Thread 150819108

Realistically, how long until the indie bubble pops?

what bubble

>>150819108 (OP)
I don't see how it is a bubble.

>>150819108 (OP)
What is more likely to happen is that they are bought out by some bigger studio. Who then proceeds to gut the place, fire everyone and then run the two or three successful shows into the ground.

What bubble?
There's only like 5 indie shows and like 3 pilots that are even relevant, and half of them are made by the same studio.

When western cartoons stop sucking.
So, realistically never.

>>150819108 (OP)
When the AI bubble pops and the economy crashes again, indie will be the world’s only comfort and explode in value

It's not really a bubble because they have no stonks for people to invest in. Plus there's an actual product, not just hype with no substance.

Right now it looks like indie animators are getting involved with them either directly or indirectly since they are offering a business model that actually gets their shows made without taking the rights from the creator. How long that can stay in business depends on how long people have money to buy merch.

I find it interesting that SmallBu is doing animation work for Lackadaisy. With Glitch both producing and presenting 2D shows, maybe SmallBu will be able to make something original by being backed by Glitch as well one day. Though I really hope new episodes of Baman Piderman are still coming this year.

>>150819146
This. They have to aggressively remain independent and refuse to sell out, because the moment they do they will get bought up by Disney/WB/whoever, and within a matter of months everything that made them good will be destroyed. They won't get bought up to make money for the parent company, they will get bought up to *reduce competition*. Destroying them is the point.

>>150819146
Who would buy them?

Disney will eventually buy them. The prospect of having a stable studio and the farther reach is too enticing to turn down. Glitch can never get their films in a theater. Disney can do that. Glitch can never reach a worldwide audience. Disney can do that. Glitch can't juggle too many shows at once. Disney can do that. You need these big corporations to do the heavy lifting so you can focus on making more content

>>150819636

Likely Adult Swim like they did with Rooster Teeth

>>150820073
Glitch is way bigger than Adult Swim at this point

>>150819108 (OP)
At least 10 years because Glicth has a niche in being an Australian animation studio with a global presence.

>>150819108 (OP)
The independent creator bubble is done. The indie scene and hiw easy it us to create medua us just starting.
Content is over now.
Now its about connections and substance.

>>150819108 (OP)
a few years after they suffer bankruptcy due to a lack of children and underage fags who consume their shitty animations

>>150819108 (OP)
>totally infested with industry faggots
>spammed threads from industry shills
This SHIT isn't indie. Kill yourselves troons.

>>150819108 (OP)
Pretty sure its more like video games in 1983

>>150819536
this big studios are so shit at this point they are the biggest barrier to making shit at this point
biggest problem for indies is entertainment is hard to get a return off of without having enough girth to wait out long return cycles. entertainment has lost the cred to really charge up front anymore for entirely legit reasons too and enough of a shows popularity is based on cultural impact that gating tends to inhibit a shows growth. streaming services would do much better if they just charged each other publisher credits and moved to more infrastructure and publishing concerns than the turf war shit doing now.
and thats all before jews using mafia tactics to turn entertainment into propaganda

>>150819636
Amazon is the most likely candidate. They still want more original content.

>>150820280
>this shit isn't indie
What corporation controls Glitch?

>>150819108 (OP)
More like the general concept of comedies that end up beign too dramatic for their own good.
People will get tired of that shit at some point.

>>150820524
Nta. A plumbing company can be incorporated. Its not "le corporation" thats evil, its the people who have no artistic or storytelling abilities wanting to head these corperations and squeeze as much profit from a tax-subsidied-writeoff-loophole-money-laundering productions at the expense of "le craft" or long term sustainability. Glitch appears to be investing in unique productions instead of skimming all the budget for themselves so this is how they are smoking everyone else

>>150819108 (OP)
One-to-two years until they go public or get acquired by a holding company, then they become highly corporate while going "no we're still indie, guys!"

It's like a single studio and 3 independent dudes, what fucking bubble OP

5-10 years. The bubble is still getting bigger right now. It can't pop until it's after the peak.

>>150819108 (OP)
I actually do wonder when something stops being indie when they can mass produce merch and can make deals with mega corporations

>>150821096
I consider it indie if it's done without lengthy purchase and in house development cycle at a major studio.

>>150819108 (OP)
I won't really think it's a bubble unless they start buying up lots of other youtube pilots, as if they wantot be the main youtube pilot studio.

>>150821096
If you have no parent company or you're not a parent company yourself then you're indie.

>>150821096
"Indie" as a term has been abused, distorted, and redefined so many times over the past decade that it's almost fucking meaningless at this point.
You'll have media that is blatantly not-indie, that has colossal budgets, huge marketing, supported by other companies (and even investors), and even having shareholders, and it will be labelled as indie because... reasons?
It just means "thing I like" at this point in time.

>>150819108 (OP)
Never

>>150819108 (OP)
its not a bubble at least not right now there is real desperate demand for it

Their first or second bad series will kill them. They've been lucky so far, but these guys used to make some shit Mario machinima or something, so I can see them greenlighting some utter dogshit in the future.

>>150821766
they cant miss as long as they keep scouring tumblr and reddit for ideas, its easy to give people what they want

>>150821781
Yeah, true. It's either that or the idea tap runs dry eventually.

>>150819751
>Glitch can never get their films in a theater.
No name people get their film festival arthouse shit picked up for theater runs all the time, some even for bigger releases. It isn't some arcane thing only hollywood elites can do man you literally just talk to business people at the designated places after you've actually made something.

Glitch is in a position where if they made a feature they could get a theatrical run pretty easily. Even if they didn't sell out to one big production company they could just do multifinancing with multiple smaller ones like they do in europe.

>>150821766
Isn't there already a dud in their lineup? I never see anyone talking about the one with poop/puke color palette.

