>>105611123 (OP)
Due to brain damage from inhaling gasoline fumes all their lives.

personal answer: Engine noises sound good

Developing the charging infrastructure is not viable outside of medium sized cities especially in most of North America which is like 80% rural land as well as Eastern/Southern Europe which isn't exactly very wealthy to begin with
Also they aren't taking off because Elon Musk who's effectively the face of modern EV development, is a massive closeted homo douche who's failed to grift to both leftist communists and rightoids with lead poisoning so he's ultimately failed to capture any serious market outside of other grifters. With him joining the tards in charge at the moment he's also just letting them get rid of the tax credits that initially attracted a lot of people towards purchasing one.

They aren't against EVs, they hate current EV tech because it's less convenient than ice when it comes to recharging and range limitations. EVs are basically dog shit, and bloated with tech that is unnecessary. I won't even get into the long term battery replacement costs if they even last that long.

I will also add though all new cars are dog shit, so you're choosing between dog shit and dog shit. One dog shit is just more convenient than the other dog shit right now.

>>105611123 (OP)
Just boomers growing up with muscle car movies and racing movies.
>nooo how DARE care not look and sounds like my Jewlywood make belief????
>things are changing I cant handle it IM GOING INSANE

>>105611123 (OP)
Outside all the telemetry and charging concerns, personally my biggest gripe is that they should be cheaper than ICE cars but aren't. You don't have to develop an engine, you don't have to develop a transmission, stop charging as if you did.
I'd 100% get an EV if it was something like a modern version of a Sebring CitiCar priced at around 7K or less

>>105611123 (OP)
Electric cars are older than ICEs. The main reason EVs aren't so hot is still stable energy storage. Hydrocarbons are still king.

personal answer: everything is fucking botnet, you can't just get a normal car except EV, you can ONLY get some sorta shitty """"smart car""""
I live in a big city and also have a driveway so an EV would basically be perfect for me, recharge overnight at home, drive at city speeds and save a ton of money on the inefficient petrol engine idling all the time or rolling through 20mph zones, but nooooo they are all always-online firmware-updating telemetry-uploading pieces of GARBAGE. I don't need a voice assistant and a built-in gps and internet-enabled shitty lane assist or whatever I just want a fucking car

also this is true >>105611474, and the killer for me is that the used market is fucked, cars are a wonderful thing where a 1 year old car costs like half of a new one and a 10 year old one can still run for decades but cost 1/8th of a new one, but EVs have their battery shot if they're used so they're worthless

>>105611123 (OP)
It turns out batteries are more damaging to the planet than gasoline, who saw that coming?

>>105611123 (OP)
It's not the electric motor itself, it's about electronics in general. A simple ECU is fine, but everything from the current century is incredibly gay as far as personal automobiles are concerned. Electric vehicles, with their abundance of electric power, accelerate this degeneration, as if it weren't bad enough. There are other mostly personal issues for me, too.

EVs are gay/european

>>105611485
>Electric cars are older than ICEs. The main reason EVs aren't so hot is still stable energy storage. Hydrocarbons are still king.
While there is a few years apart as to when they both started, it doesn't negate the fact that EVs were tossed aside and ICE vehicles have around 120 years of development head start. They are more expensive and don't work quite as expected precisely because of this. And while EVs have actively, properly been developing only for the past 20 years or so, they have practically narrowed the gap with ICE cars by about 90%. They're already better in some sense, like acceleration, torque, etc and in about 10-15 years they're are going to be on par or better in every sense.

But the best thing about EVs is the electric part, that is to say electricity is source agnostic. It doesnt matter where energy comes from, be it coal, solar, nuclear, once you establish an electrical net, and points, you can charge everywhere, forever. So even if something changes in the backend you switch from coal to solar, or from solar to nuclear, or to some new sources for generating power, it all still works at the frontend.

>>105611123 (OP)
Because it's just the continuation of the trend where cars become less about... well being a car, and more about being a computer used for commuting. People who don't like cars won't care. People who like cars hate them because they take everything fun out of cars and turn them into another appliance.

Cars are all about the engine, the gearbox the action on the clutch for me, the feeling that you can go anywhere and just fucking floor it and it's only you and your 2 hands on the wheel preventing you from fucking into the barrier. These cars have none of that, they're like gokarts but also somehow gay. Hell electric gokarts are fucking gay too! Even though they are fast, they just don't feel as fun as the gas stuff

>>105611534
Unironically older cars are just best for everything
Want a fun and inexpensive car to take to a track day?
You buy an old Miata or some old japanese sports car.
You need a cheap daily? You buy an old toyota prius because they were meant for being used as cheap cabs so they have none of the smart shit but all of the hybrid petrol saving crap. They are also common as shit in for the most part so parts cost nothing.

New cars are literally shit at everything, it''s quite sad really

>>105611730
Very sad indeed, and what's even more sad is that older cars only get older and less abundant. Right now there are still lots of priuses but in five years there will be fewer and in ten years even fewer. And I'm not a mechanic kind of guy and I don't want a fixer-upper project, so if it ever gets to the point where I have to buy a 20 year old car just for it not to have an always-online giant ipad I'm really not going to have a great time.

Unless the market backpedals a bit and starts offering decent models again, the future's looking bleak.

So far not a single good argument against EV's in this thread, just chuds being histrionic.

Eventually, EVs will come equipped with a button the police can press that disable your vehicle.

>>105611800
Explain >>105611242 though.
Why would anyone living outside of even a medium-sized city ever buy an electric car when the charging infrastructure isn't there, the ranges aren't good enough for long distance traveling, and the tax credit incentives are largely gone now?

>>105611843
Most charging should be done at home the vast majority of the time.

It's an ICE way of thinking that refilling or charging in this case is done always outside of the home.

>>105611123 (OP)
Because America sucks at batteries in large scale and they don't want to buy chinese or chinese IP on american soil. Now with trump admin he can be pushed by GM, Toyota, etc that didn't made those batterie lines. TLDR outside america it is over.

