Thread 150263796

Why were people mixed on this pilot?

>>150263796 (OP)
because it is shit.

Hear me out gennedy....what if you could have sex with a cartoon character

Great high concept and lofty artistic goals but there's a clear amateurishness to it and the clear focus on a very specific style of comedy and tone that isn't palatable for everyone. The concept and pitch clearly has legs but Pan clearly needs some more assistance from a dedicated team to make the whole thing more cohesive. Pan is an amazing graphic designer with a striking art style but his character designs need work if they're going to be fully animated. It's the kind of thing you'll either love or hate because it tickles some form of autism in your brain or harkens back to an old trend you used to follow from the early 2000.

>>150263796 (OP)
i dont really like pans artstyle and he didn't even try to make his voice different for any of his characters. it felt like i was watching a panpizza review video and not a cartoon pilot. has all his same speech mannerisms and autistic personal quirks and humor.
>goth chicks lmao

>>150264060
Basically, it needs a dedicated team to iron thus out.

>>150263796 (OP)
why'd you make another thread pan?

>>150263796 (OP)
just sucks really

production is all over the place, the idea for the universe is fun but its so confusing and broken in practice, the designs are all just kinda ugly, the way the pilot was edited made it hard to get invested and like i was watching a review video than a cartoon i was supposed to get into, generally has no substance

Why do you idiots refuse to use the subject name so you can find the thread at all? Anyway...

Did everyone talk about the bad choreography, loser characters and make comparisons to many other sports, toy commercials and monster tournament shows? I read through some of the thread, but none of them go into detail, at most barely 5 people barely mention about the superpower not being used.
I'm asking so that I don't have to do a review on it. Most of the zoomers here seem incapable of going into details and especially comparisons to other shows to form a concrete perspective.


I read Pan's comic and it was far better than the pilot, while ironically also saying back then that Loki's "fairplay" was a "little" retarded and Bianca as a future character doesn't work and should be replaced ... and that was when Biance & Loki weren't losing for 33 minutes straight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLVU2jHUBeI

>>150263812
/thread
style over substance and he can't even fucking draw better than a 6yo with their mommys iPad

it's a series made for people with the same taste pan has and im not sure if it's a big demographic. the pilot has lots of exposition but also moments that feel too advanced for a first time watcher. it doubts itself to be engaging by throwing a lot of content that pleases anyone with ADHD. the IRL ART is not entirely defined itself what is and how it works and how techniques become tangible in tournaments instead we just get le SAKUGA and impact frames for your average shonenslop fag who can't follow the plot. I don't want to be too harsh but that budget was trashed away when instead he could've work better in the plot instead of throwing adult swim style eyecatch or paying daftpina which his job in this show feels like he scammed pan real hard

>>150265691
Please stop trying to copy Steam & RottenTomatoes reviewers.

>>150263796 (OP)
Zenshuu conceptualize what Pan tried to do here. Perhaos he should watch it, it might help him define how his battle mechanic work

>>150263855
Genndy has no leg to stand on now with making a movie about dogs fucking each other silly. He is still one of the best out there, BUT he has no room to judge anyone anymore.

>>150265746
Please take a moment to look at your grammer before hitting the post button. Great suggestion by the way.

Zenshu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-pRH6GuvmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDKlCBLWsoI
https://www.crunchyroll.com/watch/GG1UX5X3W/first-stroke

>>150263855
>That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard Pan, now having sex with a dog on the otherhand...

>>150265811
This is shit

a pilot that could've been made into 15 minutes. a lot of plot points darted into this single episode i don't even know what's the goal in this show. I think Pan should start slow by making fights be focused in hand made to handmade battles before jumping to complex animations

>>150265875
Zenshuu may have come after Loki IRL but this anime already solidify what Oan is trying to do here with his shonenslop trope

>>150265875
>Said the retard without even watching 1 episode.
You will watch it before I kill you, Pan. C'mon all spics love anime. The main character girl is surprisingly a very different type of autism from the usual Japanese crap ... her autism feels very western.

>>150263796 (OP)
WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T HE JUST DRAW THE HUMANS TO LOOK NORMAL
THE STUPID SACK OF SHIT

so is Loli some mexican based character becayse he said a word in soanish but also why is he green? is it Loki as in the nordic god Lokk?

>>150265966
that's my main issue, the line that defines humans and oc is almost blurred out because everyone is so stylized tjere's no consistency. at least Invader Zim followed a general shape for humans

>>150263796 (OP)
I'm surprised it's not more negative honestly. The whole thing reeks of some guy who peaked creatively in high school and can neither improve their art beyond a marginal degree nor let go of the shitty ideas they had back when they were a kid. Like even ignoring how amateur every aspect of this thing is there's no getting past that it's flat out just a bad idea conceptually. It's a perfect example why it's usually a bad idea to try and make something out of an idea you had since you were a kid. It's derivative of a bunch of shit while not making much sense on its own.

>>150265981
pan doesn't understand mythology at all, he is 100% just as confused as you are. his name is pan is based on a playful trickster god, and loki is a playful trickster god, every pantheon of gods has one, even the mexican pantheon of gods, he gave loki the face of the mexican god of fire huehueteotl, pimp hat too maybe.

i think for pan, its just stealing the look of aku from samurai jack and making him a green mexican pimp and calling him loki, its not that deep for pan who did zero research and doesnt care or think about those kinds of things at all desu lol

>>150266374
>>150265746
You "gentlemen" ready to backup your arguments before I call you inbred fat landwhales who can't even express yourselves correctly?

I absolutely don't like Pan's execution and I can find his idea anywhere else, but what I really fucking hate out of 4chan is once upon hearing somebody saying "4chan gives the most honest critique" and when I come to 4chan I notice I'm the only reviewer who actually has unique and detailed opinions to say without copycatting everyone else.

>>150266624
The fuck are you talking about? I'm just saying it's a bad concept because it's a bunch of half-formed conflicting ideas clumsily tied together. Like it's supposed to be about the cartoon industry but it doesn't seem like Pan actually understands it. Also the distinction between human beings and "IRLs" (which is a fucking retarded name) is extremely arbitrary since Pan doesn't know how to fucking draw and actually differentiate them stylistically.

>>150266624
Where were you when we needed you for Wastelandia? fucknugget

>>150266804
Learn to write an opinion that belongs to you and and learn to expand on it. All of your criticism is not self-explanatory and can be given to any show out of context. It isn't automatically understand what specifically you're talking about.

>>150267024
I'm not looking to give a professional critique my dude, I'm just stating my first impressions and my impressions is that this is a complete clusterfuck. I don't know how any more self explanatory I can be with "if you're making a thing about cartoons in real life then you should make the humans and cartoons visually distinct from on another so there's no possible chance you can confuse the two" When fucking Kappa Mikey does a better job at this than you, you have a major problem on your hands.

>>150266567
Loki seems very Ace from Powerpuff Girls probably mixed with those pimps from the episode where they go to the disco demon realm.

When will guys like Pan learn that black people don’t want them lecturing non-minorities about minority character casting in fictional properties? What drives a supposed nerd or artist to try to limit other people’s creativity like this?

>>150267901
what are you talking about

From the way he talks this kid is too mentally retarded to hold a normal life, let alone figure out how to hold a project, I'm surprised if he even holds a job. He sounds genuinely autistic. He talks like Pewdiepie but even worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLMjNFlSWJ8

>>150263796 (OP)
Its not a pilot with a giant production so the quality isn't the same as glitch production

>>150268012
Yet he was able to get a GF and have sex unlike you

why did every youtube reviewer decide to make a pilot the past year?

>>150268012
You calling everything remotely weird or unique autistic just reinforces his racial persecution complex.

>>150263796 (OP)
Aside from the obvious complaints such as no rules/guidelines for how OCs are created and how their powers are supposed scale ... and the obvious complaint about Pan only having 1 art style which doesn't allow him to create distinct looking humans...

The audio mixing is more garbage than Monkey Wrench. The instrumentals aren't separated, you can't hear the music over the vocals, the music's instruments/synthpads do not have the same volume between the SFX and everything else.

30 minutes feel like 10 minutes because of how little happens and gets done in it.

The fighting choreography lacks cohesion due to bad angles and the camera not following the characters they move. You can't read the action very well.

===========================
And then comes the worst parts about the pilot which are present in the comics as well. The comics ironically had a more detail to them with Loki mentioning he's a villain yet also refuse to elaborate on why he wants to stop being a villain and what did he do in the past to be a villain.
Ironically the comics have slightly more substance and a far better pacing.

We have a villain who doesn't want to be a villain ... that already contradicts itself. A villain who wants to be "honorable" and "fairplay".
Bianca who seems to be both ugly on the inside and outside and has no redeeming qualities to herself and it almost looks like she can't draw worth a shit or is far too insecure to draw.

I've seen my fair share of jobber protagonists and loser protagonists such as Naruto and Ash Ketchum, plus villain protagonists ... but these 2 Bianca & Loki take the cake at how garbage they are. Not even Naruto lost this much, not even Naruto went "Nope I refuse to use my kyuubi chakra, I want a fair fight" or imagine if Naruto refused to use shadow clones cause it wouldn't be "honorable". Fucking Ash Ketchum used a bucket of water on Onyx.
Ed Edd Eddy were actually fun villain protagonists ... these 2 are not.

>>150268396

Which leads to the next contradiction ... you expect a toy commercial or a sports show like Galactik Football to be all about the overly powerful underdog who never quits and does anything to win ... meanwhile you have Bianca who's so insecure not even the audience understands why she's insecure, you don't see any anime "inner mind" to get a glimpse of what's inside her head and she ends up looking even more incompetent than Ash Ketchum.
Meanwhile compare her to any obnoxious "GOTTA BE THE VERY BEST" protagonist from Beyblade, B-Daman, Duel Masters, etc.
Same with Loki's sleek attempt at being The Pharaoh/Cool Guy, he fails completely at it cause he loses every time and he attributes the loss to "wanting to play fair" which when questioning Pan about it he has no idea about "villain redemption"
These 2 characters also show a lot of Pan's personality as an anxious bravado retard who he himself admits doesn't know what he's doing and he's also a stubborn piece of shit. From the way he behaves and how he talks he seems clinically insane for an adult, delusional sounding.

These 2 loser characters also don't really have any emotional moments to make you like them to say Pan is writing them as failures to get the feelings going cause this isn't Oban Star Racers. Neither Ash Ketchum x Pikachu dying, Pan isn't doing emotion despite writing them as losers. This isn't Ed Edd Eddy the movie. So it's redundant and contradicting as shit to write a Pokemon-like show where the main character and her summon are both failures. And they're not funny and endearing failures either.

Speaking of pacing and fighting scenes... it takes a large amount of time to get to them and when they finally happen they end too soon or they keep getting interrupted mid fight with all these micro pauses which completely destroys the atmosphere and pacing of the action sequence. There's no weight to the character actions, the stills don't last enough, there's a lot of standing around for a fighting sequence.

In 2017, Pan-Pizza was hanging out with a hypnosis fetish artist named Penken who was kind of trying to network with him for some social cred and stability around a time where niche communities fueled by nerd sexual energy were becoming inhospitable due to fallout from the Trump election cycle. Pan knew what Penken was into, and this was back in the time period when Pan was still running the diaper fetish meme about himself that, if I’m not mistaken, *he* was responsible for. Pan was talking about how hypnosis fetishism was stupid, which Penken took in his stride, and he said something like “look who’s talking, diaper-boy!”, and this caused Pan to have an absolute meltdown and snap at him like a firecracker, with a torrent of legitimate anger and indignation about how he didn’t have a diaper fetish, that it was just a joke, and Penken was fucking stupid for coming at him given his. This is not a public story, there will never be any evidence for this, and Penken even tried to play nice with him for years afterward, but was ignored.

>>150267712
His OG design looked more original with the super long nose and goblin wizard look

These drawings look so abstract and ugly.

>not breaking 100k first day
DOA

>>150268132
Mentally insane landwhales don't count. Go back to Married with Children if you think having a family means you've been successful in life.

>>150263796 (OP)
Pan's peak is transitions, end credits, graphics, etc
I say this in the most positive way possible - he would be doing his best work if he worked at a marketing department for sneakers or something

>>150268797
Imagine losing to Catching Up and Wastelandia

>>150268429
The reason we are supposed to root for Bianca is because she has a dream to have a cartoon, and she's part of a club dedicated to animation and probably practices long hours in order to get better despite her fear of people judging her. The problem is we don't see any of that.

>>150268947
STOP HE'S ALREADY DEAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i7e1JxUE-Y

>>150263796 (OP)
Now that Pan himself isn't in every thread giving himself 7/10 reviews, people can actually talk about it honestly, and the honest truth is that it's not especially good. It's cool that this small time creator finally got his passion project made, and you can vicariously appreciate how cool it would be to have your dream project finally brought to life, no matter how janky and imperfect it would be. However, that doesn't make this good and it doesn't make up for Pan wasting his life on this one idea and this one art style only to shit out this visually striking, but conceptually retarded pilot, and then start begging that someone pay him to make the rest of the show.

>>150268396
You're right, it should be the other way around, with Bianca being the one who doesn't want to use the Wifi curse because it goes against her goal of becoming a better artist, and Loki being the one trying to convince her to use it. I think Pan has already written himself into a corner, I can't see a way they could use it later in the series without contradicting what just happened in the first episode.

>>150263796 (OP)
>Why were people mixed on this pilot?

Because there's people who have legitimate criticism over the Pilot being bad but there's also people who genuinely hate Pan and want to see him fail

>>150266567
This.
The original plotline was going to be that Loki was Pan and the cultists hunting him were Pan cultists trying to bring their God into reality through the system of IRL. That is why IRLs get more powerfull the more well known they are. Panpizza is on record saying he always wanted better Mexican cultural representation in media and this is his implentation of that.

>>150269261
It looks better in the second half, but that's like dragging your nuts through broken glass for the promise that you'll be able to drag your nuts through gravel after the first mile.

>>150269255
That kinda makes sense as a concept for a story. But, like the pilot itself it makes less sense the longer you think about it. I mean at that point why make an idol trickster when you can draw slaves and harems into existence without consequence? Kinda seems like you got endgame for most cultists and rich people who are just lonely and or don't have a lot of money. As many have pointed out the IRL system introduced gives people too much power

>>150268947
Catching Up could have 300 billion views and would still be a passionless, embarrassing piece of utter shit worse than this.

