Thread 150172852

>give Superman, the most iconic hero, a son
>make him old (ugly) and gay
DC/Warner could have had its own version of Gohan but they ruined it. Why? Imagine Jon having his own big villain and actual character development. Kids want cool things like Gohan vs Cell, not the gay shit DC writes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyMeAo9kgsY

>>150172852 (OP)
>DC/Warner could have had its own version of Gohan but they ruined it.

In the longrun, that wouldn't be a good thing. Look how Gohan turned out.

>>150172859
Well, he did go on to land the second best girl in Dragon Ball (until she lost her ponytails). Can’t be all bad.

Wtf at these proportions?

>>150172876
>until she lost her ponytails

Considering how early that was, I don't think it's much to consider.

>>150172852 (OP)
Can't say he's the gayest hero I've seen


But he is the most corporate version of what a companion would believe gay people want .

Gohan was less popular than Goku. Shit comparison

>>150172976
Gohan was the most popular character

>>150172878
Cell saga Gohan is only 4 feet tall acording to the animator height chart while kid Jon is an inch shorter than Wolverine. Damian is an inch taller than Wolverine.

Why aren't kids allowed to do this in comics? It's always adults https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYDSaxpT34U

>>150172852 (OP)
>DC/Warner could have had its own version of Gohan but they ruined it.
No, they couldn't have. Superman was already a generation past the zeitgeist by the time Jon was introduced. Toriyama owned Japan when he introduced Gohan.

>>150172852 (OP)
>As if Gohan didn't got ruined the following arc because Toriyama stop giving a fuck.

>>150172918
Least gay Brazilian show.

>>150173072
He does that a lot with women as well. like 18 is built as this antagonist that was supposed to kill Goku, and then she just becomes Krillin wife. I actually like Videl who after the tournament just become girlfriend then wife.

>>150172852 (OP)
Turn Jon into an adult and make him lame and gay!

>>150172999
That was pre buu saga. During the buu saga, Gohan was so lame, fans demanded Goku return

Gohan was fucked because Toriyama found him too difficult to write. He created a character who was the polar opposite of Goku. He didn't like fighting, wasn't interested in training anc had no real martial arts discipline. Toriyama was used to writing protagonist who just propeled forward 24/7. He lacked the talent to get anywhere with Gohan after his big moment.

Also, mind you, the signs were always there. His first big power up was just given to him. Didn't have to earn it or anything.

Jon's problem was the opposite. American comics have multiple writers, so just because one writer's bad at something doesn't mean they all have to be. Jon was just given to the one writer who shouldn't have been allowed to get his hands on him.

>>150173209
Nope. Toriyama realized drawing group shots and building interiors like capeshit has is too hard.

>>150173002
Isn't Wolverine 5' on the dot or am I wildly off?

>>150173298
Thing is this can easily be fixed be declaring that shit non canon and simply ignoring any of the faggots who don't read comics who complain about gay erasure but they're too pussy to do it

>>150173319
This, but also Toriyama couldn't make it work. Normally, he just flies by the seat of his pants and makes shit up as he goes along. He just hit writer's block with Gohan and gave up partway.

Dragon Ball fans be like "the best version of Gohan is the traumatized child soldier who is forced to become everything he hates"

>>150173298
Gohan's first big power up comes from a year of harsh training. His second power up is given, but it's not true he didn't have to earn it; in fact, he and Krillin were granted it because Gohan saved Dende from Dodoria (and then Krillin saved them both). Gohan doesn't get an undearned power up until the dance thing in the Buu saga.

>>150172852 (OP)
Not sure about the sexuality thing, but the age thing isn't a secret to anyone with sense.
Bendis wanted to write for Superman but as usual didn't want to do any research on canon since he'd stopped being aware of the character, so he aged up and shuffled off Jon.

