Thread 150946867

Batman: The Animated Series is a masterpiece, but every show has flaws. Find a flaw about this show. If you can't, atleast try to think of a nitpick

>>150946867 (OP)
I dont like just how batman changed to be more serious in TNBA

>>150946880
What made you not like that?

>>150946867 (OP)
They never show how Batman first fought the Joker or the Penguin.

>>150946867 (OP)
in heart of ice, Mr Freeze's tears didn't freeze and turn to ice at the end

>>150947047
Poetic license. His heart ISN'T "frozen" and his tears prove that.

>>150946867 (OP)
Bane and Hugo Strange were terribly adapted

>>150946867 (OP)
The big problems have more to do with TNBA.

>>150946867 (OP)
The obnoxious hitflashes, literally made to appease the censors, got much worse over the course of this shows, and they were at their worst with Teen Titans, you know, the show that literally cash in on the anime boom of the 00s, when i was watching raw action with Saint Seiya and Dragon Ball and even Rayearth since the 90s.

Yes imma beaner, blow me

Not enough Dahl

>>150947087
Is there an edit somewhere?

>>150947113
what are you talking about? what'd you mean?

>>150946991
I kinda liked how the first three seasons had batman be somewhat more emotional back then. He became more emotionless in TNBA. Not saying TNBA is bad or anything i still love that season but still. Anyways the best DCAU batman is bruce wayne in batman beyond
>>150947040
I kinda like that because it shows he theyre already pre-established but thats just me
>>150947066
I get bane but how was hugo strange badly adapted? Ive never read any of the comics with strange in them

>>150947143
If you played Arkham City that's closer to what comic Hugo Strange is like, but a bit more obsessed with Batman and has no connection to Ra's

>>150946867 (OP)
I've Got Batman in my Basement.

Nuff said.

>>150946867 (OP)
I didn't like the Batman Who Cucks.

The show basically has no idea what to do with Catwoman and she's probably the weakest of the rogues in it. Crucially, they flubbed the secret identity element. With Bruce and Selina you've got to go either all-in or all-out when it comes to their identities. Either they both know who's behind the other's mask, or neither of them do. But Batman finds out Catwoman's identity in her very first episode, and she never finds out his. It spoils their cat-and-mouse romance because he's always got the upper hand over her and she never gives as good as she gets.

Ironically, for all its flaws, The Batman does the dynamic much better.

>>150947113
You mean an edit that removes teh hit flashes, i dont think those would be possible because they were used (in teh context of these shows and other american action cartoons) to obscure the ''hitting frames'', you will just getting jumpcuts in their place.

>>150946867 (OP)
I've said this before but for every Heart of Ice and Mad Love there's 5 forgettable episodes people conveniently don't mention when talking about this show. The amnesia episode? Batman's in my basement? The Sewer King? They weren't all winners.

>>150946867 (OP)
bump

>>150947047
Salt.

>>150947644
>I've said this before but for every Heart of Ice and Mad Love there's 5 forgettable episodes people conveniently don't mention when talking about this show.
Probably because they have literally forgotten them.

>>150946867 (OP)
This episode was the weirdest I watched as a kid.

>>150946867 (OP)
A vast majority of the episodes are good, but even the good ones sometimes have the subtlety of a brick as far as their messaging goes, in the case that there is one.

A much bigger issue is that some episodes have noticeably shoddy animation, which is a shame, since even the worst episodes of BTAS are at least somewhat passable.

>>150946867 (OP)
BTAS suffered from the syndication curse where you HAVE to have 52/65 episodes instead of letting them make a normal season's worth of episodes. They made 85 episodes in THREE YEARS. You're not getting quality in every episode with that production schedule.

>>150946867 (OP)
that one episode with the terrible trio was pretty lame

>>150947644
>The amnesia episode?
kino
>Batman's in my basement?
despised by everyone
>The Sewer King?
kino

>>150946867 (OP)
Was there a reason why Fox aired Batman in primetime regularly for a time? I'm not even kidding, there was a time when in addition to aiming it at kids on Fox duiring weekday afternoons, they aimed it at adults or families in primetime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR9YPH-ThPI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXg4lZkjlHI

>>150946867 (OP)
Did Riddler and Penguin even have memorable episodes?

>>150946867 (OP)
When it switched to the Superman artstyle.

>>150949677
was this actually network programming or is it something an affiliate did
I don't remember it and I loved TAS

>>150949709
>Did Riddler and Penguin even have memorable episodes?

Riddler: "If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich?"
Penguin: multiple good episodes in the original batman: The Animated series. penguin's design completed changed when they did the redesigns for all of the characters. Once the Penguin became a night club owner, and not based on Danny DeVito's penguin, he had a lot less memorable episodes.

>>150949755
The Fox network was programming it

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-12-16-ca-1820-story.html

>>150949677
Probably because Fox was hurting for primetime content back then

>>150949709

Which one? The second version of the Penguin was the one that 'they' originally wanted to use for the show. But WB told them to make The Penguin more like the one in Batman Returns. As cross promotion. The Penguin was soft rebooted when the characters were all redesigned for New Adventures, or Batman and Robin. The early Penguin was a featured villain, the second version was semi retired and had a night club.

>>150949709

Which Penguin? The second version of the Penguin was the one that 'they' originally wanted to use for the show. But WB told them to make The Penguin more like the one in Batman Returns. As cross promotion. The Penguin was soft rebooted when the characters were all redesigned for New Adventures, or Batman and Robin. The early Penguin was a featured villain, the second version was semi retired and had a night club.