>>150819108 (OP)
Really what is stopping Disney from copying GLITCH’s style if they really wanted to?
>Make a small affiliate studio.
>Hire popular edgy tumblr artists off the internet.
>pay them to make edgeslop for tweens and manchildren.
>???
>success

>>150819108 (OP)
Glitch isn’t indie

>>150822122
The 50-60 something boomers in charge that will never assume this is a viable strategy and will only focus on old ideas like trying to maintain a cable channel instead because that is what they know.

>>150822163
Which corporation controls them?

>>150821944
yeah, gaslight district. i put the blame on the lack of discussion based on it just not being a good pilot. i like to imagine that the animation could easily carry the rest of the show even if the writing flops.

>corpo bad

>indie bad

>popular bad

>niche bad

It sounds like a lot of you just hate animation and always have. Like you're just here out of spite and this is your nearest target.

>>150821944
>>150822302
It still performed better than Danna's new show and it has garnered a fan base.

>>150821889

That takes up so much money and the return on investment is way too small. You NEED the company to at least have distribution rights to get it in major theaters for maximum profit. Even minor studios do this

Man I wish an indie studio based on boy focused action shows existed.
Like man of action back in the day.

>>150822563
More of a comedy but isn't that what Space King is?

>>150819751
>Glitch can never reach a worldwide audience

Huh? Yes they can and it's one of the greatest strengths of their model that absolutely mogs the big studios. Anyone with from anywhere in the world can watch the youtube uploads of their shows, and episodes of said shows are uploaded with alternate audio-tracks of dubs in every major language day 1, and official merch from their store can be ordered and shipped to just about everywhere. There's no doubt this is one of the biggest reasons behind the huge viewcounts for their shows and their overall success, and you can see the international reach reflected in the official pop-up TADC store and cafe in Japan as well as the official licenced manga.

Realistically when will the AI bubble pop?

>>150822602
Already in the first few phases

>>150822596
sure, Kevin

Anyone else hate that if a show doesn't do TADC numbers it is a "flop" to the indie community? This is a constant talking point and it is so shit.

>>150822661
Rebut anything in my post. Anything at all.

>>150822602
Well... if the trade war becomes a real trade war it'll pop sooner than later.
If there was no trade war then it could go on for a few more years because companies are constantly loaning each other money in this blatantly illegal but totally-not-illegal-just-trust-me-bro way. We'd see stonks go BEYOND MARS before they come crashing down because everyone is determined to keep propping up the dollar. If something could actually replace the dollar then the whole thing would collapse.
Even if they do eventually get some kind of AI to the market (not language models), it will be after the bubble bursts just like with the dot com bubble.

If you compare the price of stocks with the price of gold, then the bubble is only just getting started.
It's a combination of new tech bubble, inflation catching up from all the bailouts, the dollar losing its buying power, and the stock market refocusing on people who are already ultra wealthy who can throw investor/startup money around like they're at the strip club.
And private equity tipping shadow banking over the edge.

Whatever domino falls first will cause the chain reaction of debts being called and no one actually having the money to cover it.

>>150822596

How many internet darlings have we seen mount to nothing in the long run because they don't have the resources to keep it going? Glitch isn't the first animation studio, this shit takes money and a lot of money at that. Any misstep and all this shit goes up in flames. Corporations can take that hit

>>150821944
>>150822302
Funny cuz no one ever talks about sunset paradise, their second semi-original ip, that takes a character of the machinima mario show, and gives her a spinoff.
Here a link; https://youtu.be/TSq8zPvUkk8?si=GGi7_6n9BqwMgvFC

Did people dislike Gaslight District? I get complaints about pacing, but outside of that it was still a solid pilot and fits into some of the branding of Glitch pretty well.

Do they get money from the views? Pretty sure its all from merch. If they release a show that neither gets views or push sales, they'll drop it and move on. The real problem is when show gets popular but nobody buys anything. Like how they have to keep telling KoG fans to buy shit, the shows not greenlit yet.

>>150822595
Nah, thats all comedy. There isnt really any focus on fights.

>>150822974
i didn't dislike the pilot, though i didn't think it was that great either. i'd say it's less about pacing issues and more that i have no idea where this story is supposed to be going. i absolutely love the art and animation style though. there's not enough gloomy cartoons and those reduced keyframes really do wonders.

>>150822974
co hates everything. but one major nitpick i had with it was the world. making the background rotlings all looking the same was an odd choice. compare it to hazbin hotel where even the background characters look like they could be main characters

>>150822602
It already has.
No one can make money because of ut. And the industries championing it have devalued indirectly their own intellectual property to the point that its worthless.

>>150822784
Bezos said its all bullshit a week ago

>>150819146
>indie bubble
>What is more likely to happen is that they are bought out by some bigger studio
You know that "indie" does not specifically mean "Glitch", right?

In any event, while anything is possible, I don't see it happening in the near future. Glitch is growing their empire just fine on their own. If they want a quick dumptruck of cash then maybe they'll sell, but from everything they've publicly spoken about, it seems that they are largely driven by a desire to take the industry in a better direction.

They've been hiring people who have been burned by the mainstream industry (Dana Terrace, Olan Rogers, Gene Goldstein, etc) almost as a way to both leverage talent but also give a middle finger to the people who cast away their talent as if they were disposable. It seems like they're more keen on building something than selling out. If they were, there has likely been ample opportunity since TADC blew up.

>>150822974
Mel need to get her fresh human puss to use, if you know what I mean

>>150819108 (OP)
As soon as mainstream gives them everything they could ever want and takes up all of their time doing so

>>150823150
And Bezos can ride his penis rocket to the moon.
"When the dust settles" is a rich boy way to say "even if the market crashes and the world is plunged into ULTRA DEPRESSION I, personally, will be fine and continue to profit off of it."

We're nowhere near the peak of this stupidity yet, not unless the trade war prematurely crashes all the markets. If there's no trade war then this shit could go on to maybe 2030, but there are too many moving parts for me to believe my own guess.
Cracks are already showing everywhere.

