Thread 150157222

But...why?

>>150157222 (OP)
it was the style at the time

the New 52 was good and im tired of oldfags crying otherwise.

>>150157508
It was shit. Voodoo headlined a book. Nobody cares about Voodoo.

>>150157525
>52 new books many of which are not just capeshit
>some heroes who before got no spotlight suddenly headlining their own books and actually matter for once
>ACTUALLY different takes on characters instead of the usual fare
I'm not gonna say I liked every single book or interpretation of a character but at least it actually did something different for once. Comic companies constantly advertise that theyre gonna do something different only to do the same shit. Comics should actually do new things sometimes even if risking upsetting dug in readers

Dan Didio former owner of the DC Didiodome just doing Dan Didio decisions

>>150157222 (OP)
>You now remember when Cyborg was treated as an essential JL member

>>150157508
>oldfags
There are 20 somethings on comic twitter
There are people younger than 20 on comic twitter who know more about capeshit than almost anyone here on this forsaken board
News flash, they don't like the New 52

>>150157637
>There are 20 somethings on comic twitter
>There are people younger than 20 on comic twitter who know more about capeshit than almost anyone here on this forsaken board
i bet neither of them buy comics though

they should have let Morrison and Johns finish their Batman and Green Lantern runs but it was otherwise a pretty bold decision I respect even if it fucked up a lot of things

the biggest fuck ups were mostly how half hearted of a reboot it was
trying to condense 4 robins into 6 years is really REALLY stupid

>>150157508
It gave us proto-MAWS Supergirl

>>150157945
Miles gets all the white pussy its not fair

>>150157525
Man I forgot about that.

>>150157222 (OP)
The New 52 was the only initiative that had any success and got a ton of people into comics. Especially when compared to Afterbirth, Dark Age of Heroes, Shitfinite Frontiter, Yawn of DC and DC Balls In. The New 52 is leagues above all this shit initiatives in terms of story and sales!

>>150158136
>and got a ton of people into comics
Not true.

>>150157222 (OP)
Because Bruce Wayne wasn't Batman anymore and DC panicked so they fucked their entire line just to put the cowl back on Bruce.

>>150158318
Bruce had been back for like a year or more by then

>>150157222 (OP)

Dan Didio was about to be fired and he rushed out a big mega-reboot to keep his job.
In some other timeline Didio was fired, Nu52 never happened, and DC comics had a new golden age that's still ongoing.

>>150157222 (OP)
Because Wonder Woman needed pants, I guess.

It had some alright books in there (I remember liking Animal Man, Demon Knights, and a few others) but statistically it had to, launching 52 fucking new books at once was overall a retarded idea.

>>150158363

Yes, but Bruce was Batman in Batman Inc. and Streets of Gotham after his return. While Dick was the main Batman in Batman, Detective Comics, Batman and Robin, Justice League, and Gates of Gotham until the Reboot.

>>150157508
I liked it too

>>150158017
whats wrong with this? looks hot

>>150159081
I agree, it was just too much, especially since this was a grab at the attention of casuals. How many books should it have been?

>>150157222 (OP)
dan didio wanted to do something to generate hype and sales. nobody said no.

>>150158275
It did, most didn't stick because they immediately began undoing the New 52 to continuity before destroying it with Afterbirth.

>>150157222 (OP)
Dial H was the only good comic to come about this era.

>>150157222 (OP)
Didio is both retarded and conceited. Like every fucking corpo faggot.

>>150159326
If it had to be a total reboot, I guess around 20-30? A bunch of the titles just felt like padding to get to that 52 number

>>150157574
>>150158406
>>150159366
>>150159619
I don't know why people blame Didio for this when it was all Jim Lee and Bob Harras.
I guess some people are more convenient scapegoats than others.

Brightest Day had set up a line wide refresh. if you read Brightest Day you see that they brought back a lot of heroes from the dead e.g. Aquaman (some cut White Lanterns included Animal Man) and Brightest Day ended with Swamp Thing and Constantine appearing. They were putting Vertigo, Wildstorm into the DC main universe. (Marvel did some line refreshes in the 2010s too.)

