Thread 151188079

After the excellent Hazbin Hotel episode, I decided to catch up on Helluva Boss (everything after the Mammon Halloween Special) and... this is bad, right? People don't like this? The IMDB scores are good but it's got to be the most soulless thing I've ever watched. What an unconvincing relationship they built between the sex pest and the guy who never showed any signs of caring about him until the last episodes. What ridiculous melodrama with Olivia to draw the story out. Blitzo's employees, who used to make up the main cast, are never seen interacting. Season 1 was my favorite indie animated show but now... come on, no one actually likes this, do they?

>>151188079 (OP)
Vivzie tried to make a show about irredeemable villain protagonist that went out of its way to try and make the piece of shit main characters look like victims.

>>151188079 (OP)
nobody over 14 (mentally or literally) anyway, I've certainly never met an adult fan of it in person or on this board. I suppose it's probably popular with fujos given the prevalence of gay romance, but even then that gay romance is terribly written. I can't say I know any fujos personally either, so maybe they just really have zero standards as long as the boys kiss on screen?

>>151188079 (OP)
I would say season 1 of HB is well liked, but season 2 onward went full gay melodrama and nobody like that

still Moxie's mafia wedding episode was pretty good

>>151188079 (OP)
Wait which excellent hazbin hotel episode? S2 ep 1 and 2 were fine but 3 and 4 are so bad they basically confirm vivzie got lucky with banger songs carrying S1 and has no idea how to basically write a scene or move a plot along naturally

The difference in quality between HH and HB is staggering. HB is pure shit at this point.

>>151188079 (OP)
It sucks that you choose to be such a whiny loser all your life.

>>151188079 (OP)
News flash, anon, there are people in the world with zero taste. That's how the IMDB scores got where they are.

>>151188079 (OP)
mastermind was decent but the last episode its legit a lost cause
>muh abortion storyline
lmao

>>151188079 (OP)
I think I realise what the problem with HB is.
In HH, you want to root for the hotel. Because, after all, redemption is overall portrayed as a good thing.
In HB you're rooting for the assassins that are willing to kill children, yeah it's hard to be on their side, especially since the "villains" are basically the same but more "problematic".

>>151188203
>nobody over 14
Stopped reading, teenager detected.

>>151188079 (OP)
No, not really. A few fans are still a little invested in their favorite characters, but most discussion I see is riddled with complaints about the bad writing. Some hate watch, some watch so that they can tear it down, some are along because of sunk cost and they want to see where it goes, and after all that you get a few people who own up to it being a guilty pleasure. But I rarely see anybody passing it off as good aside from deranged fujos with general shit taste.

>>151188945
Both are supposed to represent the "underdogs", with HH being the sinners who everyone clearly gave up on except one person who genuinely wants to give them the chance no one else would and HB being the working class shmucks trying to climb over the corpses of a whole pseudo-gentry full of spiteful dicks who are so mired in their crab-bucket mentality that they're willing to drag the living into hell with them out of revenge. Both causes are portrayed as "hopeless" to a degree, but one is a more conventional feel-good tale while the other is more like a sitcom.

At least, that's how they were in premise. Turning those into a war against heaven and a toxic gay romance is pretty far from an "underdog" tale imo, but fans want what they want.

>>151188854
>seeked
For fucks sake

>>151188945
Yeah the two series have a major tonal clash with each other. It could work if it ends up being a big source of conflict when the official crossover happens, but from what I've seen they want the casts of the two series to be fast friends instead which is really stupid. Especially Charlie and Blitz. Charlie should hate Blitz for killing living humans and making her redemption plan harder while Blitz should hate Charlie for being another royal who doesn't care about imps.

>>151188987
I think you severely misunderstood my point, anon...

>>151188203
i would say i enjoy stolitz but you would call be mentally below 14 so there is no point

>>151189007
sake
seeken
sook
nothing sounds right

>>151189295
It’s sought. The past tense of seek is sought.

I know you’re probably pulling my leg, but I’m just so sad that there really are people who can’t figure out the word sought.

>>151188079 (OP)
>After the excellent Hazbin Hotel episode
>excellent
Wtf are you on my man

>>151189324
I only slightly wanted to kill myself during the singing segments this season.

