Anonymous
6/22/2025, 3:27:23 AM No.105666946
... for your incessant distro hopping.
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The Final Solution... - /g/ (#105666946) [Archived: 975 hours ago]
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 3:59:19 AM No.105667141
Honorable mention.
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 4:16:29 AM No.105667250
>>105666946 (OP)
I don't have a billion gigs of ram
I don't have a billion gigs of ram
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 4:30:23 AM No.105667328
>>105667250
Fair, didn't even realize that It took that much ram but wouldn't qubes take just as much; Yet be far less usable than silverblue. On that same not most systems have minimum 16gb of ram in 2025.
Fair, didn't even realize that It took that much ram but wouldn't qubes take just as much; Yet be far less usable than silverblue. On that same not most systems have minimum 16gb of ram in 2025.
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 4:34:49 AM No.105667351
>>105667243
op is not as much as a faggot as you
op is not as much as a faggot as you
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 4:39:21 AM No.105667369
>>105666946 (OP)
I used Qubes years ago. Many things bothered me a LOT
* AppVMs were running as root
* no nested virtualization
* everything complex had to be done by hand
I ended up not using my Qubes computer for years.
I used Qubes years ago. Many things bothered me a LOT
* AppVMs were running as root
* no nested virtualization
* everything complex had to be done by hand
I ended up not using my Qubes computer for years.
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 4:42:45 AM No.105667382
>>105666946 (OP)
Can you make your own Qubes based on Proxmox? How difficult would it be?
Can you make your own Qubes based on Proxmox? How difficult would it be?
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 5:01:17 AM No.105667480
>>105666946 (OP)
False. Qubes isn't a Linux distribution, it's a Xen distribution with a hardened fedora for dom0. You can still distro hop within Qubes when creating templates.
>>105667382
>Can you make your own Qubes based on Proxmox?
No
>How difficult would it be
Very
False. Qubes isn't a Linux distribution, it's a Xen distribution with a hardened fedora for dom0. You can still distro hop within Qubes when creating templates.
>>105667382
>Can you make your own Qubes based on Proxmox?
No
>How difficult would it be
Very
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 5:12:18 AM No.105667537
>>105666946 (OP)
pretty cool but i'm just gonna go with Arcan's sandboxing.
pretty cool but i'm just gonna go with Arcan's sandboxing.
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 5:55:53 AM No.105667751
>>105667480
>>Can you make your own Qubes based on Proxmox?
>No
>>How difficult would it be
>Very
Odd. This guy says he did exactly that by reimplementing stuff from Qubes: https://forum.qubes-os.org/t/proxmox-vs-qubes/33185/14
>Switched to proxmox after qubes. I don’t regret anything, I was able to implement most of qubes functionality myself, including seamless windows, netvm, safe clipboard, file sharing. There are also several advantages, as proxmox can use KVM and LXC, you can use for example lightweight Alpine LXC images as virtual routers, for AppVM - KVM. There is also nested virutalization, which allows you to run things like an android emulator inside AppVM. I’m also very happy that now I don’t have to deal with the “guest footprint” (qubes delivers its Python software to each AppVM, which leads to package conflicts when upgrading).
>>Can you make your own Qubes based on Proxmox?
>No
>>How difficult would it be
>Very
Odd. This guy says he did exactly that by reimplementing stuff from Qubes: https://forum.qubes-os.org/t/proxmox-vs-qubes/33185/14
>Switched to proxmox after qubes. I don’t regret anything, I was able to implement most of qubes functionality myself, including seamless windows, netvm, safe clipboard, file sharing. There are also several advantages, as proxmox can use KVM and LXC, you can use for example lightweight Alpine LXC images as virtual routers, for AppVM - KVM. There is also nested virutalization, which allows you to run things like an android emulator inside AppVM. I’m also very happy that now I don’t have to deal with the “guest footprint” (qubes delivers its Python software to each AppVM, which leads to package conflicts when upgrading).
