Thread 76743719

What THE FUCK /fit/.

>you told me for YEARS that CICO is the only thing that matters

You fucking lied.

>>76743719 (OP)
This is literally CICO, it's just saying that eating processed foods cause a lower CO

>>76743738
Never once have you cum guzzling FAGGOTS mentioned that 30% of protein calories get burnt up just utilizing it.

I've seen countless arguments of you fags sayin there's fundamentally no difference between pizza and chicken breasts, as long as the macros are the same. Well you're fucking WRONG

>>76743719 (OP)
None of this shit matters. Just don't eat like a fat retard and you won't be fat.

>>76743740
Nobody has said either of those things you retarded fucking faggot
If you eat like shit yes you're not going to lose weight as easily as if you eat healthy

>>76743719 (OP)
CICO doesn't mean "only go off of nutrition labels" everybody with half a brain knows those are bullshit. The principle is immutable. CICO.

>>76743740
I think you misunderstand why anyone would suggest pizza and chicken are the same. We often see fatties talk about how tough it is to lose weight. Many of us would love if they made balanced meals with protein, vegetables, and carbs. Sadly, this is not the case. So what do we do? We suggest that these fat losers simply eat less pizza than they were previously. Still not losing weight? Maybe try even less slices. Now, will this fatty be healthy or losing weight optimally? Of course not. I used to lose weight sometimes by having a heavy leg day and not eating enough because I got drunk instead and didnt hit a calorie surplus. Yes, 2,000 cal of papa johns isnt the same as salmon, rice, and veggies.

>>76743740
>fundamentally no difference between pizza and chicken breasts, as long as the macros are the same
There were a few hare brained experiments, showing you can lose weight eating trash.
The results were always good, as in yeah it works, but also bad: it's a pain, you'll be hungry all the time, and health markers take a turn for the worse.
Still they confirm what they wanted to confirm, but that's how far it goes. It's never been a good or sustainable diet, but if you have to it won't make you fat

>>76743719 (OP)
CICO is literally just the first law of thermodynamics. TEF counts towards the "CO" part of the equation. granted you can argue "CICO" is technically a tautology, but getting into the habit of reading nutrition labels, tracking your calories, etc... can be a solid starting point especially if you're currently on the "see food" diet.

personally, I always read nutrition labels but I don't really track calories. I just eat clean, make sure I hit my protein target, drink plenty of water, and make adjustment on a bi-weekly basis. It's done the trick for me and I hover between 15-20% BF (DEXA) with very little effort.

>>76743740
>you you you
Who's we?

>>76743719 (OP)
>retard doesn't realize thermic effect of digestion is part of calories out

>>76743719 (OP)
>trusting the AI that told people To put Elmer's glue on pizza.

>>76743719 (OP)
Do you think cico means food goes in poop comes out?
Digestion is part of your TDEE

CICO threads need to be banned they're so boring atp

>>76743740
>as long as the macros are the same.
protein is a macro ignoramus

CICO is a 100IQ take. its adequately well to say calories only matter when you dont have the time to go into more detail

120+ IQ Take (top 10% iq)
Junk food is not designed to be ingested by humans. Refined sugars, salts and saturate fats disrupts your hormonal profile which results in permanent (yes, permanent) changes to your body with the end result being a broken gauge for fullness and hunger. Disrupted ghrelin, insulin and leptin production in the body means your body can no longer take stock of how much bodyfat you have and because it cant detect bodyfat it assumes you must be starving and works hard to make you eat more because you are malnourished. (yes, obese peoples brains think they are starving paradoxically).

When death is on the cards to your brains mindset you cannot resist eating more. your brain will do whatever it takes to make you eat more. You can reverse some resistances by eating better, exercising and sleeping but you will never get your hormonal profile to before junk food addiction and results vary. Some people are doomed to be obese forever if their addiction and hormonal changes are particularly resistant to change once established


100IQ take (average 50% IQ)
You need to diet and exercise. CICO

90IQ and below take (Bottom 25% IQ)
If your fat its becoz you are a lazy fat fuck that should just stop putting food to your mouth idiot

>>76743719 (OP)
>processed foods have a lower thermic effect
this is such bullshit. processed is just a made up term that doesnt mean anything. its simply that fat has the lowest thermic effect (according to a quick google search fat is 0-3%, carbs are 5-10%, and protein is 20-30%) and foods that people call 'processed' are often high in fat. salting or smoking some meat (which is all that processing really is) isnt gonna change the fact that its fundamentally made of lots of protein that has a high thermic effect. you can heavily process a chicken breast and it will still have a lower thermic effect than a caloric equivalent amount of pecans. all that matters are the underlying macros, not whether or not something is this made up term 'processed'.

