Thread 150734249

JUNE 2023 - APRIL 2026

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marvel-announces-their-ultimate-universe-will-end-in-april-2026/

k bye

Good

>>150734249 (OP)
It's joever

>>150734249 (OP)
Rip Bozo

>>150734249 (OP)
Actually laughing my ass off, also they're 100% bringing over the Ultimates OCs over to the 616

>>150734249 (OP)
Maybe it's the end of the Maker part of the Ultimate Universe...hopefully.

>>150734469
Genuinely curious because part of me fully believes it was never intended to run past the Maker but the sale have made them think it over

>>150734469
>>150734509
The ending is just Maker going "fuck it, this experiment failed" and hitting the big red button. The beeyootiful shiny button! The jolly candy-like button!

>>150734249 (OP)
>2023
Didn't the Ultimate Universe start 25 years ago?

I hope the next AU doesn't do month fuckery.

>>150734575
That's the old Ultimate Universe, Maker made a new one with time travel fuckery before he got locked in his gooncave.

>>150734546
Hopefully Kang kills his ass first.

>>150734249 (OP)
This is a good thing. Look at Krakoa; went out like a wet fart because they insisted on milking it until the well ran dry.

is everybody still suckin and fuckin?

>>150734737
Stimpy = Maker
Narrator = Kang

>>150734778
Krakoa was always a fucktarded idea.
It never went bad because it was never good to begin with.

>>150734249 (OP)
>Universe without Carol
And nothing of value was lost

>>150734249 (OP)
Wait, Ultimates Universe was still going?

>>150734778
Wait, Krakoa isn't going anymore? What happened to their base on Mars and all that other dumb shit?

I feel so vindicated in totally tuning out this trash, but I have to admit I'm morbidly curious about how they tied it up.

>>150734778
>>150735069
said this (more or less) in another thread, but it's relevant here:
the entire [post Hickman] Krakoan era is best understood as wish fulfillment for the kind of twitter progressive that annoys even other twitter progressives

>>150735276
It ended over a year ago. The current relaunch is boring and nobody cares.

>>150735276
>is the line that regularly does well in the sales charts still going?
I'd say the most surprising thing here is that Marvel seemingly hates money, but who am I kidding. That's not surprising at all.

She’s coming to 616.
Miles bros……we won the harem pool.

>>150734249 (OP)
Business wise it's brilliant. New Ultimate is going to end up being casuals introduction into Marvel comics and comic collecting with a short, evergreen, mostly self contained universe made up of only 20ish trades with an ending like Manga.
Sales are already dipping on the monthly books, there's no point in going until the universe collapses on it's own continuity like 1616. No one wants Ultimatum 2.

>>150735475
I want it.
Even more retarded and edgier.

>>150735276
it is unironically wrapped up in about the most "Krakoa must go, their planet needs them" way possible. there's an imaginary perfect future Krakoa that becomes a mutant (supremacist, eugenicist, isolationist ethnostate - but they like to pretend it isn't, or that it's all good now because it now isn't ALSO authoritarian) community and fucks off to the WHR.

the quiet damage Krakoa did to the public image of the X-Men brand is difficult to articulate; the people being catered to (see: >>150735302) didn't fucking buy the comic books, and sure as hell didn't get their friends to, either. anyone who wasn't so caught up in the shitty ethnonationalist power fantasy that they could see the swastikas flying about in Hickman's setup were deeply put off by Krakoa. a lot of X-Men fans dropped it, even ones who liked it for the allegory, between Hickman violating characters to set it up (I don't see a way in hell that Jubilee, for example, would be on board with what Krakoa was - so she basically stops being Jubilee, and has her ethical and moral core lobotomized) and the usual suspects on twitter unironically and obliviously deepthroating authoritarian eugenics because they got to wank over their blorbos' outfits (while, uh... not actually buying comics).

it might be a decade or more before the X-Men brand recovers, barring them getting VERY lucky with the looming MCU synergy.

>>150735427
She's a lesbian though, or is Miles going to become Miley?

>>150734249 (OP)
>April 2026
Is this going to be an in-season April Fool's Joke?

>>150734249 (OP)
Absolute chads won.

>>150735558
I don't know if MCU synergy has EVER helped a book for the better, but I doubt it.
Rivals got more people into comics than the MCU did on it's heyday so it'd be more convenient if they go that route (only speaking in terms of sales)

>>150734249 (OP)
If you told someone to draw an image of a man killing a golden goose but not have animal cruelty this would be it
Fucking Hell just give DC the win unless they're also ending Absolute in that case they'd both be retarded

>>150735475
>>150735520
There will never be another Ultimatum. Ultimatum was a lightning in a bottle.
It's a combination of a grieving old man in need of therapy and a fucktarded editorial who can't say "no" to shitty ideas (we actually still have that) or tard-wrangle writers.
Marvel can do some edgy kill everybody shit, but it won't feel as anything other than childishly petty slop. I'm entirely convinced Loeb was genuinely thinking he's making a dark but heartfelt story that happened to have a lot of death and letting his demons out. Ultimatum is shit but there's an honesty and sincerity to its shittiness.
Modern Marvel can only punish you for not liking what they're doing, which we've seen hundreds of times before, it won't impress anybody.

>>150734737
Honestly part of me wonder if KANG would do that

Didn't it end 16 years ago

>>150735621
MCU synergy is why Zeb is the top writer at Marvel since he worked on the MCU for Feige.

damn RIP to this anon
>>150725389

>>150735427
Will her dad fuck 616 Surge, too, or is she too old?

>>150734469
Hopefully it brings back the actual Ultimate U in some manner close to what it was in the last few years. Which means exiling Miles back to it.

>>150735758
If he's Tony, he would. Either death or eternal torture.

>>150735856
Only if that universe dies immediately after.

>>150735856
They did that in Spider-Men II. 616 Miles emigrated there.

Least worst option for USM 22 revealed.

>>150735475
Sales are dipping because the books are bad

>>150735597
Insanity to me that Absolute only existed as a counter to the Ultimate universe and yet became a far bigger deal and completely overshadowed Marvel

>>150736025
Monthly timeskips killed the storytelling potential.

>>150735558
I thought X-fags loved Krakoa. They tend to lean way harder left than other comics fans and Krakoa gave them all the communal free love LGBTQ+ paradise they wanted.

>>150735873
No I meant Tony saying fuck it and resetting the Universe

>>150734249 (OP)
Legitimately why are they doing this? Is it not profitable or can they not sustain 2 universes with more than one comic?

>>150735915
This would be cool if what >>150736040
was saying wasn't true, especially with how bad it is in USM, like this would be neat...if Otto wasn't barely a character in that book, these books are paced horrendously

>>150735558
The average Krakoa fan can be found by looking at the X-Men subreddit and it's honestly depressing: a bunch of literal fags and trannies who only care about who's fucking who and which bad bitch queen is slaying with their fashion and sick burns like person on RuPaul's Drag Race and who view everything through the lens of being terminally online social media socialists (the embarassing type who think they'll be teachers and educators in The Revolution). They unironically only think of characters like Archangel and Havok as "himbos" despite that never being a term you could ever use to describe those characters simply because they're handsome, hunky men. Most of them do not actually read the comics, their entire worldview of the X-Men is shaped by pages/panels/discourse on xitter and Reddit, movies and cartoons and whatever agrees with their own gayfag DSA outlook. It is fucking depressing. They love Krakoa because they see it as a bunch of oppressed ethnic homosexual stand-ins overethrowing the racist, homophobic, capitalist system to form a gay socialist utopia that these fucking morons want to live in themselves. A world where they don't work, can engage in all the hedonistic pleasure they want with no consequences and if anyone disagrees then that means they're an evil regressive enemy and can be dealt with as the noble Krakoan sees fit.

The X-Men will only recover by just making normal fucking X-Men comics akin to the '80s or '90s and thus doing everything they can to drive these losers away.

>>150736158
I agree, the family characters especially suffered from it.

After Absolute Evil I came to the realization that DCs version of an "Ultimate Universe" has more going for it and seems to be better planned

Haha ohno not again

>>150734249 (OP)
Guess I am done with Marvel and superhero comics altogether by April 2026.

>>150735628
>>150735597
>>150736025

>>150736093
the problem is >>150735302 - basically any leftist at all familiar with theory would find Krakoa inherently appalling. but instead, post-Hickman (and post-any chance of a critical examination of Krakoa) the era became both written by and supported by a bunch of immature morons who just wanted a power fantasy romp they could pretend was morally okay when it presented them with a eugenicist ethnostate because "omg the poor oppressed mages i like to imagine myself to be"

not a single one of them meaningfully explored the nature of power imbalance, or the inherent disadvantage humans always have in Marvel, or the serious danger humans are always in in 616, because they prefer instead to imagine themselves both superhuman and oppressed by their lessers.

it's a fundamentally right-leaning habit that they don't want to confront.

>>150736378
>Batman controlling the top 4 best selling spots

>>150736768
It's hilarious to me because Krakoa is essentially Mutant Israel but every time this gets pointed out they just stick their fingers in their ears

>>150736811
NO BRO KRAKOA IS TOTALLY NOT ISRAEL KRAKOA WAS FOUNDED ON A SENTIENT WILLING ISLAND WITH NO INHABITANTS UNLIKE THOSE COLONIALISTS THAT DISPLACED THE PALESTINIANS AND PLUS THE ARAKKO ARE TOTALLY A STONE AGE ALIEN TRIBE AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TO THE NOBLE PALESTINIANS.

What will happen to the Parker kids?

>>150736972
Benom takes them in the divorce.

>>150736811
what's extra hilarious to me about it is the convoluted bullshit (see: >>150736914) that has to be invented in order to ensure that "uhm, no, they totally didn't have to displace a population of humans with their own culture to take over this perfect island paradise..."

...when between Krakoa and Arakko the mutants basically live out the modern rightoid fantasy of "trad" or eugenicist seasteading and/or Martian societies where they're "safe from the woke," complete with 'Superior Tech from Superior Racial Genetics' bullshit.

and they celebrate this completely unironically and without even the slightest hint of self-awareness.

the mutant cries out over the oppression of x-gene screening (while living on a depraved sex island with portals that screen you for an x-gene just to let you in) as your innocent child born with an x-gene randomly fucking explodes

>>150734249 (OP)
thank god

wtf
>>150735915
oh hey that's cool

>>150735302
it was the last time x-men were interesting as opposed to what they are today - a homage after homage, so fuck you asshole

I thought the Utlimate universe came back, like, 2 years ago. How fucking quick was it for it to die? God damn

>>150736093
I liked it, the problem is that /co/ is poisoned by politics. if you like krakoa, you're automatically branded as leftard. People who dislike it, don't care about the x-men, they just want to whine about politics

>>150736768
>krakoa was bad because modern politics
classic, and that's why talking about comics on /co/ is pointless

>>150736811
so what? it's a fictional comic

>>150737100
The worst part about it, is that people who hated krakoa era pretended to be x-fags. Sure the era had flaws, but at the same time the writers line-up was incredible Duggan, Ewing, Gillen, with Allred/Milligan doing their own thing with X-statix, which wasn't related to the main thing, but existed because of the Krakoa's success

>>150737100
/co/ and other boards been invaded by /pol/ retards for sometime now. moot could had did the right thing and got rid of /pol/ altogether when he had the chance. But coward caved and bought /pol/ back.

>>150737162
to be fair majority of nu/pol/ are tourists who came here during the first trump's term. old school /pol/ was stormfront, but at least it was hilarious. this one is just a pest

“Miles-san. My universe is destroyed. I have no where to go. I am lonely. May I stay with you in your room.”

>>150736811
It's pretty obvious. Even the very first issue of HoXPoX has Magneto in Jerusalem. And Hickman originally had the post-humans in the far future being mutants who kept baseline humans in zoos before Joe Q had him change it.

>>150734249 (OP)
>NUmarvel getting BTFO over their tainted characters being put on screen
>Tries to revamp with NUfantastic4 into wholesome
>finally sells something, but still falls behind DC

At least they're on the right track. Also pascal nailed being the racebent choice. Most people didn't notice. Bravo to the choice makers.

>>150736811
>>150736768
>Hickman: A mutant ethnostate would be bad
>The fans (and other writers): WOW COOL ETHNOSTATE

I'll believe it when I see it. Nu52 still hasn't been deleted despite the constant promises that it has.

>>150737251
It's not like things wouldn't still be bad if they didn't have the ethnostate.

