Thread 150758027

>>150758027 (OP)
I think the intention was very much for people to read it and think
>what a shitty fucking society both America and Dredd are products of, let's not let ours become like that
but unfortunately, people are retards.

>>150758062
>>150758027 (OP)
Dredd was morally in the right though

Also it’s weird the writers want us to think the judges are evil fascists when they consistently demonstrate exactly why the judge system exists and why the city can’t exist without it (don’t remember if this changes after the nuclear war kills most of the city)

The judges making bad calls because they’d end up ELECTING a leader who ends up evil or crazy like Judge Cal hardly seems to prove the system is bad, rather that people fuck up systems. Same as voters electing a bad president

>>150758027 (OP)
Why did you repeeat the same thing twice?

>>150758027 (OP)
Cry harder, faggot

>>150758027 (OP)
Stop using words you don't understand, like hero and fascist ... you disgusting liberal vermin

>>150758095
...Jesus we need to gatekeep dredd.

>>150758095
>>150758422
This is why Dredd discussion isn't fun on /co/
>NOOOOO!!!!! Dress is strictly a fascist monster! You can't enjoy him fighting crime!

>>150758027 (OP)
He's much, much more complicate than either of those things. We've seen time and time again that he has a heart and genuinely cares about people, but he's so engulfed by his sense of duty that he stays devoted to a clearly broken and evil system.

Essentially, he's a good soldier in a bad army.

>>150758469
>censoring swears in 4chan
Faggot

>>150758027 (OP)
Dredd fanatically imposes the law. That's it. He doesn't make the laws.

Anime fags think being mean makes you a fascist.

If you're going into anything Judge Dredd to look for serious morality, you're lost. It's a series that's concerned with aesthetics, and how crazy the world is. It's about bastards fighting other bastards, and that's one of its main appeals and functions. The fact that people don't automatically get that is kind of strange to me, especially when so much of it is inherently very blunt and comedic, on purpose, because it's supposed to be nuts. There's a genuine subset of people who think all fiction is created to have a meaning or message, and the idea that something crazy existing simply for the sake of existing is nonsense. You may as well be watching Superjail and saying it's a critique of the legal system, or Happy Tree Friends and say it's critiquing children's entertainment. We all know that's wrong. It's crazy just because it's crazy.

>>150758689
>There's a genuine subset of people who think all fiction is created to have a meaning or message
Those people created Dredd. The problem is that Judge Dredd is supposed to be a two-way street, the Judges are objectively a terrible system and MC1 is objectively a terrible society. A totalitarian, corrupt police state presiding over a faddish, easily riled, sociopathic populace doing anything for their next dopamine hit.

>>150758027 (OP)
Why is the non-discriminate application of laws bad?
Why don't the citizens change the laws if they don't like them?
No, I haven't read any Dredd comics,so I am honestly asking these questions. I just remember liking the 2012 movie.

>>150758747
The early case files don't have messages heavy handed messages though. Acting like the entire point is the message is stupid

>>150758027 (OP)
>Sure, I'm all for rights. But not at the expense of order.
That's completely right, though. Even the most Liberal philosophers knew that you needed order to have rights.
In fact, we only have rights because we have order otherwise we would still live in barbarism.

Idgaf lil nigga. He’s cool, that’s all that matters

>>150758027 (OP)
Peoole whi arent faggot liberals lile authoritarian governments

>>150758434
Dredd is both. You are meant to read Dredd and think the crime-fighting action is cool, but you are also meant to read Dredd and think "wow this is an awful shithole I am glad society is not like this".

The funny thing about the Dredd world is that a lot of the details in it are things liberals want. Everyone is guaranteed basic income (but not employment; people turn to crime out of sheer boredom). There's no discrimination of any kind (which means nobody gets to feel special and again they turn to crime in order to do so).

It's satire. It's always been satire, and applying real world ethos to it is missing the point by a mile.

>>150758095
Mega city one is awful because the people perversely want it to be awful. A bit like Portland. Every other world humans settled on is a paradise. You want fifties America with advanced technology and the bad parts filed off? There’s a world for that. You want sex party land ? World for that. You want Britain but it doesn’t suck and we got talking dragons? World for that. The point is that Mega City one is the way it is because the people want it to be that way. Why? They’re fucking crazy. That’s why.