>>150822602
The AI bubble hasn't even formed yet. People aren't making money on it. Tech companies are trying their hardest to infiltrate every sector with their bullshit so it SEEMS like it's everywhere, but they are running at a loss trying to get the public hooked on it. At some point they're going to need to start actually charging enough to bank on it and then the businesses that fired their staff in favor of cheaper/faster AI are going to be fucked.
People always seem to forget that most of these AI tools won't be free or impossibly cheap forever. Tech companies always do the same thing. Run at a loss to capture the bulk of the market and push competitors out. Once you have control of the market, you jack the prices and start slashing features. The public ends up paying more in the long run for a shittier service.

>>150819751
>Glitch can never get their films in a theater.
5 years ago, you wouldn't have thought Glitch would be able to get their shows on Netflix and Amazon WHILE continuing to release them for free on Youtube AND retaining full creative control and ownership.
At this point, it would be really fucking stupid to bet on Glitch "never [getting] their films in a theater". I think the only reason that wouldn't happen is if they decided they didn't want to.

>>150822563
This seems pretty action heavy and it's supposedly coming out this year sometime.
https://youtu.be/wIiStrbPHp0

>>150822694
>it is a "flop" to the indie community?
It's not. You're basing that idea on what autistic teenage retards on /co/ say.

>>150822850
I agree to a certain extent, though "any misstep and all this shit goes up in flames" is an exaggeration when they have the buffer afforded by the insane amount of money TADC is and will continue to rake in for the forseeable future.

It seems like right now Glitch's approach is using lots of that TADC money to expand their brand by funding shows that they're genuinley enthusiastic about with the luxury of not having to worry quite so much about if any specific one of them has the potential to be a massive hit. If just one of the new lineup comes close to TADC levels of success then that should be enough to keep Glitch going for the forseeable future, even after TADC ends and its profits begin to taper off in a year or two. Gaslight District and Lackadaisy probably won't be that for them, but Knights of Guinevere has potential. It's a gamble, but that's why they're hedging their bets.

And the worldwide distribution side of things is absolutely not an issue though - Disney/WB/Viacom/etc. need to be learning from Glitch in that regard..

>>150822784
It's doubtful it will actually happen, but the 100% tariffs on Chinese goods that has been threatened would kill the AI industry in the US. Almost no raw materials actually come from the US. Even if we started producing chips domestically (which would take *several* decades to set up the infrastructure for as well as training), we'd still be screwed because we'd have to import raw materials that now cost twice as much, plus we'd have to pay and compensate (via benefits) US workers far more than a Chinese factory worker.
FAFO

>>150823411
This. Though I will argue they are greenlighting too many shows that don't have mass appeal. The newer shows are much more niche and creepy, which is fine, but they don't have the kind of thing kids and normies love in Digital Circus. For every 2 darker experiments they should try greenlighting 1 brighter, comedic thing.

>>150823007
They technically do get some amount of money from views, but it's negligible. If they lost 100% of their youtube money tomorrow, it wouldn't matter in the slightest. Merch pays almost all of their costs.

>Like how they have to keep telling KoG fans to buy shit
They do that with every single one of their shows. Your phrasing makes it seem like they are forced to do that because the show is failing, but the push to buy merch happened with Murder Drones, TADC, and Gaslight District as well. If you make you money from merch sales, it's pretty stupid not to push for people to buy merch.

>>150823246
Anon. AI will render nearly all of the intelkectual capital meaningless and all nations will inevitable delve into truly alternative free energy snd I dont mean wind or solar.

The bubble exists because they believe it matters. But its just rich retards all slap fighting blindly. Its a confidence game and con all rolled into one.

>>150822974
The main critique (aside from autists who thought it was "ugly) was that they crammed a lot of info into the pilot. In those regards, I agree - there was a lot going on. I think that has a lot to do with lack of experience. Nick hasn't really done a show like this before - most of his previous work seems to be more atmospheric. Time while writing a script feels very different from time when actually watching as a viewer. When you see a blank page, it can feel like you need to fill it up with a bunch of stuff. If you study scripts, you'll notice that not a whole lot of dialog actually happens on each page and they tend to leave a lot of room for action, music, and visual cues to take over. GD felt super dense because A LOT of info was dumped on the viewer in quick succession, but I think that's something that can be evened out for future episodes. Hopefully the lesson was learned by the team while watching the finished episode (and reading some commentary).

>>150823288
Buddy.
A bubble is just mindless retarded speculation designed to sucher mo ey out if retards.

But..but no one am makin' any munney.
Bitch WE aren't supposed to make money. Its a scam we're supposed to believe will maje money and create belief and power for this worthless destructive bullshit.

>>150823632
>Time while writing a script feels very different from time when actually watching as a viewer.
Agreed. I have done some script writing and test animations for my own projects and I definitely feel the disconnect from reading vs actually watching. I think it just a skill that one needs to learn through trial and error.

>>150823246
>the trade war prematurely crashes all the markets
The most retarded part of this is that it was started for no fucking reason whatsoever. A couple of retards got bored and decided to stir things up. People got used to relative comfort and stability so idiots think that making radical changes like this can't turn out poorly.

>>150822602
Can someone explain to a brainlet how the AI bubble popping will affect middle class guys like me? I don't really know what to make of a scam where it's ultra-billionaires that are throwing all their money into the furnace rather something that's targeting the average person

>>150823724
Its one part gahe one part guess. They all want to be part of something big that will build more money snd mire influence.
Yhey really don't know if it will work or not.

Also its heavily subsidized by the kikes and merislave government so that means serious shit is going down.
Probably an attempt to atomize the populace completely and the "internet of things"".

Amyway its already over. The bubble has popped no big money is moving around unless its between the dopes and the middke class will see their white collar jobs threatened and more flawed ai implementation where humans would work.

>>150823493
>they are greenlighting too many shows that don't have mass appeal.
isn't that the entire problem with mainstream animation? They try to cast the widest net and it results in unremarkable bullshit?

