Thread 150265486

In retrospect, it wasn't that bad

>>150265486 (OP)
No, it really was pretty awful.

>>150265486 (OP)
You're right; it was terrible.

>>150265513
>>150265558
Did you read that on r/comics?

>>150265486 (OP)
Shut up, paco.

>>150265486 (OP)
>brad metlzer
It's probably worse than people say. MEltzer is a fucking hack.

>>150265657
Some of DC's biggest mistakes was imitating Marvel, this is one of them.

>>150265513
>>150265558
and it paved the way for even worse things to come

>>150265486 (OP)
Es pura mierda, pendejo.

>>150265486 (OP)
It's that bad. People who defend it are just at home in slopfests.

>>150265486 (OP)
Fuck off bro it was awful. The only good thing was it was so bad and so reviled that it spurred one of the best era’s ever with OMAC, ran/thanagar war, infinite crisis, one year later/52, countdown, etc as all the creators rallied to fix it all.

>>150268205
>infinite crisis, 52
These are awful as well.

>>150268626
You’d have to have read them to form that opinion faggot.

>>150268907
Those and Identity Crisis are the only ones I read. I didn't read OMAC or the other ones.

>>150269001
>I conveniently only read two events and 52 comics from across a year that rely on the ongoings yet ignored all of those
I don’t believe you

>>150269140
I usually don't bother with that extra shit.

>>150265486 (OP)
Why the fuck are there people defending this now?

>>150265486 (OP)
Yes it was

>>150265486 (OP)
SDkino

>>150268626
Infinite Crisis was yet another dumb event but 52 was four mad lads having a grand collaborative adventure and not giving a damn about editorial plans, it was great.

>>150266157
7-issue series?

>>150265486 (OP)
It was carried by the art, same goes for cry for justice

>>150265486 (OP)
It was utterly retarded. Its only point was to plant a completely unnecessary to the plot rape scene and le controversy into the silver age. People responsible should rightly be raped themselves.

>>150273463
The satellite era and Elongated Man's time on the team was bronze age, but yeah.

>>150270673
Contrarianism. It's why suddenly /co/ decided Didio was suddenly a fucking genius and not the dumb fuck that he was that kept destroying DC's sales and was going to crash DC again with his more diverse Justice League with a black Batman/Trans Flash/Latino WW/black GL who were going to fight older versions of Superman/Batman who had turned evil.

>>150273659
Didio was the master of the quick fix, but none of his decisions lead to long-term stability.

>>150273659
>>150270673
>shitposter OP shitposts
>suddenly you faggots act like this is a common refrain
Kill yourself

>>150265486 (OP)
Oldfag here, Wizard was astroturfing this book hard, claiming it was going to be "the new Watchmen" so I picked it up as it came out until the rape issue which made me literally say out loud "what in the fuck". A couple years later when it came out in the trade I picked it up out of curiosity and thought it was goddamn retarded...nothing that happens in the middle with Dr Light matters at all because he had nothing to do with the murder, it just so happened that Jean Loring brought a flamethrower with her to murder Sue...which didn't make any sense either because Jean's whole motivation was to get Ray back but you see literally in that very issue Ray trying to get back with Jean before Sue's murder. It was fucking stupid.

>>150274368
That's the darkly funny thing about it, the rape is almost entirely inconsequential, it's pure shock value.

>>150275516
It's been a while since I read it so I may be wrong but Jean Loring burning Sue Dibny to death was pure coincidence wasn't it? Like Jean didn't know about Sue getting raped by Dr Light so she wasn't specifically trying to frame him, she just was like "what's a good murder weapon? A flame thrower, I guess"

>>150274126
It's probably OP trying to pretend to be someone else to support his own post

>>150275554
The shitty twist at the end is that she never intended to kill her, just scare her. But after the accidental death, had a flame thrower that she had conveniently brought just in case.

>>150275945
She's packing heat.

>>150275945
That's what makes it such an awful story, ignoring the literal rape of a character and all the stuff it did to long established characters, the fact the inciting incident and the majority of the action in the book end up being completely unrelated makes it an awful whodunnit and story. It'd be like if Watchmen ended with one of the detectives going "Oh, guess Eddie Blake was killed by a random burglar, nothing more to see here"

What are some actual good stories like this then?

>>150277456
Like what?

>>150277456
It was essentially trying to be "Watchmen but set in the DCU" so just read Watchmen

>>150277471
Like this.

>>150278771
Please elaborate.

The rape stuff aside, Identity Crisis made no sense. Why did Jean bring a flamethrower with her if she didn't actually plan on murdering Sue and crisping up the body? Why was Doctor Light already running scared and prepared for the JLA stopping by if he didn't remember anything?

