Thread 150069152

The common consensus for this pilot seems to be that its got a good style, character designs, and animation, but forgettable writing that tries to ape current modern trends to its detriment. So, how would (You) fix this pilot? What would you add, change, or takeaway?

>>150069152 (OP)
It's a sitcom that's animated. We've seen it before.

>>150069152 (OP)
>fix
Can't fix perfection OP.
The pilot is perfect and if it doesn't get picked up it's the fault of everyone else.

>>150069152 (OP)
make the bunny a femboy and give him a tasty bulge while keeping the same va

>>150069152 (OP)
You forgot to mention the dogshit audio mixing and music production.

>>150069152 (OP)
>visual medium
>characters sit around and talk
>adulting is hard amirite fellow responsible adults with depression haha
For fucks sake.. the only good part was at the end when they were climbing the billboard because THAT WAS ACTUAL ANIMATION.

>>150069152 (OP)
it was shit, its just pop culture references and complaining about MUH WORL BAD, and nothing happend

>>150069168
get some standards man....

best character passing by

>>150069152 (OP)
>good style, character designs, and animation
>but shit writing
say it with me now
EVERY
SINGLE
TIME

>>150070117
This is what you get when a visual artist want to make a series yet they get NO advice from an actual writer. You can draw and even animate really good, but writing requires a whole different skillset.

>>150069152 (OP)
Didn't we just have this thread?
To answer your question, both sound and music need to get better.

Where's the porn?

>>150069986
>Hot Topic TEEN according to the sheet
uhhhh anon, she/they/it is only 17.9999 years old…

>>150069152 (OP)
>live in an era where furries can finally make their own animated shows
>0 nudity or sex scenes in most of them. including hazbin hotel.
strange

>>150070496
OUT OF 10!

>>150070463
There was some in the last thread. Art hasn't been archived tho.

>>150070626
>>150070463
i still have the ones i did last thread
https://files.catbox.moe/h8sbr2.png
https://files.catbox.moe/nspdxc.png

>>150070626
>>150070652
Nice, thank you.

>>150070652
i gonna blow they/them asses

>>150069152 (OP)
Well the show wants to establish these characters.

Cat = snarky, insecure hipster loser
Dog = Smart, dorky loser
Bunny = Nice pretty girl who sometimes has some bad luck

I'm not a fan of this format, where each character has their own mini story in this already very short cartoon. They also didn't establish the theme well or do any setup and pay off. Which is the most important thing when writing.

(On rewatch, I guess the fire thing was mentioned when the dog was reading shit on her phone, but I didn't care to read it as I imagined most people didn't on the first watch through. Plus, there's no reason the fire actually happened. It just happened. It's briefly mentioned in the most boring and missable way at the start and then shown at the end. No real payoff. Just nothing)

Writing should be seen as a puzzle of set up pay off "this happened therefore this other thing happened" (Pixar writing format, but it works for everything). You need to know what the theme is and establish that, and you need set-ups and pay-offs. This is just basic writing advice anyone should know before making anything. You need to know the rules before you break them. But these rules are pretty loose, and unless you are completely narcissistic or trying to make some really fucking insane arthouse madness, these are good things to keep in mind.

I am not a fan of what was written, and I would just scrap the whole thing, but as a writing exercise, I'll try "fixing" it. In part 2 of this comment.
>Part 1 of 2

>>150070383
Do you really think any of these guys know writers? I mean like actual have written multiple books/comics/etc writers and not some jackass who said they are but never finished their first draft?

Fuck no.

Alot of these animators can find a sound guy, VAs or other artists to help on their show but writers are typically bottom for them. That's cause a writer will have to touch what they will consider THEIRS being the plot. A writer will tell them that a character they liked drawing serves nothing to the plot and needs to be cut. Scenes need to be cut down, just alot of shit that they will have to compromise on.

Alot of them won't ever do that.

We're just gonna keep getting that same shit going of 'looks good but written like ass' cause alot of current day artists and writers are not in the same circles.

>>150069152 (OP)
its just characters doing mundane things.
but its goes beyond its shows them doing the most boring form of mundane shit.
SOCIAL MIDIA MUNDANE SHIT.
like why should i care for someone calling the girl fake on internet?

>>150070383
is izzy an artist, though? I thought she was a reaction youtuber.

>>150070943
Yep. And it's a shame, a lot could be done if visual artists actually get humble and allow actual writers help 'em, but le my idea mentality keeps poisoning these projects. Look, needing a writer doesn't mean your work would be completely retold and your vision will be modified, it just means your ideas will be improved and better told for the audience.

>>150070652
quick, someone toss it on paheal

>>150069152 (OP)
I think the show should struggle so izzzyzz has to do onlyfans to fund it

>>150071081
It's tough to decide to bring on a writer when most people who proclaim to be animation writers fucking suck ass at it.
Have you seen the shit that "writers" pitch in threads here?

Hey Izzzy, I know you made that last thread and I know you’re in this one too, so here’s my pitch from one gen z’er to another for episode 2. Zoe spends the whole episode gooning her brains out while reading extremely graphic rapefics involving human men and unsuspecting anthro women. Afterwards she plays Neopets and doesn’t even bother to clean herself up

>>150070880
Establishing shot of the apartment complex. Everything looks gloomy and it looks like dark clouds are surrounding the skies. We hear the dog girl's voice. We cut to inside her bedroom. It's an anime NEET den. She is talking on the phone, "I understand. Listen we've been talking for a while now. I need some fresh air. We can talk later."

