Thread 76526836

It's literallly a term invented by dyels.
Going to the gym 4 times a week will yield greater results than going 3 times. Going 6 times will yield greater result than going 4 times. Going everyday will still result in more gains.
If you've been lifting for less than a year, you absolutely don't need rest days because you're a weak bitch tossing around baby weights. Your body recovers from that within a day.
Rest days come into play when you're highly advanced and toss around 4+ plate deadlifts.

tl;dr YOU'RE NOT GAINING MUSCLE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT TRAINING OFTEN ENOUGH AND HARD ENOUGH.

>>76526836 (OP)
not really.
you don't grow muscle in the gym, you grow when you rest. muscle is only broken in the gym.
without time for recovery, gains are hindered. go read studies about it. (whitepaper, double-blind, not blog posts).

>>76526836 (OP)
But youll get sick more often.

You should have told that to 6 times Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates who worked out 4 times in a week. He could have been even bigger if he knew..

>>76526836 (OP)
>steroidman rambling angry post that's still wrong
Yes there's such thing as training to a detriment.
There's also such a thing as training more than you can benefit from and training to the point the risks outweigh the rewards.

4-5 sets near failure a group per 3-5 days (this is largely genetic and somewhat age related) is about the point where returns on consecutive sets become stupid low. Maybe not even a whole 5% more.

This can even be boiled down further say somewhere the neighborhood of 20-25 effective reps seems to be about as good as gets for natties. Nothing past that is really worth the time, connective tissue wear, glycogen, electrolyte depletion, cortisol ect.

If you want to do more warm up do some Yates thing where you do a increasing set to a top set with really coherent lift selection. It takes a ton of time and effort but being as big and lifting as heavy as him while being as injury free as Yates was is something of an art. Not that you'll ever get so big you're slinging around weights your skeleton isn't built to handle and consequently need that safety.

>>76526845
you, a 140lb skinny dyel faggot who benches 50lbs, are comparing yourself to a Mr Olympia champion in his peak who was benching 450lbs.
You don't need the recovery he needs. Fag.

>>76526865
this is a good point, as you get stronger you need to lift heavier weights and need more recovery not just for your muscles but also joints

>>76526842
You didn't read any of those studies yourself, you got it fed into your blowhole by dr. Kike Israetel and now here you are, a sad sack of shit dyel regurgitating some bloated roidtranny's advice because you fell for the credentialism of his PhD in "sports science" (the most low prestige, useless degree one can get)

>>76526865
I need even more recovery than someone on enough roids to kill an elephant
Also he was a natty once too. Read his diaries he started with 3 times a week

>>76526888
Hey anon, post body

>>76526836 (OP)
There absolutely is overtraining, your tendons will start screaming at you.
Part of what makes gear great is that you recover so much faster, shit if you break a bone in your leg they inject you with steroids in the area to promote healing.

It's just that most people really overestimate the work they do in the gym. If you are going to true failure, not just a mental tapout in the gym you need time to recover. I usually take 2-3 days off a week.

>>76526896
Yeah OP really exposed himself as a tard here

>>76526836 (OP)
then based on your logic i could train 23 hours a day and be fine

>>76527136
It's a double edged sword.
There's a bunch of studies showing it degrades connective tissue over time. Then there's a bunch saying it does the opposite.

I'd like to see them doing studies with steroids on rep ranges and tendon repair. Because the model of tendon disrepair/stress shielding and recovery largely has to do with what's considered optimal loading (8-12 rep range) making it better and loading sets too heavy or light making it worse. But if we can figure out how steroids interact with that we'd be able rehab people stupid quick I'm sure someone is already doing in this professional sports but it have it be public would be great.

As an aside you gain strength so fast on steroids there's basically no chance for your connective tissue to even catch up no matter how powerful your shit is. So you have to approach it with caution and a lot of intuition about what your bad leverages are because that shit can break you.

>>76527128
OP here. Mirin?
Now shut up dyel cuck

Yes, there is only underroiding.

>>76526836 (OP)
Overtraining exists but you won't experience it unless you're genuinely insane and live in the gym. The only people who get it are psycho athletes who genuinely push their body to its limit multiple times a week. Worrying about overtraining is a cope the devil in your mind makes up to make you lazier

>>76526845
He very well could have

>>76526896
Sounds like you have critically low T. Sucks to have shit genes I guess.