>For every 2 darker experiments they should try greenlighting 1 brighter, comedic thing
How have they not done that? TADC was a bright comedic thing. Then they have GD and KoG. Lackadaisy isn't one of their productions - it's "presented by". You'll only know if they broke your pattern if the next thing isn't "brighter" or "comedic".

That said, I disagree. I think finding talented people and letting them do their thing is the way to go forward. Nobody would have seen TADC being as huge as it became. Trying to replicate that would fall into the same pitfalls as mainstream animation. I think they should just keep finding talented people, let them make the thing they want, and see what hits. It worked for What A Cartoon, Cartoon Cartoon, and Nicktoons. All of those went to shit as soon as the CEOs started trying to replicate success when that was never what created the initial success to begin with.

>>150822974
Gaslight District doesn't get enough talk because there's no one in the pilot you can ship with
>"But why not just ship Mel with one of the three other named char-"
Not conventionally attractive design wise save for the big guy with silverware in his head and he's better off with solo lewds imo. Mel is the only other character worth beating it too
Shipping is a shows lifeline if they want to stay relevant and Murder Drones and TADC both thrive from shipping discussion

>>150819636
They'll stay Australian because that's how Japanese and Korean studios survive. Notice that WB and Disney don't own those studios?

Not to mention that going to America is more trouble than it is, right now.

NOOOOO DONT POP BUBBLE

>>150823912
It's kinda sad because GD's world is so interesting that I do want to learn more about it, but you're right, shipping discussion is how you get by in the modern discourse.

>>150823724
>Can someone explain to a brainlet how the AI bubble popping will affect middle class guys like me?
Money that could go to services that would benefit people like you are now going to subsidize retarded tech. Your taxes are helping to prop up companies run by people who, themselves, don't pay taxes.

But aside from that, AI is devaluing the workforce. People are getting fired and replaced with AI that is doing a shittier version of their job because companies are getting the tech for free or cheap. At some point, the AI companies are going to need to squeeze and will start charging a huge amount for their services. Companies will fold which will result in more people being laid off. For the companies that remain, the value of the work that will need to be done has now been dropped a peg because companies are used to not having to pay for that service, so even IF those jobs come back, people are likely going to be taking a pay cut to do the same thing they used to do for more money.

>>150823912
>Mel is the only other character worth beating it to
>Shipping is a shows lifeline
coomer projection

>>150823724
Investment funds normally invest money from the middle class into ventures and pre-existing businesses.
AI investing now covers all spectrums of the economy and all investing groups. They lose their money, it takes them down and all your money too.

>>150819751
>they cannot do that. disney can.
Disney started as an indie studio before moving to movies, retarded tripfag
ww2 killed their momentum. they had to sell their asses to the us government (propaganda cartoons) to survive, and after that they still had to gamble with their movies
glitch just needs to build up prestige

>>150823838
It's as much as a problem with the creatives as are the execs imo. I'm not saying to "replicate" the same show a hundred times but you also can't just make "Hot Topic: the Animated Series" over and over again either and expect a huge profit. You already saw the consequences of that in mainstream shit when they all just made Steven Universe-lite shows that all bombed and took Cartoon Network with it. Animation is a business, and you have to make something "normal or safe" here and there to get money. Gaslight District certainly isn't that. That's just business. There's the art side of it too, which I fully support as an animator myself. There definitely should be risks taken on new things, but you can't just let artists go crazy either because it leads to an unmarketable product. It's a balancing game, growing pains.

>>150821944
>>150822906
Meta Runner and Sunset Paradise required some knowledge of SMG4 jokes and references. Thankfully, both of those shows were forgotten when Murder Drones got popular.

>>150822302
>>150822473
Gaslight District is way more style than substance. There's no way it will have the wide-reach of TADC when it looks like TMNT Mutant Mayhem.

>>150824015
>Gaslight District is way more style than substance.
I think it has substance, the problem is that each individual piece of substance came way too quickly for you to chew on it before moving onto the next plot point.

>>150819108 (OP)
Digital Circus is trash, the only "jokes" it has are literally meme references, "haha look we have a character a gun so funny LOL, none of the jokes are fucking original so it fails as a comedy. The designs are also shit; they look like they were designed by a 14-year-old Tumblrcuck. They also unnecessarily pander to their Xitter crowd with jokes like "Maid Jax XD" and Gangles whole character, fuck her, she’s the worst character. The fanbase is also pure cancer, literally the most unfunny zoomer memers I’ve ever seen.

There are some positives like how the animation is quite fluid and expressive, but that’s pretty much it.

>>150822602
Bring Thiel and Musk up on criminal charges? No, not as long as 'Murica keeps protecting them.

>>150824053
Based mexichad

>>150824010
>you have to make something "normal or safe" here and there to get money
In what world is TADC normal or safe? You view it that way because it happened to blow up and now you think that's part of the formula, but TADC is essentially a riff on Popee the Performer which was a cult show that had a dedicate but small following.

>>150824052
you forgot to mention how they abandoned a potentially interesting commentary on the human condition and artificial intelligence, but decided to make it a shipping show where the characters just complain about existing. really pushing the medium.

>>150819108 (OP)
Around March of next year when the last episode of TADC comes out. Murder Drones is over with and they're just dragging its corpse around to make it look like they've got some kind of company identity outside of TADC. Gaslight will not resonate with most general audiences. Knights of Guinevere will only be popular with bluesky trannies and will rapidly become the worst fandom orbiting Glitch.

Once TADC is done, it's all downhill from here.

>>150824146
It's almost impossible they won't milk tadc

>>150824107
>In what world is TADC normal or safe?

Bright colors, funny "haha clown lady get hurt" comedy, every character can be sympathised with, Pomni is the anchor keeping everybody positive and sane.

>>150824052
>Digital Circus is trash.

Nobody asked, jeffyfag.

