Thread 76518690

It is well known that Epstein-Barr Virus along with other herpesviruses can cause many chronic illnesses, including chronic fatigue, narcolepsy, exercise intolerance, etc.
It is also well known that Tenofovir can treat those viruses and stop lytic cycle replication.
>hur dur HIV drugs are for fags
I'd like to point out you are all a bunch of fags as well, and if you suffer from fatigue or strange issues that normal doctors can't figure out this thread is for you, this thread is also for those who wish to maximize their gains to better themselves as 95% of the population is infected with EBV, and close to 90% has HSV-1.
>how is this /fit/ related?
many things can fuck up your gains and stamina, do you feel like you are plateauing? do you feel incredibly tired after exercise despite having lifted for a long time? well, this might just be the answer.
ITT: we will talk about methods of treating and maybe even curing some of these diseases, share experiences if you have ever taken antivirals, and speculate on different biochemical pathways that may lead to more effective treatment which may massively increase your performance and gains.

source

>>76518690 (OP)
>>76518722
https://www.meresearch.org.uk/me-cfs-and-epstein-barr-virus-ebv-some-facts/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8634673/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41582-023-00775-5
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/epstein-barr-virus-autoimmune-diseases
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32409608/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S221103482030643X
https://www.msard-journal.com/article/S2211-0348(24)00015-4/abstract
here are some sources to get started

>>76518690 (OP)
as per: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2772668/
it is known that long term treatment with antivirals can reduce the half life of EBV infected B cells, however i believe this can be reduced significantly by inducing viral latency reactivation while treating with an antiviral, such as the PrEP drugs descovy (better due to tenofovir alafenamide being stronger against EBV) or truvada (which contains tenofovir disoproxil), they are easily available and in most places are free or covered by insurance.
the main idea is that B cells that are infected with latent EBV are going to last longer than other B cells due to its suppression of apoptosis, making them functionally immortal (and raising your risk of lymphoma), as such the ideal way to get your immune system to fight it is to induce reactivation of EBV so that the infected B cells "reveal" themselves, making them vulnerable to the rest of your immune system, while at the same time taking a tenofovir in order to stop infection of healthy B cels
there are many anecdotal reports of high doses of arginine inducing the reactivation of other herpesviruses, along with HDAC inhibitors and a source pf physiological stress in order to increase p53 activation (a well known way to do this is cold exposure)
as such the following stack is recommended:
>tenofovir containing (alafenamide preferred) PrEP medication+minimum 5g of L-arginine+nigella sativa extract+daily cold/ice baths
this should be maintained for a long period of time, cycling the nigella sativa on and off, although the period has not been established as this has not been clinically researched, i would recommend starting with 2 months on, 1 month off.

I asked gemini if you are a faggot or not:

Overall Synopsis

The provided text is a highly speculative and potentially dangerous piece of online forum content. It constructs a hypothesis for treating chronic fatigue by combining established scientific concepts with unproven assumptions and significant logical leaps. While some of the individual points have a basis in legitimate scientific research, the proposed treatment protocol (the "stack") is entirely unsupported by clinical evidence and represents a high-risk form of self-experimentation.

The aggressive and unscientific tone ("hur dur HIV drugs are for fags") is a significant red flag regarding the source's credibility.

Analysis of Core Claims

Let's break down the validity of the main arguments presented.

1. Claim: "It is well known that Epstein-Barr Virus along with other herpesviruses can cause many chronic illnesses, including chronic fatigue..."

Accuracy: Partially Accurate but Oversimplified. There is a strong and growing body of evidence linking EBV infection to a higher risk of developing Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS), Multiple Sclerosis (MS), and other autoimmune diseases. Many ME/CFS cases begin after a viral infection, often consistent with infectious mononucleosis (caused by EBV). However, a direct, universal causal link has not been definitively proven for all cases of ME/CFS. The scientific consensus is that EBV is a significant trigger or contributing factor in a subset of patients, but not necessarily the sole cause for everyone. Presenting it as a simple, "well known" fact is an overstatement of the current scientific certainty.