The funny thing is there were two Superman going around at one point, one with wife and child, and while confusing had it stuck that way it's possible Bendis could have had his cake without contaminating the rest on the table. But knowing him he might have done it anyway just to be sure since he also wanted to write Young Justice as he recalled them and probably wanted to make sure Jon was old enough not to go around as a Superboy once shuffled off to whoever.

>>150173349
>the best version of Gohan is the traumatized child soldier who is forced to become everything he hates"
Yes, because that was the most interesting part of him.

>>150173324
5'3

>>150173349
Goku:
>Bulma: "Hey kid, I know we just met but wanna go on an adventure with me?"
>Goku: "Sure, sounds fun."
>Roshi: "Hey kid, wanna be my student?"
>Goku: "No, I already promised Bulma I'd go on an adventure with her, but once that's done, I'll totally come be your student!"
>Bulma: "Welp, adventure's done. What are you gonna do now, Goku?"
>Goku: "I'm gonna train under that Roshi guy!"
>Roshi: "Time to test the fruits of your training! Go do a tournament!"
>Goku: "Oh boy!"
>Roshi: "Tournament's done. You must go on a journey to get even stronger, Goku."
>Goku: "No time like the present!"

This is the kind of protagonist Toriyama was used to writing. Goku never needed much convincing to do anything. In fact, he almost never had any real downtime. The moment the previous arc was done, he immediately went headfirst into the next one. Dragonball was pretty fast-paced and spontaneous. Writing about an idyllic school life with a part-time superhero gig doesn't really suit Toriyama much at all. Gohan isn't a character with a ton of initiative, and that fucked Toriyama over. He's not really a talented enough writer that he can go outside his comfort zone and make it work. He can only play to his strengths.

>>150172852 (OP)
No they couldn’t have- Superman doesn’t end, he doesn’t age, he doesn’t have a single consistent continuity- he could never be Gohan who we watch grow in a singular condensed saga.

Supermantards are DELUSIONAL

>>150172859
In cape comics, characters can stay the same vague age for decades. Dragon Ball was already an oddity because the characters were allowed to age. Shueisha didn't want Goku to grow up but Toriyama insisted

>>150173412
>Bendis wanted to write for Superman but as usual didn't want to do any research on canon
Ooooooooooooh, that makes sense. Bendis would do that. I was just thinking tjat reading super sonss, Damien comes off as gay. I remember a Christmas issue where hefound the present Jon wanted, and has the gayest fucking look in the chair. I also remember that he had a neighbor girl set up to be his love interest.

a character like gohan would be seen as too violent for kids, sadly. even dbz had to be censored; the biggest reason we got anime over here was because the quality was too high to ignore (and cheap to dub)

spider-man comes the closest to a massively popular kid hero that kicks ass, and even he's an adult most of the time

>>150173581
It was mainly for practical purposes. Toriyama found Goku's small body and stubby limbs to be too restricting for a martial arts series. He started wanting to draw more dynamic fight scenes and needed Goku to grow up to accommodate that.

>>150172852 (OP)
Because Didio is autistic and hates superhero having kids thinking it makes them “older” (even though having adult kids makes them look even older).

Bendis wanted an older Jon because his adopted black son was older and he wanted Jon to be like him. Also he wanted to sue Jon as an excuse to write Legion of Superheroes.

Tom Taylor didn’t want Superman’s replacement to be “a cis white male” (his own words).

>>150172859
Yeah, he got old and ugly. Op confirmed right.

>>150173468
So Gohan should've just been an exact clone of Goku, then? Not allowed to develop his own identity or have interests outside of going around looking for faces to punch?

>>150173678
>Tom Taylor didn’t want Superman’s replacement to be “a cis white male”
Well, they should retcon Lois into this and keep Jon straight

>>150173678
>Tom Taylor didn’t want Superman’s replacement to be “a cis white male” (his own words).

source?

>>150173678
If he didn't want Superman's replacement to be a "cis white male" he could made it be Supergirl or Power Girl instead.