Overtraining (systemic fatigue) =/= overtraining (joint wear & tear) =/= overtraining (dulled hypertrophy response)
Define your terms

>>76527340
Here's the term for you smartass
Overtraining = needing rest days as a non-advanced lifter

>>76526836 (OP)
>There is no such thing as "overtraining"
Dumbest shit I've ever seen.

Why do training programs even exist if overtraining isn't real?
Just train everything to the max never taking days off for maximum gains.

I keep getting tendon injuries working out 6 days a week. Not a single sign of muscle fatigue though. Is this overtraining or not?

>>76526836 (OP)
Erm, there literally is such thing as overtraining and it’s called Rhabdomyolysis which can quickly kill you. 99.99% of people never train hard enough in their entire lives to reach that point though.

>>76526845
When you are taking anabolic drugs and not just steroids on a daily basis your training basically does not matter.

>>76526836 (OP)
>it's another "OP has just graduated from DYEL but still lifting weights low enough that he doesn't need proper recovery" episode

>>76527398
Yes, retard. I literally said it in my post that for NON-ADVANCED LIFTERS there is no such thing as overtraining

From November 2022 to February 2023 I did an experiment of working out 7 days a week and I got insane strength and gains but I think I was manic because I broke up with my ex, now I’m just getting back to the strength I had back then. But now I find it stupid to go lift x7 per week

>>76527407
if you're outing yourself as beginner there is no reason to listen to you since your advice is irrelevant and you don't know shit

>>76527419
Work on your reading comprehension buddeh

>>76526836 (OP)
>how to injure yourself in one easy step
Listen to your body. If you’re lifting with intensity you’re going to need rest. If you feel great, go ahead, but overdoing it is a huge way to make no progress. Injuries cost a lot of time. This is the kind of attitude that works well until one day, snap

>>76527407
>Yes, retard. I literally said it in my post that for NON-ADVANCED LIFTERS there is no such thing as overtraining
Even for them overtraining is real, most people that experience rhabdomyolysis are noobies or people that come back from layoffs.

>>76527196
lol, lmao even

>>76526836 (OP)
>There is no such thing as "overtraining"
Yes there is. In fact if you overtrain too much, you'll get Rhabdo.
>Going 6 times will yield greater result than going 4 times
It didn't work for Tom Platz. According to him, he got smaller trying to emulate Arnold or at least what Arnold claimed to do (most people were actually on a 3 on, 1 off schedule at Gold's including Arnold so Arnold couldn't have trained more than five days per week in most weeks. Plus there is the fact that it was a three way split). When he cut back to twice per week training, he saw his most gainz.

>>76526865
>>76526886
You can get joint issues from overuse. People can get joint issues from repetitive tasks with no weight at all.

>>76527348
Ah then I'm with you
Strength training then
>trainees had an active upbringing
>trainees played sports on "rest" days
>trainees were left to do arms and abs on their own
Strength training now
>trainees sat in front of screens for their entire lives
>nooooo you can't do any cardio on off days or you'll overtrainnnnn
>you want to do CURLS!?! YNDTP

>>76526836 (OP)
What about going 100 times a week?

>>76529222
you still have to lift when you get there

>>76526836 (OP)
youve never trained hard enough to overtrain
i dont listen to weak pathetic clowns that dont workout hard enough to kill themselves

>>76527315
>>76526836 (OP)

Op and this guy is right, not a single person who was ever worried about or talks about "over training" has ever come close to over training, just going to the gym for an hour a day, 7 days a week (which 99% of people couldn't commit to anyway) will not make you "over train", not even close.

Over training is a cop out excuse lazy retards use to justify doing less and the redditor types think regurgitating this fitness "science" fact makes them appear knowledgeable and authoritative, eg. just look at all the brainwashed faggots itt who think they are smarter than you because they can parrot some bs they heard in a youtube shorts reel, it's the deadly combo putting lazy retards and wannabe know it alls together that perpetuates this "over training" fearmongering everywhere you go.