>>150269333
Despite ostensibly being about social media and about the struggle of being a small artist trying to make it big, the show isn't about some low-skill trying to make his toon OC, Toucan Henry, a star while talented artists shit out a dozen pandering "IRLs" with giant tits and asses, and mass-appeal seeking artstyles.

He could have some kind of power system based on the medium and artstyle the artist uses. People who only draw in pencil, or crayon, or water color. Monochrome OCs that have to work around the color limitation with tones and textures. There should be some kind of tradeoff for a 3d modeled character, versus a digitally illustrated one, versus a pen and paper one, versus cheap pencils on notebook paper. And that's before you even get to all the different kinds of OCs artists typically draw. The potential is there, Pan is just too much of a narrow-minded retard to see it, because it doesn't fit his "graphic design is my passion" Super Milk-chan aesthetic.

Pan is getting the criticism he deserves fir very literally bullmoosing this through. If he actually tried to make a comic he would have gotten criticism for this way earlier and could have course corrected accordingly for the pilot. But, he quite literally sat on this idea for years until the western cartoon industry was on the verge of extinction replacing workers with ai. So he got this out flaws and all which first impressions is everything to a pilot. Look at how TADC got huge milage after an impressively simple to grasp pilot compared to other GLITCH shows who are stylish but, aren't getting the same hype and fanfic AU's.

>>150263796 (OP)
The problem with the pilot is that Pan still did not take Genndy's advice after being humiliated.

The humans and normal people look too similar to irls. Making them rounder and flesh colored doesnt make them look more human, Pan. It makes them look like less interesting Irls. What pan needs to do is completely revamp how he draws humans and probably make them a little more anatomically correct or use an entirely different shape language.

I think instead of dropping exposition throughout the episode, he could have more monologue about it at the beginning, he already talked about it at the start, theres no harm in just fully explaining how the world works.

Humor is fine-ish. Could be a lot funnier.

Backgrounds and framing shots were really well done, I think Pan and his crew did a good job with those parts.

>>150269476
Yeah it doesn't help that everything is literally in Pan's art style so the level of artistic skill between the characters is null. They all look like OC's he drew. The concept itself with everyone having to compete for attention and mixing of IRL's and humans really would have benefited from him actually using different styles. Which he didn't want to do because this is just his art portfolio as well more than a story pilot

>>150269476
I think that's a consequence of him not wanting to fundamentally change something that he has clung onto since childhood. What you proposed is an actually creative take on the concept but he is incapable of retooling it into something more thematically coherent. The core childhood fantasy is still there, he just added/removed bits and pieces over the years like some creative Frankenstein when it desperately needed a retooling. He couldn't even bother to redesign the ugly MC or some of the abhorrently ugly side characters, he just tried to polish the turd because he can't let go of his juvenile dream.

Is this kid suffering from actual ADHD or some form of mental stunt development? He behaves exactly like an obnoxious uneducated 12 year old despite... how old is he, 28? From his insecure yet arrogant voice to his lack of vocabulary he sounds like a raised at home 12 year old who hasn't been beaten in quite a while. He somehow behaves worse than most e-celebs. I'd hate to work for him. I wouldn't be able to work for him without my dad and teacher instincts kicking in and telling him to behave before I grab my belt and crack it on his ass.

>>150269633
>>150269634
If Pan comes out the other side on this and completely retools the concept, I could see this being super cool. That JSR vibe for the world and music, combined with human characters battling aesthetically/artistically unique creations that express their skill level, personality, and creativity. You could easily do a few seasons with that concept and get some good mileage out of the ability to bring in other animators to do their own thing entirely and not have it look out of place in the show.

Take the Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends fight club from the first episode, cross it with Beyblade and Pokemon, then do the Gumball mixed media look. Could be awesome if Pan sat down and ate the entire humble pie before working on this series again.

>>150269261
>checked and keked
It's like having your jaw broken and throat forced open for the first half, then having sulfuric acid poured down your throat for the second.

>>150265777
At the very least, Genndy could say "The dog fucking appeals to us because we're often just like the dog trying to fuck other things silly". That's a perverted message, but not an inaccurate one. Wanting to fuck cartoon characters seems like arrested development, or whatever its called.

>>150263796 (OP)
hashtag should be white and Loki should be green.

>>150269712
>If Pan comes out the other side on this and completely retools the concept
Not gonna happen, this pilot is him trying to polish the concept after more than a decade. This is likely the best he is capable of and it's middling at best. The biggest issue is that the dude flat out doesn't know how to draw that well. He's technically *improved* over the years but just like this pilot he's ignored the fundamentals and has tried to make up with it by polishing what he has and a general focus on a certain aesthetic but it obviously lacks a proper foundation.

>>150269711
Nah, he just has an inbetween of profound and high functioning autism. His voice and mannerisms are consistent with such.

>>150269800
is this pan????Holy shit he looks so different from that cringe af photo that was circulating of him with rebecca sugar all those years ago

>>150269837
He looks more ethnic here, Bet Pan is wishing he could look more white passing now

>>150269787
It's a pretty huge and unlikely "If" but my point is that there is a way to make this idea work and even become far cooler than whatever the fuck Pan thinks he's accomplishing right now. Unfortunately, that version of the idea requires that Pan not be allowed to do the exact, stupid, unappealing bullshit he's been insistent on doing for his entire fucking career.

What the fuck does wifi have to do with cartoons? Also why the fuck is he throwing rotoscoping under the bus?

>>150269837
Yes. He's lost a lot of weight but you need to consider he is pointing his chin down for a better angle of his face in the shot. I am honestlt surprised no one has posted it since the pilot

>>150269843
>He looks more ethnic here
Worse. He is actually wearing caked foundation

>>150269863
The problem with that is it requires Pan to stop being Pan, he's way too set in his ways at this point. Everything has potential, rarely is it realized.

>>150269800
The reddit grift again?

This is him not even a month ago when he debut the pilot at Momocon

>>150269913
If you look at his xitter he has photos where he looks like >>150269800. This has been covered before in previous threads, it's him.

>>150269913
>grift
Consider touching brass.

>>150269950
Consider eating a vegetable

>>150269863
The positive thing is that at least the concept can be saved with a bit of exposition that patches holes and some better art choices in the future. Maybe a short episode #2 or a comic. I've seen a lot of shows that are UNSALVAGEABLE lately. Like they have all the tools and destroy all the good will they have. This just needs a bit more structure and it can be pretty good. I think most anons here can honestly agree on that

>>150264060
Pan has been dragging along this concept and characters for like 20 years.
I don't think he would welcome the severe changes that a team or professionals would push for.

>>150269913
he looks semi normal/decent here

>>150269800
Pan pls change up your style its not working, its giving how do you do fellow youth

>>150269712
Pan will be sad to hear and you'll be happy to hear that a lot of his concepts have already been done in numerous shows. Well except for the Mario Strikers and JSR art style.

Zenshu
Hero Inside
Di-Gata Defenders

Huntik
Digimon
Ben 10

>>150270089
Megaman Battle Network,
which also features humanoid talking PET Navis, the list goes on.

>>150270002
It needs more than a patch, it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up and that isn't going to happen

>>150270235
Roger Rabbit meets Pokemon meets a lot of questionable design choices Pan will never give up on.

>Bakshi
you wish

>>150263812
/Thread
Pan seething over it the other night was funny

>>150263796 (OP)
It feels more like "look at all the quirky tumblrcore nerdcore widget media I'm into, doesn't this remind you of it": the pilot animation

It feels exactly like the kind of thing someone who thinks [Jet Set Radio, FLCL, Powerpuff Girls, Panty and Stocking, Scott Pilgrim, Kill La Kill, Gorillaz, Hazbin Hotel, include other widget series here] is the greatest thing ever would make if he had just enough of a budget to bring it to life, but also isn't a particularly great writer or choreographer and got groomed excessively by Tumblr to focus on what Tumblr likes about his favorite media rather than what drew him to it in the first place

Funny as shit I know a guy with the exact opposite problem. He's actually a fucking fantastic writer and visual storyteller, but goddamn he's lazy and poor. If he had Pan's chance or the two collaborated, it probably would have worked way better
As is it's just alright
Ironically it came a decade too late
People would have lapped it up even if it was just alright a decade ago when he first pitched it because indie animation was so rare
Now "quirk chungus nü 90s" indie toons are a dime a dozen

>>150270669
Pan was seething on stream? damn I miss it

>>150270669
Link to stream/vid?

>>150270813
Pretty sure Pan doesn't archive his streams

>>150270813
>>150270773
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLMjNFlSWJ8

He should have kept the webcomic going, this shit was all over the place, felt like the musings of a 14 year old weeb dozing off in math class. Maybe if he'd kept the comic going this concept would've have some time.to grow and develop, but instead it feels like I watched a scatter brained first draft

>>150264060
>Pan is an amazing graphic designer with a striking art style
He's a unique enough artist and not half bad at caricature but also a complete dogshit plotter

>>150264913
>I read Pan's comic and it was far better
the moment it left industry in-jokes it came to a screeching halt

>>150267712
>getting a lot of boss baby vibes from this

>>150271239
Nice. Going to bookmark that for later

>>150263796 (OP)
I reeeeeeally don't like the art style and the concept isn't that good to being with. I'm surprised he didn't start small and slowly move up like most animators and instead went straight into episode length cartoon pilot. It's like a first time game dev making an MMO right off the bat like the results were obvious from the get go, it's just a miracle it's finished at all.

>>150268717
So thats what happened to Ken, always wondered why he was dropped from the podcast

>>150271239
No. He's appreciative of the view count at 39:00. He also plugged with the website which is key to understand anything about the pilot. You would think he would plug that in the bumpers instead of T SHIRTS. But, the pilot is PG and the bios section still has official lewd art and fanart up so he MIGHT wanna expunge some of that if he wants to pitch this around. He literally has a pic of Milky Mint laughing at Stefany's small dick here. Also Wavebird is Bianca's sister which was never explained. And why does Bianca have a naming convention of the IRL's if she's a human? Neat playlists here too

https://www.lokiirl.com/roster#/milky-mint-synastry/

Also support him by buying a reasonably priced $23 dollar shirt. Those are hot topic prices!

>>150269255
>The original plotline was going to be that Loki was Pan and the cultists hunting him were Pan cultists trying to bring their God into reality through the system of IRL.
That sounds way fucking cooler than what we got

>>150269800
haha what a dirty no talent nigger

>>150271736
>if she's a human?
he is half human

>>150271795
Many such cases. Concept seldom meets execution. Especially when autists are involved

>>150264060
He’s a shit graphic designer

>>150271811
>>150271866
Again, you continuing to call him autistic at every turn like someone trying way too hard to fit in makes him look paradoxically justified in his shitty behavior and makes you look like plants.

>>150271239
Are you people used to these kind of autists? Cause I'm not. Does he always talk this way, like a teenage girl that had too much sugar? I find Pan's hyperventilating and obnoxiousness completely weird and unbearable since I hang out with normal people, not cases of aspergers. I feel like either running away or punching him in the face whenever he spergs out and he keeps using that garbage lingo like a hippy, except hippies are calm.

He got called out for being too far up his own ass and ignoring advice. Who told him that clearly isn't used to babysitting autists and similar manchildren.
https://youtu.be/uLMjNFlSWJ8?t=14068

>>150272572
Does it make you proud, to feel better than people?

>>150263796 (OP)
Not only does it suck but once again its Pan negging his fat girlfriend by writing her as a depressed failure who he insists desperately needs his manipulate and weak words of support to make it okay that both of them are such losers. Pan isnt even a loser if he wants to be, the guy’s had a pretty great career running his own cartoon review show for almost a decade, yet the only way he knows how to interact with a girlfriend is to pick who he thinks is the most depressed one out of an art circle (not a bad strategy for finding women who will respond positively to love), and then he elevates them to the level of project partner just to have them play his depressed fat loser failing artist girlfriend who hates herself, just so his dumbass self-insert can hug her and say ‘yes in fact you are a loser, but im a loser too, and its okay that we’re losers because we’re a couple and that makes it great (so if you break up with me then youre just another nobody, you being with me is the only thing that makes your life okay)!’ No one wants to see that, its clearly desperate negging, his insistence on a constant theme of loserdom isnt fun for anyone, the way its all just a cheap metaphor for his own life fighting for attention in front of a computer, its just awful. And word of advice, if you really have the heart to save a sad girl (or trans person i guess?) from loneliness, call her beautiful, fuck her well, treat her sometimes, help her make some money so she finds some of that missing control and autonomy, and DONT FUCKING DRAW HER AS A SAD FAT BITCH AND MAKE HER PLAY ‘SAD FAT BITCH’ IN YOUR PRODUCTION OF ‘WEIRD LOSER AND FAT BITCH!’

>>150263796 (OP)

I personally feel the exposition could have been more natural

>>150272658
Nta but yes most people’s self image is partially related to a set of standards

>>150272473
ANOTHER Wavebird fanart that looks better than actual Wavebird

>>150272658
Don't get upset, Pan. People are finally talking about you again, just like you wanted.

>>150272658
Yes it makes me feel proud not having to deal with Pan as my boss. Imagine this spastic millennial thats talks like a zoomer and gen-alpha being your boss ordering you around.

>>150272928
I don't know much about the creator's life but that all sounds like a very toxic relationship

>>150270718
> [Jet Set Radio, FLCL, Powerpuff Girls, Panty and Stocking, Scott Pilgrim, Kill La Kill, Gorillaz, Hazbin Hotel, include other widget series here]
For what its worth these things are great but Pan is just an awful artist imitating those things poorly without understanding them

Zenshu
Hero Inside
Di-Gata Defenders
Huntik
Digimon
Ben 10
Megaman Battle Network

Pan you stubborn piece of shit. You review shows yet you learn nothing from your own advice.

>>150272928
do you have proof of this or are you making it up to have something to be mad at

>>150273119
Do you need an answer? Honestly, faking outrage on Pan is so pathetic. There are way more REAL reasons to be mad at him! Why boogieman in your head? This is unconstructive hatred

>>150272928
stop projecting
Pan is single, Bianca is his OC, who come from sarcastic bitch to a girlfailure because it's more popular and relatable nowadays, nothing more

>>150272572
>Pan imediatelly changes to a lighter voice and then get pissy when called out and starts spouting "troll" like some 2008 retard.
God he's such an estrogen-filled retard, what a faggot. He knows, he even felt embarrasement but tried to play it off as arrogance.