>>150824015
>There's no way it will have the wide-reach of TADC when it looks like TMNT Mutant Mayhem.
TADC set records. It's like thinking that running a mile in 5 minutes is slow because the world record is currently 3:43.13.
I'd rather Glitch just focus on continuing to put out good shows that allow creators to do what they want to do instead of starting to impose their will in an effort to recreate the success of TADC. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't, but Murder Drones was already self sustaining and that show was FAAAAAAR less successful than TADC. They don't need to do TADC numbers to keep going. They need to do Murder Drones numbers which, so far, both GD and KoG have outperformed.

>>150823993
Shipping is what keeps a show in discussion in between droughts of no new content
That's why half of Steven Universes fanart is just shipping and what helps keep TADCs fandom alive during the months when there's no new episode to talk about

>>150824179
>Bright colors
autist detected.
Maybe after you get done with TADC, you can revisit Thomas the Tank Engine?

>>150824179
I've yet to read a convincing argument as to why the show is interesting or good.

>>150824166
With the way things are going, I would not be surprised if they begged Goose to rewrite the ending to leave it open for another season.

There is a part of me that wishes Industrycuck was still around just so he could seethe about Glitch.

>>150824211
and you won't get one. It's autist bait. You'll be trying to get an explanation out of literal retar...er...I mean neuro-divergent individuals.

>>150824211
According to /co/, no show is actually good in a way that isn’t deliberately ironic, so therefore anime wonned

>>150824235
fair. its just strange how little discussion there is around the quality of the writing. Not only that but the boarding is kinda shit too, so its not even that interesting visually

>>150821096
The second they start having a suit telling them what they need to do instead of what they want to do it stops being indie.

>>150824222
There is nothing to suggest they would do that. Glitch has a history of making limited series and giving their creators full creative control. Coercing Goose to rewrite her show to keep TADC on life support so the money train can keep chugging along would be antithetical to their whole ethos.

>>150824296
That's the fun part, anon: They don't have a fucking ethos. You're a fool to believe otherwise.

>>150819108 (OP)
>indie bubble
What exactly makes this a """bubble"""?

>>150824268
I'm with you on this. I think TADC is fine. I've watched episodes and I don't come away thinking "this is fucking garbage", but I also don't think the show warrants the rabid fanbase it has based on storytelling or visual merits. There are elements made to appeal to a certain demographic known for hyper-fixating on things they find interesting and I think that explains most of the fervor behind it.
It also has the same sort of "cutesy thing is actually kind of messed up" appeal that stuff like FNAF or Happy Tree Friends had (which seems to have appealed to the same type of person).

>>150824335
I'm basing that statement off of the statements they have directly made about how they go about running their business. Of course those are statements they've prepared for the public so who knows where the actual line is, but considering how they've conducted themselves from Murder Drones and on, they seem to be putting their money where their mouth is.

>>150824396
it honestly is mostly shipping because even if /co/ and glitch want to tell you its an adult animated series™, most of its fans just obsess over the character interactions because thats basically the entire show anyway. I think there will be a lot more criticism as time goes on but people are having fun so whatever. it does suck though and is at best a 6/10 and at worst a 4/10.

>>150823088
That's just the cons of doing 3d.
You can't have that many characters without overblowing your modeling and rigging work, while in 2d you can make all of them distinct

>>150823347
Anime style = SHIT and instantly ignored by me

I'm sure i speak for many in here.
And i like anime, made in japan obviously

>>150819108 (OP)
Knight of Borevere is already the biggest disappointing flop of the year

>>150824595
It's not even anime style, it's only something I can describe as "Western fandom" style. It's got an obvious anime influence but phoned in draftsmanship, anatomy, and character design. It makes the trailer for >>150823347 look weirdly unfinished with the way the characters are drawn in combination with the over composited lighting effects. Probably one of my least favorite artstyles because it's not even a unique homage to anime artstyles like the Powerpuff Girls or Teen Titans, it's just a byproduct of not consuming or studying art outside your immediate fandom bubble.

>>150824179
>jeffyfag

It actually appears to be some other new sperg just copy-pasting what he said
https://desuarchive.org/co/search/image/LNyi_FaE2Lq6Vt2UPmryvA/
The real jeffytard would also never say something like that without attaching that autistic ass picture to it.

>>150819108 (OP)
A bubble exists when something is extremely over valued for what it actually is.
Like Woke DEI stuff.
That was a bubble and it popped because it wasn't giving a return on the investment they put into it.

There is no Indie bubble because it's a scene instead.
A collective of people pouring their own money and time into making what little they can.

The question you should be asking is when the Indie Scene is going to explode.
You can get a 10 person team animating a 12 episode series in under a year for less than $600,000.
I'm surprised multimillionaires aren't commissioning animation studios to make shows so that they can show off to their friends.
>"You bought a painting, that's nothing compared to what I've got. An animated series. It won several awards."

>>150824595
>>150824876
how about this?
https://youtu.be/dOv2keIL4RU

>>150825252
>Like Woke DEI stuff
what the fuck are you even talking about?

>>150825297
READ THE NEXT LINE DIPSHIT.

>>150825345
I DID AND IT DOESN'T CLARIFY ANYTHING.
Woke and DEI can't be a bubble, retard. They're concepts (often poorly defined and maligned), not an industry.

>>150819108 (OP)
Realistically, Never. By it's own name, it would be insanely hard for the Indie bubble to pop since it's usually paid for out of the pockets of the creators and the fans supporting the project, no need to satisfy hook nosed investors unless you're actively taking money they're looking for back.
An indie project could die out due to lack of interest from it's audience, but Indie animation will never "Pop" in the way that AI will eventually eat its own tail or the dotcom bubble. If a project sucks ass, nobody will buy into it and it won't be able to make another episode. Simple.

>>150819108 (OP)
I don't know but I sure hope it does
If I can't make money with my cartoons, no one else should be able to either. Seriously, my main hope in life is for everyone to be brought down to my level

>>150825452
>A bubble exists when something is extremely over valued for what it actually is.
Literally establishes what a bubble is in the first line.
Woke and DEI stuff were extremely over valued.
HENCE A BUBBLE.

