Thread 76270076

>Popularizes Mediterranean diet, by far the most popular and successful diet for weight loss
>Saves millions of lives with his advice
>lives to 100 years old by practicing what he preaches
>Considered the antichrist by ketolards decades later because he told them to stop eating so much bacon every day

>>76270076 (OP)
Any diet is better than regular processed slop, so he got lucky.

>>76270076 (OP)
>Disproves CICO but gets worshipped as the founder of CICO
>Invents the cholesterol myth
>Ignores the actually healthy, actually Mediterranean diet and substitutes his own headcanon
>Highly controversial among scientists and experts, many call him a giant fraud
>Makes a big study that disagrees with his preconceived notions
>Doesn't publish it because it didn't have the correct results
>Invents the whole BMI fiasco
All in all, he's the reason that nutritional sciences suck so hard until this day. As always, for everything invented outside of Europe, "Antichrist" is not a completely incorrect name. And to add insult to injury, his later years were plagues by several strokes.

>>76270094
>t. ketolard

>>76270094
>Ignores the actually healthy, actually Mediterranean
?

>>76270076 (OP)
Mediteranean diet means nothing at all as every part/region of mediteranean countries has different cuisines and diets
It's avocado toast tier snake oil, the embodiment of a buzzword

>>76270117
>Ignores the actually healthy,
He ignores the actually healthy,
>actually Mediterranean
and actually Mediterranean cuisine and modified due to his own retarded whims and made it not healthy and not Mediterranean.

>>76270126
Avocado is amazing. Drop the toast.

>>76270111
Not at all.

>>76270117
L2 English?

>>76270131
Correct. Imagine claiming Italians eat dark bread and lots of dairy while avoiding white flour and meat. To this day, I cannot understand how Keys wasn't laughed out of the field immediately. It's like he enever left the US, but he apparently lived in Italy even, so the only explanation is that he was a compulsive liar. Which is not implausible, consideirng he was a scientist.

>>76270147
Rye and dairy is better than white flour though. But keep the meat too.

>>76270094
>Whining about bmi
Fat detected. Let me guess, you have over 30 BMI but "it's mostly muscle."

The biggest argument against paleo/keto/carnivore is how chubby or fat they all look (unless they're doing roids). Inflamed, puffy red skin, belly fat which they can't get rid of despite constant fasting. They're constantly winded due to not doing any cardio. They just look horribly unhealthy.

>>76270161
I have never seen a lean athlete or bodybuilder seriously complain about BMI beyond just joking that they are technically overweight. Fatass lifters are apoplectic about it lol

>>76270186
saturated fat is actually bad for you and has a demonstrated mechanism of action (penetrating endothelium). Lot of coping otherwise

>>76270186
Is that really how they seem online? I only know one carnivore in real life and he's very thin and not bloated. He's a total dyel though.
I myself am pretty low carb but I believe in the necessity of healthy greens and some amount of carbs. I'm pretty thin.

>>76270200
Seed oils are much worse.

>>76270131
no clue what the actually healthy mediterranean diet is supposed to be?
how about you describe it in detail

>>76270209
>seed oils
now what part of seed oils is supposedly much worse?

>>76270209
I don’t think they are great, but using butter instead of canola oil isn’t going to make you healthier.

>>76270126
>Mediteranean diet means nothing at all as every part/region of mediteranean countries has different cuisines and diets
What we refer to as 'mediterranean diet' was originally modeled after Crete, Greece and southern Italy - particularly Calabria. It specifically was even then separate from mediterranean cuisine, which includes all kinds of crap. It has since then also been updated, and no longer even resembles Cretan/Calabrian cuisine that much, which themselves have become less healthy than they were in the 70s.
'Mediterranean diet' is a construction that just loosely pays resemblance to what people in the mediterranean actually ate some five decades ago.

>>76270094
I'll take you all more seriously once ketolards start living past 100.

>>76270218
Very high in omega6. We get that way too much.
ROS. Have fun with the DNA damage.
>>76270220
It definitely is

>>76270204
"Cardio kills gains" has always been a meme in the fitness community, but a lot of lifters are taking it too far and now claiming cardio is literally unhealthy. So now you have influencers moving as little as possible so their cardio health is shit and they constantly sound out of breath while talking despite looking healthy on the surface. This has a huge overlap with the keto community since it's well known that keto makes cardio more difficult. (While you can run on keto it takes a massive adjustment period and is still wildly unpopular in the running community, most people are doing high carb still.) So it comes off as a rationalization, if cardio is hard to do on keto then cardio must be unhealthy.

>>76270238
What should I use to cook then? Lard and butter?

>>76270253
In the good old days maccas used beef tallow to do their fries so why not.
Coconut oil is probably best plant based option.

>>76270215
I don't know, I was just explaining the intention of that poster.
A diet of meat and fish and some dairy, plenty of vegetables and olive oil, and some lightly processed carbs on top is pretty much the ideal diet. Combine that with intermittent fasting to insure your blood sugar comes down, you burn some of your own fat, and your gut has time to rest, and you're absolutely golden.