>>150273094
He’s pitched this story and character dynamic for years with different comics and shorts, and he’s run through three different girlfriends i believe, playing the role of the girl. Does he ever get to chapter 2 of these stories, by the way? Has he ever written it where they start winning? Whats the finale, are they on top of the world, or after all these years has he only written the part where theyre losers?

>>150273099
He's only trying to imitate the "vibe" while sticking to the one artstyle he insists on doing, which doesn't work. Especially because he doesn't know how to balance his designs. All of them are lopsided and awkward, not knowing which features to exaggerate and which ones to simplify.

>>150273164
when does this happen

>>150272483
Wtf are you going on about anon?

>>150273228
Nice edit

>>150273203
Better proportion choices would also help. >>150272584
I know a lot of people can do big heads right like Sonic having forearms be 1/2 the length of a head and hands covering 2/3rds of the face consistently. But, I feel like characters being 2 and 1/3rd head tall is just too much for cuteness or sex appeal

>>150273236
>he's schizophrenic
Nevermind.

I'm happy for him, maybe one day he might actually get his show to air on Adult Swim then stream next day on HBO Max

>>150269121
>you can vicariously appreciate how cool it would be to have your dream project finally brought to life
If I were an aspiring animator, yes

>>150273222
Bot detected.

>>150263796 (OP)
Why was this even made? The pitch in front of gendy and lazlo was a top teir lol
>>150271239
>5hrs
please someone gimme a tl;dw, was he really seething?

>>150263796 (OP)
If you like Pan, you’re more likely to like this, but it feels too Pan.
To compare, it would be like if Smiling Friends was much more Newgrounds and OneyPlays references instead of it being more background or blended in better

>>150273335
He got paid 200 bucks for the pitch livestream and used it to start this

>>150273353
>embarrass yourself for life for $200
considering it finally released, it was probably worth it to him

>>150273335
No. He was just telling self deprecating jokes and saying I don't know how to do this and I'm not great at world building, I have no advice, IT'S GREAT! And a lot of times said that artists ghosted him for months for few seconds of animation so he ended up doing 80% of it himself.

Also fun fact, he tried to get Dana Snyder to voice the announcer, the Mega64 guy was his 3rd choice. Also Micheal Kovack also auditioned for a character but, Pan turned him down because he didn't fit. I also assume he wanted to save money

>>150271239
>"You're far too up your own ass and ignore every advice. Goodnight" - No, noooohhh I listen to advice. Why are you being so judgemental you little biiaaaaaaatch?
He watched too much Helluva Boss's Blitzo with that last part, didn't he? What a faggot.

https://youtu.be/gLVU2jHUBeI?t=77

A bunch of the background characters are a million times better looking than all the ugly browns, darker browns and green people that get shoved to the front for the audience to see.
The 3 characters I highlighted here could work well as main character designs and secondary characters.

>>150273501
Literally underlines the most generic designs there.

Look out guys, we got an expert troll here

>>150273536
Hello, Pan. Who drew those designs? cause it clearly wasn't you. When are you going to go to a mental hospital and get something for your ADHD? a nice belt on the ass from your ma or pa perhaps. A nice slipper on the ass from your grandma, maybe?

>>150273542
Don't pass your generational trauma on to me boomer. Your paranoid delusions are clear evidence that beating your children for no reason is bad and the age of consent should be 18 everywhere

>>150273536
generic designs stand out in a world where everything is exaggerated

>>150273565
Bianca is pretty okay looking

>>150273501
The fatlard that comes up just 1 second after the background crowd really speaks volumes about how Pan is incapable of beauty.

>>150273571
No Pan she isn't. She's fat and midget looking, just like all 3 of your girlfriends. Only her color palette and her eyes are ok. The rest isn't. Go back to the redneck village where you came from, Pan.

>>150273574
The weeb is literally a fat chick wearing an aheago shirt. Bro has nothing but bad faith criticism

>>150273571
I wouldn't even masterbate to her.

>150273583
I'm just gonna stop talking to you and let you be mad by yourself. I win

>>150273601
You sound like the mad one

>>150273562
Pretty sure Pan's parents are right-wingers who wanted him to work at their family store instead of this animation crap. Though I have to say his father is kind of based on his opinion that the homeless and drug addicts don't deserve sympathy

>>150273562
>>150273601
After hearing you on a stream I have no reservations that this isn't you. GET MENTAL HELP YOU IMMATURE IDIOT. I've had 12 year olds who behave more educated than you and you look like a 30 or even 50 year old. >>150269800
Did you start doing drugs lately? soft drugs? LSD? did you start spray painting without a mask you idiot? I've seen a person who looks exactly like you, he got cancer and died very suddenly cause the moron along with not going to a hospital also consumed sugar and kept spray painting with METAL PAINT without a mask.

What's wrong with you? Do you suffer some kind of mental problem? you behave like a nepobaby know nothing yet you're not a Hollywood jew. Nobody beat you up as a kid? You got beaten up too much in elementary school? You talk exactly exactly like somebody hiding something, you talk exactly like an anxious moron pretending he's hot shit, but he doesn't notice that a normal person can immediately tell you're embarrased, anxious and don't know what you're doing.
When will you behave like an adult?

>>150273599
This. Pan, you really need to work on your proportions if you want free lewds of your OC's. Look at basic head height and perspective tutorials and use that to cook short stacks. You aged everyone up so your old porn you drew wouldn't be weird, we know it.

The world is full of good OC's, it's very easy to pass art up when people are just better at it than you. You got by because people liked you, if you wanna steal people's attention you're going to have to put in the work

The pilot got featured/front paged on newgrounds

>>150273694
Fucking how?

>>150273709
connections will do that

>>150273694
>newgrounds
That's not the accolade you think it is anymore

>>150273656
I've too seen people that look exactly like Pan in that image and they were only 30. No it's not LSD. It's clear the answer is weed. Stoner fags have become an epidemic with their 420blaze it memes-jokes and if you keep doing weed every single goddamn day you'll turn into a skeleton. Please don't attempt to lose weight by smoking weed.

>>150273694
>0 / 20 Exp. on newgrounds

I'm so disappointed Pan is a fake NG kid wtf.

>>150273651
KWAB

>>150273709
NG is a clique. Pan has clout so he'll get top treatment.

>>150273733
Come to think about it, has Pan ever talked about Newgrounds animations like Eddsworld or Madness Combat?

>>150273742
This.

NG is the Bauhaus of modern animation, and not in a good way.

>>150273589
This is what you call bad faith criticism, Pan? Quit pretending, you know that character is ugly.
Do you need a Kitchen Nightmares episode for your project, Pan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SatIm8qe82g

Here's a show that did much better than yours and still gets criticism, but the criticism isn't as big and one sided as yours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi9of7nOdy0

Here's a bunch of shows that did your same idea but better:
Zenshu
Hero Inside
Di-Gata Defenders
Megaman Battle Network
Huntik
Digimon
Ben 10

>>150273793
No.

>>150273793
He has stated one of the buildings in his pilot is literally a building from Alien Hominid

>>150273800
>>150273542
>>150273574
fucking schizo retard with shit taste lmao

150273894
This isn't Pan.
Shit taste ragebait bot. Ragebait bots use a lack of capitals and punctuation and words such as "schizo" and acronyms such as "lmao + lol" but never something more inventive.

>>150273894
Anon’s being fairly bombastic about it but he’s totally right Pan has this huge problem using his cartoons as proxies/metaphors for his own relationships, which causes him to include his girlfriend in the comic but still depict her as a depressed failing fat beehive-haircut sour bitch, which isnt representation like he thinks it is, because he is insisting on her worst traits and even enforcing them in such a way the girlfriends keep leaving him because he’s essentially picking on them and bot realizing it because he thinks its representation.

>>150274060
How many girlfriends does he have to recast into his same cartoon co-star before you’d think there was a problem?

>Ragebait bots use a lack of capitals and punctuation
kek you guys are crazy

>>150274001
I think you're mistaken. Pan wrote Bianca over a decade ago to be a self insert of a wannabee cartoonist but, with a vagina. Years before he got a crumb of pussy to make fun of him. She hasn't been remotely written to be more than the same thing, a girl with low self confidence being hyped up by Pan's more confident half.

It's tempting to blame women for everything but, you have to hold a man accountable for his own ambitions that just end up being uninteresting

>>150274085
bot detected

>>150273694
Nearly 4.5 stars
Kek. I've seen far better animations barely scrape 3.5
It's hilarious how much ball gargling is going on with this pilot outside of this board

>>150273800
Long pause no answer from you, Pan. Should we take that as an answer, RebelTaxi?

Do I need to write your subconscious thoughts out?
>RebelTaxi: I know, but I can't change or rather I mentally told myself I can't change. I repeat: I mentally told myself I can't. The show is supposed to be one way, not the other. The character is supposed to be fat and insecure and a jobber. The character isn't supposed to be Kim Possible. Why? ... because I decided that way. It's not relatable to me to write about a mary sue, it's not relatable to me to write a Lara Croft character since I'll never date one. It's not what I know. Even my cool character is kind of a loser, how could I possibly make the girl not a loser just like me, let alone a more depressing insecure loser than me? It's not what I know and I refuse to know more, I'm incapable of knowing more. Yes I'm incapable of learning, that's what I told myself.

If you write again your typical "You don't understand me, boomer!!! If my family had been left-wing I wouldn't be in this position. You're just like my father who hates me and wants me to be a wagecuck forever" except much more dishonest and full of deflecting from yourself to avoid your own problems then I'll take it as a yes I am 100% right on the money.

>>150268396
>>150268429
Here's your criticism

and here are your solutions:
Zenshu
Hero Inside
Di-Gata Defenders
Megaman Battle Network
Huntik
Digimon
Ben 10

150274110
lol

wtf is happening in here

youd think that criticizing children's cartoons for a "living" would give you a thinker skin towards criticism

>>150273866
Yeah he just likes any random game he finds

>>150273694
THE NEWGROUNDS TO ADULT SWIM PIPELINE IS REAL!

>>150274183
Parasocial incel is really mad about life and just making up stuff to be mad about. Has bad taste. It's whatever, I think pretty much all that can be said is said already. Now we just wait for episode 2. He's writing the 2 and 3 scripts now

>>150274191
thicker* well he has "thick skin" equivalent to a Runescape child calling you noob and troll. You can definitely tell when something hits him, but the most telling fact is when he ignores shows that have his same ideas and better execution.

>>150274230
No you aren't, Pan.

>>150273115
>You review shows yet you learn nothing from your own advice.
That's the problem. In order to learn how to make something good consumption isn't enough. You have to make something terrible see how much it sucks then try again fresh. Most people get this out of the way early in their careers when sunk cost fallacy and peer gaslighting isn't as severe.

>>150274161
>>150274183
>>150274191
bots

>>150274093
I dont blame women for any of it. I blame Pan. The girls are each just normal young artists who just havent made it, yet Pan keeps slotting them into his pre-made ‘this is what these girls are like - depressed chubby and cynical, and stuck in depression without me’, asking them each to professionally fill this role for him. Imagine you date and artist girl, and she says ‘i have this storyline about a boyfriend and girlfriend, where the boyfriend is depressed and unemployed and basically hates himself because he keeps failing, and his girlfriend pats him on the back saying its okay he’s a loser because she loves him. The girlfriend is mostly inspired by me, and the boy can represent you because he’s already fat and sad’. Thats not nice.

I wonder what Jim thinks of it

>150274287
Okay now I know you're just crying wolf. Pan doesn't play boyfriend. His gfs are just girls who bully him until they get bored, he had an infamous stream where they talked about a pregnancy scare that was a bit and one of his gfs transitioned. This is out of your lane pal. You're way behind on the meta. Go to a Vivziepop thread or something

>>150274323
I wonder if he even talks to Pan.

>>150274287
Indeed and if you ask him "Am I at least portrayed in a endearing way, are my flaws entertaining in-world?" and his response is "Uhhh...." then you got your answer.

Zenshu actually takes that character and twists it into something with pros. Just like Garfield. You don't see Garfield being depressed.

>>150274241
A person who often barks and trash talks back ... is extremely affected when he ignores something ... when he ignores something that's when you can tell it really spoke some harsh realities to him which he doesn't want to face.
When he ignores things that's when it really hurts for him.

Stop ignoring these shows, Pan:
Hero Inside
Zenshu
Di-Gata Defenders
Megaman Battle Network
Huntik

>>150274331
>Pan doesn't play boyfriend
Yet then you immediately refer to his girlfriends as his girlfriends with...
>His gfs are just girls who bully him until they get bored
After incorrectly accusing me of attacking the women, you immediately blame them as all toxic to him and who just 'bully' him and leave him high and dry,
>he had an infamous stream where they talked about a pregnancy scare that was a bit and one of his gfs transitioned.
So? Pregnancy scares are real, a girlfriend transitioning doesn't mean they're just bullies to him. I know not everything is someone's 'fault' but this is also a pattern of dating people who don't need him and give him shit, because he jumps into relationships that don't work and just hopes he can kill them with kindness, and it has continuously not worked to overcome the fact they don't really like him that much. It's a big guess on my part, for sure, but that pattern can apply here too as much as 'he's great and they're just all awful'. That's still his responsibility as a man to deal with, nobody is impressed if you keep dating bullies, that's just your problem and it can easily seep into your work when each of these girls he makes his cartoon girlfriend in the show.
>This is out of your lane pal. You're way behind on the meta.
So you're going by fan consensus that his relationships and problems are never his fault, but are only the fault of three different women who all coincidentally acted the same way, that he's not responsible for picking and dating? Doesn't make sense

I doubt you're in this thread Pan, but if you are, careful with this schizo or he'll Selena you

>>150274323
Jim is way more kind than Pan deserves

>>150274455
>starts talking to the camera
schizo behavior itself

>>150274474
where do you think we are?

>>150273574
I still can't get over the way that Pan thinks "sketchy" means every IRL should have random intersecting lines jutting off them. He has such an easy way to do it too. Humans have thick, solid outlines. IRLs get sketchy, lighter outlines and linework. It's that easy.

How the fuck do you work on this concept for 20 years and not work this shit out?