>>105611951
You're ignoring traveling again though. Most people in America/Canada drive long ass distances all the time due to flights being expensive and long distance trains not really existing anymore. Plus, many people here regularly commute an hour or more to/from work. You can't exactly bring a charger with you where there's no power, much less likely a charging station. It's the same shit with ICE cars but you actually have fueling stations sprinkled throughout. The only option is to install solar cells into the roofs but that significantly raises costs on these cars that are supposed to be cheaper than an ICE vehicle.

>>105611823

>police

Or even an authoritarian government that disables your freedom of movement because you made the wrong post online.

I have no problem with electric motors, they are highly efficient. It is needing a software update to turn on the vehicle or getting hacked that turns people away from the concept.

The high tech industry and the state combine their efforts to expand their powers out of a mutual self-interest for profit and control, and the nexus of this is the military industrial complex.

I live in jew york (queens) in an apartment. There is nowhere to charge it outside of using superchargers (with lines), or paying for garage thats like 600 dollars extra a month.

>>105612052
Again, no argument, if government cares about you being evil, they can turn your vehicle into cheese with automatic rifles. Stop being a nigger and pay your debt if you take one, next argument.
>>105612064
First good argument, do you really need anything more than electric bike in jewyork though?

>>105611123 (OP)
Soulless
I like cars for the same reason I like mechanical watches. I love physical moving parts and how just how far we can push them

>>105611823
>disable
You'd have a slim chance of breaking out and fighting back. That won't do. You're going straight into the wall at full throttle, without seat belts. The news reporter will claim you "did it for an unknown reason".

>>105611534
>always-online firmware-updating telemetry-uploading pieces of GARBAGE
Read the privacy policy that came with your current car.
www.politico.eu/article/car-manufacturer-data-privacy-driver-passenger-sexual-activity-report/
The real advantage is that an EV can be very easily remotely bricked for any reason, you can't do any such thing on an ICE that can't be bypassed with a $50 ECU swap

>>105611123 (OP)
Personally I'm not, there just hasn't been a good EV produced yet (similarly there hasn't been a good mass market ICE car since 1936)

>>105612036
Most people aren't commuting 200 miles everyday just for work.
Traveling is also not a huge problem, at worse you have to plan a trip out better.

I feel like this is one of those things where we ignore the 99% and focus on the 1% you do things.

>>105611123 (OP)
i have testicles

>>105612137
>$50 ecu swap
What's this nigga smoking?
What modern car has a $50 aftermarket ECU available?

>>105611123 (OP)
change is scary
i like my new electric car
it goes fast

>>105612137
The difference is that a) I drive a 13 year old car, and b) you can take out the WAN antenna in an ICE car and still drive it.
If there are EVs you can also just disconnect that would be good news, but so far all the news I hear is that they lock you out for even stupid shit like firmware updates, so I fully expect it'll just refuse to start if it can't connect.

>>105611123 (OP)
they and their assisted driving ice counterparts can and have gone rogue. take the assists out and maybe people will like them more.

>>105612192
You are delusional then.
You really think car manufacturers would take the liability risk of a dead LTE modem stopping a family from escraping a dangerous situation?

>>105611123 (OP)
Public transportation is good enough, should have made EVs more like convenient toys rather than moving smartphones that cost 10 times more than regular vehicles

>>105612144
>The first practical gasoline-powered car was introduced in 1886 by Karl Benz of Germany.
>1908: Ford Model T – Henry Ford introduced the Model T, which was affordable due to assembly line production (starting around 1913). This drastically reduced costs.
>1920s: Cars became widely popular in the U.S. and Europe as prices dropped and roads improved. By the late 1920s, Ford had sold over 15 million Model Ts.
>Post-World War II (1950s): Car ownership exploded in the U.S. and Europe, with suburbanization and highway systems (like the U.S. Interstate system in 1956) making cars a necessity.

VS

1990: GM Impact Concept (prototype for the EV1) debuted at the LA Auto Show.
1996: GM EV1 (first purpose-built modern EV) launched as a lease-only vehicle. Range: ~70–100 miles (lead-acid batteries, later NiMH). Fate: GM controversially recalled and crushed most EV1s (2003).

First Mass-Produced Modern EVs (2000s–2010s)
2008: Tesla Roadster (first highway-legal EV with lithium-ion batteries, 200+ miles range).
2010: Nissan Leaf (first affordable mass-market EV).
2012: Tesla Model S (proved EVs could be luxurious and high-performance).

Lucid Air Grand Touring XR 512 miles Luxury Sedan
Chevrolet Silverado EV WT Max 492 mi Pickup Truck
Tesla Model S Long Range 402 mi Luxury Sedan
Hyundai Ioniq 6 Long Range 342 mi Sedan

>>105611123 (OP)
Because it comes attached with the rest of the Green (tm) Agenda.
>more taxes on gas
>less control over your own car
>you'll own nothing and be happy
>fart the wrong way, and company/government bricks it
That is, besides the technological limitations themselves.
>battery degradation
>less resale value
>lower range
>longer time to charge
>electricity price not low enough to justify it
>priced as if they are somehow equivalent to combustion engine cars
Lol. Lmao.

>>105611951
Only feasible if you have a driveway or own your parking spot and are willing to invest money into having a charger installed
~40% of the US population lives in an apartment, not a house and a non-trivial percentage might have their option to install a charger limited by an uncooperative landlord or an HOA
And that's ignoring the fact that installing a charger is an added expense that not everyone might be willing or able to afford

>>105612166
Most of the continent is rural land dude. Growing up it was a 35 mile trip one way just to get into town. Going back and forth means those batteries are going to get worn out very fast. You are right though, we should be focusing on the people in the cities instead because they're all that matter and they're the ones with the charging stations all over and they're the ones buying these things.