>>150737251
the context is that x-men were shat for more than 2 decades, first with m-day, then with avengers, and later with inhumans. to have x-men actually win for the first time and pawn the marvel universe after being a punching bag was cathartic

krakoa also undid all of the retarded deaths for the sake of shock, as well as utilized obscure characters (like eye-scream) and even more obscure lore. it did feel like a nice epilogue to almost 60-years history. then brevoort came and pushed the reset button and turned the x-men into the unsuccesfull homage to the 90s because X-Men '97, which was actually the best X-Men media in a while, alas

>>150737280
it was either an ethnostate, or humans hate mutantkind more than even before, or mutant genocide no 783242

>>150736790
great design for the batman books but holy fuck fraction forgot how to write

....unless DC does something stupid Absolute is gonna dominate charts and Marvel Editorial will just be stuck wondering how to compete won't they?

>>150737117
You sound like you have no brain activity at all.
>durr pictures and colors what wrong what wrong me no uhhhderstand

Krakoa arc turned the X-men into an explicitly anti-human entity and Marvel acted like it was a good thing, instead of an absolute perversion of the entire concept. If Krakoa could have ran a few more years, we'd have X-men trying to Final Solution humans the way things were going.

>>150737282
>krakoa also undid all of the retarded deaths for the sake of shock

...As well as all other death. The fact that mutants were now all immortal god-beings sniffing their own farts in their ethnically clean paradise where they don't have to mingle with subhumans (previously known as regular humans) made them impossible to tell actual stories with.

>>150737077
>"but at least it's INTERESTING"
>>150737117
>"stop thinking about politics"
>"it's just a comic bro"
you don't like the shoe being on the other foot, do ya?

it will never cease to upset me that Hickman set up a perfect scenario to show X-fans exactly the horrid underbelly of what "mAgEntO wUz rIgHt" idiots are actually clamoring for, only to be undercut by editorial getting cold feet and hiring the very sort of people who needed that reality check the most.

>>150737144
>fake fans
the only fake ass X-fans were Krakoa-only stans (because they didn't even realize just how many characters Hickman had completely broken just to get Krakoa to exist without having the sane mutants trying to tear it to shreds for being a wet dream straight out of the Brotherhood). it wasn't even new stuff for the X-Men, and they acted (and still act) like it was some truly unheard-of direction to take them. Genosha existed, for one, and Sentinels deciding to kill both humans and mutants (aka humans with x-genes) is LITERALLY THE FIRST PLOT THEY WERE EVER USED IN.

the people who hate Krakoa do so overwhelmingly because they believed the X-Men were BETTER THAN THAT, and were fans of the X-Men for it - not fans of the Brotherhood. "fake fans" wouldn't give enough of a shit to care.

bet these dumbasses don't even know Bolivar Trask died literally blowing himself and the Sentinels up to protect EVERYONE from them, in the very arc that introduces Sentinels. or that the real reason he went through with making them in the first place was because a time traveling Jean Grey (and his own time-traveling mutant daughter, who the Marvel canon forgets exists entirely) scared the shit out of him by destructively fighting each other.

they get all their opinions from people who like the idea of being an X-fan for the "supports the oppressed" clout, but aren't willing to read (or buy) what's on the fucking X-pages

>>150734249 (OP)

99% likely a relaunch in mid-2026, USM (not under Hickman) and UXM are probably going to be the only ones to continue out of the current 5 tho

>>150737282
>the context is that x-men were shat for more than 2 decades
"my people were oppressed" is never a valid reason to build an ethnostate, because no valid reasons exist. you are not owed adulation for your identity just because some part of it is oppressed - morally, you are owed the adulation that ALL people are owed, and the correction is to give parity, NEVER to simply invert the heirarchy. the heirarchy is the problem.

Krakoa promoted a genuinely dangerous and hateful message, and there's a reason it slots in perfectly with the supremacist crowd. "i'm oppressed because i'm (homo) superior" is not a sentiment to be celebrated ever, no matter how upset one is that Marvel editorial had slaughtered their blorbos for cheap misery porn.

one can celebrate your blorbos being back without fellating the rhetoric of authoritarian eugenicists, but the vast majority of "Krakoa fans" online made no such distinction (whether they were consciously aware of it or not).

>>150737297
Yeah, that's what I said.

>>150736204
This is unironically true. 90% of those people are just happy characters are being turned gay. It doesn't matter who, or if it makes sense, they just want everyone to be gay and downvote if you say it sucks.

I know I'm outing myself as someone who goes to reddit, but whatever.

>>150736204
the subreddit is so ass. like the only person there worth paying any attention to is that one dude who has like an encyclopedic autistic fixation on Beast, and even he's mostly "woe is Beast" over Krakoa absolutely slaughtering the characterization Beast had as an Avenger... because the Avengers were, historically, Hank's actual friends, to the point where the Avengers are more like his adoptive family than the X-Men are.

but because Hank's got an X-Gene /r/xmen mostly wants to talk about who and how he fucks (exclusively other people with X-Genes).

>>150735915
Hickman lost me...

>>150735915
>pitch a traditional Spider-Man story only to immediately go down the Slott memory lane
Ah yes, the Insomniac classic. Piece of shit.

>>150737282
This anon gets it

>>150738006
The main villain for most of the first was Mister Negative, it already was Slott slop from the start.

>>150737849
>I know I'm outing myself as someone who goes to reddit, but whatever.
It's really one of the only places left to discuss the X-Men since places like Newsarama and Comixfan are long dead and CBR has been worthless ever since the Janelle Asselin shit that caused them to nuke the old boards. So if you want to talk about X-Men, your options are /co/, Reddit and xitter and of the three Reddit and xitter are basically one and the same while /co/ has people who have actually read an X-Men comic written prior to Krakoa.

So is Ultimate Spider-Man done done come April, or just renumbered

>>150736811
>Just accept that we're housing a bunch of actual murderous villains on our island that in some cases have world ending powers and you aren't allowed to voice your opinion on this.
The older I get the more and more I understand why the X-Men deserve a lot of the shit that happens to them

Why so soon though? I read the first 2 volumes of ultimate spiderman and I thought it felt way too slow.

>>150736972
>Universe dies
>6160 Peter and MJ sacrifice themselves to lifeboat the kids to 616
>616 Peter and MJ have their real kids now and have to figure out how things work now

>>150738757
I really fucking hate that it obvious the new characters are just going to get ported the the 616 like Miles did

>>150735915
This genuinely makes no sense and only "works" because it happened in the 616, but retards are going to act like this isn't Ultimate Wolverine level of key jangling

>>150735915
Also, I imagine this makes Gage the number one suspect for taking over.

>>150738757
>oh, you think fake kids are ridiculous? fuck you, have some more on Peter now, apologize and accept our genius
If not for the anti-MJ mandate being overkill enough to rule this out, this would be perfectly believable.

>>150738833
Superior is the most anti-Otto story to ever happen, so making no sense is hardly an issue.

>>150736266
Because they actually talk to one another about what the plan is, it's really obvious there's ZERO communication going on with anyone working on or there wouldn't be things like Hill completely abandoning any semblance to connectivity to the Maker shit or the constant tug of war that is Ultimate X-Men and Wolverine

Probably not ending.

>>150737251
They don't think of it as an ethnostate, they don't even think of it as a non-white metaphor. The current crop of social media/reddit "fans" that came in with Krakoa and a good chunk of the writers during that time viewed the X-Men not as a racial/ethnic thing but as a general leftist utopia.

Krakoa, as originally intended, was Mutant Israel whose contradictions would lead to its destruction. Krakoa, as every writer (and White) who pushed Hickman out envisioned it, is a utopian hippie commune based around indulging in hedonistic pleasure to promote warped values of peace, unity and free love before The Man comes to crush it all. This is why there's such a weird focus on sexual hedonism and shit.

>>150738743
"mutants are okay but fuck the X-Men" is a take i wish more Marvel civilians had but civilians in most X-Men books basically exist to be bigot strawmen - that got excessively bad during Krakoa and they've carried it into FtA from what i've read of the latter.

x-gene-less human characters that supported them historically have been forgotten entirely or given x-genes just to ruin the point of having human supporting characters.

as much as i don't like that Hickman never got to really finish out what he was setting up, what he did to Moira for his setup is an absolute travesty.

>>150738933
>This is why there's such a weird focus on sexual hedonism
nah, it's because that was part of the "folly" Hickman was setting up. the reproduction law was clearly a nod to authoritarian eugenics (i.e. citizen breeding) efforts, which would have tee-ed up plotlines like "gay mutants must still have reproductive sex with the opposite gender to fill our monthly mutant baby quota" and "human children of mutants will be sent to human orphanages by force," as well as other ways such a law inevitably violates personal liberty for the demographic interests of a fundamentally bigoted state.

the later writers kept it going (albeit occasionally lambasting it, e.g. via Third Eye - though that is pretty early and might actually be Hickman, i don't remember) largely because horny power fantasy is still power fantasy and X-Men fans are nothing if not horny.

you're kinda close to what was going on otherwise, but more in the sense that it was their post-hoc excuse rather than their goal. a "leftist paradise" definitionally can't be an ethnostate unless you don't understand anything about leftism besides culture war bugbears, which is unfortunately the level of understanding on display during Krakoa. what they ended up creating by sheer incompetence was basically equivalent to the ethnically/genetically pure fantasy society that was used to sell the "socialism" part of National Socialism to pre-Nazi Germany.

>>150736811
Krakoa was built on genocide and funded by the biggest governments in the world? Weird, I thought it was a previously uninhabited island

>>150737530
>is never a valid reason to build an ethnostate, because no valid reasons exist
Don't you need to be Jewish somewhere else?

>>150739335
>thinking Jews don't like ethnostates
lol
lmao

>>150735241
Who?

>>150734249 (OP)
Guess it wasn't selling that well after all

>>150739500
I still think its just hype for a relaunch and they rename the line

>>150739335
Because as we all know, the Jews are famously opposed to the existence of ethnostates.

>>150734249 (OP)
No it isn’t

>>150734575
Fuck off faggot

>>150739510
Only if it involves whites or asians.

>>150738752
Marvel got sick of Absolute stealing Ultimate's lunch money so they quit.

Is this the first time in DECADES that DC has notched a clear win over Marvel? It feels like it.

>>150739352
>>150739510
Except their own, yes. "There is no justification for an ethnostate" is a thoroughly Jewish statement

>>150739065
>but civilians in most X-Men books basically exist to be bigot strawmen
The upswing in White Mutants telling brown people their lives are worse than theirs

>>150734437
Why? Just nuke this universe, wash your hands, and move on. 616 doesn't need more refugees

>>150739500
I mean afaik it's kinda sorta isn't USM and Ultimates seems to be the ones making the most money in the line

>>150739750
One of the Incursion solicitation leaks shows Miles bring back a bunch of Tony's hero boxes to 616

>>150739750
Blue Captain Marvel
Native American non-binary Hawkeye
Killmonger
Maystorm
Natsu
And possibly the Parker children
Are all coming to 616

>>150736025
Now I see why Kevin Feige hates the comic division so much.

>>150740008
It is because the committee was plagiarizing the movies.
By stealing ideas from the movie side.

>>150740008
The comics division is ran by idiots and literal man/womanchildren that could somehow manage to fucked up boiling water, legitimately some of the most incompetent people around

>>150739660
DC Ellis winning by literally doing nothing except putting out stuff that at least MILDLY enjoyable to read, Marvel seemingly can't even manage that consistently anymore

>>150735566
She’s bisexual. Shes for Miles and 616 Armor.

>>150737332
>fraction forgot how to write
He was always shit, you are only realizing it now.

>>150739065
>mutants are okay but fuck the X-Men
I want that, but I sincerely doubt it'd be done any better than that time Wonder Man went anti-Avengers. Characters like that would be written like nuts for taking umbrage with Magneto and the Phoenix Five. He'd like down the street from a guy with a very minor mutation, and then turn out to be insane and ritualistically kill him a few issues in because reasons.

I find it amusing how often anons here would like to say how the audience for Krakoa weren't paying customers yet it was one of the much better selling comics for Marvel in quite a while and definitely much better than how the X-men books were doing in the last couple of years. Also how Krakoa made the X-men be isolationist and founded a nation when this is like their 3rd or 4th time actually. That working with mutant villains didn't make sense when that's like a staple for X-men whenever it comes to extinction threats to mutantdom so long as its not gonna result in human casualties. Now you have back your old classic X-men, there's where they are superheroes for the humans despite being hated, one for them on the run, one for them training new group of kids to be potential X-men, isn't this what "true X-men fans" wanted? Yet sales are in the gutter again. Im getting convinced all these "true X-men fans" are people who want them wiped, they are probably the same ones who like to clamor about how "X-men and mutants should go on be in a separate universe from 616 since they aren't compatible with the other superheroes" and then get mad when X-men aren't invited in other superhero events/conflicts.

>>150740816
Oh cool, let's check out this "old classic X-Men" and how it's do-
>DAE remember KRAKOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAA, feat. Kamala Khunt (clone)
I see.

https://desuarchive.org/co/search/filename/1695783992454.gif/
Oh nevermind, you think that's a positive.