>>150274493
>accuses other people of schizophrenia then when displays schizo behavior declares it normal and not worth commenting on
Pull yourself together man

>>150274503
I know, its such a bad effect because that 'sketchiness' is just amateur unconfident linework. It's not actually how everyone who knows how to draw with a pencil draws. And he's spilling the beans breaking the fourth wall by showing not telling, and then he immediately betrays the rule by showing dozens of CGI and multimedia IRLs that don't have sketchy lines. He's too proud of this amateur idea of his, it's not worth bragging over and including in your work when all it does is degrade its quality

>>150274379
Natsuko Hirose is represented correctly by actually being the animation director who gives the orders around and the boss endears her while the employees find her creepy and unbearable. That's how you write these sort of negative characters.

Like that post talking about Naruto and Ash Ketchum says that he's seen his fair share of losers just as I did, but Bianca & Loki are very boring and unlikable.
I've seen loser characters in Undergrads and Downtown and even some shows attempting to portray winner characters as losers such as Danny Phantom and Peter Parker by making them get bullied or kill their family members and live with their aunt or grandmother during college or work wagecuck jobs.
But Pan's Loki and Bianca and her other iterations of her are beyond the normal threshold of losers.

There was actually an episode in Downtown completely focusing on this where they try to get the loser MC a date by lowering his standards and it showed him that by relation he's a winner compared to what chicks were being shoved down his throat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI53Mm3g3Hg&list=PLjLt9Ko9Xnsicvt79T6plaoDguyPpzbuM&index=7

This is his usual friend girl which he hangs out with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV2NcQ1_qWo&list=PLjLt9Ko9Xnsicvt79T6plaoDguyPpzbuM&index=8

Then there's Mission Hell where they do something a little different ... instead of the main character being the loser ( he still is a loser) they introduce an even bigger loser than him, his little brother.
But even by comparison the 2 MCs in Undergrads look like losers compared to the big brother from Mission Hill
And the 2 MCs looks like winners compared to the little brother.

You know the most ironic thing? These are all 13 episode only cartoons with swears and adult subject matters in them without it being Family Guy/Simpsons' art style and they handle the drama far better than Helluva Boss and any other adult indie cartoon full of swears and character drama.

>>150274503
You're not wrong. Even just having bits of color peaking through the line art would fix this. But every character and background has thick outlines and "sketchy" just means little hair thin line aura around. So on top of the colors blending you would need an HD monitor and be really close to the screen to tell what lines are "sketchy." That's a hard to read design. He's interviewed big cartoon artists, C.H. Greenblat, Maxwell Atoms, Tara Billinger, John R. Dilworth, at any point you would think he would ask for some tips on readable designs. But, of course the cringe persists

>>150263796 (OP)
Many /co/ anons have been following Pan-Pizza for years, so we're aware of how lengthy the journey was to get a Loki IRL pilot made and are happy for the guy.

Problem is his pilot just way too self-indulgent and lacking in enough substance to make you hungry for "more episodes." It's cool as a stylish one-off project, but not much else.

>>150274560
Mission Hill* probably the more cartoony looking of the 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vhHquWjO-Y

and Undergrads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XAY3gWQoE

>>150274560
Yeah if Pan really wants to tell a story about two losers who secretly internally are winners, he would unironically be better off introducing the 'loser' girl on her first day at cartoon city (or whatever it is), and she's bold and confident in her lowly position but maybe fails at the start of the first episode, then because of that she sort of falls in with this strange 'losers club' that's actually really fucking awesome and run by this pretty cool king loser who is Pan. And they get to go out and be underdogs and have subversive personal victories and win their niche and climb the ladder, but all from this awesome secret home base where they're all partying and feel on top of the world, and use that to go kick ass in their unique ways.
Yeah if loserdom is endearing, then its because they've ever got better heart and friends, because they always 'get theirs' like The Dude taking Big Lebowski's rug, or because loser world is actually way better and more real than the conniving and hostile winners' world. Here, Pan keeps writing a story about two losers with no other friends outside of them, walking around the streets consoling themselves for objectively losing. It sucks.

Or we could go self-aware and farcical with it and make it Waiting for Godot but it's just two loser artists talking to themselves about an audience and authority who doesn't know who they are, isn't present, and doesn't respond to them

>>150274649
Undergrads is pretty cool, hadn't seen it yet. Love the voice acting and low-energy cadence

>>150274627
The bitter irony is that Pan hopes this will be picked up by a studio but, the point of a pilot isn't to show off your skills if you have them, it's to work with people to get a decent concept across. This is the exuivelent of one student doing the whole group project. By doing all the work himself he shows he has difficulty working with others. The flaws in the pilot are writing so you would need someone else to take the reigns. And the style is neat but, Pan hasn't studied the basics enough to be an illustrator people will drop others to get.

Think about it, if Pan got this picked up and they decided to get a new art director so it's even better and then got new writers what would Pan's job on the show even be with no comic to base it off? Even Daron Nefcy had a comic for Star vs. If it's "Pokemon with drawings" like he said on Newgrounds, why would someone give him a show when they can just lease the rights to distribute Pokemon, Yokai Watch, Metabots or a lesser anime that already exists?

The biggest chance Pan has is his connections but, not only is he bad at keeping them, he left his friends who kept up tabs for him and if a studio asked them if he was a good hire, could they honestly say yes? And risk their position? Pan is a great editor but, he's not the greatest cartoonist of our time. He couldn't even draw a comic for than a few months when animation reviews was his main source of income

I do feel bad though, I don't want to make it sound like there's no out for this guy. I just don't see this project working the way it is. It should probably an entirely different project, just drop the whole concept and rethink the basic idea from scratch. It really doesn't have to be inside a computer. You could tell the same story in a totally realistic film about people who train racing dogs.

>>150274890
>could they honestly say yes? And risk their position? Pan is a great editor but, he's not the greatest cartoonist of our time. He couldn't even draw a comic for than a few months when animation reviews was his main source of income
No kidding. He isn't jack of all trades talent master with a role nobody else can fulfill but him ... maybe he'd be like Matt Groening an executive or co-executive do onothing... or a creative consultant if they want to be assholes. The thing is his personality is exceptionally unprofessional like somebody else said "Pewdiepie but worse" "Worse than an average eceleb" Working with Rebeltaxi would be similar to working with Digibrony and MrEnter. A bunch of people who aren't even that old already stated that they can't stand his hyperactive personality.
>>150275024
The concept is there, ironically it's been done to death. I mean it's right there: >>150273115 and there >>150273099
You could call it Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends meets Pokemon , just like Megaman Battle Network.

It's his execution that nobody can get behind to support him on. >>150268396
Nobody wants the show with its current flaws right now. Even the dumbest executive possible will comment "So when does she win?" "Why would children want to buy toys and merchandise of two losers with no comedy in them? Garfield is funny, these two are not. And I'm personally more of a Heathcliff fan than a Garfield one."

>>150273693
Man, Rouge really is some damn good character design.

>>150274287
I thought it was extremely obvious that Bianca was supposed to represent Pan. Like...I didn't even question it for a second. Loki is Pan's idealized impish side, and Bianca is Pan's reality.
How is media literacy this bad these days?

>>150275024
what

>>150268396
>Loki mentioning he's a villain yet also refuse to elaborate on why he wants to stop being a villain and what did he do in the past to be a villain.
I'm stealing this by the way, it's really good

>>150274503
I think the intersecting lines are fine, but they're often difficult to see. We should be able to distinguish IRLs at a glance. The brush he was using was also kind of sketchy in that the edges were a bit textured like charcoal or a crayon, but it wasn't extreme enough that you could really see it unless there was a close up of characters. In a previous thread I mentioned there should be line boil on the IRLs which would be an easy way to set them apart. It turns out there WAS boil, but it's extremely subtle so I missed it. I think he could dial all of those elements up so no matter what background the IRLs are against, what the action, what the angle, we should know who is who. The IRLs should boil so hard they look like Dr. Katz style squigglevision.

>>150275269
4channers were never the brightest bulbs in the room, most like to project their own problems onto others

>>150275237
She has the perfect anthro female form.

>>150273571
>>150273693
Rouge and Bianca almost have the same color palette, so at least the color palette for Bianca is fine. It's the problem that Astro Boy/PPG designs aren't fappable even to midget lovers unless you age them up just a little, stretch their proportions just a tiny bit. And Bianca is nowhere near as cute as the PPG. Pan's girl character doesn't look innocent, it looks like a no nonsense asshole asian and her personality almost matches. It's also the problem the humans look like the pokemons themselves.

Of course the ideal body would be the Pokemon girls where they look like miniature 20 year olds. Their proportions attract a lot of artists since non-midget miniature adults with young faces, with boobs, ass, abs, can exist in reality, it's just that they're rare. But even with that everyone would still complain about the writing just like everyone does for the Pokemon anime.

And the cartoon characters again they don't catch me like the G1 Pokemons did ... they look worse than G5 pokemon... I liked G1 Pokemons cause they looked like animals and not overly stylized and mecha looking like Digimons, that's how Palworld managed to be only successful Pokemon clone by actually copying G1's Pokemons designs to the point you think Palworld was designed by the same artists behind G1 Pokemons. Pan's humans and imaginary friends from Foster do not leave any impression on me.

>>150273709
Is it really that surprising? It's a shitty pilot but it's still a feature length pilot which almost always get featured.

What is it about autists that attract more mentally downtrodden autists

>>150273571
you've heard of bean mouth but what of boomerang mouth?

>>150275345
The intersecting lines coming off pointy parts only works if that's Bianca's style, specifically. Every artist doing it makes no sense, because that's not how everyone draws. It's not how most peple draw, period. If anything, there's creative room there to have OCs who are so well drawn that you can't see their sketchy bits and that makes them indistinguishable from humans. Or you could have very low skilled artists with color bleed and lots of repeated, overlapping lines because their art lacks confidence and control.

>>150274548
>he's spilling the beans breaking the fourth wall by showing not telling, and then he immediately betrays the rule by showing dozens of CGI and multimedia IRLs that don't have sketchy lines
Yeah, this really fucking bothered me. It seems obviously that the scene was finished first and then he came up with the sketchy lines/neon skin bit afterwards because he received a critique that it was hard to tell them apart, but he didn't want to redo the scene because he says
>You can tell IRLs because they have sketchy lines and neon skin
and then the perspective cuts to a train showing multiple characters who are obviously IRLs but no sketchy lines or neon skin. I get why he wouldn't have to want to reanimate that, but telling the audience one thing and then showing them something that contradicts it makes it difficult to understand the world.

Also, when all of the colors of the animation are super bright and vibrant, it's really tough to tell what he means when he says "neon skin". Loki is a shade of green, but not quite neon green. And most of the IRLs that we see aren't neon either.

>>150275399
wym

>>150275303
Oh uh
>I don't want to make it sound like there's no out for this guy.
Meaning I dont want to make it sound like Pan has no career options*
>It should probably be* an entirely different project
meaning he should rethink it from the ground up, he might find great success doing that
>it really doesn't have to be inside a computer
The story is about people in some computer-cartoon world, with digital pens as weapons, using their drawings to compete for success in an overpopulated world of too many competitors (this is a metaphor for being an online artist competing for attention, success, and career on an internet with so many people competing to do the same thing, right?)
>You could tell the same story in a totally realistic film about people who train racing dogs.
Like instead of drilling into the obvious reality you're talking about yourself sitting in your chair trying really hard to find an audience on the internet, you could use any trainer-athlete dynamic to capture all those same ideas of competition, intimacy or bond between the two, symbiosis, frustration, loser-winner dichotomy etc, without it being a blatant story about you trying to get your internet cartoon show off. That way the audience doesn't have to assume you're manipulating them by casting yourself as a hero in a market where their attention is what you need

>>150275417
He could have did the Ed Edd Eddy squiggly lines for the Imaginary Friends OCs or even make them phase in and out of their actual sketch art where you draw 7 different construction lines till you get the final product right. He either didn't think of that or refused to do it for no reason.

>>150270235
fine ill do it

>>150275451
>when all of the colors of the animation are super bright and vibrant, it's really tough to tell what he means when he says "neon skin".
Yeah the neon skin is such a curveball because it never applies even once. Not only are his 'natural' skin tones nearly neon, but he shows the Mona Lisa (hilarious and cool, by the way. Best piece of fun in the pitch) who is the least neon figure in the whole thing! It's an easy fix, just get rid of Loki popping in and overexplaining things altogether! Then by the way we leave an obvious suspicion that we don't know who's an IRL and who isn't! Not to get ahead of myself but possibly s transcendental finale where its revealed Loki is the real person and IRL, because he's the person Bianca created and lived through as her true self. Not because Bianca isn't flesh and blood, but because Loki is who she lived her true life through. Some existential metaphor for the way we do truly live in dreams

>>150275451
>You can tell IRLs because they have sketchy lines and neon skin... or they look like THAT

And it just shows a train of paintings, CGI and regular people. I think that was just his way of throwing his hands in the air and telling us to deal with it

>>150272584
The design on the left is so awful.

>>150275582
>if I say it's a joke then my character redesigns won't be bad anymore!

>>150275582
Really, its mostly the proportions. The head is the worst part.

>>150275617
What's inside of her head?

>>150275582
Dude imagine if he learned how to draw fingers

>>150275655
Cum

>>150274684
I agree. Starting with Bianca being an underdog loser who is trying but failing (partially due to lack of skills and experience, but partially due to lack of confidence) would have been smart. We ended up glossing over the whole bit where she finds Loki and how that turns things around for her.

I get that in a pilot you want to hook the audience with action, but I think it might have been better to do a flash forward/flash backward thing. Start with a fight to set up expectation and the stakes, then flash back to her starting off on her artistic journey full of ambition and heart but being a total loser anyway. She can either learn how the whole IRL system works, or show her in the process of working on IRLs which would help explain the system to the audience without having to outright tell them. It would also give the audience the opportunity to get to know her character and give them a reason to give a shit about her.

Show how she found Loki and how that relationship develops (why did they partner up? What's in it for her? What's in it for Loki? Is this a permanent pairing or temporary? When will the relationship end? Are there reservations on either side? Is adopting an IRL that you didn't design yourself taboo in this world?). Show her discovering the whole wifi curse thing. Show how powerful it is but also actually show the emotional/mental toll it takes on both characters so it helps explain why she'd be reluctant to use it. Then Bianca and Loki can be challenged to the fight that they start the episode off in and let that take its course.