>>150946867 (OP)
catwoman and the penguin totally got the short end of the stick initially

also they got AKOM to do a good chunk of joker epsidoes which is just wild in retrospect to think about

>>150950292
Riddler also barely appears in BTAS despite how important of a villain he is. I heard its because the writers barely wanted to use him and corporate mandates had to have him in every so often. Like the fucking episode trial has mad hatter and ventriloquist and scarface have speaking roles while riddler is silent in the crowd of villains

>>150946867 (OP)
Dick Grayson looked like shit in this show. Every version of him looked awful. The way they handled Dick was clumsy.

>>150946867 (OP)
The show feels incredibly low energy. It's hard to describe, but what I can say is that it's not because it's slow paced; it specifically feels low energy even for the pace it chooses. The way characters talk, the way they move, the way they fight, the score used for each scene, it's honestly somewhat overly tame or borderline dull.

Timm is never taken to task for deaging the female cast of btas when they switched to na.

Suddenly all the women have the same build as supergirl and babs, who are teens. Harley, ivy and catwoman all loose height and body mass in the redesign.

I'd given them livewire as she was always this short little brat, maybe even asian or apart Mexican, but she started short. What is the excuse to changing all of the established women to match super girl?

>>150949385
the HMOFA episode

>>150950512
Speeds up production, just draw the same woman shape and colour in the details later

>>150950320
Timm said it was hard to do Riddler in 24 minutes. I agree.

>>150946867 (OP)
Definitely the ugly episodes. It's very easy to point at laugh at complete travesties like The Mechanic or Catch Scratch fever, but the episodes with great scripts and mediocre presentation like Joker's Favor, the Man Who Killed Batman, Birds of a Feather and Mad as a Hatter are the real victims here. Victims of the sindication thing. Granted those episodes are still kind of saved by having such expressive storyboards and by the god tier music/voice acting, the audio side of this show was always outstanding.

>>150949709
>Penguin
Birds of a Feather and Blind as a Bat were great. The rest are meh. But Paul Williams never failed to deliver, his Penguin voice was impeccable, and even in his worst episodes he's entertaining to listen to.

>>150950394
The leisure pace and constant breaks in movement/sound is actually one of my favorite things about the show. It makes it feel classy.

>>150946867 (OP)
Every Joker episode.

>>150946867 (OP)
There are noticable animation errors like the backwards bat.

Easily the Sean Catherine Derek episodes. I'll throw in Maxie Zeus' writeup from the old ToonZone days.
>By causation or coincidence, there is not one single good episode of Batman: The Animated Series that has Sean Catherine Derek's name on it.
>The evidence for this sour claim? “The Cat and the Claw,” “Cat Scratch Fever,” “Nothing to Fear,” “P.O.V.”, “Prophecy of Doom.” And “The Forgotten.”
>In Batman Animated, Paul Dini reports that Derek (the series’ first story editor) had a sensibility out of step with that of Timm and co-producer Eric Radomski: “While [they] were pushing for gritty action stories, Sean lobbied for Batman to help the homeless and install a recycling bin in the Batcave.” I don’t remember whether the recycling bin ever made it in, but the homeless angle did. The result is the one episode of BTAS that I wish I could forget.
>Dereks’ metier, apparently, was social comment. Now, there’s nothing wrong with social comment per se, and such “gritty action” noir eps as “It’s Never Too Late,” “Robin’s Reckoning,” and even “Paging the Crime Doctor” show how far an animated series can handle it competently. [...] But each of these “ripped from the headlines” stories was hung on a tight, economical story of conflict and brutality. They were unhappy tales of vulnerable men beaten down and destroyed by a godless, mindless, inhumane society.
>Derek’s scripts, though, tend to adopt a more professorial air: here is a problem, and look: Batman is concerned about it. What conflict and brutality they contain comes discourtesy of a bland but thuggish villain: the Rasputin-wannabe of Nostromos; the colorless gangsters of “P.O.V.”; the one-dimensional Professor Milo. In each of these (and even in the more conventional “The Cat and the Claw”) a “problem” is identified and Batman squinches up his brow thoughtfully before decking someone. The stories are boring, condescending, and complacent.

>>150946867 (OP)
TNBA as a whole is the problem, transforming the cast from human beings (and monsters) with emotions to the robotic caricatures that persisted through the rest of the DCAU. I don’t care for the meme prep time Batman who stoically and effortlessly hogties demigods. BTAS has a uniquely human portrayal of Batman, whose struggles and flaws make the series feel more grounded. The same goes for the villains. Freeze is the go-to example, but Clayface’s breakdown in the climax of his introductory story is just as harrowing. By the end of the show they are senseless goons attacking the city with no good reason, and are distinguished only by the powers they use.

>>150950614
>It makes it feel classy.
How that weaves into the show and setting is what gets me to ultimately respect it. It fits the "Dark Deco" aesthetic, which itself is a match for Gotham being all "old money that's steeped in darkness and corruption." There's a clear vision to it that is well executed for what it is, and it plays to the side of Batman and Gotham that has been kinda lost as times change and the behavior/perception of high society has shifted immensely.

But I will also nevertheless be a bit put to sleep by it in most episodes.

>>150946867 (OP)
It was a great show but it had flaws out the ass.
Wildly inconsistent animation.
A few clunkers like the chain gang episode.
Inflicted Harley Quinn on the world (I thought she was great modern take on the henchmolls of old in her first appearance, but when they started writing her like a “fan favorite” she became insufferable).
Like many have said, Superman TAS had lower highs but higher lows.

