>tl;dr: freedesktop are the problem, wayland is well engineered but currently held hostage by a braindead comity where basic features take years to get "accepted", a fork without all this middleman shit make wayland way more appetizing to people who actually want to use their computers
I've always found Wayland a real pain in the ass to use compared to Xorg, having used KDE 6, Sway, Hyprland, and now Velox. As I've got more autistic with building my own software and notably my own toy display server and window managers, I've come to appreciate how Wayland is engineered with a lot less of a monolithic structure compared to the comprehensive but rather cruft-covered Xorg in comparison (kind of like comparing Scheme to Common Lisp). Going back to Velox, the entire compositor and window manager is around 12k loc compared to 420k for normal xorg-server and even smaller than tinyx, a minimal xorg implementation used for tinycore. This isn't just some suckless 'low loc = good' shit either, having a lean codebase may be good for muh security but it also helps keep the desktop portable, something freedesktop don't respect at all, basically telling the BSDs to eat shit and either wrestle with a Linux-centric Wayland or be "left behind" as developers (particularly those aligned with Redhat/GNOME) seem to be actively hostile towards systems not using their latest technologies. The answer here is clearly to take Wayland out of the clutches of Redhat just as they did with XFree86 all those years ago

>>105739473 (OP)
true
they made uncomposited xorg tear on purpose by the way

>>105739473 (OP)
The problem with that is wayland is not a software in itself, it's a spec. That's like saying "we need to make the HTML less bloated" You can try, but how are you going to get every single browser and website to support your version of HTML? It's not as simple as just forking something like Xlibre.

Also pasting this in here from the other Xlibre thread,
>>105739139
It is. They're trying to make it a "X11 luddites that refuse to updoot to wayland" thing.
When really this is about Linux desktop developers revolting against Redhat acting as a shadow Microsoft. Xlibre is the spiritual successor to X11, it's not some desperate attempt to "go back".

>>105739530
I use both xlibre and wayland. there is no need to limit yourself.

>>105739540
Based

>>105739530
very good point, immediately made me remember the standards xkcd and also how kickass the name "Waylibre" would be if this was actually a thing. (do note I'm not too knowledgeable on this so I might get some things wrong here) Ideally this proposed better Wayland spec would be aim to be compatible with the original to avoid major breakage but with less bureaucracy I'm hoping a satisfactory (and potentially even leaner) specification would be developed by the community, which would of course remove all the issues of arbitrary bullshit that leads to something as simple as xeyes being IMPOSSIBLE to implement hahaha I'll never get over that

>>105739716
Yeah Xlibre works because it can just act like an "improved X11" until it's officially supported by a majority of distros. Proposing a new wayland spec is asking Redhat to give away their power for free. Maybe a couple obscure desktop environments might adopt it if your lucky.

>>105739473 (OP)
just luigi the developers in minecraft by accident or something

>>105739928
Meanwhile in reality it's equivalent to sneedacity. Do you newfaggots even remember that?

>>105741078
how is it in any way similar to sneedacity?

>>105741097
Read the commits, nocoder.

nothing stops anyone to write xorg compatible compositor, you know. only support 99% features that modern software uses. that's all. it would be less code than wayland compositor.

>>105741111
i think its weird that it's OK to have like 10 different wayland-compatible compositor, but for xorg, no, we must have only one, and we must support only that old project everybody dislikes.

>>105741078
Sneedacity was literally a meme. No one cares.

>>105741130
So is xlibre. Nothing will happen. I know several people who are involved in it, and if there were real programmers in that project, said subhumans that I won't mention by name, would be booted from it already.

>>105739928
Wayland and the kernel features it relies on were all pushed by Intel, not redhat.

>>105741143
The success of the project so far says otherwise. Spamming buzzwords wont get you anywhere. No one cares, sneedacity spammer.

>>105741288
>success
lmao

>>105741297
Yes having a release in such short time despite constant attacks by corporate shills and already being adopted by several distros is a huge success. It's over, Xorg is deprecated.

>>105741322
Which distro has it in official stable repos?

>>105741333
>which distros have a beta software that's just been released in stable repos
Are you brain damaged?

>>105741344
I accept your concession.

>>105741348
Find somewhere else to shill so you don't waste your time. You obviously don't know how this website works.

>>105741356
Shill what? I'm simply asking about your hallucinated success for your shitware that won't last a year, because X11 just works and doesn't need to be enshittified by some jeets.

>>105741344
>just been released
It's like 30 years old.

>>105741104
even if he did nothing at all (which isn't true), just releasing all the fixes that was already stuck in xorg master for years that they refused to release themselves is already an advantage

>>105741333
>>105741365
>WhIcH DIsTro HAs iT IN oFficiAl StAblE rEpOs?

>>105741365
>because X11 just works
you know xlibre is still x11, right? did you mean xorg?