Part of the appeal of Dredd is that he is a retard and a straight man at once. He is a retard because he applies stupid laws regardless of the circumstances, and he is a straight man because the citizens are even more bonkers to the point that the lawmakers started creating retarded laws to address retarded situations.

>>150758839
Even faggot liberals like authoritarian governments. That much they've shown in the past 15 years.

>>150758920
Americans love fascism on both sides of the aisle, they just want to make sure that the jackboot is coming down on the necks of the other side.

>>150758839
Did you have a stroke?

>>150758952
This. No one, and I mean no one would have a problem with US turning into a North Korea tier dictatorship as long as the dictator put the "correct" 50% of the people into death camps.

>>150758434
>You can't enjoy him fighting crime!

This is what Marvel editorial thinks right now.

>>150758027 (OP)
It seems the writing is beyond even you. I connect the most with Noam, he’s the only real good guy the city has.

>>150758027 (OP)
>one person must be one thing or the other, there is no sense of relativity or moral grays, everything must be black and white
The point is that Dredd may be a moral man, but he's part of a terrible brutal and evilly monstrous system that can only justify its existence in a world that is perpetually on the brink of destruction and ruination. In other words, in a comic book. And it's even though he knows the system is broken, Dredd himself is inherently too set in his ways and ultimately scared to change that or move on from his role beyond what he knows as a Judge, with his only hope being that the younger generations learn from his mistakes and can push for a better society without being held back by his cynicism and bitterness.

Like hell, there's an entire storyline covering the origins of the Judge system instituted by Chief Judge Fargo, with that same man on his deathbed confessing to Dredd that the Judge system was a monster of their own making, never meant to last as long as it did, and begging Dredd with his last breaths to relay his dying wishes that the Judges do the right thing in dismantling the brutal dictatorship they created and restore democracy back to the people...and Dredd ultimately chickens out and never tells anyone what he heard. Because being a Judge is all he knows, and it's the only way he can understand how to protect the people from themselves.

It's almost like this comic is made to make you think about the value of stability and order vs freedom and human dignity, huh?

>>150758027 (OP)
Man you are so dumb

>>150758027 (OP)
Dredd is British he's certainly absolutely taking a giant piss.

>>150758027 (OP)
if a liberal call something fascist then it must be really rad

>>150758027 (OP)
Hit's a little too close to home, huh?

>>150759912
Sounds like the judges are alright if they stop total chaos

>>150758438
Yeah this, he is not le heckin fascist either way you split it; he hates killing unless truly necessary, never uses torture, and takes crooked judges down all the time

>>150760121
Considering that oftentimes the difference between having the Judges and not having the Judges is that the city is under assault by zombies, pissed off robots, belligerent fatties, invading armies, or actual avatars of death and decay, the people of Megacity One really don't have much choice in the matter.

>>150760054
I love how Dredd has kept these guys and simps around since their inception.

>>150760235
But who’s to say it couldn’t be better or easier to deal with them without the judge system in place that long?

>>150760542
Exactly. That's kind of the crux of the democracy issue presented in the comics. The Judge system works as basically a massive military force fending a never-ending onslaught of violent groups trying to outright destroy Megacity One. But whether or not the existence of such groups inherently justifies the scope of the political power the Judges enjoy or is just an excuse for power-hungry dictators to hold onto said undeserved power is a matter of heavy debate. And there's no clear-cut answer.

>>150758027 (OP)
CHAOS faggot can't live in a world of LAW is all that I am reading from you, anon.

lol they’re fat and want to be treated with dignity and respect

>>150760054
That's Baron Harkonen

>>150758027 (OP)
That's one of the darker, serious Dredd stories. Then you have stories like classic Cursed Earth where he's fighting an evil Tyrannosaurus called Satanus and is constantly risking his life to do the right thing.

>>150758027 (OP)
If you actually lived in a Mega City, where this story takes place, you would see him as a fucking super hero.

>>150758095
true, the larger point of the story is theyre essentially saying America could become a 'mega city' if the right conditions arise. But its all looney tunes satire not meant to be super literal.

