Thread 76518302

cushioning feels too unnatural but if you're doing something unnatural like running a marathon then I guess it makes sense

>>76518302 (OP)
Had an (actual) barefoot phase as a teen, then got fat and started running heel strike in cushioned shoes, but after losing weight I switched to forefoot running. Just feels more natural.

Not much of a debate when barefoot is clearly better for you

>want good foot health and only run sparingly
Barefoot
>want to run fast times and marathons through training 5-7 times a week
Cushioned

/thread

I like barefoot because I don't compete against dyel lightweight faggots times so I just run against my own times

>>76518730
It's not when you run on concrete

>>76518302 (OP)
Don't know about running but my knees and feet feel significantly better long distance walking(10mi+) in barefoot shoes.

>>76518801
this. it depends on whether you're running on hard surface or not.

>>76518801
>>76518847
this is a myth, concrete or not doesn't matter
you're absorbing the impact with your form anyways, 99% of the impact comes from your bodyweight moving at high speed over any surface, the hardness of the surface is a minimal factor

>>76518302 (OP)
Do barefoot style shoes provide cushioning and protection?
I started walking around my living room from years of being sedentary because I noticed improvements immediately and now basically walk around 20k steps a day by going around in circles inside (there's a heatwave and it's hilly in my area).
Anyway, I noticed that even on hard floors I prefer going barefoot, I started barefoot then used shoes and now I feel barefoot is better again and would like to find such a shoe style to walk outside but striking on hard ground barefoot could cause issues.

>>76518924
They dont provide cushioning only protection against spiky shit on the ground
>striking on hard ground could cause issues
No it doesn't, not using cushioning is mainly a speed factor, you run much faster on concrete with bouncy cushioning but the impact to your joints is absorbed by your form not your shoes

>>76518880
Wrong
Marathon runners use thick shoes. Even if you run 10k you should use thick shoes

>>76518934
Idk about that, maybe for people who are light it's fine, I am 20kgs overweight and I can tell you with certainty that it feels like your heel gets fucked up when walking on hard tile for hours.
Even wearing socks makes a difference in how fast the pain starts.

>>76518942
They do because it improves their time

>>76518962
Well you shouldn't run if you're fat, the most important part on joint impact is your weight not the cushioning
F=MA, This is the main stressor and it can only be lessened noticeably with good form
Your sock example is just a placebo

>>76518975
They all train in cushioned shoes as well

>>76519001
Of course they do, they train for speed
If you train in the shoes you want to run in, that's what makes the training effective

>>76519007
Most elites spend most of their training jogging at slow speeds in zone 1, why would they not do these in barefoot shoes?

>>76519030
>most of their training
No they're not you're just making it up, they often train close to their marathon pace or whichever run they specialize in
>why would they not do these in barefoot shoes
Because training in the shoes you're going to use for your main run is more helpful, the more used to them you are the better
How do you not understand that concept?

>>76519050
Lmao you actually think pro marathon runners are spending >50% of their 100+ miles per week at marathon pace, thanks for outing yourself as a retard who has no idea how elite runners train.
Marathoners don't train in the shoes they race in either, they use basic daily trainers for that, which often don't have a carbon plate, but they still have a lot of cushion, hmm, curious that, it's almost as if cushioned shoes are better at absorbing impact and minimising injury risk when running 100+ miles a week over barefoot shoes.

>>76518302 (OP)
>>76518942
Can we get some ballpark numbers?
How much cushioning and stack height does a high stack shoe make?
Imo nobody needs more than 35mm of stack height and no drop more than 5mm.
For marathon I think something between 30 and 35mm is fine, you can go for more or for carbon plate shoe if you are an elite and chasing a top finish.
But I honestly think that regularly using big stack heights and carbon plated shoes is bad for your running form and joins
Any stack height about 40mm is worrying, super plush shoes are also not good.

>>76519064
I said close to their marathon pace, they dont train in zone 1 thats for sure
And they literally do train with plated shoes, you're absolutely clueless
To begin with you're autistic about elite marathon runners that train mainly for speed, which is not what the initial post talked about (barefoot being better for you)

>>76519117
>I said close to their marathon pace, they dont train in zone 1 thats for sure
The vast majority have an easy pace significantly slower than their marathon pace, sometimes up to 2:00/km slower: https://pluttrell3.wixsite.com/train-of-thought/post/mistake-1-running-too-fast-on-easy-days
This is equivalent to Z1 for them i.e. "recovery" effort as they are running so many miles that even Z2 is risky. Z2 for an elite marathoner is around 3:30/km pace, go look on strava and tell me how many elite marathoners you can find who spend most of their time at these speeds.
>And they literally do train with plated shoes, you're absolutely clueless
Yes, for workouts, not for easy runs which make up the vast majority of their time on feet.
>To begin with you're autistic about elite marathon runners that train mainly for speed...
I'm hyperfocusing on these guys because out of everyone these are the runners who NEED the most comfortable shoes that can help them safely build mileage. It stands to reason that if these guys are choosing high stack shoes to help them build up to 100+ miles a week injury-free then the average hobbyjogger who runs 20 miles a week (and is also more prone to injury having not had years of mileage to help develop their musculoskeletal system) should do the same.

There's no debate, faggot! Bouncy running shoes let you barrel down the road pumping your whole body at jet speed it feels manly and creates a positive speedback loop

>>76518302 (OP)
Cushioning feels great.
If I'm tricking myself somehow into enjoying a 15km run every 2 days, then that's fine.
Running with bouncy shoes feels like the first time I ever had chocolate.
Zero injuries, zero problems in my regular walking shoes, just good times running through the woods.

>>76518302 (OP)
Cushioned is better if your goal is to run as far/fast/long as possible. Barefoot is better if your goal is to improve your health/longevity/fitness.