>>150735915
Everybody's assuming Otto is going to do Superior but I dunno I could see Otto just larping as Spider-Man but still himself just in a spider costume. Or he makes this costume for Peter. I dunno. Either way, Superior being treated as this memberberries shit is laughably abysmally bad because that shit was awful and Marvel only does it because the BND losers love Slott.
>>150740816
A major contributing factor to that sales boost was the fact around that time they were actually trying to push them again since the FOX deal went through and people were gonna buy X-Men no matter what. It just helped that it was a new status quo. What didn't help was the books kneecapping any sort of real emotional or deep character reason for why all the good guys worked with the bad guys just because Humans do what they always do in the 616.

Sorry but I don't believe Marvel would end a commercial and critically successfully imprint early out of like artistic reasons.

>>150734249 (OP)
The Absolute state of Marvel!

>>150740921
Thanks for proving your a retard who can't read or refuse to read what I actually said. I was just criticizing what they did for the Ms. Marvel book and think about how it could have been done better if they really want her to feel like an X-men character now instead of the shit show of having her make her own X-team and being able to stop a Phoenix/Legion with just her own powers.

>>150741025
This sad pathetic consolewars shit is dead even in /v/ so seeing any form of it on /co/ with an even more dead industry is real grim and pointless. Who can even get angry anymore? They've robbed us of almost anything that was good about comic book superheroes. It's just apathy now.
All the books are good for is their art. MM even if written by Camp, still has cool art and Ultimate while giving some cool ideas like Richard and the Benom suit, I just know it won't last. Ult is just getting refreshed because Maker is getting out. Anybody who doubts that has never seen Marvel in the past 20 years and doesn't know this shit happens time and again. New names/new books/new branding, same tired old shit. The plots are stretched out and the moments don't hit.

>>150741215
>no, you see, I'm PICKY about how my krakoafag tourist crap is done
Riveting. I'd tell you to go suck a dick if that didn't get you off.

>>150740816
>Yet sales are in the gutter again.
none of your excuses and deflections are worthwhile points, but this one egregiously so.

sales were in the gutter already before Krakoa ended, that's why they pivoted, no matter how much /r/xmen wants to shit on Brevoort whenever he breathes.

there's good stuff in Krakoa, but it's frontloaded and largely squandered. when they decided to stretch Krakoa out and fully bite down on the poisoned apple Hickman put on the page, they started floundering narratively - and so did sales, given the data from endpoint stores that we have. they declined continually year-over-year until even Wolverine started falling off top lists.

cope all you like, but if Krakoa had been selling it'd still be the status quo. FtA was actually a bit of a shot in the arm at the start, but further boosted by 97. that they couldn't sustain that or capitalize is more a consequence of FtA being pretty much exactly as poorly internally planned as late-stage Krakoa was, lol - the Manhunt event was an absolute clusterfuck and a case in point, but shit like that is sort of par for the course after how poorly organized the X-Office got during Krakoa.

most annoying of all to me, FtA itself can't ever meaningfully reconcile the poison in Hickman's apple because the desperate pivot to an "older" status quo required that the characters be unilaterally nostalgic for it. it thus inherits most of the character problems as well - the poison's still in the system (opening the era with Jubilee trapping a mutant girl and her mother alone in a diner with a gang of mutant hating kids by blowing up the gang's vehicle was certainly a choice - and not one i see a sane Jubilee making, but this Jubilee did also abandon her adopted infant human child in another dimension during Krakoa).

tl;dr: Krakoa shat itself and died, and FtA was born almost immediately ALSO shitting itself and dying.

>>150740816
Nobody knows what the actual numbers are thanks to Diamond dying. We've only had lists with no actual sales figures for like 4 years now.

>>150741240
>"my team is currently making fools of themselves therefore the whole contest is stupid and i am in fact above whining about it," he whines
it's like you pulled this reply straight out of the console wars you claim to hate

>>150741532
>opening the era with Jubilee trapping a mutant girl and her mother alone in a diner with a gang of mutant hating kids by blowing up the gang's vehicle was certainly a choice - and not one i see a sane Jubilee making, but this Jubilee did also abandon her adopted infant human child in another dimension during Krakoa
The only person who's actually gotten Jubilee right since the end of Generation X is Liu and that's by virtue of being a massive Jubilee fangirl. I don't like that it was in service to a character I despise (X-23) but she obviously understood the core of Jubilee's character that makes her endearing (her cleverness, iron will and empathy) and not Generic Cool Young Woman that everyone else writes her as.

>>150741000
"commercial and critically successfully imprint" means nothing if you can't keep the momentum up. It's why Batman and Absolute are booting Marvel books out of top ten sales now.

It should have been a 6 months event at most. Nothing happens and still a lot of months to go. Fucking retarded. Also they already did the Maker is coming in X time.
Trantifa ultimates btfo.

>>150736768
A group that guises itself as progressive, but really only wants to flip the hierarchy so they become the top instead of wherever they are this week.

>>150741757
>1
>1
>12
>2
>11
>1
>11
>1
>12
>21
Can we at least get a 3 somewhere?

>>150734249 (OP)
Is everyone in this thread retarded or something? The ultimate universe that exists currently is ending. Not the concept of ultimate universe. It is just going to be reset before maker did his fuckery.

>>150741579
Ok faggot sorry I didn't clarify what I meant by "I just know it won't last" but by "it" I meant these new gimmick universes from both of the big 2. I mean it is obvious from the perspective that none of these universes last forever but I think it will die off faster than people think.
How is that?

world's strongest assocation of the most useless dickriders ever assembled

>>150734249 (OP)
FINALLY

>>150742292
Absolute's got such critical mass it's keeping an entire elseworld DC trinity in the top 10 sales list a full year after launch. there's still buzz about the line. people reliably like it when shown it, no matter what /co/ntrarians say. there's some serious momentum there, whether or not it's "all gonna end oh woe is comics."

but more importantly for our discussion, that momentum is something the Ultimates line doesn't currently have. Marvel may be trying a DC-like universe reboot for it as a shot in the arm - we'll see.

I guess it's time to read some absolute books and see what's the rage. saw a panel of batman and catwomen knocking boots, it was hot

>>150741627
her reliable (and not mutant-exclusive ffs) empathy is like my favorite part of her... and the part of her they seem to forget the fastest. unfortunately if you make all the civilians strawmen bigots, actual empathy is anathema to the clumsy, childish character writing that results.

i also think Jubilee's design and demeanor leads to certain writers concluding she's the dumb kind of impulsive associated with her choice of outfit... when her actual impulsiveness in her original characterization was more along the lines of, "somebody needs help there, so i'm going to instantly drop everything i'm doing to find a way to get it to them." up to and including helping injured enemies at her own risk.

she HATES hurting people, hates even seeing people get hurt, and that is consistent up until roughly the Wondra bullshit, i'd say. people act like the vampire thing ruined her character but IMO it was actually the New Warriors stint that damaged her most severely just beforehand.

...anyway there's an actual Jubilee thread up which would be a better place for this discussion lol

>>150734249 (OP)
Good riddance.

>>150744090
We need this beauty to come to main marvel universe first.

>>150744567
Fuck no, keep her away from the 616 cuckolds.

>>150744576
No. She will go to 616 and be with Miles.

>>150737097
Marvel realized their editors (lol there are none!) would have to actually do their jobs when it comes to Ultimate since people were actually reading it.

Everyone knows Marvel Comics are a branch where all the failed writers go, and to spitball new merch ideas. Ultimate was a fluke because they didn't expect Hickman to take it semi-seriously. Not sure why because getting the ball rolling is Hickman's strongest aspect of his writing

>>150742805
Magik and Viper are shotacons

>>150741757
Yeah Brevoort’s done.

>>150734249 (OP)
>people love Peter/MJ! What do we do?
>just shut down the damn thing
lmfao

>>150736040
Yeah it did. Reaching closer and closer to there respective issues 24's. You really see it. Save for The Ultimates, but even then you see it..idk. Don't get me stares on Ultimate Incursion. I wonder why, Ultimate editorial didn't have the respective comics have an annual.

>>150741757
>USM is the only Ultimate book in the top 10 maybe even top 20
But I get called crazy when I say these books are genuinely not good

>>150742805
Khonshu Twins losing almost immediately GENUINELY makes me wonder what the Maker was thinking, like they just seem like "regular" people

>>150744623
Based!

>>150734249 (OP)
If the new Ultimate Universe is ending, then it has to be survivors. You know, like Miles Morales survived the original Ultimate Universe.

There was a supposed leak time ago talking about several characters of the Ultimate Universe surviving the destruction of the Ultimate Universe, which includes the Parker's kids.

I truly hope to be true, because I do NOT wish to see another Spider-Family disappear.

>>150742805
I feel like there should've been an extra-book where these fuckers are doing some-fucking-thing, maybe killing lesser superheroes or forcing lesser supervillains to work for them.
Omega Red's death seems like it was supposed to be a big moment, "one of Maker's top dogs is dead, shit just got real" kind of stuff, but it feels so hollow and unsatisfying.

>>150742805
>The only real threats are Hulk, DeCosta and the Rasputin's

>>150745829
See >>150739975

>>150746081
Thanks for the list.

If the married Peter Parker and Mary Jane don't survive the Ultimate Universe, I believe the Ultimate Venom could "copy" their psyches and "download" them into 616's Peter and Mary Jane.

Similar to what happened with Jon's parents in DC in order to restore Superman and Lois.

>>150742805
>The Maker disappears and they all immediately cut each other's throats
Absolute Evil was better

>>150745884
With the exception of Hill none of them feel anywhere near as threatening as they should given the circumstances

>>150746171
*Hulk

>>150740008
Kevin Feige put in Zeb as the top writer at Marvel so he's just as responsible for the current state of the comics division.

>>150734249 (OP)
At this point I'm just going to finish USM. The timejumps took most of the enjoyment out of it for me.

>>150746139
Fuck this Hawkman design is so fucking great

Would you say Ultimate Universe is worth reading?

>>150746139
This
Ultimate Universe
>council of villains are all introduced in Ultimate Invasion > do fucking nothing most of the time
Absolute Evil
>each villain is introduced in their ongoing > does something > joins Justice League

>>150736204
I liked Krakoa in the original Hickman mini because cultist brainwashing is totally my jam. Even if it harms the franchise I'm so fucking down for SF Mutant Jonestown it's not even funny. But then I got blueballed hard by what actually followed, which was pretty much as you and the other anon described. Writing everyone as a completely out of character flaming faggot right from the start ruins all the underlying horror that should have been there.

>>150747544
It's wild to me because half of the council legit doesn't do anything/aren't tied to any specific character, like you'd think the Captain Britain would be going after Peter considering Kingpin is HIS subordinate but he never did just like Viper and Silver Samurai should have been hunting down the X-Girls far sooner than they have and don't get me started on the Moon Knight twins, like it's genuinely baffling they expect people to be excited for this when the council members are genuine jobbers save for Hulk

>>150747960
>Almost none of these characters have all interacted because they just HAVEN'T OKAY
Some of the worst pacing I've ever seen and they had 2 years to plan this out

>>150747429
No, some people swear by Ultimate X-Men but I just don't see the hype

>>150734249 (OP)
Ultimate Universe will end. It will then restart as Ultimate Universe 2

>>150747429
yes

>>150747429
I like Ultimate Spider-man, it's a bit slow though.

>>150747840
i'm in a similar boat - my initial reaction was "oh this place is rotten to the core, and i'm here for watching the true heroes here (who i at least believed would be present, since i thought these were... still the X-Men i knew and loved. whoops.) confront that fact - both externally and within themselves." what pushed me over the line of "this place isn't heroic, and literally can't be" wasn't even working with evil mutants, or Magneto's "we're gods now" speech, or the suspiciously-only-heavy-hitters oligarchy of mutants on the Quiet Council.

it was something much more subtle and clearly deliberate: the hypocrisy of portals that screened for an x-gene being employed by the same people who seethed over mutant identification laws.

it was such a perfect crack in the facade, as if tailor-made to explore the ways in which authoritarianism and bigotry have no real scruples and will violate their professed principles to achieve their ultimate goals of despotism and discrimination the moment it becomes convenient to do so.

and this was further reinforced by Kitty being denied entry, which was very clearly setting up an exploration of the ways in which such a system doesn't really "protect its own" the moment that becomes inconvenient - the levers of exclusion never go away, they just find new targets. exceptions that might threaten those levers, even to protect a "fellow [ingroup]" don't happen. instead, the victims are simply redefined as "not true [ingroup]" and/or "[outgroup] infiltrators and sympathizers."

...and then they do nothing with any of that setup and make up some bullshit about the Kitty thing being "totes a joke the whole time" because X-Men twitter believed naked, nigh-parody ethnonationalist, eugenicist propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

i only hate the Krakoa era because i loved the start of it so much.