>>151189365
And not the endless and VERY awkward exposition ? You have a stronger stomach for this shit than I am.

>>151189123
No, no, I got it, you tried to sound like a mature adult and failed miserably.

>>151188079 (OP)
The stoliz shit basically is only NOW getting interesting now that they're even a real relationship, before then whenever an episode was taken up by them, unless the action and other characters were interesting, it falls apart which thankfully the show having multiple characters helps that, but good god when an episode is just Stolitz does it suffer. I have a group who watches this series and even though we like it, we can still absolutely dog on the obviously flawed parts of it.

Hazbin is forced to be more tight knit but S1 was confirmed to have actually been rushed while S2 is supposedly more fine tuned for the episode count. Arguably, I think Hazbin is just better paced (ironically) than Helluva.

>>151188079 (OP)
To be fair, the shows do have a core audience of retards that don’t realize that Charlie and Lute could both be right.

>>151190130
The show itself isn't even making statements like this, so far, Charlie's redemption isn't morally depth-filled other than them teasing in the latest episodes that redemption might not give a shit how genuinely BAD a person can be, just if they overcome the sin they personally felt damned them to Hell.
It doesn't mean inherently they'd become a better person. Just that there's some objective goal post to strive for in clearing up before you can be sent up to Heaven free of charge.

>>151190183
I wasn’t arguing about morality.
I mean objectively. Since Charlie is necessarily for Sinners to be protected in hell and separated from their environment. And Lute is necessary for Heaven to remain as the destination these souls are supposed to reside in.

And objectively, Lute will need what Pentious, Vox, and other former sinners bring to the table in order to handle someone like Eve/Roo when she eventually loses her patience. That character is the embodiment of the unforgiven sinner who must be destroyed.

>>151188079 (OP)
>>151188866
This
HB is Viv venting her californian femoid rage, HH was taken from her fat hands and is objectively better off for it (even if HH still isn't high art)

>>151190377
>HH was taken from her fat hands
I'm out of the loop, what happened exactly?

>>151190482
Viv gotten fat from eating a lot and so her hands became fatter. Giving her fat hands.

>>151190522
I already know about her guest appearance on My 600lb Life. But the show was taken from her?

>>151188945
Yeah that’s exactly it.
Like I’m supposed to feel sorry and care for Blitzo since he’s the MC, but the fact is he’s such an unlikable asshole that people literally throw a “hate Blitzo” party yearly because he’s hurt so many people emotionally with his bullshit, not to mention he’s A FUCKING MURDERER.

>>151190576
I’m always so confused on why people hate Lute and Adam so much when Sinners are literally ordering Blitzo to kill humans on earth to make them suffer their pain (most of the time).

>>151188945
I think it's more simple than that, HH is a story driven show with a wider cast. HB is an episodic show with the cast and initial premise being set aside to focus on the main couple.

No one above the age of fifteen should be watching any of the stuff mentioned in this thread.

>>151190634
Including you?

>>151190103
>The stoliz shit basically is only NOW getting interesting
Yeah pretty much. The road to get to this point has been retarded but I feel like that doesn't invalidate the potential where we are at now that the big drama between Stolas and Blitzo is mostly dealt with. And that excites me, at least it can't be worse than their journey from the first season to the second.

>>151190598
Exterminations are redundant just fundamentally.

I'm not in the camp that's seeing the fact they've only been going on for 7 years as a means to cop out shit like how Sera was okay with this because 7 years of still presumably millions or enough souls for Overlords to worry about 16% going.
No, I'm seeing it as even more proof that someone was just capitalizing off Adam, Lute, and anyone else with a hateboner for people who are already dying countless deaths on the daily or even worse, and yet.. In their rage decide to actually spare them that continued fate.. Which honestly would be funny irony for how hate filled they are that they grant possibly the best thing for these people and end their eternal damnation.
Of course though, the exterminations are built on lies, and false pretenses, I seriously doubt an over population issue cropped up in the last 7 years for a place that's existed for centuries beforehand.
Nothing about exterminations, exorcists, or Lute and Adam is justifiable anymore, that's really why no one likes Lute and Adam, Lute is FAR more interesting, but holy fuck their premises just don't have any logistical sense in universe anymore.