It's just another noob/retard "fitness science" trap that implants a personal belief system that limits someone potential, as much as these stupid lifting belief systems annoy me, well who cares because the retards that buy into this shit make no gains and get what they deserve.

pic related is the kind of mfer who worries about "over training"

>>76526842
But you're not going to do full body every day, look at Sam Sulek, his "split" is literally Chest -> Back -> Arms -> Legs, he mixed these a bit sometimes but for 90%+ of his training career he just repeated these 4 days. He took like 2 days off in the past 3 years and he's growing fine.

>>76527762
Yeh but you motherfuckers arnt tom platz or arnold, you arn't in the gym for 8 hours completely blasting your muscles to the extreme doing full body workouts every single day, you're a little bitch that does a quick 45 min workout and can barely lift 1 plate on bench, the absolute audacity of you faggots who think your pathetic little 45 min workout could even bring you close to overtraining.

But hey you saw a youtube short once so now your the expert on all things fitness now lmao, never mind the fact that every one of these dudes admits half the shit they said back in the day was just them constantly trying to lie and troll each other with bad advice because it would give them a personal edge over the competition, mike mentzer started the "I barely workout because rest is more important!!!" grift after he got trolled big time by arnold and realized the mental manipulation game everyone was playing, if you believe anything you hear on youtube shorts from grifters you're a fucking retard lmao

>>76530612
>Sulek
A jeet on roids is a good example. Got it

>>76530656
Ok, so if you're looking for small role models, look at Jeff "Obnoxious "I Love Heckin' Science" Faggot" Nippon. He spent 15 months recently training with his brother according TO THE EPIC LATEST SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE and they trained 6 days/week, every week, for 15 months.

>>76526836 (OP)
>>76530590
Non-lifting faggots who should kill themselves asap

>>76530659
>they trained 6 days/week, every week, for 15 months.
and his brother ended up obese with minimal gains.

>>76526836 (OP)
t. bench pr 120 lbs, has been lifting for less than 2 years

Overtraining is real and chances are most people on /fit/ are currently overtrained.

>>76530590
>not a single person who was ever worried about or talks about "over training" has ever come close to over training, just going to the gym for an hour a day, 7 days a week (which 99% of people couldn't commit to anyway) will not make you "over train", not even close.
Wrong.

Overtraining is easy, especially if you're a natty.

>>76526836 (OP)
correct

>>76530743
>Overtraining is easy, especially if you're a natty.

Your 45 minute gym session isn't going to put you into over training, no matter how many times a week you go to the gym, dumb fucks like you are exactly the kind of retard I was talking about, imagine getting spooked into not lifting by grifting science faggots on youtube lmao, imagine thinking your body can't handle working out more than 3 times a week.

Are you doing 4+ hours in the gym, 7 days a week, for months at a time???
No?
Then you arn't "over training", you're just a little bitch who watched to much youtube instead of working out and now you're stuck with a bunch of "rules" that do nothing except put limits on yourself.

Retards like you should worry less about overtraining and instead worry about the effects of being a faggot who sits on his phone all day scrolling youtube fitness shorts to get a fake feel good "i did something today, I didn't go to the gym, but I LEARNT about going to the gym!!!" dopamine hit instead of actually going to the gym.

You're a bitch who has never come close to overtraining in your life, you have been spooked into not lifting by "science", what a loser.

I do 4 days a week, 2 hours per day. That's enough for me and it has worked very well.

Any more and it's too much fatigue and not enough time to rest (for me). You have to take care of your joints, tendons and ligaments, too.

Everyone has to find their own balance, though, there is no routine or plan that applies well to everybody. 6 or 7 days a week I'd wager is overkill for the vast majority of people.

>>76527348
I need rest days when my acid reflux is flaring up because im stuffing myself with ungodly amounts of food and it feels like im getting stabbed in the chest.

>>76526842
muscle damage is not a driving force for hypertrophy you fucking retard

>>76530778
You do not exercise, overtraining is easy as hell, 3 days full body, hill running inbetween, rest on sundays, all my lifts went down, my sleep and mood suffered etc. Non perfect sleep/eating, that non NEETs will have, makes this even easier.

>>76530659
6 days/week, every week, for 15 months.
I've averaged at least 6x/week for 19 months. Daily volume has been pretty low for a while.

Frequency means very little if it's 2+ days a week, next to the total number of sets. 15x2 is harder than 5x6.