>>76518886
Part 2

---

2. Claim: "It is also well known that Tenofovir can treat those viruses and stop lytic cycle replication."

Accuracy: Misleading. Tenofovir is an antiretroviral drug, a nucleotide reverse transcriptase inhibitor, primarily used for HIV. EBV is a herpesvirus, not a retrovirus. However, some research (including one of the author's sources, PubMed ID: 32409608) has shown that EBV also has a reverse transcriptase enzyme and that Tenofovir can inhibit EBV's lytic (active) replication in vitro (in a lab setting).

The Crucial Flaw: Showing an effect in a petri dish is vastly different from proving it is an effective treatment in a human being for a latent viral infection. There are no large-scale clinical trials that have established Tenofovir as an effective or approved treatment for ME/CFS or latent EBV in humans. The author's claim that this is "well known" is false.

3. Claim: The proposed mechanism of inducing reactivation while using an antiviral is the ideal way to clear the latent infection.

Accuracy: Theoretically Plausible but Clinically Unproven. This strategy is known in virology as "shock and kill" or Lytic Induction Therapy. It is a major area of research for a cure for HIV, where the goal is to reactivate the latent HIV reservoir so that antiviral drugs and the immune system can eliminate the infected cells.

The Leap: The author is applying this advanced, experimental concept from HIV research to EBV, using a self-devised cocktail of supplements and drugs. There is zero clinical evidence to support the idea that this specific combination (Tenofovir + Arginine + Nigella Sativa + Cold Exposure) is safe or effective for this purpose in humans. Intentionally reactivating a latent virus throughout the body is an extremely high-risk strategy that could lead to a severe worsening of symptoms or other unpredictable health crises.

>>76518886
>>76518896
Part 3:
---
Review of Provided Sources

The author uses legitimate scientific papers to support their premise, but misinterprets or overextends their conclusions to justify the proposed treatment.

ME Research UK, Nature, NIH.gov, MSARD Journal: These sources all support the premise that there is a strong link between EBV and chronic illnesses like ME/CFS and MS. They establish the problem but do not endorse or even mention the author's proposed solution.

PMC8634673 (Systematic Review of Antivirals for ME/CFS): This is a high-quality review. Such reviews generally conclude that evidence for using antivirals (like Valganciclovir) for ME/CFS is weak, inconsistent, or based on small studies, and that more research is needed. It does not support the author's confident assertion of a cure.

PubMed 32409608 & ScienceDirect article: These are in vitro studies showing Tenofovir can inhibit EBV replication in a lab. They support a small part of the author's biochemical argument but provide no evidence for its use as a treatment in people.

PMC2772668 (Long-term Valacyclovir): This study used a different antiviral (Valacyclovir, not Tenofovir). The author uses it to support the general idea that long-term antiviral use can impact the virus. However, one cannot simply substitute findings from one drug for another, nor does it validate the addition of reactivating agents.

>>76518886
>>76518896
>>76518903
Part 4:
---

Analysis of the Proposed "Stack"

This is the most dangerous part of the post.

Tenofovir-containing PrEP (Truvada/Descovy): These are potent prescription medications with significant potential side effects, including kidney damage and loss of bone mineral density. Using them without a valid medical reason and without physician monitoring is extremely risky.

L-arginine (minimum 5g): The rationale here is that arginine is known to be required for herpesvirus replication. The author is intentionally using it to promote viral reactivation. This is biologically plausible but incredibly reckless, as uncontrolled viral reactivation could be harmful.

Nigella Sativa (Black Seed Oil): Often studied for anti-inflammatory properties and as a potential HDAC inhibitor. The author includes it as another theoretical way to induce viral reactivation. Its effects in this specific context and in combination with these other substances are completely unknown.

Cold/Ice Baths: Intended as a physiological stressor to activate p53 and promote viral reactivation. Again, this is a purely speculative link in the context of this protocol.

Conclusion

Validity: The post is built on a foundation of cherry-picked scientific facts that are then woven into a highly speculative, unproven, and dangerous hypothesis.

Accuracy: The post is accurate in stating that there is a research link between EBV and ME/CFS. It is inaccurate and misleading in presenting Tenofovir as a known treatment for EBV and in presenting its speculative "stack" as a viable or safe therapeutic strategy.

