Thread 76607028

You don't need to lift weights quickly for hypertrophy, full stop.

>>76607028 (OP)
I hate these subtitles, they physically hurt to try to read.
anyone got a source vid?

>>76607028 (OP)
Bitch is a fucking NFL strength coach but doesn't know you gotta lift fast to get explosiveness and quick response time

>>76607421
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVGob8DrjDg

>>76607439
You're a bro
if you're op I withdraw my unuttered faggot accusation

>>76607439
tl;dw
what does he say?

>>76607028 (OP)
Close captioning is traditionally whole sentences on the screen at once. But now everyone is a tiktok brained retard with zero attention span and they can only process one or 2 words at a time
also
>dyel giving weightlifting advice

Wait till this guy finds out that brushing your teeth also causes enamel to be scratched or that walking puts your feet under tension. Yeah, no shit. Putting a barbell with 5 plates on it and moving it from point A to point B as fast as possible will cause a 'shearing force'. Isn't that the point? To cause a stress for the body to adapt to?

>>76607472
I wonder if the tiktok shitsubs actually require greater cognitive investment to pull a meaningful sentence from since you need to retain it all in your short term memory.
It certainly makes it way harder to pay attetion to anything else.

>>76607028 (OP)
>Strength training is hurting players because of 'sheering force'
>The majority of S&C Coaches in contact sports are fucking retarded and prescribe SSP with very low intensity and volume (Think shit like single leg, band-assisted snap down with 10 lb. weights in each hand)
>Greater majority of players are dumb niggers who don't understand exercising or weightlifting outside of curls and bench and just want to play their sport
>Mix in a egregious amount of steroids
>End up having torn ACLs, achilles, MCLs, and sport hernias because they neglected outside general training or better habits
>"oh but it's actually the shearing force lol"
Fuck off.

>>76607490
wut? power cleans and squats are a staple by college level american football players. most of the top prospects can power clean 400+ lbs

>>76607511
plenty of QBs cleaning 400 yep

>>76607516
Some qbs like jalen hurts can but a few positions no, punter kicker qb receiver but like 90% of the players on the field have elite strength

>>76607511
not anymore, more and more retarded s&c coaches coming in the field are turning them off for players and trying to sub them for shit like loaded jumps or contrast training

>>76607526
that's simply not true. in fact you frequently see their numbers flashed at draft day. most of these guys are the most elite athletes in the world. some are track champions as well. what they're doing is more exotic training on top of what they already do. because it works.

This guy gets paid more than you just to be incompetent.

>dissect somebody's tendon or ligament that goes through ballistic training on a continuous basis this is what you're going to see, you're gonna see accumulated tearing along the tendon
meanwhile, actual research on olympic weightlifters
https://doi.org/10.11114/jets.v7i6.4171
>The mean thickness of the quadriceps femoris tendon was significantly larger in the athletes than in the sedentary individuals
no mention of tendon damage, in fact the tendons are stronger due to adaptation

No pain, No gain!

>>76607537
the main problem with this kind of research is that in order to be an olympic weightlifter one has to already have exceptional tendon and ligament strength. it's hard to apply their physical ability to the general population. not arguing against the value of explosive training either just that kind of evidence is particularly poor and misleading

>>76607617
wait till you hear about NFL players

>>76607617
You're certain they didn't build it up with years of training? I don't think they just measure their tendons and start snatching 100s of kgs. They have really light pl8s to start with and a lot of practice to do from what I hear.

>>76607680
maybe you could compare their tendons against their parents?

>>76607680
Aside from what I already stated the other problem is that we don't know how many failed olympic weightlifters snapped their shit up and quit the sport. All we see here are the ones who survived the perils of the sport. I'm sure their tendons and ligaments adapted. I wouldn't assume the same of the general population

>>76607439
Only a couple of minutes in but good basic advice, don't do stupid meme exercises that put you at risk of injury.

>>76607767
he's an HIT guru with none of the cred that Mike Mentzer had, his entire theory about shear force is bullshit

>>76607534
Nah, it's totally true. There's still plenty of squatting, but trap bar deadlift is becoming the dominant lower body movement. There are still plenty of stalwarts, but there's a ton of morons who think elite athletes are somehow incapable of learning olympic lifts efficiently.

