Thread 150067939

Why is it that kids in the 60s had no problem following and identifying with a middle-aged scientist with an unconventional superpower rarely used for combat, but modern kids make fun of him because he wasn't strong enough to solo Galactus?
Are zoomer audiences incapable of identifying with characters who aren't super strong shonen teenage self-inserts?

probably became he was a completely superfluous character

the movie should have just been called The Invisible Woman and she should have been impregnated through in vitro fertilization via sperm donor since no one else mattered in the movie but sue and the baby

>>150067939 (OP)
Pretty much yeah

fiction has advanced since the 60s. its hard to care about something that is planet level at best with other verses are having conflicts on a multi or omniversal scale

>>150067939 (OP)
Bro it's a pretext to dunk on Pedro's awful casting

>>150067969
The whole plan wouldn't exist or be possible without him

>>150067982
And yet street level heroes are among some of the most popular. That's autistic as fuck.

>>150067982
>fiction has advanced since the 60s.
debatable. Kids in the past were probably better read.

>>150067939 (OP)
Because 60s Reed was written as that era's equivalent of a chad and was a masculine explorer scientist. Reedo Ricardo is an ugly faggot who spends the whole movie looking around like a moron and being led by his wife.

>>150067939 (OP)
>Are zoomer audiences incapable of identifying with characters who aren't super strong shonen teenage self-inserts?
A LOT of people who are into nerdy stuff, including this site, only watch fiction to self insert, without any interest to engage with a work of fiction beyond that.
Even then, Reed has always been sort of a distant figure to kids, who tend to gravitate towards either Johnny or Ben.

>>150067969
Not true

>>150067939 (OP)
Modern zoomers love Rivals Reed so I don’t know what you’re talking about, OP. Maybe MCU Reed is just lame and boring?

>>150068000
>That's autistic as fuck.
Ironically Reed actually having autism is what turns a lot of readers/watchers off

>>150068217
Rivals in general made casuals go and read comics more than the movies ever did. I remember a pic from earlier this year from a comic store having a display ful of FF issues with the sign "As featured in Marvel Rivals".

>>150068181
That made me think that Mr Fantastic was the one of the quartet with the less detailed backstory between the four in the oldest runs

>>150067993
He was good in the role desu

>>150068303
He was for a long, long time. It wasn't until Byrne that we got a first glimpse into Reed's youth, since the most detail we got during the Lee/Kirby run was his encounter with Doom in college and that he fought alongside Ben in WW2. Iirc, we still haven't gotten one glimpse at Reed's mother in his 60+ years of publication.

>>150067982
>fiction has advanced since the 60s
oh you

>>150067982
People have gotten dumber too

>>150068091
Reed's a fucking nerd, bro.

>>150068217
>Modern zoomers love Rivals Reed so I don’t know what you’re talking about, OP
They love Sue.

>>150068451
Yeah but a chad nerd

>>150067939 (OP)
Pablo Pascal fatigue and the cast is just too old/bland in general, costumes also suck
the 60s idea was always shit and that aesthetic is overplayed, already used it in Wandavision and Loki too. The Tim Story movie had the right idea to pass up on it and set it during modern times
like Johnny should've been some TikTok eceleb zoomer then there would be something younger people could relate too

>>150068451
no, he's a super genius. being smart isnt nerdy, being a socially inept virgin is. reed is a genius and charasmatic enough to land a bombshell too

>>150069116
>Johnny should've been some TikTok eceleb zoomer
Not since 2013 have I wanted an Anon to kill themselves like I do now.

>>150069116
>The Tim Story movie had the right idea to pass up on it and set it during modern times
No, that would've been dumb and repetitive.

Do kids actually make fun of Reed Richards?

>>150068220
Reed is not autistic. No I don't care about some random ass panel by a hack.

>>150069685
What happened in 2013?

>>150070395
But another retro member the 60s futuristic setting isnt? its almost as repetitive as 80s/90s nostalgia

>>150067982
this is one of the dumbest things ever posted on /co/

>>150067982
kek
dont tell this dude about books

Do you think kids in the '90s would have cared about a superhero movie set in the 30's?

>>150071288
>But another retro member the 60s futuristic setting isnt?
No. This is a cool move for FF in particular because they acknowledge the popular stance that the characters are dated and are making an effort to capitalize on that perception instead of trying to defy it.

>>150067939 (OP)
>kids
Marvel movies aren’t made for kids.