This text should be considered misinformation. It promotes the unsupervised use of prescription medication and a high-risk biological protocol based on the author's personal interpretation of scientific literature, not on clinical data. Following this advice could result in serious harm. Anyone suffering from the described symptoms should consult a qualified medical doctor.

>>76518886
>>76518896
>>76518903
>>76518907
Conclusion - OP is a faggot.

>>76518863
my (OP) own testimony of this is that i started this stack a few months ago, the first month was hellish because the reactivation of EBV gave me severe lymph node swelling and fatigue, along with body pains and fever, however after that first month the symptoms subsided and i started feeling better, way better in fact, whereas before i would wake up tired every day i now wake up energized, it seems to have mostly treated my type 2 narcolepsy, i was always a rooner, and after treatment my stamina went up significantly, along with my recovery speed, despite having plateaued beforehand.
most of my lazyness seems to have disappeared as well.
as for side effects the biggest one is the crazy lucid dreams from the tenofovir, but those are always welcome over the sleep paralysis i had before.

>>76518910
there is a big issue with gemini's reasoning, which is while tenofovir is off label for treating EBV it is already being used in clinical trials for MS and CFS with positive results, and it shows effectiveness in vivo in those trials.
gemini is working off of outdated information, if you yourself are not researching it and leaving it to AI to do it for you, you are too much of an idiot to understand the biochemical mechanisms behind the effectiveness of these therapies

>>76518923
and not only ongoing trials, but also multiple case reports showing its effectiveness.
it is cutting edge stuff, and considering the possible risks and benefits, its definitely worth a shot.

>>76518915
>>76518923
Fag OP BTFO'd by Gemini lol AI chads never stop winning:

This reply combines a personal anecdote with an unsubstantiated claim to rebut the previous analysis.

The Personal Testimony: This is an N=1 anecdote, which is the lowest form of medical evidence. The initial "hellish" month with severe symptoms is interpreted by the OP as proof of efficacy (viral reactivation), but it could equally be interpreted as a dangerous adverse reaction to an unproven drug combination. The subsequent improvements cannot be distinguished from a powerful placebo effect or the natural fluctuation of chronic illness. While compelling to the individual, it has no scientific validity for proving the treatment is safe or effective for others.

The Rebuttal Claim: The OP claims Tenofovir is in clinical trials for MS and ME/CFS with "positive results" and proven in vivo effectiveness. This is a significant overstatement. While research into antivirals for these conditions is ongoing due to the EBV link, the assertion that Tenofovir is a proven in vivo therapy through these trials is not supported by current, high-quality published data. The OP's argument dismisses the need for rigorous scientific validation by referencing ongoing research as if it were a finished, positive conclusion.

In summary, the OP's reply reinforces the original analysis: they are basing their high-risk protocol on personal experience and an over-interpretation of preliminary or ongoing research, rather than on established, evidence-based medicine.

>>76519051
read the ITT faggot, this is an experimentation thread

>>76519152
No. Not gonna start taking anti virals based on low funded petrie dish clinical trials that don't actually prove anything.

Fuck off.

>>76519238
I take prophylactic NAC, bromelain, zinc and copper for anti-viral properties but the pharma shit usually got too many sides unless you have some kinda active infection.

I'm 32 virgin, never even kissed a girl - Guess what, I don't have any kind of health or fatigue problems! Normies who have casual sex with randoms are riddled with viruses that even our science cannot identify yet, then these same idiots complain of chronic fatigue, I wonder what could cause that huh?

>>76519244
tenofovir is pretty good sides wise IMHO, especially if you can get just the alafenamide one, its very safe as long as you drink enough water

>>76519252
i agree, however, EBV is usually something you get in childhood, because children tend to put stuff in their mouths, including stuff that was also in other people's mouth's
also you can get EBV from drinking from a water fountain

>>76519325
EBV yes but there are 8 herpes viruses discovered so far. I bet I have EBV and I also have HSV-1 but I don't think I have much else.

>>76518690 (OP)
>exercise intolerance
Lmao what kind of fatty cope is that??

