Hydrogen cars failed because no one wants to have a pressurized gas tank in their car, what were Japanese thinking, going all in on this useless technology?

>>105620542 (OP)
gas tanks and lithium batteries were also super dangerous in their early days. they might make this work eventually.

>>105620542 (OP)
>no one wants to have a pressurized gas tank in their car
Have you ever heard about LPG?

>>105620566
Nah.
It's just physics - small molecule - it leaks easily - hard to contain.
It's a wrong investment on the Toyota's part but kinda a desperate and a forced one - you can't manufacture lithium batteries if you don't have the resources required.

>>105620542 (OP)
The issue with hydrogen is that it is shitty petrol. The fueling process is more cumbersome and expensive; likewise, there are a myriad things that could easily go wrong with current hydrogen vehicle platforms. The only merit it has is simply a safer emissions profile, which no one really cares about - unless they're heavily penalised by their government.
However, electric cars have some advantages that gas can't hope to replicate - charging with any normal electric outlet, powering one's home, and a far more minimalist architecture.
Hydrogen only makes sense for long haul commercial transportation - once we have an excess of renewable energy that could be diverted towards the inefficient electrolysis process.

>>105620542 (OP)
have you even seen lithium battery fires? people are fucking retarded if they think fuel cells are more dangerous

>>105620679
Batteries are dangerous but electricity is easy to distribute. Hauling hydrogen everywhere is not.

>>105620598
>the Toyota

>>105620679
Hydrogen leaks through metal and also makes it brittle
Smelly chemicals to track leaks can't be added to like with natural gas because it would contaminate fuel cell membrane

>>105620692
you can just perform the electrolysis in the car with grid electricity

>>105620542 (OP)
This CO2 obsession is what's killing fuel cells.
It's obvious hydrogen is a bad candidate for it. Much better to use ethanol or or some other fuel, but they produce CO2, so the green grift could not justify it.

>>105620542 (OP)
>no one wants to have a pressurized gas tank in their car
What is LPG for 500 Alex?

>>105620542 (OP)
>meanwhile millions driving around with CNG
Uhhh op you sure

>>105620679
Even that can be solved with just using sodium-ion batteries desu. Also potentially much cheaper and more plentiful.

>>105620542 (OP)
I would unironically buy this, but I'll never own a battery ev, I'd rather walk

>>105620620
yeah, this.
basically hydrogen combines the worst of both worlds (electric/petrol)
it's just a way for petrol companies to either greenwash, or make you go "dammn these more sustainable alternatives suck petrol is so much better!"
why do you think the only car company that cares about hydrogen is also the same car company that took ages to start making EVs and when they did they were dogshit? toyota has been doing anti-ev propaganda for decades and hydrogen slop is just another way to do it

>>105620679

>>105620542 (OP)
Are you stupid or just pretending.

>>105622085
what about petrol/diesel?
lpg and hybrid don't make up many cars

I got to test the Honda Clarity for half a year in San Francisco.
It more or less drove like any other car, except you had to drive to the fucking airport to fill it up, since thats where the only Hydrogen station was.
Still, 6 months of free car use wasn't bad

>>105620585
God hates australia

>>105620542 (OP)
nah, they failed because of how expensive said tank is you inbred mongoloid. get your facts straight.

>>105620542 (OP)

They failed because there is no infrastructure for it in the US. If there was an easy way to modify gas stations for hydrogen, the cars would have a chance. They’re superior to Battery Powered Electric Vehicles.

>>105620542 (OP)
>what were Japanese thinking
Japan was largely ahead of the West in Hybrid power trains. and FCEV technology lines up with hybrid powertrain design.
The electric motor is driven by a constant source of power, and a small battery is used to provide peak output and kinetic energy recovery.

If batteries had stayed $1000 a kWh, the cost of fuel cells had come down, and hydrogen had gotten fossil fuel style subsidies FCEVs may have made sense.
Unfortunately for hydrogen, fossil fuel companies have fought anything else getting subsidies, and BEVs are the only thing that can survive without them.
The cost of batteries has also dropped far more quickly than the cost of fuel cell stacks.

>>105622274
It was made by an American, so "Gas" there refers to petrol and diesel.

>>105620542 (OP)
Hydrogen failed because it costs literally 5-10 times more per mile than gasoline.