>>150819108 (OP)
No clue but apparently the Final Space guy is heavily involved with them now to the point of writing scripts
https://x.com/OlanRogers/status/1977457733113880787
I'm kinda surprised, desu. I always assumed he'd go back to his storytelling YouTube stuff after FS was canned but he's been doing animation projects consistently

>>150819108 (OP)
After TADC & Gaslight District end.

>>150822974
The animation being stiff & jittery looks bad. Stop trying to do that shit Sony started. It's horrible. Secondly it's just not feasible to release as a show the same way TADC has. There's too much going on with too many characters on the screen at any time.

>>150825611
Woke/DEI slop isn't something you can directly invest in so calling it a bubble makes no sense. It's more like a cargo cult.

>>150822974
Gaslight District didn't hook like the other Glitch shows, though both TADC and (specially) MD have very lousy pilot episodes.

>>150819108 (OP)
It isn't a bubble because it isn't stonks shit.

It's a scene like the other guy said.
Like the first indie gaming scene from years ago, it will reach a peak until people realise that most projects are not going to be financially sustainable and the hype will cool down, but it's never going away.

For Glitch itself, I fear they might implode considering they keep raising the animation quality way too much and if the next shows aren't hits they won't be able to survive.

>>150825611
Oh. You don't know what words mean.
Got it.

>>150822122
Execs can't create they can only buy shit other people enjoy.

>>15089108
Let’s just enjoy the fun while it lasts

>>150826071
>and if the next shows aren't hits they won't be able to survive
If they were growing like a bunch of retards, then sure. I don't think that they're expanding with the expectation that everything is going to do TADC numbers, but they have infrastructure in place now with vendors so they can make merch cheaper than before and can clear a better profit. They have a MUCH larger built-in audience than they did in the Murder Drones days, and they're constantly tightening up their pipeline so they can expand their visual capabilities without overextending.

If they just took whatever money came in and funneled it directly back out to the next production, then sure. That's how most anons would do it and that's why they'd fail. If they're handling it like an actual business, then they're making smart investments and saving reserves for a rainy day.

>>150825452
It actually is an industry. Look up sweetbaby inc.

>>150822122
Corpos are traditionally very bad at replicating indie/guerilla/DIY success. They can make the same moves, but they don't have the same sense of attitude, spirit, or sense of taste. It tends to come across as an obvious poser.

>>150825279
>made by Westerner
>doesn't look remotely anime
>looks like something someone from Gobelins would come out with
>uses anime in video title
This is just a case of some Western artist using the word "anime" for more street cred because they're afraid of using the word "cartoon". The word "animation" ot "animated series" is right there if they're so allergic to cartoon.

>>150826239
No, it's a concept that a company is apparently attempting to consult on. The industry is consultation, not DEI or "Woke". Those are just buzzwords that people use to say the quiet part out loud.

>>150826224
I've looked into some of their behind the scenes videos and I still feel they're over stretching their production for no good reason.
And current day "actual business" just chase trends to try to find a golden goose to squeeze to death and repeat the cycle.

>>150826293
Are they western?

>>150826330
>I've looked into some of their behind the scenes videos
oh, well then you're the expert

>>150826292
Doing niche shows isn't the path for large companies, but fostering middle and low budget projects with lower risk and a potential to get big is a better strategy than trying to force mega franchises into existing out of nothing (because none of the mega franchises we have now started that way). Look at every failed shitty cinematic universe we had in the last decade.

>>150826293
So there needs to be a way to redefine indy and non-mainstream cartoons.

Maybe something like indies. Or 'toons.

>>150819751
Naive as fuck

>>150819108 (OP)
When Kovach gets a job offer for a mainstream voice acting job and we realize he was the only reason anyone watched any of this crap

>>150822602
It wont pop, it will slowly deflated like VR did

>>150826428
>So there needs to be a way to redefine indy and non-mainstream cartoons.
why?

>>150819751
Disney hates letting their people work on anything that isn't a corporate product.

Turning Red, Luca, and Elio were actively sabotaged by Disney executives because they didn't have the control over them they wanted.

>>150825452
Did you hit your head while reading that guys post
Like in the middle of it did you hit your head

>>150826491
that implies that VR was ever inflated to begin with. It was a niche market at best

>>150826523
META and google lost billions on it

>>150819751
>Glitch can never reach a worldwide audience. Disney can do that.
YouTube.

>>150826330
>And current day "actual business" just chase trends
that's a trend. When I refer to business practice, I mean it in the sense of managing finances and resources

>>150819108 (OP)
it hasn't even started and we're just starting to get them in actual theaters with BFDI (tickets sold out to the point it's getting more releases somewhere else)

>>150826353
This is the creator's Linkedin page. You tell me. If the artstyle, Youtube description and upload all being in English, and the song being in English didn't make that clear you might be slow.

>>150826502
To make it new and foster a sense of ownership and separation from trashy "bean mouth"/"calarts" stuff.

>>150826325
Youre wrong.
ESG/DEI compliance is a real industry

I don't think anything bad will happen unless they are bought out. Will be interesting how much things change once digital citrus is over.

Bubble? Niggas really think they made a Minecraft/FNAF/Undertale

>>150826606
how much do you want to bet that the crowd for this shit would make autistic screeches comparable to that of a million banshees screaming at once?

>>150826919
It's a grift industry, it's only "real" insofar as it's not criminal. And even then, it occasionally is.

>>150826530
They invested in developing a technology that didn't pan out. That happens all the time. A bubble would imply that the*publicly traded worth* of the relevant technologies was vastly over-estimated. Stocks would have been vastly over-valued and then suddenly crashed when reality hit. META and Google stocks took a slight hit during that time, but nothing more than the usual ups and downs.

>>150826642
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the other trailer I posted.

>>150826904
>separation from trashy "bean mouth"/"calarts" stuff
you're retarded. "indie" isn't a style.