>>76519252
Can confirm this wizard is correct and based

>>76519252
>tfw virgin but still have herpes
Worst of both worlds

>>76519460
Yes, I have HSV-1, like most of the world population - no idea where, probably shared a drink with someone when I was a kid? You literally cannot escape HSV-1.

>>76519346
you likely have HHV 6 or 7 as well, and maybe HHV-5
also if you ever had chicken pox you have latent shingles as well

>>76519451
its basically something that happens where instead of exercise slowly increasing your stamina you in fact tire more easily, some people get swollen lymph nodes, others get blood pressure drops, some more severe cases get fevers, it is usually triggered after a viral of bacterial infection

>>76519500
it is also vertically transmitted, tenofovir seems to work pretty well for HSV as well (better than aciclovir and valaciclovir in in vitro trials at least)

>>76519551
I don't have problems with HSV-1, I only have breakouts in my lips after a severe flu.

>>76519531
Might have, might not, who knows.

>>76518690 (OP)
PrEP is fucking expensive though. It's great for fucking trannies tho.

>>76520005
its free where i live at least, and in most places its either covered by insurance or part of govt healthcare

>>76520513
Not if Dementia Diddler Donnie gets his way. Maybe some of RFK Jr.'s methylene blue will be the best and only antiviral they cover soon, kek.

If the viruses aren't active the antiretrovirals won't do anything retards.

>>76520634
latency has a baseline reactivation level to keep the number of infected cells at a certain amount, its not just going inactive for ever, its constantly reactivating and infecting new cells, the idea is that by stopping it from infecting new cells you can slowly drain the viral reservoir, and by actively inducing reactivation via HDAC inhibitors, arginine (which anecdotally reactivates HSV as well) and inducing p53 via physiological stress (cold shock being the easiest way) you can remove most of the latent virus from hiding and clear it out over time, it might take some years though

>>76518690 (OP)
>just take AIDS drugs for gay guys bro

>>76521753
>HDAC inhibitors
Speaking of this, I saw some pretty worrying literature for any DWS followers:
>Curcumin and butyrate induce fibroblast senescence without the emergence of fibrosis biomarkers
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2949688823000217
Unless this is somehow being entirely counteracted by other ingredients like apigenin and B12, DWS's protocol probably needs a big re-engineering with new molecules.

I'm on the same path.

I found colloidal gold of some benefit but it might work in the opposite direction of your protocol (slowing the infection rate). The research on that is abysmal but I found a paper stating the cytotoxic dose was higher than the amount required to show antiviral / -bacterial effects.

I've had odd symptoms for a years and a few bad flareups (including blindness and severe vertigo), since my MRIs are clear no one cares. The vertigo for me was just too much and I'm trying everything I can and I keep researching. I also came to the conclusion that a kind of Herpes virus must be a huge factor (it might be the interaction with other viruses too). It's crazy that a lot of what is called "autoimmune" is actually the body attacking viruses in various tissues but the viral factor is simply ignored.

Also, doctors are potatoes with 0 critical thinking and huge egos and just regurgitating big pharma's protocols. I just mention my symptoms and it's a matter of seconds before I hear the word "psychosomatic", I believed it for a while but the pulsating blood sound in my ear, the ridiculous muscle twitching, blue hands and feet and the fainting when standing up ain't psychosomatic at all.

I see what you're up to OP. Was nice to find this post, Ill give it a try since I also wondered maybe accelerating the infection could be the solution.

>>76522487
the idea is that you are taking a potent antiviral and then forcing the virus out of hiding, its less accelerating the infection and more blocking it from infecting new cells and waking up all the already infected ones so your immune system can deal with them, for EBV and the herpesvirus family tenofovir alafenamide is the ideal candidate

>>76522487
also the blindness can directly be caused by EBV, so yes i think you might benefit from this, since EBV causes B cells to become immortal and turn into memory B cells it also disrupts the body's natural mechanisms for stopping autoimmunity (which normally would kill B cells with autoantibodies), which leads to the population of EBV infected B cells containing cells that produce autoantibodies
just make sure you're taking tenofovir alafenamide (descovy, but truvada works too) for about 4 days before you try waking up the sleeping bear