Didio got the idea to, at the last minute, turn this post Brightest Day refresh into a reboot. But obviously it wasn't a full reboot:
>Grant Morrison's Batman continued in Batman Inc, Geoff Johns' Green Lantern series continued, Batwoman etc, all continued.
>Other stories were changed and adapted, originally Scott Snyder's Court of Owls was a Dickbats story converted to Bruce Wayne, hence why the story has Lincoln Marsh be very Bruce like and how the Talon was connected to the Flying Graysons circus.
>Other stories were just planned already, Johns Aquaman for instance, because Aquaman was brought back in Brightest Day, the aforementioned Swamp Thing too.
So really like half the titles almost feel like nothing much had really changed. But then the main titles were rushed out and ended up without decent continuity because of the:
>Pretty much every thing happened in the past five years.
>No consistency between lines, Wonder Woman's solo series was nothing like her appearances in Justice League.

So most of the main books they rushed out happened to be the weaker books. The Forever Evil event was alright, the Rogues title was pretty much Final Crisis Rogues Revenge 2.0, but the stuff with Question, Pandora and that was eh. Books like Green Arrow were awful, they even added some Arrow type stuff into it but the Jeff Lemire stuff was okay. Dial H and stuff like that was different and fun but most of them ended up cancelled. But weirdly a bunch of people are nostalgic for this era because they did get a few mentions in wider media and people liked mainstream blockbuster titles like Snyder's Batman.

>>150159773
>I don't know why people blame Didio for this when it was all Jim Lee and Bob Harras.
Because a LOT of the New 52 changes seemed to fit stuff that Didio didn't like, characters like Stephanie Brown, Wally West and others vanishing or Babs getting out the wheelchair.

>>150157222 (OP)
It was a good idea to reboot with aged-down heroes, but they should've committed to it by decanonizing vast swaths of
The 2000s were defined by DC chasing the Ultimate universe and the New 52 was the pinnacle of that desperation. If you want an Ultimate universe, you need to be willing to start from scratch like it.
And now they've swung around to doing the opposite thing, making everything canon. Hypercrisis bros, we won. But there doesn't seem to be any real editorial constraints or vision behind it. Books are constantly relaunched for seemingly no reason and creative teams are now practically encouraged to contradict eachother as they become more online alongside the fanbase. This is built to fail. How long until the next sales collapse? Then what revamp will they pull out their asses? Morrison could've saved you all you fools...

>>150159601
I hate Bolland's art when it's digitally colored. It just doesn't work. If the whole book looks like this, remind me to never read it.

>>150159941
he just did the covers
its good read it faggot

>>150159773
Didio always took full credit for it https://www.polygon.com/comics/22679756/dc-comics-reboot-new-52-writers-oral-history/
>The origin [of the New 52] comes from a couple of places. First things first: We had a change in management. We had Diane Nelson coming in [as DC’s new president]. And she really wanted to challenge us and really to make an impression and a statement. So we needed to make a statement. That’s part one.

>Part two was the market was extraordinarily soft. Our numbers were off by double digits — I want to say 30 to 40 percent, some big number from what it was from the previous year — and trade sales were slowing down, and periodical sales were slowing down. It wasn’t just DC; it was the whole marketplace.

>From the moment I started at DC [...] I was always trying to get to that spot where we can sort of restart the wheel and really create this entry point for everybody to jump on, and contemporize our characters.

>Marvel had such success with [Miles Morales and the Ultimate line], and I kept on pointing to that. I thought to myself, We needed that. I tried a couple of times — the All-Star line was supposed to be a shot at that, the Earth One books were supposed to be shot at that. They were good as stand-alone concepts, and we got some great work from that, but it didn’t drive a line. And ultimately, the only way it works is if you drive the cohesiveness of the line. We were doing it piecemeal, but to really make an impression, to really catch the attention of the marketplace, you had to do something dramatic. And ultimately, that’s what turned into the New 52.

>>150158017
Man I feel so bad for Ron Marz. Imaging headlining Green Lantern to this.

Too many launch titles.

>>150160368
Voodoo was fun and he had fun doing it. DC ruined it by firing him and filing off the edges, making evil Voodoo an alien clone of the real heroic Voodoo.

>>150160001
guys like shane davis and evs have talked about dan didio and new 52. it was heavily pushed and developed by him in their words and they are quite fond of dan and praise him compared to other people theyve worked with at dc. jim lee was on board for the push and doign designs and potential money for all its use in toys, marketing, movies, etc though. but it was very much didios new 52 from conception.

