Anyone else finds online discussions about Red Hat products kinda creepy? So much astroturfing. It's something I expect from fake grassroot political campaigns. Not software. We are so fucked.

>>105566250 (OP)
arent they like the biggest corpo distribution and actually make money? astroturfing makes sense or just a lot of satisfied employees shilling for free because they want to keep a steady stream of clients

>>105566250 (OP)
Red Hat/IBM is in bed with the NSA and US Army. What do you expect?

nigger

nig
gg
er14r5t6y

I like that kind of stuff because it's a red flag that I can easily notice and thus know what to avoid.

>>105566267
based
>>105566278
cringe

>>105566250 (OP)
Red hat and GNOME are the apple of the Linux world, their fans will eat any slop their mastes throw at them and call you an idiot if you think the slop tastes bad.
Just listen to this shit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E6rC-XswtfU

>>105566250 (OP)
>look at this huge fucking strawman I've been waiting to pull out!

>>105566250 (OP)
They do all that shit because one maintainer who forked xorg? They must be really scared, almost like their livelihood is at stake. I dont recognize Linux community anymore, almost like there is some kind of cult or mafia in the background.

>>105566283
How do you avoid all their shit? They have their hands in everything.

>>105567026
Embrace Open/NetBSD. FreeBSD used to be okay too but they got their fingers into it awhile back and it's run by massive faggots now. They pay some woman that doesn't know shit millions of dollars a year to give talked about diversity in tech. She's on stage at a FreeBSD con using a Mac to give presentation and openly admits she's never used the OS. But for some reason the foundation pays her more than all the developers combined. They added a CoC based on Geek Feminism's 5 or 6 years ago too.

But assuming you're willing to hack and HAVE to stay on Linux for whatever reason: Grab Gentoo stage3. Ignore the "desktop" repos. Install minimal/OpenRC. Set up Portage to use GURU. Get the s6 overlay to purge OpenRC+all the systemd shit it loads off the system. Set up static /dev or use mdev. Set up old school setuid Xorg or figure out how to get Xenocara from OpenBSD running on it. Use any non-Gnome/KDE based DE (I suggest skipping DE all together and using a basic WM like dwm). If you _really_ want "seat management" then opt for seatd instead of elogind/logind.

It will take you a few days to get it up and going probably but once you do it should chug along fine until the "Gentoo devs" (read: jannys) try to sneak in more systemd shit into the non-systemd profiles and break everyone else's shit because they're paid by Red Hat and Google to do that (Google runs the project for the last several years btw).

Don't bother with the forums or IRC channels. They're filled with retards because they banned everyone of value about 3-4 years ago.

Or skip all that bullshit and just use OpenBSD. If you need more than it offers: FreeBSD. But you'll spend about as long unfucking it and getting it into usable state. NetBSD might be okay too but it doesn't have some of the stuff FreeBSD offers.

I've been hoping someone would fork FreeBSD and add the OpenBSD stuff to it and refuse to merge in all the crap from Linux the FreeBSD people insist on shoving into the OS lately.

>>105567231
What gpu is best with openbsd? I assume my nvidia one won't have its drivers. Does it support vulkan? It's a shame what you say about gentoo, it's really going to start getting worse?

>>105567231
Note that if you desire gaming FreeBSD is really your only choice. You can play most everything Linux supports with FreeBSD via its Ubuntu/Linux binary emulator. It offers very good VM as well of course and much better system for "containers" than Linux does (they're called Jails and they were part of the OS decades before Linux got shit like Docker).

The main issue with FreeBSD is as follows:

1) The developers don't run it on their own systems
2) It comes with a lot of crap you don't want in the default config (like 3 firewalls. Uninstall all of them but pf)
3) The shit it imported from other systems like pf is generally years behind the upstream and badly configured
4) It doesn't ship with Xorg by default so you have to install it from ports and set it up yourself
5) The "community" is full of the same faggots that ruined linux and has all of the same problems
6) Worse hardware support that Linux kernel. But generally you can use Linux drivers with a little work.

FreeBSD is the best thing going through if you need gaming support at the moment. If you don't care about gaming and you're not a massive faggot that needs your bluetooth headphones (meaning you use wires like a smart person) then OpenBSD is by far the best out of the box experience of all UNIX OSs. It ships with a good default config. It installs X11 for you by default too. It has the best man pages/docs of anything I've ever used. The people in the IRC channel and on the mailing lists are helpful. Development is always active and they refuse to accept any bullshit. They've even been banned from coming to the same secret meetings for CPU vendors as everyone else because they refused to leave their users exploitable via unannounced CPU bugs. The project leader is an asshole and proud of it. But he's the best kind of asshole. Everyone dislikes him because he doesn't fluff anyone's balls or put up with bullshit. Hardware support is _really_ good.

>>105566250 (OP)
Duh. Reddit is an A.I. bot website.

They built and own Linux (except android which is its own planet); it's their home, they let you enter but will kick you out if they want.

>>105567280
Gentoo has been bad for awhile. All us old guys got booted from the forums in like 2016 or so for daring to speak out against what the current "developers" that control the project were doing. A google employee openly bragged about banning everyone and deleting the "off topic" forum several years ago. Same shit they always do when they censor. They claimed it was over
>muh Trump muh politics
but the real reason was they banned all discussion about systemd (aside from praise) on the technical forums. So everyone ended up doing it in the off topic forum. Since users were constantly patching Gnome and other shit to work without systemd and doing various other "anti-systemd" things like making elogind and discussion could only happen in the "off topic" forum they decided to purge the entire forum one day and blamed it on the ranting about politics thread. When we all made our own forum and moved over to it they ddos'ed it off the internet multiple times until the admin gave up.

For OpenBSD if you need a modern GPU then you probably want AMD. I run it on an AMD GPU and everyone just werks out of the box. Although I've made some modifications to the usual X config files (Tearfree etc.). OpenBSD has better GPU driver support than the other BSDs because they maintain their own fork/patch set for X11. Yes Vulkan is fully supported. Anything that's supported in Linux is pretty much supported in OpenBSD because they port over everything every 6 months or so.