>>150950675
You can really tell Derek came from older kid shit like the Smurfs, her episodes have this bubbly vibe that could be jarring or stupid, and the villains are really old-fashioned caricatures. That being said, POV, The Forgotten and Nothing to Fear (barely) are alright, but a lot of the lifting is done by stuff other than the script:

>POV : great premise that's executed fairly well we see the cops give conflicting explanations, but we see it play out like it did. Stellar animation overall, Robbie Benson's bit role is very fitting, as is that Rondo Hatton-looking drill thug. It's also the first time we see Bullock for what he really is. Just a very inspired episode.
>The Forgotten : they are really preachy as well as the overall premise (that fucking villain is laughable lmao) but I still love the nightmares Bruce has, they're a good look into Batman's mind. Alfred figuring shit out and going to Bruce's aid was awesome, and the harmonica music is so memorable and atypical for this show. Corny as shit yeah but I like it still.
>Nothing to Fear : eeeeh yeah this one kind of meh but it's a serviceable enough intro to Scarecrow's shtick, it's your bog standard "Batman gets gassed and he's gotta face his fears" plot. It's dragged down by that sort of preachy presentation CSD's episodes had, the fear hallucinations are really hard to take seriously, except the one with Summer talking to Batman through the TV, that one's great. But the score is AWESOME and so is Henry Polic's voice. And the way these old WB cartoons were produced, you get really memorable sequences like when Scarecrow's thugs get off the ladder, it goes so well with the music. 5 maybe 6/10.

The rest of her episodes are bad and some of the worst of the series yes. I kinda enjoy Prophecy of Doom as something goofy that could pass for a 60s Batman premise and it's got that awesome sequence of Batman fighting Lucas with the sharp shadows (picrel) but yeah it's dull as dishwater.

>>150946867 (OP)
One of the show's writers said that anime is better, which I find funny
https://dcanimated.com/WF/batman/btas/backstage/interviews/kirkland.php

>>150946867 (OP)
Bane is genuinely one of the only characters the comics this show just couldnt make work
i remember reading a interview with either Dini or Timm explaining they just didnt know or care much about the character (makes sense, most of the show is focused on Batmans longstanding golden age/silver age rogues galary) but his portrayal here sure didnt help with Bane's reputation outside of comics in the 90s, TNBA did rectify this to a certain degree

>>150950573
Yeah it's hard to write a character smarter than yourself. At least he had two good episode with IYSMWAYR and Riddler's Reform and one okay episode with What is Reality which is better than most rogues.

>>150950775
You know what, no, I will defend the two Harley-centric episodes because they were very charming Screwball comedy pastiches which fit like a glove with the show's setting. Ditto for Sorkin's voice which was funny and cute as hell, up to the show's high standards. As shitty as nu Harley is I will never blame the original for what they did with her in the future.

>>150950789
I mean, he's not wrong at all even though TV anime has its own limitations and laundry list of bullshit as well, and being humble about it is just the right attitude.

>>150950789
Based

>>150946867 (OP)
Animation gets really janky at times. I don't know how everyone hates the Basement episode when the Werewolf one is clearly the worst. Stupid plot, boring villain, animation errors everywhere.
Also this >>150947508

>>150950839
Not exactly, it depends on the network and studio, anime on Premium paid channels are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want so those spots are mostly used for fanservice/ecchi series now, the ones that air on basic channels have to be toned down however, some streaming services such as Disney Plus would ask anime companies to tone down their series and that's why stuff like the later seasons of MHA are censored, but other streaming services like Prime Video allow them to do whatever they want and that's why the second season of Panty & Stocking showed Panty's vagina multiple times

>>150950839
Seggs with Harely

>>150950654
Shut up contrarian

>>150950789
Agreed, half of the episodes were good, but plenty were straight up shit, also have you noticed how every single time people make those "top ten episodes" lists, the Joker episodes they include are the ones where he's part of a villain team up and not a solo villain? (Almost Go Im' and Trial for example), It goes to show that Joker was a weak solo villain in the show and he was at his best when he interacted with other villains instead

>>150950855
Stfu weebtroon

>>150950871
I am familiar with older anime (70s-90s) which was the context of the original quote, and even though I don't give a flying fuck about post digital era anime, the shit you're describing also happened back in the day when you compare OVA and TV anime adaptations of the same series. TV anime of the time got hit almost as hard with rushed, inconsistent animation, dozens of network-mandated episodes, being forced to tone down manga or novels being adapted... many of the same problems BTAS faced. And even then, over-indulgent OVA also ran into many problems, falling short in the writing department, running out of episodes, creators leaving... I agree japanese cartoons were overall a more "pure" of animation and Timm/whoever was right to feel humbled by them, but they were not without fault. Nothing is.

>>150950916
Not him, but speaking of network-mandated episodes, you can really tell their heart wasn't in a lot of Joker episodes, even though they still came out well. Timm even admitted "The Last Laugh" wasn't the kind of character-driven episode they enjoyed doing, but the network wanted a generic action romp. I suspect Penguin also fell prey to this.

>>150950962
There are 90s TV anime with blood and tits, Nightwalker and Blue Seed for example, but they do seem to have budget problems near the end of the show as if they blew all their budget in the first half

>>150949709
I like Riddler's Reform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_PioOmxEjg

>>150949709
According to the DVD extras and artbook they wrote about 11 Riddler's episodes, but only ended up animating 3 of those because his character was too complex to handle in 22 minutes
as for Penguin I liked "Birds Of a Feather"

>>150950933
I think Laughing Fish and Joker's Favor were the only Joker episodes they really wanted to make, and the only ones you see in top 10s anyways. The rest were studio mandates. Man Who Killed Batman and the other ensemble deals with him were great though, yes, so I can't fault them too much, every major Rogue has at least one great episode and that's not a bad track record at all.

>>150950971
Oh shonen manga also had tits in general (Dragon Ball and Karakuri Circus come to mind), it's more of a cultural thing. But sometimes they were forced to tone down nakedness/ecchi, violence. A very famous example is One Piece, which has many bits of violence toned down for the anime. Also like I said, when you compare an OVA to a TV series, you can definitely tell the OVA is less shy about showing bouncing tits and extreme violence. Watch the original GaoGaiGar, then compare the level of fanservice to Final's lmao.