>>105612254
Bruh, I have always lived rurally.
100 miles a day is the most I've had to go to get back and forth to a job.

200+ miles a day and I'm killing myself unironically, that would be 3-4 hours just in commute a day.

>>105612254
Rural tards produce nothing but corn; sure they feed the metropolis, but centralization has always encouraged innovation. In 40 years, rural tards will drive electric vehicles and pretend they are the best thing on the globe while counter signaling the next thing.

>>105612175
I was thinking about "cheapest aliexpress chinkshit that will still technically run" but it seems I was still off by a zero or so
>>105612214
Would you honestly put it past them?

>>105612296
Time to shut down the datacenter I guess.
Where just supposed to make corn.
Pack it up guys.

>>105612234
The technology is already there, the problem is bad design practices from modern ICEVs have continued in EVs. There was a good opportunity to radically simplify car design and make them more serviceable for a mass market, but it hasn't happened yet

>>105611123 (OP)
>cost
ecars costs double or triple over the classics
>weight
e cars have to carry around batteries. very heavy batteries, ecars typically weight 1 ton more
>carry capacity
the batteries makes the car spave reduced. where was a reserve wheel is now batery
>reliability
gasoline car can start even in minus 50ºC. it will start even in minus 80, if you plug the small batery in to start the engine. the e cars start to fail in minus 20
>longetivity
normal cars can last you 10 years. 20 years with good service, 30 years if you are willing to replace parts. e cars all die with their batery: 4 years max. and to change batery costs as much as new car
>infrastructure
to refuel car you just find one out of 999999 gas stations. or you take extra canister with you and can drive across whole africa. with e cars you have to plan ahead and ensure there are charging stations acros your road
>time
to charge e car you need 2 hours minimum, 12 hours optimally to not prematurely kill your batery. to refuel normal car you need 10 minutes tops.
>cost
gasoline is cheaper than electricity. and when germans disabled their nuclear power plants... well electricity is now even more expensive than ever. meanwhile gasoline is cheap
>grid collapse
cities cannot suport all the citizens with ecars. the moment everybody plug in their ecar on weekend, the whole state will get blackout, just like had spain month ago. normal cars function even without any grid operating.
>cost
when you sell used normal car, you are going to get most of your money back. with used ecar you wont get even 20% back, if you willmanahe to find a buyer at all.

until somebody makes a really good way how to store electricity with similar energy density as gasoline, ecars will remain toys for the bored rich people, who still will have their 2nd normal car as backup in garage for whenevr they actually need to get somewhere.

>>105612306
>Would you honestly put it past them?
I would only expect it out of pure retardation rather than just being evil.
Like some retarded tech bro in the department that doesn't understand hardware dies or there are legitimate situations where there isn't a cellular signal available.
There is much more oversight then that tho.

>>105612324
an electric caterham/lotus7 without all the nanny shit would be fun.

>>105611242
>Developing the charging infrastructure is not viable outside of medium sized cities
youre out of touch, tesla alone has chargers EVERYWHERE in the US now. Even in bummfuck states there are charging stations everywhere. Its just not obvious to people who dont have EVs.

>>105612324
I think the expensive EV's look nice, on the other hand, the cheaper ones look like shit.

>>105612214
yes

>>105612420
looks like an electric razor

>>105612362
>your connection makes them money
>no connection = no money
>ergo: no connection = car no go
Just wrap it in some PRspeak about OTA updates and telemetry ensuring passenger safety or whatever

>>105612351
holy esl batman

Matthew 23:27-28

>>105611474
It’s because of all the retarded useless sensors they put in them so if you get into a minor fender bender the repair bill is $20k.

I have a 5 year old Tesla M3 and enjoy it, but I wasn’t fooled for a second that we’re anywhere near having FSD and would gladly buy one without all the fucking sensors

>>105612558
Does your tesla still have lidar? Also, they need those for dead spots.

>>105611123 (OP)
FOX News probably told them to.

>>105611123 (OP)
>Why shills are against it
The majority of revenue from oil comes from gasoline sales, there’s not much money in plastics and propane accessories. If everyone drives EVs your revenue goes poof.
There are entire nation states, like Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc. who are dependent on oil sales, so expect heavy shilling.

>Real answers why EVs aren’t good.
Charger availability is still shitty. When people say “range anxiety” what they really mean is they are anxious that there won’t be enough chargers on the trip. Charging at home is still quite comfy though.
Insurance is often a bitch, especially if the insurance company feels you’re driving “exotic technology” they throw you on a rate hike.
Range is more than you’d think but still ultimately less.
Gas is still cheap. Ironically it’s stuck in a holding pattern because demand flatlined, in part because of EVs. If gas jumps to $100 a barrel you won’t see people shit taking EVs as much though.

>misrepresented concerns
Tech spying is in everyone’s car now. Cops have remotely disabled ICE cars using the OnStar system before, it’s not a uniquely EV concern.
Battery degradation is also less of an issue that people think, many combustion motors will degrade from use before a battery pack does.
Price is actually about the same, it’s basically neck and neck with gas cars for total cost of ownership. Some used Model 3s have gone around for less than $20k and less than 60k miles.

>>105611123 (OP)
that's no good, needs a shameful slur like anti-leccy, and we should be denied privileges until we get onboard
if that went over your head then you're hopeless

>>105611123 (OP)
it works, but:
charging is still a massive problem
costs a fuckload, not only the car, but the home infrastructure to make use of it
if you are a rent cuck and your apartment installs some dogshit charger, you're fucked

the ideas are solid, the plug-in hybrids and EVs have immensely good near-instant torque and work well in stop and go, but again, they're simply too expensive.

also if you crash your fucking cuckbox, lol lmao, good luck to you. you'll probably need to write off the whole car as a totaled loss.

>>105611123 (OP)
> garbage range
> can't easily (or cheaply) repair battery
> battery costs 50% of what the car cost to buy
> dangerous in countries where there's massive distance between places with little to no infrastructure to recharge. limiting its use to city and outer suburbs only
> nothing is repairable without a massive headache and lots of money
fuck that shit.