>>150067982
Based retard

>>150071288
>another retro member the 60s futuristic setting isnt?
Name 4 in the last 10 years
Or 5 in the last 15

>>150072533
>Do you think kids in the '90s would have cared about a superhero movie set in the 30's?

>>150072533
Considering that, in the 1990's, I was watching that b&w Superman show on Nick at Nite...

Yes?

>>150067939 (OP)
Its the movies job to make the powers interesting to watch

>>150067939 (OP)
I didn't watch the movie but did he outsmart Galactus? In older cartoons I remember, nothing can beat Galactus. You can just outsmart him. The original Reed tricked him into staying away from Earth like how Aladdin tricked Jaffar into wishing he was a genie. It wasn't a display of strength but it was admirable.

>>150070411
I have seen tiktoks mocking his shitty stretching limit and comparing it to the Reed from the 2005 film with like a million views

>>150067939 (OP)
>this entire post

Stop false-flagging and even pretending that that's the problem with this movie.

>>150073757
What would you say is the real problem with the movie? My belief is there are several, and OP's supposition is among them.

>>150073767
Casting just sucked.

I'm sorry but pascal is a an unconvincing actor, he is a bad actor. The rest of them were just miscast.

Your story can survive many things, but it can't survive a bad main character, and in this case it had four.

It was a good story with decent visuals and pacing, ultimately let down by the fact you had to watch four bad portrayals present it all.

>>150068760
those were not invented until the late 90s at the earliest.

>>150072584
They aren't dated thou, they have been done in modern times before so why does an adaptation need to be in the 60s

>>150073767
None of them go on a real arc and Silver Surfhers one is so goofy, like "what do you mean sacrificing people is le bad". Galactus is a joke but at least looks accurate and is defeated by an invisible girl push
Also the chemistry just inst there despite the push for family, they dont even really bicker which the 05 movie got right and their personalities felt more subdued and we get introduced to them so late in their careers with them achieving borderline world peace and shit. Personally i also just dislike Reed and Sues kids because they are fanfic tier and dont feel official so i hate their kid being in this movie with his bullshit Jesus powers

>>150072533
What's with zoomers and "it's set before my time I can't le relate" bullshit? I've never seen any other generation do that.

>>150074272
I'm 36.

>>150074272
You must not leave your basement much then. That attitude is older than dirt. In the immediate past we had people turning up their nose at black and white tv and movies because they were too old-timey, and there was no internet generation around to be responsible for that.

>>150067939 (OP)
>Are zoomer audiences incapable of identifying with characters who aren't super strong shonen teenage self-inserts?
Why do people one year older than zoomers love complaining about shit that's been common for decades
I remember watching Courage as a kid and thinking about how rare it is to have a cast that's just old people and why adult protags aren't common

>>150074336
False fucking equivalence. Color being seen as superior to black and white (which is debatable once you stop getting filtered by the lack of color but at least understandable) =/= "b-but where are smarphonez at ;_;"
Back in my day people watched Columbo, Bruce Lee movies and James Bond movies from the 60s and 70s.
t. 90s kid.

>>150072533
Batman TAS was anachronistic as fuck and that was part of the appeal
>>150074272
I never met a zoomer who said this at all. Thought I wouldn't be shocked if they exist, because people like that always fucking existed
People used to hate black and white movies, thought 2d games were lame, some people don't like fantasy or find history boring, think

>>150074444
>anachronistic
I think you meant to say that it was retro. It was incredibly anachronistic if it was actually meant to be set in the past, because it not only had color TVs, but had supercomputers, Terminator robots, vr, mind control devices and other scifi stuff that couldn't really exist in the past or even today.

The part of the art style that appealed to kids most was that it could be dark and spooky, yet was still colorful, not that it was retro. Almost like Five Nights at Freddies, but not crap.

>>150072533
That's....more or less what Batman was then. Yeah it had some modern bits but it was heavily retro 30s aesthetic. And kids loved it. So unless modern society and generational divide has gotten so drastic that kids today cannot under or appreciate anything that existed before the few years since they were born that's not the problem.

>>150067939 (OP)
It's because they got their powers from space instead of the N Zone so the whole thing doesn't make any sense.