>>150748013
It’s style over substance. Nobody would give an iota of a fuck about UXM if Momoko didn’t drew it.

>>150747544
Yeah, Absolute Superman is probably the worst of the books because it's a Superman book with the writing of a Captain Planet storyline and a Batman villain as the main antagonist, but Ra's still does more than any of the Council members. Even if there are other threats like Sinestro or the Greek Gods the members of the League aren't exactly playing second fiddle to other villains, they're still relevant.
It's hard to even distinguish the personalities of the council beyond saying that they do bad things and that it's necessary to ensure the order of the Maker's world but even the Joker is better at that.

>>150748483
I don't see it lasting if she leaves

>>150748641
Wild most of them don't even really have back stories beyond "I am evil"

>>150747429
A good chunk of the 00's one is. I won't pretend the 20's one doesn't have its moments, but I feel like it's only lasting legacy will be that people will have to clarifying they're talking about the 00's when they mention the Ultimate Universe.

>>150748682
are saturday morning cartoon villain motivations not enough for /co/ anymore?
sad.

>>150734249 (OP)
Marvel really really are the kings of self sabotage.

>>150749207
Nuance would be nice if they're treating the Ultimate line as gritty & serious.

>>150749207
It'd be nice if the evil counterpart to the smartest man in the universe didn't hire a bunch of retards to fail at doing his dirty work

>>150734249 (OP)
KWAB
Bendis won, Millar won
Hackman lost, Gayniz Camp lost

>>150736790
Batchad always wins. Part II blowing out Superkek is just going to be the cheery of the Detective Comics Pie.

>>150750287
Bendis winning means everyone loses.

>>150739660
You mean Batchad single handedly carrying DC. Superkek has done nothing.

>>150750287
>Camp lost
>even though everyone except the kind people on /co/ who performatively hate everything (and never read comics in the first place) seem to like (or outright love) what he's doing in the Absolute line
i honestly just don't think he cared as much about the Ultimate setting. either that or Marvel Editorial is so draconian that they managed to make nearly all of their writers look like they phoned it in.

between Marvel and DC, one was supposed to have the draconian editors, and the other had absentee editors. i think it was Marvel with the former and DC with the latter but i'm not 100% sure.

regardless, Marvel seems to have cornered both markets of editorial incompetence between the Ultimate universe and whatever unholy mix of negligence and chaos was going on in the X-Office when i bounced out of the X-books.

...maybe mainline X-books got better since? it was a while back. please, somebody tell me they did.

>>150748483
I liked first few issues when it had light horror manga undertones, but then it quickly became fucking boring.
Shadow King is a real disappointment and he's somehow the most developed out of nu-Ultimate villains.

>>150734249 (OP)
It was to good to last. I am going to miss X-Nips.

>>150750854
Reading Ultimates and Absolute Martian Manhunter is one of those most night and day experiences in terms of quality

>>150750890
It's literally a potential man comic, people are obsessed with what it "Could Be" rather than what it is, I've seen so many crazy headcwnons and theorycrafting that significantly smarter than anything Peach has actually done with this book and it's really sad

>>150750890
>>150752171
Ult x-men's problem lies in the stupidly large cast getting in the way of significant character development and moments. If Peach really is telling the truth that 22 issues was the plan, then Armor, Maystorm, Shadow King and Surge were already enough to tell a great story. Everyone else should've just been cameos.

>>150750854
>mainline X-books got better
no lol they're terrible

>>150752148
it's the kind of thing that makes one struggle to believe they're written by the same person. IDK, maybe Ultimates is written by Marvel Editorial using Camp as a pen name.

>>150752908
i was afraid of that.
what's the bullshit these days? i'm aware of the Storm-wanking, and the bullshit about hunting down Charles (or something/someone else? idek) was about where i dropped it.

any new layers of stupid or is it just in a holding pattern of general suck? the high water mark for me, because it was so funny, was probably that time in Uncanny when Rogue told Gambit to blow up a child. Temper seemed like the only remotely sane person on the main team. Illyana and Cain have excuses, at least.

>>150753083
The entire line is currently in the age of revelation event which about Doug Ramsey of all people becoming mutant hitler and doing age of apocalypse again. Before that it was kinda just nothing happening like they're waiting to relaunch.

>>150734249 (OP)
Again?

>>150747429
>Original pre-Ultimatum
Not really, it is massively a product of its time in a bad way. Ultimate X-Men especially is trash the whole way through.

>Original post-Ultimatum
Yes, very much worth reading. More interesting ideas are presented and it's the one time Hickman wasn't a complete shitter.

>Hickmanverse
No, absolutely not.

>>150752148
Martian Manhunter sucks, it's carried by trippy art so people think it's deep and shit. You can make 90% of comic fans believe that what you're creating has some kind of depth so long as you have the artist draw a character looking in dull shock or freaking out as they're surrounded by surreal imagery.

>>150736790
https://youtu.be/5IsSpAOD6K8?si=uSk7iYHOelHH8_sU&t=91

>>150738757
>6160 Peter and MJ sacrifice themselves to lifeboat the kids to 616
>616 Peter and MJ have their real kids now and have to figure out how things work now
Guess that's one way to get them in the movies and games. Forcing a Damian.

>>150752862
It really pisses me off how much of early UXM was Peach wasting page time on having characters standing around doing nothing not even getting dialogue, oke I insane to that Natsu and Mori up until recently never talked

>>150752148
Why?

>>150753199
eww
i do not like Cypher

>>150753982
It's trying to do atmospheric stuff like you'd see in a lot of better manga but Peach washed out of that industry for a reason.

>>150754224
even if you're all "popular thing sucks actually and only i am smart enough to not like it" kooky like >>150753321, Ultimates still has basically no artistic voice or SOVL in comparison.

>>150754559
>he doesnt praise Current Hot Thing he's a kook
It's bad. Camp is not a good writer. Ultimate and Absolute both suck and there's zero reason to read current Marvel or DC when you have a wealth of actually good books rom their pasts to read instead.

>>150741757
>Batman
>Batman
>Batman
>and Batman
comics are booming

>>150734249 (OP)
It was obvious it would end when The Maker comes back. Stories should end. Comics need to accept that for a story to have a purpose, a point, it needs to end. Milking something eternally turns it into meaningless drivel the strays from its original purpose and idea.

>>150747429
Ultimate Spider-man is really the only title worth reading if your talking about the original Ultimate universe and the new Hickman universe.

>>150734249 (OP)
Isn't the Marvel multiverse infinite?
Why do they need to end the Ultimate universe?
It's not like they need to destroy a universe to make room for another universe like DC or something.

>>150747429
The new stuff being made currently?

Only if you think this guy looks like such a cool villain you'd read months and months of multiple books all prefiguring him coming out of his walled off Starbucks sipping a onions latte.

>>150747429
Ultimate Invasion, Spider-Man, X-men, and four or five issues of Ultimates are
Wolverine and Spider-Man Incursion are horrible
Black Panther is very inoffensively generic

Off topic but does anyone know what Donny Cates original plans for the Ultimate Universe were going to be before he got in that accident and Hickman took over?

The wheel always turns between the big two. When will the wheel next turn?

>>150755095
yes yes i'm sure you'll receive due adulation for the depth and great importance of your critique any day now

in the meantime, Ultimates will continue to be markedly worse than Absolute Martian Manhunter

>>150735427
>>150744623
Keep on telling yourselves that.

>>150739865
>It's too dangerous to leave tech that the people of that universe concocted to be able to save themselves from the evil god that has been fucking with them since before they even realized it was happening
God, Miles is such a fucking cunt, what happened?

>>150753249
I enjoyed OG Ultimate X-Men.
It wasn't any good, but it had that "X-Men Evolution but edgier" vibe to it that appealed to me at the time.

I want Absolute Spider-Man.

>>150741757
>>150744729
Absolute is selling a lot, as is Batman, but the rest of DC isn't doing as well.

DC iced the Justice League book for almost three years yet it struggles to stay in the Top 50 despite having the hottest artist in the industry drawing it. Is it even selling better than Taylor's Titans? Superman is also pretty much out of the Top 50 despite DC announcing the "Summer of Superman".

And that's Superman and JL. Most of their major characters have their mainline books never even reaching the Top 100. Even books that were selling well during Dawn of DC are now struggling.

I'm sure at this point they are either regretting making Absolute (because it's heavily eating into their mainline sales) instead of just putting that energy into their mainline. Or they might just make Absolute their mainline soon.

Marvel is flooding the market with X-Men and Spider-Man minis, but they sell better than most of the books DC publishes.

>>150757186
Are any comics selling better than mainstream manga?

>>150734249 (OP)
It'll be a universal reboot and they'll keep going with zero downtime.

bump

>>150756364
It’s meant to be!

Mei x Miles shippers.
We will win.

>>150755308
Happy endings is for girls now.

>>150744729
As if that fat fuck leaving will change anything.

>>150736972
The sister and MJ dies, Ben comes to 616, and finds that Peter. He will be the reason why MJ and Peter are gonna get back together, because he tells them he is their kid from another universe.

>>150758851
>May dies
Lame.

>>150735427
No she isn't, the X-Men will get to her and groom her before Miles finds her in 616.

>>150736811
I hate that you point it out but it's damn true.

>>150758856
It is a canon event, anon. the writers are too pussies to have it any other way.

>>150758779
>Mei x Miles shippers.
You mean Ziger's self-insert pedo brain.

>>150736811
Yes, but their Israel is a GOOD Israel, anon. It's only icky when others do it.

>>150757267
Nope.

>>150758861
More like Miles will find her and he’ll encourage her to join the 616 x-men.

>>150737223
>Groomed morning! I- I mean good morning! We are the X-Men and we see that you are an unsupervised child with god-powers! Wanna come to our Island? Don't worry, the government will never release the files about it!

>>150758851
they should have 6160 MJ slap around 616 MJ for being retarded

>>150741757
>Superman beats three MCU movies
>Only Batman sells
>Bat wank increases ten fold and leaves everyone else with bits of crumbs and table scrapes

>>150758912
She’ll fit right in to 616

>>150739508
Because that worked before-_-

>>150759547
it did considering the ultimate line was pretty popular for the first year
'The World after Maker' seems to fit with a linewide reset

I am going to miss the nu-ultimate universe

I want Absolute Wolverine.

>>150757025
>tfw they're ending ultimate to make a counter universe to absolute

>>150761556
Just give me edgy battle shonen Spidey and we're good.

>>150761554
isn't that the point of ultimate wolverine?

>>150759547
This is Marvel. Relaunching stuff and repackaging the same shit with a new number one is standard practice under Shogun Yoshida. Whether it works is irrelevant.

>>150759920
>>150761699
So who's the next big villain after the Maker? Kang?

I don't understand. Ultimate Spider-Man is almost the only thing Marvel is publishing that is any good, and it's by far the most successful. And they're ending it. So they can just relaunch ten new X-Men spinoffs instead. I don't get it.

I'm liking a lot of DC books now at least, but I was always a Marvel kid. But now I look at all the stuff Marvel publishes and there's maybe four titles I'm interested in.

>>150734249 (OP)
I just want to see straight white male characters getting to be actual protagonist and heroes in their own stoires again instead of them only getting used so that girlbosses and minorites can tear them down.
I want to see straight white male characters doing cool action and fights
I want to see straight white male characters rescue cute and sexy female love intresst.
I want to see straight romance featuring a white man and a white woman.
Nothing else matters

>>150754478
I'm convinced that half it's popularity is attributed to it extensively being "baby's first manga" but with far worse pacing

>>150761934
No it's probably going to get relaunched with a new number one and a new writer whose not Hickman. It's not going to end. Don't believe what Marvel is trying to sell that the "ultimate line" is going to end. We know there's a new ultimate DD title coming up for months now.

The real problem is Marvel only has Hickman and they need him for other parts of the Marvel line up like cosmic Marvel with Imperial. He doesn't have the time to wrap up ultimate Marvel and why he's passing the torch to Camp.

>>150758863
Even down to the part where Mutant criminals retreat there for Diplomatic Immunity

No One Believes Marvel That The Ultimate Universe Is Ending. But It Is

>There are message board threads and social media conversations with people convinced that Marvel will just reboot or restart the Ultimate Universe in May. That they can't seriously just be stopping it now. And it comes as Scott Snyder, talking about DC's Absolute Universe, confirms it will be continuing past DC's K.O., featuring the Absolute Trinity, and will be expanding further. The question is, why wouldn't Marvel do the same?

>The answer is that this was the agreement made. That's how they got Jonathan Hickman to come on board, to showrun the Ultimate Universe. It would be a fixed term, it would tell its two-and-a-half-year story, told in real time, and then they'd be done with it. Close it up, don't keep on extending it, and don't have a repeat of the Krakoa situation.