>>105611485
this chad knows

>>105611672
> tossed aside and ICE vehicles have around 120 years of development head start.
they weren't tossed aside. they saw the potential. people were making electric vehicles for just as long but in very tiny numbers and for specialized uses. the main problem was battery storage and range. we would have had electric cars everywhere decades ago if they had cracked the battery problem earlier.

>>105611123 (OP)
Sour grapes.
They can't afford so they hate.

what I don't understand is.... what happened to fuel cells? can't you just make something akin to a flow battery for EVs?
hydrocarbon -> fuel cell -> energy or is it simply not as efficient or does it only work well with hydrogen?

>>105611123 (OP)
lithium batteries suck
invent better batteries and my tune will change

>>105612793
hydrogen embrittles the fuck out of steel.
how would you propose moving and storing this highly explosive gas?

For me it's because 90% of the engine's power is in the atmosphere that I don't have to carry.
Whereas for EVs, I'd have to carry 100% of the energy in the car as weight.
Now if car companies could produce diesel-electric cars, I could get behind that

>>105611123 (OP)
I'm not categorically against them but right now they're
>more expensive than comparable ICEs
>take longer to recharge
>not even that environmentally friendly
basically they're toys for wealthy people or virtue signals for good goys.
if you actually care about the environment you'll just keep driving your ICE until it dies.

>>105612841
plastic containers with donkeys or children (where allowed).

newer electric appliances are less reliable and cheaply made and electric cars remind people of that.
Also their motors and batteries are too expensive to repair

>>105612880
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0k36v50zvro

>>105611123 (OP)
Its less convenient and more expensive. If it was more convenient and less expensive theyd do better.
>its better for the enviroment
No, buying a cheap car and doing proper maintenance until it hits 250k is better.

>>105612841
I asked if fuel cells for existing petrol could exist, but I doubt it or it is probably worse in efficiency.

>>105612083
>First good argument, do you really need anything more than electric bike in jewyork though?
Well not really but if I want to go to suburbs/nj/etc a car is kinda required, much like anywhere else. I wouldn't mind having an EV i just have nowhere to charge it here thats not more expensive than gas.

>>105611123 (OP)
>>105612558
I read some random comment in this board that said the EU forces automakers to log and send all sensor info back to the manufacturer... just googled it and it seems to be true:
https://www.frotcom.com/blog/2022/11/event-data-recorders-mandatory-all-vehicles-2024
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/12989-Vehicle-safety-technical-requirements-test-procedures-for-EU-type-approval-of-event-data-recorders-EDRs-_en

>>105611123 (OP)
They're retarded and scared.

>>105611123 (OP)
>>105611149
Are these people in the room with us now?

all they do is beep and make microwave noises. distracting and annoying as fuck.

>>105614910
Yes. They're called Americans.

>>105611123 (OP)
People like to be able to drive more than 30 miles with the AC on before stopping at a hotel overnight.

>>105615123
where are you getting your opinion on evs from? 1995?

>>105611123 (OP)
1. Engine sounds are fucking cool.
2. Driving an electric car feels wrong and gay and I'm not gay.

It's easier to keep an gasoline engine going than an EV. I like the option of not needing a computer at all. Modern cars are all garbage doesn't matter if they're EVs or not. I like the sound that gasoline engines make. I like being able to feel the vibration and hear the noise because I can tell right off if something isn't running right. Gasoline is cheaper than buying new batteries. Filling a tank is quicker than waiting on a battery to charge. I like having unlimited range.

Aside from all that: Gasoline cars are more fun to drive.

>>105615177
Hah they don't even try to hide the fact they're lying. Imagine promoting the distance your car can travel in one day as square mileage.

>>105611123 (OP)
1) Forced
2) Identity politics (for and against)
3) Poor
4) Post-hoc reasoning

>>105611474
>they should be cheaper than ICE cars
If you rent the battery like you do with gas fuel, they should be cheaper. If they decide to rent out battery and offer a $100/m battery rental fee, I feel that would be easier pill to swallow.

>>105616338
The issue with that is that if a battery is small enough and light enough to be easily swapped, chances are range is pretty shit (Like, beyond "just swap it more often lol" shit)

>>105611242
>personal answer: Engine noises sound good
God decided that people like you will inherit the Earth, most likely dumb people. You get a dopamine hit when you hear car noise while I release stress hormones. The world was made for you, not me.

https://youtu.be/ylhsbfQTPDQ

>>105611123 (OP)
they dont solve the issue of cars existing.

He said everything >>105612239 these cars bring nothing to the table and are just a way to reduce your freedom a bit more. They really want you to own nothing

>>105611951
Congratulations, first person with a brain.
>>105611242
>>105611280
>>105611843
Do any of you own EVs? Ever drive one? Even where it's built out, DCFC is a fucking joke. It's more expensive than gasoline. Eat my dick, GM/electrify america/etc., I'm not paying you 50¢/kWh when I can charge at home for 8.

>>105612433
The LTE modem in my Polestar regularly shits the bed. Big ol X on the reception bar, usually until the next time it sits for 8 hours. I have to use the FM radio to listen to NPR instead of the app. Car still works.
>>105616338
>CaaS
This is the worst idea I've ever heard. Who do you think tries it first, Elon, or BMW/Benz?

>>105617477
>Have any of your ever ate shit? Ever stuck your tongue in an asshole? No? Then you have no opinion on the taste of shit. People are going to start loving the taste of shit any day now. They'll be eating shit in the home! If they don't we'll just tax the cost of other food products until they learn to love it.

Not giving up my trucks ever, sorry. I still burn lead in two of them. It smells and sounds really good. I run straight pipes so others can enjoy it as well.