The voice acting was the worst part, also the characters were so overly stylized I could not tell what was why

>>150275471
The lack of creativity is what really sours me on the whole thing. Like he had enough presence of mind about the premise to have 3d modeled, rotoscoped, and claymation OCs in this thing, but he just did not fucking commit to the animation possibilities that he could have. Like a digitally illustrated OC getting hit so hard their layers separate. Or a painted OC being reduced to a Jackson Pollock paint splatter. Instead, all of Loki's losses just end in blood and dismemberment. It's less like Roger Rabbit, where cartoon violence is recovered from in cartoon ways, and more like these are living, flesh and blood creatures that just respawn, which completely undermines the Artist-and-Drawing gimmick

>>150275617
I want to pop that head like it's a balloon

>barely managed to crack 100k views
Pan should start namefagging here because /co/ seems to be the only place to actually give a shit about his cartoon.

>>150275783
What went wrong?

>>150275417
>there's creative room there to have OCs who are so well drawn that you can't see their sketchy bits and that makes them indistinguishable from humans. Or you could have very low skilled artists with color bleed and lots of repeated, overlapping lines because their art lacks confidence and control.
The idea that OCs could all have slightly different "sketchy" styles to represent the myriad of ways artists draw is extremely cool, but it would also require an illustrator with enough experience, discipline, and skill to be able to understand approaches to drawing aside from their own and be able to replicate it. That's not Pan. He'd need to hire an artist from SCAD or SVA or CalArts to do that sort of character design, and animating that would require a team of very talented people since it would be difficult to establish an overall style guide.

I think Pan needs an editor who doubles as a tard wrangler.

>>150275556
Yeah, or pull a Love Death and Robots switcheroo where the avatar is really the real person, and the real person is really the avatar (similar to what you just said, but slightly different setup and takeaway).
Also, how does Pan plan to deal with sketchy lines/neon skin vs non-sketchy lines/non-neon skin when humans start boning the OCs and, you know, reproducing.

>>150275791
Years of bi monthly vids spent to work on this, rarely talked about new cartoons in a time of indie pilots where the good will could have benefited him, no podcast friends hype, no recent cameos in other people's vids, no plan for hype besides release it when it's done and let the Spanish VA for Homer Simpson do all the hype. Expecting Latinos to have his back after defending Primos and moving away from Texas to Chicago to be with his trans partner.

Honestly he might need to ask Vivziepop for a shout-out on bluesky if he wants it to move, she was on the podcast once. But he's probably to "shy" for that. He even ruined his relationship with Zone sama in a joking way but, seemed very impactful

Another better looking character than Bianca and most of the frontline characters.

>>150275742
It was easier to see in the 2nd half of the episode. The first half was extremely visually cluttered and it was hard to track what was going on, who was who, etc. That coupled with the fact that the editing was so ADHD made this extremely frustrating to watch. My brain hasn't been poisoned by TikTok, so I didn't find it stimulating...it was just noise.
The 2nd half become a lot more visually and narratively coherent. The animation also looked a lot better and the action was easier to track. I assume this is around the point that he started to onboard more outside help because there's a bit more cohesion both in how the designs sit in space as well as the way they move.

>>150275999
That's like the one decent design

>>150275999
That's actually a subtle Pearl Jam reference! One of my favorites

>>150275696
Yeah tons of good questions this pilot can ask. I like your sense of storytelling. It might be interesting if Loki has this strange interest in Bianca, and then we can push-pull on the question of if Loki is actually just a fun-loving friend of underdogs, or if he's some type of manipulative pimp or easy path guy. Lots of interesting things there.

>>150275999
>>150276037
>>150276035
I resent it because he found it from the same ytmnd .gifs I did and that's not fucking clever
I may be biased though

>>150275947
>Also, how does Pan plan to deal with sketchy lines/neon skin vs non-sketchy lines/non-neon skin when humans start boning the OCs and, you know, reproducing.
Plan?

>>150273048
Wavebird is hot, pan just sucks at drawing her

>>150276388
That's not hot

>>150276406
You're not hot

>>150276388
It's such a nothing design

>>150276422
OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

>>150276434
You're such a nothing design

>>150276239
>the question of if Loki is actually just a fun-loving friend of underdogs, or...
Right. He's supposed to be some sort of antihero, but all we see is him being a "nice guy". Having the audience constantly bounce between whether he's actually on Bianca's side or if he's just using her would be an interesting dynamic to explore and would give his character and their relationship more of a sense of arc.

Humans should have been black and white or desaturated, or toons should have been stylized and less human looking without looking like furshit

>>150276422
I'm way hotter than that, I gotta say from a personal perspective this is the worst time in my life you could have accused me of not being hot

>>150276448
And then we can transform that conflict into transcendence when we realize the scandalous, dangerous side of life is the stuff we've been looking for, and that Loki IS the danger Bianca had been asking for, and maybe even though she didn't know Loki until she met him, she had CREATED him beforehand just because she wanted to meet someone to help her with that thrill-seeking side of herself where she finds life
or something along those lines, just spitballing here

Does it state the way the two met? The partnership makes sense with Loki covering Bianca's emotional weaknesses so presumably she will become better from knowing him over time, but he doesn't seem to line up with what Bianca's particular tastes are. so I don't know why he exists as Loki instead of a busty vampire chick or something. Did Loki already exist and she just bonded with him instead of drawing him?

>>150276534
in the comic bianca just found him and adopted him

>>150276576
Thats it?

>>150276534
He spends all his time infodumping the setting and therefore wasting the mystery, instead of writing the personal character perspective that viewers emotionally relate to, in a way that lets the setting become an interesting and slowly revealed mystery. Think of something so simple as Loki and Bianca hiding somewhere talking to eachother without showing them fully on screen, and then at the end of the conversation they say something about Loki being a cartoon and we get a clear shot of him as a cartoon and her as a human walking out into the city together. Again, just spitballing. Like the moment-to-moment mysteries and intrigue that make it fun. No need to spill the beans ASAP like people wouldn't love to find out cartoons are made up of people's dreams in episode 3 or whatever

>>150268429
When you enter a sports/tournament themed show like this one you expect that cocky talented "wins by sheer determination rather than just talent alone" you usually get some chosen one underdog who's been kept a secret by his foster mother to add some backstory to him. It's present in every show like that. That's why people complained about Naruto & Ash Ketchum ruining the show, but Bianca & Loki ruin their own show even harder than Steven Universe ruins his own show. Fucks sake people were complaining about Megalobox not having good enough choreography and the final fight being skipped and both the protagonist and antagonist gimping themselves too much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo5ey3gucnI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0oOy04IeP8&list=PL0kQA61Pa8_698rg6OhfGZ2pzGuyxLqOa&index=24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHORaUmlqfU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CMLO2yqg2k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI5PmZH06gE&list=PLbIkVKJZuWZZw8uEfL8YAnwXhuu9zbmYq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3A3rKTZkps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6l9NHdWTFY

Often times people get tired of the sport itself and accidentally end up enjoying the story-driven B plot arc going on in the background, just like Pokemon. It's par for the course with these shows.
VERY RARELY do you get a show that gets both done correctly and doesn't end up being mediocre sloppa. I do miss sports cartoons, they used to be everywhere, especially in toy commercials.
I accidentally ended up watching Beyblade and Galactik Football myself and somehow managed to watch an entire season despite how mediocre they are cause they sometimes have some good scenes that take me by surprise and they're not as bad other shit cartoons like Naruto and Pokemon that pretend to be tournament based cartoons.
It's also really funny when non-tournament shows end up making better tournament sports-styled episodes such as Wakfu and Boondocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95nirdVr6M

I don't mean to flatter ourselves and I know this is some brutal criticism, but it's not out of the question to say this thread is the most attentive and intelligent source of productive criticism Pan may has had available for quite some time.

Why did Pan voice half the characters??
It's not like he's a good voice actor either.

>>150276745
Lack of funds

>>150276662
>that cocky talented "wins by sheer determination rather than just talent alone" you usually get some chosen one underdog who's been kept a secret by his foster mother to add some backstory to him.
Reminds me of One Piece too, and Superman Man of Steel, where both main characters are hidden out of a righteous sense of protection by their fathers until they mature enough to stand against their enemies

>>150276662
>>150268429
>>150268396
Jobless behavior

>>150276794
Go learn some real animation fundamentals instead of stalking these threads looking for people to kiss your ass, Pan

>>150276761
Use some ai filter or something.

>>150276879
>AI
cringe

>>150276898
Even professionals are using it a this point. Get with the times.

(Bot)150276794
Outt of my way bot behaviour.

>Watch the whole episode
>Loki & Bianca still don't win even 1 match
Seriously? Is Pan some kind of masochist or sadist? Give them a win you bastard, you never played a sports match in your life? not even korean Starcraft? not even League of Legends? Holy shit this nigger didn't play anything. What a mexican nignog who never played a football match in his life.

This is the first sports episode of Boondocks and how you do an entertaining Ed Edd Edy tier loser to winner arc while still (spoiler) and not making you feel too bad about it because it ends on something funny, but this is a one shot episode yet it does more development for the character in 21 minutes than Loki IRL does in 33 minutes for its own characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c316l37FaA

Also despite Loki IRL being all about animators there isn't a single time the 12 principles of animation get referenced.

>>150276898
I mean....in the end it turned out more shit and no voice actor was paid anyway soooo

>>150276898
This is the one case where it would be better.

>>150276933
I remember that episode. Yeah see? now that's pacing/story structure. The character actually feels like he's accomplishing something from first sucking ass for the first 10 minutes and then finally learning how to play correctly for the next 10 minutes.
There was none of that in Loki IRL.

>>150276739
That's what Vogelfag threads are like ... and also when /co/ remembers they can make comparisons to better shows. Only thing left would be for /co/ to start redrawing and rewriting Pan's comic, sadly that's where the quality ends since /co/ is a discussion board, not a production one.

>>150276912
name 5

I thought Loki was going to be like The Mask

>>150263855
/co/ would ask the same damn thing I don't see the issue.

>>150263855
Based on the women in his shows, gennedy would love it secretly

>>150274151
Call me a gay retard, and I don’t doubt that Pan browses here, considering his age, but what makes you assume he hasn’t replied to anything or if he isn’t OP to begin with?

>>150277720
okay, you're a gay retard

>>150263796 (OP)
Look at it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBoY9kKJwjw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoghPwAV3kw
Still the best thing he's ever made.

>>150273709
He’s an eceleb

>>150277720
He was in this thread for approximately 10 minutes. He hasn't replied to any of the criticism, he ignored it.

>>150273562
>>150273571
>>150273536
All of his few replies seem to be the immature ones where he says Bianca is an okay or fine character design and that the front and center characters look the part regardless of appeal.


He seems to have nothing to comment about the other shows that are being compared to his pilot such as Zenshu or the suggestion to make Bianca & Loki's characters and character chemistry more interesting. the pilot tells less than the comic itself.

It's worse than bad, it's boring

>>150278151
It could be half as long and it would still be boring

>>150275398
Mine didn't

>>150278496
share it with us

>>150278496
What were the production values? Because while Pan's look like garbage you can at least tell there was a modicum amount of effort put into it to try and make it look "professional"

>>150263855
>GREENLIT WELCOME TO THE INDUSTRY PAN!

>>150277986
>He was in this thread for approximately 10 minutes. He hasn't replied to any of the criticism, he ignored it.
Source: My ass.

>>150273694
It's not that hard to get Front paged on Newgrounds. Half the time a 5 second animation gets on there so of course a 30 minute pilot is going to get on there.

Nothing gets resolved by the end. Both Loki & Biance I mean Bianca lose despite pressing the "wi-fi/super sayian" button at the last minute cause either Bianca somehow stopped it or it was already too late since Loki got cut in half. It's not very clear why it didn't work.

>>150278676
Pan couldn't give up this one shitty idea for 20+ years. I doubt he could bring himself to leave the thread and not continue to try and save face and astroturf opinions about himself if he showed up here.

>>150276493
I thought she didn't create him, though. I thought she found him in a discarded sketchbook?

>>150265863
>

>>150278733
> It's not that hard to get Front paged on Newgrounds
It is if you don't know what you're doing. It's hard to make good animation in general and the bulk of the people submitting stuff are extremely new to whatever they're trying to make. 98% of the stuff on NG is completely dog shit whether it's games, illustrations, music, or animation (illustration tends to fare a bit better). The same people tend to get front-paged often which can make it seem a little cliquey, but that's because those people actually have any clue of what they're doing.

People can criticize Pan's pilot all they want, but it was high effort/high production value frame by frame animation. It can seem rough around the edges when you compare it to essentially pro-level stuff like Lackadaisy, but if you compare it to the majority of web animations that get uploaded every day and get no attention whatsoever, it's quite good.

>>150276617
>>150278801
Kinda yeah, basically, she brought this art binder that had Loki in it and they decided to work together because they both wanted online fame. What you said about the partnership making sense is a moot point in the comic because Loki just gets his powers from the WiFi jewel, which makes him stronger the more popular he becomes.
idk if any of this applies to the pilot since it didn't tell us anything.

>>150279069
Stop sucking yourself off, Pan. It's embarrassing and incorrect.

>>150278756
>It's not very clear why it didn't work
Right, and it was also going to be the very first time we'd see it in action. Having it do absolute dick-diddly completely undermined the supposed power of the curse. It was inferred earlier that it was super powerful because we saw what was supposedly the aftermath of its use, but we don't *feel* it as the audience because we haven't seen it first hand. To make the first tangible example of its use result in a wet fart completely undermined any power it supposedly had. That's one of those situations when consulting with someone who actually has visual storytelling experience would have come in handy (and not talking to fucking Daft Peñis of all goddamn people who made a pilot so bad he had to remove it from youtube in shame).

>>150278758
Its not that the idea is shitty on its own, its his sorry excuse for execution

>>150279107
>she brought this art binder that had Loki in it and they decided to work together because they both wanted online fame.
brought or bought? Kind of an important distinction
Also, when was this communicated to the audience? This seems like one of those things that was a concrete relationship in Pan's mind, but he forgot to rope the audience in. Also, fame being a motivator seems to be pretty much lost for the rest of the episodes. Neither seems to bring it up.
Is there going to be an overall arc with that? Will the characters learn that there are more important things? Will they have moments where they need to make decisions between doing what will get them fame and doing what will be morally correct?
Who the fuck knows. Considering the fame aspect was never really communicated to the audience and never reinforced by their behavior, decisions, or actions, then I think all these questions are moot.

the art looks like something I can draw as an untrained autist. not good!