>Still, even as I type these words, I know that no one will believe it. But that's the deal, and it seems from what I hear from Marvel Comics at New York Comic Con is that they are sticking by it. Even as Ultimate Spider-Man, especially, has outsold all the other Spider-Man titles regularly and consistently. So, basically, enjoy it while you have it. Nothing worth having lasts forever…

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/no-one-believes-marvel-that-the-ultimate-universe-is-ending-but-it-is/

>>150762132
I kind of stopped reading the Ultimate books when I realized something like this was going to happen. It's so hard for me to care about Marvel right now. I like some stuff, but I don't have faith in the overall direction of the line.

>>150758856
I can 100% see it happening as a shock value thing considering how much of a nothing character she's more or less been in this story

>>150754559
The books don't even have "Aura and Hype moments™" to save them, I almost never see normies talk about these books the way they do with the Absolute ones other than the occasional ending page stinger (that always amount to nothing because of the time skipping)

>>150734249 (OP)
Krakoa should have followed Hickman's multiple act plan and ended as intended.

Ultimate should keep going without Hickman, he's not even writing the main storyline.

I feel like he tried to prevent the Krakoa situation from recurring with these contract demands, but there's obviously a lot of space to keep exploring this universe beyond what they will be able to do in the next 7 months. It just seems like a bad decision.

>>150762148
Hickman's not even writing Ultimate Endgame, he literally let Camp write his Commie Manifesto, why would he care about it ending? None of this makes any goddamn sense.

>>150762328
>>150762376
Because Marvel shit the bed on extending Krakoa past where Hickman wanted to end it, they're now contractually bound to end Ultimate U to keep him happy and working for them

They dragged Krakoa on for too long and a domino effect is they're cutting off Ultimate U early

lolMarvel

>I'm going to miss nu-ultimate ;(
Name ten iconic moments this "universe" had to offer.

>>150762425
This is exactly the same situation as Krakoa though. Hickman left for some reason and other writers are stepping in. If anything those are the signs the Ultimate Universe isn't going to end until the sales dry up.

>>150762636
Ultimate Spider-Man was just a really high quality book. A great writer and a great artist.

How did DC successfully unJUST itself while Marvel keeps fucking up?

>>150762696
Creative team didn’t think the time gimmick through well enough nor properly plan around it
USM is basically exposition the book

>>150762659
No, in the case of Krakoa, Hickman planned a three act story (with Krakoa as the middle act), but due to good sales Marvel (and, allegedly, some of the other X-writers) cut his story off and just tried to elongate Krakoa indefinitely (which lead to it quickly fizzling out with no story momentum)

Then, it would seem, for Ultimate he made sure that they wrote in his contract that the line will end after two and a half years, so he doesn't once again waste years of his life building up to a conclusion that he never gets to write. But in this case there is obviously room for other writers to continue stories in this universe without impeding his story (since he is just writing a spider-man story about kingpin, spider-man and green goblin that doesn't really relate to the rest of the line)

>>150762132
>We know there's a new ultimate DD title coming up for months now.
do we? I think that "ultimate daredevil" has been reworked into one half of the two years in issue. also an artist leaked that ultimate was ending several months ago.

>>150762682
Fuck no.

>>150757186
Superman's ongoing is a bit of a poor example because it has been struggling for quite a while.

people talk about WW being distant third billing but last i checked her ongoing is actually doing better than Superman's, and i think that's been the case for most of the last couple of years.

slightly unrelated, but i'm still amused by how consistently Uncanny X-Men trounces X-Men in the rankings

>>150763245
Okay well I think it was, and most people think it was.

AAAAAAAAAREEEEEEEEEESSSSS, MAKE ABSOLUTE BATMAN AND SUPERMAN BE SUPERBASED SO THEY ACTUALLY START KILLING VILLAINS AND MY LIFE....... IS YOURS.

>>150734249 (OP)
>ULTIMATE UNIVERSE IS OFFICIALLY ENDING
Again??

>>150735558
It wasn't Krakoa, that's just a convenient scapegoat. X-Men are just the most politically inclined of Marvel's big heroes, so it was inevitable they'd become divisive in the 2010s. Krakoa was banking on that infamy to begin with, right off the heels of Rightclops. It was clear the marketing strategy for X-Men became to make them aggressively extremist to get people talking about them.

>>150735621
>I don't know if MCU synergy has EVER helped a book for the better, but I doubt it.
Synergy is the reason Hank Pym is not having his soul devoured for all eternity anymore. When your character has been the punching bag of the universe for decades, there's nowhere to go but up.

>>150754478
Feels so weird how badly she wanted to ape manga with UXM but didn't choose Jojo. Armor's practically a stand user.

>>150734249 (OP)
again?

>>150754478
How did Peach ended up working for baka gaijin Marvel comics instead of glorious Nippon manga industry?

>>150762153
Blame Akira and Tom

>>150762328
All I remember Krakoa for is making me happy to see Nimrod for once.

>>150762376
In general I don't see how anyone is supposed to get excited for this "event" when other than Ultimates there's been zero build up for it, other than Camp and Hickman it feels like most of the writers themselves don't particularly care about the Maker/Council shit to begin with but now suddenly at the 11th hour everyone is suddenly remembering "Oh yeah there was a plotline tying all this together we were supposed to be writing about but didn't until now"

>>150762636
Unironically the only thing I can even think of with the current Ultimate universe is Hulk killing everyone or the end of the first issue of USM (funny how that book turned out), inspite of its myriad of problems I genuinely believe the old Ultimates universe was more memorable

>>150763749
there's nothing special here about the 2010s - stuff almost exactly like this has happened in the X-Men fandom for decades.

the difference with Krakoa is how one side forcefully homogenized online X-Men fandom spaces while the writers themselves ALSO bought into that side. the damage was entirely within the existing X-Men fandom. wasn't even a culture war thing (those people never bought X-Men in the first place), Krakoa fans just used that accusation to shut down dissent over basically an average X-Men fandom flamewar.

most people put off by Krakoa just silently stopped reading. people willing to criticize it were made unwelcome in X-Men fandom spaces for daring to threaten the power fantasy "new status quo."

pointing out what Krakoa literally was got (and still gets) you inundated with insults and fallacious non-rebuttals. you've seen them, i'm sure -
>oh it's supposed to be irrational, because irrational bigot strawmen are 'realistic' bigots (ignore the sociological science that bigotry is learned behavior and has rational, addressable causes, we're busy dehumanizing our outgrou- i mean it's just a comic, stop thinking so hard about it silly)
>saying 'fear of mutants like Magneto is warranted' is the same as wanting to murder Glob Herman with your bare, racist hands (because not liking Krakoa makes you a literal racist, of course)
>you, like Marvel civilians, aren't allowed to be bothered by mutant telepaths constantly violating people (consent doesn't matter because the telepaths have trauma and non-mutants aren't actually peop- i mean it's just a joke in a silly comic, c'mon!)
>etc.

in fairness, that is about the level of discourse one should probably expect from people defending a fictional eugenicist ethnostate online after "look my blorbos are SMILING!~~" was enough to convince them to make proving horseshoe theory correct their mission online. it was the opposite of a welcoming community to new readers, regardless of their politics.

>>150765179
Sorry but I think I'm too cynical to buy into Krakoa being anything but outrage marketing. They knew what they were doing, especially considering Tom Brevoort's claims of how outrage tends to sell and it's what they prioritize. It was probably specifically designed to make people ask "Are they REALLY doing this?" And most casuals won't buy a book just off that alone, but this will get people talking, and eventually this will reach some old reader who dropped the book some years ago but migth buy it now out of morbid curiosity or desire to know about the new thing everyone's talking about.

>>150764967
ACKSHUALLY

>>150762636
Your pic related was not iconic. In fact, it was pretty shit.
...but damn it, it was the shit I grew up with.

>>150764757
Pierce Brosnan happy.jpg

>>150765317
think about it - nothing you just said is contradictory with what i said. it's just that with Krakoa, one side of the manufactured outrage flamewar literally hijacked the writing and the fandom, and the result was a floundering, ethically horrifying mess.

they tried to pivot away from the fall that was set up and clumsily turn Krakoa into a "business as usual" holding pattern. it failed to even really generate new outrage because the fandom had driven the other side of said flamewar out. it failed to grab new readers because if you didn't come in already biased, Krakoa made itself look fucking horrid by catering directly to one of the worst and most vitriolic parts of comic twitter... in an outright refusal to outrage them, because the writers agreed with them.

>>150734437
>>150734469
I think the opposite, they are bringing those to the first ultimate and then relaunch that.
>>150735621
>I don't know if MCU synergy has EVER helped a book for the better, but I doubt it.
Iron Man for a brief moment, but then Gillen , Bendis , slitt ,cantwell and duggan destroyed the character( ironically Slott did the less damage)

>>150736131
Don't want Hackman to go to DC or happen another krakoa.
Also , I felt Absolute is being talk more and more because they were a slow build brand while Ultimate outside Spiderman It felt they want all in

>>150737144
>Ewing
No
>Duggan
Holy shit, no, he only made one good story and was cowritten(Deadpool)

>>150757186
They should take Absolute as the opportunity to deboot back to the pre-Flashpoint timeline. Do some corrections to it (i.e. erasing stupid shit like Gay For Justice and de-aging Lian) and smooth it/streamline it a bit, get an editor who will be a continuity hawk and force writers to adhere to it and stop making every character gay, get rid of all the shitty Tumblr/Deviantart tier artists who can't draw.

Use Absolute as the new thing for new fans and market the mainline as a return to form for veteran fans with the characters and even some creators they know (maybe try and lure back Johns to be in charge of it or replace Javins as EiC while letting him continue Ghost Machine at Image) as a means of trying to win back the core fanbase. Lower the prices of the books by $1 or $1.50 and accept that the floppies are just going to be loss leaders to get people into buying the trades. There's nothing of value in the current DCU anyway.

>>150763428
Uncanny is seen as the "main" book because it's called Uncanny and has the bigger and more popular characters (Rogue, Wolverine, Gambit, Nightcrawler). MacKay's book is inarguably the more important one in terms of story but MacKay isn't as big a name as Simone, Adjectiveless will always be seen as secondary to Uncanny, and it doesn't help that his book is Cyclops and a bunch of third stringers... and not even interesting third stringers but a bunch of Schism era losers.

>>150762696
Absolute is sold entirely on aura farming which is all dipshits care about nowadays. They don't want actual stories, they want characters stading around in cool poses and swinging swords and shit. You could make a book that's nothing but 20 splash pages of Batman doing aura farming poses and the brainless morons would eat it up because it's "hype" and they can post the pages on social media for attention.

>>150764702
She's not actually all that good and her husband realized it was easier to market her in the United States. She's a pin-up artist playing at being a comic creator.

>>150764702
She gets to work for the same company that's owned by Disney, which is catnip to women.

No one on /co/ can explain why Krakoa is fascist but Judge Dredd is based without outing themselves.

>>150766516
>Thinking in /pol/ terms instead of just entertainment value
NGMI.
Judge Dredd while a nightmare to live under is fucking fun to watch while seeing a bunch of pretentious losers hang out on Israel/Epstein/mugga island while they espouse their superiority was only good when Nimrod did a orbital drop on their asses.

>>150766243
>maybe try and lure back Johns to be in charge of it or replace Javins as EiC while letting him continue Ghost Machine at Image

ewwww awful awful idea

Johns is washed

>>150762636
uhhhh... the fat evil asian kid killed discount magneto. that's something right?

>>150734249 (OP)
It was always just going to be a limited time thing, wasn't it?

>>150762636
Nta but Light work
>Howard Stark finiding out how "The meat is made"
>The Ultimates getting BTFO'd by The Hulk
>Peter Parker accepting his origin box
>Shadow King killing the Maester
>Dooms Origin
>Black Panther being saved by Baast
>Black Panther getting other Africans to chant his name
>Surge vs Nico
>"Lets fix the wolrd"
>The Makers Council causing a false flag attack in New York
>Spider-Man and Green Goblin vs Kingpin

>>150768076
Honestly Doom's origin issue was the single best issue of the entire line

>>150768130
looking forward for the continuation two weeks from now

>>150739865

>Two months until Maker returns
>All the Ultimates have is a handful of heroes and an army of mostly unpowered high schoolers, which probably won't do much against whatever
>Even if all the existing heroes team up, some are definitely going to die if they fight a Council with the resources of five entire continents, much less whatever fucking abomination Maker has turned himself into after 2000 years
>Ult Tony wondering what happened to all the heroes he was supposed to be creating
>Miles nigged out and just fucking stole them
I hate him so much.

>>150734778
Remember how it seemed like they were going to address how fucked Krakoa as a concept was and reveal that there was some horrible secret behind it or something.
And then they just...didn't.