>>105617503
>I’m a dumb nigger. I huff lead fumes and make my cars louder so everyone can tell I’m a dumb nigger from far away
see, you’re not the only one who can greentext strawmen.

>>105617495
How do you think gas cars operate? Are you retarded? You have to keep buying the gas over and over and over and over again. Average filling of $60-$80 per week easily. With 4 times that, its ~200-300 per month in gas bills. $100/m in battery rental is cheap.

>>105611123 (OP)
I don't want a smartphone with wheels

>>105614966

>>105617628
Later on, when there’s very little gas cars on the roads, the price of gas will skyrocket because only a small percentage of people are going to be using it. Everyone will eventually be forced to accept electric.

>>105617503
>I run straight pipes so others can enjoy it as well.
Fuck you, some nigger with a lifted dually and straight pipes wakes me up every morning at 5 AM.

>>105617530
Never giving up my trucks. Never giving up my bikes. Never giving up my race car. Never giving up burning leaded gasoline. Never buying a car that I can't fix myself or get wet.

Sorry nigger. No one is impressed you're a dumb ass that bought an ugly piece of shit when you could have purchased something with an all American V8. Imagine not being able to tow a boat and a motor home up a mountain. Imagine not enjoying the sweet sweet smell of victory at the local dirt track. I'm going to keep pushing the benzene and there is nothing you can do about it.

No one likes electric cars. No one thinks they look good. No one wants to own them. No one wants to buy them from the used market. No one will even like touch screen dashboards and retarded designs where the speedo is in the middle of the dashboard for some reason. No one will even fall for your shilling. Cityfags should just stick to the bus and the train if they're lucky enough to have access to one.

Should have promoted hydrogen instead. Oh well.

>>105617676
Gas is by default "rental". Electric can be charged at home, without ever going to the gas dealer. Hell, if you're brave enough, get solar panels on the roof and you'll never have to pay anyone else.

>>105611123 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQn2ZgQFoU0

The above kind of summarizes why electric cars are bullshit. In theory they should be great but in practice the car maker cannot help but make the thing into a computer or appliance that is boring and soulless. Tesla is the same. Just an appliance on wheels.

Further, beyond right to repair and access to parts and getting kicked off the fast charge network if you "modify" the vehicle without authorization (even though it's your car). Things like that really fuck up the landscape of ownership and the idea that what you buy you own.

In addition, the cars will never be as cheap and affordable to run as an ICE. You can buy a cheap used gas car for 5k. With some repairs you're on the road motoring. Electric car for 5k? Which part of it? You aren't getting shit for 5k. And a cheap used electric car will need a 40,000 dollar battery + labor to install which exceeds the value of the car.

In summary, electric cars are a bunch of shit. I used to want one, used to sing their praises but like everything in this fucked up world corporations just can't help but fuck them up.

>>105617718
You are not charging your fucking car with solar panels lol. Don't be a retard. You would be charging that fucking thing for a month.

>>105617712
>benzene

https://youtu.be/z0wK6s-6cbo

>>105617718
>just get the panels bro
>don't think about having to replace them in 10 years

I hate you idiots so much. We could have had truly free energy from nuclear or tesla's wireless death machine. But you suck the Government's and big businesses cock and fall for their lies. You act like you're saving the environment while you smugly charge your stupid lithium battery with 5-10 year life before it goes to the dump. With electricity delivered over grid with high losses that has coal plant on the other end. Or 30+ year old nuclear plant you all fear monger about. Or 50+ year old hydro plant that ruins the land surrounding it.

Gasoline should be like 3 cents a gallon and would be without all the stupid taxes you support that only go to line some fag's pockets. They used to dump entire tubs of it into the river because it was worthless at the time.

>>105617712
>Never giving up my trucks. Never giving up my bikes. Never giving up my race car. Never giving up burning leaded gasoline. Never buying a car that I can't fix myself or get wet.

I like your mindset, but the sad reality is that they are going to make gasoline so unaffordable you just can't run them. Well, unless the oil industry has politicians by the balls for the next 50 years. Beyond that, government are being a bunch of pricks introducing "congestion charges" etc for populated areas. All the bureaucratic bullshit is going to make it more and more expensive. Insurance will also step in at some point and jack the rates sky high.

I hope i'm wrong. I'm like you, I want to keep my gas cars and the like. Electric has its place but it's never going to be cheap like gas cars.

>>105617628
Please educate yourself on the cost of replacing a battery. They are so fucking expensive it's retarded. You are living in a fantasy world. You also have to tack on labor for installation of these batteries. In an ideal world the batteries would not degrade but 18650's will all die with use. Stop being silly.

>>105616338
> You buy a new car with a new battery
> Swap the battery with a used battery with an unknown capacity and remaining life
Doesn't seem like an idea people who like new things can get behind.

>>105611123 (OP)
The jews that run SCE decided they no longer want to buy my solar power after they memed for decades about how everyone should install it. I swear I don't understand California's obsession with catering to broke niggers. We need to just officially two tier society this state and be done with it.

I'd rather charge a stupid battery car than give my power away to niggers for free. Thats the only reason Im even considering it. That and I want it to drive me home from the bar.

>>105611123 (OP)
Honestly the best criticism of it I can see is that It will raise electricity prices, and that it's not TRULY green unless your entire energy infrastructure is green.

>>105611123 (OP)
Because my 20 year old Toyota just werks.

>>105617767
I already pay $10 a gallon to race for 3 hours. I'm not really concerned about it. If they try to outlaw gasoline we'll just make it from corn like we do with the untaxed liquor.

No one is going to stop us from racing.

I like them from a tech perspective, but from an environmental perspective they are just "Californian Green". Meaning they're mostly designed to make you feel like you're doing something, when in actuality your electricity powering it is from an coal fired plant or some shit.

