Thread 150805579

What's so fucked up about this character that isn't even worse in characters like Dirty Harry or Wolverine?

>>150805579 (OP)
Good people arent using wolverine logos, so hes allowed to be genocidal, mutant supremacist, mass murdering monster without issue.

>>150805579 (OP)
>Dirty Harry
Leftists hate him too.
Wolverine doesn't have stories centered around real-world issues. Ennis' MAX run makes lefties big mad because Punisher fought criminals that looked like real-world criminals. The plots about pederasts and human traffickers don't help it either.

>>150805655
leftist this leftist that
stop bitching will ya

>>150805579 (OP)
Harry and Logan didnt shoot up funerals.

>>150805655
Leftist here who loves Wolverine, Punisher, and Dirty Harry. Plenty of us do. Wanting free healthcare and education doesn't mean we don't enjoy some dirty cops or vigilantes.

>>150805579 (OP)
To state the obvious and pretend this isn't bait, Punisher is a bit "close to home" in terms of characters. Dirty Harry was a detective, implying years of career choices to get to that point, Wolverine is a mutant with superpowers and claws in his hands. Frank? Frank Castle is a broken man with more issues than a comic store long box that just picked up a weapon to wage a personal war.

>>150806112
>free healthcare and education
They're only "free" for freeloaders who don't pay taxes.

>>150805579 (OP)
I dunno. Why can't Punisher carry his own ongoing series? Probably something to do with being a shitty character.

>>150806270
Is this really the path you want to go down?

>>150806270
>free if you're not a retard
what's the problem

>>150805655
>Punisherfag brings up politics for no reason
typical

>>150806279
Even Captain America can't consistently hold one now adays.

>>150808856
All "issues" surrounding the character stem from real-world politics and writers trying to use the comic as a mouthpiece.

>>150805762
I was just answering OP's question. Sorry if it that hurt your little chuddie sensitivities.

>>150805579 (OP)
I couldn't tell you. It can't be because he's one of the only heroes who kills because there's a ton that do. People have always complained about Dirty Harry or Death Wish also, critics called those movies fascist when they were released. I think the fact Frank is a character in American comics (where people like Mark Waid are still fighting for every hero to be a paragon of virtue) doesn't help. Ennis has even said that Punisher has more in common with the heroes in British comic strips like Battle and Action than most superheroes stateside. I think part of it is the skull stuff, part of it is overcorrection from people who resent how "edgy" comics got in the 80s through the 00s.

>>150805579 (OP)
The American public at large is full of idiots who think Frank is meant to be emulated as opposed to an ongoing tragedy and cautionary tale.

There have been superheroes running around for like 15 years in universe already. If you are so weak that a guy with PTSD and a gun can harm you, you don't deserve to live to begin with.

>>150809043
I am OP and a liberal, this idea that Punisher is in some way a conservative character is a fabrication of the last 10 years of Chris Kyle wannabe cuckservatism

>>150805579 (OP)
He’s classic men’s adventure character in an era of unrelenting faggotry

rofl

>>150805579 (OP)
People try to compare The Punisher to The Shadow and other hero pulps as a "gotcha" for why his sort of character (gun-toting vigilante) exists within the hero genre, but his archetype didn't really come into existence until Mack Bolan and the Doctor Who radio show (and arguably, long before that).

Liberals don't like The Punisher for the same reason they're uncomfortable with Mack Bolan and Dirty Harry. It's not because they're particularly gun-toting vigilantes who kill criminals, it's because of the framing and overall tone being not only very grounded in comparison to more fantastical counterparts, but in how this sort of archetype wants to double-dip. And because these sorts of characters belong to long-running episodic storytelling that sell themselves off of being power fantasies, shit gets messy. Pic related.