>>150756609
>everyone dies horribly with a few exceptions barely making it out
>one of them is Richard with Benom.
>they find out Miles basically sabotaged their only chance at fighting the Maker

>>150748424
I always thought Hickman's original plan was to lean into the reality that Krakoa was a bad idea from the start and that the Council was corrupted by power or there was mind control going on or some shit and have it end with the X-Men themselves fighting the Council and destroying Krakoa, but Marvel got the completely wrong idea from Twitter fags and refused to let him do that, so he just left.
And then I looked it up and that's exactly what happened. That's why that era is so weird in hindsight -- it's a story whose writer was fucked over a third of the way into it, leaving the rest of it to be written by a committee of fags.

>>150756609
>Miles is such a fucking cunt, what happened?
The Ultimates gave it to him if those non lettered pages are anything to go off of

>>150764757
Scary to me that my mind thinks land whale Sabrina Carpenter is more attractive than regular Sabrina Carpenter

>>150768502
>Two months until Maker returns
>All the Ultimates have is a handful of heroes and an army of mostly unpowered high schoolers, which probably won't do much against whatever
>Even if all the existing heroes team up, some are definitely going to die if they fight a Council with the resources of five entire continents, much less whatever fucking abomination Maker has turned himself into after 2000 years
I genuinely don't see how the Ultimate Heroes don't nigh instantaneously get murdered the instant Maker gets out considering at this point he's had to have potentially spent like a billion+ years in the accelerated city there's no way he isn't smart enough at that point to not instant kill all of them

>>150746658
I'm honestly surprised it took them this long to give Hawkman a mummy motif because of the whole Egyptian thing

>>150743036
The idea is basically that Darkseid created a universe like Maker did. The difference is that instead of actively changing things, Darkseid passively makes the universe worse just by existing, with the planned end result eventually being that the Absolute Earth turns into a New Apokolips.

>Krakoa sucks cause the X-men thought they were better than the humans who constantly abuse and kill them despite saving the world, and the only good parts of Krakoa was when they got their shit kicked in
Im pretty convinced some of you "X-men fans" are ones who just have masochist fetish or like having a group of superpowered individuals save your ass whilst you can abuse them all you want.
Krakoa had a lot of things going for, besides still having your standard superhero saving humans with X-men and the young teens book New Mutants, they had dealing with cosmic stuff with SWORD and Red X-men, dealing with magic in Excalibur and Knights of X, black ops shit with X-force and Hellions, investigative focus with X-factor, exploration/saving other mutants with Marauders.
But instead anons here are just more hung up about mutants not getting along with humans like its some big crime and they are owed it. Never mind the fact that its not like Krakoa has actually tried to strike and war with humanity, its just that they are feeling smug at the advantages they have and not giving away all their benefits for free, as if the FF and Avengers aren't also keeping their miracle drugs and technology from the public.

Ultimate bump

>>150766516
they can both be fascist
whataboutism is not the gotcha you think it is

>>150736204
Modern X-Men "fans" would make unalive pacts under their zodiac signs if they ever read old X-Men.

>>150769213
Well... it is because he was designed after those shirtless pulp adventurers,than he had his mask redesigned to be more like those of a superhero, than he became an alien, etc...
He wasn't really designed to be Egyptian looking

>>150771926
It pretty much goes back to Havok's speech in Uncanny Avengers and all the flipping out they did over it It's honestly amazing they put so much stock in the X-Men yet miss the basic underlying message of the books.

>>150771478
>arguing with something nobody here said
>the boilerplate "all (non-mutant) humans are evil" from the Brotherhood
>BUT THE CONFUSING SIDE BOOKS NO ONE READ
it was a foundation of ethical repugnance on purpose. they weren't 'trying to do right' or 'just figuring things out' - they were deliberately portrayed as going full bore in exactly the direction that all bigotry goes... until X-Men twitter took over the writing and engaged in willful ignorance of the rot just to stretch out the facade.

this is the thing i can never understand about the 'you're a chud for not liking Krakoa' crowd - they had mutants living the chud wet dream, motherfuckers! how much less subtle did Hickman need to be?! were a few issues more of the power fantasy before the cracks started peeling open to the truth really worth giving up the moral core of your heroes? i suppose for some people it was... just not enough of them to be sustainable.

Krakoa was always going to end eventually, but that instant gratification of stagnating in a story just before the hideous flaws in the facade were torn open ensured that the ending was compressed, disjointed, and nearly meaningless to the story that led to it. it ensured the characters had no opportunity to confront and CORRECT (or just fucking learn from) the flaws in Krakoa's foundations.

i truly believe that Krakoa stans taking over actually robbed us of the chance to move into a more positive status quo PERMANENTLY - something not founded on contempt, fear, and a legally mandated breeding program. a blind craving for 'more hits of mutant wanking NOW' guaranteed that what followed couldn't carry the Krakoa status quo forward, because they never had (or made) time to confront the rot.

a heroic "Krakoan society" as a haven for ALL oppressed didn't have to be off the table at the end of Hickman's run, especially as a conclusion to confronting flaws within both Krakoa and themselves. but they wanted the quick hits more, ethics be damned.

>>150768769
That's how a story like Krakoa is supposed to end. The heroes realize that what they're supporting is not good or not worth the harm it is causing and end it. It is heroic and brings things to a close.
What are we left with if a story can't do that? A sense that things were working perfectly, and they would have continued if not for those uppity retards over there who can't appreciate this vision? That this side didn't have fatal moral failings, just people who fatally failed it?
It's fucking stupid. Take pic related, replace it with with "none of this was on us, go lock Thor in his crazy box again and let's knock over some more countries", and you would have approximately the Krakoa level of stupid.

>>150773073
>chance to move into a more positive status quo PERMANENTLY
Ah yes, that's why Peter and MJ are back together and married, the Thing can now turn back into a human whenever he wants to, Hulk and Bruce become one in the same, Thor ascends to be king of Asgard... You really think there'll be a time where mutants and humans are gonna get along?

Krakoa was the closest compromise to keeping tension between mutants and humans whilst also still letting X-men be heroes to the humans AND mutants get to experience some peace and happiness instead of constantly watching their back from humans.

Though I will agree that the conclusion was done pretty badly, id say that highlights more that they really just wanted to revert to the old status quo and didn't actually have good plan/idea on how the Krakoa society was gonna collapse since it was doing actually pretty good so far as a guarded island nation split off from the general public, like just look at Atlantis, Latveria and Wakanda, with the citizens learning to work together and get along. The only real exception were Council members in-fighting and vying for control, with the Sinister stuff being the only one that really expanded from beyond just mutants, but that was dealt from within and the crisis mostly averted thanks to time travel that only select individuals would have known about it if it weren't for that time when Mikhail made Colossus vote for the information to be made public. On paper, besides being a show off at times and retaliating from external attacks, Krakoa as a nation hasn't done anything really heinous, especially compared to other nations. Oh and Beast's actions I guess but its kinda presented as him just going AWOL rather than being actual orders.

For me, I think Krakoa could have been a new status quo for the X-men, just maybe have a couple of mutants defect or live in far places and the portals to stop working so they aren't that overpowered as a force.

>>150766516
Dredd is based because he is making his job

>>150774191
>it's just that they screwed up the end
you're missing the point - a screwed up ending was literally the only way it could've gone with how meandering and disjointed the books were. people coming in didn't know what the fuck to read, and most of it didn't mean shit to the main story.

Krakoa was in no way a fucking compromise - it was a kid gorging themselves on the contents of a cookie jar. contents which had also been deliberately poisoned, but the kid didn't care and lashed out at anyone who mentioned it. the stomach ache was made inevitable by both impulsive gratification seeking... and forgetting about the fucking poison.

>Krakoa worked well
you really have no awareness of the subtext in Hickman's stuff, do you? it's a sizeable chunk of the era. did you just forget about it the moment it stopped being presented as the hideous societal philosophy that it was? did you never notice at all? it never goes away.

"everyone gets along" wasn't something remotely narratively earned, it was something facilitated by quite a lot of mutants acting quite little like themselves. mass mind control was a legit theory about it before Hickman left. you knew that, right?

Krakoa didn't "work well," it just had later writers who collectively decided to ignore basically every negative shred of subtext and every possible negative consequence in the context of 616 of the shit Krakoa was doing, just so Krakoa could keep doing it. solutions weren't provided, the problems were just ignored or given token "uhm, ackshually, we have solved this off-panel" asides. it disregarded cause and effect just so the kid could shovel more poisoned cookies into their mouth.

and yes, for the record, i do think that "autonomous mutant-friendly (but not fucking exclusive) community" would have been a feasible place for Marvel to take the X-Men. Marvel doesn't seem to like the school status quo anymore, and it would be essentially an evolution of that.

>>150766243
>s the opportunity to deboot back to the pre-Flashpoint timeline
Anon, already are.
New 52 is consideres even for the heroes a weird time were everyone acted like tard and Superman was Young.
But let see
>Wally is flash and Barry retired(till a Big crossover happen)
>JSA happened in WW2
>Hipolita was Wonder Woman in the JSA >Geoff Superman mini isnthe canon origin like It was pre-flashpoint
>Dixon stuff is canon
I think the only thing touched were
> Byrne's Man of Steel and pre-exile stuff(and waid Will reintroduce the thing that he likes for example Toyman killing kat's son and conduit)
>Geoff's JL first arc being the team origin because casuals like It
>Aquaman pre Geoff and maybe azzarello WW being canon or not

>>150757186
Williamson Superman has been selling alright, I think the problem with comic is that we don't have the tracking manga have like Oricon. For example we know the current Flash run was selling well because the authors said , Condon"s Green Arrow sold like a shit and GL seems like It selling again well.
The plan with Superman probably is to wait and does a relaunch with a new team like they did with Batman and Wonder Woman. Wouldn't surprise if they put deniz Camp or 4F's author there(Jason Aaron and Tom King will go there at some point but they wont be the Next writer)

>>150774891
No, the current timeline is a fucking mess of contradictory nonsense where it's the New 52 but with pre-New 52 stuff sprinkled in but the context of a lot of is changed and then there's the absolutely retarded changes that have been introduced since Rebirth got kiboshed on top of it.

It's a confused mess because writers just do whatever the fuck they want because the editors either don't care to run a tight ship or don't have the spine to.

You know, over the years of following this dumb shit known as comic books I've yet to see Hickman write an ending. It's always the same pattern: he comes in, outlines an idea, builds it up over a year or so and then it just fizzles out. Happened with Ultimates, happened with Avengers, happened with Krakoa, even his indie work is like that. Hell, I'd call him an idea man if he wasn't actually scripting the damn things.

>>150755095
Camp's gigantic issue is his lack of balls. You even see pieces of that in Absolute MM when it touches on whatever communities get affected by white martian, but it's doubly prominent in Ultimates. It's what's supposed to be his wet dream scenario: a bunch of heroes staging a revolution against the establishment, finally sticking it to the Man. Yet the whole thing is kids gloves version. There's no build up to anything, most Ultimates' terror actions are off-screen, any recruits they get don't feel impactful because they're then absent for the rest of the book and don't get any characterization (Hawkeye being the absolute worst example of this). Even their attempt at social network kind of upheaval feels insincere somehow. The book just fell off a cliff after the Hulk showdown.

>>150774985
The only mess is with Superman (and that has been true since 2006) and is obvious Action Comics is a retelling to fix the timeline.
Right now we know secret origins and part/all waid origin are canon, Matrix and triangle era stories happened (in a different way because Luthor wasn't older) but new krypton and grounded didn't.
Superman and Lois became fathers during OYL instead post grounded.
The timeline was as messy as was late 00s

>>150775439
...Lois became a father?

>>150734249 (OP)
again?

>>150774834
>you really have no awareness of the subtext in Hickman's stuff, do you? it's a sizeable chunk of the era. did you just forget about it the moment it stopped being presented as the hideous societal philosophy that it was? did you never notice at all? it never goes away.
I did get it and even without looking what he actually said, there were a lot of ways he planted for it to come crashing down besides the boring mind control twist, from stuff like Doug infecting Krakoa with the techno-organic virus, to there maybe something mixed with the Krakoa medicines given to the humans, to how Krakoa could just on a whim neutralize all mutants on the island with a psychic blast, from how their bodies are dependent on Sinister's DNA who has already shown he sidestepped Xavier's mental suggestion, the fact that Moira banned precogs, etc. But those things didn't come to pass, plans ended up changing when there were a lot more readers and the other writers who liked the current status. Hickman ought to just have given another year or 2 for the writers to get it out of their system and just pepper in how there's shady stuff going on to remind them that its not gonna last and still make sure the books are headed in the same path for his other acts, its not like he's a stranger for really dragging out his story lines anyway. But instead he decided to just leave it all for them to handle when he couldn't get things to happen when he wanted them to instead of trying to compromise, and when you look at how the new Ultimate universe is starting to show its cracks due to the deadline limiting how much they are able to do.