>>150157222 (OP)
It's an idea a moron would have and it's astonishing that a big company actually tried it.

>>150160501
Anon, you haven't been paying attention to le big company ideas for the past two decades.

>>150159941
When's the last time he drew interiors?

Is it a plot hole that the faster The Flash moves time dilation would cause his time to be slower compared to everyone else's, causing him to travel into the future whenever he ran super fast?

>>150157525
I like Voodoo, is anyone was going to carry the XTREME titles of Wildstorm, Grifter and Voodoo were good choices. Would I have liked Zealot? Bloodstrike? other Image Xmen clones? Yeah. But those were fine except for this shitty writing and setting that doesn't benefit them in DC. They needed a Vertigo spin off

>>150157222 (OP)
because fuck you

>>150160450
Gay.

>>150159220
Dickbats was the last time Batman was even slightly good.

>>150159399
The numbers and analysis from comichron don't support your point. They basically said that N52 grab the attentions of the Marvel/Indie only reader to DC for the launch month and the steadily lose them.

>>150157222 (OP)
Posers Don't know but this is THE FIRST comics continuity where Batman and Superman are actual members of Justice League/Society, not "honorary" cover baits or ONE panel/frame appearance

>>150157945
Funny because in New52 in Lobdell run Kara is racist towards clones, she calls Superboy Kon all the time which is the same as the nagger word

>>150157689
>how half hearted of a reboot it was
This is what murdered James Gunn's DCU, one of major things

>>150160450
>half the population
No wonder this dishonest thing hates Zack Snyder
The wicked feared the Truth since the beginning.

>>150156738
>copycat thread outlives original thread
But...why?

>>150164921
Batman and Superman are both full members in Morrison's run

>>150165169
Morrison's run isn't the beginning , therefore never counts. Just like Crisis stories-crossovers of JSA/JLA

>>150165080
Same way how Superman is much more popular than Gladiator 1930 and Star Wars is more popular than Superman, Dune, Flash Gordon and Rebel Moon is more popular than Star Wars and Warhammer

>>150157222 (OP)
the biggest problem with The New 52 was that they didn't properly reboot everything, they tried to partially keep around some of the prior continuity around for the Bat and Lantern books and it fucked everything up into an inconsistent mess, if they had properly hard rebooted everything from square one it could have been something great

>>150165638
Same "problem" as COIE

Total Poserdroid Eradication btw

>>150157508
Based. Spbp.

>>150157508
True.
It's funny how people who started reading comics after COIE always complain about the New 52, even though it was much more consistent and had a unified vision. I personally know a few folks who said they found DC "hard to get into" before New 52, but they all started reading it when it came out and enjoyed it more often than not. It was a great entry point, and if DiDio and the other execs had been more patient and allowed the writers to be more creative, there would have been fewer haters online.

>>150157222 (OP)
because dan didio hate DC Comics

>>150166101
New52 was murdered by making Wally West anagramed and Alan Scott fucking gay

Also only SnyderVerse and DCEU derived from its core is really unified
Or revert Aquaman Before Silver Age reboot . Can't have it both.

Speed Force is also derived from the Why of original Superman lore Super-powers

>>150166101
>even though it was much more consistent and had a unified vision
It failed hard specifically because it was neither of those things. They didn't have the balls to do a full reboot so everything ended up being half-measures that nobody could keep track of behind the scenes. They wanted it both ways and got neither, which is why they finally gave up and did Rebirth only five years later.

Crashing the sales charts....with no survivors

>>150157222 (OP)
Why what?

>>150157525
>Giving smaller characters comics is bad! Everything should be Batman!

Is Booster Gold now Canadian after his origin reboot in their Justice League International or what? I literally have no idea what's canon anymore due to this stupid fucking stunt.

Every other line was about how everyone was younger and more dangerous. It felt like an old dude living out his midlife crisis in print.

>>150167832
it improved sales

>>150168065
And other lies we tell ourselves

>>150158318
I love that cover so much.