There is no support for Nvidia beyond basic framebuffer sorry. You want Intel and/or AMD on modern x86-64 systems. OpenBSD supports tons of older hardware though so maybe some 20+ year old Nvidia stuff like the original Geforce 256 is fully supported. But I've never attempted to install it on older x86 stuff.

>>105567330
I'll have to give it a try, I haven't run BSDs since before I switched to gentoo long ago. I don't mind getting an old amd card, I just have a 2070 super I got for $50, I'm not wanting top of the line or anything. I just asked about vulkan because I've been messing around programming 3d visualizations using it. I currently run fvwm & have the setuid xorg. I haven't switched away from openrc, but I did try s6 when I put obarun on a laptop once.

>>105567330
Is this real? Why couldn’t I find anything about it?

>>105567330
>Anything that's supported in Linux is pretty much supported in OpenBSD
Note I'm referring to graphics here of course. I'll give you a run down of some other differences:

1) OpenBSD project will remove old/bad code instead of leaving it around to rot if no one is interested in maintaining it. This is why there is no longer bluetooth support (you're welcome to improve the existing buggy implementations and submit them. They will get accepted if they're good)
2) Many linuxisms like wpa_supplicant for wifi aren't in the base system or in ports. In OpenBSD wifi is supported through drivers. So setting it up is really easy assuming your wireless card has driver support. Most of the common chipsets have it. If your chipset isn't currently supported you can donate hardware and someone will likely port over a driver for you. Most people in that position buy a usb dongle instead because they're cheap. My laptop's chipset is an Intel one and has really good support out of the box so I don't have this problem.
3) Concerning networking: in OpenBSD we still use ifconfig instead of whatever linux is using this month (it changes constantly). Setting up network/automatic fall over/bridges/etc is really easy. Man pages cover everything and it isn't a big pain like on Linux (and FreeBSD).
4) All applications in base/ports use something called pledge and unveil to drop privileges (restricted syscalls) and not allowing applications to see the entire file system. Most of the time the defaults are good and you don't have to modify these. But for some stuff you might need to make one-two line change in a config file. For example, on my system Firefox can't see files anywhere but /Downloads/ in my home dir.
5) You do not google when you need help. You consult the man pages. In OpenBSD is the man pages aren't correct it's considered a massive bug. The man pages alone are worth using the OS.

>>105567463
You'll like OpenBSD then. fvwm is the default WM in base.

>>105567478
https://archives-cdn-origin.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/5284753.ZASKD2KPVS@farino/

>>105567505
He’s a physicist. Not a googler.

>>105567478
The off topic forum was legit overtaken by white supremacists and conspiratards during COVID; it had to go.

>>105567478
You want to hear about some more faggotry in Gentoo? I'll give you one more example. Although there are many many more.

The reason systemd has creeped into the OpenRC profiles is due to the fact that one guy sits on the OpenRC repo and refuses patches. Then declares that

1) No one wants to maintain it
2) It's buggy and insecure

A patch for OpenRC tmpfiles sat in there for years that he refused to merge. Even though the GURU repo had it included for years and most of the long time users had switched to using that version of OpenRC due to this issue and several other "improvements" this idiot added to OpenRC himself.

One day they send out notice to all users that there is "massive security bug in OpenRC tmpfiles" so their solution was
>we're going to use systemd's tmpfiles from now on.
The funny part? The systemd version had _the exact same bug_ along with about 5 more. Which sucked because now a major part of the OS was being maintained outside of Gentoo's trees. So the users had no way to fix it. Not that the patch would have been accepted anyway...

The project is nothing like it was years ago when I started using it. A small group of people gained control of the council through shady politics and has forced change after change on to the users against the community's wishes. Anyone that speaks out gets the ban hammer.

There are tons of people gloating about their Gentoo install being "systemd free" because it uses OpenRC init. They're too dumb to realize half the systemd tree is being loaded at boot because that's all Gentoo's non-systemd profile is now. It's a bunch of crap like logind being loaded by OpenRC despite the community homebrewing software for years and offering good advice for why 99% of people don't need something like logind on their system in the first place. It's basically Fedora from source at this point.

>>105567523
Read the thread. You are aware Gentoo is what ChromeOS is based on, right?

>>105567538
>post about Gentoo being run by faggots
>faggots with google alerts set up show up within minutes
EVERY TIME. I like how you used the exact same talking point I brought up to attempt to justify censorship of a forum that existed for 20+ years. Like the one thread with people ranting was harming anyone.

Imagine if in the projects early days some faggot working for a big tech company showed up and said
>The off topic forum was legit overtaken by white supremacists and conspiratards during the second Iraq war that ranted about Bush Jr. and claimed the NSA was reading our emails

Fucking retarded faggot.

>>105567568
Damn, can't someone fork gentoo? I like portage and I need to stick with linux. What options are there?

>>105567591
You seems to be a fine being, definitely the kind we would want to work with us.

>>105567629
>work with us
Wat.

>>105567629
Glow harder

Rust and Red Hat.
It's whatever, let Linux die.
It's full of troon politics now.

>>105567624
The nature of Gentoo is you don't really have to fork it. The issue is chasing the constant churn of Linux and patching around the various major projects that define its "core" these days. Even the kernel is filled with shit you don't want on your system now and it will only get worse.

There are various groups of users maintaining their own patch sets and repos to avoid most of the bad stuff. But it gets harder with each passing year. Good luck finding out about most of them though when the forum and wiki are both censored. Since everyone that wants to talk about it is labeled a
>conspiracy theorist
by the same faggot that showed up here the moment this was mentioned. You can't even talk about it in an unrelated thread on an imageboard now. Since these faggots use tools like Google alerts to constantly find discussion about what they're doing to the project and their own names/usernames.

Up until about 2014 or so (basically when systemd first started getting forced on everyone) the forum was a place where it didn't matter what you were doing. Everyone was free to discuss and help each other. Now the Gentoo discussion channels are censored so hard and flooded with these idiots that no discussion or real work can happen. As I said before. When a bunch of grey beards tried to fuck off to their own forum to continue working together it was ddos'd off the web multiple times. Which is what happens in most every hobby now when people go against the "mainstream". You can't even run a nyaa tracker clone these days without people spending hundreds of dollars a month to shut it down.