>>150263796 (OP)
It was boring as shit

>>150279487
>as an untrained autist
kek

A lot of comments are pretty negative, but here are some things I thought worked well:
The fight sequences in the 2nd half were quite good. The hyper stylized visuals worked to the animation's favor and I found myself sucked in. The pacing of the sequences was really great in those sections specifically.
The detail in the designs of some of the extra assets was impressive. All the stat cards, the websites, the advertisements. There was so much information in those places that a lot of times I needed to pause to see it all. I think it's easy to get caught up in the story and forget that all the brands and web pages and digital readout screens actually had to be designed and most of them are a "blink and you'll miss it" moment.
The compositing in the final fight sequence looked great. The line of action was stylized really nicely and even though the mechanics of how the attack worked weren't super well defined, I think the implementation action-wise was great.
The style is incredibly unique. In a world where mainstream stuff all looks the same and a lot of indie stuff often tries to look like mainstream, nobody can accuse Loki IRL of being a copycat. You see any frame from this episode and it look uniquely Pan.
The bumpers between segments were really strong. You can tell Pan has spent a lot of time studying those adult swim bumpers. It felt like something that could be on the channel.

>>150263796 (OP)
the issue is that the concept of loki IRL is fundamentally bad, not only is it bad, but its also boring and uninteresting. best way i can describe pans show, its a bastard child of foster home for imaginary friends and pokemon but lacks the foundation of both shows.

>>150280092
> the concept of loki IRL is fundamentally bad
that seems a bit hyperbolic to me. I think the rules of the world could have been thought out better and executed a bit better as well, but if you can't imagine how this idea of "pokemon with drawings instead of captured monsters" *could* work on a fundamental level, then that's on you.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a ton that could have been done better and I find plenty about Pan himself pretty annoying, but saying that the idea is bad on a fundamental level is pretty retarded.

>>150280791
NTA, but the basic idea of artists battling with drawn monsters is fine. Lot of anons can see the appeal and instantly brainstormed dozens of better ideas and ways to really make this concept really interesting. However, Pan's version of this concept, which already exists in so many forms, is fucking boring. The Creator and Creation relationship is weak and nonexistent. The worldbuilding is thin and boring. The focus is on popularity and social media, rather than art and the creative process. The characters are losers, but they don't actually do anything to get stronger. They almost do okay in a single fight for the first time ever and then lose and then go
>wow we accidentally almost did better for some reason! WOW LET'S ENTER A TOURNAMENT!

It's an infuriating mountain of wasted potential.

>>150281413
I'm not disagreeing, but saying the concept is fundamentally bad means that it's bad on a fundamental level. As you yourself had mentioned,
>the basic idea of artists battling with drawn monsters is fine. Lot of anons can see the appeal
So fundamentally, the idea is sound, but he fumbles the execution.
I know it seems pedantic, but as I'd originally mentioned it was hyperbolic to say it was fundamentally bad to begin with. There's plenty to be said about this episode without having to exaggerate flaws.

>>150281518
I think that anon means that the idea of *LOKI IRL* not the OCs and artists battling, is bad. The idea of Loki and Bianca and their dynamic, their story. And he'd be right, because in every iteration and reboot of this idea that Pan has done, Loki and Bianca never work. Their dynamic makes no sense. The "wifi curse" is retarded. Loki being a villain who isn't a villain and also there are no villain IRLs because there's no Hero IRLs either, adds nothing to the story.

as someone working on a project with two MCs who have an eerily similar dynamic to Bianca and Loki I think the pilot is sort of a good compass to show what ways to go with them.
regardless with how I feel about the Loki IRL pilot i just think it's cool pan actually made something. maybe your vision isn't for everyone and its sure as hell not perfect but hey pan if youre reading this, you at least made something. even if it's not perfect you put your heart and soul into it and put it out there.
i'm still too much of a coward to do even that much yet, too scared about what people would think about my work and being torn down too if/when i ever make it.

>>150280791
That's the problem, it's already a wholly unoriginal concept that's incredibly derivative of other shit and Pan doesn't put a lot of effort trying to make it stand out from that. Even worse that he manages to make a simple concept incredibly convoluted and hard to follow because he did not put a lot of thought into the verisimilitude or even the basic world-building of it all. It reeks as something he came up with a kid and then never bothered to really work on the core of it.

>>150265777
He was the that liked it was the other guy that heckled him. Stop repeating a known lie.

>>150281413
>The focus is on popularity and social media, rather than art and the creative process.
You can do art both for creative reasons and external Validation

>>150266567
>>150277106
That would have been the good version of the character if Pan even knew what the fuck he was trying to do and inspire from.
Loki losing and being happy about it is like those cheap flash sex games where you have to lose to get see the chick getting fucked. Imagine if that actually was one of his powers for him to gain more power by getting beaten the crap out of it just like a super sayian.
>And I lost ... to even stronger and stronger opponents till I became ultra instinct Loki
Sadly Loki & Bianca kept losing to everyone and the same opponents every single time instead of learning, training and getting better.

>>150282355
what the fuck does this sentence mean?

>>150282778
I think he means Gennedy was the one that liked Pans concept and defended it from Mike lazzo

>>150282778
I meant to say Genndy didn't cringe at the "sex with cartoons" comment and instead provided an encouraging comment since it was his co-host that cringed. People now misattribute the dislike to Genndy when you can go to youtube and see the livestream to see it is not the case.

>>150263796 (OP)
Lol is he even trying?

>>150263796 (OP)
Not enough scat, underage whores, and dog anuses apparently

>>150278999
Hmmmmm

>>150282993
>Left: Predecessor idea tributing to Lion King
>Right: Original idea that doesn't want to look like it inspired from any similar work
Had Tezuka never died in interim, this weird fallout would have been immediately sorted out.

>>150282912
Yes, and that is the worst part. This is what he thinks is his "best"

>>150282688
Yes, but the plot isn't about becoming a better artist or honing artistic skills. It's only about trying to win fights to become more popular and get more views/followers.

>>150282844
>>150282900
Oh, yeah. Genndy didn't really say much at all during that part. It was the dude bro exec who was asking the follow up questions that seemed like they were intended to make fun of Pan for the audience's benefit. Genndy mostly tried to get Pan to drill down his idea into what the actual heart of the story was which flew over Pan's head. He just kept saying that they could fight in different places like a grocery story and that each character wanted to win.

Hey /co/mrades I voice Tori and a few bg characters in this. Thanks for watching

>>150284750
proof

>>150284762
yeah! post a picture of your hand

>>150284762
https://voca.ro/136a4CkpKapm

>>150271239
I was the one who told him he draws toes weird.

>>150272572
He sounds like Eugenia Cooney wtf.

>>150269913
I had no clue pan was a negro!

>>150284750
Did Pan pay you?

>>150285112
Of course. Honestly all of the indie creators I've worked with have been great to work with!

>>150271239
I really wish he'd stop making his "watching dumb cartoons" streams private, they're really comfy.

>>150285237
They're unlisted, not private

>>150284923
My hero canonically wore this

Cuz its style over substance, and ether you like the style or you don't.

>>150280791
>but if you can't imagine how this idea of "pokemon with drawings instead of captured monsters" *could* work on a fundamental level
In terms of worldbuilding a battle buddy ip it's the lowest of low hanging fruit. It's a power system devoid of any substance because there's nothing rooting the abilities and designs together besides being a crappy OC some faggot uploaded to deviant art. You don't get to pick your stand or digimon and you have to capture and raise your pokemon.
These aspects give fans something to invest in other than "look how cool my goth waifu OC is"

>>150285197
... you didn't say how much ...

also were you in charge of your characters' roles+visuals or you were just the voice?

>>150285594
Just the voices.
I was paid my rate

I was also Izel from Onyx Equinox, Andi from Enceladus V and Captain Cassidy from Wimp Witch

>>150263796 (OP)
i havent seen it

>>150285696
Wait you were in wimp witch

>>150273651
Can't believe I used to look up to this guy once.
His editing style is pretty good though not gonna lie there.

>>150275237
You're only saying that cause shes hot.

>>150286129
Yup!
Cassidy was fun!

>>150277512
that's the very issue at hand

>>150284902
What's up? How was it voicing for the characters?

>>150269711
He's like 35 atleast, he was probably 25 when he started "animating" this.

>>150284923
>>150285237
>>150285303
I was the one who made that one "IsROCKel vs PaleSTONE" joke in one of the chats where they were all trying to make Flintstone jokes about 9/11 and other tragedies. I'm surprised Pan actually used it in his very next vid at the time.

>>150286683
Not much! I've been lurking /co/ since 2011.

Very fun! I love to act, especially for animation, so being able to do that for so many cool projects is a dream come true!

>>150286798
>I've been lurking /co/ since 2011.
What threads do you lurk? Besides voice acting, do you do art as well?

>>150263796 (OP)
>117k views
>No big youtubers talking about it...
Their silence speaks volumes!

I like it, It has a lot of things that need to be flesh out, but that's why it's a pilot

The fact that he's been working on this idea for as long as he has and this pilot is the best he can do is embarrassing. He doesn't seem to have learned anything from the multiple failed attempts at making it work. It will never be better than this and what it is currently isn't even passible. If he wasn't a C-tier e-celeb, I doubt it would've broken 60k.

>>150263796 (OP)
The voice acting is just so distracting with Pan, cant he just hire some other people? Maybe I’m biased since I’m used to his voice in reviews, but pans voice just doesn’t sound convincing when he’s playing a character

>>150287863
Pan's last livestream did have him say he will have different actors for the ones he did (dunno if all of them but most likely the siblings)

>>150287882
Forgot to mention if it gets picked up but for the pilot it was pretty much a cost saving thing since he is broke.

>>150269800
I look like this

>>150277106
I'll giggity Wavebird and make more sons of the mask!

>>150287929
Post pic

>>150287407
Guess he's got a lot of catching up to do.
>Carlos.jpg

Why do these threads reek of Pan talking about himself but he is sort of subtle about it where he'll mix in shallow/light negativity

>>150288149
>pan watching his entire lifes work get raped in view count by an Irish cuck's half-arsed pilot

>>150288155
Becaus Pan has a history of lurking and posting here.

>>150288155
>Why do these threads reek of Pan talking about himself
Dude has all the signs of a /co/ lurker.
>Clearly has some trolls remorse for his older videos, but not fully mindbroken by it, and still sometimes makes *slightly* edgy jokes
>Horny for basically every girl /co/ gets horny for
>/co/ has the highest number of actual industry lurkers for its topic, greatly overlapping with Pan's interests

>>150288166
It's almost like working on your indie pilot WHILE having a good cartoon review schedule HELPS engagement! Not just ghosting your fans on yt until you get something

>>150288212
Hi Mark. Quit stalling and watch every episode of American Dad.

>>150288149
>>150288166
Imagine losing to a redditor

>>150288212
It helps the LSMark just hired people to make his dog shit pilot for him. Sure frees up a lot of time.

>>150288317
Pan did the exact same thing anon. There is no real leverage here in Pan's favor

>>150288306
She stacked furry, redditor and manic pixie alt-girl buffs. It's a bit unfair.

>>150285696
Fuck I miss Onyx Equinox, not enough people give a shit about south American mythology to do it justice

>>150288559
It was bundled with shitty shows so a lot of people ignored it

>>150288559
>here's your cultural representation bro

>>150288349
Mark is more of professional youtuber so he had a shitload more money to throw his shit, not too mention a much better connections. Pans circle has always been a small hodge podge of niche weirdos who hyperfixate on one thing for their hobby, and even then all of those bridges were burned before this even started production. Time is a helluva drug.

>>150288629
Do you really think "better connections" would have actually improved it? Connections are only as good as the product you pitch, it won't carry the quality. You can have shit connections but still have a decent project and Pan had a chance to actually get into AS years ago and fucked up. I don't think LS ever had that oppertunity.

>>150288651
>Do you really think "better connections" would have actually improved it?
Yes. The better connections and better budget made it so Mark didn't have to voice all of the characters himself and was even able to get some e-celeb cameos. Better connections and better budget made it so Mark could hire far more animators to work on his project and hire a composer to write an original score instead of editing premade tracks from newgrounds. Better connections and better budget made Catching Up have more polish despite the fact that the idea was far less inspired, the designs were shitty, and the script was god awful.

> Pan had a chance to actually get into AS years ago
No he didn't. He entered a call for artists to pitch show ideas for what was essentially a live critique. It was an open call. Anybody could have submitted to pitch. I'm guessing Pan got selected because he had a lot of material ready to go. Not a single person got picked up from any of the sessions they did for that.

> I don't think LS ever had that oppertunity
Yes he did. Literally everyone did. I sent the call for pitches out to several friends of mine. Anyone could have shot their shot.

>>150288398
>She

The colors are hideous, it's this style that is "ugly on purpose/clashing on purpose" with color.
It succeeds.
It is unbearable to look at.

>>150288306
She thinks her pilot has a 2000s style in her Calarts/Tumblr art retrospective btw.

>>150287386
>Waifu / husbando threads
>Regular Show
>Frankelda
>Captain Laserhawk mainly for bullfrog
>Blue Eye Samurai
>Primal
>Vocaroo sometimes
>Music videos

And I can't draw for shit. That's why I'm in the industry as a VA.

>>150290368
I do design and then commission my best friend to finalize the design. Left was my Avatar design that I drew and the right is what my best friend created.

>>150269800
>>150269913
the nose is entirely different

>>150271736
I like Pan style but honestly it's not arousing in the slightest

>>150263796 (OP)
Probably because it’s weird and embarrassing, but not bad. I can’t say I’m not proud of the guy for sticking it through and finally getting it done.

>>150291229
Monique's design is very weird, she supposed to be the sexy one, but no, nothing like that

>>150290775
That's pretty neat.

>>150288623
As cringey as Equinox was, it was atleast genuine in where it came from and what it wanted to do, this shit on the otherhand is just perfomative bullshit some exec through at the wall to see what lands.

>>150263796 (OP)
Anons are now fellating the pilot because they think Pan is lurking and still for whatever reason want to be his friend

>>150291758
I'll be your friend too, anon.

>>150291397
Even when he's tried it hasn't been very good. I think it's because he has no masculine or romantic idea of sex what so ever. So he's not very relatable and his style doesn't work with it

How do we feel about the guys he draws?