I follow the SUNY Buffalo S&C coach on ig (horton_barbell) and he spends a lot of time trying to convince people to use oly lifts and how to progress a beginner to them.

>>76607833
I'm sure the phenomenon you describe exists but power clean is a football staple that will never change. There's kids coming out of hs to play football power cleaning 400+. last college draft i watched they were quoting guys lifts numbers

>>76607439
40 minutes in he's citing a report claiming oly lifting is the most dangerous sport followed by powerlifing anyone want to chime in?

>>76607697
https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/FullText/2020/06000/Comparison_of_Plyometric_Training_With_Two.2.aspx
can't get more explosive than fucking depth jump training
>All subjects were physically active (students in sport science and physiotherapy), but none of them were previously involved in regular strength or plyometric training programs
>This study compared the influence of 10 weeks of plyometric training with 2 different jumping techniques on Achilles tendon properties and the height achieved in drop jumps (from 20, 40, and 60 cm) and countermovement jumps (CMJ)
>Achilles tendon stiffness increased (32%; p < 0.001) for the KE group but not for the KF group (11%; p = 0.28). There was a positive association (p < 0.001) between the changes in tendon stiffness and jump height for 20-cm drop jump in both KE group (r2 = 0.49) and KF group (r2 = 0.62). None of these parameters changed in CON group.
no way, tendon adaptations happen as a response to training, even in average people

>>76607928
I'm not sure why you think is an argument against anything I said. These average people aren't doing olympic weightlifting. Drop training is known to strengthen achilles.

>>76607913
and it was completely made up
https://doi.org/10.1136/bjsm.14.1.18
>the actual quote
so not about tendons nor weightlifting, the guy is completely full of shit

>>76607948
https://journals.viamedica.pl/folia_morphologica/article/view/19207/15928
keep on handwringing about survivorship bias when its obvious weightlifting is associated with tendon adaptation

>>76607954
>1977
>rotation and combined rotation flexion movements
Lol, they were doing 70s meme "exercises" like holding out dumbbells and twisting.

>>76607980
Billings was also misquoted, the single most common source of training injury? well apparently it was doing the actual sport lol

the point of strength and conditioning coaches is to make their players stronger with minimal to no injury risk, it's a stupid thing to have a multi million dollar player suffer an injury in training.

What this guy is saying does not apply to the general population, as higher forces tend to train muscle quicker. The average person isn't slamming into people at full speed on a regular basis.

this whole thread is niggas trying to justify swinging weights because they can't actually lift things so their ego is hurt.

>>76607028 (OP)
dude I fucking hate exercise science
nerds just overcomplicate literally everything
if you aren't an elite athlete then there is 0 reason to optimize training, just lift the weights and then add weight and reps over time

>>76607434
>explosiveness
Define explosiveness. If it's the ability to generate a lot of force in a short period of time. That means recruiting more motor units in a given muscle in a short period of time. Recruiting more motor units is a nervous system adaptation. Training the nervous system is task dependent. Moreover there are a lot of limits to what you can do. The body for the purpose of metabolic efficiency doesn't recruit any more motor units than is necessary for a task and even so. It will not use any more than a limited number of motor units at any time unless it absolutely has to such as during a 1RM attempt or lifting 85% to 90% of 1RM.

Moreover, we can also consider the reality that explosiveness is very much genetic. People who are professional athletes in more explosive sports likely were more predisposed to being explosive in the first place due to their heredity.
>quick response time
Extremely task dependent. The only real way to become more explosive and improve your response time in a given task is to practice that task.

The purpose of weight training for athletics is simply to improve a muscle's ability to generate force by growing the muscle. For non-roiders/non-bodybuilders who don't use tricks like mixing vegetable glycerine with your creatine to get more fluid into the muscle to increase their size, strength = size. Explosiveness is related to power. Power = force * velocity. More initial force = more velocity. If you increase force production, you increase power. The likelihood is that most of the increases in velocity are coming entirely from the increases in muscular size and that very little are the most you get from the nervous system during weight training and are very short term.