>>150167795
From https://www.polygon.com/comics/22679756/dc-comics-reboot-new-52-writers-oral-history/
>Daniel Wilson Writer on the New 52 titles Earth 2: World’s End, Earth 2: Society

>I had a lot of characters to deal with, so I put together a big spreadsheet. I had basically the whole thing planned out — the major beats of what I wanted to do and how I wanted to separate everything. So I went to New York City, I met [former DC publisher] Paul Levitz, and I sort of just had this immediate reality check where Paul was like, “No, like, that’s not how you do comics, man.” I’m like, “Well, how else are we going to do it? Because there’s so much I need to just lay this out,” and he’s like, “No, no, we’ll just figure it out issue to issue.”

> [I said] “I’m really not comfortable doing that, Paul, and I’m the showrunner. So I kind of want to do it this way. Also, I’ve been working on this for months to figure it out.” Paul was like, “‘That’s cool. I wish you luck. I’m out.” It wasn’t emotional or anything. He was just, “That’s really not what I signed up for,” and I totally got it. Later, I was like, “You know what? He was right.” It wasn’t what I expected. I managed to make it work, but definitely, Paul was totally right. Everything evolved on the fly, as you go, and I had to adapt to that.

Even though I don't like most of the comics they're doing now, the current approach is the right one. There's just no way to keep things consisten when you're dealing with so many editors and writers over a period of years. Marvel just papers over its flubs.

>>150168065
A small bump followed by a hard crash.

>>150168539
Ultimate BvS singlehandedly saved DC comics sales

>>150168573
Movies have never been a factor, that was just the Rebirth bump followed by stagnation which led to the 5G dead end.

>>150168573
true!

>>150168539
what happened from 94 to 97?

>>150169240
They don't have info for it

Marvel decided to buy out Heroes World to have their own books distributed themselves which made it hard to track Marvel for a while till they came back to Diamond around late 1996

>>150157508
>the New 52 was good
FUCK no.

>>150157648
They probably bought more comics than the New 52 fans

>>150162250
Bloodstrike wasn't Wildstorm

>>150159601
aquaman and wonder woman where good too

>>150165197
What the fuck does that matter? You said "new 52 was the first continuity where Superman and Batman were full members." That's not a true statement. They were full members beginning in Grant Morrison's run, which led into Waid's run.

>>150159220
Thats not true, Bruce was back in Tec and B&R before the new 52

>>150158406
No, Warner installed Diane Nelson who told them to do it otherwise they were going to shutter DC and license the characters out.

>>150170084
Because it's an afterthought. Post-Crisis JL starts with only Batman somewhat around.
Someone down the line will always create anything.

>>150170221
>a decade long lineup is an afterthought

You're a fucking moron.

>>150170376
A decade is an afterthought in the world of comic books.

>>150164921
Did you even read Silver Age Justice League of America because Superman and Batman were actual members there

>>150170221
>Post-Crisis JL starts with only Batman somewhat around.

He was still a member. Even when the book changed name from Justice League International to Justice League America he showed up from time to time. He was even in Justice League Europe for a short time.

Superman was also a member of the Justice League post-JLI all the way to his death from fighting Doomsday

>>150168539
Oof

>>150168539
Yeah, Rebirth crashed sales and they haven't recovered since.

>>150168501
From how this guy describes writing it, it seems like he was dumb expecting Paul Levitz to give him complete control over these characters and that other writers wouldn't also use them. But I guess TV is different that way. But also how did Levitz not figure that out either. The timeline presented by this paragraph seems screwy.
I mean certain events and the whole publishing line being planned to some degree is good because that's what led to COIE in the first place because before hand nobody knew their characters anymore from all these details of when certain events happened in their lives and desire for deeper storytelling necessitated concrete details and continuity.
How else do these stories happen? I mean I don't need a crisis event everytime somebody forgets that one character is one place at a certain time and then appears somewhere else at that same time but I dunno some planning for events or major continuity happenings is needed.
Issue to issue works if writers are willing to talk and say to each other hey, I'm using that character and we can figure out a way to both use them. But the overall plot of a long event needs planning. Otherwise readers have no investment.
Marvel papers over its flubs and so does DC. But eventually the shit is gonna seep out from the wallpaper and the whole house is gonna fall apart. Nice hous eof shitty ideas.