>>150067995
Theyd just say she was smart and clever and came up with it on her own chud

>>150074272
Zoomers were the first generation to have streaming, which meant they never had to watch reruns of stuff that was before their time because it was the only thing on at the time. So they've been drowned in nothing but their own time period culture all their lives. Other generations did not, and while really dated stuff like black and white was "Too old" they were mostly able to absorb stuff 30ish years before them without too much trouble because it didn't look THAT different compared to their then present day, compared to Zoomers seeing any era without high speed internet and smart phones are totally alien. Remember from the 40s to about the late 80s general society and technology really didn't change that drastically. There were incrimental improvements but they came at a small pace. It wasn't until about the mid 90s that tech started changing rapidly year to year

>>150074436
See>>150074745

It's because the 60s and 70s weren't THAT drastically different society and tech wise from the 90s. Fashion was different, tvs and phones looked a little sleeker and fancier but you were still largely limited to cable and landlines. Youth culture was different but that didn't come up very often in prime time shows which were largely for adults. You could see the 60s and still vaguely get it where as to someone who's known the modern interconnected world all their life a world without smartphones is totally alien.

A good example is comparing the 80s in Back to the Future to the 50s. It's different, but not to the point where Marty finds it totally alien and unable to navigate. He immediately goes to look up Doc in a phonebook because those were still a thing in the 80s for example. He looks weird in his 80s clothes but once he gets rid of them he can blend in fairly well beyond some minor oddities like having trouble opening a glass bottle because he's used to cans.

>>150072533
Dick Tracy(1990) was pretty successful.
I remember liking it as a little kid.

>>150069353
a bombshell several years younger than him

>>150069116
>Pablo Pascal fatigue
no such thing exists
chuds are malding he's left leaning and got pussy

Only mildly related to the conversation above, but I just looked some things up and found out there was another Nero Wolfe series made in 2001.
Didn't know that existed, was it any good? I've only seen the 80s one.

>>150074687
>I have made up fictional scenarios in my head and now I am MAD about it!

>>150075029
Did Tracy have any powers or was he just a detective?

>>150075203
He's a comic character with a very distinct costume and weird and colorful villains, I don't think he needs powers to fit the bill.

>>150074657
see >>150074629

>>150075203
Dick Tracy, The Rocketeer, The Phantom, etc. all "underperformed" in theaters. I think Dick Tracy was the best performing, but it didn't really do much better than breaking even.

>>150075029
He was just a detective. He did have a wristwatch with a 2-way radio in it, but that's about all.

>>150072533
Yes.

BTAS was set in a vaguely retrofuture 1930's world, and that was, and still is, extremely popular.

>>150075398
Dick Tracy made over 160 million against a budget of 46 million.

>>150075419
>and still is, extremely popular.
Lol, no.

>>150075433
Oh, I think I was comparing the budget to how much it made before an overseas release.

>>150075461
How is it not popular?

>>150075466
How is it? A bunch of nerds saying BTAS is the best adaptation of the comic we've ever had doesn't exactly say anything about the 1930's retrofuture that literally nobody outside of /co/ even mentions outside of being dark and moody.

>>150075500
The series is popular. The setting is just a retro future Gotham that doesn't get enough praise but it should. I like it over the almost steampunk designs or literally Chicago looks you get in movies. Burton's Gotham looks too fake & Schumacher was worse.

>>150075500
I said BTAS was extremely popular. You said it wasn't. Now you're claiming I meant something else, when I didn't.

>>150075500
I was huge in it's day, despite the retro theming, which kind of proves that kids don't have trouble getting into something old styled for their present if it's done right, unless Zoomers and Alphas are just completely mentally different from any other generation before them even as little kids.

>>150075509
>>150075510
I think I just misinterpreted the post.

>The setting is just a retro future Gotham that doesn't get enough praise but it should.
Why? They took a story set in the modern day and slapped a style from 60+ years prior onto it, which didn't really do anything for it other than make things like Riddler working for a videogame company seem weird by contrast.

>I like it over the almost steampunk designs
That's a pretty fucking low bar/

>>150067939 (OP)
Pedro Pascal is a charisma void unless he have something to hide his baby head

>>150075581
Because it's cool & classy. Fits the tone of the show with Batman dealing with suit wearing gangsters as he should.

>>150067939 (OP)
60's read was a stern, no nonsense White Man genius who was banging a smoking hot blonde 20 years younger than him who he ruled over as an unquestioned Patriarch and FFFS Reed is an effeminate spic who's screwing a 50 year old

>>150075581
Because it's the coolest setting that's ever been used in anything ever

>>150075500
The setting of BTAS left such an impression on me that I view it as the ideal possible setting for nearly everything
>>150072533
Yes, the 30's & 40's are some of the most kino decades of all human existence.