>>105620542 (OP)
Hydrogen production takes more energy than just using an electric car.

>>105622535
petrol and diesel aren't gasses (at standard temperatures/pressures)

>>105622759
kys retard pretender

CNG is so cheap, they should do that instead.

I’ll explain. You can’t make your own hydrogen at home so the Japanese government was trying to force it so they could sell it to you. You can make your own energy with solar panels and charge your lithium battery though.

>>105620542 (OP)
>what were Japanese thinking
Japan has plenty of nuclear and wind power. You can use excess power generation to make hydrogen. Its not very efficient to make and then consume hydrogen as energy storage, so you need to offload that inefficiency to a misinformed consumer who will eat the extra cost of hydrogen so they can make a profit off their excess power generation.

>>105622941
Are we sure the answer isn't Japan wanted to reduce their reliance on imported Petrol?

>>105620542 (OP)
They're seething that China beat them to batteries and think that tripling down on hydrogen will somehow help them catch up.

>>105620620
>charging with any normal electric outlet, powering one's home, and a far more minimalist architecture.
This. EV is just way easier since all you have to do is just plug your can in when you get home if you need to charge. Im not too familiar with hydrogen cars but from what I understand you have to switch out canisters sort of like you would with a propane tank for a grill which means youd have to go exchange empty canisters for new ones somewhere which sounds like a pain in the ass.

>>105622077
>why do you think the only car company that cares about hydrogen is also the same car company that took ages to start making EVs and when they did they were dogshit? toyota has been doing anti-ev propaganda for decades and hydrogen slop is just another way to do it
The real deal in regards to toyota is that they have been making bank off of hybrids for ages now. That and being a japanese company means reluctant to change when thats what works for their company.

>>105620542 (OP)
you don't put pressurized hydrogen into a tank. it will get out. it is very difficult to store compressed hydrogen. bulk hydrogen fuel delivery is extremely dangerous, and fires are not uncommon. the operator has to wear a fire resistant suit.

in cars is stored in chemical fuel cells.

>>105620542 (OP)
Toyota will try to push literally anything before accepting EVs lmao

>>105624951
>from what I understand you have to switch out canisters sort of like you would with a propane tank
Would be nice if it could work that way, but the hydrogen tanks for even 5.6kg are too bulky and take up the entire space under the center console, under the rear seats, and also the space where the spare tire would be.

>>105625407
huh, I swear there was a toyota where it has these canisters you take out from the back that were the size of small co2 tanks and thats how you "refueled" but maybe it was just a concept

>>105620542 (OP)
Hydrogen failed because it's not a transitional technology, it's sometimes which only makes sense at net zero. At the moment if EV doesn't work for a niche, you can just use fossil fuel.

At net zero all options suck, so hydrogen sucking matters less.

>>105620542 (OP)
If langmuirs results actually hold water and the hydrino model is viable we could see vindication of walter russels periodic table qnd neglect combusting or fuel celling it for massive energy density

>>105625470
I think I remember that ad too, but it was just a hypothetical future concept.
Toyota is no stranger to deceptive advertising, a lot of people bought into the idea of 'self-charging hybrid' thinking the cars wouldn't need to refuel or plug in.

>>105625530
oh hey time cube is back

>>105624964
>bulk hydrogen fuel delivery is extremely dangerous,
So is petrol, so is ammonia, so is everything. Bulk hydrogen transport is not generally compressed. It's cheaper to just liquefy it, even with the energy cost and the fuckery of dealing with supercold liquid.
>>105624891
>They're seething that China beat them to batteries
China is also doing liquid hydrogen trucks.

Liquid hydrogen is the only hydrogen which makes sense. When semi-trucks start using liquid hydrogen, then range extended EVs could use it too. Because the chicken/egg problem of fuel stations is solved.

You could have a liquid hydrogen version of the upcoming Ramcharger. When you need the range for towing, you go to the truckstop to get some liquid hydrogen. Then the car makes sure most of the liquid hydrogen is gone at the end of your trip, so the slow evaporation is not a problem. The remaining hydrogen can be used to recharge the battery while it evaporates.

>>105620620
EROEI?

>>105620542 (OP)
mazda is STILL trying to put wankel engines in their cars even though it has been proven to be hot garbage by nearly 100 years of failures
they just NEVER want to admit they were wrong lmao

>>105625753
and we love them for that