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 5:57:39 AM No.105667757
>>105667141
Too bad pixels are POS phones
Too bad pixels are POS phones
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 6:24:23 AM No.105667874
>>105667751
That's not the same as Qubes, he seems to have a dunning-kruger impression of Qubes from using it for a few minutes, I guess it's impressive in its own right and is fine if all you want is to just run applications isolated from each other. But then there's no reason you should be interested in Qubes in the first place if all you want to do is run multiple VMs for desktop use.
First of all you can't magically turn debian into a type 1 hypervsior. There's no way he is hiding hardware from the system, even if he somehow re-created some kind of admin VM similar to dom0 in Xen, which wouldn't make any sense since proxmox needs access to the hardware. That is one of the appeals of using Xen in the first place, the reason dom0 is allowed to run such an outdated version of fedora is because dom0 in Qubes doesn't even know the network card exists. If you ignore that problem, to actually re-implement Qubes he would need to rewrite all of the rest of the Qubes tooling like qubes-mgmt-salt, all the messaging systems (for guests and for dom) for allowing updates to be loaded into VMs that don't have access to the internet.
That's not the same as Qubes, he seems to have a dunning-kruger impression of Qubes from using it for a few minutes, I guess it's impressive in its own right and is fine if all you want is to just run applications isolated from each other. But then there's no reason you should be interested in Qubes in the first place if all you want to do is run multiple VMs for desktop use.
First of all you can't magically turn debian into a type 1 hypervsior. There's no way he is hiding hardware from the system, even if he somehow re-created some kind of admin VM similar to dom0 in Xen, which wouldn't make any sense since proxmox needs access to the hardware. That is one of the appeals of using Xen in the first place, the reason dom0 is allowed to run such an outdated version of fedora is because dom0 in Qubes doesn't even know the network card exists. If you ignore that problem, to actually re-implement Qubes he would need to rewrite all of the rest of the Qubes tooling like qubes-mgmt-salt, all the messaging systems (for guests and for dom) for allowing updates to be loaded into VMs that don't have access to the internet.
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 6:36:02 AM No.105667922
>>105667751
The fact that he claims to have re-implemented "netvm" should discredit his entire post since as I established there's no way to conceal the network card from the kernel, so what is the point of that feature then? He talks like someone who has no idea what he's talking about, as long as it appears to work like qubes visually he's satisfied, with no regard for what's actually happening.
His clone also lacks features like the pulseaudio client/server shit, USB handling VM, etc. which can't be implemented because it's proxmox
The fact that he claims to have re-implemented "netvm" should discredit his entire post since as I established there's no way to conceal the network card from the kernel, so what is the point of that feature then? He talks like someone who has no idea what he's talking about, as long as it appears to work like qubes visually he's satisfied, with no regard for what's actually happening.
His clone also lacks features like the pulseaudio client/server shit, USB handling VM, etc. which can't be implemented because it's proxmox
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 6:40:35 AM No.105667945
>>105667874
>>105667922
I'm the anon you replied to. you seem to know a lot about Qubes, hypervisors and stuff. that's cool. where do I start learning about this stuff?
also, what if he's using a separate network card, like pcie card or whatever? or maybe a USB one?
>>105667922
I'm the anon you replied to. you seem to know a lot about Qubes, hypervisors and stuff. that's cool. where do I start learning about this stuff?
also, what if he's using a separate network card, like pcie card or whatever? or maybe a USB one?
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 6:45:46 AM No.105667985
>>105667945
Having an external network card makes no difference, the point is it's still handled by the linux kernel because proxmox is a linux distribution. You need to learn the difference between a type 1 and type 2 hypervisor. You can just go on the qubes website and read about Xen and the changes that were made to it, and why it was chosen (it's an extremely simple operating system with a small attack surface) and you'll get a good idea of why proxmox can't replace it, since proxmox is essentially just a Debian distribution with qemu/kvm frontend, it's just the same as downloading something like virt-manager onto ubuntu or whatever.
Having an external network card makes no difference, the point is it's still handled by the linux kernel because proxmox is a linux distribution. You need to learn the difference between a type 1 and type 2 hypervisor. You can just go on the qubes website and read about Xen and the changes that were made to it, and why it was chosen (it's an extremely simple operating system with a small attack surface) and you'll get a good idea of why proxmox can't replace it, since proxmox is essentially just a Debian distribution with qemu/kvm frontend, it's just the same as downloading something like virt-manager onto ubuntu or whatever.