>>150068312
Are you excited to see the jewish Black Panther in Secret Wars?

>>150067993
not that awful actually

>>150074009
Because the last adaptation that tried to modernize them was dogshit and the one before that was iffy
If the 2000s FF came out today people would call it just another generic MCU movie
FF beeds something to stand out and a retro aesthetic is a good choice for that

>>150068091
Reed's better as an autistic loser that gets cucked

>>150073351
Not really
Galactus was overpowered by Sue

>>150067939 (OP)
>Are zoomer audiences incapable of identifying with characters who aren't super strong shonen teenage self-inserts?
That's pretty much it.

>>150076582
The new Superman's pretty well liked despite being quite a bit weaker than Snyder's Superman
I think it's just a writing issue

>>150076562
That's not true and people should stop forcing this retarded meme.

>>150076923
It's true though?
Their stupid plan to trick Galactus didn't work and Sue/Silver surfer had to push him in while he's basically helpless the entire time

>>150067939 (OP)
Pedro Pascal.
Mystery solved.

>>150067939 (OP)
Your argument is intellectually lazy and based on a completely unfounded assumption. Popularity isn't determined by power levels. It’s about character, story, and connection. Your comment is disrespectful and demonstrates a profound lack of understanding of how people enjoy media.

>>150074745
>Zoomers were the first generation to have streaming
Gen Z's 1995-2009, retard. Do the math.

>>150077313
He's right, if you turned on cartoon network before 2000 it was 1 hour of original stuff every week and the rest was 24/7 Hanna Barbera reruns. Simple times. But after that it's all DANIMALS DRINK YOUR FUCKING DANIMALS AND YOU CAN ENTER A ZACK AND CODY SWEEPSTAKES AND WIN A CARIBBEAN CRUISE VACATION WOOOOOOOOOOO LOOK HERE'S A KID WITH A GIANT NOSE AND A SKELETON AND HE'S EATING BOOGERS WOOOOOOOO

>>150077313
>2009
So, 14 when Disney+ came out, thus, first generation to grow up with streaming.

>>150068217
Nobody gives a shit about Reed in MR until he is picked and then they bitch about how useless he is.

MR is just for all the ladies with the same model.

>>150077109
>Popularity isn't determined by power levels. It’s about character, story, and connection.
Broly.

>>150072533
Dick Tracy, The Rocket, The Shadow. If you want to go earlier a lot of cowboy shit.

Yea kids had no problems loving 30s or earlier when it was interesting.

>>150077065
>Sue/Silver surfer had to push him in
It was a collective effort. Everyone had to contribute to pushing him.
>he's basically helpless the entire time
Except he would've overpowered them without Surfer?

>>150072533
Why are you acting like the 90's wasnt filled with era pieces?
Pic related was one of the most popular films of the era
we had the Mask act like a fucking Tex Avery cartoon from the 40's wearing a Zoot Suit from the 30's
how many kids do you think got that?

>>150075194
All these movies are fictional. Saying you HAVE to have Reed to come up with the plan when they'd just have Sue come up with it is retarded and so are you

>>150077109
Your intellectually superior counter argument was destroyed by a single word.
Maybe you're not as smart as you think lmao.

>>150076898
It is?
I only saw posts about how he loses every fight and about how it didn't make the money they needed.
Oh and of course, the Kara posts. Especially the one where she calls him a bitch. Well deserved, I presume, based on all of the above.
So who actually likes him? Some sort of bot farm? The numbers don't really reflect this. I mean, you have been saying that the Snyder cultists were a fringe MINORITY for years, and less people than that liked this movie. What's smaller than a fringe minority? A man with 20 accounts talking to himself, or nothing.

>>150067982
Dumbest thing I have ever read on /co/. Detox yourself from Death Battle threads, readers don't give a shit about multiversal scale conflicts.
Stories are about setup and payoff. Tension and satisfaction. The bigger the stakes are, the WORSE the story becomes in general because once the stakes surpass a certain point you lose all tension.