The speed you move depends entirely on the load. 50% 1RM can be moved extremely quickly, say explosively. Whereas moving 85% to 90% of 1RM will generally be very slow. This is just due to the initial acceleration.

>>76607028 (OP)
Does this guy even lift? And then hes teying to tell me how to lift? You must think im fucking stupid. Im gonna go jump in to my lambo and go to the booby bar to get drunk this shit is pissing me off.

>>76608690
>booby bar
Is it prime rib night at the booby bar?

This is so stupid, how are you going to strengthen tendons and ligaments?
Just sit on your ass all day to make sure you don't damage anything bro, obviously you don't want to micro tear your muscles.

>>76607972
>patellar ligament
>tendon adaptation
Tendons are not the same thing as ligaments. Tendons attach a muscle to bone. Ligaments attach bones to bones. It would be good to use the correct nomenclature.
>>76607913
It's a common nu-HIT tactic. Nu-HIT tends to advocate for super-slow reps which come from some guy who was working exclusively with old geriatrics in rehab. I think Assonovich or whatever his name is happens to be the only nu-HIT coach.

The reality is that olympic lifts are just dangerous without proper coaching, i.e. see your average cross-fit tard who goes to snap city because the idiot cross-fit coach thought it was a good idea to high rep cleans on a timer. With proper coaching and the years of preparatory form work with a broomstick, olympic lifting is quite safe. The real issue is that most athletes do not have the preparatory form work for something like a clean & jerk or snatch to do so safely. They'd be better off just doing more basic exercises like squat, deadlift, split squats on a smith machine, push-press, etc.

When it comes to any advantage, there's no evidence that olympic lifts will provide any advantage over other exercise choices. When it comes to coaches, it's just one group of coaches that religiously believe that oly lifts must be done and formed their own organization to try to legitimize their religion (the NSCA) and other coaches that don't hold those beliefs and just have their athletes do what they can reasonably do with good technique. Unfortunately the former is very loud and is much like the Scientology of strength and conditioning coaching.

>>76607972
There's no bias the data point is an obvious limitation and not included. If you're suggesting the average joe should do oly lifts for connective tissue bnefits you're straight up a mental case. Those trying to make millions of dollars and are genetically gifted should pursue psychotic training regimens

>>76607469
This but unironically.

A strength coaches job at this level is about doing whatever he can to minimize injury risk, even if it’s only by a small percentage it’ll add up eventually.

If these guys get hurt and are out of multiple games it can cost teams millions, even championships; if you can increase the odds of that not happening by even 2-3% it’s still totally worth it for the team to pay a you 300k+ salary.


A lot of pro coaches don’t even like their guys using free weights. A lot of pros train with bands.

>>76607028 (OP)
>because of the loaded implement you'll have to change your mechanics when you throw a heavier ball
>so really you only become better at throwing a heavy football!

heard this and stopped watching

this is not how technique and increasing resistance works

when you squat 100 pounds then 200 pounds, do the mechanics of the lift change in order to compensate for the increase in weight? no, the technique is the same, you just need to output more force to get the weight up, which is the same with a weighted football or whatever

loading a football with weight and having them throw it would just mean they throw that ball not as far but probably would let them throw the lighter ball further

if this guy were my coach id seek some outside help

The science based fags are now saying that "mechanical tension is what creates growth" and if that is true then why are we lifting weights instead of just vigorously stretching.

>>76609568
stretching is actually pretty valid and underrated

>>76609558
this one hes actually right about, theyve done plenty of experiments in track and field, training with heavier shots or javelins apparently doesnt work

>>76609568
I've stopped caring about this shit as a whole. If it's fun, challenging and I see progress I do it. Simple as. No need to overthink anything.

>>76607767
>>76607913
>Anons mind changes in real time

>>76610180
For baseball at least weighted throwing is very common

>>76607434
lift medium weights at fast speed
lift heavy weights at slow speed

>>76609568
Bruce lee got it right.
You can create mechanical tension without lifting weights

>>76610458
worse than being ineffective, isometrics are boring as hell

>>76610458
flex and stretch only masterrace

>>76610470
skill-issue