godfrey being the Black Order of Darkseid just so he can name them the Four Horsemen of Apokolips

>>150066852
Movie goers were left with a taste in there mouths after Snyder's DC suicide-verse

>headline Steppenwolf as the major bad guy in your new superhero blockbuster
>not even one Steppenwolf song in your soundtrack
WTF?

>>150079263
Zach the hack

>>150067521
Despero, prometheus, Eclipso, Amazo,

>>150067282
The problem with having your entire movie slate being connected is that if just one (1) suffers from box office failure or gets stuck in production hell, it throws the entire thing off. So, of course, dumping a landslide of slop on Disney+ made it 10X worse.

>>150078398
Kalibak DEEZ NUTS!

>>150080498
>Seven Soldiers Mister Miracle out of NOWHERE

>>150078400
I'm mostly referring to /tv/ who seemed to have really liked the "You still owe Darkseid 100k planets" bit