>>76522487
>>76522610
this idea of waking up the virus from latency in order to clear it out is something i came up with and later confirmed that its theoretically possible based on some pretty cutting edge HIV research where they did exactly that but with actual HIV, the big issue is that while it works partially it still doesn't erradicate the virus in a single pass because there's no way to wake it up in every single cell all at once, which is why the cycling of the activators is necessary (all while still taking the tenofovir, DO NOT STOP TAKING IT, a single day missed can mean the virus becomes resistant to it), from the research with valaciclovir just the antiviral cuts down the half-life of the population of latent EBV infected B cells to 11 months, which would mean about 17 years of antivirals before its fully cleared, however by disrupting latency i expect to be able to clear out a significant amount of infected cells with each induced flare-up, meaning it goes from 17 years to just a couple years

>>76521891
there are a few different HDACs, sirtuins are only a single class of them, most HDAC inhibitors are selective only to a few classes of HDAC and most of them don't touch SIRT1 or SIRT2

>>76518690 (OP)
OP are you familiar with Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction (PSSD) or Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS)? I was wondering what your take was on these conditions and how to cure them.

>>76523684
i do believe PFS is genetic, its basically the same thing as what happened with DNP and cataracts, you have a deficiency of a specific enzyme, in the case of DNP people had a deficiency in the pentose phosphate pathway (which is an anaerobic pathway for oxidative phosphorylation that kicks in when the main aerobic pathway can't keep up, or there is not enough oxygen) which means that when these people took DNP they would immediately start developing cataracts because the cells in the eye would immediately run out of energy, same with PFS, with PFS an innate genetic deficiency of one of the enzymes that synthesize neurosteroids means that when finasteride is used the specific pathway gets stressed and can't keep up, leading to PFS, and an accumulation of certain steroids, androgens and neurosteroids, an idea for treating PFS is actually using dutasteride in order to "reset" the expression of the three isoenzymes of 5AR, meaning you stop type 1 5AR from bogging down the synthesis pathways, in cases where the PFS was caused by dutasteride you can also consider it as being equivalent to what happens in PPD (post partum depression) and it can be treated by raising allopregnanolone levels (oral progesterone works very well for this, however you need to get some HCG in there too to avoid HPG axis suppression), mutations in UGT2B17 and UGT2B15, along with deficiencies in some of the 5AR isoenzymes are common in PFS, but it varies from person to person
so yeah, its an extremely weird idea but I've seen it work clinically, give PFS patients dutasteride and 90% of them get better within a month, and the rest get better after administering oral progesterone for the allopregnanolone (with HCG so the progesterone doesn't block their HPG axis)

>>76523684
as for PSSD i am not fully sure but it might be related to damage to certain types of nerve fibers (and possibly reactivation of a virus of the herpesvirus family via PKC inducing neuropathy?), also just straight up serotonergic neurotoxicity, maybe mushroom microdosing or BDNF induction can help? I'd look for nootropics that can help in other cases of neurotoxicity, also NAC (with zinc and copper of course, otherwise you're just going to chelate them away) because reducing ROS might help the brain heal

>>76524050
>>76524149
I'm suffering PSSD after taking a serotonergic antibiotic and it fucking sucks. No libido, numb shrunken dick, shrunken testicle, emotional numbing, poorer concentration, etc. I've tried TRT, HCG, enclomiphene, NAC, lithium orotate, red light therapy, carnivore diet, etc. I'm like barely hanging on by a thread to stay alive I'm so miserable.

>>76524050
Damn if this board put as much work into finding alternative hair regeneration pathways as researching PFS we'd all be on CXCL-12 inhibitors n shit.
>CAPTCHA:TRTVS