>>76519914
This. I'm a heavy guy and running with bouncy shoes makes me feel safe. No injuries so far in my 1.5 year of rooning

There is no debate. Go look at all of the fastest runners in the world. They all use cushioned shoes. There isn't a single competitive marathoner or 5k runner or sprinter that uses barefoot shoes. You have fallen for the meme.

In civilised countries (not USA) you take your shoes off when you walk around your house, so spending 30 minutes a day in cushioned high drop shoes isn't gonna have any effect on your foot health in the long run.

Now if you spend all day walking around in running shoes you might have more of an issue, but that's a third world problem.

>>76518942
Those runners all grew up running high distance in minimal shoes if not out right barefoot. You show a picture of carbon plated shoes because the spring them forward. It has nothing to do with protection

>>76520255
Lmao Kenya is not the fucking desert like western media portrays it, they all had access to cheap nikes since childhood. A lot of them trained under the NCAA system in America too with access to all the top gear too (read: PEDs).

>>76520239
>There isn't a single sprinter that uses barefoot shoes
Merci pour la contribution. Now put "track spikes" into google.

>>76518302 (OP)
Barefoot, regardless of how far you run.
Using shoes that are engineered to assist you in any way is cheating, in my opinion. I want any distance or time I achieve to be MY achievement, produced using my power and will.

the main benefit to barefoot shoes comes from zero drop aka flat sole no heel lift and wide toe box for proper toe splay and better balance. the no cushion meme is retardation. lower to the ground improves stability but you can have decent cushion without adding too much height.

>>76520255
they grew up being groomed to run marathons and were fed a diet of blood doping drugs and steroids

>>76520365
Both Kipchoge and Kipyegon started off barefoot and they're probably the biggest name Kenyan runners for their respective genders. Faith went to her first races barefoot. So yeah maybe once they're in middle/highschool they get shoes but they did start off barefoot and they do wear shoes for the speed boost (and obviously sponsor money) not because it protects them.

>>76520365
>>76520610
Yes, I strongly believe EVERY top runner is on some type of PED and that those who think otherwise are ignorant but that is completely unrelated so I don't know why either of you felt like shoehorning it into the conversation

>>76518302 (OP)
cushion is not the problem, the drop is
you can have nicely cushioned shoes with low drop
t. made the mistake of wasting an entire year running with a 12mm drop shoes before getting redpilled into 6mm

>>76518302 (OP)
Static stretching.
One leg balance stands.
I'm healing my Achilles tendon and bunions toes from wearing running shoes most of my life.
Now I spend as much time daily barefoot.
If I have to go out to city or office I wear minimal/ flat, no heel height shoes.
Or cons, or thin tennis shoes.
The cheap ones from some place like wallys which are the most basic canvas glued to a flat sole are actually bretty good to my needs.

>>76520867
They weren't running 100 miles a week as kids you mong

>>76518302 (OP)
This is such a non-runner debate lmao. Go to any running event and you won't even see 1% of people running with barefoot shoes. There are other factors that are way more debate worthy. Also a lot of modern shoes inherited the good barefoot traits anyway, like a roomy toebox and low drop, but added a modern sole under it to fit whatever terrain, pace and stride.
That said, if you don't need extra protection, there is no reason to wear anything but barefoot shoes in everyday life. Pointy toeboxes are cancer.

>>76518942
>wear shit to please sponsors
>PRODUCT MUST BE GOOD!
why are cattle like this? Its so easy to market to them.

>>76518302 (OP)
Cushion of course. Running is hard and needs some buffer for your ankles.

>>76522055
You're the mong, you said nothing about weekly miles. Just made some dumb statement that Kenyans don't really run barefoot as if it's a psyop there are poor villages in Africa. Secondly, they wear those shoes because they get paid to and it helps them hit WRs. This does not imply they couldn't run those distances without the shoes. People get injured running barefoot because it depends on small muscles and tendons that are underdeveloped in those who don't run barefoot and running in shoes doesn't require loading the muscles so people learn a different form than they would barefoot.

1. Kipchoge ran barefoot to and from school "20km" everyday. I don't know if that's supposed to be round trip or each way but if round trip 5 days a week that is still 60mi/wk on top of any other running he might have done.
2. There's a video of Kipchoge talking about some guy in his village that's probably a better runner than he is but doesn't do races. The guy's just some random farmer no one knows much about but there's a pic of him running and he runs barefoot. You don't get to that level without running upwards of 120mi/wk so what then? You can find stuff on him if you doubt it but he seems legit.
3. Like 15ish years ago some company did a publicity stunt where the brought a couple tarahumara to Leadville 100. The tarahumara run either barefoot or in sandles they make themselves. iirc they were made to wear shoes at the race since the company that sponsored it was promoting their shoes but they still train enough without modern shoes to finish top of an (at the time) major 100 mile race.

Why is it so hard for people to believe we evolved to run without shoes when cushioned running shoes are such a recent invention? You going to try to argue an antelope is going to get hurt running barefoot?

>>76519914
>Cushioning feels great.
That's how I know it's bad for you.

>>76524090
In sorry that training is a difficult or painful thing for you, but for me it's a joy. I do it for free.

>>76522156
You have VERY low IQ

>>76523952
Shut up, hippie

>>76520386
NTA but spikes have changed somewhat in the last five years. High-end sprint spikes have carbon plates and either an air pad (Nike) or PEBA foam (everyone else) in the forefoot. Distance spikes have plenty of foam and WA (was IAAF) set dimensional rules, UCI style, to keep things sensible. Friend of mine was DQd from a jump comp recently for using an old (2y?) pair of spikes that were too thick. She was pissed...
And yes, there is an advantage to using the new kit.