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 6:49:30 AM No.105668007
>>105667945
Also the reason I said it's very hard to re-implement Qubes is because it's a huge project, the version of Xen that ships with Qubes isn't just upstream with some changes, there's significantly more custom software in Qubes than you will find in other open source operating systems
$ sudo dnf --installed list | grep -i qubes | wc -l
161
Also the reason I said it's very hard to re-implement Qubes is because it's a huge project, the version of Xen that ships with Qubes isn't just upstream with some changes, there's significantly more custom software in Qubes than you will find in other open source operating systems
$ sudo dnf --installed list | grep -i qubes | wc -l
161
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 6:58:05 AM No.105668059
>>105667985
couldn't you have 1 VM as your router and pass the card to a VM (PCI or USB passthrough) to that VM? obviously the card would be visible to Debian until it is passed to the VM, but still.
>You can just go on the qubes website and read about Xen and the changes that were made to it, and why it was chosen (it's an extremely simple operating system with a small attack surface) and you'll get a good idea of why proxmox can't replace it
right, thanks
>>105668007
>Also the reason I said it's very hard to re-implement Qubes is because it's a huge project,
I know, it's obvious that the guy only reimplemented a couple of features, maybe badly and insecurely.
couldn't you have 1 VM as your router and pass the card to a VM (PCI or USB passthrough) to that VM? obviously the card would be visible to Debian until it is passed to the VM, but still.
>You can just go on the qubes website and read about Xen and the changes that were made to it, and why it was chosen (it's an extremely simple operating system with a small attack surface) and you'll get a good idea of why proxmox can't replace it
right, thanks
>>105668007
>Also the reason I said it's very hard to re-implement Qubes is because it's a huge project,
I know, it's obvious that the guy only reimplemented a couple of features, maybe badly and insecurely.
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 7:04:07 AM No.105668096
>>105668059
>couldn't you have 1 VM as your router and pass the card to a VM (PCI or USB passthrough) to that VM? obviously the card would be visible to Debian until it is passed to the VM, but still.
The software handling the passthrough is the kernel. That's how it works, there is no magic happening underneath the operating system that makes the device disappear when you pass it through to a guest. Your admin system is the virtualization host. Passthrough isn't a security feature like that, it's not the same as having a device invisible to the kernel entirely which is what you get with a type 1 hypervisor where the "host" admin system is also virtualized.
>couldn't you have 1 VM as your router and pass the card to a VM (PCI or USB passthrough) to that VM? obviously the card would be visible to Debian until it is passed to the VM, but still.
The software handling the passthrough is the kernel. That's how it works, there is no magic happening underneath the operating system that makes the device disappear when you pass it through to a guest. Your admin system is the virtualization host. Passthrough isn't a security feature like that, it's not the same as having a device invisible to the kernel entirely which is what you get with a type 1 hypervisor where the "host" admin system is also virtualized.
Anonymous
6/22/2025, 7:15:02 AM No.105668153
>>105666946 (OP)
Qubes is unusable, proxmox is very cozy though and easy to learn fun hypervisor to use if you arent threat modeling against 16 eyes or whatever.
Qubes is unusable, proxmox is very cozy though and easy to learn fun hypervisor to use if you arent threat modeling against 16 eyes or whatever.
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Anonymous
6/22/2025, 7:23:27 AM No.105668192
>>105668153
It's not unusable, it's the most comfy operating system of all time. You don't need to be a government target, you just need to be able to appreciate the feeling of being in a heavily fortified bunker for peace of mind while you use the internet. The value to your computer feeling like fort knox is that it's cozy. If you're going as far as to use proxmox as a desktop OS you might as well go all the way.
It's not unusable, it's the most comfy operating system of all time. You don't need to be a government target, you just need to be able to appreciate the feeling of being in a heavily fortified bunker for peace of mind while you use the internet. The value to your computer feeling like fort knox is that it's cozy. If you're going as far as to use proxmox as a desktop OS you might as well go all the way.