>>105567629
Already having to resort to attacking the author I see. Have fun desperately attempting to dox me.

>>105567641
I told you already. It's one of the people mentioned in the mailing list thread I linked. They have google alerts set up so they can do damage control here any time it's posted.

>>105567664
>j-just give up goy!
No.

>>105567665
>You can't even run a nyaa tracker clone these days without people spending hundreds of dollars a month to shut it down.
Wait, nyaa is evil too?

>>105567703
Ok? Idk why you would associate with this ecosystem for anything other than required by profession.

>>105567704
The current "cabal" that runs nyaa also runs the private trackers like AB. When the original nyaa went down anons here worked together to make their own tracker. Which was ddos'd off the internet by said "cabal". Haven't you noticed that the only thing on nyaa is

1) CR/Amazon rips with shitty subtitles
2) The same handful of "fansub" groups that can't speak Japanese

Why do you think registration has been closed forever? It's how they control access to uploading so groups outside of their friends can no longer participate. They openly sell accounts for hundreds of dollars a pop then turn around and ban them if they dislike what's being uploaded on them. It isn't just nyaa either. It's all the "best groups" lists and pretty much everything else. They even gatekeep access to the automated software for downloading torrents to ensure the same shitty groups are listed at the top. It's why an actual fansub group gets like 5 downloads while the crappy rip with horrible encoding and subtitles edited by some ESL has 5,000 seeds. If you don't believe me simply go to the discord servers they're always shilling. If you lurk for 5 minutes you'll notice a pattern (hint: none of them are really women)

>>105566250 (OP)
you must respect redskirt
you must respect systemd
you must respect gnome

>>105567664
>woke people are there, just quit
yes and let the woke people fully take over with less resistance. this will surely be a good long term plan. handing woke people so many easy wins.

>>105567739
Sad if true. I've always assumed I can find everything anime in nyaa.

>>105567568
Saved. Thanks anon.

>>105566250 (OP)
why did you make me to read a stupid fucking reddit screenshot

>>105567759
If you don't know Japanese I guess it isn't as obvious. I'll tell you what happened the last time I came out of retirement for two shows. Basic run down:

>I was accused of being a bigot for translating a joke correctly (anime girl said nigger)
>I was accused of being right wing bigot for translating joke correctly (anime girl said faggot)
>I was accused of being sexist for translating joke correctly (anime girl made fun of other anime girl (boy) for "sitting like a girl")
>The comments of my release were flooded by "trusted users" claiming I hid a virus in the mkv files
>My 10+ year old account for banned
>My friend's account was banned when he reuploaded the torrents with the files I'd released through XDCC
>Some faggot with anime girl avatar made youtube video where they "compared" my release to the CR subtitles. They cut off the top of the screen to TL notes weren't shown then claimed I translated something incorrectly. They also claimed that CR "did it better" because I did literal translation at bottom of the screen and something similar to CR's take at the top (it was a joke that only made sense in Japanese so it needed to be explained. It was the only real way to do it correctly. I don't spam TL notes).
>An "expert encoder" that didn't know basic things about video codecs claimed I did a bad job because I didn't shit all over the art work like he did with an aggressive set of filters and didn't use the "correct codec settings" because all of them believe incorrect information that was posted 15+ years ago on some blog
>When my releases were uploaded to other sources they tried to use their influence to have it banned there too because "spooky virus in mkv files" (I embedded an image as an attachment and a txt file making fun of them)
>more stuff not worth mentioning
It was fun reading them getting all angry in their private chats though.

I don't fansub very often. If you watch anime you should learn to speak moon desu.

>>105567747
They've already won. Linux is pozzed. Look at the state of this dogshit industry.

>>105566325
KDE already announced deprecation of Xorg. They are not much better.

>>105567832
KDE/Qt has never been good. It only looked better lately because it was being compared to modern GTK/Gnome. The reason Gnome/GTK existed in the first place was due to shit like Qt being tied to commercial interests. There was a time in the long long ago when GTK was great and gaining momentum. The design of Gnome was very good and it was focused on pleasing end users. As usual like every other thing the community created it was usurped and taken over from the inside then sabotaged.

In the early 2000s people flat out refused to run anything that used Qt and for very good reasons. We had GTK2 and if you refused to use it your software was probably not worth using in the first place. People would fork stuff to make it work with GTK2 because that's how strongly most of the people using Linux felt about polluting their systems with Qt shit.

>>105567861
when kde first started, qt was proprietary software. gnome was initially a straight up clone of kde using a modified version of the toolkit created by gimp (which is why "gtk" became "gtk+")
qt later became free software so there was no need for gnome to exist anymore, but what can you do

>>105567811
Guess we just give up then?

>>105567883
Qt isn't "free software" in the sense that places like the FSF means. It's still tied heavily to commercial interests and if you want to make money from anything you've built using it you have to pay them a lot of money. It's also a horribly designed toolkit that always mostly focused on running on Windows. Linux was just an afterthought because it also wanted to support commercial UNIX OSs that were still being used on a lot of workstations in companies back then (before Linux replaced most of them).

Gnome wasn't really a "straight up clone". It was just a "clone" of the basic GUI most people were used to at the time (Windows 9x/NT). It also focused solely on the "linux desktop" so things could be integrated more tightly with the basic daemons in use at that time. Although back then more care was taken to ensure things would run on other things like BSD for ease of porting software to all UNIX systems.

My greater point: It wasn't some project being run by Red Hat attempting to dictate to the users how the GUI should function. It was designed with the ability to customize and use plug-ins in mind. So every distro could do as they pleased. The toolkit wasn't weaponized and being used against the community to drag them kicking and screaming into using software they didn't want.

>>105567924
>Gnome wasn't really a "straight up clone". It was just a "clone" of the basic GUI most people were used to at the time (Windows 9x/NT).
no i do mean it looked just like kde, not just that it was also a "traditional desktop" (ie a win95-alike). sure it was never identical, but it looked more like kde than anything else

>>105567920
Come home, white man.
https://www.openbsd.org/

>>105567924
and yea i do agree that Qt isn't "community-driven", but then neither is gnome/gtk these days
it's also important for projects to be lead by people who are willing to accept patches for things people besides themselves want, otherwise there's not much point in it being free software. i agree with that

Isn't it worrisome that openbsd uses clang?

