Thread 150285500

monochrome comics > color

I agree

>>150285500 (OP)
Sometimes.
Mainstream comics should be in black and white.

>>150285500 (OP)
now that I think about it, the ninja turtles must be New York's #1 source of salmonella, how's April even alive?

>>150285878
she has health insurance
what are you even saying?

>>150285500 (OP)
Color > black and white

>>150286118
>posts nothing
You lose.

kino coming through

>>150286344
I could tell this was Cerebus before clicking the image.

Bone looks significantly better in monochrome imo.

>>150286147
This is just arguing subjectives, there was no right answer to begin with
You need to provide an intrinsic reason why black and white would be better

"Because it forces people to be more creative" is an extrinsic reason, not intrinsic, before anyone says that

>>150286344
Church & State is really the pinnacle of comic books.

>>150285500 (OP)
>newspaper date is Christmas 1968
significant?

>>150286409
Because you read the filename.

>>150286925
Just that the sewer and the litter piles upward with how filthy New York City is.

>>150287684
What?

>>150285500 (OP)
We really more of this genre in this current day, yo.....

brush inking > dip pens >>>>>>>>
>>>>>> markers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> digital

brush inking > dip pens >>>>>>>>>>>>>> markers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> digital

>>150285500 (OP)
>monochrome comics > color
This, I have no idea why most western comics insist so hard on having everything colorized

Pure black and white looks better than grays.

>>150290870
More vivid for sure.

Are there any actually good monochrome comic books made in the last decade? You'd think the global success of manga would inspire some.

>>150292206
I don't think so.

>>150292206
Manga isn't a monochrome medium by design, it's just uncolored to save money and time.

>>150292752
It's still designed to utilize the contrast effectively. Most black and white comics can't even manage that.

LoEG would have been amazing in black and white.

>>150285500 (OP)
We're not manga

>>150294169
We should be.

>>150294737
We should be /aco/?

>>150285500 (OP)
Return to New York is so good.

>>150285500 (OP)
Who drew this?

>>150295683
We don't get panelling this good in today's comics.

>>150296285
Penciled by Jim Lawson, inked by Peter Laird.

>>150296395
Lawson really doesn't get enough credit for being so fucking good during his time doing TMNT

>>150296395
Thanks.

>>150294169
>>150294737
>>150294748
We manga man now

>>150294748
What?

>>150285500 (OP)
>monochrome
Why use that word though, American folks?

>>150286443
>>150299874
Agreed.

>>150304182
What are we supposed to call it?

>>150285500 (OP)
Opinions confidently stated as facts > Arguments

I agree btw

>>150302894
nice

I have to say I agree, though it's probably because when it comes to color in comics the first thing that pops into my head are those fucking awful digital colors lazily slapped on the linework. Even when it's seemingly done competently something about it just rubs me the wrong way, I don't know. It's not like I don't enjoy comics with color, Blacksad and Moebius are obviously amazing, so I guess it comes down to poor execution. Anyone have any examples of digital coloring in comics that are actually appealing?

>>150296395
moron here. how did they get the greyscale? It's printed as halftones but how was the original done? Was actual shades of grey paint used?

Is manga cheating since Mangakas are miles above comic books?

>>150306874
Looks like an ink wash to me. India ink + water.

>>150299874
rat-things are kind of cute when they're not trying to kill/eat you

>>150306947
1. Miura is not representative of the average Mangaka
2. Consolewars are stupid

>>150285816
fpbp

>>150306947
It's not cheating, it's off-topic.

>>150285996
Turtles (especially the box turtles the TMNT are suppose to have originally been) are hosts to salmonella. It's why they tell you to always wash your hands when handling turtles. Now size one of them up the height and weight of an average athletic teenager and have four of them live in a sewer. Each shit they take would quantify as a health disaster.

>>150306947
There's tons of genuine shit manga. Not to mention that most manga-ka have a team of 3-6 people pulling the finished product together.
Toriyama basically only drew the characters and plotted the dialogue. EVERYTHING ELSE was done by assistants. Backgrounds, shading, inking, action-lines, placement of dialogue bubbles and sound-effects were all other people.

Meanwhile, most of the best b&w stuff in the West (and the East, honestly) is done by no more than two guys. The real secret sauce is letting someone who genuinely knows what their doing have the time and creative control to do it. That's why the best b&w stuff from Japan is from artists from monthly/bi-monthly magazines and the best b&w stuff from America is from indies who didn't have big studios micromanaging every little thing they did.

>>150307338
Oh I see. thank you anon

>>150306947
Mangaka doesn't draw everything by himself

>>150308941
Akira was drawn by, at most, 3 guys at any given time, and it looks better than most almost every other manga.