>>150949709
>>150951014
If anything the villain that got it the worst was Scarecrow, every single one of his episodes is shit aside from The New Batman Adventures one, they clearly had no fucking idea of what to do with Scarecrow given that he had a different design on every episode and stopped showing up after season 1 all the way to the last season

>>150950933
Laughing Fish is great though, just the top ten episodes are all time classics, and also shouldn't be indicative of the villain's quality.
I mean does Perchance to Dream being goated mean Mad Hatter is a top tier rogue?

>>150951031
>Not liking Dreams in Darkness
And Fear Victory isn't shit, it's not great, but it's not on the level of The Terrible Trio or Batman In my Basement.

>>150951043
*Fear of Victory

>>150951021
One Piece came out after they changed the law and added more regulations to basic cable anime (1999), the anime that preceded One Piece in it's current time slot was the Dr Slump remake (1997) and that one spammed loli nudity

>>150946867 (OP)
The Batmobile is the worst one

>>150951031
Nah Penguin got it the worst of the classic rogues.
Birds of a Feather is the only episode that can even break top 25
Otherwise it's Bane who has NO good episode.
Now Harvey I think they loved him because he had the banger debut two parter, a decent mystery and furthering of how bad his condition was in Second Chance, and was the driving force to create Batgirl and Tim Drake Robin. And while Judgement Day wasn't a good finale it was still a good episode, not a standout but still good.

>>150951070
That’s Nolan’s one

>>150951075
Bruce Timm and Paul Dini said multiple times that they disliked Bane, and you can see that on how they wrote him, Paul Dini shat on Bane some more in the Arkham games as well

>>150951031
>>150951043
The second Scarecrow design was already good though. And whatever you think of "Fear of Victory", I absolutely love how that episode looks, I think it's TMS-animated, and had many inspired sequences. It's got the famous Arkham scene, Scarecrow scaring the daylights out of that Tim Curry thug, Batman going through that lady's window, and the climax juxtaposed to the football game is a lot of fun. Not to mention, doing a fun goofy premise with Scarecrow is such a breath of resh air with even the other two episodes being "Batman gets over his fears". It's just a good episode.

Other than that, isn't Dreams in Darkness regarded as one of the best episodes of the show? The acid trip nightmares of that episode are some of the best visuals in the show, up there with Clayface's meltdown. At the very least you can say Scarecrow got two full-effort episodes, and even though Henry Polic had throat problems during S2 (the reason Scarecrow is silent in Trial) he still had some great bits in Lockup and Harley's Holiday.

>>150951055
Oh man, that reminds me of the 80s Doctor Slump anime, which, to someone who knew the original manga and watched the catalan dub of the 97 anime growing up, felt so kiddified and cutesy compared to the original comic. It's basically a kodomo anime, crazy how the 97 anime was so much better at keeping the cynical edge of Toriyama's manga.

>>150949677
>>150949755
Simpsons had zero competition in primetime cartoons atp (anything that tried ending up being punching bag material, like Capitol Critters).

So there ended up being a very brief experiment of 'why don't try putting kids' cartoons that are already liked in PT': this and The WB w/ Pinky & The Brain. Both failed miserably.

>>150951101
I at least respect they didn't care for Bane out of dislike for the character and not because he was new. Ventriloquist was also a pretty new Batman villain and they fucking loved him in this show because he fits much better with his classic rogues than the very 90s coded Bane. You can at least see their reasoning.

>>150951101
Bane was way too new in the comics atp to properly adapt, and upon first glance anyone'd think of him as your standard '90s edgevillain.

I imagine this is why they didn't use Doomsday until the near end of DCAU

>>150951055
>spammed loli nudity
So did Doraemon with Shizuka, and in a less "lol pervert!!!" way, Gundam had Fraw bathing the kids, Vifam has it even in its opening, even a couple of Miyazaki movies did. I think for these kid friendly shows it was just seen as something harmless and innocent.

>>150947087
You gotta go back

>>150951103
Dreams In Darkness was weak IMO, they handled Scarecrow much better in the tie in comics

Reminder that BTAS Batman dies a lonely old man never able to move on from his trauma, his family completely estranged besides Terry and having never been able to finally settle down and find peace with a woman.
At least he pounded Barbara's teen pussy Lmaooo get cucked Greyson

>>150949847
I remember there were a handful of times they played OG Power Rangers in the evening

>>150951359
Won't argue that hard, Dreams in Darkness is more of a Batman than a Scarecrow story, and it's kind of a recycle of "The Last Arkham" comic carried by its presentation. Plus Scarecrow had some great stories in that comic, I think Study Hall and Johnny Can't read are the best stories to try and humanize Scarecrow in anything, giving him childhood bully trauma is getting kinda old.

I don't get why everyone is so negative on the Bane episode. Even though Timm and co. said they didn't like him, the episode itself portrays him as a very serious threat, having him thrash Killer Croc and wreck the batmobile with his bare hands. He's clearly very intelligent and menacing, and totally dominates Batman in their showdown at the end. It looked for all the world like he was about to win that fight before Bruce stabbed his venom control and he starts roiding the fuck out. But I just chalk that up to Batman has to win cause they didn't want to do the whole Knightfall storyline.

So despite saying they didn't like him, I never thought they made him less of an effective villain.

>>150951826
It's a fine, well-produced episode and they didn't half ass it at all, I get you. But it's easy to be biased cuz of Timm's comments and because for some reason people expected them to adapt Knightfall or have Bane more often I guess. Also Bane looked like a fucking muppet, people give his TNBA bdsm redesign tons of shit but I think it's superior, the only one other than Scarecrow I think it's cool.