>>151190576
>he’s A FUCKING MURDERER.
He was willing to kill an entire family and their baby if he didn't catch the homo feels from his faggot rooster. Also, Moxxie is a complete piece of shit for wanting to go through with it anyway.

They all deserve to suffer.

>>151190716
Nah. Adam and Lute still make sense because the majority of people in Hell will stay evil no matter what, including those Adam deeply cares about, Eve.

Jesus didn’t go, “oh I redeemed Noah, that must mean I can spare the earth from death”. He took Noah and killed everyone else.

>>151188079 (OP)
I like HH but I never liked HB. It's very different even though it's made by the same people.

>>151190770
It's kicking already dead people while they're dead, and if anything, granting them a release some of them genuinely don't deserve.
Charlie has not once in the entire series or any official media says she wanted to change Hell and how it works, she wants to give those that WANT to change a chance to pursue that.
Charlie is so painfully naive and yet, it's actually a lot more grounded and respectable than the absolute blind hateboner Adam, his exorcists, and Lute (though not so much post Adam's death) have that they'll gladly erase the same filth from eternal suffering just so they can feel better about their own pathetic existences.

It's rather, Charlie absolutely has a point against wanting the exterminations out of the way, she just doesn't attack the very valid point, they literally serve ZERO actual purpose especially with how many holes you can now poke into the extermination process as a whole now.
Sinners would not have any means of hurting anyone heavenly without exorcists leaving their weapons.
Sinners would not have nearly as much power and opportunity to rise against Heaven without exorcists constantly causing bloodshed and war.
Sinners would not have ANY sway over heaven even with a numbers advantage because before Adam fucked it all up, anyone that was heavenly could be genuinely mistaken to be untouchable because they can't be killed.

It's literally all the exorcists fault for even giving sinners an opportunity to POTENTIALLY rise against them like this.
Nah, fuck everything Adam (again, Lute honestly now has justifiable reasons to be mad) stood for.

>>151190716
The whole 7 years of exterminations thing makes absolutely no sense, everything prior has been painting them as having been going on for centuries.

>>151190957
I agree, some things REALLY do not line up with how characters spoke about it and the significance it gets treated with.
If Adam (if the fact it was just him that offered the plan initially and it stays this way like what Welcome to Heaven suggests), only brought this up 7 years ago, what the fuck was he doing before then? Just banging and being sinful in Heaven?

I don't necessarily think it's a bad choice, but we definitely cannot just leave it as a minor detail for Katie Killjoy of all characters to just drop on us in the middle of completely irrelevant conversation and stop there, that's something that needs immediate followup.

>>151191122
Yeah like Hell has been around for 10k years but it’s only NOW that they apparently are a threat and need a yearly culling?
It makes no sense, I was half expecting Viv to make a tweet about it saying it was a lie like how she did with Satan’s claim of ruling before Lucifer showed up.

>>151190837
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIYt5lcq3A&list=RDxIIYt5lcq3A&start_radio=1
Never surrender Charlie.

>>151191182
It's the consequence of turning it into just more Lilith or whoever the fuck is messing around from 7 years ago stocks.
It's not entirely impossible, but it recontextualizes in a way that demands follow up but the show wants to just drop the mic and leave without picking it up like what saying Husk was an overlord formerly means for the whole series, especially with the pilot era in mind.

>>151190837
Sinners never needed angelic weapons to kill Angels. That’s a new development. And Sinners are resources for Eve/Roo to use and has used in the past.

>>151191182
>>151191269
Notice that sinners from the 1800s-2000s are the average, implying that the sinners before them died trying to rebel against heaven.

>>151191364
We have no confirmed kills of any angelic presence before Carmilla's flashback and if you want to argue further, Stolas' attempted assassination even if Goetians aren't angelic, requiring the same weaponry is highly suspect.
It IS a new development, but one that has no reason not to be trusted or doubted.
You aren't going to stop Hell and thus Roo/Eve from existing. Why you'd stoke the flames that even your average sinner could kill one of your tops like that is beyond braindamaged, but it was Adam we're talking about here.

>>151191430
You assume that Adam isn’t aware of the bigger picture that Sera can’t see, when Eve is 100% playing the big evil mastermind role.