>>150758777
youre correccct but the thing is those people like the one who youre replying to dont read that stuff. A solid 50% of the stories are crazy bullshit happening just for the sake of it like youre saying. On a deeper level some innocent people are driven to crime out of necessity and those aspects have social commentary but its mostly explaining why the city is so fucked because you cant be 'good' even if you want to or youll starve and lose your home. Which is not the case irl in the majority of the world. Its justifying why everything is so crazy... so that crazy shit can continue to happen.

>>150758920
honestly theres lots of examples of Dredd going easy on people who are good and didnt deserve what happened. Theres also examples of him applying the law too harshly, but mostly feel like hes good at determining when someone is actually bad or evil.

>>150758903
That does recontextualize things a bit if it's the one place that sucks out there.

>>150758062
The only intelligent post in this thread, but unfortunately for you, it was always supposed to be a chuddy strawman seethe thread from the beginning, first post or not

>>150761293
Yeah it's basically confusing aspects and implications of the setting as an ever present part of the message when most of the time it's just cool or wacky shit for the sake of it

>>150758095
The flag is literally under his boot anon. It symbolizes an overreach of power, which may or may not contribute to the problem. The people who he’s judging are mere products of their enviorment. There is no justice in that, because the root causes like mental illness, poverty, and unemployment are neglected. Judge Dredd has created for himself a human farm where he can live out his sadistic power fantasies in the name of so called justice

>>150758095
He’s not morally in the right tho. The people live in an enviorment that breeds criminality. True justice would be to lower unemployment, treat the mentally ill, reduce poverty etc. The negligence of these issues ensures that things will never change for the better, and Judge Dredd perpetuates this status quo, hence the flag being under his boot. It’s the epitome of being reactionary over proactively PREVENTING crime. They are more concerned with maintaining THEIR order, THEIR justice, THEIR laws. Absolute power corrupts absolutely as they say

>>150758027 (OP)
I used to be against all authority but that was because I was influenced by media aimed at me to rebel. I've seen what a life of rebellion gets you. We need order because we're out of control.

>>150762661
there is no infastructure and resources to lower the unemployment and treat the mentally ill or fix the economy. Oh look another block war just started over meaningless bullshit. Thats the 5th one this week.

>>150762661
For the record, anon, the problem is that you're comparing Dredd's environment to ours, when the issue is that Mega-City One is uniquely a shithole by design INSPITE of the citizens being theoretically given everything they could ever want. Criminality, unemployment, and poverty aren't borne from a lack of jobs or economic disparity. It's because all the manual labor is left to robots while all the citizens are paid at minimum a living wage to live in their cubes, leading most to turn to shit such as drugs, crime, and general excess out of BOREDOM rather than necessity. Same with mental illness, most people who are mentally ill are already given free drugs to shut them up and not given any further thought, and only are given any further treatment or isolation if they break the laws. The whole point of Mega-City One is that the populace are left ill-educated, over-fed, overstimulated to keep them in line, and it's still not enough to stop people from trying to wreck the place as one desperate expression of human freedom.

>>150762880
>It's because all the manual labor is left to robots while all the citizens are paid at minimum a living wage to liv
I think this is a point that isn't thought of as much. This is a big change in perspective when trying to judge their world.

>>150763071
>>150762880
Yeah, too many people seem to be happy to compare mega city one like it’s completely analogue to reality but there’s like a 97% unemployment rate there, and people are only given welfare on a subsistence level so they end up turning to petty crime for money to enjoy things or do drugs. Let alone organised crime for those who want to climb higher

>>150762661
Dredd isn’t a leader, he’s one man who is very good at his job of being a street judge. He’s not morally in the wrong for doing the best he can in his situation.

Leftists don't understand complex characters and want to force them to adhere to some sort of black and white morality that doesn't exist not only in real life but even in the fictional world itself.
Judge Dredd is a good person who wants to see justice done, but he is a willing participant in a system of justice that is overzealous and at times self-harming. But at the same time, that overzealous system exists because the Megacities are shitholes and one moment of leniency results in an explosion of crime. Is the system bad? Yes and no. Are the underclass oppressed? Yes and no. Is Judge Dredd a 'good' person? Unequivocally yes, which is why he is the hero.
But none of that can make sense to a leftist. Either the society is just and utopian, or it is bad. Either someone is working to free the oppressed and fight the tyrannical, or they are evil. There is no room for grey morality.

