Thread 150794406

is Batman better with or without a sidekick?

>>150794406 (OP)
Without. If any exist they're best used as a device to torture Batman, which is why any sidekick he has should be temporary

>>150794406 (OP)
Without

Robin's purpose was to serve as a relatable self-insert for kids and was vital in revitalizing Batman in his second year. He also serves as his Watson, which is convenient from a writing standpoint.

>>150794406 (OP)
Without. The Robins are fine as back up or as vigilantes in training but running around with Batman just doesn't work for me. Early career Batman when he's at his angriest and still fucking up is my favorite

Dick was the only good sidekick to Bruce. The rest not so much.

>>150794406 (OP)
Based on >>150795039
They question's you need to ask are
Is than a story that wants to attract kids to read it?
and
Is this mainly a detective story or a action story?

>>150794406 (OP)
Back in the day Batman would had been long canceled if Robin wasn't introduced and saved Batman from cancelation.

>>150794406 (OP)
With, batman really just isn't interesting enough to stand alone for awhile.

>>150794406 (OP)
I've liked batman books that are just him, but they're usually very self contained graphic novels and not part of a larger run. Your monthly batman book needs people for him to talk to, the batfamily fills that roll well.

>>150795204
He needs someone to talk to other than Alfred

>>150794406 (OP)
Without Alfred too

>>150794406 (OP)
With - but only if writers are interested on making Batman also Bruce Wayne - and not the whole 'I am just Batman' thing.

Personally I like them as his only connection to his humanity that gradually changes him from vengeful to someone who has to learn to be human to be a father/mentor and reclaim the humanity he lost. But I also do like my grimy broody Batman too.

>>150794406 (OP)
With. Though I'd prefer it to be explicit 'mentor training a student' relationships rather then the weirdness of taking in a 'ward'.

>>150794406 (OP)
With, he needs someone else around to keep him human.
Also I just think Robin is fun.

>>150796139
same. i like the idea that Robin or anyone else essentially becomes a proper new family for him.

Most of my favorite stories don't have a Robin in them, but he can be interesting if used with purpose (Lonely Place of Dying, Death in the Family, Prodigal Son) or just used sparingly. Robin is also fun in throwback camp stories but that's about it.

Robin doesn't really work in modern DC because they've been obsessed with being edgy since the late 90's and Robin is lighthearted fare.

>>150794406 (OP)
>>150798478
Robin should be a girl

>>150794406 (OP)
with desu

If they were actually used as a catalyst for character growth in Batman I could get on board with them much easier. Modern Batman being completely stuck as a character and essentially learning nothing from his past experiences and just being defined by his unchanging nature makes the Robins only exist to highlight that aspect of him, which is a real shame.

>>150794406 (OP)
Without. Mother best Batman stories and movies don’t even have Robin. And for good reason. Robin is dull.

>>150794406 (OP)
With. You have to think of Robin as his Watson. Like yeah, Alfred's fine, but he stays in the manor so he is not that interesting. Robin can actually follow Bruce around.
And Jay should never have died.

Better without, but he's one of the few superheroes that still works well with one.

>>150795165
On opposite day, Tim and Jason were much more interesting Robins.

>>150794406 (OP)
It's weird how DC loves to sell Batman as this edgy brooding loner

....who also happens to have a large stable of teen and 20 something sidekicks for every adventure. and always a brightly colored boy adventurer hanging with him all the time.

The original concept was for a lone vigilante. That's what works best. Unfortunately the licensing department will come along every few years and whine about there being no Robin because the casuals think they're still a team.

>>150794406 (OP)
I liked how TAS handled it. He was mostly solo, but Dick would help out if he was on break from school.

>>150794406 (OP)
Depends on the story but most of the time without. It's like Punisher with Microchip, Micro works in the stories he's needed in but he wouldn't work in the Ennis stuff. I like how the Arkham games broached the subject by having three of the Robins exist in the world but none of them accompanying Batman.

>>150804152
>That's what works best. Unfortunately the licensing department will come along every few years and whine about there being no Robin because the casuals think they're still a team.
Because they do and have been asking to see them together for years after Nolan beget the age of ULTRA SERIOUS GRITTY Batman.

>>150804232
>Nolan beget the age of ULTRA SERIOUS GRITTY Batman.
That wasn't even Nolan's intent. He just made his Batman with "How would he work in a more realistic world?". In the end, his Batman basically use James Bond techs, so he is no more le realistic than classic comic book Batman.

>>150804152
You say that's what worked best, but there's a reason he needed a revamp a year into publication. Robin was introduced literally in Batman's second year of existence, along with a new look. The fact of the matter was Batman was a hit at debut, but his popularity wasn't going to last if they didn't make changes. Without Robin, Batman would have died shortly after his first issue.

>>150794406 (OP)
Batman works best when
>No Robin
>No Alfred
>No Gordon
>No Rogues
>No money
>No gadgets
>No prep time
>No editorial
>No color
>No shading
>No ink
>No drawings
>No dialog

Basically Batman works best if he neeeeever existed. :)

>>150794406 (OP)
It's a holdover from radio serial days. The sidekick was there so there could be an in-universe narrator describing what the hero's doing. Problem is that comics are a visual medium and we can just see what the hero's doing ourselves.

>>150804346
Verisimilitude, motherfucker.

>>150804702
Leave my mother alone.

>>150794406 (OP)
Tier List
Batman and Robin (Bruce and Dick) or Batman by himself is good.
Batman and the never-ending parade of plucky teens looking for a father figure is shit.

>>150794406 (OP)
Honestly varies between stories and writers.

>>150794406 (OP)
Could he catch Robin?

>>150794406 (OP)
no but without jokers.

>>150795148
Early batman who is still learning the rooes is what the graduated robins are for

>>150795039
>He also serves as his Watson, which is convenient from a writing standpoint.
A little goofy; Watson is a normal man who tags along with Holmes because he's curious about his detective skills and because they become friends. Robin TRAINS for this role.

>>150804152
Hes litterally a substandard bat themed shadow ripoff.
That shit eater kane even traced shadoe comic pages.

And ut was SHOTBOMBING because early batman was a fuck awful childish ripoff if shadow. And everyone knew it. So they leaned into the childish aspect.

And yeah ((people)) wealthy homo pesos dud push the fag pedo angle hard. If you look at early WW you knew they were just degens paying the bills with kid friendly stuff that they filled with just terrible stuff.

Without. Setting aside that Robin is just intrinsically lame, no matter how many new identities they shove in there, he's unnecessary. You don't need to have a Watson tagging along, it's comic format, you've got Batman's internal monologue and narration to do that, and having some degree of that is preferable for the noir vibe Batman should have most of the time anyway. You need to have Bats talking out a point with somebody else? You've got Alfred, you've got Gordon, you've got whatever bit character of the week. You don't need some lame tagalong.

>>150794406 (OP)
The two best Batman comics have both of these options. He just needs a good writer.

>>150794406 (OP)
Alfred is the only sidekick he needs