She hangs up the phone and climbs out her window to the fire escape. She takes a deep breath of "fresh air" and immediately starts coughing. The cat girl asks her, "Are you okay?" The dog girl yelps out of being startled, "Are you smoking again!?" "No way I quit when it stopped being cool. But the way my day has been going, I might as well start up again." She then tells her story about being powned by the cool teens. And also mentions how some random guy freaked out after the cool teens bought the last piece of merch from "Dark Moon Academy"

The dog girl then tries to cheer her up by talking about her bad day. We then hear the sounds of someone struggling to get through the front door while juggling a million things. The two girls investigate. They open the door and help their dishevelled bunny friend open the door and take some of the things she has been juggling. They ask her how her day has been. She acts like it's okay, but eventually breaks down and tells the story about her crummy day. The cat girl gets a ding notification on her phone* and smiles. She gets her friends to the roof of the building, and they see that the big Billboard company building is burning down.

*It's a news story about how a descrenteled fan of "Dark Moon Academy" (the anime merch from cat girl's storey) burned down the billboard company because, on top of not getting enough sleep do to construction, he also missed out on the merch drop and snapped.
>Part 2 of 2

>>150071422
holy shit, is there actually a character named Zoe? I made a crack in the last thread about how that's a common name for trans girls when someone called out "Alice", but I didn't realize there actually already was a Zoe.

>>150071516
Zoe is the dog girl med school drop out and she is not trans

>>150069152 (OP)
Give it the HGS treatment, where every female character has big tits. Maybe call it Las Lindas

>>150071641
For all we know, she might be

>>150072055
For all we know, you could be Bulgarian

>>150072055
Nah, we have Alice covering that role. And Moth covering the they/them role. i bet Zoe is lesbian or bisexual tho.

This is one of those watershed moments where the right person in the wrong time makes one too many of these sorts of art trends (slice of life alt-furry) and sets off a chain reaction of people realizing this thing is oversaturated and worth criticising in and of itself. So sadly while this is a competently produced short its going to get crucified with people who lump a bunch of critique at it that they're really trying to aim at all sorta queer cartoony internet furry projects.

Which sucks because the person who designed/did all the work for the short's artstyle is going to be associated with it when really its the youtuber writer who's the weak link here.

>>150072267
classic Zoe

>>150072186
I am. wtf.
Guess the system works.

>>150069168
Bait used to be believable

>>150072332
I don't know that this is really getting crucified. The comments on the actual video are generally pretty positive, and even some anons have had positive impressions. /co/ hates everything, so I don't think this place is an accurate representation of the general masses (and really, is it ever?)
Most people have praised the design/style elements, so I think Emily will be fine.
We'll probably get an episode 2 sometime in the next year or two, but we likely won't get an episode 3. That's just how it goes.

>>150072401
If you look at twitter/tumblr/reddit, any of the sites this thing is aiming to pander to, the reaction has been uncharacteristically critical. For once I think the /co/ users are more lenient than the rest of the internet.

>>150072460
If you happen to have links handy, I'd like to see. I don't really dig for this kind of shit, but anything that I've seen pop up across my personal social media feeds have been fairly positive

>>150069986
Is she a poser or the real deal?

>>150070652
Still waiting on those bullies
>>150072577
Idk are hot topic kids the real deal?

>>150072460
Most of the criticism i’ve seen are due to it being yet another “furry sitcom.” Seems most people’s ire is that we’ve got a ton of indie cartoons like this and this one in particular doesn’t do anything particular to stand out, let alone be actually good

>>150069152 (OP)
Pretty much everything I've seen discussing it is that it's pretty "meh". I really only have this place and xitter to go off of though, so that could be massively skewed.

I feel like the biggest issue is that this suffers greatly from "Life is Strange" writing, as pretty much everyone else has said. The whole focus on issues only tumblroids would care about seriously holds this back in a variety of ways. If the focus remains on "I was misgendered/called a normie/etc." with no other depth or substance or conflict it will stay boring and uninteresting.

This focus could perhaps be salvaged if the overarching story focuses more on the characters overcoming their various immature neuroses instead of wallowing in them, or perhaps on their lack of growing out of said neuroses and the consequences of that attitude worsening their lives, but I doubt it will be taken in that direction, if for no other reason than Izzy striking me as the type of person that would find a message of "shackling your entire personality and self-image on fragile bases like consumerism, nostalgia, grade-school clique culture and gender identity is bad and you should stop doing that" to be offensive/distateful

>>150069152 (OP)
On the other hand, how do you want to make shit taking place in current times and with current time issues without bringing up the trends? The trends are the entire fucking crux of society, you gotta bring them up as a problem eventually.

>>150072577
>>150072678
Hot Topic kids used to be the posers but it's become so common for people to be Hot Topic kids that at this point, posers have apparently become the modern day version of the real deal.
It's like if people use the word 'literally' in place of 'figuratively' often enough, they'll officially change the definition of the word. Fucking sucks.

>>150069733
Bernd what are you doing here?

>>150072723
>issues only teens would care about seriously

Fixed. Life is Strange still works for me since it gives you insight into a bullshit millenial teen mindset. Its like staring at a different culture.

>>150072723
>Life is Strange
Damn thats a name I haven't heard for a long while

>>150072723
>If the focus remains on "I was misgendered/called a normie/etc." with no other depth or substance or conflict it will stay boring and uninteresting.
The misgendering thing was a throwaway line, but I don't think you're supposed to identify with the character being devastated that she was called a normie. I think we're supposed to feel like she's being fucking ridiculous for being so overly dramatic about it and she's ludicrous for bragging about her Reddit karma as if that actually means anything. These characters are *supposed* to be pathetic.