The downtime with the capes and the villains meeting casually was nice. The dialogue, the scripting, it's all good. But the story is so so dumb.

>>150265486 (OP)
Identity Crisis single-handedly ruined Tim Drake forever. Not Graduation Day, not Beechen, not "Timothy Wayne". Not Damian, not RED ROBIN (YUMM). Not the Swan Queen costume. Not coming out the closet. Not BERNARD.
This comic right here.

>>150265486 (OP)
>ow the edge
>mystery unsolvable by the reader due to withheld evidence
>most of the sleuthing is just red herrings

>>150282090
Wow, what a pussy.

>>150282090
Nicieza's Red Robin was all right. And this entire scene became irrelevant with the reboot. He just became pointless.

>>150282403
There are too many Robins.

>>150282090
Out of context it looks like Batman just saved robin from gang banging

>>150265486 (OP)
Rags Morales is a great artist. I just wish he'd gotten a better story.

>>150265486 (OP)
I mean, what are you it comparing it to? Paul’s cuck arc? Heroes in Crisis? Dark Nights Death Metal?

>>150282403
Besides the Nu52 2011-2016 era, this has always been how Jack Drake died. They should have kept the Drakes alive. Re-introduced them during Rebirth or Infinite Frontier as one of those quirks of the multiverse.

>>150282589
It is pretty funny that some some hack writer made his death in Identity Crisis canon again when the original Captain Boomerang is still alive and fine. Couldn't just ignore the bad story.

>>150282090
>I killed them all, in my underwear!

>>150282686
Tynion's work was bad, but everyone insisted on glazing his Detective Comics for some reason.

What was good about it, OP?

>>150282090
Every time I see this page I think of this blog post
https://sevenhells.blogspot.com/2006/08/private-dick.html
>It happened and we didn't know it. Somewhere, somehow, Dick Grayson became almost irrelevant.
>I think Didio realized something we've all known but just ccouldn't admit to ourselves.
>The DC Universe, as it stands, really doesn't need Dick Grayson anymore.
>It's taken 17 years but Tim Drake, the current Robin (Yes, Tim's been around for SEVENTEEN YEARS!), has eclipsed Dick Grayson in every way, shape and form.
>Dick Grayson died just that much more, off-panel, during Identity Crisis. During the comics event of 2004, Tim Drake had to helplessly listen to his father die. All Tim could do was collapse, weeping into the waiting arms of Batman... and that sealed the deal right there.
>How was Dick ever going to "top" Tim's story.

Crazy what even 3 years of perspective will give you, let alone two decades.

>>150282976
Impressively bleak, the takes on shit writing were just as retarded then as now 20 years later.

>>150272852
>it was great.
It was shit.

>>150273433
>>150282459
I disagree. The art is pretty mediocre. Polished, but still dull.
Rags is the reason I will probably never read Morrison's Action Comics.

I mean I thought it was cool. The scene where they imply Superman knows but is kinda onboard so he doesn't get involved was neat.

>>150274368
All the clues line up to Batman killing Sue

>>150282090
>Not coming out the closet.
No, that's the moment. You could have always just had a passionate author who writes a good story. Being bi/gay is the ruining moment.

>>150283105
I was seeing that kind of nonsense back then and thought it was gonna get bad. I didn't realize how much worse the 2010s midwittery would get

>>150282976
Didio definitely tried his best to make Dick as irrelevant as possible in the mid 00s.

>made Tim an prphan, just like Dick
>gave Tim the Teen Titans with Dick's friends
>gave Tim Dick's old bedroom
>Dick was an absolute maniac in Outsiders at the same time
>planned to kill Dick and make Jason Nightwing, and have him be leader on Outsiders
>his book was absolute ass from like 2003-2007

Thank god Morrison made Dick Batman, he fucking saved the character.

Really rape/sexual assault is one of those things that should just be hinted or subtextually there. When you make it the main plot it just comes off as hacky and makes people roll their eyes.

Like Dr Light came off as cringy especially when a couple years later they changed his personality to rape lover and had him threatening to rape girls dressed up as Teen Titans. Compared to Johnny Sorrow who genuinely came off as creepy with regards to Sandy and later Stargirl.

If Didio had a silver age boner why did he destroy the satellite era JL with that bullshit?

>>150287841
He's retarded.

>>150265486 (OP)
Why was it considered bad?

The thing that still pisses me off the most about Identity Crisis, is Kyle Rayner seeing Deathstroke clowning on all his teammates (yes yes, we laugh about Flash etc) and deciding to go in and throw a punch.
Not even throwing a big green boxing glove or making an armor around himself.
Just going in for the haymaker.

>>150287841
Certain types of fanboys like taking things from their childhood and making them edgy. He wasn't making comics for kids, he ushered in the "We make comics for 45 year olds" era.