>>105567811
The amount of pushback is huge and growing. Give up if you want, I guess. I don't understand how 'defeatist' attitude is a long term winning move.

>>105568101
It's just the same people pivoting to another talking point because they see that opposition to what they're doing isn't working. They want to discourage hackers outside of their circle form hacking.

Another anon asked about forking Gentoo (or any other distro). There is no reason why you need to do an actual fork. You can use any package manager+the kernel+GNU tools and roll your own distro out of an existing one. It isn't hard. In fact, with Gentoo it'd be very easy to just set some default USE flags and pull different default packages to have a what amounts to a fork without changing any of the underlying code at all.

What I would like to see in the long run;
>A good team rolls a new sane config for the Linux kernel. Assuming things get worse (Rust in kernel for example) they either exclude those modules or cut that code out of their version of the kernel. Which is a 'fork' without writing any code at all.
>The same team builds a base system around the above with a sane default config+packages. Which should include Xenocara or some version of Xorg along with the usual GNU tools and some scripting languages (if you use portage you'll need python of course)
>Use s6 as the init and provide services for packages in base. Shepard might also be an option to consider. But s6 is more mature imo.
>Arcan/A12 tools in base along with a new WM/DE to take advantage of what it can do with sane default config
>Copy the BSD concept of non-base packages being in /usr/local/bin instead of mixing them with base packages in /usr/bin. Also ability to have split /usr by default
>Use ZFS as default file system.
>Port over a lot of the good stuff from OpenBSD for the base system/kernel: pf, pledge/unveil, mg, ifconfig, maybe sndio, and various other tools they've created over the years.
>wine is base so you can run Windows software/games out of the box.
>Ignore licensing all together and run it as an "outlaw" distro. Mix BSD and GPL shit freely
(cont.)

Is there a single linux distro or even any OS which isnt backdoored

>>105566325
what in the world is this globohomo speak, holy shit

>>105568835
>For our Arcan DE/WM: Build an easy to use control panel GUI for common tasks. Which can also be adjusted from CLI. Basically copy OpenBSD's sysctl but give it a GUI for people that want to do it with a mouse.
>The above should include an easy way to adjust kernel settings ala what the *BSDs use to set various things
>Good man pages for everything in base. Everything is required to be documented well. Should be able to hack on/configure system without needing an internet connection. Again copy the OpenBSD way when it comes to man.
>VMs included in base system with easy GUI to configure them.
>Ability to access and host fully p2p repos/packages. Our users can distro pre-built configs for games and stuff that extract .exes and drop them in the correct places for wine to run them. We don't have to worry about it being "illegal" since it isn't hosted on the project's main repos
>A good updating process/scripts. Again copy OpenBSD's. Use should be able to run "sysupgrade" and it'll pull down new kernel+base system, reboot, install it, reboot again and come up into desktop without breaking everything.
>Release stable kernel+base every 6 months-1 year. Offer snapshots of -current that are no more than a day behind master repo. Support -stable for 2 years and backport security fixes to it.
>Multimedia shit in base system (mpv, ffmpeg, codecs etc.) Users should be able to watch videos and play their audio files without installing stuff from ports
>Full freedom to fuck around and break the OS if the end users want. We support base config but we're okay with them going their own way. This is good for a variety of reasons. Mostly because it keeps everyone happy.

Note we'd have no issue with "out of tree" shit for the kernel like ZFS because we're shipping our own config of it anyway. If upstream decides to be dicks we just fork away and take whatever we want from newer kernel releases coming out of LKML for our own. I have more but this is already too long.

>>105568849
No. Modern computers/devices aren't backdoored at the OS level primary anyway. Although multiple backdoors and exploits put there on purpose exist in them (systemd being prime example) the main way spooks get into modern devices is through CPU level exploits.

On all modern CPUs there is an entire OS running in Ring -1 beyond your reach. On Intel CPUs it's called the Management Engine. AMD CPUs have the same thing but it's called PSP. Cell phones are required to ship with what is called the "baseband" chip that has full access to all hardware and can't be modified or inspected by the end user (at least not easily). ARM has a similar backdoor. So does RISC-V shit and most everything else you can think of.

Older CPUs won't help you either because there are multiple undocumented bugs and optcodes. But they weren't designed with obvious backdoors from the factory. At least not until the mid-1990s. Then there is the issue of the rest of the hardware we all use having firmware we can inspect/modify. HDDs and SSDs suffer from this but also GPUs and most everything else in a modern device.

There is also things to worry about like speakers. A lot of people yank out microphones (or cover them) to prevent eavesdropping. But a speaker is the same thing and can be used just as easily for the same purpose. Most people don't think about that. You should assume any device with a camera, speakers, and microphone is both listening to you and watching you at all times.

On and on it goes. There are hundreds of ways into any modern device at the hardware level alone. When you get into software things become much much worse. Don't listen to idiots that say things like

>you're schizo
>you're not important enough for them to monitor

They monitor everyone and everything. They store most of it forever too (why do you think they've built and are building so many datacenters?)

I just use GUIX, no systemd and pure software freedom.

>>105567538
So trannies killed another organic community, got it.

>>105567924
Qt is exactly free software in the sense that places like the FSF mean.
>it is tied to commercial interests
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/free-software-is-not-antithetical-to-commercial-success
>if you want to make money from anything you've built using it you have to pay them a lot of money
Only if you want to make your product not GPL. Do you oppose this? If you are against copyleft, then you are against free software in the sense that places like the FSF mean.

>>105568943
>They monitor everyone and everything. They store most of it forever too
And why should I care? As long as I don't raise any flags it will never become an issue and will just be anonymized and analyzed for statistics. I don't have child porn, I don't praise hitler or advocate for an insurrection online. It's not my problem.

>>105568943
I'll give you a good example of how they spy on end users without them being any wiser. Have you noticed that no ISP installs a modem anymore? They all give you a modem/router combo of some sort. This is so you have a wireless AP into their network. Just about every person subscribed to an ISP has a wireless AP that the ISP can remotely control. Many even charge customers $5+ a month to use these APs.