>>150809085
the problem I have with the "frank shouldn't be emulated" crowd is how that sort of sentiment comes across as naive/blind when you remember that the Punisher is still sold as a power fantasy in the same breath as it being a cautionary tale

the only way for people to not want to emulate Frank is to make Punisher comics deliberately ordinary/domestic and mundane, or have Frank constantly eat shit for trying to live life like a comic book gunslinger adventure

>frank gets permanent hearing damage
>frank loses strength in his joints
>the bad guys get away from Frank thanks to having deeper connections than he previously thought
>frank fails because he forgot something important, or because something completely unexpected gets in the way, or just from an obstacle he can't shoot at (uh oh, traffic)
>frank gets stuck in jail for weeks
>frank gets REALLY sick and he's bedridden
>frank can't afford his more destructive guns anymore or gets his shit confiscated
>frank gets steamrolled by the puppet masters behind the gangs (the government)

>>150805579 (OP)
Frank is a mentally broken man who does illegal shit to kill criminals and is a wanted criminal in universe. Logan is usually backed by the government for his actions and admits he does have a problem. He hates killing, but often gives into his berserker rage and sees it as a necessary evil.

>>150810942
why does that matter?
James Bond is a power fantasy. He's also an alcoholic womanizing murderer

>>150810057
>this idea that Punisher is in some way a conservative character
I never claimed any of these characters were conservative. If you can't understand that the stories told with them COULD resonate with people that hold right-wing views, then you are mentally retarded and should be working a field instead of trying to understand why The Punisher is disliked by certain people, or why certain people have an axe to grind against the character, or why a writer would take the character and 'ruin' him in the eyes of a certain part of the audience.

>>150811136
Because James Bond is power fantasy, but the story doesn't try to ground itself too much or get tangled up in realism. That's where the recent films fucked up and lost their sense of adventure and fun.

Imagine if ALL capeshit was like Watchmen and the film adaptation bundled together in a single package. You cannot go "cool robot" and also go "the cool robot is bad". It's either one or the other. Doing both is always a recipe for disaster.

>>150805655
>Ennis' MAX run makes lefties big mad

>>150805655
That's weird, I'm a leftist and I fucking adore Ennis' Max run.

>>150810942
Why do cops on the wear punisher logos on their official police uniforms and squad cars and why should the public be okay with such losers playing their power fantasies on the job when that directly implies they want to murder people instead of following the law?

Nobody is arguing you can’t like a fictional character. People take issue with cops wanting to larp as Punisher on the job so bad they have to wear his iconography on their work clothes and how that has very troubling implications. Especially when cops in the country have a massive culture of using excessive force and killing people without good reason, as we can see by the endless lawsuits that cost taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars every year.

But you don’t actually care about anything of this. You just want to play culture wars.

>>150810942
>>the bad guys get away from Frank thanks to having deeper connections than he previously thought
>>frank fails because he forgot something important, or because something completely unexpected gets in the way, or just from an obstacle he can't shoot at (uh oh, traffic)
>>frank gets stuck in jail for weeks
>>frank gets REALLY sick and he's bedridden
>>frank can't afford his more destructive guns anymore or gets his shit confiscated
These at least have all happened multiple times.
So many people talk out of their ass about this character and just declare that things have never happened without even a cursory glance at the hundreds of issues he's had.

>>150812307
>Especially when cops in the country have a massive culture of using excessive force and killing people without good reason, as we can see by the endless lawsuits that cost taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars every year.
Bodycams have proven this narrative to be mostly false.

>>150812307
>Especially when cops in the country have a massive culture of using excessive force and killing people without good reason
no they don't, they have a culture of just being general retards and you can't solve that unless you're willing to pay officers more so you can get better candidates. No smart person is risking getting shanked by a feral fent golem every day they go into work for fifty grand a year

>>150805579 (OP)
I've never met a Punisher fan who also wasn't a giant gibbering retard and bootlicker. The character just inherently attracts dumbasses who have fantasies of mowing down everyone who's ever wronged them in real or perceived ways but will never actually do it unless they're psychotic enough to join the military or become cops.

>>150812958
You haven't met enough of them then. I guarantee most of the fans of the Ennis stuff are not right of center

>>150812958
Youve never met anyone lil nonny stroking his clitty in his moms basement while posting on leftypol

>>150812549
Punisher might be the most misunderstood and misrepresented character in all of comics

>>150808856
People who are attracted to incredibly violent media tend to be simpletons. I don't mean like standard action stuff but stuff based around being as violent as possible in terms of gore, people getting shot or whatever. Punisherfags, slasherfags, MKfags, Spawnfags and the like are all the same mongoloid.