I do agree that the Krakoa storyline went a bit too far and long if they had no intention of letting it be the new status quo, however I do also believe that there was a lot more potential and stories to be done with the Krakoa setting before they follow what Hickman's plan for the next act.

>>150775586
>>150764398
>>150763680
>>150753234

Yes, again.

Jesus Christ, the Absolute Universe raped them like Gordon rapes the Joker

Mary Jane should've been in the story more.

>>150775778
She had enough pagetime

>>150766339
>noooooo how dare absolute try to be fun and cool? it needs to be boring and lifeless like muh ultimate!1!

>>150775388
To be fair I am inclined to question imhowich of it boils down to not having the time and page space

>>150777017
Absolute is boring though.
Only Batman is even mildly entertaining and only because of how stupid it is.
>muh Wonder Wo--
Fuck no.
>muh Martian Manhunter
Commie hack Deniz Camp trying his hardest to do a poor man's version of Milligan's Shade the Changing Man is embarrassing.

>>150771926
I really miss idealist Cyclops. Krakoa had made it where the only characters I can even remotely still call heroes basically have become Gambit, because he didn't do fucking shit in the arc aside from fuck off to do Excalibur things, and Nightcrawler because he at least had a mini where he got to say "yo this shit is fucked."
Every other X-Men felt like they were holding the retard ball and lost every single moral trait that defined them for literal decades. Why the fuck would half the roster agree to the quiet council shit? I don't care about "muh resurrection" reasons, that shit is on the same tier of fucked as granting war criminals like Omega Red legal immunity just because of his genes
What a fucking joke, yes I'm mad

>>150753321
His Ultimates is far worse.
AMM is not deep, it just takes a different enough direction to break the monotony, and the art is nice to look at. That's it.
AMM is a 5/10, The Ultimates is a 2/10.
>>150755095
>there's zero reason to read current Marvel or DC
That's true.
>>150777952
It's overall less boring than the new Ultimate stuff.

>>150775439
Batman's also like this. Batcat boatstreet, Year One, Zero Year, and No Man's Land all happened. Cyborg was a founding member of the Justice League and a Teen Titan. Everyone's history was restored, writers can pull from any timeline they want.

>>150777017
I hate Ultimate too you faggot. Are zoomers completely incapable of thinking in anything other than binaries?

>>150775590
>instead he decided to just leave it all for them to handle
many people suspect he was pushed out by the writers who replaced him, and precisely because he was reminding them that he set it up to fail (and that's where he was going to go, because it was his fucking story arc - Hickman somewhat notoriously flouts the continuity of work from previous writers, which is the Doylist explanation to the Watsonian "are all these heroes mind-controlled because they sure are acting odd" explanation for the changes in character).

given what they were saying about it at the time, even knowing Hickman's habits, i don't think "alright, we'll stay here a bit longer" was an option he was ever given as a compromise. given that his contract was probably ironed out well in advance, it may not have been an option he even legally had (to say nothing of the lack of respect it would have for his own time - he probably didn't want to stay there forever). i think the other writers tried to make his deliberately flawed setup a permanent status quo immediately, Hickman be damned, compromise be damned... because that's effectively exactly what we saw happen.

i also don't think Hickman honestly had plans for post-Krakoa. i think he wanted to tell his Krakoa story and then leave, or he wanted to end up in a more open-ended place by the end. if the rest of the writers had been even slightly patient, they probably would have had a fairly easy time pivoting from that to a "we'll actually do it right this time" post-Hickman 'Krakoan era.' such an era wouldn't have had all those cracks in the foundation and wouldn't have been naked, desperate, genuinely hypocritical wish fulfillment... and so it wouldn't have needed to collapse suddenly and clumsily after floundering for so long the whole line needed a hard reset to "anything BUT Krakoa" just to pull the X-Men comics brand out of an interest death spiral.

>>150781373
>i think the other writers tried to make his deliberately flawed setup a permanent status quo immediately, Hickman be damned, compromise be damned... because that's effectively exactly what we saw happen.
The two main writers who replaced Hickman were Duggan, who was already there, and Gillen. Duggan didn't really seem to have a plan other than writing liberal power fantasy until the wheels fell off, and Gillen was setting up an ending from issue one though this ending also included Krakoa getting shunted off into an alternate reality where unimportant-IP mutants could leave in peace and harmony for all eternity.

>>150779213
His Ultimates isn't worse

>>150781561
Duggan was generally suspect #1 for the 'leader' of a clique who pushed him out, but people also suspected it was basically him AND the rest of the X-office writers (maybe not Gillen, but it was still possible) who were responsible for getting him to quit.

it really did look a bit like "Hickman vs. every single other X-Men writer" from the outside when he left, but discussion about that was being drowned out in online spaces by excitement over new outfits, new shipping drama, and Krakoa being "here to stay, chuds [who never read X-Men in the first place.]" places like X-Men twitter and /r/xmen have shifted towards wistful nostalgia of the Hickman stuff these days, but that's somewhat hypocritical - there was actually a lot of complaining about him from many of those people while he was still writing the era.

>>150781373
Hickman has said Krakoa was one of three storylines he had planned for his run in X-Men, which goes along with stuff we suspected or knew that Krakoa would have ended in act 1 or act 2 of his run.

the ai and the children of the vault stuff would have been even less relevant especially if we use his interviews and the alternate future in Inferno as a guide of what he originally wanted, which would have the Dominions being destroyed by Sunspot in the cancelled Imperial Guard/New Mutants book and the Children of the Vault being defeated by a returning Apocalypse and his Children/the 4 Horsemen.

>>150782077
i don't know that the alternate future is a good guide to his overall plans, but regardless... waiting those stories out and then moving to a better Krakoa as an evolution from the school status quo (Marvel doesn't like that status quo probably in large part because it is too small in scope to be believable anymore) made a hell of a lot more sense than what they did, if they really wanted to keep the concept of Krakoa alive for exploration.

basically the only way Hickman's storyline could have prevented such a pivot after he was done was by permanently Death of the Inhumans-ing mutants... which was never going to happen because editorial wasn't about to allow that.

>>150782025
Hickman handpicked Percy for X-Force and there doesn't seem to be any issue with Duggan since they're co-writing Longshots together. The meathead just genuinely wanted to play around in the sandbox some more and Hickman was fine to just walk away and let him do it.

The panel seems to confirm it's ACTUALLY dying and not getting relaunched, I'm guess that shit they said a few months back about it running longer was them trying to save face after it got leaked the books were ending ahead of time
https://x.com/AIPTcomics/status/1977101569826210113?t=pj_nNcbmHLgIQT-j7VIYkg&s=19

>>150782932
> there doesn't seem to be any issue with Duggan since they're co-writing Longshots together
this is a bit of a fraught line of reasoning - just because they're willing to work together on something else years later (and even if they don't have any real animosity towards each other) doesn't mean they didn't butt heads to the point of one leaving during Krakoa. if Hickman left in a sort of acquiescent way, i.e. "well alright, i'm not gonna convince you to cooperate with this, but i don't want to write where you're planning to go, so i'm out, knock yourselves out" there wasn't necessarily any personal conflict involved.

not saying that definitely happened, but not everyone in the industry holds grudges over stuff like that. some absolutely do, yeah, but i don't know if Hickman or Duggan are among them.

>>150783259
Co-writing isn't co-writing really, they're not working out a script together. Hickman is just coming up with basic plot outlines and giving them to editorial who passes them to Duggan. It's easier to break it down as "Jonathan Hickman - Plots, Gerry Duggan - Script" which is how shit like this USED to be broken down. Marvel stopped doing that at least going back to Immortal Iron Fist though where they were using Brubaker's name as "co-writer" during Fraction's run to make it seem like he had a bigger role and thus use his name to sell books even though Bru stated that he wasn't really doing more than giving plots to Fraction and said plots were more suggestions than anything and almost all of it was Fraction.

>>150783438
Ditto for Hickman's Secret Warriors that were "co-written" by Bendis. He has denied he ever touched the books in his book signings.

>>150783484
Yeah, I suspect that Bendis' contribution was coming up with the basic concept of "Nick Fury trains a team of kids to fight Hydra" which counts as far as Marvel is concerned since it means they can use his name as a draw. I mean it's possible that Hickman and Duggan are genuinely writing Longshots together but the more likely scenario is that Hickman came up with a basic concept for the book and Duggan was recruited to write it. Given how sales on the X-Men books started tanking when he was running the show and how fast West Coast Avengers died itmakes sense to try and use a more popular writer's name on the book.

>>150783438
i mean that kinda just reinforces my main point that Longshots isn't really evidence that they didn't butt heads during Krakoa.

>>150734249 (OP)
goodbyye

>>150734249 (OP)
Watch them not actually end the universe and that event just shakes the universe up so they can get a writer who’s not Hickman

>>150787198
not according to >>150783020

>>150783020
I love how they have to keep saying this because no one believes Marvel would make a decision this stupid.

>>150787535
How is it stupid when everyone is leaving ultimate in droves for absolute?

>>150783020
>>150787260
They can still relaunch the whole line with new #1s tho

If a couple months after the books end there still arent grumbles of a relaunch then it’s probably actually dead but until then this is the company that relaunches multiple books 12 issues in with the same creative team

>>150734249 (OP)
Why are people thinking the line is really dead?

It’s obvious as hell they’re going to use the event to soft reboot the line and relaunch everything back at #1. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the plan all along considering Hickman likes putting his toys back in the box when he’s done and Peach Momoko’s X Men is way too different from what the average comic reader think XMen should be.

>>150788283
>Peach Momoko’s X Men is way too different from what the average comic reader think XMen should be.
Is that why UXM got as far as it did while every other 616 X-book kept flopping?

>>150788863
Unironically yes

>>150787535
What's stupid? Ending a story when it's come to its natural conclusion? Or running it into the ground?

>>150734249 (OP)
That panel was embarrassing save for that Iron Man stuff

>>150788283
Because nobody WANTS it to be rebooted and relaunched. How many people in this thread are mourning it? Is it more or less than the number of people confusing it with the old one or asking "again?"

>>150790413
Why?

>>150777981
>after all that, just a "you're jewish?"
who is this based individual?

>>150737117
Krakoa was bad because it:
>Continued the dogshit trend of the X-Men wanting to segregate themselves from humanity
>Was predicated on a shitload of massive retcons to start up
>Relied on a bunch of characters being retarded for the sake of mutant solidarity
>Completely abandoned the idea that Krakoa itself was a flawed premise from the word go (as was very clearly established from the beginning) just to pander to retards like you
>Ended on a complete wet fart that felt completely tangential to the broad ideas of the era. How should we end our mutant ethnostate story? Why let's have half the story be that the bad guys win and then get utterly murdered by the X-Men, then have the other half be some cosmic wank around Mister Sinister that has nothing to do with anything!

>>150739065
Reminds me of pic related

>>150737282
>The context is that the X-Men had been shit for decades
>So that's why it was good that they remained shit but now we could be smug about "winning"

>>150739975
>And possibly the Parker children
Not gonna happen. If they were gonna go down that hacky route they'd have done it with Mayday years ago

>>150740816
>Also how Krakoa made the X-men be isolationist and founded a nation when this is like their 3rd or 4th time actually
>That working with mutant villains didn't make sense when that's like a staple for X-men whenever it comes to extinction threats
Those were shit too. I don't think anyone shitting on Krakoa has been happy with the past decade or two of X-Men stories
>Now you have back your old classic X-men
No we don't. The current era is nothing like the X-Men comics from back when they were good

>>150758851
But Peter's already met kdis that an alternate universe version of him and MJ had. He's met the grown up version of his miscarried child, some new kid means nothing to him

>>150734249 (OP)
RIP

>>150734249 (OP)
Bye

>>150734437
Oh God no

>>150788863
Considering the way Peach is currently talking it seems like even if they're relaunching it, she's probably handing the reigns to someone else

>>150796425
I'd hand the reigns to someone else too if I was forced to let Ziglar touch my characters.

>>150734437
The only new characters I can think of are the X-Kids and they are too good for main Marvel

>>150789367
>natural conclusion
lol

>>150734249 (OP)
Again?

>>150796546
I want the in their own manga verse with Leopardon Spider-Man

>>150796425
Given that she's writing and drawing the book, there's no way she have done this on a long term basis. She was bound to hand the reins to someone else.

>>150797633
ultimate x men sold because of the art. take that away and you're left with a generic team book

If Peach is gone, which series is she gonna next?

>>150797873
I don't understand why they chose Peach for Ultimate Xmen. That makes no sense. Her art is cute and manga. Doesn't really fit such a dystopian world. There were other books she would be better on

>>150734249 (OP)
good riddance.

>>150798034
Guess which setting UXM takes place in.

>>150798034
I thought it was obvious. It's because Cebulski is a weeb. That's why we had the Attack on Titan crossover and also an Ultraman comic by Higgins also from Marvel.