>>76531330
you're just a bitch

OP is right and the fact that he's getting trashed for it just shows how shit this board has become.

I mean overtraining is real but it's much more difficult to reach than people imagine.
I used to be afraid of it but when I started benching 4-5 times per week my numbers shot up.

>>76530813
Imagine if she never became to steroid addict, she would still be breedable
now she looks barren

>>76530648
I don't think Mentzer is entirely wrong but when it comes to strength training, you need extra practice to train the nervous system to execute the lift efficiently and in many cases 1-2 times per week isn't going to cut it.

>>76526836 (OP)
I'm gonna give you the secret of Olympus:
Day1: legs
Day2: push
Day3: pull
Day 4: rest

Do this forever and you'll reincarnate as a god

>>76531388
>I used to be afraid of it but when I started benching 4-5 times per week my numbers shot up.

Yep, this honestly it's crazy how much people forced the overtraining meme back then.
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T WORKOUT 5-6 DAYS YOU NEED A REST DAY BETWEEN EVERYTHING

complete fucking bullshit, if you want to get better at something, you need to do it as much as possible.

>>76532074
>people think that going to the gym for 45 mins 5 times a week will put them into "overtraining" mode

Do these retarded mfers not realize some ppl work 12 hour days doing physical labor lifting heavy shit all day long without being "cns fatigued", I have no doubt in extreme cases that "overtraining" and "cns fatigue" exists, but the average gym bro (99% of people) is no where near close to hitting that point.

It's just the perfect excuse for lazy retards to feel good about doing less, simple as that, it's the new "cardio will kill my gains" excuse, but now they got an excuse to not lift as well.

>>76526836 (OP)
The term overtraining was invented by Mike mentzer and Tom platz. High volume training was bs that Arnold lord about to make his competition not grow and get smaller

>>76526836 (OP)
This is cope for not actually getting close to failure.

>>76526836 (OP)
Why are you trying to give advice when you are DYEL? This might work for some noobs but isn't good advice.
Recovery is the most important part of training.
I was bench pressing 3 times a week until I reached 170kg max then I hurt a pec tendon because I wasn't recovering properly.
Now I switched to 2 times a week and everything is going better. As a rule of thumb you need 72 hours rest between body parts.

>>76532328
I work 60 hours a week physical labor and stopped going to the gym in a retarded fear of overtraining, a few months back I started going again and not only do I have more energy, but my body feels way better.

Look, I used to believe the whole “you grow outside the gym” thing too until I stopped listening to people who train three times a week and look exactly the same year after year. The human body adapts way faster than most give it credit for. If you hit a muscle once, sure, it’ll recover in a few days. But if you hit it every day, it stops fighting you and starts building the recovery pathways to handle it. That’s literally what adaptation is.
I’ve been lifting daily for the past six months, sometimes even running two shorter sessions in one day instead of a single long one. The results? Faster progress, no more crippling soreness (because your body gets used to it), and way better mind-muscle connection. The whole “overtraining” scare is massively overstated, most people never get close to real overtraining. They’re just under-eating, under-sleeping, or doing garbage programming.
Here’s the trick: keep the sessions focused and don’t annihilate yourself every time. Frequency beats occasional destruction. Olympic lifters train multiple times per day and they’re some of the most jacked, explosive athletes on the planet. Why? Because constant practice builds skill and size.
So yeah, you could keep clinging to your precious rest days or you could actually teach your body to handle real work and stop leaving gains on the table.

>>76532744
>keep the sessions focused and don’t annihilate yourself every time.
So, lower intensity so you can larp as David Goggings 7 days a wekk

>>76531330
3 days of lifting and 3 days of cardio had you ""overtrained"" KEK

>>76532990
You will never look good

mfw dyels take pride in doing a shitload of "work" in the gym as if there was anything to be proud of
it's all about wearing your joints as little as possible while getting maximal gains and keeping a healthy lifestyle
not about "doing the work" you fucking tryhard juvenile cucks

>>76533045
You have bad athletic genetics btfo

>>76533045
Whatever you say bro. Don't mind me hitting the gym 6 days a week and fucking your mom for cardio. Absolutely no overtraining

>>76530590
They're both wrong and so are you.