>>150171136
>From how this guy describes writing it, it seems like he was dumb expecting Paul Levitz to give him complete control over these characters and that other writers wouldn't also use them.
It was Earth 2, an alternative universe. There were no other Earth 2 books. But editors follow their own whims, the writer ultimately isn't the one in charge.
>I mean certain events and the whole publishing line being planned to some degree is good because that's what led to COIE in the first place because before hand nobody knew their characters anymore from all these details of when certain events happened in their lives and desire for deeper storytelling necessitated concrete details and continuity.
COIE happened because DC's sales were incredibly bad compared to Marvel's, that's all. It wasn't confusing continuity that did them in, they just weren't making books a lot of people could get excited about, with the exception of Woflman's Teen Titans which retained most of its continuity with the reboot.

>>150170880
I don't think you read the chart right at all

>>150171194
Sorry I shouldn't have said that it was the only reason why COIE happened. But it did provide a new massive jumping on point for readers.

>>150171434
WRONG

>>150157561
All the good New 52 books are ones that easily could have worked without a massive reboot and they were outnumbered by all the shitty and forgettable books.

>>150171194
>with the exception of Woflman's Teen Titans
Legion was also the best selling book of DC and even continued without hiccups until MoS retcons and never recovered

>>150173382
I mean I can understand the sentiment of "We don't need Superboy's existence for this title to do well."

>>150172443
>The dip on the chart reflects decline from 2013-2015, in the New 52 (and DCYou) era and not Rebirth
>Rebirth era was 2016-2017 which did better than last years of New 52
I accept your concession again

>>150173508
The problem was that Legion also wasn't rebooted and then those past stories started to clash with the current status quo of Superman.

>>150157222 (OP)
I imagine it was an attempt to soft reboot in an effort to draw in new readers (start here!) and to clean up decades of messy lore.

>>150164953
Go away syndercuck

>>150174258
They should have just ignored it rather than directly address it, an outcome that apparently left no one happy.

>>150157222 (OP)
I started reading comics because of the New 52, so I'm going to defend it with my life.

>>150157222 (OP)
Because

>>150157508
It did MUCH more harm than good.
Fuck man, look at the history of Doom Patrol, or try to work out the Blue Beetle continuity.

>>150176898
You are a poser, damage was because of COIE

>>150177792
Ok NPC

>>150177896
I am actually The main character, meanwhile you aren't even secondary.

Wasn't the nu52 just a shitshow of bad planning? Like they sprung the change on writers and only gave them a month or two of prep before the transition?

>>150178080
That's what NPCs say

>>150178282
Yes, but how far back something was known depended on which creator

Johns and Lee likely knew in 2010 since they were working on Justice League and also had their ear closer to what the WB/DC plans were

Morrison said he was first told about it around April 2011 (for reference, New 52 was officially announced to the public in May 2011 and Justice League #1 launched August 31, 2011). It's certainly possible that the public announcement was the first time some other creators heard about it.

>>150178694
Prove it

>>150169984
You're out of touch. Coming here spewing twitter opinions as if anyone gives a shit. New 52 did sell well, and clearly still does since it has been a big focus of the recent omnibus output. Please get a better source than twitter next time. The app is made to create engagement by echoing shit you like, or people with your opinion dogpiling a lone retard.

I'm not a fan myself, but I can look at things critically. Fucking idiot.

>>150168539
>market share

Marvel took more market share as the MCU was ramping up? Amazing insight.

>>150179786
New 52 sold so well they desperately rebooted the universe twice or three times in the span of a decade? Or was it four?

>>150177792
TRVTH NVKE

>>150179832
And are now doing worse so clearly it was the wrong move.

>>150179857
Clearly, if only the powers that be could have recognized what a gold mine they had on their hands! Fucking retard

>>150179845
Many ppls here are , even those of My age let alone retarded zog generation raised during COVID-19 panic, they are good people they wish to be, but they are caught in this Yetzer Hara trap of pure ignorance.

>>150179832
I'm saying it's selling well now. But of course it did at the time too. Court of Owls is probably the most requested Batman antagonist in the last 10 years. They had 15 or so animated movies based on N52. You don't have to like it, but it was clearly doing alright by comic standards.

>>150180401
And I’m saying the New 52 was a disaster and the only reason Court of Owls is popular is because it was a new number one. Props for citing the animated movies that ended DC’s one sterling perfect streak it had going though.

>>150177792
The COIE damage had healed by the end of the 90's.