>>150796425
>>150797633
>>150797768
Honestly considering the sale tanked, she might of gotten tossed

>>150798699
That's sad. Her art is really nice.

>>150797873
Put her on Magik.

>>150798699
That would be a bad move considering how unique her art is.

Can we stop pretending Momoko's "art" is something amazing and not just shitty kindergartener-tier doodles?

>>150799034
I seeing rumblings on Twitter that Hickman wanted out and instead of just cutting him loose they're throwing everything out since it seems like Camp also didn't know it was getting put to bed

I am not saying Momoko was the second coming of your favorite mangaka, but given how stale and sterile current american comics are, her style was a breeze of fresh air.

>>150799175
No, it's just as shitty as the rest of modern comic art.

>>150799060
Her art is extremely 50/50

>>150799153
Editorial is such a shitshow at Marvel

>>150798729
It's not

>>150758779
Miles, you already have a mutant girl in your harem.

>>150794886
they don't do it often probably because there is no rebuttal to
>i don't care that you're a mutant, look at what you've DONE!
not even Magneto has a tirade speech for it prepared.

>>150736204
>The X-Men will only recover by just making normal fucking X-Men comics akin to the '80s or '90s and thus doing everything they can to drive these losers away.
oh you mean literally what Brevoort is doing with From the Ashes?

>>150799224
25/50 more like.

>>150799224
>>150800223
Her art feels like Togashi's when it's obvious he's dying

>>150783020
I'm actually laughing seeing people use the cope that it's ending before it gets bad, like genuinely none of these books went anywhere worth paying attention and now that it's clear we aren't getting a "time skipless" era, it further cements how shit of an idea it was

>>150800175
Hard to say since it flopped

legit what are they even supposed to do the moment the maker gets out
it's been nearly two years but peter and the like feel so inexperienced at this crap that they'd probably get put in the pavement in seconds

>>150801005
Timeskip to the part where he's beaten.

>>150801005
What can the maker even do? He's just a stretchy man with a shit eating grin

>>150801194
And cutting edge technology

>>150801005
As much as I like the Nu-Ultimate Univese the entire thing was a failed writing experiment. Just constant wheel spinning instead of using the medium to actually tell the story. Yeah you have a time limit but thanks to the powers of FICTION you can just bullshit and extend the limit indefinitely (within reason)

So what's plan after Nu Ultimate ends? Is it just gonna be 616 only for the next decade?

>>150734249 (OP)
Honestly for the best, don't want another Krakoa where writers refuse to move on from playing in their sandbox and drag down the overarching story.

>>150801499
The Avengers against him have a space station

>>150768567
Still wish we could've seen what Hickman had planned, Krakoa was just part 1 of 3 if I remember right.

Okay. New Ultimate Spidey was good but the rest was just shit. Why did they even do this in the first place?

>>150801714
Ultimate Avengers is great.

>>150735915
Seemed pretty obvious considering the last issue where Otto has the spider in a jar

Rob was right again.

I think Hickman's major falling is that he's simply too autistic to handle topics like character interactions and family dynamics without coming off as robotic. He's all about big wheels within wheels and big spectacle, rather than human moments. That's why I didn't enjoy his Fantastic Four back in the day.
Of course USM is still hundreds of times better than mainline Spider-Man, but that just says a lot about the state of mainline.

>>150801829
Rob says every comic is awesome, dude

>>150800175
No because everything is still wrapped up in Krakoa nonsense and you have books like Uncanny which are awful and not really X-Men books.

>>150801953
Citation needed.

>>150801885
His failing is that he's not a real writer. He's an idea guy who doesn't think about his stories beyond the cool and totally innovative idea. And his ideas are invariably shit because they all boil down to "what if stakes high but everyone is dumb asshole".

>>150800253
Don't even joke lad

>>150801005
>>150801553
Tony's going to factory reset the timeline and none of it will have ever existed

>>150802186
>Incredibly well done face and hands
>Everything else is an unfinished sketch
The most Togashi image I've ever seen

>>150801553
>Hill wasted so much time on UBP that based on info at the NYCC panel it seems like whatever has was trying to do has been completely scrapped and Storm herself is the Child of Light
and people say Wolverine is the worst book

>>150802322
I'm still mad. The first arc was meh but the current one is genuinely the best Black Panther has been since Man Without Fear/Most Dangerous Man Alive

>>150802402
I don't know what he was thinking, even without wasting a year on the Khonshu shit, it felt like the story he wants to tell would take significantly longer than the amount of time they were given to work with

>>150802505
I would not be surprised if Hill, like us thought there would be a relaunch, or continuation after the Maker returns. Hell I woulden't be surprised if them Old Yellering Nu-Ultimate is a recent decision.

>>150801953
The really telling parttm to me all shit aside, is that he covers almost none of the Ultimate books consistently anymore

>>150801673
Isn't it implied that the reason everything went to shit in the future is that teen Tony became Kang to fight Reed?

>>150797873
Maybe a Magik book since I think someone said she initially wanted to have Magik be part of UXM, whether that would be another AU like that one she did for Psylocke or they could have some shakeup with her being off the X-men team due to events of Age of Revelation.

Or if she wants to stick to her expertise and do japan characters, then she could do a Surge book since no one seems to be using her character.

>>150796425
>Higher than zero percent chance Hisako never meets Storm

People put too much stock into Hickman's plans and assume just cause he actually has interesting and unique ideas that he can actually nail it all. Remember all the hype for this and how Hickman was given complete free reign to do what he wanted? That they also teased how its just gonna be a mini BUT if sales are good that they'll make it an ongoing? There's no guarantee that even had Krakoa gone the way he planned, it wouldn't have still resulted in the current fragmented era of the X-men.

>>150806734
This was funny because you know they wanted it to be Marvel Sandman but what they forgot is that Gaiman actually knows how to write stories with the whimsical broodiness something like "representations of esoteric concepts interacting with and exploring humanity" needs to work. All Hickman knows how to do is throw around charts and big sounding words to make himself seem smart.

>>150798699
It seems to me that to avoid getting Krakoa'd again, Hickman signed some contract that forces Marvel to end Ultimate on his terms. Even if Camp is writing the final arc.

>>150798699
What are the odds she shows up a year from now in DC to do Absolute Teen Titans?

>>150797873
It would be extremely funny if DC poached her for an Absolute book

>>150807789
I think the thing I hate most about G.O.D.S. is that it de-mystifies the Abstracts and magic it makes it all aesthetically "scientific"

>>150808006
>>150808025
Kino

>>150808025
A teen titans mini?

>>150808025
How long does her contract lasts?

>>150808006
>>150808025
Unironically Momoko being on Absolute TT and using characters beyond the fab five and TT03 (like how she basically ignored Claremont/90s X Men show) would probably be a godsend to the franchise considering how badly it needs to be shaken up
She knows how to make cute OCs too so that’s a plus

>>150808040
What I hate the most is the redesigns a lot of abstracts got

>>150808107
She signed one in 2020 but I don't see any news of her having signed one after that so who knows.

Do exclusives normally last over 5 years?

>>150806408
She got leaked in Rivals and the devs are her biggest simps so perhaps you'll get your wish.

>>150808040
How else is Hickman supposed to let you know how smart he is? Sounds like someone needs some charts.

>>150808610
FUCK YOUR CHARTS TONY

>>150808006
>Absolute TT
>Not Absolute Cassandra Cain

>>150734249 (OP)
damn

>>150808025
when has DC ever tried to go for a manga style?

>>150810924
There's that one shot with Death from the Endless

>>150810924
Isn't there an entire Batman AU based on toku series? Why ISN'T that in manga style?

>>150812239
Yes

>>150810924
They’re doing right now with Immortal Batman

>>150815537
cute. shame we didn't get stuff like this in the actual book.

>>150796956
The end of Ultimate Invasion made it quite clear that that the Maker and his city were locked away for 2 years real time. This is what they've been building to the entire time. Once he's out they have their big final conflict and then the story ends.

>>150815742
I just wish this Parker family stuff also included Benom.

>>150781373
>i also don't think Hickman honestly had plans for post-Krakoa
i think he wanted inferno to be the end of krakoa, followed by a third act of the story which would have been some kind of cosmic drama involving dominions and post humanity that he set up in the original minis. it was probably not the kind of story that could easily support a whole "line" of side titles in the same way that krakoa did, which is probably a big reason for things going the way they did.

>>150801611
Spider-verse vs Venomverse vs Deadpoolverse vs Wolverineverse: The Search for More Money

>>150768076
Nothing from Ultimates was good. But I do find it hilarious that the woke version of Hawkeye is a native.

I bet Scott Snyder is enjoying winning by literally doing nothing >>150734249 (OP)

>>150816634
Piss off Didiot

>>150766516
He is fascist tho. But he's a principled fascist, unlike the X-men who are just selfish and hypocritical fascists.

>>150800175
Far as I'm aware the X-men are still bitching about Krakoa falling, they're still segregating themselves from all human spaces save for one or two teams, they're still teaming up with dillbags like Magneto and Apocalypse, they still own Mars, and they're still dealing with all the leftover bullshit from Krakoa such as mutants being locked up in some kind of mutant prison and every human nation no longer trusting the X-men for all the bullshit they were pulling or let go on without opposition in Krakoa. So, no, not like what Brevoort is doing.

>>150817299
If the X-Men were more like Dredd I would support them

>>150755484
Cates doesn't even know himself

>>150817299
This, Dredd follows the same laws and regulations he forces everyone else to, to a T and is completely uncompromising for good and ill. Krakoa X-men from day 0 made laws that were bullshit, arbitrarily and unfairly applied and much of the leadership and their goons flouted said rules.

>>150817372
>X-men are still bitching about Krakoa falling
Well to be fair, they did lose a safe haven, I think that vigil gala was the last which also was so dumb that Dazzler just fucking let herself get captured when they could easily fight back against some sentinel dogs.
>they're still segregating themselves from all human spaces save for one or two teams
To be fair, there's basically only 3 teams active at all. X-factor got shut down, X-force disbanded, Nyx shouldn't actually be a team at all but its hard to tell if they are still around or also dissolved, Storm's team iirc is off-world more due to her dealing with magic/cosmic threats than being away from humans, also isn't she part of the Avengers right now?
>they're still teaming up with dillbags like Magneto and Apocalypse
Mags was like way before Krakoa, also technically a bunch of X-men did oppose Pocy in the aftermath and some did try to stop his successor selection, just that he basically fucked off to Mars and hasn't done anything really, directly anyway.
>they still own Mars
Pocy does, and I think only Storm's team have gone there since Krakoa ended
>and they're still dealing with all the leftover bullshit from Krakoa such as mutants being locked up in some kind of mutant prison
It kinda made sense with catching Xavier and some actual villainous ones like Omega-red and Sebas but its kinda bullshit that they also caught other mutants who've clearly not done anything wrong to humanity during the Krakoa era like Blob and Siryn
>and every human nation no longer trusting the X-men for all the bullshit they were pulling or let go on without opposition in Krakoa
This was kinda already the standard before Krakoa though.

>>150817950
So yeah, like I said, the X-men are still shitty and still wrapped up with the remnants of the Krakoa bullshit.

And honestly, I just don't want to think about Storm, even if I do like her they just glaze her far too hard for me to enjoy it. She was already pretty cool as a weather manipulator and team leader, she doesn't need to be fucking Eternity's herald or whatever the fuck else they're doing with her.

>>150817544
Morr like he doesn't remember

>>150817299
Based Dredd

Was Jitter in any of the Dougapolypse previews?

>>150818516
I don't think so.

>>150816523
Hickman's spiderman is overrated.

>>150817950
>they did lose a safe haven
Krakoa was never all that safe, but the thing that makes it hypocritical is that they talk like they miss the safety but they ACTED like the kind of people who would actually miss all the power of effectively living in a gated community for people with superpowers in international waters.

the hypocrisy of Krakoa cannot be overstated... because it was kinda the point.

at this point i've been forced to the conclusion that a lot of X-Men fans are genuinely just too stupid and "media illiterate" to have even realized what exactly they were cheering for. if you want to fight fascism at least notice it when it's right in front of you FFS.

>>150816583
He has said in podcasts and interviews that the dominions were never intended for the mainbook, but rather for a New Mutants/Imperial Guard that was suppose to happen. It's why I think the alternate future in Inferno where Omega Sentinel was from was the future that he had planned if things had gone accordingly.

>>150818678
There's a reason those fans are called LARPers. They genuinely do self-insert themselves as the oppressed super-powered sexy people who could kill all of their enemies in horrific ways but don't because they're too good, and they'll remind you of it every single second. But don't you dare say a mean no-no word or they'll kill you in the most horrible gory fashion because you deserved it, you anti-kike, er, anti-mutie cischuderino.