>>76270253
>>76270271
Extra virgin olive oil also for cooking, I meant coconut oil more for frying.

>>76270291
The trick with vegetables is variety, not the macronutrients. Eat all kinds to make sure your gut biome is happy.

>>76270094
>>Ignores the actually healthy, actually Mediterranean diet and substitutes his own headcanon
All Americans do that. I remind you of the /fit/fags who claim Italians naturally eat keto and pasta/pizza are a conspiracy theory.

>>76270157
The only country if the world that eats really a lot of whole grain products is Germany, and artifact from WW2 where wheat got scarce due to political isolation.

Pic related, the greener, the more whole grain is consumed. As you can see it's not even close.

>>76270349
Also, German life expectancy is pretty bad for a western first world nation.

>>76270349
Yes, but wheat, even whole wheat, is not that great. It's been bred for resilience, yield and how well it rises cakes.
Rye, spelt, emmer and other less refined grains are healthier.

>>76270291
>A diet of meat and fish and some dairy, plenty of vegetables and olive oil, and some lightly processed carbs on top is pretty much the ideal diet
Except that's not the actual med diet.
Med diet: Lots of refined carbs, oilve oil and alcohol, much fish, less meat (And often in the form of hams and sausages), much cheese, not as many vegetables and herbs as people commonly believe, daily sweets (Most meds have a sweet breakfast instead of a hearty one), lots of coffee.

Basically, the opposite of what is considered healthy nowadays.

>>76270357
Cope.
In Germany, "whole grain" usually means rye, spelt and other such grains. It's rarely wheat.

t. German

>>76270362
I wasn't saying mediterranean food is like that. Like I said, I was just irritated by how that one guy didn't seem to understand english so I explained the intention.

>>76270366
And? Just because Germans kill themselves early for some reason, isn't a reason to glorify highly processed white wheat. Could be many many other reasons.

>>76270076 (OP)
>Mediterranean diet
define it

>>76270157
>Rye and dairy is better than white flour though.
Your baseless, idiotic claims aside, that wasn't the point at all, Mr American reading comprehension.

>>76270161
>Fat detected. Let me guess, you have over 30 BMI but "it's mostly muscle."
Whining? But anyway, I am normal BMI even after the 1998 changes that created the obesity epidemic overnight. Sorry, better replace your crystal ball.

>>76270215
>how about you describe it in detail
The Mediterranean has a lot of different diets, none of them even remotely similar to what Keys claimed. They all eat a lot of white flour and that's it with the similarities, I guess.

>>76270237
>What we refer to as 'mediterranean diet' was originally modeled after Crete, Greece and southern Italy - particularly Calabria
Not at all.

>'Mediterranean diet' is a construction that just loosely pays resemblance to what people in the mediterranean actually ate some five decades ago.
No, it's completely American headcanon, as usual. You guys just can't help yourselves when it comes to dietetics.

>I'll take you all more seriously once ketolards start living past 100.
Why do you claim I'm advocating for keto? Keto is bullshit, makes you dumb and blind. Oh, and fat too, ofc.

>>76270746
There are problems with BMI, however it's because the BMI scale doesn't account for the skinnyfat epidemic. It's why the BMI for Asians was lowered to 23.5, and there's new evidence that whites and blacks should aim for lower than 25 too unless they're consistently working out. So the BMI scale actually underestimates that amount of obese people, not overestimates.

Here's a ranking of popular diets by the AHA.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001146

Tier 1 in green scored the highest. Tier 4 in red scored the lowest.
100% - Dash diet/Nordic diet (Tier 1)
92% - Pescatarian diet (Tier 1)
89% - Mediterranean diet (Tier 1)
86% - Vegetarian diet (Lacto, ovo, ovo-lacto) (Tier 1)
78% - Vegan diet (Tier 2)
78% - Low-fat diet (TLC diet, Volumetrics) (Tier 2)
72% - Oil-free very low fat (Esselstyn, McDougall, Pritikin) (Tier 3)
64% - Low carb (South Beach, Zone diet) (Tier 3)
53% - Paleo (Tier 4)
31% - Keto (including Atkins) (Tier 4)

>>76270238
Why do you point to mechanistic speculation when we have human trials that show the opposite of what you're saying?

>>76270076 (OP)
Obligatory

>>76270995
Why should I care what the AHA has to say?

>>76271149
You just answered your own question lol

>>76270076 (OP)
He stole the lipid hypothesis that demonised cholesterol from John Goffman because he only read half of the paper he put out on the associations between blood chemistry and diet.
He later had Goffman hounded out of biomed research.

I spiton his grave.

>>76271283
Thanks for proving the point lol

>>76271291
the point that people like you encourage people to do bad habits because you're either a pussy who feels bad when people point out that you're retarded or you're outright malicious and trying to hurt others?

>>76270094


just out of curiosity, can you post a pic of your body?


i have a hunch,.....