>>150946867 (OP)
>Fucking chicken soup

>>150946867 (OP)
>find a flaw
The punches are all censored.
Seriously, they thought it was too violent for BATMAN to PUNCH someone. No blood, just punching.

So there is always a stupid cut when he is about to punch people.

>>150946867 (OP)
Episode quality varied wildly in terms of animation and writing. When it was good, it was brilliant. When it wasn't good, it was mediocre at best.
Still puts it head and shoulders above most western animated shows that came before it, mind you... not that it was really THAT 'western' given that all the gruntwork was done by Japanese and Korean studios.

>>150950789
I mean, yeah. Anime > cartoons, duh.
Even /co/ agrees with this fact.

>>150946867 (OP)
>Find a flaw

ALL of his episodes are S-H-I-T.
They didn't know what to do with him, so they made Harley

>>150952228
Could have been any hot liquid, could have been tea. Or some hot steamy bat-liquid out of the cockles of his utility belt.

>>150951402
>Hi my name is Bruce and I hate every single one of you

There's only like one good penguin story

>>150951075
>Harvey made exactly Two Batfam members
Do you think it was intentional?

>>150952293
At least there were still constant punches, and the intro had some as well. Even both Spiderman and X-Men got ONE punch during their whole run iirc.

>>150946867 (OP)
It might sound weird, but I am always salty how Over the Edge cucks out at the very end.
That could've been such a powerful series finale, but Bruce Timm didn't have the balls to finish the TNBA on such a grim note.
And accidentaly, that would've been a great pick up point for Batman Beyond as well.

>>150951826
It's mostly the ending where Bruce basically tells Thorn "This was the best your got?" then unmasking him to an ugly jobber mug, and then he doesn't show up again until TNBA where that wasn't even real that was a dream and then after that it's in STAS.

>>150946867 (OP)
Made Zatanna "another Batman love interest when she's not with Constantine" in a lot of people's minds.

>>150951826
>>150952718
To emphasize my point, look at If You're So Smart, Batman was done with Nigma the moment he met him, but Nigma got the last laugh by showing he had already escaped Gotham and leaves us with the more striking ending of Mocrich cowering in his bed

How the fuck did House And Garden get past censors?

A significant number of just peter out with the villian sad-crying.
>crime
>batman
>crime
>bruce wayne
>arch villian
>batman
>arch villian crime
>batman
>sad arch villian
>then it just sort of ends
>and we show it
>full tears
It's cool to see the monster-of-the-week (gotta sell them toys) as a kid, but the series was extremely formulaic. The rewatchability of the series is almost nonexistent because it has to be broken up to be palatable.
Still better than 99% of animated media.

>>150953110
>it has to be broken up
It is already broken up for you, you can watch any episode you like and ignore the ones you don't. That's the "monster of the week" format for you. So if you enjoy it in any way, it is extremely rewatchable. Same as with Star Trek.

>>150947240
It's actually not a bad episode and it's just a fun little story even if cliched
Terrible Trio is way worse

>>150952758
Bane hit that moment of hype when he fodderized Killer Croc and broke the batmobile, that's hs "last laugh". That character is all about challenging himself and his physical strength. If he loses, both go out the window, and I doubt Timm and company planned to put him in another episode, so that's the way it had to go I guess.

>>150953566
It's like a Scooby Doo episode or something, if you're fine with that, I guess yes, there's less fun episodes, people are a little anal about this kid's show being for kids sometimes. But it's still pretty shoddy, I only kind of enjoy it because Paul Williams is so damn good.

>>150950220

Funny how much less interesting he became after they got what they wanted. I don't think the Veronica Vreeland episode would have worked nearly as well with the second design either since he's just short.

>>150950821
I almost feel like Bane's episode was a "Take that!" at the characters. I recall hearing that some industry people, both in comics and animation, thought Knightfall was stupid and believed it shouldn't be that easy for a guy like Bane to beat Batman because he's fought worse

>>150946867 (OP)
>Find a flaw about this show.

Some episodes don't look as good as others (though even the worst looking episodes look better than anything today, and even most things of its period).

>>150946867 (OP)
>>150946880
>>150951402
Yeah this right here
After Robin's Reckoning it stings even more that they had Bruce sort of degenerate like that
I know it's the point that being Batman consumed him but I feel like even the comics knew not to go that far (for the most part)

I would consider all of TNBA a flaw, but I don't even consider it the same show. It's just a dumbed-down kiddy cartoon that came out 5 years later that bares some resemblance to BTAS. I never rewatch it.

>Batman can't punch anyone in BTAS
>But STAS can straight up have a gas chamber execution

>>150954299
>Funny how much less interesting he became after they got what they wanted. I don't think the Veronica Vreeland episode would have worked nearly as well with the second design either since he's just short.

I don't hate the second design. The Penguin still was used quite a bit, but he became a neutral character. The animated series was released around the same time as Batman Returns. I think that Penguin is like the 60's version crossed with the Devito version. He had some good stand alone episodes... I liked Blind as a Bat and the one with Batman in the the kids basement. They changed those elements when Burton was replaced by Schumacher.

>>150955209
Is complex, it reminds of the kgbeast dilemma, did batman keeps killing him or is he just prone to danger?

>>150950821
That all said? Henry Silva killed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bUl9YeRQ7Q

>>150955209
He punched people often, it was just restrained, and obscured if it happened. Off the top of my head: when he punches Thorne's henchman in Twoface 1, the view shifts to behind a catwalk glass. When he punches Mugsy in the Scarface episode, he punches the screen, then there's a flash of light begore he sends him flying. It was very literally "well we're not SHOWING HIM punching anyone so it's okay right? :')"

By STAS and TNBA, they switched to another network and they had already become a critical darling, so they were given more leeway. Joker made his debut on the STAS crossover killing that antique shop guy on screen, corpse and chalk outline and all! And visibly shooting Batman in the arm in the Christmas episode.