>>150292019
he needs to learn human anatomy, but we all know that he won't

>>150292241
Wait, did he draw this?
Ironic

Does anyone know the name of the song that plays during the opening of the pilot?

>>150287407
The awful new thumbnail isn't helping.

>>150292412
read the credits, retard.

>>150292542
Thank you, asshole.
I didn't expect it to be a song by the guy who made We Are the Strange.

>>150292019
>>150292057
You can stop beating around the bush and say that he designs them with the ugliest features possible regardless of art style. It's why VGCats porn by the original creator doesn't have the success he wanted to.
These bodies are disgusting compared to Jucika and that new general with Red Scare vs Lady Liberty.

There's no world outside of the middle east where pot bellies and leg hairs on women are attractive, neither malnourished looking bodies on both men and women. 0 appeal.

Let me link up a thread criticizing bad porn.
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/7497023#p7508127


>>150292057
Elder Scrolls 3 looking bastard who's also anorexic and uglier than a Dunmner and Vivec and uglier than the shark from Helluva Boss. He's nothing but skin and bones.

>>150292241
Lol

>>150292689
>neither malnourished looking bodies on both men and women. 0 appeal.
What not into cheek bones and ribs?

Uncle Duck looks better

>cartoon about making cartoons
>made by a guy who has never made a cartoon

>>150292689
>There's no world outside of the middle east where pot bellies and leg hairs on women are attractive
He does look a little middle eastern now that you mention it.
>>150269800

>>150292818
>How can you not be into skeletons and red vessels and naked muscle fibers? Those are inside you! ugh you skinfags are all the same, all you care about are muh skin muh skin, muh perfect healthy elastic skin with meat covered in skin. I'll date somebody who appreciates my skeleton. I bet the zombie next door will enjoy my skeleton.

>What not into cheek bones and ribs?
Johnny Bravo: Not really.

>>150276445
No the anon is right. A massive ongoing problem in character design is artists making cosplay fodder rather than actual characters. Nothing about the details tells a story or defines a life its all just an amalgam of waifu tropes.

It's sad how the comic has more of a story, more explanations, more of a pacing than the pilot... RebelTaxi/Pan Pizza somehow managed to make a shitty adaption of his own comic that doesn't understand its own source material. And he still didn't fix the problems with his comic through his adaption like Loki's stupidity and Bianca's shitty attitude that makes season 0 Yugi look not as shit.

The character fails at doing something but the audience doesn't know what was supposed to happen to begin with just like the wi-fi thing.
Pic related1/2

>>150293681
2/2 what was supposed to happen.

>>150293218
stfu

>>150292935
>cartoon about artists drawing and using animation techniques to battle
>creator can't draw and doesn't know jack shit about animation

>Loki Lowbrow Sinister? That's clearly a villain.
>He just looks evil and does good like Spawn or Batman
>I'm a proud and loud Anime American
>Are you sure this is the right guy? He doesn't even look or sound Japanese.

>Comparing this nuJoker, this fakeMask, this Freakazoid to Spawn or Batman, Pan you fucking arrogant retard that barely knows English.
Yeah okay cute joke, Pan. You can stop joking around now and rewrite your characters already so we can take them seriously now cause this Jim Carrey "Mask" attempt clearly isn't working.

>>150290251
>she
izzzyzzz goes by they/them pronouns. You might be new here, so I'm just letting you know we respect people's 'nouns here on /co/.

>>150284750
>>150285696
Based

>>150293681
It is a shame because I feel like how Angry Joe felt about Zack Snyder's take on the death of Superman comic in Batman V Superman in that NC review. I actually LIKED Lokiirl when it was a comic. I was interested, waiting for more, could take it seriously for what it was as an amateur comic made by a respected walking obscure factoid encyclopedia of cartoons. Pan hyped it up occasionally in his videos as a fun project. Then he put it in his pocket for years and then made it into this and said he "cherry picked" the best parts of the comic and rebooted it into this. Now it's so different from what it once was aesthetically and we'll never get to know what that comic could have been with his older art charm in that time! We could have had an amateur but, endearing webcomic at a time of the last legs of CN toons in the late 2010's Instead we get a desperately made pilot in a much more strangling environment for animation. Like Pan trying to get his mixtape discovered in a sea of other try hards

>>150293784
>How does the protagonist find Loki?
>Loki is 1 of many cartoon characters in a Japanese art binder found at some animation convention and her bigger sister bought her for $200

>They just found the "Japanese" art binder ... randomly ... accidentally ... in a fucking shop that sold concept art binders.
Look I enjoy accidents as much as the next guy... accidents are great, they make storytelling unpredictable and fresh, but seriously? You could have shown how the book originated from a volcano from some Japanese artist that got killed and the binder misplaced on a ship to america then in the hands of a noodle delivery boy and then accidentally in a stash of American binders, that's the kind of accident you see in cartoons without undermining the plot while still allowing people to ask questions about the mystery rather than "Eh it just happened. The Omnitrix fell from the sky for no reason".


Also ladies and gentlemen... OUR PROTAGONIST. Pan is such a Mexican.
>It's $200 !! Let me buy it for $5 or $11 or let me STEAL IT

Look I'm all for morally ambigous protagonists but why the fuck am I supposed to find Bianca a likable character again and why not just replace her with her bigger sister instead? Same with Loki, why am I supposed to not replace him with somebody with a higher IQ instead like Bianca humors the idea early on? Imagine if Ash Ketchum's Charizard was the only Pokemon available or Pikachu was a bitch for the entire series just like episode 1.

>>150293961
>why not just replace her with her bigger sister instead?

Now that I can agree with. Mainly because I like Wavebird. But, yeah if she already has more passion for art, is cooler and more mature then why do we need to follow her sister? She's not "the chosen one" or especially talented, skilled, friendly or passionate like most shonen anime. And this reboot made her 4 years older so she's 18 strictly for perv reasons and to mirror the lost time Pan has making this. Almost feels like a way to age Olivia out of the story, which is sad

>>150273795
>as if there was anything good about the og bauhaus

>>150293784
Wow he really settled on that "random intersecting lines" gimmick early on, didn't he? Who the fuck even draws like that?

>>150292019
what does it say about me as a drawfag if I could easily redeem pan's designs?

>>150263796 (OP)
Fucking a tranny really was his downfall. You could trace all his current problems to his pooner gf/roomate.

>>150273419
>>150269800
somebody please post the SDCC pic of him. its so fucking funny

>>150294396
i wouldnt be surprised to see him go down that pipeline too

>>150294435
I feel like he would have done it by now if that were the case but I think deep down he knows after hanging around mango and "izzy" that troons are unstable.

>>150293681
>>150293944
>>150293961
Bianca's old hair is so much better. Why does pan keep fucking things up?

>>150294487
Mix of bad advice of trying to "improve" his artstyle and the people screaming in his ear about adding distinctive ethnic minorities.

>>150293961
I think it's a little known fact that the appeal of loser characters is when they aren't written by people who actually act like that. With a show written by competent writers they can back and forth some stand out moments of heroism, catharsis, while balancing attitudes with limits to not lose the audience. But, a loser character written by 1 person who clearly hasn't matured is how you get a Dobson, or a Chris Chan, or a Dana Terrace. Even Rebecca Sugar who had a background with yaoi art of kid age characters knew when to cut a writer who was too much of a ship fanatic to write something beyond what they wanted. And people still hated her. Pan needs to get at least a few respected fan fiction author's to proof read some scripts. I'm sure his fan base is full of them.

Bianca smashing the cyber gem was supposed to be her doing the right thing. And it's good but, what happens now? That was the whole thing is it just gone now? Seems more like a cheap macguffin to a new viewer to make her worse qualities less bad

>>150294395
That you're a normal person. I could easily do it too but, I don't wanna reward his laziness. It feels scummy, like even anons here with no artistic abilities can tell you what's wrong

>>150294526
I don't think anyone ever told him to include more brown people. His fans loved the multicolored characters and the Moodygurl character they already had. Just seems like rainbow capitalism to me.

>>150293944
This just reminded me of Ralph Bakshi and his unused concepts.

Pan is his own worst enemy. So immediately from this page I found this interesting and very dystopian. This is what he should have said to Mike Lazzo when he brought this up >>150263855 , same for the pilot.
Yes and? AND? continue ... the fact he didn't point this socio-political issue is like a 8 year old who doesn't understand the consequences ... hell even in-world his characters seem way too dumb and immature to get it.
This is basically if people could breed with AI and it automatically created cyborgs who could live forever, replacing pure humans entirely because cyborgs can relatively live forever compared to a pure human.

>>150294526
>and the people screaming in his ear about adding distinctive ethnic minorities.
I don't care about that

>>150294885
Same with Bianca's pervert side ... okay she's perverted.. and? how does this affect her personality in a productive or entertaining way rather than just oogling like a retard at dicks and rape fantasies? she doesn't seem willing to socialize for sex or socialize in general so how does this affect her character? When you make your character lovestruck they at least orbit another character, but Bianca has no love interest to orbit and perv on. It's useless, same with the "Oh yeah you can fuck your characters..." ... and? Pan never mentioned that mixbreed socio-political bullshittery that happens afterwards, that's kind of a big deal that can get people interested in your story. He never mentioned that part from a more intelligent standpoint.


I know it's also an excuse to self-insert as a perv and to attribute his blue humans as "oh they're just mixbreeds ... totally not because I can't draw a human worth a shit for refusing to study anatomy" but immediately if he would have shown that there are pure humans which are rare because every cartoonist bred with their own OC for the toon force and life longevity perks then my brain would have opened its ears rather "Oh another perverted retard staring at booba, but not even understanding basic biology" "It's as disgustingly "adorable" as a little girl wanting to marry someone but not understanding what it means" same problem with Foster's Home that never bothered going into the politics of it. Pokemon did, but they also backed off rather than making it an issue and making anti-pokemon towns and places that don't accept pokemon at the workplace... probably because then the toy commercial wouldn't work.

>>150292689
>neither malnourished looking bodies
It really depends on how you use that term. If you mean actually malnourished, no. But it's often times used by fat fags and HAES hags to describe anyone who is actually fit or at an appropriate BMI. I think waifish girls are sexy and while I'm not into anorexic skelly girls, I can appreciate a little bit of rib.

>>150294977
However it also shows 1 main problem which I already mentioned; it's a dystopia.
A world inhabited by half human half cartoons is pretty dystopian and antihumanist, it's transhumanist stuff that you usually find in cyberpunk worlds where instead of toons it's robots.
Yet Pan just like with Loki & Bianca wants to sell this as "it's fine, it's fine, it's a good thing" but in a very ignorant "I don't even understand what I'm doing here" way. He doesn't seem to make any references to Philip K. Dick or even realize that he just wrote cyberpunk stuff. He genuinely stumbled into it accidentally without thinking.


Instead of the humans in Foster or the humans in Pokemon being separated from their creations and battlepets you instead get this weird Gumball amalgmation.
In Pan's world it seems like the government gives no fucks , since in Pan's mind the problem is "overpopulation" rather than the destruction of the human species as we know it and it's only *recommended* for creators to only have 1 toon character rather than enforced and heavily restricted so they can preserve the human species.
In his diorama the halfbreed is still presented as an organic rather than a mixbreed. And again he says organic rather than human, showing some really misanthropic amoral attitude.

And again this was nowhere shown in pilot neither the trailer neither any "Did you know?" world design shorts to catch people's interest. In most Cyberpunk worlds the transhumanist part is the whole thing that grabs people's attention.

>>150295243
You know I wouldn't recommend this BUT, anyone could try pitching Lokiirl's concept with these actual fleshed out ideas and get their concept picked up not even just more likely than Pan but, not have to credit him at all because you pitch it as transhuman dystopian fiction with a toon slant instead of toon pokemon. We're genuinely cooking here

What happun?

>>150295966
No Micheal Kovack guest voice. Would have added another 100,000 views on top of what it normally would get I reckon

>>150292019
The mid body isn’t my thing, but I have a soft spot for weird exaggerated hands/feet.

>>150296715
For me, it’s her big oval-shaped head and blue hair.

>>150292019
>that pic
If his goal was to make it as unsexual as possible, he succeeded astoundingly.

Oh so that's what was supposed to happen when Loki gained attention from 2 million viewers through his wi-fi gem. Why the fuck didn't the Pilot show that?

>>150297071
qt 3.14 bunnygirl obviously based off Lopunny, too bad the halfbreed human artist is also brown.

The comic doesn't seem like it has that "nothing fucking happens" problem like the pilot and most cartoon pilots do, how unfortunate that the pilot is worse than the short 5 issue comic.
It instead has all the problems of a bad cartoon instead with unlikable characters that contradict themselves. Loki yells "dishonorable" announces his "sneak attacks" everyone calls him an idiot in-world , tries to steal somebody's car to catch someone, get repercussions for it, yet the guy is shown as in the wrong. The cult 3 mooks try to not hurt civilians yet Bianca keeps hitting them like a little shit. Bianca is a miserable protagonist that doesn't even tell Loki to not use his wi-fi powers, she's just cowardly when she sees him powered up and in fact she asks him to use it more often in the next battle royale cause they almost lost to 2 10 year olds if the cartoon club hadn't come in to help them. Still a bunch of world design and power problems, but this time it's just typical anime balance problems rather than absolutely nothing being thought out even 1% of the time.

It seems like cartoons can get killed if you destroy the blueprints from them ... and the cartoonists use art books to draw them from rather than a basic sheet of paper with no reference. A bunch of other problems arise, but it's not as bad as the pilot.

Also it's not answered if the half breeds also have a character sheet and art book that when destroyed kills them, it's only hinted at by Bianca having a nightmare about it. Which can also explain in a very dystopian way why the governments and elites would allow out of control breeding between cartoons and humans. There's still a bunch of contradicting shit, but it feels much more typical of Beyblade and YuGiOh's stuff rather than the pilot that doesn't answer even 1%.

>>150292241
I think this is why I feel frustrated by this show/comic.

I got told this by an art teacher in high school after he saw my crappy cartoon doodles and it just turned into resentment against the traditional "elite" art institution. I too, like Pan, leaned into late 90s/early 2000s graphical aesthetics as a crutch, not really understanding it any deeper than just a stylistic thing.

Eventually I grew up, found a friend/mentor who actually started pushing me, 10 years later I'm still learning, but I often wonder how much further I could've been had I not been a whiny bitch about learning fundies as a teenager.

I look at Loki IRL/Pan though and I see an alternate version of myself that never started trying though.