>>150173863
They are lame

>>150173766
No. But Toriyama tried and failed. That's all there is to it. I'm not saying that Gohan is a flawed archetype. I'm saying Toriyama isn't the guy to write that sort of character. He's not talented enough for it.

>>150172859
Wait, what's wrong with Gohan?
He was able to retire into academia and live in a mansion with his hot wife, raising his daughter.
Gohan is living his best life.
Imagine if they'd let Tim Drake and Stephanie Brown go off into the sunset like that.

>>150173349
This but unironically. DBZ Gohan (up through Cell Saga) is the best character in the Dragonball Universe.
Completely coincidentally, my favorite heroes from Marvel and DC are Cyclops and Nightwing.
No, I don't see anything wrong with this.

>>150174492
So I'm guessing you didn't care for Dragonball up until the Saiyan arc. You seem to prefer characters with few idiosyncrasies.

>>150172852 (OP)
It's strange that the younger version of Jon is clearly far more popular but they refuse to recon and give people what they want

>>150172852 (OP)
The problem with Jon was that nothing that happened to him was done for the sake of love. Bendis aged Jon up because he hates writing children. Taylor made him gay because he's afraid of too many straight white males in one place.

Goku is better than superman

>>150174492
Comics like this really drive home that superheroes aren't really for children anymore. In the Golden Age, Robin was just supposed to be a character for kids to relate to. Kids were supposed to imagine themselves in his shoes, going on cool adventures with Batman. But over time, superhero comics stopped being for kids. Adults started looking at this set-up with a degree of scrutiny that was never meant to be applied to Batman. Now, it's all about indoctrination. Robins are child soldiers. Batman is a horrible person. Superhero stories no longer need a "kid appeal" character anymore, because none of these stories are really written with children in mind to begin with. The kids who loved Batman grew up and decided they hated him and wanted to destroy him.

>>150172852 (OP)
>Gohan became worse once he got older
>Jon became worse once he got older

>>150173772
The Invicible method, bold but effective.

>>150174992
Goku stayed mostly the same and western fans constantly criticize and berate him for being a manchild.

While Gohan is one of my favorite Dragon Ball characters, he just doesn't work well for the series he's in long term. By the buu saga, DB pretty much became fight porn, and Gohan is an intellectual. So, that just doesn't pair well. Gohan would have worked better if the buu saga was a murder mystery or Videl and him went on space adventures where they had did stuff like stop ayys from launching a race war.

>>150173349
Yes

>>150175021
That's also why the Saiyaman Saga was so good.

>>150175021
Gohan's an intellectual, but his intellect is mostly unhelpful for a martial arts manga. If you notice, Gohan isn't really a particularly cerebral fighter. He mostly just overwhelms his enemies with raw brute force and superior stats.

>>150172852 (OP)
White men love dicks. Hence why Taylor turned Jon into a gay man that love dicks and gave the gay community their Gay Superman.

Gohan is a guy who doesnt like to fight
In a show about fighting
At least superkid is gonna try to be a hero like his dad

>>150175094
maybe they should have hired someone who can write gay characters that have interesting plots and good love interests instead.

>>150172852 (OP)
Lets be honest here. Jon was living on borrowed time. As a child character of a prominent character in cape comics, there were only 2 paths available to him. He was either going to be killed off or aged up. Even Franklin and Valeria Richards eventually got aged up even if it took longer than what would be considered norm.

>>150175323
>maybe they should have hired someone who can write gay characters that have interesting plots
Tom Taylor is the token writer for these kind of stories.
>and good love interests instead.
Writers that can write good romances arent going to be writing superhero comics.

>>150175381
cs pacat is right there churning out occasional comics between homolust novels. they should have been like
>we'll make you a deal. you can have another volume of your weird fencing comic if you agree to make Jon Kent appealing to the girls & gays and give him a boyfriend they actually like since we fucked up the shipping

>>150175419
i'm going to pop round when we finish up here and cave your skull in with a nice humidor, anon

>>150175419
You sound like quite the mentally ill freak. You and those people you criticize care way too much what someone else does with their own dick.