>>76524707
oh for hair its pretty simple, here's a formula from a well known autistic tranny doctor (so you know its good) i know for a fact works: Azelaic Acid 2%,Bicalutamide 0.5%, Biotin 0.5%, Dutasteride 0.2%, Ketoconazole 2%, Bimatoprost 0.3% ,Melatonin 1%, Metformin 5%, Minoxidil 8%, Naltrexone 0.1%, Phenytoin 0.5%, Tea Tree Oil 0.25%, Tretinoin 0.01%,
>In an appropriately sized beaker, mix propylene glycol and ethyl Alcohol together and heat to 55-60 C.
>Propylene should be 45% of the formula. Use an amount of ethyl alcohol that is approximately 40% of the final volume.
>Very important to heat this up, otherwise ingredients will not dissolve completely.
>End result: Homogeneous liquid-like solution.
>Discontinue heat and let cool to 40 C
>Add Minoxidil until almost completely dissolved, do NOT heat. Then add Azelaic Acid and stir until dissolved with spin bar.
(Must complete milling in increments of 15gm at a time, milling slowly is very important in order to avoid clumps and paste formation.)
MAY NOT BE NECESSARY:
>Once Minoxidil and Azelaic Acid are dissolved, add Dutasteride. May need to warm if it does not go into the solution after ~15-20min.
>Add Melatonin, USP Naltrexone, Biotin, Metformin, Ketoconazole, Phenytoin, and Tretinoin while mixing
>Add Polysorbate 80 (1% of batch), Tea Tree Oil, and Eucalyptus oil to step 5.
>Add Latanoprost into the solution.
>Crush Bicalutamide tablets and pour into solution.
Store in a tight light resistant spray bottle

>>76524808
oops messed up Bimatoprost for latanoprost in the end
i personally prefer Bimatoprost because its cheaper and more stable

>>76524493
which antibiotic specifically? i might be able to give pointers if i know the pharmacological agent in question

>>76524493
also have you had an ACTH stimulation test done? also a-MSH levels would be nice to see, how comprehensive are your labs? 3a-ADG, 11-oxo androgens, corticoids etc etc are all going to help a lot in diagnosing it, shrunken testes indicate possibly an adrenal issue, most likely something fucking up steroid synthesis pathways, if you can get some comprehensive labs, a-MSH, ACTH stimulation, estradiol, estrone sulfate, testosterone, dht, 3a-adg, DHEA and DHEA-S, IGF-1, GH, LH, FSH, progesterone, allopregnanolone, catecholamines (to check for pituitary tumors), prolactin, cortisone, hydrocortisone, 11-deoxycortisol, aldosterone, 21-deoxycortisol
desu in your case depending on the antibiotics in question I'd say either fucked up corticoids/HPA axis or prolactin issue.

>>76524855
in the case of fucked up HPA axis supplementing about 10mg a day of hydrocortisone acetate would fix, in case of prolactin issue you will need to take a dopamine agonist for a while (cabergoline works good and is cheap)

>>76524858
note not to try either until you got labs confirming the issue because cortisone can fuck you up if you don't need it and cabergoline has some shitty side effects regarding impulse control and addictive behaviors cabergoline should only be taken until everything goes to normal ranges and then tapered off

>>76524493
after looking up some stuff was the antibiotic linezolid? if so its likely to be nerve damage, try giving dihexa (DMSO solution for skin absorption) and NSI-189 a try (separately for fucks sake, do not mix the two unless you are a fan of seizures)
and for the love of jod be careful with the dihexa, that shit is powerful and can give you what is basically neurogenesis induced autism if you take too much of it.

>>76524827
>>76524904
I took doxycycline in high school for acne and that ended up giving me permanent sleep issues and numb glans of the penis that wouldn't go away. A couple years later I tried a couple of different antidepressants to help with sleep like prozac and mirtazapine and these gave me full blown PSSD low libido, ED, genital shrinkage etc. Had I known about PSSD and the role doxycyline played I obviously would have never touched any of these poisons.

I've gotten blood panels done before for a lot of these markers but not all of them and they were for the most part normal. For some of these things like alloprgenanolone idk how relevant bloodwork would be since this a neurosteroid. A cerebral spinal fluid via spinal tap might be a better measure.