>>105617740
Used electric cars will eventually be as cheap as current used ICE cars. Later on you will simply need to replace the battery and never pay for gas again. You pay way more money for gas over the lifetime of your car than you pay for the battery.
The gas money is taken from you over years and years, and you don’t even know how much money you have spent on gas since you bought your car. People that sell oil are taking advantage of you and making you look like a fucking idiot. They are slowly milking you.

>>105617762
>electric cars explode every other day
>solar panels combust into magic pixie dust every hour
Must be real shit for you

>>105617799
If car costs $10K and comes with a battery swap from the dealer/station, that you rent out for only $100/m that offers upto 4 swaps per month.

>>105617836
If solar panels were any good the scam company that's been trying to scam me into installing them in my field for years wouldn't be giving them away for free.

>>105617831
> Make E85 or adapt the cars to run on E100
I like how you think.

>>105617835
>Used electric cars will eventually be as cheap as current used ICE cars. Later on you will simply need to replace the battery and never pay for gas again.
Again you are being retarded. Until a new battery is cheap, this is a pipe dream. Look into power tools for example. You need a new battery? Well bend over. That's a tiny fucking battery for a hundred bucks. You want to replace a car battery? Oh wait, shit, the manufacturer stopped producing those. Now what? Oh, sorry buy a new one.

>>105617843
Where in the fuck are you getting these prices? I mean your ass is probably pretty smart, but fella, this is nonsense bullshit you are talking. A 10k car with a battery swap? My friend a fucking drill battery costs a hundred dollars and uses maybe 6-8 18650 Lithium Cells. A car battery uses several hundred cells. What do you think the price will be?

>>105611123 (OP)
Because Tesla is a chud mobile now.

>>105617860
If you don’t have the money for the battery upfront, then just get a loan and pay the bank instead of paying for gas. Over the lifetime of the car you will be saving money.

>>105617875
> take a loan for the battery
You are a debt slave. Enjoy your time paying banks while you remain poor and own nothing.

Gasoline is a drop in the bucket over time. Over the lifetime of the vehicle, electric cars are actually still vastly more expensive. You should maybe do a little research. If they were cheaper, i'd own one. You are talking pure shit.

>>105617767
>they are going to make gasoline so unaffordable you just can't run them

Meanwhile, back in reality...

>California exploring per-mile road charge as gas tax revenue declines
>California is considering implementing a per-mile "road charge" for all drivers across the state to fund highway maintenance, as revenue from the gas tax continues to decline. The California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) recently completed a pilot program to study this potential new fee system, which could replace the current gas tax.

Tesla driving Elonniggers lose again. Turns out they never actually cared about pollution. Turns out it was always about the money. I AM SHOCKED!!!!

>>105617844
Did your solar panel explode the hour after the install was done?

>>105617896
>California
Found your problem.

>>105617875
>Just take out a loan
>Just rent your car to other people
>Just operate ride sharing business
>Just deliver fast food to normalfags on the side

I understand why normalfags are constantly broke now. They go through all this instead of simply learning how to work on their own car and buying a car that lasts 250+ thousand miles between engine rebuilds. I bought a shitty 1996 Maxima in 1999 and I have no idea how many miles its down so far. The odometer stopped working at 400,000 miles. It costs $30 a week to put gasoline in it _if_ I drive it 50+ miles a day. Which I don't. So it's more like $30 a month tops to go back and forth to town and other misc. trips. I change the fluids in it once a year for about $30-$40. I do misc. upkeep so another $100 a year tops but usually I don't have to buy anything for it. New rubber/tires is $500 every 6-8 years.

The car will out live me and it has higher resale value than any electric car on the used market because it's a rare 5-speed. Which they didn't sell very many of. That's just my beater too. All my other shit is worth far more because the junkies crushed everything during Obama's time as president for $300 at the scrap yard.

You're over here going broke trying to afford a piece of shit. I'm over here saving money because I know how to keep a piece of shit going without breaking the bank.

>>105617891
You are an idiot. You will spend more money on gas than what the battery cost over the lifetime of the car. Instead of filling the tank you simply use that money to pay the loan.
Stop wrongfully criticising things just because you can’t afford them.

>>105617899
The lose 10% of their ability to produce energy each year and the cost of keeping batteries in good condition to take the charge adds up too. As soon as they "pay for themselves" it's time to replace them. But you'd know this if you'd actually researched the technology instead of parroting lies you heard from the MSM. Some of us actually own enough land that we'd be installing fields of these panels if they were worth the time, money and effort.

Now what I'd like to do is build a dam and setup a small hydro plant. Which would provide me with lots of energy. But the state says you can't do that because then they couldn't rape me.

>>105611123 (OP)
My country is going to tax the fuck out of these when the government realizes they can't tax gasoline anymore.

>>105617925
Listen, i don't have all day to explain to you how ass rape expensive batteries are in general. For a car, you are looking at 20-50 grand. You do not use 40 grand of fuel in the lifetime of the vehicle. You are being deliberately stupid. Or you don't drive. I can't figure out which one. I wanted to believe in electric vehicles but companies have fucked this up so badly I just can't.

>>105617933
They lose 10% due to explosion every hour?

>>105617292
if you live in an area where theres less morotcycles and knee grows there is way less cut catalytic converters so the cars will sound quieter and more purr like

>>105617933
I have quite a lot of experience with lithium batteries and no they do not lose 10% a year. They degrade from charging and storage, heating and cooling cycles. Fast charge will skull fuck a battery and its useful life but then that has a lot to do with chemistry as well so it's not a universal truth. I can assure you lithium cells do not "pay for themselves" they are expensive as fuck which is why I end up harvesting them from other sources to make my own packs.

>>105611534
>destroying the used market
this is the only reason we're moving over to EVs it has nothing to do with the environment.

Oh forgot to add. Battery management controllers also have a lot to do with how fast/slow the battery will die. Companies are always penny pinching bastards so they keep removing parts and making these controllers stupid as shit using garbage parts. So even if the cells are good, if one dies, the pack is "dead". You guys should be researching all of this when you start praising this technology. It's fucking wasteful as hell. Nothing pisses me off more than opening a laptop pack and finding 5 good cells out of 6 but the pack is "dead" because the BMC decided one cell is dead so it won't charge and the whole pack is junk. It's fucking annoying and wasteful.