Well think about how wifi works. It's a radio transmitting 24/7. It pulses. If you capture it and play it back as audio it sounds just like the old Russian woodpecker. For good reason it's the same type of technology just being used in a different part of the radio spectrum. Your ISP has free access to listen and record everything within range of it. It's a radar system.

By using the AP in your home they can map the inside of your home and monitor everything and everyone within it in real time. Or they can grep through their logs of it later and learn everyone's habits within the home. Imagine having one of these in every home within a major city or an entire country.

People will call you crazy if you point this out and say they'd never do something like monitor it. But it isn't true. The most valuable thing on this planet is data and "metadata". People pay big money for access to data like that. It's the entire reason the advertising (propaganda) and intelligence communities exist. It's what they do.

Let's assume you could build a PC that isn't backdoor'd. What do you think will happen the moment you attempt to access the internet with it? It'll be an oddity. It'll raise a red flag with their mass data collection technology (the main reason why "AI" was developed was to grep through this type of data). You are now interesting. You're on their radar. If they notice they don't have an existing backdoor into that system they'll try to place one. Or passively monitor what's happening on said system through various methods.

>>105567231
>I've been hoping someone would fork FreeBSD and add the OpenBSD stuff to it and refuse to merge in all the crap from Linux the FreeBSD people insist on shoving into the OS lately.
That's called DragonflyBSD

>>105567231
>>105567330
>>105567568
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_without_systemd

Is this a valid guide to get a Gentoo machine without systemd, but still with OpenRC as that's what I'm familiar with? Or is OpenRC pozzed too like you mention with the tmpfiles.

>>105568986
>If you are against copyleft, then you are against free software
Please stop spewing FSF propaganda. I don't care about the GPL. I don't care about BSD. I only care about having the code. The FSF has done NOTHING for "freedom". They are anti-freedom. The FSF only exists to reinforce the retarded concept of copyright and patents. It could not exist in a world with real freedom.

It's data. Data can be copied over and over again. Anyone should be free to do whatever they want with it. Which includes not giving back code if they don't want to. Why would I care if they didn't? If it's useful enough for me to care about running it I'll just "steal" the code and release it for free myself.

I don't want to live in a "copyleft" world. I want to live in a world where such retarded concepts don't exist in the first place. GPL has been a disaster. Instead of just taking code and fucking off they subvert and stifle entire projects and kill them instead.

Stallman is just a propped up figurehead to ensure no real radical rises to lead an actual movement. He gets paid millions a year to shit out blog posts and eat his own foot cheese. He's a glow nigger/asset. You know who I respect more than Stallman? Anyone that leaks source code for things we don't already have. So many "tech workers" on the board. Yet none of them have the balls to cp things they work on here for the good of everyone. Cowards.


>>105569012
I've already told you the OpenRC profiles pull in half of systemd multiple times anon. It's easy enough to check for yourself. The systemd repo isn't hidden.

Note that the 'hard dependencies' on systemd in other packages is mostly a lie. Many will function just fine without it present. Others will only spam some errors to console/log files.

Try lurking here until you get up to speed on the situation: https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/

>>105567924
>its not like the FSF would want it
>>105568986
>not true, its perfectly in line with the FSF while you are not
>>105569074
>I ACTUALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FSF AND THE GPL AND IF YOU DO, YOU ARE SPREADING PROPAGANDA, FUCK FREE SOFTWARE, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
that was fast

>>105569074
So if you only care about the code, why do you claim that it is outright impossible to you to release your code that you want to write using Qt?
The thing you are angry about is the requirement that others should get your code if you use this available code.

This is completely antithetical for anyone with an IQ >60 (so someone who passes the mirror-recognition test).

>>105569091
I have stated multiple times that I DO NOT FUCKING CARE ABOUT COPYRIGHT. What don't you understand? Did you not pass the 3rd grade? Can you not read?

Oh wait. You're just here to sew discord and derail this thread into a discussion about shit no one cares about. My bad. I thought you were actually interested in a discussion. I didn't know you were just being a massive faggot.

You know who would try to sue me the moment I released an OS as described above? The FSF. That's the entire reason they exist in the first place. To stifle creativity and bait well meaning people into a false ideological war of shit that no one should care about. Why would I pollute valuable space within my source code for comments written by some fat kike that never did anything of value? Oh wait I guess he copied some text editor 50 years ago and hasn't touched a keyboard since. I guess we can give him credit for that. Too bad he never used his position and fame to advocate for anything that matters. Like encouraging young programmers to LEAK FUCKING EVERYTHING.

People like you are are the worst kind of people. You're the reason why someone's Grandmother gets sued for their Grandchild downloading an mp3 file. Imagine being pro-copyright law at all in a world where we can make unlimited copies of 1s and 0s. I'm sure we'll see the fruits of "copyleft" any day now. The copyright virus will spread far and wide infecting everything until every last bit of code is GPL. Oh wait. It will never happen and the existing GPL code that matters has only been weaponized against us.

Who fucking cares. I don't respect anyone else TOS or copyrights/patents. Why should I respect yours? I'm going to take some GPL code and sell it right now. What will you do? Nothing that's what. Just like the FSF does nothing about every big tech company shipping out modified GPL stuff and keeping the source code to themselves. Fuck off.

>>105569149
So what exactly is the issue with releasing your code?
Why are you so emotional over the simple requirement to release your code, when you supposedly don't care about copyright?

>>105569163
Because I AM ENTITLED TO USE YOUR CODE BUT NOBODY ELSE SHOULD SEE MINE!
EVERYTHING THAT IS OUT THERE, SHOULD BE FREE FOR ME TO TAKE BUT IF I WANT TO HIDE WHAT I DO, THAT SHOULD BE FINE.

NO I DO NOT PASS THE MIRROR TEST AND I DO NOT KNOW THAT I AM A BEING LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

>>105567805
I got banned from a history forum for translating Mussolini speeches to english. I've long realized internet is controlled by glowies, this site included

>>105569000
No it isn't the same thing. It does not ship a base system designed with multimedia and end users in mind. It doesn't come with stuff like wine out of the box. Where end users are both encouraged and able to run any old "pirated" game they want by simply clicking the .exe.

