whether by comparing yourself with friends or relatives who started before you but whom you have now surpassed, or the reverse, or any other similar stories? From your experience, what role does genetics play in lifting?

No
Yes

>>76382387 (OP)
Yes I've got a fraternal twin (not identical) he's an inch shorter but we mostly have the same frame proportions.

He went primarily with arnie style training because that was his hero as we were growing up.
I went just general athletic training because I didn't care just wanted abs and a 3d chest

He started lifting at 16 I started at 19

Ended up around the same mass and shape despite entirely diffent methods and lifts. I would say his arms are huge compared to mine but that's about the biggest difference. He's had back and neck problems I've had knee problems.

>>76382430
So where do genetics intervene here? You have better genetics than him despite being fraternal twins because he started 3 years before you with a more solid routine and yet you reached the same body as him?

>>76382450
The genetics are that we both ended up the same it was in the cards to begin with that the method didn't matter. It's why you get such insanely branching methodology when the reality is the people that are the posterboys for that style probably would have done just as well in any other style. If you can't "make it" with the most bog standard conventional lifting you're not going to make it with some esoteric shit either.

>>76382481
Yes, you ended up the same but with more time needed for him, so I wouldn't say we can assume that all training styles are the same and genetics don't matter... "Time needed to reach a physique" is the main measure of how effective is a routine or how good is a genetic profile

>>76382490
I never indicated how long it took. You created that context and have focused on it for no reason. We're both in our 30s with more than 10 years of active training of course any differnce in pace is non-existent after 4 or 5 years.

>>76382518
Okay, I’m being stupid, since he started when he was 16 and you started at 19, it felt to me as if he needed three more years than you to reach the same result, but I’m forgetting that you two aren’t the same age today, lol

>>76382539
>but I’m forgetting that you two aren’t the same age today, lol
What is even going on in your head dude?

>>76382387 (OP)
I have noticed that it's just not calves. Most people also have bad Quads genetics.

>>76382792
This. Just look at current body threads and how most avoid Quads pics or when they don't, they aren't that impresssive

>>76382387 (OP)
i think genetics matter a lot, but childhood athletic development and nutrition also makes a huge difference.
i have one friend who 'should' have good genetics. his father was absolutely stacked and his mother was decently fit as well. he was malnourished as a child and never did any sports or anything other than play video games. as a result, hes a skelly who seems unable to put on much muscle at all despite constant efforts. he could certainly do better training and dietwise but his gains compared to mine or my other friends are significant.
likewise, i have a friend who has been athletic and well fed his whole life. decent genetics especially for his arms. guy puts on muscle like nothing, his only issue is staying lean cause hes a big dude who loves to eat.

>>76382481
i really like your point here, i think i share the same stance. like when i see a program or special exercise routines for "building boulder shoulders", when the actual routine doesn't matter. just stimulate the muscle and your insertions and genetics will decide what you look like. the only thing we decide is how hard we stimulate our muscles and our diet.

>>76382387 (OP)
No because I observe the methodology of others through close analysis up against other proven methodology. Like, me. For example, I am lower body heavy so I want to blow up my arms.
>Start focusing on upper body shit
>Upper body magically catches up
Wow

>>76382842
Childhood athletic development and nutrition seem to make a difference as well, but does it impact the maximum level you can reach? Or just the duration it will take for you to reach it?

>be 1% autism
>have elite legs

>>76382387 (OP)
Yes
>started working out at the same time as an indian guy at my gym
>he knew who I was through friends so he literally copied everything I did and followed me around every workout
>we're both 6ft
>I started at 145lbs and got to 165lbs in a year and a half before I moved, same leanness
>ohp went from .5 plate to lmao 1 plate
>bench .75 to lmao 2 plate
>deadlift from 1.5 to 3.5 plate
>didn't squat
>he went from 225lbs to 235lbs and stayed fat
>ohp from not being able to do the bar to 65lbs
>bench bar to 1 plate
>deadlift bar to 2 plate
>I did try to push him to failure so it wasn't just complete lack of trying on his part

>>76383286
So how do you explain his difficulties?

>>76384960
His Indian genetics and diet clearly.

>>76384978
What does HE think? How does HE explain the situation?