>>150946867 (OP)
Batman becomes more and more annoying as the show goes on.

>>150955257
Older Penguin design is better. They only went with this shitty new design because they felt nostalgic for the crappy old Golden Age look.

>>150952689
>NOOOOO little timmy can't watch a drawing of a guy swinging his arm and another guy falling! Too violent!
>even if the implication that it happened it's so obvious that it doesn't really matter either way

Why are americans so cucked?

>>150956090
Religion.

>>150955257
>>150955847
>>150954299
OG Penguin is not crappy at all because the artists of the time knew how to draw him well within the contest. The issue is with backtracking on what they had in TAS, fixing what ain't broke out of stubborness. Their Penguin already was a great compromise between Devito and Classic. It was pitch fucking perfect, it's a Penguin that workds both as a freaky monster man and a gentleman thief, it's so good. When he's trying to act like a gentleman but can't help but act like a hoodlum in BoaF, it's charming and hell and really believable. And he would have worked as businessman Pengy too. So the decision to undo it comes off as more petty than anything, you know they just wanted to stick it to the executives that forced them to change it, even if the results were so good.

>>150956090
>>150956510
Puritanism, they just didn't want any nasty business kids could imitate on their programming, like any at all. I know general audiencies, politicians and overprotective moms from the time agreed with those decisions, Batman TAS, Gargoyles and early Simpsons seem quaint by today's standards but back then they were cutting edge bro.

>>150956090
>>150956510
>>150956843
Why did soccer mom shit not go away like it was meant to and only seemingly gotten worse over the years? I pray for the day parents groups and other moralfag organizations start being the recipients of ted K care packages

Some episodes just had plotlines which are kinda boring by today's standards.

Also, Batman being mostly monolithic except when it comes specifically to romance was a bad idea for the character.

>>150956843
>Puritanism, they just didn't want any nasty business kids could imitate on their programming, like any at all. I know general audiencies, politicians and overprotective moms from the time agreed with those decisions, Batman TAS, Gargoyles and early Simpsons seem quaint by today's standards but back then they were cutting edge bro.

And they paled even back then with Dragonball and Saint Seiya if you were a spic living in Latin America or were lucky to have Caritele or Canal 5 via Cable or you had access to Televisa or TV Azteca networks via frontier city signals, just as we Mexicans living in frontier cities had access to FOX YUMA and CBS and ABC signals in English via Antenna (but usually at craptastic signals)

>>150947040
>They never show how Batman first fought the Joker or the Penguin.
Because they assumed kids saw the movies.

>>150957314
That was on TV, and Japan's animation has always been another story, but the Batman comics of the time could be pretty grizzly as well. I remember loving Scarface in BTAS, then going to see his first appearance in the comics and it's super fucked up, he orders one of Ventriloquist's best friends killed and uses his corpse to smuggle drugs, and an old man is burnt to death by some junkies in the same issue. There was no way in hell they were gonna put that on TV.

>Saint Seiya
But now that you mention Saint Seiya, funnily, I had read the manga when I was a kid, and I remember laughing when I saw how the anime censored Ikki brutally dismembering the Wolf Knight with his ilusion powers. And I knew it wasn't like a 4kids thing, because I was watching it in Japanese. I guess some things are too extreme even for anime lmao but I sure felt like a badass looking at those violent comics as a kid.

>>150957388
>>>150947040
>>They never show how Batman first fought the Joker or the Penguin.
>Because they assumed kids saw the movies.

When I was a kid, I could never figure out if this show was a continuation to the Burton movies or not. Obviously the Joker and Penguin are still alive. Joker was called Jack Napier in some episodes, penguin has his amphibious Penguin mobile. The cartoons always had a light tie-in to the movies. The name was changed to Adventures of Batman & Robin around the same year that the Batman & Robin movie was released. Batman TAS/ New Adventures/ Batman & Robin were always aligned with the movies.

>>150957112
It never went away, and likely will NEVER go away (at least not until the birth rate completely collapses) because of how American culture has a terrible relationship with sex and violence, and the failure of American parenting as a whole. American moms and single women like to butt in to men's spaces and emasculate/feminize/infantilize their stuff because the average American household does not actually value emotional connection within the family. The average family dynamic is dysfunctional at best, and abusive at worst. Television, video games, and the internet have increasingly atomized parents and children: something that has only worsened as both parents work. Parents will push the kid in front of a tablet or TV or computer and get them to shut up while they sit down and relax from work or relationship issues, and they don't want the kid imitating anything disruptive they see on the screen.

Maxwell Atoms posted on his Tumblr about how this is one of the reasons we'll likely never see a show like Billy and Mandy again. And if you want a cartoon example of moms censoring crap, there's always the classic Simpsons episode about Marge trying to ban Itchy and Scratchy.

>>150957921
Why do you weirdos always gotta make it about women? You bitch, shit and cum all the time about bitches invading your spaces but I have never seen a hoe IRL even remotely interested in this autistic fucking medium

>>150946867 (OP)
The bit where the Joker is scared of the IRS. The IRS is a toothless organization that only goes after the poor. It was famously defeated by the Scientology. Why the fuck would the Joker be afraid of them?

>>150946867 (OP)
Grace Lamont (Dent's wife) and Two-Face's twin henchmen never show up never show up again after Two Face's debut episode.