>>76743747
Average fat retard:
> yeah but HOW??????

Cico niggas be like

>the only way to get people out of this pool is to have fewer people enter than exit it
>”how do we do that?”
>it’s simple, you just let more people exit than enter
>”but what is the most efficient way to facilitate this process?”
>it doesn’t matter, all that matters is that less people come in than go out
>”surely there’s some sort of planning or logistical strategy we can use to facilitate the outflow of people while preventing congestion and long lines?”
>shut the fuck up, stop with your meme crowd management strategies, we just need to get more people out than are coming in. Everything else is secondary
>”but how do we do this?”
>dude the ONLY way to empty this pool is for more people to leave than enter, do you not understand the basic rules of thermodynamics?

>>76744743
>>76744701
90IQ

>>76744701
Eh, you'll never go back to before the addiction also because TIME HAS PASSED, you aren't getting any younger.
It's more useful to think that you can improve, and can get to a state better than the average bear of your age.
You aren't an athlete, you aren't a model, don't do impossible comparisons.

>>76744745
Lol you're fat as fuck

>>76744745
Yes this is exactly it. 100iq cico nigas are incapable of weighing up WHY people fail CICO.

If it was as simple as dieting working then nobody would be fat. Its WHY people cant stick to diets thats the problem. but 100iq people are a bit silly. They lack abstract reasoning and critical faculties.

Its when you get to 110-115 and above that people start to get thebigger picture. The downside is 9 out of 10 people arent that smart so they are doomed to shit out stupid takes.

>>76744745
anti cico niggas be like
>we need to get people out of the pool
>how do we do that?
>I'm not sure, science doesnt have the answers just yet, all i know is that the number of people entering and exiting the pool is irrelevant so we dont need to worry about that

>>76744748
its called being pragmatic. Im sorry if it hurts your feeling if being told that getting addicted to junk food has permanently damaged your brain. It has. Doesnt mean you cant improve and get better though

I used to do cocaine all the time. Same with beer. Same with other drugs. I dont anymore. Yes Im permanently damaged from it. I still havent given up though. Sometimes you gotta remind yourself just how badly youve fucked up doing something to never go back rather than pretending everythings OK

>>76744701
I lost like 20lb going to McDonald's at least 5 days a week. If you have one meal they sell a day and nothing else, you'll lose half a pound a day.

>>76744756
Another way I cope from fucking up to remind myself that life isnt perfect. Its easy to get caught up in this idea that we have to live life in this straight line where you progress, do well, progress, do well, progress do well, and if you fall down or live a life that isnt considered honourable then youre a loser

but nah Im alive, im working, I have goals and shit. Who cares if I die at 71 instead of 89 when life is winding down anyway. Life has been lived. Life isnt a perfection speedrun its different for everyone

Protein doesn't count as calories at all if you are actually /fit/.
All of it goes into repairing your cells instead of being destroyed and spent as plain energy.

>>76744756
This is not about me, it's about the way you're presenting the material.
It can be demoralising.
Don't play the fool, if you ignore that the way you present can change the way the message is received, you aren't any better than those guys cutting all nuance.
The message isn't the whole of the message.

>>76744756
You're actually braindamaged if you believe that junk food is a cause instead of a symptom of a deeper problem.
>>76744772
He's mentally ill, like all CICOtards who get off on insulting people who need help.

>>76744772
Fair enough. To be honest I copy pasted that excerpt from a thread I was posting in yesterday. The context was some anon posting a thread talking about how obesity is a medical process that is very hard to combat in the body and anons arguing that its simply a matter of CICO and stop being a fat weak person

So the context of the 120IQ section is to explain why fat people cant lose weight and why something like 70% of the western world is overweight or obese.

I mean look around you every other person is fat as hell. and its because our brains are fucked up from junk

>>76744773
>You're actually braindamaged if you believe that junk food is a cause instead of a symptom of a deeper problem.