>>76518690 (OP)
bump

>>76525043
hmm, I'd go with trying out a high dose vitamin D protocol to induce LL-37, chronic kallikrein 5 inhibition from the doxycycline is likely the cause of it

>>76525043
also eat some sauerkraut, drink kombucha, PSSD (the numbness part) tends to get better over time, don't stress out too bad about it, and yes you probably will benefit from cabergoline considering mirtazapine was in the mix there

>>76525101
I'd be careful between the dihexa, nsi-189 and cabergoline because the combo even when spaced out from each other can induce mania/hypomania, so beware if you feel too good to be true when trying them out if you decide to

>>76524808
That actually sounds like a pretty good hair stack compared to most of what's on here, but minoxidil is even some marginally effective overpriced boomer garbage IMO.
>mint water
>milk thistle
>mulberry root oil
>chuanxiong extract
>hemp oil
>sesame oil
>ephedra water extract
>angelica sinensis extract
>ginseng extract
>azelaic acid
>arginine
>vitamin B3
>vitamin B6
>vitamin D3
>vitamin E
>zinc sulfate
>NMN
>caffeine
>cetirizine
>latanoprost
>oryza sativa extract
>melatonin
>raspberry extract
>hyaluronic acid
>licorice water extract
>glycolic acid
>salvia miltiorrhiza water extract
>apple cider vinegar
>bromelain
>turmeric
>glycine max isoflavone extract
>DIM
>KX-826
>ketoconazole
>singlet oxygen
>chlorine dioxide solution
>hydrocortisone
>triamcinolone acetonide

>>76525214
corticoids stop hair from growing unless paired with a retinoid FYI
also the stack i mentioned is well known to work extremely well, its from a famous tranny doctor afterall, and we all know trannies tend to be the best at diy cutting edge research, the stack i mentioned can make even the baldest chemotherapy survivor, chronic trenbolone and dht user with cushings grow hair.

>>76525214
also most of those on your stack will fuck up your hormones, at least for the plants and plant extracts i can see about 4 that off the top of my head will kill your gains by effectively acting as antiandrogens and HPG axis suppressors

>>76525290
also chlorine dioxide is just retarded, that shit will bleach what little hair you have lol

>>76525277
>>76525290
>>76525296
all that shit's supposed to be topical, not systemic. there's a reason corticosteroids go right after the oxidizers; they downregulate cytokine signaling and prevent oxidizer-induced shed prior to regrowth.
>t. hair wizard.

>>76525290
might as well just troon out and get on estradiol+bicalutamide+raloxifene (to suppress tits) at that point, at least it will be better for your liver

>>76525312
This reminds me of the "eat spiro" meme, like OFC you use hormone modulators f'n topically for f'n hair. 4chan just dense sometimes, but kinda high doses of Vitamin C are a safe oral hair drug targeting DKK-1.

>>76525304
ah, i see, sorry about my assumptions there, but yeah, desu your stack seems a bit overkill to me (or at least some of it could be moved to oral formulations)

>>76525345
The vitamins and shit sure, but a lot of the phytochemicals actually run into metabolism skill issues. Eriocitrin, for example seems to make it slightly into plasma, but also undergoes a lot of gut metabolism. Given its binding profile, it probably has fin-like side effects if you eat too much of it, though. Yet in my experience, there aren't any fin-like side effects rubbing mint water on head, indicating eriocitrin probably does not absorb into the blood through the skin very well, even though there isn't literature on it specifically. You look at glycine max isoflavones though, which the more common name of it is filtered here but it includes chems like genistein, and there is already literature saying it won't got systemic if used topically just like spiro or ketoconazole.

>>76525364
as for the isoflavones you'd have better luck with some estriol (a low dose of it) or 17-alpha-estradiol (not 17-beta-estradiol), maybe stack both for better efficacy, systemic effects should be practically none (maybe some better skin) as long as the dose is reasonable

>>76525364
ah yeah, mint does have a systemic antiandrogen effect IIRC from a study on women with PCOS that ended up suppressing their HPG axis by drinking like a whole liter of spearmint tea a day, but yes skin effects should be minimal
you should take a look at vanillin and its derivatives (ethyl and methyl vanillin) as they act on the WNT pathway and should help with hair growth quite a bit (personal experience wink wink)
desu you should take a look at your stack because some of the stuff in there is redundant or can be swapped for better options, like most of the estrogenic herbs can be swapped for just estriol, 5AR inhibitor herbs for alphaestradiol or topical duta, antioxidants for stuff like BHT (which also serves as a preservative), and just general simplifying.