>>150957921
I just wish someone could do something to these people thatll make them shut up forever. Like exposing the concerned moms of america leader of pedophilia or something thatll invalidate these types for good. I hope they all die horribly
>>150957965
Not him but its almost always cunts doing this moralfag shit. Its either no fun allowed feminists or christcuck bitches responsible for moralfagging

>>150956090
>>150957921
While it's common for ALL moms around the world to censor what entertainment their sons and husbands enjoy, America gets screwed over by how there's a lack of space for women's entertainment in geeky media. Japan mostly circumvented this by establishing girls' and women's manga and dating/eroge games which is why censorship isn't as bad for men's stuff when compared to what goes on in the West. As long as the girls get their own clubhouse, they'll usually leave the boys alone.

We don't really have that kind of thing for girls, at least in terms of infrastructure (blame the long-term consequences of the Comics Code). So the girls feel like they're not included at all, and the resulting attitude is "if I can't get what I want, you won't get what you want". This is also further screwed by how American culture generally looks down on geeky media being for kids or manchildren, so any potentially interested women feel even MORE left out.

>>150957965
Because dads are generally more lax about mature material in media aimed at their sons. So what if Tommy sees some cleavage or watches dismemberment? That's just an opportunity for bonding. Moms get uncomfortable because seeing that reminds them that their boys will leave the nest sooner than they think...and also because a lot of media aimed at men is admittedly misogynistic/chauvinist: not so much in that it sexualizes women, but in how women are dismissed/plot devices/forgettable, and women REALLY do not like the idea of a story where they don't matter outside of being treated like a literal object. They have a sixth sense for that shit.

>>150958031
>Twoface's henchmen
Min and Max were supposed to be killed by Thorne (they drop like a fucking sandbag on the floor), but that Harley Quinn movie resurrected them and made them sing a public domain song. But Grace returned for two (pretty good) Batman Adventure stories, you should check them out if you haven't.

>>150958054
The bad news is that the internet has completely atomized families. And parents for the most part do not give a fuck about what their kids are watching online anymore. It is pretty much the norm to slap a tablet or phone in front of your kids as soon as they're born and then leave them to zone out for hours while you take a nap or waste time on your own phone. Kids are growing up watching unfiltered and unhinged media 24/7, and the parents are too busy and too tired to give a shit. Everyone has retreated within their own spaces within spaces, and the resulting apathy creates more hyper-violence and sexualization to be depicted within entertainment as crime rates fall and the birth rate declines.

The good news is that as the country gradually becomes more Hispanic, the moms will no longer care because Mexican culture generally doesn't give a shit about seeing violence and sex in media. If anything, they encourage it among their children. And the Anglo half of the country just does not care anymore about what their kids do.

I work at a school. One of the little white boys is NINE and his favorite show is The Boys. He drew a fucking picture of Homelander on his homework.

>>150958006
It's a joke about how the IRS doesn't actually care where you got your money, they just want you to pay your dues on it.

>>150958226
Homelander is basically Superman so I don't really see the issue with that.

>>150958340
It's really funny how people will say "Homelander is nothing like Superman, why do people like him so much" and then kinda miss that two of Homelander's biggest traits (his selfishness and ego) are something originally found in Superman.

"I can do whatever the fuck I want" is the same emotional undercurrent behind Superman, the difference is that Superman wants to fight tyrants and rich assholes, and Homelander wants to do degenerate shit and bully people. But that core ego/arrogance is the same. An "evil Superman" is still Superman.

>>150958226
>and the resulting apathy creates more hyper-violence and sexualization to be depicted within entertainment
Thats unironically a good thing tho, i hate tablet kids but fuck moralist nannies trying to sanitize media. The edgier content the better i say
>The good news is that as the country gradually becomes more Hispanic
I cant wait for this, i hate the white trash around me and practically every other girl i wanna bone is spic so i cant wait to have mixed kids someday and show them slasher movies as they grow up

>>150958397
Homelander is fun as fuck as a character and im not afraid to admit i would be like him if i had super powers. Either that or titan from megamind

>>150958416
I used to volunteer at an elementary school and seeing Demon Slayer/Naruto/MHA/One Piece drawings made by the kids genuinely surprised me.

I'm still kinda baffled at how Demon Slayer of all things garnered such a large female audience considering the usual crowd throws a fit at seeing women with cleavage or fanservice for boys. But I guess no moms care enough to get upset over that anymore.

>>150947212
>>150947066
They didn't get enough eps of Hugo Strange to play the long game with him and have him get more obsessed with Batman over time to the point of starting to wear the fake Batsuit, etc. I felt like the ep we got was a good introduction but they needed more eps with him to have him begin spiraling in response to thinking he knows who Batman is but everyone laughs at him and he doubts himself due to the fake Batman at the end of the ep

>>150958724
Strange and Bane got done dirty because Timm and Dini didn't really have an interest in the characters, mostly Timm if we're being honest. Timm had a preference for the characters that were his favorites and the ones he grew up on.

>>150950821
>>150954871
ye i don't think anyone at DC liked bane back then

which makes it ironic they're doing a knightfall miniseries rn (iwonder if they're gonna do it IN the btas style?)

>>150958227
But he didn't get them through anything illicit, it was a (seemingly) legit inheritance. It's not like it's a joke about him having to pay taxes on the money he got from robbing banks.

>>150958782
Timm also had a preference for Barbara dating a man thrice her age

>>150958724
>>150958782
The Batman Adventures Hugo Strange storyline was pretty great. Not your typical Hugo Strange scheme but I really enjoyed it. Bane's was pretty forgetable by comparison. It wasn't bad I guess.

>>150949385
>Batman I love you but I might just stay and get power bottomed by this obsidian black panther.
Makes ya think.

>>150946867 (OP)
I don't care how good the show was, if you don't like Robin then you don't get Batman, period.