Here’s the truth about redemption. Pentious is redeemed because Adam paid the fee for him and other redemptive sinners. It will ultimately lead to Eve’s/Roo’s destruction. HH Lucifer even made his rituals requiring the sacrifice of lambs, since that is an honor to God to please his divine wrath.

>>151188079 (OP)
>After the excellent Hazbin Hotel episode
Were you watching the episode under the effects of anesthesia or something?

The thing with Helluvah Boss is that it slowly got engulfed into the same premise Hazbin Hotel fell victim of; musical brand first, story and plot mixed through the laundry piles with missing socks. There's not much science to it, the show itself can't even manage to take its story seriously without Disney-ifying it to a degree and making it safe edgy for the normies.

>>151188079 (OP)
>excellent Hazbin Hotel episode

>>151194022
>Pilot: No Songs
>Episode 1: No Songs
>Episode 2: Two songs
>Episode 3: One Song
>Episode 4: One Song
>Epsiode 5: One Song
>Episode 6: One/Two Songs
>Episode 7: Two Songs
>Episode 8: One Song

>>151189365
I'm disappointed that you didn't have the balls to do it. Coward. :-(

>>151194144
Not everybody wants to end up like your father after witnessing your birth.

>>151194152
Hey fuck you, my mom is a great sow.

>>151188079 (OP)
helluva boss is better. the hatred towards it comes from the fact that people got tricked into watching/enjoying parts of a literal gay musical show with action and comedy. this was always the direction HB was gonna go since the development of like, episode two. the only reason people dont feel as tricked is three parts.

1) hazbin introduced all the elements of the show at once. helluva introduced these elements episode by episode, and had it all climactically come together in the two finally episodes of season 1. since that time, all of those elements have been present consistently in the show.

2) the main romance is two men and much less appealing to the people on this board who prefer straight or lesbian couples. there are more of that in hazbin - though I like M+m much more than most.

3) media literacy is dead and/or people will ignore it to feel smart or make excuses for the characters they want to have sex with

>>151188239
I left the franchise.
How bad did Hazbin get? What's the reception?

>>151188079 (OP)
HB feels like it's dead in the water
What is season 3 even going to be about? Stolas and shitzo living together like a married couple?

>>151194189
>media literacy is dead

why do people always like defending HH/HB by proclaiming people can't consume media properly when HH/HB is one of those shows where if you're a beginner to the show, then that means most of the shit plot will mean nothing to you and fly past your head just because the shows expect you to already have been a fan of her works MUCH before the actual shows while showcasing just how much the characters hate each others' guts and how much they say profanities more than a 13-year-old.

>>151190011
His point is that he believes that the only people who like this stuff are under 14 or want to be under 14.
It's not a nice thing to say but i understand what he's saying.

>>151188945
I dunno, /co/ mostly seems to be rooting for Adam because 1. "muh accurate judeo-christian mythology is totally legit in this blatantly deviantart sparkledog show running purely on vibes and Viv's broadway fetish, trust the plan" and 2. /co/'s daddy issues.

>>151189365
I actually tried to swallow my tongue a few times. Disappointed I can confirm it does not work. Gravity annoys me because it feels like half of a tolerable song and then it just ends.

>>151190716
Okay so hear me out.
The fundamental problem with the Exterminations is that THEY DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH. If Heaven won the war with Hell at all, why didn't they just execute the Deadly Sins, the Goetia and all the demons who actually matter? Overlords are ultimately just middle managers. Shit like Blitzo is ultimately laid at the feet of the the Sins and other "real" demons who hold actual power in Hell (even if Stolas is doing everything in his power to look weaker than fucking Joblastor at his lowest).

They shouldn't be sending down murder-bitches to stab random people in Hell, they should make an example of the leaders and maybe even an entire layer or two with the resources they have. Judging by Lucifer's reaction, if the ACTUALLY powerful angels in Heaven got involved they'd make the exterminations look like a coughing baby next to a nuke.