>>105741365
>Something important is being abandoned in favor of jeet enshittification (wayland)
>It gets forked by it's main developer
>"YUoRe TrYiNG tO EnSHitTIfY X11"

>>105741437
>abandoned
x11 is complete software, it has no usecase for more or less commits.
>>105741398
No, it isn't, xlibre is garbage being syntactically bikeshedded by some nocoder who doesn't know that ^ isn't exponentiation or how computed goto works.

Why does /g/ take paid shills seriously?

>>105741455
>x11 is abandonware!
>redhat is paying people to shill on 4chan about how x11 is actually better than xlibre!
so which is it?

>>105741455
We're on course to /pol/ tier brainrot.

>>105741482
stop using "x11" to specifically refer to xorg

>>105741511
Or what, are you gonna piss and shit yourself over being deadnamed, tranny?

>>105741511
X11 only has 1 implementation.

>>105741525
Which is why I will keep using it and only it, all forks can fuck off
>planning to create some shitty bridge that allows wayland programs to run on xlibre
Seems like a paid plant to slowly drag wayland into x11 and then just as slowly remove x11, leaving only wayland.

>>105741524
>>105741532
Go back.

>>105741570
more like go b-
>ACK!

>>105741607
You know your defending actual trannies and jeets right?

>>105741525
that's not true, many of them are based on xorg code, but some aren't
https://github.com/tinycorelinux/tinyx

>>105741611
>your
No I'm pretty sure I'm against trannies and jeets.

>>105741532
>he doesn't know you've always been able to run wayland programs in x11

Redhat forums
>Those damn nazi fascists how dare they fork the software we're trying to kill!
Xlibre Telegram
>NEVER GIVE UP. With the power of FOSS, we will pierce the heavens!

>>105741449
>trying to adopt a pro-X11 but anti-Xlibre position
Not sure if you are that schizo who was screeching over the guy forgetting the xor operator, or a paid shill

>>105741663
Based and motivational-pilled

>>105741611
I guess xe is also the creator of Mickey Mouse

>>105741671
I do it for free. And unlike xlibrefaggot's work, mine is actually working.

>>105741708
I see, you are the schizo one
I don't think your shilling is working, since thanks to you I understood the funny event
If it weren't by your constant screeching, I would have thought the metux guy was dumb for not knowing the ^ operator and moved on, but as you keet repeating it, I realized that you rarely use xor doing library programming, since it's more about calling functions than computations from scratch

>>105739473 (OP)
Are there developers who would actually be interested in forking Wayland? Isn't xlibre only a thing because of one autist?

>>105741747
I've seen him in other threads too. He will insist Xlibre is a meme fork like sneedacity and accuse random anons of being metux. Only thing he ever succeeds in is derailing the thread at 3 am.

>>105741796
I never accused anyone of being metux, take your meds please.

>>105739473 (OP)
tldr too.long

>>105741762
Xlibre is an implementation of the X11 protocol, just like labwc, hyprland, kwin_wayland are implementations of the wayland protocol

>>105741868
Xlibre is a cloned repo of X11 with fizzbuzzer level no-commits sprinkled on top. It's still X11.

>>105739716
I'll never use anything that spawned here, you ne/g/roes pretending you know shit and are better than anybody else are just plain simple shitters.

>>105741796
He prob wishes that he was getting the attention or something

>>105741889
X11 is the protocol. Xlibre is a fork of Xorg. I tested it and it works better, I'm going to install it on my other computers too except the one that runs labwc (wayland)

>>105741614
tinyx is based on 22 year old Xorg code(which is mostly a copy of XFree86 code). It's had a lot of changes made to it though.

>>105739473 (OP)
Unironically, you are correct.
The autists who are crippling the DE because of the hypothetical scenario that someone could possibly get root access and start reading compositors through a hypervisor are dipshit retards who would prefer if no one used their computer for anything meaningful.

>>105739530
>The problem with that is wayland is not a software in itself, it's a spec.
Fuck off with this, you know exactly what everyone is talking about. Freedesktop's implementation of wayland. There is no one else trying Wayland.

>>105741078
That's still getting updates btw.

>>105741143
>So is xlibre. Nothing will happen.
There's already a release, fuck off nocoder.

>>105741663
Extremely based

>>105743578
>22 year old Xorg code
xorg is 21 years old, so that'd be tricky
yes, i am aware that most other implementation of x11 are just modifications of xorg (which was a modification of xfree86 which was a modifications of x386, which was...)
the point really was that x11, like wayland, is also a spec. there's no software called x11. even if at this point in time there is basically just the one codebase everyone uses, which is currently called xorg, but could soon be xlibre. well it certainly will be if xlibre doesn't die immediately because the xorg guys have already made it clear they don't intend to develop it further.
x11 and xorg have become synonymous as it has been the prevailing implementation for the last two decades, and in any other context it wouldn't have mattered, but statements like "Xlibre is a cloned repo of X11" just plainly don't make sense even if xorg was the only implementation. it'd be like saying "kwin is a clone of wayland"

>>105743662
Woav a release... Can I see the changelog?

>>105739473 (OP)
didn't Valve literally threaten to do this like a month ago if FDO didn't get their shit together?

>>105743922
On their github.