For years I wondered which approach undermined artistic authorship more: A) using different artists for "penciling", "inking" and coloring, or B) using different artists for key and secondary elements, and I've reached the conclusion that it doesn't matter because even if there was a true distinction it would inevitably be informed by East vs. West fanboy warfare mentality to begin with.

>>150310678
I prefer one artist does everything, inclusing the lettering. Anything less undermines authorship.

>>150304846
Color-deficient.

>>150308941
>There's tons of genuine shit manga
yes that's inevitable with the sheer amount of manga that is made but their are way more good manga than there are good comics

>>150311067
Yeah but comics have been a collaborative art form since the beginning. Western and Eastern comics have multiple people work on the art to reach deadlines. It’s rare to have artists work alone unless they’re indie or the comic comes from a smaller publisher. I’m fine with collaboration if it still leads to good work being made

>>150312282
All I care about is the final product looking good, but it still undermines authorship if you have more than person.

>>150312282
Sure, but comics were originally only just gags or pulpy genre products for the most part but that's not tied to what they CAN be anymore, and it's notable that when there was an exception to that, it came from artists working solo (say McKay, Herriman or Eisner).

Not only that, but unlike other narrative visual arts, comics can be created by a single author with much less creative and logistical drawbacks than any other, like filmmaking (live action or animation) for example. It's an ideal conduit for individual authorship that kinda feels wasted on a mass-production assembly line pipeline with only speed as a benefit really.

>>150310678
What a silly thing to care about. They are both not ideal artistically, as art is best when it's a single vision, but they both lead to a better than otherwise result, as they compensate for lack of skills and time. Otherwise, good comics would be as rare as geniuses who can do everything involved in creating a comic perfectly and in a reasonable time frame.

>>150313230
Stating that the team-based effort will always produce better results is kind of a simplistic generalization, but certainly for the matter of time (for the Japanese models and the Western monthly book model at least) it's pretty much the only way.

>>150311863
Again, that's by sheer volume and the insane cutthroat nature of their comic industry. There's no such thing as "underground hit"; you either make it or you don't.

There's 22 series currently running in Shonen Jump (two of which are on indefinite hiatus). Of the series actually appearing each issue, the oldest running series is from 1997 and the second oldest is from 2020. 100+ series debuted and died in that 23 year gap.

>>150285816
fpwp

>>150306874
Usually TMNT used duoshade paper, but that spread doesn't really look it

>>150315067
Wrong.

>>150310128
Sure but even then, the still have to use tone sheets as one of the shortcuts to make the manga.

>>150317221
It still some of the most insane background art even without that.

Bernie Wrightson > Kentaro Miura

>>150320169
Where's Bernie's Berserk?

>>150285500 (OP)
What makes monochrome so additionally good?

>>150321436
No shitty colors to ruin the line art.

>>150285500 (OP)
Correct

>>150285816
Of course you'd agree with your own thread, OP. You ain't slick

>>150285500 (OP)
I love the rendering here.

>>150285500 (OP)
Well yeah. Almost always. The Incal really thrives with its colours though.

>>150323674
That's a drawing, dummy

>>150323697
rendering, in traditional art, essentially means shading and detailing, dummy.

>>150285500 (OP)
hell yes

>>150285500 (OP)
I like both

>>150292206
I was going to mention Order of Tales but that is a decade and a half ago.

>>150324568
No! You can't!

>>150325293
thought those were boobs for a second there

>>150306947
japanese comicbooks are still comicbooks.

>>150326557
No. They are MANGA.

>>150326557
They have their own board, so no.

>>150328158
See >>150327371

black and white comics are great but its a hipster take to say they're better than color.

>>150329724
This is gorgeous line work

>>150331245
Royer's my favorite Kirby inker in general.

>>150285500 (OP)
>monochrome comics
So manga.

>>150333561
No, comics. Manga has its own board.

>>150334036
Western manga.

>>150285500 (OP)
But color is colorful!

>>150328988
see: >>150328158

colored comics look sloppy

>>150286344
I'm doing my bachelor's thesis in Cerebus, wish me luck

>>150341823
on Cerebus *

>>150327190
>>150327371
you USA citizen language doesn't work here.

>>150308941
>Not to mention that most manga-ka have a team of 3-6 people pulling the finished product together.
Aren't comic authors the same?

>>150308941
>That's why the best b&w stuff from Japan is from artists from monthly/bi-monthly magazines
Ehem, pic related is from a weekly manga.

>>150344325
Yes, but only because of how rushed the product needs to be. What takes five guys (pencils, writer, inks, colors, lettering) in the States a month to do needs to be done in less than 5 days in Japan WITHOUT color. That's why whole chunks of manga are just done by the assistants, while the artist more or less just does the main posing of the characters in pencil and that's it.

Compare that to Western B&W artists and monthly/bimonthly manga-ka who literally do all of that artwork by themselves in a month's time.

>>150344422
That's trash.