>>76270126


FUCKING MORON. MEDITERRANEAN IS A SMALL PART OF EUROPE. THEIR EATING PATTERNS ARE WELL DOCUMENTED AND KNOWN...AND THEY ALSO HAVE TTHE MOST BLUE ZONES....SO MAYBE..JUST MAYBE....

NAH, IT'S GENETICS....

MY DAD SMOKES AND RINKS LIKE A MOTHER FUCK, HAD A HEART ATTACK AND THEY TOLD HE WOULD BE DEAD IN 10 YEARS SO HE RAMPED UP HIS DEBAUCHERY AND SAID HE WILL ENJOY HIS LIFE..THAT WAS 30 YEARS AGO. STILL ALIVE, STILL A PEDO, STILL LIVING LIKE SHIT

BTW ..HE'S A MED FAG..FROM CRETE

>>76270076 (OP)
>when asked at age 100 if his diet contributed to his long life he responded
>maybe, but no proof

>>76271279
>John Goffman


YOU REALIZE THAT BOTH THEIR DIETARY RECOMMENDATIONS ARE THE SAME HUH FATSO?

LOTS OF FRUITS, LOTS OF VEGGIES, MODERATE LEAN PROTEIN AND LOW SAT FAT AND CHOLESTEROL.

FUCING MORON.

>>76271359
>>76271291

>>76271359
So just so we're clear, you think that telling people to go outside is a bad habit?

>>76271359
So just so we're clear, you think that encouraging people not to argue aggressively about what they eat and instead go outdoors is a "bad habit"?

>>76271149
We do not have human trials that show highly processed seed oils are good, or whatever the fuck you're implying.
The shitty studies that were done long ago have long since been discredited. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saturated fats.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9794145/

>>76271574


>Nina Teicholz

JOURNALIST JEW WHO IS MARRIES TO A JEW WHO OWNS AND OPERATES A "KETO FAT" DIETARY COMPANY.
YEP..IM TRUSTING HER WORK...

I AM SURER THOSE "STUDIES" ARE 100% NON JEWED.....

>>76270094
>giant fraud
His “7 nations” study was originally 21 nations, but he cut out 2/3rds of the data because it didn’t fit his hypothesis. He is certainly a huge fraud.
>>76270076 (OP)
>gets paid a shitload of money to shill “science” that exonerates “food” companies that make absurd amounts of money
>lives to be old
Yeah, that’s because rich people have low stress, retard and if you think rich people follow the diet advice that they shill then you are even more retarded. The only one that did was Steve Jobs and that’s why he died in his 50s.
>>76270092
Ancel keys didn’t tell you to stay away from processed slop. He told you to replace animal fats with seed oils which was a terrible idea.
>>76270111
He blamed heart disease on saturated fat which humans have been eating since they became humans during a time when most people smoked cigarettes all fucking day and had heart disease because they smoked cigarettes all day. Keto or not you should hate ancel keys because of how wrong he was and how much it has hurt us.

>>76271616
>Ancel keys didn’t tell you to stay away from processed slop. He told you to replace animal fats with seed oils which was a terrible idea.


YES YOU DID YOU FUCKING MORON. HE HAS A BOOK THAT CLEARLY DETAILS HIS DIET PIGGY. IT'S HIGH VEG FRUIT WHOLE GRAINS AND SOME LEAN MEAT.

>>76270161
if you are over 30 bmi, it actually doesn't matter if that is 100% muscle, as all that muscle still relaxes completely when you sleep and literally suffocates you.

It's also harder on the heart to pump that much blood all the time.

If you lift, you have the privilege of being classified as overweight, a 26-28 bmi is perfectly healthy for people that resistance train.

30 bmi and over, and you are overweight even if you are fit, it's just too hard on the organs that matter.

>>76271601
>shilling for seed oils
And you're calling others jews...

>>76271628
You're being very incoherent. Calm down sperg.

>>76270076 (OP)
also not jewish, fully european ancestry
high IQ
noble career
no scandals
literally never had a heart attack
>>76270094
unreal cope
>>76270126
good point
his "mediterranean" diet was basically just limiting saturated fat intake as much as possible

>>76270076 (OP)
His actual studies were very in-depth
Its a shame no one ever actually read his book

>>76271574
Notice how all of these retarded public figures that shill for saturated fat are always journalists or chiropractors? There's barely any real doctors or nutritionists that advocate low carb high fat, Ken Berry WAS a medical doctor but he lost his medical license for giving his patients HIV and then burned down his clinic to hide the evidence.

>>76272026
How about you read some of the referenced articles and studies, like
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28864332/
>Interpretation: High carbohydrate intake was associated with higher risk of total mortality, whereas total fat and individual types of fat were related to lower total mortality. Total fat and types of fat were not associated with cardiovascular disease, myocardial infarction, or cardiovascular disease mortality, whereas saturated fat had an inverse association with stroke. Global dietary guidelines should be reconsidered in light of these findings.