>>150157508
Only 5 titles

>>150157525
That's cool though.
>Animal Man
>Frankenstein
>Jonah Hex
>Blackhawks
>Batwoman
>Blue Beetle
>Batwing
>Deadman
>Etrigan
>I, Vampire
>TWO LoSH books
>Men at War
>OMAC
>Resurrection Man
>Stormwatch
>Voodoo
There was a lot of wacky shit in the launch line up

>>150181053
2nd wave
>Blackhawks, Hawk & Dove, Men of War, Mister Terrific, OMAC, Static Shock were ending.
What's the lesson to be learned there?
>MORE literally who comics

>Dial H
>Earth 2
>GI Combat
>World's Finest
>Ravagers

3rd wave? Any lessons learned
>Phantom Stranger
>team 7
>Sword of Sorcery
>Talon
Nope!

4th Wave
>Threshold
Kino book btw.

5th Wave
>The Movement
>Green Team: Teen Trillionaires
>Larfleeze

6th Wave
>Justice League 3000

7th Wave
>Sinestro
>Future's End
>Infinity Man and the Forever People
>Grayson
>GI Zombie
>Multiversity
>Gotham Academy
>Klarion
>Trinity of Sin
>Arkham Manor

8th Wave
>Gotham by Midnight

9th Wave
>Bat-Mite
>Bizarro
>Midnighter
>Omega Men
>All-Star Section Eight
>Doomed
>Doctor Fate
>Martian Manhunter
>Prez
>Justice League 3001

>>150179793
Movies never affect comic sales. Here are the actual units moved. DC would get a short boost thanks to a gimmick and then they'd drop like a stone so Didio would have to scramble to find a new working gimmick. His last attempt went so poorly they just fired him and a bunch of other people.

>>150176898
>Blue Beetle continuity.
Everything with the spic doesn't count.

>>150179604
You just acted like an NPC again

>>150179786
>
You're out of touch. Coming here spewing twitter opinions as if anyone gives a shit. New 52 did sell well, and clearly still does since it has been a big focus of the recent omnibus output.

Thanks for the meaningless word salad

>I'm not a fan myself, but I can look at things critically. Fucking idiot.

You're fake as hell and it's clearly upsetting you no one likes New 52 as much as you think

>>150179793
Their peak was 2008 but that was when the MCU started. Market share kept going downward till 2014-2015 till it dropped again. It looks like during the MCU's prime, Marvel's market share never reached higher than 2006's sales

ITT: everyone is wrong

>>150183902
I accept your concession.

>>150186675
I accept your concession again.

>>150186675
>>150186742
I accept both of your concessions.

>>150187416
Wtf?

>>150188548
I accept your concession again, OP

>>150157592
Starred in JUST League 2017

>>150157222 (OP)
The legend goes some high up from WB actually went down in the basement to check on DC for the first time ever and Didio and Lee panicked and pitched a reboot to WB, thinking they'd say no but when Warner actually said yes they had to rush it into the ongoing at the time Flashpoint event.

>>150157222 (OP)
I like how you can tell they don't even know what 52 was or why people liked it. They just thought: "They like the number! USE THE NUMBER!!!"

>>150157222 (OP)
Maybe not why thought?

>>150157222 (OP)
Why that?

>>150189587
Really?

>>150157561
That was the good....now for the bad:
A reboot to the mainline continuity just when it was cohesive, as to accommodate the Snyderverse. LOL.
Absolutely no one read Men of War, Infinity Inc, Animal Man or Dial H.
Static Shock was utter dogshit as well as many titles that only lasted less that 12 issues.
Geoff Johns works immediately after GL missed the mark.
No payoff to any of the mysteries.
Pandora was of no consequence, killed off in the start of the NEXT Reboot which was even less remarkable, seriously what the hell was Rebirth about?
As per usual the timeline was worse by the reboot and DC had to patch it up by year two and that took almost a decade and it is still ALL terrible.
The 5 year gap and new origin crap was confusing.

>>150159844
A few books of the time were good but nothing stick.
I would vouch for Future's End which is the Swan Swong to the Nu52 before we enter Convergence and /co/ #1 superhero ever, the all memorable Telos!
Remember Telos /co/, sure you do, we all talked about Telos back then.
The best comic of the time, Telos.
Oh boy those Telos thread sure were something.
Ha ha, Good old Telos.

>>150157222 (OP)
Is ok to say why though. Is natural.