Most UNIX clones are designed by people with autism that couldn't design a decent GUI even if they were given the world's greatest toolkit and free access to to employees that do great things like design consistent buttons and other UI elements that look nice and are easy to understand. They can't wrap their minds around the concept that people might not want to use a terminal emulator emulating a system that never existed in reality. They don't know how to make things simple and easy to understand. They will never capture any meaningful portion of the user base beyond hobbyists that like to LARP as 1337 haxxor.

Most of the tools needed already exist and are easy enough to bundle together. But most people are like the GPLfag ITT shitting the place up. Everyone is too terrified to bundle BSDshit with GPLshit and MITshit to ship out to end users. Since most of these people are also greedy faggots that chase clout and have to attach their name to everything. They don't care about the users. They only care about the almighty dollar.

I'll give you a great example: Guix. It's the only package manager that has fully p2p repos planned. But it won't matter. Since they're huffing their own farts and refuse to ship out anything that isn't "libre". So no one wants to use it aside from some autistic faggots with hand picked hardware that's backdoored anyway. The right way to force these companies to open up their code is to take it by force. You give the ability for end users to use their hardware even if it requires binary blobs. Then once they start crying about it being shit you find a way to gain access to that code to leak it out or you shame the company.

>>105569163
Last reply you're getting because you're just here to derail: I have shared more code over the years than you've probably read. You know what I don't do? I don't attach some faggot's manifesto to it and pretend like I'm making some grand political statement or saving the planet. It's fucking 1s and 0s. Take it. Do whatever the fuck you want. I'll share what I feel like sharing.

I really like how you refuse to engage with the main point of my argument at all. Which is copyright/patent law shouldn't exist in the first place. But if you engaged in that you'd have no argument. Which is kind of the point. You don't like what's being discussed ITT so you've come to attack the author, derail and attempt to make me mad.

By the way. Just because I type faster than you and sometimes make liberal use of the shift key doesn't mean I'm emotional. I'm simply YELLING from time to time because you seem unable to comprehend what I'm writing and are probably too retarded to understand the gist of what I'm saying. You're brain damaged. You've fallen for their gambit and you can not function or discuss things unless they fall into the false left vs. right, red vs. blue, team vs. team bullshit. You do not understand the basic way the hegelian dialectic works. So you believe the propaganda and line up to follow the rest of the herd like the good little slave you are.

Anyone that came out of MIT is a glow nigger and/or works for glow niggers. Nothing they say or promote should be trusted. Terry Davis was right when he called them all niggers. Go take a look at what license temple OS was released under.

>>105567231
Cuck. License.

>>105569244
I thought you wanted something that was just FreeBSD minus Redhat influence.
Personally I think FreeBSD is fine as it is. Redhat's main base is on Linux. I haven't seen any controversy out of FreeBSD other than being a bit careless with security.
But I agree with you sentiment. In fact I proposed that exact idea before -> https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/104911660/
I just don't have the resources to do it. But it's my plan if I ever get some good contacts in the industry.

>>105569357
The only reason I haven't done it yet is because I need to set aside start up money. A anonymous trust/501(c) needs to be set up to own domain names, servers, pay bills etc. That way you could operate without being doxed and sued. Then you could set up shop somewhere outside of the United States/EU/Japan and do whatever the fuck you want.

FreeBSD has a lot of issues I don't feel like going into right now. But the main issue is the current people running the project and dictating policy. You do know about the guy that got banned for virtually hugging someone on the IRC channel, right? When that happened A LOT of good contributors fucked off to NetBSD and OpenBSD. In addition to that the base system is highly bloated at this point to support 'legacy' installations and it doesn't bundle in a proper GUI. Plus there are a lot of issues with drivers (OpenBSD has better support for my laptop for example).

The hard work boils down to

1) Re-working the kernel and porting a lot of openbsd stuff over (pledge/unveil and other misc. stuff)
2) Designing a new GUI around Arcan (probably an OpenBox clone along with a dwm clone. At least that's where I'd start).

You give end users the ability to boot into: console, dwm or OpenBox pre-configured with a taskbar at boot. That would cover 99% of users and keep people happy. I personally run a basic WM on my laptops where I'm mostly keyboard driven and a DE on my workstations where I have multiple monitors and use of a trackball. The DE itself would follow the basic workflow of pre-Windows 8 with some various quality of life changes. But the basics would be what most people are used to. Start button, list of applications within it, windows minimize to taskbar etc. Anyone that dislikes the default could simply re-configure it through a well thought out GUI for that purpose. Oh and a control panel of course and a way to manage packages that's mouse driven.

why would you hate systemd but want to run gnome?
most of the same reasons people hate systemd also apply to gnome

>>105569294
The GPL has less text than your rant you wrote here.

If you don't have an issue of sharing your code - but want to force everyone to share their code - i don't see why you are this outraged about the requirement of sharing your code.

It seems like you want some special case where you want different rules to apply to yourself than to others.

>>105569434
Maybe we should work together. Is there a way I can contact you? Preferably on a platform that I can make a new account without a phone number.

>>105569491
I'm not "outraged" about the GPL. I'm outraged that you refuse to argue in good faith and keep avoiding the main point I'm making. That copyrights shouldn't exist at all and the GPL never did anything of value.

How come you refuse to engage with that talking point? Why do you constantly attack the author? You're a great example of the following. The only reason I'm even replying to you again is so the naive can learn how to spot people like you in the wild.

Everyone should read the Gentleman's guide to forum spies if they haven't already;
https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

Prove me wrong. Engage with the main point I'm making. Show everyone you aren't here just to derail the thread. I'm not restating it for the 5th or 6th time. Feel free to read previous replies again until you understand the point I've been making.

>>105569513
I don't own a cell phone either anon. If you have a throwaway email address feel free to post it and I'll contact you via email (and give you details for how to contact me in real time) whenever I come back from the coma I'm about to be in for the next 8-12 hours.

I will apologize in advance; I am rather busy this time of year. But things typically slow down for me in the fall. It'll probably be awhile before I'm ready to seriously work on this again. I put some effort towards this project 2 years ago but life happened.