>>150812307
>Why do cops on the wear punisher logos on their official police uniforms and squad cars and why should the public be okay with such losers playing their power fantasies on the job

holy ESL seethe!

I have the idea that the Punisher is a left leaning guy at heart (pro-inclusion, pro-minorities) that use right leaning means to reach his goals.
So somebody's exploiting non-citizen illegals, slavery-like, with a corrupt politician/cop turning a blind eye. Castle's cool with illegal workers doing the tuff jobs (a left leaning way of thinking)
His solution: not relying on the government like a regular leftie, but using lethal force against anyone involved to protect the right of everybody to pursue the American Dream. Not different to the natural law of the Wild West that the 2nd amendment people idolise.

Whats going on, why is /co/ so unbearably reddit political seething these last few weeks?

>>150813034
Not really. Alan Moore had positive things to say about Crossed and he's incredibly intelligent

>>150813051
The character is inherently libertarian, like all American hero characters who walk the same path as the gunslinger vigilante born from westerns. Liberals are opposed to characters like him because of what you just said: he doesn't depend on the state, but him merely existing and doing what he does puts the status quo and privileges of liberals at stake because they depend on the government to live such sheltered lives in the first place. Liberals may be left-wing in terms of social policies, but they're economically right-wing and will always side with the government to preserve their way of life.

>>150812549
I'm quite aware that Frank being inconvenienced and rendered helpless is something that occurs in the comics, I'm just saying that that should be the norm for his adventures rather than the exception (if the liberals REALLY wanted to make the character inaccessible towards the right-wing crowd). Take the power away from the Punisher, make the fantasy boring, etc.

>>150812661
The ironic thing about cops is that unless it's a violent area, most cops will do nothing but sit around and file paperwork for their entire career. That's why so many of them gain weight. And the reason why they don't just hire cops with higher IQ/EQ is because those cops mostly stick to small towns or join the military/PMC, whereas the dumb ones are genuinely too retarded for serious stuff, so they either get fed to the figurative blender or end up being a local small town bully because of who they're friends with.

>>150811581
there's no realism in frank's world.

>>150812169
I've seen people use Barracuda as an example of a bad stereotype, and also complain about the fact Punisher kills gangstas and shit. Just because you're a leftist and you have your head screwed on right doesn't change the fact that most people are mentally retarded.

>>150812215
Yeah, but they're not leftists like you. They shit their pants in anger because Barracuda looks and talks like a working class black dude.

>>150805579 (OP)
Punisher's biggest problem is that he makes no mistakes. There's literal no downsides to him. If he killed a few innocents, or mild crimes (jaywalking, smoking a blunt etc) then I could see why he would be a problem. Vigilante was a better character overall.

>>150813688
After the first dead kid by Punishers hands, every Punisher story would be about that dead kid. No fucking thank you.

>>150805579 (OP)
Can't explain it more deeply than his logo being a lot more well-known than whatever can be associated with Dirty Harry or Wolverine because it's popular with certain types of people that fetishize violence. If you start seeing more Wolverine mask stickers popping up around areas with high incidents of stabbing, you can bet that Marvel will be a bit more reluctant in making him as much of a stab happy murder midget that he usually is, but as it stands, it's not happening, so he gets a lot more leeway in being accepted as a mass stabbing murder midget than the character whose logo is associated with mass shooters.

>>150813559
>Well every other leftist must hate it because I saw random people say something negative about it online

OK bro

>>150806279
>Probably something to do with being a shitty character.
More that marvel won't hire any combat vets or anyone right of Che guevera. Look at what happened to Edmunds. Fired for doing punisher art for police charities. Of current big 2 people, who even owns guns?

>>150812307
>Nobody is arguing you can’t like a fictional character.
You have a reasonable enough point to work with, but this part is complete retardation.

>>150812982
Hmmm. I'm not sure about that, but they're absolutely right of center compared to other comic fandoms.

>>150805579 (OP)
he's liked by the police. leftists hate police, so they hate frank. they also took over marvel, so they get to torture him.
honestly they should stop hiring people who don't love the characters.