??? The problem is megacorporations feeding us this shit to get us addicted to make a quick buck. Then theres the socioeconomical problems of being depressed and stressed on alow salary and other life obligations so you eat cheap nasty shit slop and then youre addicted

So yes the deeper problem is people being depressive but in my opinion all this junk food ADDICTIVE slop shouldnt exist in the first place. It should be recognised as a drug because thats exactly how it changes the brain

>>76744755
anti cico GODs are actually like:
>lets start by banning fat people from the pool to prevent congestion and long lines
>and close the pool on the weekends so people can't enter

genuine question is 4chan really full of absolute retards or is it mostly just people baiting? i find it hard to believe theres so many dumbasses on here but i also dont see what these people would get out of spending so much time baiting, it just doesnt seem that fun. any opinions?

>>76744783
point out the bait please. If its me I would like to engage in a healthy one sided argument about why youre wrong

>>76744776
>obesity is a medical process that is very hard to combat
This is objectively correct. There's no diet that can fix it, because the diet isn't a problem, it's a symptom that can be resolved when the real problem is addressed.
>>76744779
Are those megacorporations in your room right now, holding you at gunpoint?
Food isn't the problem here.

>>76744786
>This is objectively correct. There's no diet that can fix it, because the diet isn't a problem, it's a symptom that can be resolved when the real problem is addressed.

My belief though is we need to be looking into how to stop people being fed this addictive slop that cements the addiction when they're kids. Its like making a child an alcoholic for a like subset of this population it doesnt matter if their life sucks or not they will still struggle to modulate their weight control. Feeding kids refined sugar is child abuse straight and simple.

>Are those megacorporations in your room right now, holding you at gunpoint?
Junk Food is addictive.

>>76744781
anti cico niggas be like
>hmm, if we just ban the fatties, and dont let people in on the weekends, then we can let as many skinny people in during the weekdays as we like and the pool will NEVER be overcrowded!!!

>>76744783
It's mostly retards on /fit/, mostly shills on some other boards though. Anticico are retards who refuse to believe they were born in an unjust world where they're allowed to eat doritos and get fat.

>>76744784
nigga shut up

>>76744786
the problem is toddlers drinking coca cola. Theyre unironically fucked for life if they do this and so many stupid parents feed their kids refined sugar thinking its OK

I guarantee if you look at the amount of obese people that were fed sugar heavy diets as childrten its likely 80%+

>>76744784
>he implicitly knew that the person ambiguously calling one side the retards/baiters was referring to the anti-cico side

>>76744792
>stop people being fed
Now we're getting somewhere. Indeed, people should have some agency and instead of being fed, they should feed themselves.
This requires a lifestyle change, a diet change cannot fix it.
>Junk Food is addictive.
There's no such thing as addictive substance, there's only personality traits that manifest as severe mental illnesses.
>>76744801
No, the problem is stupid parents with no goal in their own life or care for future of their kids.
This isn't about cola itself, this is about fundamental lack of purpose in life.
You can eat a broccoli, but that won't fix the fact that you're still stupid, lazy and demotivated. Junk food to these people is a cope mechanism, if you take it away, they will just suffer more, without resolving the actual problem.

>>76744810
Your take is more libertarian than mine in the sense that you think all humans have the right to take junk food and also can modulate their input of junk food

I disagree and think that fat people are essentially vulnerable people that are too quote 'weak' to help themselves. This isnt an insult but more that fat people are like drug addicts that simply cant stop doing what they're doing despite ruining their lives because theyve gotten addicted to a refined substance like sugar and saturate fats.

I think radical change is necessary to stop obesity such as banning junk food as it exists today and forcing all food to be healthy. You might not agree but if 70% of the population is overweight then it shows that humans do not have the capability to handle this substance that is refined sugar

>>76744781
Anti-CICO incels are in fact more like:
>the only way to get people out of this pool is to have fewer people enter than exit it
>how do we do that?
>stop kidnapping people off the street and forcing them to enter the pool at gunpoint
>ok, but what's our plan for managing that?
>wtf bro literally just stop violently kidnapping these people and forcing them into the pool, why are you even doing this shit?
>sweaty that's not actionable advice, give me some sort of long term plan on how to accomplish that
>whenever you feel like pulling a gun on someone, yelling "GET IN THE POOL" and pistol whipping them if they hesitate, just don't do it
>I'm done here, your advice is useless!