>>105568894
sounds good why don't you start working on it then anon?

>>105568943
>schizo rambling
lmao no wonder nobody takes you seriously, also kys pedo

>>105569534
Someone who is outraged about copyrights as a whole wouldn't specifically target the GPL for no reason.
If everything would be under GPL, the whole world would be as if there is no copyright.

I am just ignoring any drivel of yours that is obviously either bad faith retardation or just really low IQ.

>>105569556
ok, you can email me here johnsmith177714@proton.me

>>105569626
Okay I'll have to say you got btfo by your opponent my guy. GPL could not even exist without copyright law, it fundamentally relies on it.

>>105569669
That's the whole point, congrats for realizing this.

A world where everything is under GPL is a world where copyrights don't matter and where nobody can sue you for retarded software patents.
A world without copyright and without software patents is a world where GPL isn't needed.

Right now you are living in a world with copyright laws, so why would you be specifically angry at a license that makes everyone who uses it sign his right of patent lawsuits away and forces them to not enact copyrights?

>>105566267
based
>>105566293
based

>>105566250 (OP)
Do you think the retarded replies here are astroturfing too, OP?

>>105566250 (OP)
USE CASE??? WHAT IS THE FUCKING USE CASE

>>105569692
I hope that you realize that you're displaying the exact mentality that is behind the creation of copyright laws.
You can't let go of your "intellectual property", so you seek for ways to protect it, then proceed to post hoc rationalize it as "I'm just using the tools available to protect freedumb :^)". A world filled with you would be unable to function with copyright law because you'd be upset the moment someone decided to "steal" your "IP".

GPL is just another facet of the same tofu mentality that empowers big corporations and enforces monopolies through government fiat. I'm not the guy you were originally speaking to nor am I mad about GPL by the way, I just recognize it for what it is. Which is an enforcement arm of corporate monopoly.

>>105566250 (OP)
Why is the screenshot so blurry?

>>105566250 (OP)
I hadn't noticed, but yes, lots of odd shit like that

>>105567026
I do not use a single one of their projects directly. I get that they are the "work" Linux OS for some people, but I would for the most part argue that unless you are a really die hard linuxtard, you can go a long way without ever touching any of their shit.

>>105566278
just use the list https://pastebin.com/VjJW3iDk do not do it the other way

>>105571245
freetard font rendering

>>105567568
>You want to hear about some more faggotry in Gentoo? I'll give you one more example. Although there are many many more.
>
>The reason systemd has creeped into the OpenRC profiles is due to the fact that one guy sits on the OpenRC repo and refuses patches. Then declares that
>
>1) No one wants to maintain it
>2) It's buggy and insecure
>
>A patch for OpenRC tmpfiles sat in there for years that he refused to merge. Even though the GURU repo had it included for years and most of the long time users had switched to using that version of OpenRC due to this issue and several other "improvements" this idiot added to OpenRC himself.
The same fucking shit is what's happening with Xorg btw. and why it's been forked. We can't thank Enrico enough for forking doing the work he is doing. Yes he's churning a lot of stuff, yes he is doing bold changes, but after 25 years of cucks sitting at the top like turkey droppings and blocking everything a backlog of things has built up and a lot of things in X needs major rework.

>>105570500
The use case is to damage distributions like Artix that are trying to help poor Enrico. It's also acting like a warning to whole community.

>>105566250 (OP)
>Anyone else finds online discussions about Red Hat products kinda creepy?
All discussion related to Linux is very creepy to most normal people, Linux people are kinda freakish, makes sense cause there's lots of TROONS in their community these days.

>>105567665
>I told you already. It's one of the people mentioned in the mailing list thread I linked. They have google alerts set up so they can do damage control here any time it's posted.
That explains so fucking much and I always suspected it.
>Post about some topic, say systemd or X
>All hell breaks loose with corporate cocksuckers coming out of the woodwork as if I lit a beacon
>no matter if the board was fast or slow, for some reason they only flocked to threads that might hurt corpo interests
People need to be brought to the gallows.

>>105572913
Fonts in linux has issues?

>>105572940
Enrico was an NSA plant.

>>105573083
Not to sound like a faggot, but could you please provide some extraordinary proof for this extraordinary claim?

>>105570500
embrace, extend, extinguish

>>105566250 (OP)
yikes. what a wild and antisemitic conspiracy theory.

>>105573119
No one serious about saving X11 would mention DEI nonsense in the README. What he’s doing right now is to put MAGA label to anti-wayland users. It’s a fucking psyop.
And people fall for this every time.

>>105573161
>put MAGA label to anti-wayland users
OH NO! The horror!

>>105573161
Fair enough, was thinking about the same when I was standing in the shower today. Also when he brought up the vaxx in the lkml years ago.

>>105573170
linux is basically comunism and anarchism, maga is philosophically contradictory with the entire thing.
spouting right wing talking points won't do his fork any favor in the linux community.

>>105567861
What do we do now? All I want is a unified UI toolkit and a set of well differentiated libraries that play nice with each other.

>>105567330
>patching Gnome and other shit to work without systemd and doing various other "anti-systemd" things like making elogind
I wonder if we set up a general on /g/ for an ongoing Linux uncucking project, how long it would take for it to be overrun with schizos and bots.

>>105573757
Communism and anarchism are diametrically opposed. A current non-boomer righty is much more socialist than the average mainstream slop lefty, mainstream slop lefties are just too fucking stupid and cognitively biased to understand it.

What we're dealing with here is beta males, essentially women.
Almost everything they do is motivated by passive aggression and resentment.
Not fantastical ideals of some political utopia, although this is the most common cope by them.

>>105567805
Since I started learning Japanese, I've been able to understand more and more random phrases here and there, and there's definitely a lot of "sanitization" like this going on.

>>105568994
You are the kind of moron who didn't see it coming when shit hits the fan.

>>105569294
Based. This thread is fucking gold.

>>105569534
>gentleman's
You surely mean "Gentleperson's". Have you not seen the title of the site you linked?

>>105573170
He's making xorg and wayland about right vs left politics. He's poisoning the well hard.

>>105574307
It was always about right vs left politics. They know it, everyone knows it. The moment he forked xorg he is the enemy and there is nothing he could do to prevent it. You think more people would help without DEI thing? You are very naive individual.