>>150758027 (OP)
He is. In a crime-ridden place like Megacity 1 he and his fellow judges are the only thing that keeps the place in one piece.
Also while brutally efficient and ruthless towards criminals, Dredd is still one of the nicer judges.

>>150763276
Dredd's morals are absolute like Mr. A. The difference is Mr. A is a vigilante (which as an objectivist should know is bad or else it wouldn't be illegal) and Judge Dredd is made to do his job legally. Also, Judge Dredd comics are intentionally funny.

>>150758027 (OP)
judge dredd is nortubel tier anyway

>>150758903
I think the problem is half endemic unemployment and most of the earth being completely fucked by nuclear war. If they gave juves and up anything to do, it would cut down on boredom and free time for crime.

Whenever we see other megacities around the world, they always seem to simultaneously be better, and worse, than mc1.
The judges and laws are often way more lax, but the corruption is way more endemic in their systems.

Mc1 is a shithole. But their judges tend to be the way more pragmatic and effective. To a fault.

at the end of the day, dredd is the protagonist, but that doesn't make him a hero. And while he can be heroic, that doesn't mean what he represents and protects, is good. It's almost as if it's satire.

When you watch Robocop, it's cool and you root for him and quote the funny shit from the world, but you'd never actually want any of it to exist. Same for dredd. Within his world you root for dredd, but you'd never want him to be real, much less his world.

The best that his world and system can offer, is the fact that dredd himself is an honest man. And he actually cares about justice. Even if that justice is not always moral justice. Dredd is brutal, and legalistic to a fault, but he's still the one you want to show up to the scene, because you know for fact he won't be bought or bartered with. Problem is that is a double edged sword considering if he takes a gaze at *you* he might find something to send you to the cubes for.

>>150758027 (OP)
i haven't read any comics with this character before, but by the discussion so far, it seems as if it's based on the false premise that if there was a chance at utopia, most humans wouldn't try to do GOOD, HELPFUL things out of boredom, not bad, unhelpful things

>>150760542
>>150760747
>the System is necessary because the System actively destroys any alternatives
Remember, the Justice Department isn't just a questionably functional, totalitarian police state, it's a questionably functional, totalitarian nanny state, and a questionably functional, totalitarian civic bureaucracy as well. The guys in leathers swinging daysticks and riding around on Lawmasters are the exact same guys processing your building permit applications and teaching driver's ed.

>>150763773
It's satire mixed with pulp fiction, anon. The whole comic started as basically a beat cop story in a scifi shithole parody of LA mixed with Britain, making fun of contemporary issues or whatever the writer felt like doing at any time. They had an entire set of issues where after an absolutely horrifyingly brutal invasion by the future soviets, a cut down in rations lead the local populace of morbidly obese people to not only protest the food rationing but make a crime syndicate called the "League of Fatties" so that they could ensure their eight square meals a day. Like look at pic related, half of the stuff in the comic is meant to be intentionally stupid.

>>150764374
That's also true. We do technically follow one of the few non-corrupt and competent Judges in the form of Dredd, since it's a point that a non-insignificant number are incredibly incompetent or corrupt pieces of shit.

>>150763598
>>150763276
Dredd is an asshole.

>>150763291
He's usually fair and honest, but he's not one of the nicer ones.

>>150762880
>>150763071
>>150763200
I'm pretty sure some of the early case files have stories about people turning to crime specifically because they're bored since nobody actually has to work.

lol

>>150763598
Pretty much any of the "sidekick" Judges will get you all the benefits of dealing with Joe without the risk of an 800 cred fine for having a cracked drain cover in your sink after a futzie blew up 1/3rd of your Block.

>>150764550
The interesting thing is that despite finding them a bunch of offputting weirdos, just like he does with Simps, Dredd has zero issues or animosity towards Fatties in general.

>>150758095
Well the Judges hamper any attempt at making their citizen's lives better like banning a cure to the common cold because more leisure time=more crime so their cits being retarded is partially their fault.