Also, extrapolate this to a car. How many dead cells can a car pack take until it is "dead".

>>105617891
You should be encouraging richer people to buy electric cars if you can’t afford one, this will make the used market way more accessible.
>>105617945
It depends on the car. $4000 to replace the battery of a Nissan leaf, for example.

>>105611123 (OP)
>low range
>cant extinguish it easily if it catches on fire
>exploding batteries
>every single one comes with an os full of spyware/telemetry
>charging the battery takes a long time

>>105617960
That's great. Too bad you can't read and I was talking about solar panels

>>105618048
>For only the cost of a used gasoline car you can keep your piece of shit running for another 5 years
lol. No one wants a Nissian Leaf not even women and niggers. Who are the target market for such a car.

>>105617945
>For a car, you are looking at 20-50 grand.
They're $5-20k.
>You do not use 40 grand of fuel in the lifetime of the vehicle.
Average fuel price in the US over the past 20 years was $3.06. Lifespan of a maintained car is ~250,000 miiles. Average mileage is ~20mpg. Average cost to run an average car with average fuel prices over its average lifespan is ~$38,250.

>>105618194
It depends on how much you use the car.

>On average, most EV batteries last between 10 to 20 years

>>105611123 (OP)
Electric motors produce radiation. Some cars has the motor directly beneath your seat.

>>105611672
It's good in theory but the battery health Jewing will make sure you keep upgrading

>>105618323
Wow marketing lies. The average lifespan of a phone battery is 5 years but they expect me to believe the same technology scaled up to the size of the car is somehow different. Gotta love using most of your energy lugging around that massive battery that's going straight to the dump in 5-10 years.

Let's be real for a moment. This isn't about "going green". It's about taking away and restricting freedom of movement even further than they already have. Can't have a population with a means to travel hundreds of miles in a day on their own using a machine that's easy to repair and work on. No no. Need those new EVs with built in tracking and limited life spans we can sell to idiots that want to "make a difference" and "save the environment" without doing anything themselves. Who cares if we burn a bunch of fossil fuels and lose half the energy sending it over long distance power lines so they can charge them at their homes. They're too stupid to know the difference anyway. Just like they're too dumb to understand we're shaming them for eating meat and buying gasoline we supply. Gotta tax that carbon and CO2. Even though tress breath CO2 and people are made out of carbon.

They're retards. They'll believe anything we tell them. Look anon China just sent some fresh CGI back from the moon. We're going to be 3D printing houses on it in 10 years. Plz send more money. We need to take even more out of your weekly pay to fund the mission. You know it's real because it looks so fake. You need to live in a pod from now on and stop eating real food for the good of the planet. I'm flying in my private jet to Sweden this week to give a speech all about it. Hold in those farts. They're bad for the planet.

>>105618323
And 'last' here means that it can no longer charge to =>80%. That's the 'lifespan' of an electric car, which generally matches or exceeds ICE at 250-300k miles, even if the battery can still hold a charge that can do >150 miles.

>>105618356
This is /g/, generally more intelligent people, not /o/, dumbasses. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

https://youtu.be/_ih1ptOguaM

>>105618356
you aren't going green anyways. the amount of materials used to create that EV is actually more toxic overall than an ICE car.
Lithium mining is a one way trip. Once you dirty the ground and water with its run off its gonna be dead for a long time

>>105618413
>This is /g/, generally more open to our shilling than /o/. Which we've been shitting up for years

>>105618439
oh noes this desert is gonna be... dead?
>the amount of materials used to create that EV is actually more toxic overall than an ICE car.
Absolutely not true. And even if it were, which again it isn't, I'll take localized pollution over the entire atmosphere being toxic any day of the week.

>>105611123 (OP)
They take a day to charge and will only run for a few hours on a full charge, they are also extremely hazardous because the batteries burn so hot it's impossible to get the fire out (the firefighters will just let it burn out naturally because they can't do anything about it).
On top of that the batteries require tons and tons of rare earth materials slave mined in china and timbuktu so in the end they are more environmentally unfriendly than normal hydrocarbon powered cars because producing the batteries requires a lot more waste.

If it weren't for greeen retards lobbying it until politicians give it government funding, they would be completely uneconomical to build.

>>105612324
you'll never ever get any kind of serviceability. that is not happening. what you will get is drive as a service, that's it. and retards will pay for it.
and the problem is not even EV related. the cuckening is happening to ICE vehicles as well, they snitch on you with everything, you're not allowed to remove the internet connection box and all that shit, or your insurance will go through the roof. everything is fake and gae

>>105611123 (OP)
basically nobody is against evs, the only thing they are against is forced replacement, as in colder climates their performance characteristics render them inferior and at worse inoperable.

>>105618471
Also muh lithium mining when there's only couple kg's of lithium in 300kg tesla battery.
I can't drive EV because I have nowhere to charge it and I'm not paying green jew electricity at the price of gas at public charger.

>>105611123 (OP)
Well if you look at the history of vehicle development and follow trends you will no doubt notice that the more electronics a vehicle has in it the more closed down piece of shit trash it is, if you can't change every part in your car yourself without having to pay 5000 dollars for some jewish access code it's trash, simple as.

>>105611672
Retard-take, the issue with EV has never been the engine. It is energy storage. There's only a handful of viable options on the plate. Hydrocarbons is simply king when you factor all of their tradeoffs.
>MAH HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS!
You end-up getting a more dangerous and shitter version of hydrocarbons. Just for stake of trying to get carbon out of the equation.
>MAH LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES!
Much heavier, finite lifespan, more narrow operational temperature range, more toxic. Just trying to take "the carbon" of the equation (assuming you are sourcing the energy from non-carbon burning sources).
The real issue is that we are running out of the easy, cheap energy. The elites and their opulent lifestyles are in jeopardy. They need to convince the unwashed masses to curtail their consume for "sake of the planet!".
Instead of actually making trailblazing efforts to wean off cheap energy. They are doubling down on the consumption and evangelize the masses that "need" to kill off consumption to save the Earth!."You will own nothing and be happy serfs!"