>>76744818
Ok I change my mind. Dont necessarily ban all junk food but junk food should be healthier than it is today. Everything doesnt have to be loaded with sugar

But you see this is why it will never happen unless radical legislation change occurs. Because if one company decides to reduce their sugar in their food then nobody will buy it and their competitions will succeed with their unchanged recipe

Ban disgusting junk food, food reform is needed

>>76744818
>banning junk food
because it worked for drugs, right?

Real solution would be eugenics and or forced manual labor for anyone who is unfit.

>>76744820
>incels
didnt read your post
[-]

>>76744823
>>76744822

yeah but with junk food why do we have to have it lining the shelves li

>>76744824
Anti-CICO gentlemen are in fact more like:
>the only way to get people out of this pool is to have fewer people enter than exit it
>how do we do that?
>stop kidnapping people off the street and forcing them to enter the pool at gunpoint
>ok, but what's our plan for managing that?
>wtf bro literally just stop violently kidnapping these people and forcing them into the pool, why are you even doing this shit?
>sweaty that's not actionable advice, give me some sort of long term plan on how to accomplish that
>whenever you feel like pulling a gun on someone, yelling "GET IN THE POOL" and pistol whipping them if they hesitate, just don't do it
>I'm done here, your advice is useless!

>>76744827
Because processed food is unironically GOAT for fit people who spend their weekends hiking and climbing in the mountains.
>low weight
>tiny bags
>lots of energy

>>76744829
>stop kidnapping people off the street and forcing them to enter the pool at gunpoint
That's just eating. The pool is your body and the people are food. Kidnapping is buying donuts and forcing them to enter the pool is putting them in your mouth.

Once you get to 1200 calories just stop doing that and you'll lose weight.

>>76744831
Imagine if you had to get tested for lean body mass % before buying ultraprocessed sloppa... VGH...

>>76744831
I dont think thats a valid excuse. Junk food will be one of the proponents that is actively ruining peoples lives and since most people start their food addiction as small children it is sad that all these people have busted hormone profiles before theyre even an adult with their own free will. Then its too late.

>>76744840
Yeah that's the point of the analogy lil bro.

>>76744840
somehow in a thread full of anti-cico niggas you still managed to make the most retarded post

>>76744843
People are ruining their own lives, it's actually great for me that junk food is highly accessible and cheap, because I don't have to worry about what I will eat on a camping trip.

I must say though with that anon im debating with you might have caused a bit of a thought breakthrough with me.

I was thinking how alcohol is all over shelves after thinking about banning junk food slop. Why is it that alcohol lines the shelves? well my opinion is that its a means of population control Some peoples lives are horribly fucked beyond repair due to social factors, health factors, trauma and the like. These people will drink themselves to death. Without a cope that keeps them ticking along day to day they will either get violent, kill themselves, or act out very erratically.

Theres less violent examples too. Like people who work shit jobs with shit lives. These people rely on drug addictions to get through their existence. It sounds horrible but yes that then goes to the anons point that the problem here is the reason that has driven them to this cope.

So yes I agree on that point. Junk food is another means of cope. But we must ban junk food for kids! It is literally ruining them for life, and then theyre another drug abuse statistic

>>76744829
cico niggas be like
>dude we just need to let less people in the pool
>close the pool for a few days?
>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT THEN THE POOL WALLS WILL COLLAPSE IF THERES NO ONE SWIMMING IN THERE AND THE MOON PHASE IS GOING TO BLOW UP THE POOL AND AS SOON AS WE OPEN IT BACK UP THE POOL WILL FLOOD NOOOOOO

>>76744850
>close the pool for a few days?
Yeah sure you can do that. You could also stop literally kidnapping people off the street and forcing them to enter the pool at gunpoint. Why don't you do that?
t. CICOchad

>>76744849
But now we get to the real substance. The iossue is nobody cares and its hard to address so youre shit out of luck

The guy with trauma who wants therapy, psychoanalysis, friends and a family and a life thats worth living how the fuck do you give that to him? It would take teams of people working aroudn the clock helping him to get on steady feet and people just dont have time to do that to a stranger

But a 6 pack of beer? Its so easy to give that to him and send him on his way. Until he comes back tomorrow withj the same problems. Heres another 6 pack guy, try to keep your head above the water.