>>151190837
I thought that Adam started the war on hell because lucifer led Cain into temptation to murder Abel. Such a pain of one's own son murdering their other son is something that no one would have known before and it would be something Adam would not be able to comprehend and therefore he'd slaughter sinners and put lucifer in distress to get him to realize just how bad he is to humans but lucifer was always too prideful to admit what he did to Adam's family was wrong.
Turns out i'm a better writer than Vivzie because if it all started only seven years ago then wow, what was she thinking?
Although oddly enough the number seven has a lot of importance in Christianity starting from the creation of the Earth when God rested on the seventh day to the end of the earth being the seven year tribulation.
Seven is said to be God's favorite number. It's the number that appears most in the bible and is one of the most important number in the bible alongside three.

>>151191430
But we do, however, have a confirmed instance of a large rock hurting an angel badly enough it ripped off her arm. Who cares if you can or can't kill angels if you can render them into quadruple amputees?

>>151194328
Stella and Striker getting exposed.

>>151194137
Now compare that to season 2

>>151194560
What would the point be? The audience already knows
Hell at large isn't going to care that they were conspiring to kill a guy who was renting out his royal grimoire in exchange for imp cum

>>151194566
>Episode 1: One Song
>Episode 2: No song
>Episode 3: One Song
>Episode 4: One Song
>Epsiode 5: One Song
>Episode 6: One Song
>Episode 7: Two Songs
>Episode 8: Didn’t watch

>>151194617
Because it would baffle Blitzo and Stolas a ton
>Wait you fu-

>>151194617
This. It's fucking Hell. Look at how sinners and overlords go at it in Hazbin, the only person astonished people are there for murder is Charlie. The reaction is probably just going go be variations of "better luck next time!"

>>151194617
>>151194672
He means the kind Blitzo and Stolas have

>Hazbin Hotel establishes the pre-series as an alternate continuity with none of the Helluva lore baggage attached to it at all, and has a "crossover" with it
>Series!Alastor picks up on Pliot!Alastor's dropped quirks, likes them, and adopts them
>Series!Charlie sees that Pilot!Charlie has her head on slightly straighter, both learn some of what works and what doesn't
>The Angel Dusts screw each other
Would this salvage the series?

>>151194780
>Vivzie
>writing MULTIVERSE SHIT
No.

People here were sucking episode 3 and 4 off 2 days ago when they came out, now they suddenly hate them
Those were two excellent episodes, I won't be gaslighted by you motherfuckers

>war with heaven and vox's uprising
>you wouldn't even know hellborn exist unless you watch HB
>zero indication that the goetia or the other rings exist
>charlie thinks one murder is awful
>blitzo casually murders hundreds for chump change
Its impossible to reconcile HH and HB taking place in the same world

>>151194953
Hey fuck you buddy, I've hated this show since the pilot.

>>151195066
I'm not your buddy nigga
I've loved this season so far

>>151195127
Fuck you, buddy. This show is fundamentally ass.

>>151195135
No fuck you buddy, this show is NOT fundamentally ass
Is just my cup of tea and I like it

>>151195182
You're a disgusting subhuman piece of shit, but that's par the course for /co/ the board that unironically enjoyed Homestuck at one point.

The pilot was a ruse. The premise interested me and then it rapidly spiraled into imp-say-gay-bird drama real fast. The only thing it has now is M&M and goth furry I-can-fix-her-with-my-dick (since the original pilot is non-canon she's confirmed Syphilis free)

Oh, I never watched the show, but collect lewds of Stella without even knowing what she sounds like.

>>151195342
Her voice is awful but in a way that is comically fitting

>>151194349
I knew literally nothing about the vivzieverse had never even seen the initial pilots for either show before watching them. most of its concepts and ideas for expressions come straight from Disney and vogler. It's designed to be readable. again you're telling on yourself....

>>151195342
ew

>>151192612
>I am a contrarian the post

>>151195357
> Her voice is awful
I sadly disagree

>>151195318
Meanwhile I am utterly unsurprised by everything that has transpired, this is all exactly what I expected judging from the designs and character interactions from the pilot.

>>151194953
most of /Co just hates something only AFTER they loved it, but then realize they aren't as special and unique as they think they are. Such is the nature of the contrarian.

>>151195217
Suck my fucking dick nigger my taste is flawless you're the only stupid one here

>>151195449
You'd fuck your uncle!

>>151195462
You'd fuck your uncle!

>>151195477
Shut your fucking face, uncle fucker.
You're a cocksucking ass licking uncle fucker.
You're an uncle fucker, yes it's true.
Nobody fucks uncles quite like you.