>>150819751
>Glitch can never reach a worldwide audience.
is this nigga retarded
>The Demon
LOL

>>150827539
Beanmouth is a thing right?
So why not indies ir toon?

Anime encompasses more the the traditional modern style but it's still anime

>>150822602
Probably by next year when they realize that they can't complete replace cartoons and tv shows the way they were hoping to and the money starts to grow thin
The next update being delayed will be the first sign then they will slowly let only huge companies like Disney use it but it will never be enough.
Once it finally does become public people will realize it has plateaued and it will take years of trial an error to make a stable scene but by then cartoons and tv studios will have likely collapsed

>>150819108 (OP)
When america goes to war with European nations.

>>150819751
>Glitch can never reach a worldwide audience.
It doesn't need to not should to. That's literally what makes things shit. Art isn't for the masses, it's for people that actually respects art.

>>150819108 (OP)
In about 2 years when it becomes not feasible to fund whole shows around merch

>>150828861
it took the mainstream industry decades to get to that point. What makes you think indies only have 2 years? People still buy Marvel bullshit

>>150827819
Indie describes how the production was financed. You can have several sub-descriptors under that umbrella. Something can be an indie slice of life show, or an indie shonen or indie noir, etc, but you won't be "redefining" indie. Those are all still productions that aren't financed by a publicly traded company.

>>150822602
Already has.
The problem with AI is it is a solution in search of a problem.
>Yes, hello, this machine can draw waifus for you
We already had drawfags. All AI did was let anyone do it. And with Stable Diffusion, it can be done for free.
>Yes, hello, this machine can summarize google searches
Any idiot could do this for himself. All you're doing is saving morons an extra minute.
>Yes, hello, this machine can summarize your meetings
Yeah, this is called 'taking notes' and anyone can do it.

AI is only of interest to lazy people, and provides no one with a product worth paying for. Yet it's supposed to be important enough to completely reorient the entire energy grid around.

>>150819108 (OP)
cool

>>150826487
Is Sonic the Hedgehog mainstream enough?

>>150819146
Aren't most major studios hemorraging cash right now? I guess if they thought they'd get a good return on investment they'd shell out the cash.

>>150825279
I'm so sick of artists who use that emo artstyle.
The past couple of years, I'm seeing a lot of old artists completely changed their own style to either make gothic/emo stuff or generally "y2k" style.

What will kill Glitch will be some false start for an animation.
Maybe the AI bubble takes the economy, one of the brothers gets terminally sick, blow up when a VA posts "Khmer Pride" or some other event that means they can't deliver or the show falls flat.
They have to let some people go.

Word of mouth spreads about how bad it is to work there, maybe rehashing prior drama that never really stooped. Just was quietened by the money.

Someone makes a complaint and it becomes a legal issue, Fairwork (since they're Australian) comes aknocking. Maybe Worksafe if someone goes after the crunch.

Between court and reputational damage, the viewers drop off until they file for closure.
Or they can't devote attention to QC and timeframes and it just becomes gaps without work until they cannot deliver.

Like Rooster Teeth, if one of the brother die, GLITCH will probably crash or get sold.

>>150822691
why is he so evil

>>150830884
I haven't seen any animations using something like this, and frankly I wouldn't mind it. Looks cool to me.

>>150831072
I don’t think so. The productions in Glitch are very well handled all around that I doubt it’s two people holding the whole thing together. Unlike Nintendo.

>>150819108 (OP)
The internet is the new TV and youtube channels are the Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon, what part don't you get?

>>150828861
>>150829162
Bloated productions are a very different issue entirely.

If the system was allowed to work as intended there wouldn't be a bubble and nothing to worry about. Let me explain it this way with a sportsball analogy

>early NFL
>teams that did bad lost fans and people quit showing up and they didnt make money
>no money means your team folded and you no longer had a team
But today thanks to le daddy government bailouts and abuse of the tax write off system studios can indefinitely bleed money and never be shut down

>>150819108 (OP)
There's no indie bubble, there's two enormously successful indie companies and every other indie is struggling as much as they ever did. In a bubble, every project would seem to be thriving.

>>150819108 (OP)
I'm pretty sure their foray into 2D animation will kill them. They've been doing fine for years with their in-house 3D animation team. Funding Knights of Guinevere and Lackadaisy requires outsourcing work to animation studios, and I'm worried about the cost adding up in that way. I'd love to be proven wrong. If Spindelhorse can do it, I guess Glitch can succeed, too.

>>150819146
>>150819536
>>150830800
It wouldn't be an old fashioned hostile takeover, the company is not even publicly traded. It would be in the form of some amazing Amazon or Hulu exclusive deal that comes with the bigger studio being able to layer in some more ownerships and the payouts being too good to pass up plus their content would be added to a more "legitimate" streaming service than just YouTube.

>>150819751
>NOOO YOU NEED US, THE MONEY PEDDLERS WHO NEVER CREATED ANYTHING OF OUR OWN
Come on man, if Glitch ever makes feature films it will only be a matter of time until they get deals with theaters.

the real question is when they will make a series that’s actually good

>>150822974
I assume people just have fatigue for zombies and "charming" criminals.

>>150819108 (OP)
How long will it be?

>>150822602
It already has.

>>150822122
We'll see what they cook up when they start catering to the YA audience again like Sony has been doing to great success.

>>150819108 (OP)
Don't know

>>150822122
Nothing besides their own hubris. Disney used to understand that some things could only be made in the fringe or outside the safe bubble of the disney brand, so they had stuff like Miramax and Touchstone to make the less "savory" movies back in the 80's to 00's.

>>150819751
>Glitch can never reach a worldwide audience
Their cartoon are released for free in at least 10 different languages and with more added on youtube. They already reached worldwide audience. What they need is a way to monetize their merch worldwide, which Disney can do, yes.

>>150822974
People are retard, it's the best show they have going in terms of raw animation and dialogue quality unless Knights of Guinevere pulls a rabbit out of their hat with the follow-up episode.