>>150069152 (OP)
Not a fan of the square eyes, makes them look like they're wearing glasses. Unless thats the point, and why the rabbit's are different.

>>150070383
>>150071081
>a lot could be done if visual artists actually get humble and allow actual writers help 'em
The barrier to entry to being a "writer" is so fucking low that nearly everyone considers themselves one. Your cab driver probably thinks he's a fucking writer or the guy butchering meat at your grocery store probably thinks he's a writer. It can make it extremely difficult to find someone who actually knows what they're doing. I think it has less to do with being humble, and more to do with not knowing who can actually be trusted with those duties.
Even on places like /co/, most anons could probably name 5 good voice actors would would be accessible for an indie project like this, 5 good musicians, 5 good animators, but could they name 5 writers? Not just any writers, but writers who know what they're doing and have experience but aren't so big that they'd be inaccessible to a youtuber vanity project?

>>150072800
>why the rabbit's are different
because she's supposed to be the pretty character. That's a pretty common trope in animation. The pretty one gets to break design conventions.

>>150072759
Zoomers who are younger than the game keep bringing it up in their Youtube "essays", along LOU1, as parts of the woke cancer copy paste wave. However, all those games did was starting the "comic-like narrative focused games" trend many years before woke became a thing and lost its meaning, and also many years games where made as an excuse to present wokeness.
And even here, I think only LOU2 to this day had the balls to be actually woke as shit, while everyone else stops at "HOLY FUCK lesbians!". But hey, everyone thinks a girl protagonist is already woke because 90% of online posts are made by Pakistanis and bots, so whatever...

And yeah this is a /v/ post but games are the last thing you can discuss on /v/.

>>150072759
Zoomers who are younger than the game keep bringing it up in their Youtube "essays", along LOU1, as parts of the woke cancer copy paste wave. However, all those games did was starting the "comic-like narrative focused games" trend many years before woke became a thing and lost its meaning, and also many years before games where made as an excuse to present wokeness. I actually think Undertale kicked off all those pretentious woke indie games, not LOU or Life is Strange, and they were all shit in that regard (e.g. Celeste).
And even regarding that woke topic, I think only LOU2 to this day had the balls to go all the way, while everyone else stopped at "HOLY FUCK lesbians!". Also, if you've played Japanese games forever, trans and nonbinary characters appearing only makes you yawn at this point. That has been a JRPG or fighting game trope forever.

But hey, everyone thinks a girl protagonist is already woke because 90% of online posts are made by Pakistanis and bots, so whatever...
And yeah this is a /v/ post but games are the last thing you can discuss on /v/.

>>150072955
Oh yeah that's another problem. When i say "writer" i mean a professional, someone who actually studied for it. There are several individuals thinking writing mediocre ass fanfics makes 'em writers. But actual writers aren't helping animators 'cause animators actually actively would look for fanfic writers instead of people who studied to write actual literature.

...looking at you, Vivzie.

>>150073265
I think part of the problem is a lot of people who are attracted to the prospect of writing for animation really fucking suck at it, and the professionals who have actually studied it would prefer to write for something else (unless the budget was able to provide attractive compensation which, let's face it, most indie animations do not). Animators end up getting another animator to do it, a friend, or some fanfic writer because those people are super enthusiastic and willing to work on the project for some sweet sweet
E X P O S U R E

>>150073331
mom said it was my turn to post it

>>150073265
Fanfic writers? In Vivzie's case its fapfic writers. The characters either look like shit you'd find on shirts at a skater shop or every furry fapbait trope that comes up if you look for it. I have seen a billion characters like that wolf slut. Hell, she's not far off from Zig Zag.

>>150072539
https://x.com/ToonHive/status/1959682663494631546/quotes
The quotes on this tweet are almost all negative. Pretty much any tweet by a third party announcing it has people asking why they wasted time on yet another furry slice of life show and furries getting upset that people are pointing it out.

>>150073331
Not interested in a GF of a generation that finds 30 seconds of plot-related sex in a movie disgusting.

>>150072678
it will be out when its out

>>150069152 (OP)
The meme is im sure most people working on it are (or claim to be) atypical yet they all just default toward the same stuff
look at the big shots names in indie lately:
>Hazbo hotel: quirky gay characters BUT IN HELL
>Digital circus: quirky characters BUT IN DIGITAL HELL
so have those colorful, relatable quirky characters in a scenario that's not just...urbanite

familiarity breeds contempt so you either play safe with setting OR the cast; and with them all being furry bait there's already a natural incentive to work it out by having their animal characteristics help set things apart

im not a zoomer that can't focus on what i watch unless theres subway surfers footage playing along it so just have the video play on the background and i guarantee you won't find a single moment you feel compelled to switch tabs and actually watch what is going on (maybe when one mentions her underwear or just the very end)

>>150074160
And thats how we like it!

>>150074326
its just internet reference faggotry

>>150072794
Nta, but I then have to ask if they're suppose to be pathetic, what is the audience suppose to feel towards them?
>Moth is being a tard, so she's supposed to be laughed at. Sure, that makes sense.
>Zoe's problem seems more legitimate, but are we suppose to relate to her or laugh at her? Or both?
>Alice just had a bad day, but what's the joke? Again, are we suppose to feel sorry or laugh?
The pilot has them say very little and I'm not sure what kind of reaction they want us to have. I assume they were aiming for a "haha wow, that's so me!" reaction, which would probably work better if there was more to go off of. Maybe I'm just questioning something pretty basic in order to have something to talk about.