>>151195491
Shut your fucking face, uncle fucker
You're the one that fucked your uncle, uncle fucker
You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn
You just fuck your uncle all day long

>>151195491
Shut your fucking face, uncle fucker.
You're the one that fucked your uncle, uncle fucker.
You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn, you just fuck your uncle all day long.

>>151195435
It’s a very satanic heart.

>>151188079 (OP)
The drama in helluva is just annoying is insane how much actual demons can be Soo insanely dramatic in comparison to real humans

Wait is the new season good? All Ive seen is a dumb black serial killer get shot.

>>151195545
The new season of helluva hasn't come out yet

>>151195545
It's good if you like charlie, angels, and snakes and hate deer

>>151195545
It's more or less the same level of quality as the first season. Charlie is more actively stupid but I'd argue this in line with her overall level of competence in S1, just having more balls to juggle and inexplicably not simply asking her dad (strongest being in all of Hell by the way) to solve literally every major problem in her life not directly related to redeeming sinners. So I personally find it utterly abhorrent, but if you liked S1 you'll like this shit.

The best thing I can say about it is that as the other anon said, the songs make me want to kill myself slightly less.

I live in japan and made friends with a cute girl from work over this show. we had fun talking about the music and drama of it, the animation, and fan works. for this reason alone, I will love helluva boss. the hate for this show is people mad at it for betraying what in their eyes it *should* be, rather than what it actually was from the start.

I did appreciate that vivzie made fun of both sides of this fight on hazbin tho

>>151194328
set up is there for stolas to come to terms with understanding how privileged he actually was, and making up for his extremely stupid and irresponsible choices that endangered blitz and ostracized his daughter.

m+m are obviously approaching the issue with the baby. we know from unhappy campers and Ghostbusters (even harvest moon a bit) that millie wants to be seen and valued as an individual and feels worried that she will always be seen as lesser due to her race and gender. her job is the thing that gives her purpose and validated but having a baby would get in the way of her being able to do that. also moxxies dad - moxxie has a lot of unresolved issues there.

blitz needs to repair the relationship with stolas and his sister, confront his mom and dad stuff.

with thr sins, Satan needs to be confronted about how hes basically the ruler of hell in all but name because lucifer is completely irresponsible and would rather make ducks then do his job.

these are just the ones off the dome, but theres a lot more.

>>151195844
>more relationship drama
yippee...

What if Charlie ends up taking over the exterminators and converts them into helpers who go down to hell to help sinners find salvation?
They'd be called Charlie's Angels.

>>151195342
hiLAAAAAAArious

The Blitzo and Stolas "romance" should've died at the end of season 1 after both of them were humiliated and angry.

>>151194328
It’s gonna be a class struggle season. Stolas coming to terms with poverty and learning how privileged he was, meanwhile Blitz is famous now and has a million people emailing his business, he’s about to become a rich public figure and understand it isn’t all rainbows and butterflies.

>>151196365
Blitzo should have died from alcohol poisoning in season 1

>>151196614
Charlie is like 6'6
that bitch must be huge

>>151194137
The pilot had a song. The Immediate Murder Professionals theme.

>>151196151
when you boil down to it "relationship drama" is at the base of all narratives. again, what do you want exactly? just people who say shit and kill? you can watch other shows if you want that. also didnt address the sins plotline

>>151194137
Episode 1 opens with a goddamn song, the kindergarten class singing.

>>151194560
I think with striker it probably will be more about why he is the eay he is. hes only HALF imp, remember? my money is on his other half being goetia.

also I think him and Stella will have sex. it will be glorious.

>>151196632
THAT'S A HUGE BITCH!

>>151196709
> also I think him and Stella will have sex. it will be glorious.
It will reference guts and casca.

>>151194328
I'm curious to see the conclusion of Stella's character, like obviously Stolas and Blitzo are going to have a happy ending so she needs to be out of the picture in some way.
Probably Octavia standing up to her for hurting her dad cause I can't imagine Stolas being shown hurting a woman

>>151198867
Stella and Striker have massive sexual-based pstd going on with them. And they project it on Stolas as their abusers look like him.

>>151188079 (OP)

This show is highly satanic because DEMONS and teaches children to be gay trannysexualised prostitutes