>>76384987
he thought I was on gear lol

>>76385808
Ahaha, that's pretty common to think that people doing better than us are using steroids

>>76382387 (OP)
hot take:
training styles don't matter, its all genetics

>>76382842
Your skinny friend just doesn't know how to eat. Your other friend does, that's the only difference. Stuff 2 extra full meals a day into your skinny friend and they will stack it on. I know because I was this kid. Unless you have a medical condition proper exercise and eating enough equals gains.

>>76382387 (OP)
>what role does genetics play in lifting?
It makes you want to do certain movements more often because they’re easier. Limb length, ratios of upper limb to lowe limb, insertion efficiencies/inefficiencies, height, etc. will make it easier to pull certain lifts off. Easier lifts are more fun. When you enjoy doing something you do it more often. It’s basic psychology.

>>76382387 (OP)
genetics are like probably around 90% if not more. training methods/routines/etc make so little difference its not even funny. the way how you look and will look after training is basically pre-determined.

>>76382387 (OP)
I have an identical twin whose response to exercise is completely different to mine, so if anything, I observed that genetics mean nothing. We can do literally the same routine and diet and end up completely different, so the opposite of this guy here >>76382430

Our frame and faces are so similar that in clothes, people, including our parents, usually cannot tell us apart. Fun fact: Everyone claims it's totally easy to tell us apart and we don't look anything alike, then completely fails when tested, for some reason. I don't understand people sometimes.

>>76386434
>Ahaha, that's pretty common to think that people doing better than us are using steroids
You're brown.

>>76387722
Bad genetic is a lazy excuse for being unfit. Which is why you see so many obese whales blame their genetics. Hitting your genetic limit is something very few people manage. If you actually hit it you are competitive at a high level unless you have a genetic disorder.

>>76388498
To be clear to me bad genetics isn't being overweight, you can have good genetics for lifting and also be obese

>>76382387 (OP)
I have been lifting on and off for years and shitload of push-ups and pullups since childhood, over time your body produces more hgh test etc and androgen receptors as your body ling term adapts. My one lifting friend has been at it longer but compared to hs he has 30% wider shoulders and its not just mid delt size. I wouldn't worry about genetics desu when much more is changed by lifting over time. I have decent delts rn still sub 200 but the insertions just look different than sub150 ohp.

>>76383044
It looks like you have different genetics when youve been healthy for a year or so vs depriving your body of what its made to do. Like do you think your test will be higher or lower after a year of lifting?

>>76382430
>Yes I've got a fraternal twin (not identical) he's an inch shorter
Damn that's brutal
Knew these fraternal twins in highschool, one had a way more attractive face and got way more puss than the other even though they were both generally popular/athletic
Always wondered how it felt to be the inferior twin, must suck

>>76382481
>>76382842
>just stimulate the muscle and your insertions and genetics will decide what you look like
very true. Fitness in general is very simple, just sticking to the basics will get you 95% of the results. The last 5% or so is where the esoteric advanced techniques come into play.

>>76389075
But people seem to disagree even on these "basics"

>>76389522
It dosen't matter, whatever you do you only are going to be able to develop your potential which is predetermined

>>76388714
Does what you do (or your parents impose on you) during your childhood and teenage years have an impact? Is the "glass ceiling" lower for those who start lifting during their 20s with no prior background in sports at all?

>>76390864
Yes and no
your limit is your limit which gradually declines as age increases. You can get there sooner had you done more stuff during your peak hgh and igf-1 years but the celing itself was higher then because of those. Your celing now is what is it is and you probably would have seen some amount of decline from then to now.

>>76382387 (OP)
not in terms of lifting specifically but my family has 3 sons and I'm the youngest.

the middle brother is wildly successful, and he's married. literal millionaire at this point doing business shit in the business world.

I'm making decent money doing software, have a nice apartment. autistic as fuck and a virgin past 30 years old, but at least i have a good career and i am comfortable in life.

the eldest brother is a complete failure. he got fully woke and complains about trump and elon constantly, and he is starting drama in the family about how we don't hate white people or rich people enough. clearly resents the middle brother for being much more successful, and even thinks all large corporations are evil.

genetics are not everything.