>>150069152 (OP)
>What would you add, change, or takeaway?
When the girl dog is talking about playing Neopets in her underwear, actually show her in her underwear. Other than that, everything stays the same.

I think Zoe would benefit character wise if she hadn't dropped out of college yet but is starting to reach that thought process

>>150075627
>are we suppose to relate to her or laugh at her? Or both?
I think both. It's 100% possible that the issues that each of the characters face in this episode are variations on stuff that actually happened in real life and in this episode the audience is supposed to both be able to relate but also laugh at the characters and, by extension, themselves. That ending where they all kind of commiserate and climb on top of the billboard while they watch the world burn is supposed to be the heartfelt relatable ending where a terrible day can be made better with friends.
I don't think the pilot QUITE hit the mark of relatable/awkward/funny, but I can also see what they were going for. I think the music really let this down. The writing and pacing could certainly be addressed, but I think the music could have done a better job of really building up the "jokes", pushing the extremes, and accenting some of the story beats. Example: The reveal of the mean girls should have been WAY more melodramatic. The wimpy organ kind of hinted at that, but it needed amping up. Then it just kind of grooved through the scene, but it should have intensified (maybe slowly rising in pitch or becoming more frantic) as the girls got meaner and meaner to help build tension so when they drop the "cringe" line, the music is at a fever pitch. Then drop the bottom out as the screen fades to black and focuses on how devastated the character is. It's a ridiculous scene with a pedantic "conflict", so leaning into that and really making it seem more dramatic would have helped make the joke land.
I think if the rest of the music was really amped up, they could have pulled a 180 and done something really sweet for the last scene. The end melody was good, but it was a bit much sound wise (could have dialed back some of the distortion) and needed something to humanize it. A single repeating note on an acoustic piano, sustained chords in a reed organ, or chunks on an acoustic guitar would have helped

>>150069152 (OP)
I think the focus of the plot should have been all three characters working together to get past an obstacle/conflict as opposed to taking turns talking about how bad their day was. I would also
>put away all the phones
viewers want a break from their phones
>give the wagie a more interesting bad job than being a cashier
workplace environments are good sources of conflict but shop cashier is limiting for storytelling purposes. If she has to be a cashier make her a cashier of someplace like a Waffle House, someplace that gets a lot of foot traffic from a wide variety of customers.
>drop out med student needs a very compelling reason to drop out
lots of people drop out because they are unhappy but that isn't necessarily interesting for a show and it makes you wonder where she is getting rent money from. This character could perhaps be torn between med school and a less prestigious job she enjoys or maybe she didn't drop out she got KICKED OUT and is lying to her parents saying it is her choice, she can't actually go back even if she wanted to.
>for max laugh potential the artist character should be a terrible artist
it's just funnier if she's bad at it

>>150076037
> put away all the phones
Unrealistic depiction of contemporary youth. People don’t look up from their phones to cross the street, go to the gym, or drive.
> drop out med student needs a very compelling reason to drop out
This was episode 1. They may be saving that
> the artist character should be a terrible artist
She might be. We don’t really know. We just have her friends telling her that she’s great, but friends are full of shit.

>>150072332
I don't think there's actually *that many* slice of life alt-furry cartoons but it does kind of feel that way. I think it's interesting how many people referenced Kitty Bobo, which was a pilot from the 90s. I think there is a genuine appetite for animated content aimed at urban 20-somethings that generally goes unmet which is why the subject matter keeps popping up again and again (imo the furry angle is just easy stylization for visual pop) so I don't think I can fault the pilot for it's choice of subject. It's just a matter if enough people want it enough and I get the impression that the entertainment landscape can support maybe one of these kinds of shows at a time, at best. If people think it's overdone I think they only feel that way because they've been exposed to so many similar unrealized projects. If one gets greenlit anyone else with a similar idea either needs to wait their turn or find a different story to share.

The visual craftsmanship is actually really nice so it's a shame it isn't resonating with more people, I can't say I cared for it myself.

>>150069152 (OP)
It had a lot of problems, though I'm glad to see indie animation in any form. The main complaints are:
> Having the characters recap their days instead of showing them was a bad choice and takes a lot of the enjoyment out. Imagine an episode of King of the Hill where Peggy comes home and tells Hank and Bobby some guy tried to correct her Spanish, then Hank goes: "And I met a weird fella." and then Bobby goes: "And I tried to talk to a girl." then the episode ends. Much less engaging then seeing it happen.
> Telling instead of showing. The Reddit stuff was surface level and cringe, the anxiety wasn't really shown, and the art student had no personality
> Art school is unrelatable. Only rich kids go there. Also it's not interesting in the same way Hollywood people making shows about Hollywood actors isn't interesting.
> It's a cartoon. You can do anything and go anywhere. Having them sit around and try to be witty in an apartment in a city is boring.
> The girls are boring and have boring lives.
> The problems of early twenty-somethings aren't engaging. Maybe give them things to deal with.
> Their personalities are flat. Back to Hank, Bobby, and Peggy. They're relatable real people but they also have things about them that are over the top, funny, and engaging and you can see how they would play off each other. These people give nothing except maybe they can all sit on the couch and watch TV together.
> The classic blunder of trying to make everyone an upper middle class intellectual because liberal people have to feel superior to everyone else.
> The jokes didn't go far enough. If what's her name is terminally online whatever she should've been trying to cancel the girls for some inane neo-pronoun tumblr notroversy or something

>>150076169
It's not episode 1, it's a pilot. Pilots are supposed to be exemplary of what to expect from a project and so they have more freedom with what they reveal.