A scene where the bad guy has a gun to the head of the hero's love interest is infinitely more tense than a scene where the bad guy has his finger on the button that destroys all universes forever. Because the hero has a personal connection to his love interest, there is emotion and investment there. No one is emotionally attached to the multiverse. Whats more, I have legitimate cause to worry about the fate of the love interest. The villain COULD kill her and that would be a tragedy but one that the story could survive and work with. The villain cannot blow up all of the universes, there is no version of the story where thats a realistic outcome that would ever get written so I have zero fear that will happen. Or, if it does happen, it would be reversed somehow anyway so it might as well not have happened. Because the death of the love interest forces a change on the character and their development, and the destruction of all universes is just "Nothing that happened in this story mattered, the end goodbye"

>>150077426
He's clearly not smart if his plan was so easily foiled by someone just not walking into the trap

>>150067939 (OP)
>Why is it that kids in the 60s had no problem following and identifying with a middle-aged scientist with an unconventional superpower rarely used for combat
They didn't, Johnny was the most popular of the four, which is why he had a bunch of solo adventures and teamups with other heroes outside the F4, especially Spider-Man.

>>150078223
I thought Ben was. He had his own spin-off cartoon. It seemed like he had mast character appeal.

>>150078256
Ben was a close second, point was Reed has pretty consistently been the least popular of the F4 for most of their existence.

>>150073912
>henry ford didnt exist until 1990
>norman rockwell dads didnt exist until 1990

>>150067939 (OP)
Reed is nobody's favourite superhero. The Thing was always the most popular F4 member.

>>150077882
It's almost like they were out of options and had to count on a gamble.

>>150076898
While Superman has his own issues with public perception, he unironically has more casual appeal than Fantastic Four because he flies and punches stuff. That's so simple any retard can follow it, so it's always gonna be an easier sell than the family of four superhero explorers where only one guy flies and only one guy consistently punches stuff.

>>150078448
Maybe not favorite but I really like him. He have his charm.

>>150067969
Way to intentionally miss the whole appeal of the Fantastic 4, they oughta hire you at Marvel.

>>150067982
Average reddit poster

>>150075066
Based

>>150077832
holy midwit post

>>150068181
>A LOT of people who are into nerdy stuff, including this site, only watch fiction to self insert, without any interest to engage with a work of fiction beyond that.

Took me a long time to understand this. I didn't get why a character being "relatable" was important. I've never cared about relating to fictional characters or found one relatable. I only care about characters being interesting and entertaining. But a large subset of fans just want characters that are like them or reflect their personal struggles or who they can project onto

>>150074147
>Silver Surfhers one is so goofy, like "what do you mean sacrificing people is le bad".
Someone should've told that to Lee and Kirby. This is Surfer's canonical arc.
>they dont even really bicker
Good. I've seen enough of that in the comics, it's a tired repetitive plot beat at this point that's not really necessary.

>>150077426
>It was a collective effort. Everyone had to contribute to pushing him.
Sure technically, but Sue did most of the work
>Except he would've overpowered them without Surfer?
He literally went into the hole with just Sue
Sue could've pushed him back in if she didn't die

>I only saw posts about how he loses every fight and about how it didn't make the money they needed.
>Oh and of course, the Kara posts. Especially the one where she calls him a bitch. Well deserved, I presume, based on all of the above.
I'm talking about normal people not people here
>I mean, you have been saying that the Snyder cultists were a fringe MINORITY for years, and less people than that liked this movie.
No idea what or who you're talking about

>>150067939 (OP)
Now we're dealing with record immaturity. Women...well, no examples needed. We all know about THAT. Guys will go see shitty movies just because they want to fap to some actress. Kids are all about unga-bunga heroes, far more so than they used to be.

uh mucho texto

>>150067939 (OP)
As a comic book reader who watched the marvel movies without no knowledge, including the foxmen and sony spidey, it's pretty clear to any casual that the FF are outclassed. Reed had the best idea - tellport - but the movie was plot contrived so both those attempts would easily fail.

It just is very obvious, very convoluted plot contrivances, and audience aren't going to accept that unless they are really invested in the team. So Avengers Endgame and Infinity Wars can get away with pulling some of that shit, but no one really knows enough or cares about these characters, particularly this version of them.

Sue's full use of her powers to the point of death being what works is possibly plausible but I don't think people were invested in her enough to care. It would have been better if she had died and was replaced by an AU/other Earth Sue played by the same actress and that was Franklin's power - bringing her over - perhaps a Sue who lost Reed and never had Franklin.

But they aren't going to have time to do a second movie to explore shit like that.

>>150081476
>Sure technically, but Sue did most of the work
Almost like she has the potential to be the most powerful on the team or something
>He literally went into the hole with just Sue
So Sue effectively dies from pushing him and he still has the strength to climb back. So clearly that wouldn't have been enough on its own.

sneed