>>150297071
He said he wanted the pilot to be like the Matrix movie on the stream, doesn't wanna leave it on a cliffhanger but, leave people wanting more and interested in the characters. To be fair he did do that, just like most of the time he didn't recognize the things that work from his influences

>>150297382
Nice bloomers. But that's a good point, in the comic he says they can die from stuff besides starvation. But, how? How come they can get hurt and respawn but, die? Low ink for too long?

The comic in its current state and this is being extremely generous, is at best on the level of Captain Laserhawk: A Blood Dragon Remix which everyone already called a shit cartoon. It deals with the same problem of cartoons, hybrids, humans having to live together.

Ironically more childish cartoons like Shasha & Milo dealt with the transhumanist stuff for 5 minutes and the character/writer immediately pointed out the problems of humans transformed into cats and vice versa ruining society and thus agreed to keep them separate. And take note this is a pretty bad and boring cartoon that people call "It's like a cartoon created within a cartoon, that's how boring it is. It's lamer than Miraculous Ladybug except for the fact it doesn't go on for 6 seasons."
https://youtu.be/2dUGb1KICFo?list=PLBtWswMQ9A1tHTXJe2mBe63M83sqncT7a&t=497

Pan and his self insert Bianca don't seem to understand the problem and be responsible about it and just paints everyone else in the wrong for not accepting the transhumanist agenda. Cyberpunk worlds don't do that and take it far more seriously, even the protagonists often admit it's a massive dystopian problem and any cyborgs would readily want to become human again like a Pinnochio story. Meanwhile Pan/Bianca outright states "What's wrong with it?" Ah yes and Bianca is such a role model to take life advice and lessons from//sarcasm.

>>150297666
And again Pan equates transhumanism to jewish racism even mentions them in the same breath, as if a cyborg is the same as a black skin and a white skin. As if a human with toon powers is the same as a normal whiteskin, normal black african or a mexican human, which makes him look incredibly dimwitted and incapable of understanding his own world. And that's also ignoring the real life part of it. Fucks' sake different dog breeds can't stand each other when you put them in the same house and they're all from the same species, imagine forcing dogs and cats to live together. Pan never thought about cartoons themselves being racist to each other such as 3D vs 2D, claymation, 40s style vs 2000s style, if he really wanted to get creative with the concept and put a fun twist on it.

Pan even mentions Bianca is korean and bad at math and talks about stereotypes in the most dimwitted way possible to the point Loki contradicts himself by saying Bianca is a "positive stereotype" for knowing math after she just said she isn't and again ... the antisocial gremlin who can't finish her scribbles on time to show to a TV Show recruiter is somehow a "positive" representation?
Sadly you need a much smarter brain to write these. It's just weird seeing characters' skins, heights, looks, DNA, get acknowledged yet nothing intelligent is done with it.

Pan could have grabbed a lot of attention if he included these ideas into the pilot ... same if he actually bothered advertising a trailer and included at least some songs. Hazbin Hotel caught on by having a song in the trailer so people can click it an infinite amount of times if they want to rehear that song again, PLUS the voice actor Pan refused to hire (Pilot Angel Dust) would have been helpful for marketing. Almost every single one of Vivzie's original voice actors helped market her show before she swiftly kicked them out when she got big.

>>150298001
Loki contradicts himself by saying Bianca is a "positive stereotype" for not* knowing math

>>150296715
>>150296780
both of you completrly get the appeal. for me its both of these things.

>>150295966
that trailer gag tanked his chances

>>150275657
So far IN WORLD all the artists that have been shown were 10-18 year olds drawing, imagine if a grown ass 40 year old veteran artist drew his OC to fight.
Sadly that would require a proper budget and somebody who knows how to draw.

>>150295966
>No one like Pan
>He's been talking about Loki IRL for so long that anyone who cares already knows it's a stupid story told by an idiot amateur
>No popular eceleb friends with enough clout to promote it for him
>Trailer/Teaser did not look interesting
>Bad thumbnail
>31 fucking minutes
>Title is confusing, now that the MCU came and went and had two fucking seasons of a show literally titled "LOKI"
>First few minutes look like ass and don't get better until much later in, and most people are going to check out long before that
>Next few minutes are loaded with lots of Pan voicing nearly every fucking character on screen which will definitely send people running
>released it at a time when the algorithm is extremely fucked and everyone is seeing reduced views and discoverability, along with ID verification being forced on people with AI age estimation guessing based on the kind of content being watched (usually cartoons lmao)

>>150288349
Anon Pan actually DID something on his pilot. He animated, created artwork, and edited it
>but he still hired people
LS Mark didn't do a goddamn thing for his own pilot except design the two terrible main character designs and write the thing, which are the worst aspects of the entire package.
Pan made a weird crappy pilot but Mark is a poser to the highest degree

>>150300914
So pretty much the Duke Nukem Forever of indie animation?

>>150301099
Nah. It's just generally bad in a lot of ways that were never going to succeed.

>>150298001
I think Pan might have taken the boneing your OC teasing to heart but, instead of writing a more interesting plot he just removed most of the mixed races and changed his main cast into humans. Which not only makes the designs less interesting but, does that on top of still having all the problems the former pitch had

>>150299954
At this rate Loki IRL talks are going to snowball into lengthy discussions of how much further Pan could have pushed the concept of IRls aswell as the base concepts of his story. It's giving me flashbacks to all those "SU but good" threads. Really at it's core the concept could have been a cross between Digimon/Summer Wars, Jojo, and Yugioh but with a western bent. He overcomplicated too much.

>>150302712
I'm trying to put my finger on it and I think the core of the issue is that the premise is barely there to be window dressing to the one thing Pan cares about: Drawing Loki and Bianca. They're characters in search of a story. Pan has no interest in exploring the concept or even exploring Loki and Bianca's dynamic. He just wants to draw them being weird losers, and then sometimes when he's feeling edgy, he wants to draw Loki being cool and badass. He's not actually interested in battles and art styles and mediums and animation techniques. He doesn't want to explore this weird future world. He just needs something for Loki and Bianca to be in. Everything else is barely tertiary or less to that top priority.

>>150302712
It's not the worst thing to happen to a pilot. It can certainly help because this is the one instance of /co/ actually giving criticism, notes and recommendations to other works that have done concept elements better. It's just a bit frustrating that >>150303549 what this guy says is true and people would probably just get tired of thinking of ways it could be better and move on instead of celebrating what it is. It's a sad middle ground of concept that's bad and gets picked up vs concept that's really good that no studio takes a chance on. Which is were most rejected pilots get lost in the shovel and people don't celebrate them

>>150297071
>based on aztec god
>speaks japanese
excuse me?

>>150303830
Ancient aliens or something

>>150303549
Why doesn't Pan just get a co-writer? That would solve so many of his problems.

>>150303906
He doesn't often work with other creatives on projects due to his cringe. You know, the ONE big key thing you need to get a show. Being able to work with others on your ideas

>>150301099
People actually wanted Duke Nukem Forever at one point

>>150303906
His writing is about on par with his art skills if we're being honest here. He's not even a decent idea guy.

>>150303906
he did, didn't he? Daftpina or whatever his name is

>>150304303
How the hell does Daftpina still find the ability to associate with artists after repeatedly being outed as a Worm

>>150304378
Some people still give him the benefit of the doubt since he made a video apologizing and straight up saying he was petty and jealous of Jaden and other people's work because he had a caved in chest surgery recovery and it was hard to accomplish his goals of animating so he picked on others. He's been pretty uncontroversial so far after two rebrands and having a female, furry co host who seems very obliviously paid to be there. But he's not getting those big interviews like he used to before people found out and he deleted his slander vids

>>150300966
> Mark is a poser to the highest degree
This. I hope Veronica cheated on him after his pilot came out.

>>150304378
I don't know, but he needs to fuck off already. He's like that one villain in a cartoon who only shows up to annoy the MC (and audience)

>>150304495
>>Some people still give him the benefit of the doubt since he made a video apologizing

He still went and convinced Pan to dump Izzy and Jim for his own pack of literal-who friends to try and kick start a new podcast that went nowhere because everyone involved in unreliable
You can not like Izzy and Jim for your own reasons but that all happened because Pan is easy to siphon some clout off of since unlike every other Cartoon Reviewer Pan has some art skills

>>150297666
>Pan and his self insert Bianca
That's not his self-insert.

>>150305211
Fucking amazed that Pan still kept these characters and voiced them knowing full well no one likes them or their gimmick

>>150305294
I'm not. The "sisters" were some of his personal favorites back in his tumblr days and featured them a lot in his early vids as in character cameos with Stephany literally raping him orally

>>150302712
I really didn't expect people to be this invested with the world setting of the pilot. I'm still baffled as to why he didn't include the logo of the pilot in all of the 4 thumbnails, I repeat 4 thumbnails. You know, like every other pilot KNOWS to do! Was he retarded? Also the fight at the end is way too long; it could've been 2.5 minutes shorter. I enjoyed his pilot though, but only for the lady with the glow sticks that beat up Loki.

You know compared to most creators I at the very least appreciate that he visits 4chan every once in a while. Most people ignore it. During the stream he mentioned that he wanted his show to be like Ballmastrz: 9009. I assume this is only for the action scenes given the sketchy style it had and not the general vibe of the show. What's stupid is that he wants episode 2 to be about them trying to earn money online, only for it to not go very well. Just for them to end up with a regular job. Which in my opinion is the most stupid concept for a second episode ever If he wants to grab people's attention. Also he stated that they're in university during the stream but in the start of the his own pilot they mention high school. Why did he wait so late to make this change to the plot. All of the characters were aged up too on the Loki IRL website to 18+ but I could've sworn not that long ago it said Bianca was 16, not 18, Which is funny because in the comic she's 14. Why did he attempt to make it PG instead of you know TV-14, since It'll lead to more flexibility with the story.

>>150305294
>>150305311
Plus. it's genderpeople bait.

>>150288929
izzzyzzz is definitely a chick

It alright. I like it more on a second watch.
The pacing is sluggish in some scenes. Specifically, a lot of dialog was redundant. There are some good jokes, though.
There's some good animation and design work (I for one like Bianca), but I think they need to work on anatomy and construction to keep the characters consistent.
It's one thing to warp them on purpose (the show uses a fisheye look a few times to nice effect). It's another when it looks like it was an accident.
The scenes like the final fight, which I assume was a contractor, were very good.
The music is great. Nice listening, it creates a tone for the show, and it's integrated well scene to scene.
There's room for improvement, but I would watch an episode two.

>>150305196
That was actually 2 years before he apologized. So he was just on the tail end of his gaslighting campaign with bigger creators. Still, amazing he didn't try reconnect. Probably because he NEEDS an organizer to talk to people. He even said on the stream that he wouldn't be able to hypothetically ship out fan rewards on Kickstarter even if he wanted to, at most digital wallpapers were his idea. It's fair to admit your incompetence but, it's a bad pitch for a job in animation

>>150264913
This guys youtube channel just turns me off in general. There's no way this can be good.

>>150305716
It's definitely the most "cozy" I guess animated pilot recently. It doesn't feel like corpo slop or genderqueer self righteous preaching. It's definitely a guy who has an early 2000's aesthetic on his sleeve but, the thing is that it has the same vibe as one of his videos. I would like more(which would take a long time)but, I feel like by the next time he uploads a new video I'll be fine with just that. I'm not BEGGING for it.

It's kinda like Lyle Rath's latest pilot "SCREAMING MEAT" I feel but, a lot more expensive. It's JUST like a long version of an Oneyplays animated. I like it but, it's so personal it doesn't need to be a show. We have Lyle on video all the time. If your show is like an eceleb telling a story for 15 to 30 minutes it doesn't justify all this effort. Something like Smiling Friends wouldn't be as good with shorts or a comic. Lokiirl works best as a comic and at most should just have bits of the comic animated and dubbed in video format. Like those videos that lightly animate panels of DC or Invincible comics and dub them.

>>150305878
It was probably best enjoyed if you grew up watching him for years. I can imagine going back in the catalog is total whiplash. One video he's a chill 20 something talking about boneing Raven, the next it's a hyper frantic comic con recap of the Adult Swim panel, then a podcast with a diaperfur on it and right after a full podcast with Maxwell Atoms on it. Now it's mostly long form video game deep dives with bite sized animation reviews.

It would be a daunting and disappointing binge that probably wouldn't be worth it unless you're a 20 something millennial who watched Cartoon Network in 2016 while browsing SU tumblers shipping Lapidot while jerking it to Pornhub Zone Sama Teen Titans and Wakfu reuploads after visiting Shadbase.com and reading comments to see what liberal sjw was having a meltdown over an artist needed to be cancelled eating Doritos while drinking Mt dew because you saw it in an MLG vine comp with Snoop Dogg, Blend S yt animations reacted to by Jinx pre Leafy roast.

>>150305911
Interesting comparison. I haven't watched RebelTaxi's other videos, but I have watched most of Lyle Rath's stuff, and I agree that Screaming Meat could have been, like, a podcast.
I think a big part of making a cartoon for some people is simply the fact that they made a cartoon. That mysterious art they loved so much as a kid is finally something they can do themselves.
I should know, I'm writing a script to a short animated film right now.

>>150305986
Ooh cool! Well now you know from this thread, make sure you get at least one read over from someone you respect(someone who likes reading too I guess)

>>150306026
Thanks. I really should get someone to read it over, since it's based on various dreams I've had over the past couple months. It could be total dogshit to anyone other than me.

>>150278999
If any other retard defended bestiality on the internet he'd be canceled and banned within the hour, why does this guy get a free pass

>>150306252
He has the right views on Israel

https://x.com/2gay2lift/status/581274292941406209/

Did anyone mention Ralph Bakshi and cartoon-human hybrids?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtCvnv0pks0&ab_channel=MikeGrayson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMKd6Gf16AI&list=PL8WAFcZVXspivHBigNTAmBESNTYxs_Jqz&ab_channel=jparkerriffs

>>150306745
Son of Zorn was a pretty crappy TV Show, but still better than Steven Universe and still more unique and better handled than Inside Jimmy's Head.

Everytime a Loki IRL thread pops up just hit Pan with these shows:

Hero Inside
Zenshu
Di-Gata Defenders
Megaman Battle Network
Huntik
Digimon
Ben 10
Son of Zorn
Cool World

>>150305312
He aged up the characters so there wouldn’t be any backlash when he canonically bones them