>They may be saving that
they could have hinted at something to plant the seeds of mystery in the viewer's mind, I don't think the pilot accomplished that.
>She might be. We don’t really know.
Good opportunity for a cutaway showing off her shitty artwork in her room

>>150072539
I showed it to my Zoomer fiance who uses Tumblr and who's favorite shows are Owl House and Steven Universe and she hated it.

>>150072724
No they aren't baka. I could argue about this for probably too long, but I'll say this becomes immediately apparent when you look at any piece set in a different time where the trends are forgotten or just not interesting enough to be mentioned and somehow NEVER come up.

Like seriously, you think to right a thing set in CURRENT YEAR people need to sit around talking about Pop Culture?

>>150073265
Someone who went to school for writing is 100% the worst writer you could imagine.

>>150075819
Just adapting your actual life is almost always boring

>>150076169
It's a pilot. You don't have the luxury of another episode. You need to make it happen and sell your idea.

>>150076275
That’s arguably what most writing is

>>150076285
You should go to their YouTube and tell them that.

>>150070383
>used to be a competent writer
>wanted to make a comic
>don't work well with others
>eventually learned to draw
>forgot how to write
life isn't fair

>>150069152 (OP)
https://youtu.be/vl-tmYtHDEQ?t=4

>>150069152 (OP)
>he/them enby is the most annoying one
>mtf tranny the most feminine and polite one
what did izzzyzzz mean by this

Didn't Cartoon Network already give a furry sitcom a chance? And have to cancel it because of poor ratings? The demand for this sort of thing seems far smaller than insulated online furries would have you think.

>>150069152 (OP)
I am raping the rabbit.

>>150077510
well, this one was genuinely fun, and the poor ratings happened 'cause people were blinded by nostalgia, but yeah, this is a good example of both how this can work yet why it usually doesn't.

>>150077327
calling any character of this thing "annoying" is giving this too much credit, they all are boring, you can swap their roles and nothing would genuinely change.

>>150076546
Similar here.
>have lots of ideas
>no one to animate them
>learn to animate
>finally get around to making original ideas
>suddenly the ideas i had are all shitty and nothing new i think of is even worth making
welp

I appreciate the fact that the animation is all frame by frame, really nice compared to usual rigged stuff we get from works like this. Writing was...yea....

>im sorry they misgendered you
>no they called me cringe
Neither of these are things that anyone should panic about, yet somehow their generation has heart attacks over it. The softest generation ever.

West coast Art students only know how to write about their own problems.

>>150072724
the current topic trends were not my problem with the pilot. the problem is that the joke starts and ends at "this trend exists". there is literally nothing wrong with referencing things.
over half of the exposition with the they/them cat was about how she browsed reddit. this was also made worse with the incredibly awkward pauses between lines. TADC has this issue too and i hate it

>>150078262
It's similar to how Hollywood fucks just write about publicity/marketing guys and their personal problems (their "friends" don't recognize their efforts), completely detached of actual life.

>>150072724
The Simpsons live in a world where everyone spends most of their free time watching TV, but 95% of the show is about watching the Simpsons do stuff other than watch TV, and most of the episodes are about something other than TV. There's a lot of little incidental stuff, like opening the episode with them watching TV before moving on quickly to something else, but they don't dwell on TV that much. (And the Simpsons dwells on TV a lot more than many other shows)

I'm not explaining very well, but you want to focus on people doing interesting stuff. 95% of what's happening out there in the world isn't interesting, and if you can't make it interesting you should avoid it, and if you can't avoid it you should quickly introduce and skip over it to get to the good stuff.

>>150076275
The thing is, she's not even adapting her own life
Like all of these recent "hehe being an adult stinks XD" pitches are by ecelebs that have years and years of art experience and put together a pilot! Have you? I sure haven't. That's not something a real 20-something loser can manage. They make stories about people even less skilled and with even less direction than the authors themselves and want it to get picked up into a series, it doesn't make any sense. Like even if it doesn't work out for them in the long term I'd rather see a show about 20-somethings chasing something and failing than having no dream or goal at all.

>>150078473
>I'd rather see a show about 20-somethings chasing something and failing than having no dream or goal at all.
It's so miserable watching this, noticing the lack of genuine goals, and check out the comments saying "they're so me!" like please, if you relate to these characters, go get some help, and fix your damn life.

If there's something i appreciate about this thing, is how it opened this discussion about animation Vs. writing, and how important writing is for the medium, doesn't matter how good your animation and art direction are, with no good writing it would give you just a vapid empty experience just NPCs with no life could "relate" to.

Remember, before animating your ideas, write them down and develop them further, make a story, not a collection of meaningless vignettes, give your characters more than just archetypal tropes for their personalities.
WRITE YOUR SHIT DOWN.

>>150078197
That’s the joke you fucking moron.

Guys, are we anti-art if we don't like this?

>>150078854
Are you kidding? /co/ is chock full of story tags. All anyone ever talks about with any show discussion is the writing.

>>150079048
i'm talking in general, not just /co/.
Specially referring to places that usually neglect talking about writing, like Youtube and Xwitter. Seeing people actually observing the (lack of) writing on this thing in other platforms is oddly refreshing.

>>150079044
Ah yes the anti-art act of being critical about media consumption.
For people like this we get these indie clone.