>>150823692
It's basic market manipulation. You get control of the biggest tools you have to manipulate the market for your own gain and you wouldn't do it? Especially after a big pandemic that stalled most investments worldwide?

>>150819108 (OP)
‘Indie bubble’ is almost a contradiction of terms. Economic bubbles exist because people pay into establishments with the assumption that they’ll see a return, and the pop comes when they don’t and withdraw investment en masse. The Indie market cannot be a bubble because it’s composed of privately owned IPs/studios that arefunded by fans and patrons. Fans and patrons can withdraw support and the IP/studio goes tits up, but the Indie market will never disappear or ‘pop’ so long as people are able to send their money where they want.

Also, you’re a retarded faggot who sucks more cock than science can explain

>>150819108 (OP)
when you industrycucks kill yourselves

>>150822122
Disney is a living stereotype of soulless, out-of-touch megacorps. Its like asking why Bethesda can't just make a less buggy and wonky game, it's just what they do as a reflection of the people in charge.

>>150824053
Still pissy about Gawker huh

>>150831160
The NFL is a bad example to use because that period you’re describing was dominated by the Packers, Bears, and Redskins because they had more money and prestige than the other teams. The owners of those teams realized if things were to continue as such, the NFL would be viewed as a sham league by the public because only 3 teams mattered (especially with the rise of the AFL), so they started the draft to get players to those other teams and instituted a salary cap later down the line. The top teams had to nerf themselves via teambuilding restrictions to have a more even playing field.

>>150835605
but there is no gain. You're just taxing your citizens more. Foreign countries don't take the hit. They just raise the price of their goods to compensate for the tariffs which means US citizens end up paying more to get the same product. Tariffs are something you do when you want to attempt to play hardball with A country because it will incentivize US manufacturers to get their raw materials from elsewhere where it's cheaper, but if you're starting a tradewar with ALL countries, you kind of just end up fucking yourself. America doesn't have a lot of necessary raw materials domestically so if it's now more expensive to get it from foreign countries, guess what? We just end up paying more.

Peak retard move.

>>150835645
you're expecting anons to have any idea how economics work. Most don't have jobs which is why they constantly misunderstand what constitutes a tax write off and how that even works.

>>150832594
sooner than you think

How does one make an indie cartoon that isn't Wastelandia or Monkey Wrench levels of bad?

>>150837856
Nepotism.

Sex with Pomni
Sex with N
Sex with Gwen

>>150837856
You just gotta develop good taste.
You can only make something as good as your tastes are.

>>150819108 (OP)
It may or may not be an "indie bubble." People have always made their own animated internet series of varying quality. But glitch and hazbin made it hip and swiggity to pit [PILOT] infront of the first episode of every series almost like a seal of quality or somethin. And only in the last few years did people use the terms "indie animation" like it's heckin wholsome. I feel like that specific [PILOT] trend is gonna be exploited to get attention and get old real fast.
But I don't think it's gonna stop people making independent shows if they want. They might even just be shitpost animations that take on their own life like Spooky Month.

>>150837856
first of all you don't have to die in a hill that isn't worth fighting for, that is why monkey wrench is such a massive "Who?" in the first place, because Zeurel doesn't want to abandon this idea he had since he was a kid (literally) despite not being worth the risk of bankruptcy.
second of all, you need an actually appealing idea to the target audience you want to reach, like for example: you like X thing, and want more of X but no one is doing things like X anymore so you have a little unfilled niche you can fill by doing X mixed with Y elements which would be your own style of doing X. In other words; you need to actually do shit on your own way.

It's not a bubble, it's just cope from people who don't like a show and can't articulate their criticisms coherently. Moreover, they're jealous of others enjoying it because it shows they're out of touch with what is popular.

>>150820280
This 1000%

>>150820280
>This SHIT isn't indie
So you don't know what indie means

>>150819108 (OP)
Not very long, I'm afraid.

>>150819108 (OP)
what bubble aren't there only like 3 successful indie shows

>>150819636
>>150820455
One of their shows is already on Netflix now, so wouldn't they be a more likely candidate?

>>150822974
What I gather of people barely into cartoons but hype stuff? Gaslight just doesn't stick for them. Same with Monkey Wrench. Fun concept. Interesting appearance but most people just don't click with it. It's like demanding someone not just like green. They need to LOVE it. Some people just ain't as into it as people hoped.

>>150819108 (OP)
As a guy who used to watch SMG4, it's certainly weird to think about the fact that not too long ago he was just some Asian kid making machinimas about Mario saying pingas. At first I thought this whole Glitch deal was gonna be a bust since Meta Runner didn't work out all that well

Glitch does not suffer the vulnerabilities of actual indie animation, so a bubble popping would not harm them.

>>150819108 (OP)
>How fast can we murder glitch
I don't know you mad person.

>>150825252
I was just talking to a friend about how the indie scene seems like the late 80s to early 90s video game scene. I think what were waiting for is for one of these indie shows to break the mold and then well see an out with the old in with the new with the big studios and these little ones probably super monetizing or even monopolizing as a publisher or full on aaa studio, and then everything will go back to normal and we'll every now and then get some nice animated movies or shows every so often in 20 years and well be back to square one.

Then well all reminisce about these shows and get mad at that one faggot who points out were glazing them for nostalgia and ignoring all their flaws.

>>150823197
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVEbwQZadIA

>>150847188
I wish the pilot had this kind of illumination.
I couldn't make out half the things that were happening on the screen.

>>150837016
Anon, there is plenty of personal gain to be had. You are assuming rich people care about their country, they mostly don't nowadays beyond the power said country has to protect their right to hoard money and assets. From a business point of view, this is a great way to gather resources for a future jump to another company, but instead of a company, it's the economy of a country. I guarantee you there's hundreds of people close to the top that are making bank with these decisions without producing a single thing and the guy in charge now has not problems burning bridges and resources to the ground because it's his last run (with the current undersanding of the constitution).

>>150847188
Sex with Mel

>>150848129
Wut