>>150959274
Best robin is carrie kelly because i wanna fuck her. Was watching TDKR animated adaptation today and she is so cute in that

>>150959274
I don't have a problem with them using their Dick sparingly.

>>150946867 (OP)
I never liked how so many villains turned to evil all just because one guy was a massive dick
>Riddler
>Clayface
>Mr Freeze
>Arguably Two Face
>a few other one off villians
Feels a lot less interesting to me compared to something like Baby Doll snapping and trying to relive the glory days at all costs. When it's just revenge against one person, now a significant part of a major villain is forever tied to some schmuck we'll never even see again

>>150958992
Once you go dick barbs you never go back, at least until the dick barbs retract or whatever they do.

>>150960563
>dick barbs
Bruce Timm sure did a lot of Dick/Barbs retracting after Subzero

>>150960669
Long before that abd in subzero.

>>150957725
The Saint Seiya anime was and improvement over the manga, except in the way they handled ikki getting the phoenix phantom fist.

>>150949677
It was meant to support the new Burton movie originally.

>>150946867 (OP)
TNBA was really bad with mediocre episodes at best and almost every single redesign stank.

>>150962020
I really hated the downgrade in art quality, but it is true (as far as I'm concerned) that the story telling took a hit as well. It's still perfectly watchable, but definitely doesn't hold up as well.

>>150949478
I liked the ending with the snotty rich-kid leader of the Trio sneeringly telling Bats “My parents have plenty of money! I’ll never see the inside of a prison!”
And the final shot is him being put in his cell, terrified out of his mind.

>>150958226
I don't work at a school but I've got some young relatives; they got SHIT on by social media damn hard and parrot every social media insult and phrase possible, regardless of if they know what it means or not.
I've used good vidya to distract them away from shit brain-drain vidya at least (other than garbage-tier Roblox games. RIP) but despite them getting older, they still sometimes get Youtube Shorts and TikTok glued to their faces to shut them up. Would be nice if I lived closer and didn't have a toll bridge on the way there so I can carefully curate the shit they watch, maybe set up a network drive full of not-shit cartoons, but that's not feasible.

>>150946867 (OP)
Gotta take the low road here and say TNBA was stupid and sucked out >50% of the soul of the show. It was still a good show at the end of the day, just nowhere near as good.

>>150960563
they're not sharp or all that hard, like soft teeth on a brush or something

>>150958106
>As long as the girls get their own clubhouse, they'll usually leave the boys alone.
So have you just been asleep for the past 100 years as feminists have destroyed every male only space that exists or are you just retarded?

>>150948326
Bat-Bump

>>150958806
what's your idea for a BTAS crossover with Pepper Ann

>>150956090
Protestants believe any form of entertainment is sinful and would ideally have it all banned, but don't have the power to do that so they settled for making sure it was the least "degenerate" as possible.

>>150946867 (OP)
Give me the Batman now.

>>150963873
pepper ann makes a small cameo as an ignorant bystander who makes a witty remark

>>150946867 (OP)
Did anyone see Batman: The Animated Series before they saw Tokyo Mew Mew?

>>150964912
Did anyone here see Batman: TAS before seeing Mew Mew?

>>150946867 (OP)
I wish The Penguin was better

>>150957725
>I remember loving Scarface in BTAS,
Based, hes one of my favorite comic villains. I love ventriloquist dummy characters like him

>>150946867 (OP)
He doesn't have eye balls. Its just white. What's up with that?

>>150966202
Its a call back to the phantom character which inspired batman

>>150947212
I loved that time when Hugo went through the whole "I have to be Batman, but I don't know, until now" moment. I made me kek when I first read it.

>>150958910
Bless the man, I wish he sticked to Harley also wanting the Batcock as well, I always hated Grayson.

I also would not mind if Raven was included in all that.

>>150947508
Was that the one with the gargantuan nose?

>>150966004
I always wondered why didn't Batman attacked him in a mental way, we know Bruce has mastered Ventriloquism as well, so he could start "attacking" him through his puppet, the first time he could wonder "where did that came from" but as we know Scarface is a separate personality from the ventriloquist to the point he acts on his own, what if at one point his hand moves answering Batman's own ventriloquism at distance, therefore fucking the ventriloquist more than he is.

>>150966004
He's my favoritre batrogue too, and the showrunners for this show clearly loved him as well. Read my Lips is one of the best episodes, Alan Burnett's favorite, and Dini clearly loves the character, as he wrote him into that "Catwalk" ep, gave him several Arkham cameos and keeps putting him in comics. Even The TNBA episode was also prettty much the only rogue that concluded his character arc from TAS and wasn't ruined. They made him feel like he was as classic a rogue as Penguin or Scarecrow. If you grew up with BTAS you like Ventriloquist.

>>150968084
Didn't you watch his TAS episode? That's how Bats defeats him in that one. Twoface and Clayface he also defeated by him exploiting their mental weaknesses, and Calendar Girl by accident too. Or do you mean specifically in the comics.

>>150968758
I wish theyd put ventriloquist in one of the arkham games eventually but i doubt thatll ever happen at this point. It was cool scarface kept popping up tho

>>150968940
Yeah if there was a chance to have a well done adaptation of Arnold and Scarface it was those games. 1 and 2 anyways. Shame, but yeah the cameos were neat.

>>150946867 (OP)
Bruce Timm's artwork.

>>150952990
People love to say "X is like a horror episode!" a lot, but for House and Garden, it's really accurate, that was messed up for a kid's show. The only thing holding it back was the adult form of the monsters looked kind of goofy but still, the concept and imagery were out of a proper horror comic. Ivy's solo episodes were frankly all great. Pershing was awesome performing the character and Dini was awesome at writing her.