>>150172859
>Look how Gohan turned out.

It turned well, he had a good character development despite being on a shitty shonenslop unlike Jon whose potential was ruined.

>>150175008
Goku changed a lot then reverted back after Toriyama couldn't handle the Saiyaman arc. It broke him and it shows.

>>150172852 (OP)
Nobody cares about Jon. Normalfags don't even know he exists. Get over it.

>>150175532
>Nobody cares about Jon
I do. Him and Damian(already my favorite Robin by the time Jon came around) were my favorite part of Rebirth.

Also, the fuck are you talking about? The Super Sons Omni sold so well that it was re-printed 4 times and sold out each time.

>>150175532
>Normalfags don't even know he exists
I don't get this. They shill Damian in animated movies and cartoons but Jon gets nothing. They don't even give him cameos in Teen Titans Go

>>150175139
A son of a superhero who doesn't like being a hero but still has to do it seems like a good plot.

>>150173766
NTA, but Toriyama should have just commited to Goten and Trunks

>>150172852 (OP)
Gohan is the WORST example you could have used, it's like you're proving their point.

You should've used Invincible.

>>150175651
>They shill Damian in animated movies and cartoons but Jon gets nothing. They don't even give him cameos in Teen Titans Go

They won't do it, Jon is dead at this point and DC knows they fuck it up but guess what they will fuck it up again with whatever they come with next.

>>150173072
Toriyama probably thought that Goku was a better character/easier character to write (same thing happened to Gotenks)

>>150175742
Is this bait? Mark is an awful loser. Gohan at least had cool moments as a kid. Mark had nothing.

>>150175742
Cringe

>>150172852 (OP)
Gohan also turns old ugly and gay

>>150177090
>old
Saiyans age slower than humans
>ugly
Women disagree. Pic related
>gay
Gohan is singlehandly saving the saiyan race

>>150172852 (OP)
I feel like these threads are being made more often. Also Gohan's character progression took a nosedive after the Cell saga.

>>150172852 (OP)
Because DC is gay and retarded. That faggot Tom Taylor ruined it

>>150172859
Gohan is still Superman even if he is a lazy Superman

>>150175008
Because the English dub made him into Superman

GY

>>150176063
>>150176510
Generic hype moments that make him outshine the Trinity wouldn't endear him to fans and you know it.

>>150175760
Goku at the end of the Buu Saga hated Babidi for hogging the strongest fighters. He rather have Gohan take over so he can fight broken monsters and use Super Saiyan 3. Just like how Piccolo in GT would rather go to hell to fight Z-Villains for fun. Goku stopped being easy to write after the 23 Budokai Tournament because Raditz set the tone for Z.

>>150177218
Nappa does the Superman pose when he's flying. He was so powerful that Vegeta needed to give the heroes breaks before the kill order. He even inspired Super Vegeta and Super Trunks

It's depressing how the big 2 will finally have something good and they can't ruin it fast enough

>>150177824
>invinciblefag doesn't know what people want
I bet you think abortions are more endearing than good fights

>>150172878
Are you telling me different art styles lead to different image file sizes?

Post gohan destroying a planet

>>150178023
I really believe the gay lobby in and out of DC is the only reason they haven't undone the damage.

>All those deleted posts
What is going on?

>>150172852 (OP)
Jon himself is a mistake.

>>150172852 (OP)
Yeah. They have so much mistakes over the year.

>>150179326
Why would he do that? Only a villain would do that.

>>150172878
That's actually not that weird. Gohan has huge ass hair and probably has a lot more beef as a child martial artist.
Jon is just built like a regular kid.

>>150173349
More like Gohan realizes that sometimes there's no other way but to take action to protect what you love even if you don't want to.

>>150182805
A shame western kid charactes don't do that

>>150181766
Post cell destroying a planet