>>105743939
They're not threatening it, they're doing it.

>>105743973
Could you show me exactly where?

>>105743939
>>105743973
To be clear, Valve is trying to fix gayland, they’re not interested in X11 at the moment. That they’re trying tells me that we’ll soon know if gayland is actually viable with fuckyou amounts of corpo backing or it’s simply doomed to failure by its very design

It really is up to valve at this point. FdO gimped X on purpose, and now they're gimping Wayland through pure laziness and ineptitude. These people and companies associated with it deserve to be removed fully from decision making. They have done two decades of damage to the desktop.

Valve forked Wayland a few months ago ("frog-protocols") and it caused a shitstorm comparable to this. They're not exactly chums with the Red Hat/FdO cabal. Valve are also the only reason Linux is gaining in popularity. The ONLY fucking reason. FdO/Red Hat, Ubuntu, those rotten flesh faggots at SuSE. They all completely objectively failed at the Linux desktop, and shouldnt be given any credit and shouldn't be listened to in desktop matters.

I am not nearly well versed enough in the internals or architecture of X vs Wayland to have a good, objective technical opinion. I've seen some tests showing X+a good WM blow a piece of garbage like gnome's mutter out of the water with latency. I've also seen benchmarks showing Wayland/a decent compositor like Kwin slightly edging out X in gaming FPS. There are concerns about code reusability, features, re-implementation of features being a necessary of Wayland, Xorg being tough to work with, etc etc etc.

At the end of the day, what I know is, for TWO FUCKING DECADES Freedesktop has done almost nothing else besides ram trashy, divisive, broken slop at FOSS devs and users. That entire time, the "year of the linux desktop" became a laughable meme. Valve steps in and all of a sudden, despite whatever technical hurdles are there, progress is being made.

tl;dr Kill Freedesktop.

>3 xlibre shill threads
organic.

>>105741611
this troon has shipped software and you haven't
crazy

>>105741979
>it works better
it literally doesn't add or fix anything. did they pay you 5 shekels for this post

Reminder that Windows had their Wayland equivalent with WDDM all the way back in Windows Vista in 2007. Mac OS X did all the way back 2001 with QuartzExtreme. Linux on the desktop is a perpetual meme, which is why Google made their own display servers for Android and ChromeOS.

>>105744460
as a linux user i do agree that the whole situation is quite embarrassing. i really don't know what the solution is
that said, being a community effort, there isn't really anyone to blame, that's the big difference, both nobody and everybody is at fault. but in terms of what we objectively have at this moment, it's not a good position. could be worse, but linux is generally expected to be better than the competition, and in this case it's not living up to that

>>105744542
We know who is to blame, the people in charge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedesktop.org

But there is a failing of the general community, in that we have allowed this shit to go on for so long. These people should have been kicked to the curb a decade ago.

>>105744542
>being a community effort, there isn't really anyone to blame
if only it were a community effort

>>105744786
it is, because the community letting a small group take control of a major component is itself something the community is responsible for
it's foss. by definition anybody can take over a project by making a fork, nobody is truly forced to do/use anything.
now i understand something major like a display server is not so easy to just drop and use something else, but anyone who gives up and uses a shit solution is in part responsible for it being shit

>>105744443
It actually breaks a lot of things in subtle ways.

>>105744841
redhat is not a community nor a small group

>>105744841
"Small group" that actually knows how to program and cares enough to program, you mean? Nocoders like you know how to write words words words on 4chan and reddit, but when you look at github, you don't see any commits from them.

>>105739716
>pic
I don't care how many standards there are (usecase for limiting standards? t. ebussy) I just want at least one that's not absolute dog shit.

>>105744127
>Valve is trying to fix gayland, they’re not interested in X11 at the moment. That they’re trying tells me that we’ll soon know if gayland is actually viable with fuckyou amounts of corpo backing or it’s simply doomed to failure by its very design
It is simply doomed because it has corporate backing. That corporation is IBM and their interest is making Linux a walled garden

>>105744841
>>105744917
>>105744542
Just say it's fucking IBM you evasionist cunt.

>>105744443
>>105744007
>it literally doesn't add or fix anything
It's close to 1K commits ahead of X11. You're jsut a nocoder retard who can't read a commits page.

Many, many, many such cases on /g/ - Tech shills from big corpos and their Jeet swarms

>>105745238
the IBM Jeet is intentionally being obtuse like Freedesktop didn't purposefully close a shitton of MRs and then freeze the X11 repo to get back at the XLibre guy.

>>105745238
1K commits of what exactly?
Name one feature. Do you autistic nocoders know what changelogs are?

Wayland should have gone with egl streams as Nvidia recommended.

>>105745238
>It's close to 1K commits ahead of X11.
It's easy to be a thousand commits ahead when you commit literally every time you change a line of text.

fun fact: both chromium and firefox launch in Xwayland by default and need an env var or launch option to open in wayland mode

>>105745238
"Seeeiiir I committed 1k of macros name changes seeeiirrr"

What exactly did they achieved in those 1k changes?, more ABI breakage?