>>105566250 (OP)
>See opinion I don't like
>wow it's so creepy
grow up nigger, are you like 12?

>>105569074
There are two dependencies on systemd software: udev and tmpfiles. udev can be replaced with busybox mdev and possibly an additional shim library (libudev-zero), tmpfiles can be replaced with opentmpfiles.

>>105573977
You do it.

>>105566250 (OP)
if you are against redhat and gnome you are against linux and foss.

>>105575990
>Hurr
>Durr

>>105574307
You're willfully blind if you don't understand that pushing wayland, systemd etc is first and foremost about political signalling because the people doing it understand that red hat is a literal DEI cult. Since Gentoo came up earlier, look into the history of the off the wall subforum.
>for off topic shit, everything from sports to politics to general linux news
>discussion of systemd and poetteringware gets deported there immediately
>foundation "devs" are constantly crying about its existence because the people there are older and more experienced than the package jannies
>eventually create a private mailing list to coordinate against the users
>create a code of conduct
>when J6 happens, a google employee uses the CoC to shut down the OTW subforum because it had literal trump boomers on it
>>105567568
>one guy sits on the OpenRC repo and refuses patches
William Hubbs is an actual saboteur. I noticed he "maintains" Go as well, by which I mean he does nothing and leaves native installs weeks behind on security patches.

>>105576514
No, really. At this point I'm 100% convinced everyone astroturfing against RedHat/Gnome/Systemd/Wayland is pretty much just a microsoft agent trying to prevent Linux from becoming competitive in the desktop space

>>105576520

>>105575990
>red hat and gnome
>free software
When was the last time any linux corporation or foundation released or financially supported GPLv3 software?
>>105576527
You mean like when microsoft employee lennart poettering and microsoft employee luca boccassi wrote software that wiped home directories and blamed it on the users?
https://www.phoronix.com/news/systemd-tmpfiles-purge-drama

>>105576527
That doesn’t make sense, because Red Hat kept having their way, kept “winning” as they say. And linux desktop, if anything, is now worse for the average user.

>>105566250 (OP)
Red Hat is owned by IBM, who is even more of a great satan than Microsoft. They have every reason to continue pushing people into the Red Hat walled garden where they control everything

Lest no one forgets the reason people were suspicious of SystemD in the first place is that it didn't make any sense for it to be a network manager, a resolvd clone, a calendar, a crond replacement, a password manager, or any of the other feature creep ideas that nobody would have gone along with if it was just Red Hat introducing these solutions by themselves. They only got in to every major distro because they came in under the trojan horse of Systemd and most of them suck for what they're trying to do.

>>105576556
Just like a microsoft employee prevented that chink xz util attack a few months back? Not every microsoft employee is evil, but microsoft the corporation itself is evil, and they obviously have undercover agents trying to ruin linux. sybau

>>105567026
use OpenRC
Use X11 (Soon to be XLibre)
They are basically powerless if you do not buy into their latest and greatest FOMO tech. The best part is: as long as you don't use fedora, there's zero reason to ever pay them any heed at all.

>>105567231
BSD is an option but even me, as a hardcore freetard, can't suggest a BSD desktop

>>105576572
I don't even think Microsoft the corporation itself is necessarily evil but it is self-serving. They need Linux but they do not need the open source culture around it.

As much as people joke about them being jeetsoft, tehy still do good things and have expert developers.

IBM on the other hand, is just outwardly evil and is doing the Extend Embrace Extinguish thing in real-time with Red Hat and Linux.

>>105576572
>Just like a microsoft employee prevented that chink xz util attack a few months back
In his free time. The real question is what is he getting paid to do to linux on the clock.
>>105576567
Case in point, nobody likes systemd-ntpd, not even RHEL.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Ubuntu-25.10-Chrony
>Ubuntu 25.10 is joining the likes of Red Hat Enterprise Linux and SUSE Linux Enterprise that are using Chrony as their Network Time Protocol (NTP) implementation. Ubuntu 25.10 is switching over to Chrony in enabling Network Time Security (NTS) support on Ubuntu Linux.
>Ubuntu Linux is transitioning from systemd-timesync to Chrony with the Ubuntu 25.10 cycle in order to benefit from Network Time Security (NTS) support with this NTP client/server. The NTS standard is more secure than NTP and can prevent spoofing and avoid possible man-in-the-middle attacks.
So why do all of these barely maintained, feature lacking systemd modules exist? Because at one point there were a selling point in the init war and then they were immediately discarded when they were no longer useful.
>look at how aggressive our cancer is
The only systemd modules that are still maintained are those that are politically useful. Udev, tmpfiles, boot etc. Don't look into how often Lennart blogs about how we NEED secure boot.

>>105576598
How exactly are they doing EEE? You can't expect the small GNOME or Fedora team that are community-based to support a billion alternatives they consider lesser and a waste of their time, adrian from GNOME wrote about this stuff on his blog and explained it pretty well, with no appeal to emotion or populism that schizos like lunduke or luke smith use to shit on systemd, there's just not enough people to support that much choice, if you wish to do so, nobody can stop you from supporting x11 or kde or openrc or whatever yourself. RedHat is a company, and just like Canonical or SUSE they will work in their best interests, which for the most part is never going to fully allign with activistic and idealistic foss approach, but you can't really expect anything better of them and they never even try to engage with the desktop consumer space, RHEL isn't something normal home users use, Fedora is. But hating Fedora because it's upstream for CentOS Stream which is upstream for RHEL is retarded. And so is making RedHat sound worse than they really are.

>>105576598
>IBM on the other hand, is just outwardly evil and is doing the Extend Embrace Extinguish thing in real-time with Red Hat and Linux.
Microsoft (and Canonical) is doing it too by aggressively promoting rust. They want a BSD base system so they can use proprietary extensions to lock in enterprise customers like Oracle did. Luckily for them, there's a huge population of transgender retards happy to spam about how permissive licensing is true freedom, that the GPL is fascist and that rms is a pedophile (look for threads about rms talks on r/linux to see what I mean).

>>105576604
I use systemd-timesyncd and it just werks.

>>105576527