Simply not true. I go 6 days a week and sometimes I simply can't recover without a deload. heck, my quads still burn from tuesdays leg day.

>>76533668
>>76533668
Its weird, if im bulking and need to grow delts ill just hammer them for a week and its like the muscle strain builds up and over the next ~4 days its all growth as long as youre bulking and not doing anything to break them down.

However, i was just bttw 5x/wk and i didnt notice but it made my frame grow but muscles nothing but density.

>>76533689
Do you train hard and track your workouts tho?? I feel like if I did that I'd just regress everyday.

I dont train for body building though. I generally do 8x3 for power lifting or just heavy singles and doubles.

I just cant see how someone can hit the same muscle group 4+ days in a row with high volume high intensity.

>>76526836 (OP)
Your own post is contradictory? Why shouldn't the guy deadlifting 4+ plates hit every muscle every day?
He'd become overtrained immediately. In your own post you admit it's something that's only feasible for beginners.

>>76533717
I need to do more powerlifting but my delts need work, nowadays i just do a few sets of powerlifting and then do supplemental work after. 8x3 is nuts i need to get back to bulking. Do you do that 1x then add aux or powerlifting only? I noticed size is plateauing now that its caught up to strength, and i need to rest more to get heavy at all.

And yeah looking back id definitely condense the lifting week into 2 pl days and more hyperteophy/strict work.

>>76526836 (OP)
I get tendonitis very easily. I have bicep tendonitis right now. I have a theory it's because my muscular strength grows very easily and my tendies just can't keep up.

>>76526836 (OP)
>*Destroys volume cattles, fitness influencers and Jewish media consumers by only sheer existence*

>>76534184
Try doing a bunch of 2-4rms im too lazy to do more than 6-8 and i grow biceps easily, tendons take closer to a month to fully recover if fucked and rehab is good whereas muscles are 90% in 1 week usually. Also more minerals/vits/fats/rest.

idiot here: do i count accessory exercises towards sets of a muscle group per week? Like if i squat 3 sets and then leg press 3 sets that's 6 sets total for quads but it'd only be 3 sets for hamstring?

>>76526836 (OP)
Intensity is the weight, intensity and muscle failure is what you should aim for.

If you workout 6x times per week I know you workout like a fucking pussy, full body is the most efficient way of working out, after that it is upper and lower 4x per week. If you don't believe in me, you r ignorant or just dumb, go study more.

>>76535575
I got stronger than ever on 6days and programs like Smolov have you squat x4 per week. Learn to program

More frequency is good.
More intensity is good.

Proof? Look at a fat man calves and a runner`s calves.

>>76530778
>Your 45 minute gym session isn't going to put you into over training,
Why not squat for 30 minutes every day then if that's not enough to overtrain?
>>76531388
>OP is right
>I mean overtraining is real
OP stated that there is no such thing as overtraining.
So, which is it?
>>76532074
>if you want to get better at something, you need to do it as much as possible.
Growing muscle isn't the same thing as learning to play an instrument.
>>76532328
>some ppl work 12 hour days doing physical labor lifting heavy shit all day long without being "cns fatigued"
They have nothing to measure CNS fatigue on because almost none of those people are lifting weights and actually tracking their strength which is the only way to measure CNS fatigue.
> I have no doubt in extreme cases that "overtraining" and "cns fatigue" exists
Contradiction after contradiction.
>but the average gym bro (99% of people) is no where near close to hitting that point.
How can you even tell?
>>76532706
Now stop doing manual labour for 60 hours a week and keep lifting to test whether or not you fatigue is just a meme.
>>76532744
>I stopped listening to people who train three times a week
That doesn't mean anything.
3h 3x a week full body?
PPL?
UL?
>The human body adapts way faster
Adapts to what and how?
>keep the sessions focused and don’t annihilate yourself every time.
Wait I thought your body was this magic machine that adapted to anything you threw at it, why pussy out and not annihilate yourself every day?
Wait is overtraining real and you need to worry about recovery now?
>>76533372
Physique checks out.
>>76534184
>>76534331
Neither of you can "grow easily".
>>76535610
Run it indefinitely then you should be hitting world records any time soon!

>>76526836 (OP)
Overtraining is when your accumulated fatigue is greater than your ability to recover