>>150758027 (OP)
the fundamental problem with judge dredd debates is that he is not a character written by a single writer

>>150764808
Yeah and even if you just stick to the "core" writers the way some characters are written by John Wagner and Pat Mills is pretty different.

>>150764789
Are they wrong when crime is caused massively by boredom? The common cold isn’t killing people just making them lethargic and bedridden for a day or two

>>150763598
Every time they need a new Chief Judge, someone begs Dredd to take the job because he's incorruptible, embodies the Law as much as a human can, knows the best-worst course of action, and has saved Meg-One and the world dozens of times. However, becoming Chief Judge is the one sacrifice Dredd won't make for his city, but he's 6th member of the High Council.

>>150758027 (OP)
>>150758434
>>150758639
Judge Dredd is a satire.

>>150765008
Dredd knows he’d be a terrible leader so it’s good he refuses it

>>150765083
What’s the point of satire when it’s so non commital while also it’s fans get so mad when people “miss the point” by thinking Dredd is a badass hero?

Does the narrative messaging matter or not?

>>150765190
People are dumb, anon. It's like how Harry Potter fangirls treated the twerpy rich racist prick Draco Malfoy into a sad lonely and tsundere kid who wants to bottom for Harry. Fans will see what they want to see and ignore the parts that contradict it.

>>150758984
You really only need to send 13% and there is literally no social, moral or economic downside to doing is.

>>150764976
Why do you think crime is mostly caused by boredom?

>>150764808
He was for decades though.

>>150758027 (OP)
Rightoids can only interpret things in a literal sense. They can't extrapolate media to any greater idea or allegory, the Starship Troopers movie is an example of this. They see and don't think.

>>150758839
Almost everybody likes authoritarian governments when their team is the one handing out the punishment.

>>150763341
>or else it wouldn't be illegal

>>150766236
It's amusing how lefties really don't understand their political opponents

>>150758027 (OP)
When you have the shitty dystopia being the best of all possibilities, there's no real alternatives, the shitty dystopia is the best things will ever get, aren't we so smart and sophisticated to side with the people we know are in the wrong, you're not sticking it to The Man anymore. You're making excuses for The Man. Fascists aren't "missing the point", you changed the point. All the fascists glomming on is no one's fault but your own.

>>150758027 (OP)
>judge dredd is a fascist piece of shit
I liked it when in the earliest comics Dredd was the moral core keeping things together.
I liked it when it made fun of people who have soft on crime opinions, partly because that doesn't work in Megacity One, partly because it's real life satire.

Seeing Dredd stood over (or nearby) the US flag is about as weird as seeing black characters in a Dredd comic. That flag shouldn't exist anymore in his world.
And the wordswordswords, and the heavy handed reference to the statue of judgement? It feels like current American comic writing, and shit, but that's weird because I thought Dredd was created by an American writer and he did a good job.

>>150758095
>(don’t remember if this changes after the nuclear war kills most of the city)
I haven't read particularly far afterwards, mostly because 2000ad just isn't restoking their case files year on year, but I was disappointed with the story where the judges were harassing a journalist into giving them good press by manipulating his dreams or whatever it was.
That's SJS territory.

I like that it's a world where democracy went wrong in a way it almost did (nuclear war) and that's just a random background excuse to create the police state world it lives in. And most importantly we have none of the political faggotry that cares about capitalism/communism, somehow, from a comic series made during when that was a big deal.

>>150762661
>He’s not morally in the right tho. The people live in an enviorment that breeds criminality.
Uhhh... I remember...
Cursed Earth had the alien (and Dredd) point out all humans are evil, greedy gits.
Several comics that say people need rules.
One comic that said the Judges are the cause of (some) problems.
I don't remember Megacity One being to blame, unless you consider a utopia filled with boredom the problem and not the people who decide being bored = crime time.

Is everyone talking about later Dredd, like when he was gay and kissed a man?

>>150758027 (OP)
>>people watch this and think BOPE are heroes instead of a fascist pieces of shit.

>>150766236
>>150766501
No one understands anything or anyone.

>>150764976
>The common cold isn’t killing people
A- anon, it's lethal!
I can't find the strip's name, I think it was the one with a talking cat