>>150069152 (OP)
It needs a connection to higher concepts and more meaningful character relationships/themes, and it needs more fun too. The pilot gets lost in parts of the characters that are pretty unimportant (their jobs and petty personal issues) but when it comes to expressing their personalities and deeper struggles, there's not too much of it and it's pretty basic. I view octopus pie as the example for how to do this genre "right," the main comic ended almost 10 years ago but it doesn't feel dated because it's always able to form the plots into something timeless, whether that's a deeper human emotions/relationships or just fun. The references to reddit and the character's jobs give me the impression that this will be dated before long because it's focused on those petty struggles so much more than the stuff that matters. It does seem like there's something more to these characters with the dog dropping out and the rabbits art ambitions, just have to wait and see if they know how to handle that.

That Helluva Boss animator who’s making a show about a barista fox girl is probably panicking right now

>>150079107
I think it’s far less common for people to give a shit about the actual animation. I’d find it more refreshing if people could actually talk about the artistic aspects and movement itself outside of the story context.

>>150079234
THAT show is going to suck ass. I’ve been calling it since it was teased. It just looks awful.

>>150079044
The art community is a hivemind now after AI is threating them Gotta huddled up and scare the AI away with mean words like Clankers

>>150079302
>>150079234
What's the name?

>>150079001
That's not a joke, it's literally said and taken at face value.

>>150079140
>>150079310
You're literally not the target audience for it you fucking chuds, sit down and let queer furries enjoy things

>>150076037
>all three characters working together to get past an obstacle/conflict
GAY

>>150079572
>le bait

>>150079302
That “show” is really just a side hustle for the animator to get money from furries with poor impulse control. It has two animated shorts and they’re both just plushy ads, nothing else
>>150079317
Other Side by Animatedmau

>>150079310
>with mean words like Clankers
need a safe space, snowflake?

>>150079310
>clanker
It's an upgrade from toasterfucker, desu.

>>150079234
>>150079906
>barista fox girl
I'm surprised there not a lot of works about workers in fast food franchises (Mr Meaty?) or Baristas in coffeeshops.

Look man I'm just going to say it. EVERY indie pilot, big and small, has the exact same writing style now and no amount of unique animation or furrybait designs will get rid of this core, FUNDAMENTAL issue with the genre. We all know this is the problem, Hell I bet the animators themselves are aware. They need to sit the fuck down at a round table reading, go through the script together and ask if it sounds cringe instead of this current retarded pipeline where everything is a disjointed conversation. Stop ignoring the biggest culprit, learn to convey dialogue in a manner that doesn't make me want to skip any scene where the characters flap their gums.

>>150069152 (OP)
>student loans, adulting, heckin capitalism and I'm also non binary btw!
There is no way to fix this shit.

>>150069152 (OP)
Pretty much sums it up. One of animation's greatest strengths is being able to express itself in ways live action cannot. I don't think the pilot takes full advantage of that. But it has a lot of potential.

>"Have you seen that new furry show?"
>"Wastelandia? Yeah, apparently it’s slice of life!"
>"Well after watching it, I want my slice back!"
>"DOHOHOHOHOHO"

>>150077510
At least wastelandia has better hot furry female chicks

>>150069152 (OP)
Why would we tell you , yzzzyy are you going to pay us?

ARE YOU ACTUALLY GOING TO APPLY OUR FEEDBACK? That'd be a premiere.

I really don't understand why people keep asking for feedback if they refuse to apply it
Or ye know they suck complete dick at applying it
and they refuse to hire you as a writer because then we run into another problem...

"I don't want to be a nepotistic executive producer like Hollywood where other people write for me and I get the money" OH IF ONLY THAT WAS TRUE.
2010 EXECUTIVES DON'T EVEN ALLOW COMPETENT PEOPLE TO WRITE FOR THEM. They feel like "you'll take their place" but you are 100% free to get paid to be their typewriter monkey by taking over 200 "I want you to write it good but keep all my dogshit ideas in it. I'LL PAY YOU." what's the point of attempting to "write good" if you'll just sabotage the talented writer with your dogshit ideas, writing practices, form of storytelling that bores everyone to death and destroy pacing/story structure?

>The peach rabbit is an extroverted, optimistic smiling happy go lucky character
>Shows her whining about her painting getting ruined by missing her bus and getting caught in the rain
And if you attempt to actually write her like a Wander Over Yonder suddenly "She's TOO HAPPY NOW, she's too 1 dimensionally HAPPY NOW" yeah that's what your bio said, fucknugget. Do you want to be happy or depressed? figure it out and stop contradicting yourself and sabotaging my writing you piece of shit executive.


Watch as nobody screencaps and sends this to the creator cause nobody actually cares what the 0.01% of 4chan has to say, let alone the creator giving a shit what others have to say.

Here's a writer >>150071495 , I bet none on the team even know what descrenteled means or how to apply it.

You're welcome, fucknugget creator.
>Pls stop calling me fucknugget
No, you fucknugget. You deserve a writer that calls you fucknugget every day because you know what you get from bootlickers? >>150071422 that's what you get from bootlickers.

Yeah here's a writer: >>150071495

>>150069152 (OP)
It's an easy fix, Remove all the reddit references, Find someone actually funny to write the jokes

The tweet preview with people arguing about how shit the pilot is has more views than the actual pilot lmao

>>150080428
I'm all for shaming AI slop. Fuck this shit.
If humans made stuff that AI made people would rip it to shreds, but for some reason everyone claps for the bullshit that AI spits out because it doesn't have THAT many fuckups and can successfully look generic as fuck.
One thing that Wastelandia definitely has going for it is very personable yet heavily stylized design elements. Kudos to Emily Zullo for creating something that feels distinct and personable.