Anyway junk food is a bit like that for a lot of people. Eat that pizza and unwind tonight

>>76744856
>The guy with trauma who wants therapy, psychoanalysis, friends and a family and a life thats worth living how the fuck do you give that to him?
Fascism.

>>76744846
>somehow in a thread full of anti-cico niggas you still managed to make the most retarded post
No I didn't. I did make a mistake, because I thought it was an anti cico post, because it didn't make any sense. You have valid points presented as something an anti cico retard would say portraying their opposition. Bad greentext.

>>76744860
first of all it wasnt me who posted it. 2nd of all youre a retard because you couldnt figure out what that anon was saying. 3rd of all youre a retard because you implied that you should stop eating at just 1200 calories if you want to lose weight which is horrible advice for 95% of the population.

>>76744866
>3rd of all youre a retard because you implied that you should stop eating at just 1200 calories if you want to lose weight which is horrible advice for 95% of the population.
Are anti-cico retards 95% of the population? No, they're the ones who use 2oz butter to fry an egg and count it as 80cal total and say counting calories doesn't work. If they aim for 1800 they'll eat 2900. And you sound suspiciously like one of them.

>>76744871
Counting calories doesn't work.
Luckily I never had to count them.

>>76744876
>Counting calories doesn't work.
Exactly. And it does.
>buh sometimes people just shit them out
Not if you don't eat them.

>>76744871
this nigga got this butthurt because i called him a retard on 4chan

>>76744880
I count lean muscle mass and how much I can bench and how much protein I need to maintain it, calories are for anorexic women and my boyfriend who I fuck daily.

>>76743719 (OP)
I mean IIFYM is more accurate
Hormones don't work right without enough fat and good carbs

>>76744887
It works for weight loss, and exercise. If you were 500lb or endurance training, simple and effective.

>>76744895
I don't want to lose my muscle and bone density, so no, it doesn't work for me.

>>76743719 (OP)
What do you think the "out" part means? Do you really think the body spends the same amount of energy each day regardless of the type and amount of food?

>>76744898
>I don't want to lose my muscle and bone density, so no, it doesn't work for me.
Are you 500lb or endurance training?

>>76744900
No, I'm 80kg and 5'7 manlet who wants to lift stuff and feel good in daily life.
I used to weigh 89kg and I lost 9kg just by going outside more, didn't change my diet at all.
I only started lifting later, and then I had to change diet to hit my macros, but never once did I count a single calorie.

>>76744907
Missed the point. If you have energy concerns, as described, counting cals works.

>>76744948
I'm glad you found a way to direct your autism towards a healthier life, but for me? I just simply add more rice and eat some candy when I feel like it's not enough.

>>76744956
>I'm glad you found a way to direct your autism towards a healthier life, but for me? I just simply add more rice and eat some candy when I feel like it's not enough.
I was never talking about you you fucking dunce. It's useful for situations and if you're not in those situations gtfo

>>76744701
https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39

IQ is a bugman take

>>76744971
IQ to intelligence is like calories to diet, unironically.

>>76744982
Calories are a physical measure of energy as processed by the human body. An IQ number doesn't measure anything except a person's relation to other people who have taken an IQ test.

>>76744992
Human body isn't a physics equation, retard. It's chemistry, and chemistry doesn't care how much energy is spent or wasted or whatever, fuck off retard.

anti-cico niggas be like
>right, we have a stadium with a capacity of 40,000 people. we want to fill it up with only the highest quality people so that everyone inside is safe and has a good time
>how do we do that?
>how about we only let white people in? they cause crime at lower rates.
>ok, that sounds like a good idea
>alright, lets do it then. I'll sell 100,000 tickets to white people?
>wait, 100,000? dont you think that might cause issues? thats far more than our capacity, it could be a fire hazard, and it could cause a crowd crush.
>don't worry, they're all white, so its safe to let 100,000 of them in. in fact, because they're bringing in so much money, i'll sell 150,000 tickets to white people
>hang on, our stadium really isnt graded for that many people. the stands will collapse under the weight of that many people
>200,000 tickets. its only being sold to white people, so it can only be a good thing to let more of them in

>>76745033
>white people will stand in lines and proceed out the exit without making a scene and causing damage
>or they'll leave the lines
yup, sounds right to me

>>76744831
Based simple carb nature enjoyer.

>>76743912
>20% bf
fatty