>>105611123 (OP)
I'll just leave this png here.

>>105620815
Yeah, but let's compare how many hydrogen cars are out there compared to electric ones.

I don't believe in global warming even remotely

>>105611535
>It turns out batteries are more damaging to the planet than gasoline, who saw that coming?
You can dilute tailings with all the soil you excavate and you can fill in a pit mine when you're done with it. All within a single human generation. CO2 stays resident a whole lot longer.

The type of damage is not equivalent.

>>105612351
>gasoline car can start even in minus 50ºC. it will start even in minus 80, if you plug the small batery in to start the engine.
In optimal conditions of fuel, battery and oil. In practice you need to plug in block heaters at way higher temperatures because reliability would be total shit when relying on perfect luck.
>the e cars start to fail in minus 20
Design issue. They could have insulated batteries, with the block heater plug to keep it in operating range while parked outside.
>cities cannot suport all the citizens with ecars.
Will get fixed eventually. For a country like Norway which did resistive electrical heating for decades, their grid already laughs at EV loads.
>when you sell used normal car, you are going to get most of your money back.
At net zero it will get a lot more expensive. If society collapses due to global warming too.

>>105611123 (OP)
personality tied to loud noises and consumerism. a car is just an appliance to me. it exists to get me from point a to point b. the less i have to think about it and worry about it and pollute the environment with it, the better.

>>105611123 (OP)
There are 30 gas stations near me. There is one EV station.

>>105611242
fuck you, electric engine sounds are kino incarnate if you are securely heterosexual
battery life and sóy jewcorp proprietary freemium locked down onboard computers are the only problem
these things could be 10x simpler and more maintainable than gas engines but the jews won't let us have that

>>105620815
>trying to extinguish lithium battery with water
Really nigga?

>>105611730
Eh, old Priuses usually have dead batteries, so you get the worst of an EV with a fairly shit ICE bolted to it

>>105617835
how much does it add to the electric bill when you charge an electric car?

>>105617835
how exactly do you imagine acquiring a used electric car?
what will the situation be? the battery died so they're just selling it and buying a new one? if it's so easy and makes so much sense to just put a new battery in it and keep going why not just do exactly that and not sell it?

>>105622532
A Model 3 in WA will cost ~1.58¢ per mile, or about $3,950 over 250k miles. About 1/10th of what you'll pay for in gas >>105618272

>>105622556
Rich people buy shiny new things and they sell the old stuff to poorer people. New cars will get updated with new tech.

>>105622556
>how exactly do you imagine acquiring a used electric car?
People trade up all the time, and affordable EVs have been around for 5+ years. With that plus recent events there is a glut of used EVs now with batteries good for at least another hundred thousand miles that you can find on dealer lots under $25k.
Large numbers of people are trading 400v Model 3s and Model Ys that can charge at 175kW for Hyundai 800v cars that can hit 350kW.

>>105617835
not only the gas but the cost of maintenance for ICE cars too. Once your ICE car hits a certain mileage you either have to start replacing each part bit by bit or buy a whole new car. With EVs all you need to do is replace the tires after X amount of miles and the battery after years of usage and batteries get cheaper and better over time.

>>105622556
If we're talking about an actual, completely dead battery then it's the same thing as if a normal car stopped working with some issue. If it cost more to replace the battery at a dealer than what the car is worth at the time then the owner may decide to sell it, either privately or to their insurance if it's covered - in which case it'd most likely be sold off at a salvage auction.
>if it's so easy and makes so much sense to just put a new battery in it and keep going why not just do exactly that and not sell it?
Same reason why people don't repair cars themselves.

Although batteries completely dying is very rare. A battery past its warranty means it usually can't hold more than 80% charge. That's 'dead' or 'dying' and is typically the worst you'll find on the used market, but they still work and it's still more than enough range for most people's daily commute.

>>105618758
>you'll never ever get any kind of serviceability. that is not happening. what you will get is drive as a service, that's it.
Then they aren't serious about mass adoption

>>105611123 (OP)
Nobody is against electric vehicles, they're against champagne socialist libtards who think we all live in a single city in switzerland creating progressively worse sin taxes on ICE cars and pushing us towards a future where cars will only go where the manufacturer allows and have ads playing in them

also nobody owns a fucking home to charge the fuckers in.

>>105622885
There's a lot of people actively against EVs. It is why fossil fuels still get massive subsidies, while EVs are increasingly getting punitive taxes applied equivalent to fuel taxes you'd pay if you drove hundreds of thousands of miles a year.
Ironically, personal EVs kind of suck in cities, but are much better for people in rural areas. No more having to be dependent on the truck bringing fuel in from the refinery hundreds of miles away.

>>105622885
>and pushing us towards a future where cars will only go where the manufacturer allows and have ads playing in them
This shit can and will happen regardless of EV versus ICE.

You probably won't believe me but EVs really have an opportunity to get rid if the nonsense that entrenched auto manufacturers force on the populace.
Auto manufacturers only exist as they are because of environmental regs that dictate precision engineered engines and transmissions in order to meet MPG and emissions requirements.
Requires an insane amount of institutional knowledge that only established manufacturers have.

Meanwhile a zero emissions vehicle can be made in a garage. It's how China went from being irrelevant to exporting everywhere. EVs don't require institutional knowledge and as such more and more manufacturers are coming in, some with the precise intention of providing more simple vehicles.

Truth be told, people have been making fully repairable and open EVs for literal decades, just at 1:10 scale. Just need to make it 1:1