>>150081887
>That'd be a premiere
Are you a bot, ESL using a shoddy translation service, or a kid using a thesaurus in an effort to sound smarter? The use of premiere in this case is extremely odd and not at all idiomatic.

Honestly there isnt anything really wrong with the project. It just needs to punch up its writing as the characters are lacking, but not annoying, which is a far easier problem to address than pilots who have inherently hateable characters with bland artstyles (looking at you Pain Girl and Plinko). I could easily see this being a hyperfixation for zoomers and I mean that kindly

>>150079044
It's really fucking pathetic to pull this card when in reality these shows are just not very funny and won't even appeal to anyone that isn't some sort of redditor

>>150073377
>https://x.com/ToonHive/status/1959682663494631546/quotes
seeing all the hate for a cartoon about the typical annoying bitches in my College makes me pretty happy. Honestly I feel like /co/ was a lot nicer to it

the moment i saw that art style i knew there would be some tranny in it

>>150083959
>It just needs to punch up its writing
AND post production. The sound was absolute dogshit in this and anyone with even passing understanding of how audio works should have been able to mix this better. It was both difficult to hear at times as well as ice picks in the ears at others. Congratulations to whoever did final mix on completely fucking biffing the basic job. Was this mixed through their laptop speakers or something?
And if we're getting greedy, the acting needs to be better too.
Honestly, I think the animation and design elements are the best parts of this. I think it LOOKS nice, but it doesn't sound or feel that way.

>>150079234
You know, it has that same stock design for the main character ...but at least Mau can draw snouts! ...sorta :/
Also, unlike Wastelandia - only the main character is a stock design. The others are unremarkable (With the exact same body types and similar features) but at least they aren't giving me OC deja-vu.

>>150083959
>not annoying
They are incredibly annoying. The whole pilot was them ranting about absolutely normal daily life shit, not unique in any way, then crying about misgendering and whatnot. This is like a 6th grader should be able to handle level of event, not a fully grown adult in college. None of them do anything unique or interesting in the pilot.

>>150084234
I have tranny fatigue, They thought "Sorry they misgendered you" was good dialogue that people wanna see in a comedy

>>150081728
First of all, wrong, and second,
>female

>>150084397
I looked up "Plinko and Mark".
I really like the style but the main character looks completely out of place and; I agree, he's fucking infuriating. He's like the personification of a bad Spongebob episode.
Also
>Look up Pain Girl
>It's about evil Lisa Simpson

>>150084109
>Honestly I feel like /co/ was a lot nicer to it
we've been more critical, still negative, but at least giving fair points. Some faggots on Xwitter are just hating this 'cause other are hating it too.
Xwitter has no value for constructive criticism, or criticism at all, of any discussion.

>>150084736
>It's about evil Lisa Simpson
You're mixing the character, the actual evil one isn't the one who looks like Lisa (and it's dumb as fuck too). But i see your point.
Too much indie pilots today go for a simple premise, but don't elaborate further.

Is there a list of these indie furfag sitcoms from the last few years?
>the convenience store one with the two-headed cat guy
>LS Mark cartoon
>Brooklyn Broke the Universe
>that one from some of the vivziepop animators
>Wastelandia
That's just off the top of my head but I know there's plenty more

>>150069152 (OP)
>forgettable writing that tries to ape current modern trends to its detriment
I didn't think it was particularly bad for a pilot but it only did enough to establish basic facts about the characters. Not bad, especially for what I'd imagine is a slice of life show, but not exciting.
>What would you add, change, or takeaway?
Probably focus on an actual plot to the episode that would do some exposition for the characters. Maybe focus on the original "cringe" story, and follow that to connect to the other characters. The biggest "fault" was more that it was characters recounting their day rather than us actually seeing it.
I think it can be improved upon, so I still think it's worth following.

i don't support indie media just 'cause it's indie.
if i support any indie project it's 'cause it's actually good. Picrel.

>>150088089
Anytime I hear about this, it’s about how good it is. But that’s assuming I ever hear about it which, outside of this godforsaken board, is basically never

>>150086718
What are we defining as furry?

>>150088273
form your own opinin then.

>>150088499
opinion*

>>150079574
Pooners don't deserve anything

>>150088089
Based Sublo and tangy mustard poster. Katy is one of the few girl failures í actually like

>>150086718
> the convenience store one with the two-headed cat guy
The cute dog girl, yeah it was pretty good

>>150069152 (OP)
I think the only big problem is the dumbass modern brainrot tendency to call it "pilot". It's a short about a few characters comparing the bad days they had, no need to treat it as a "pilot" and cause all the expectations of "ok how does this spin off into a series" etc

>>150079044
i think most of it is just bland, i like more action oriented stuff

>>150079310
>the art community is a hivemind
this also happens with the entire gaming landscape,
wouldnt be too far off in any other creative community

>>150069152 (OP)
the writing is absolutely abysmal what the fuck
OP could not be more of a faggot

>>150081728
retard, please

>>150088794
Do you think OP is saying the writing is good?

I know none of y'all can't draw for shit. But I request of Anon and Zoe sleeping together in Zoe bed

>>150089192
giving it way too much credit, that's for sure

LET'S SEE YOU MAKE SOMETHING BETTER THEN YOU COCKSUCKER FUCK YOU WHAT THEF UCK IS WRONG WITH YOYUI

>>150089277
i don't need to be a gourmet chef to tell your food is ass.