>>150814056
>Fired for doing punisher art for police charities.
The character should be kept far the fuck away from cops, charities or otherwise.
>Of current big 2 people, who even owns guns?
What does it matter? You can own guns and still be a shitty writer, or you can own guns and, surprise, still be left leaning, because they typically don't make it central to their identity.
>>150814135
>he's liked by the police
Which is more telling on the cops that say they like a character that is basically wish fulfillment for executing extrajudicial violence at their discretion. Cops should be held to a higher standard to not wanting to act like a fucking psychopath.
>leftists hate police
So do right-wingers, but for different reasons, what's your point?
>they also took over marvel
Shitty people in general took over Marvel and made things worse. Generally speaking, Marvel produced more left-leaning work longer than you've been alive.

>>150813928
>Punisher vs Wolverine
First:
Tell me how much damage can you do with a knife on each hand. Now tell me what can you do with an automatic rifle.
Second:
Define Wolverine by his political stances, now do the same with the Punisher. Which was easier?
The Punisher is more relatable, since you had a better chance at being a armored vested bullet fueled killing machine than being a god-bodied acrobatic mutant.
Plus, Logan has an introverted personality with a personal drama at his core. Castle has very extroverted ways to express his core criticism at the system.
And Dirty Harry is a boomer franchise whose last entry is almost half a century old, while The Punisher character even as being older than Harry is fresh and renewed constantly in pop culture.

>>150814318
There's clearly an audience for the character, and there's certain shit they like about him.

Why the fuck should your asinine opinions about the cops or the character make any difference here? You're acting like a christfag soccer mom who's seen sideboob in a liefield comic.

>>150814318
lmao leftist seething

>>150814400
>Well there is an audience to the character so fuck you!

What an amazing addition to the conversations

>>150805579 (OP)
He kills certain demographics that are more prone to crime

>>150814370
>Tell me how much damage can you do with a knife on each hand. Now tell me what can you do with an automatic rifle.
A mass stabber typically can't get back up after getting ventilated with a gun or have a bulletproof skeleton. At which point, you'd better hope someone has enough ammunition to keep them down or they're going to be a persistent problem that goes well beyond the mass shooter that can be gunned down permanently.
>Define Wolverine by his political stances, now do the same with the Punisher. Which was easier?
Neither, because neither have definite political stances aside from their love of killing, one likes doing it up close, one likes doing it from afar.
>The Punisher is more relatable, since you had a better chance at being a armored vested bullet fueled killing machine than being a god-bodied acrobatic mutant.
My point was that knife-related deaths and people coopting Wolverine's imagery would make Marvel balk the same way that it's affecting Punisher.
>>150814400
>Why the fuck should your asinine opinions about the cops or the character make any difference here?
Because, like it or not, it reflects on the company the character is from. It's not just me, you idiot, I couldn't care less how they go forward with it at this point, but it's the company feeling like it has to save face to not be associated with violent retards.
>>150814542
Strive for better bait.

>>150814614
not bait
i wish police shot thieves and drug dealers in the streets

All punisher fans seem to know to do these days is whine. You could be talking about the two new comics out right now but instead you’re just crying over stupid shit

>>150806279
Cope

>>150806180
>Frank Castle is a broken man with more issues than a comic store long box that just picked up a weapon to wage a personal war.
This only applies to why he actually does it though not how he operates. Frank is calculated and professional about what he does and hardly comes off unhinged

>>150806279
>shitty character
said no one ever.

>>150806279
>over 300 issues
>can't hold a title
ok kiddo

>>150814614
>I couldn't care less how they go forward with it at this point, but it's the company feeling like it has to save face to not be associated with violent retards.
Oh the poor company. I don't buy your bullshit for a second when you say you don't care. You hate the character. You hate the people who like the character. A bunch of trannies agree with you. But so fucking what? The big 2 will have cops, and spies, and solders and vigilanties who work both in and out of the law.

The biggest movie a week or two ago is about antifa shooting up ICE. It's fiction. Fucking deal with it, or go to leftypol or pol to scream about cops.

>>150806279
He has. He has more good runs Daredevil and Spider-Man.

>>150805579 (OP)
Blame cops