>>150089277
cool bait but you should still take your meds

>>150069152 (OP)
I'm so tired of dykes.

>>150089512
Trannies*

>>150089277
take your pills

>>150071079
she wanted to go to SVA but had to settle for some New Zealand art school. she probably does YouTube for the bills but animation is what she's passionate about.

>>150071422
it's at least a good premise for some art or some fanfics. this does seem like the type of thing someone in her position would do after hitting real girlfailure hours.

>>150072267
If I were to guess, I think Zoe is bi but will primarily pursue women

Why do I have a feeling this might end up like HGS?

>>150072678
I can't tell yet if Courtenay is supposed to be a bitch (heh) or not. My assumption based on her art and the introduction given is that she'll be antagonistic to Zoe but perceived as perfect (hence the halo that also looks like devil horns). However, I don't know if that antagonism will also just be an outgrowth of Zoe's personal insecurities and that Courtenay actually thinks highly of her sister or believes that she has a positive relationship with her.

>>150078262
the cartoon feels very East Coast, especially since former SVA students worked on it.

>>150090545
i keep seeing this comparison, and it's so forced. This is just a indie short. HGS was an entire series, with Crunchyroll backing it up. It had like a x10 bigger staff and budget than Wastelandia.

...and it was more interesting 'cause how of a massive failure it was. Wastelandia just has a solid art direction, but besides that, it's kinda forgettable. HGS is fascinating, as EVERYTHING goes wrong on it, sucking so much it becomes actually entertaining, but 'cause it's fun to see how much it sucks. Heck, even the way HGS's audio mixing sucks (Slimeboy's mic being the biggest culprit), it's ultimately fun. Wastelandia's bad audio mixing is genuinely annoying.

>>150072678
ATREIDES?!?!?!

E RUDHI DINA, HESHIDHANII: NE LISAAN AL-GAYIB! RUYI DIMALA RUK ASHIDHGIM!

>>150079044
This reminds me of Amber Heard's expert witness of psychiatry who said the Judge was explicitly condemning the entire concept of modern medicine if he didn't accept his diagnosing Johnny Depp's mental state from watching Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

>>150090629
I mean Wastelandia could end up having an unironic fanbase on /co/ like this thread >>150072587

>>150090629
>Wastelandia's bad audio mixing is genuinely annoying
this

>>150084699
Post the whole thing faggot. I refuse to coom to half a boob

>>150090719
and as i said, HGS is genuinely fascinating. Wastelandia doesn't have the meat and bone to get any attention beyond the first impression.
i assure you, you won't see much of this thing in a near future unless Izzzyzzz actually does something worthy with her IP. But as for now, even these threads are struggling to keep any attention.

>this gets a legit following on /co/
>izzzy makes video essay titled “How My OCs Became 4Chan S*x Symbols”

>>150091049
lmao
But it's kinda sad that her animation pilot got fewer views than her usual video

>>150089195
https://files.catbox.moe/67xnyp.png
maybe someone else can color because I am way too tired right now

>>150091049
That reminds me. I wonder how failed creators feel that their legacy is rule 34 of their hot character designs from their failed IPs. It's like watching your homeless daughters become prostitutes.

>>150091377
Speaking as one? All the days spent daydreaming of something, putting in the long grueling hours far into the night and days off, all the sacrifices made to make even more time to actually make something you care about, to see it all amount to a bunch of fetish freaks running a train on something you've formed an entangled mental link with?

Yeah, feels like pic related.

>>150091183
Ahh, thats cute anon

>>150091049
lol i'd watch it though

>>150069168
Lolol

>>150086718
>forgetting mammal squad

>>150086718
Should I take this as a sign that my idea is bad and overdone and that the market is oversaturated, or take it as a sign that there's massive demand but that nobody's found the right formula yet and it could always be me?

>>150093884
Take it as a sign that /co/ is filled with idiots who will complain about anything and there is absolutely no way of pleasing them so don't bother trying to cater to them. The people who bitch the loudest don't actually make anything.
If you have the passion to make something, just make it and let the chips fall where they may. You'll find your audience.

>>150093884
a little of both

>>150093884
It's the latter but if you fuck it up I'm going to come kill you. Them's the breaks.
Honestly, the *actual* solution is to contact the man who goes back in time to found Sneedville and get him to (somehow) ensure that Kitty Bobo made by CN.
I don't want to dislodge KND but I'd be willing to push that button.
If he's already gone, get someone to raid his house and see if we can make another one.

>>150072678
WHO
THE
FUCK
NAMES
THEIR
DAUGHTER
ATREIDES?????????????

>>150095915
I mean have you seen Gen Z names?

>>150095915
Dunefags post the 2020s movies

>>150095915
I bet its a fake name she uses to sound cooler

>>150096600
adopting this headcanon. the whole trio use fake names.

>>150086718
does this count?
https://youtu.be/sZOcugdk_KU?si=cjQJgpDlqlMPIjQK

>>150096690
So what are their real names, if thats the case then?

>>150096600
>>150096690
Transphobia isn't okay

>>150097090
Im being name-a-phobic broster, get on my level

>>150097090
gonna deadname you given any chance.

>>150097009
Natalie, Amelia, Anne

>>150091183
I tried
https://files.catbox.moe/u8uwhw.png

>>150097767
>that subtle texture shading
nice work, really helps keep the flat look while giving her fat ass some definition

>>150069986
>derr girl
>antlers
captcha: agp2x

>>150098145
she’s a reindeer