Why should I care about the X11 vs Wayland if I want a "it just works" distro that isn't overcomplicated? Rocking a Nvidia GPU and Intel CPU

>>105761466 (OP)
Why should we care if you care? You either do or you don't. I know better than try to point out right or wrong on 4chan. You stupid kids eat tide pods/

>>105761478
In other words...it's a meaningless debate for someone like me and isnt of any relevance?

>>105761466 (OP)
>if I want a "it just works"
Install Windows IoT LTSC

>>105761581
>like me
No one here knows who the fuck you are. If you don't care, then yes it would be meaningless to debate. If you do care, then it would mean something if you were educated about the topic and had to decide based on your principles which way to go in regards to your software.

>>105761466 (OP)
I guess because your opinion matters in case people work together against the madness that is Wayland. It's shit and they intentionally sabotage Linux.

>>105761466 (OP)
if you dont already know why, it doesnt matter to you, just go with whatever desktop environment you like.

>>105761466 (OP)
You shouldn't. As long as it works I don't care what display server my OS uses, I don't directly interact with it.
Kind of same with systemd but okay it does objectively suck when it spends 2 minutes waiting on a hung process to shut down instead of just killing it. There could at least be a "fuck whatever is running" keyboard shortcut for the impatient...

>>105761711
So, develop for X11 then anon. It's free software no one force your to use Gnome implementation if you are sure that X is better.

Nvidia hates Linux for some reasons. They also tried to do shit on windows but bill gates broke them hard during windows vista development (they redesigned the entire graphics stack), literally telling Jensen that Nvidia will not get a license if they don't start to listen and comply which would have killed Nvidia.

>>105762479
>Nvidia hates Linux for some reasons
NVIDIA's drivers work; Wayland does not.

>>105762664
>NVIDIA's drivers work
They don't and Nvidia tried to push non sense stuff like eglstream until a Nvidia dev working on KDE realized how bullshit it was. It took ten years for Nvidia to stop ruining the linux graphics stack.

>>105762726
>stack
Disregarded your entire post.

>>105761581
Depends if you want HDR to "just work", or if you want global hotkeys to just work, or if you want VRR to just work, or if you want screen capture to just work, or if you want your games to create a window in the proper screen and not leave it to literal random chance.
Some of these work on Wayland, some of these work on X. Why can't we have all of these in a timely manner? Because it's FOSS.

>>105761581
If whatever you are using works, and that's all you care about, then yes, this debate is meaningless.

I care about these things because I like to tinker and write code.

>>105761466 (OP)
>Wayland
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/179

A fucking joke, is what it is.

>>105762726
>until a Nvidia dev working on KDE realized how bullshit it was.
?

>>105763300
Erik Kurzinger from Nvidia implemented the eglstreams backend for the kwin compositor. He quickly realized that eglstreams were a dead end. Nvidia eventually abandoned eglstreams and implemented GBM like the other drivers but it took them ten years.

>>105763420
didn't novideo make drivers for freebsd which then trickled down to linux somehow

>>105762664
>NVIDIA's drivers work
they don't even work on windows
https://www.techpowerup.com/332944/nvidia-investigates-geforce-rtx-50-series-blackwell-black-screen-and-bsod-issues

>Notice how no one cares about WDDM in Windows
>Notice how no one cares about QuartzExtreme in MacOS
>Notice how no one cares what Android/ChromeOS uses

Because they just fucking work. Display managers are a Gnome problem. In fact all "desktop linux" criticisms are actually Gnome problems.

And people hate Windows "spying" on them but guess how they fix all the bugs?

>>105761466 (OP)
>"it just works"
No such thing on Linux.

>>105762479
>Nvidia hates Linux for some reasons
I wish it wouldn't require such a massive capital investment and logistical headache to set a non-kiked computer hardware corporation to compete with Nvidia/AMD/Intel. I would love for there to be a chip manufacturer that doesn't pull all the bullshit the other ones do even if it meant their chips weren't as fast or cheap.

If I was a billionaire that would be the number one thing I would do with my money even if it turned me into a millionaire. I would also base it entirely in the US to bring back manufacturing jobs here and make us less dependent on Taiwan so we would be in less direct competition with China, and try to get DoD contracts so I have an excuse to not outsource or hire visajeets.
Alas, I'm a broke NEET and I got into software and not business or hardware so I can't fulfill this dream of mine on my own.

>>105761466 (OP)
you shouldn't. neither windows nor macos has this problem, which is your first clue that this is just another case of a unix-like overcomplicating shit the end-user shouldn't have to care about.

>>105764024
dwm.exe enabled or disabled was a huge issue on windows before microsoft forced it on everyone

>>105762423
I'm not a coder. And they literally do force people. AMDGPU kernel driver doesn't work on xorg rn (causes lag with some mouses). There is a patch but I got kernel panic a few times (can be because of firmware mismatch).

Just installed kubuntu 25.04 with Wayland
Using Nvidia 570 driver, triple monitor setup, no issues whatsoever for a few months now
Wayland has come a long way, it's not 2015 yet you all repeat 2015 talking points.
X is in maintenance mode and no longer the default, it's literally over.
You people are hyperbolic retards

>>105765023
Global hotkeys still don't work unless you run programs in XWayland mode.

>>105761581
Pretty much. The Nvidia driver sets the desktop to X or Wayland, depending on whatever DE is running. In most cases you shouldn't need to change this manually.

>>105761466 (OP)
Do you care about being able to take screenshots of YOUR screen? Do you care about having the freedom to use macro tools like xdotool? Do you care about having your window manager backend built around user experience or commercial interrests like DRM and sandboxing?

If you care, you should still go with x11 and give wayland and DRM the finger. There isn't much reason to aggressively push wayland aside from the sandboxing and DRM capabilities, that will finally give you 4k netflix goy slop on your linux desktop!

Are you prepared to give up your freedom for netflix? If so, go suck some wayland cock.

>>105762479
>hates linux for some reason
>has provided working drivers for like a quarter of a century if not longer
okay
but what other company has such a track record of supporting linux?

>>105762726
EGLstreams are literally the superior solution versus GBM, and Wayland et al have had to backtrack and fix shit due to their own idiotic and shortsighted design decisions.

>>105761466 (OP)
if you have a big high dpi screen you want wayland for the scaling, otherwise it doesn't matter for you just use whatever works

to be honest ive had kde randomly switch between x11 and wayland and i havent noticed any difference. if someone makes a wm i like ill switch to it no matter the protocol, although void linux wont package xlibre and im too lazy to swap distros

>>105765023
Kubuntu is blacklisted.

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/301319568a554abe7426c02eb5e19b5a

>>105765023
> RedHat and my silicon valley overlords told me X11 is dead and that I should switch to DRMland.
Linuxh as become too accesible, now its turning into consumerist slop controlled by tech giants.

>>105761581
>it's a meaningless debate
Yes. It is.
Some losers don't like change. It was always like this.
Some people here are old enough to remember when Xorg replaced XFree86 and the mail lists were the same shit.
Some people kept "updating" XFree86 up to 2008, years after it had been replaced...
What was the point of that? NONE. It was just losers, no different from the ones who think Xorg (and all their unfixable issues) has a chance to be used again.

Wayland is the new standard, and forking xorg into something that doesn't even support wayland out of spite (yes, you can run xorg applications inside wayland, but you can't run wayland applications inside Xlibre) will just make it a snowflake program that is used by a niche of enthusiasts who brag about running it daily on their computers but in reality just have it in a VM for internet points.

If the wayland devs listened to the community and didn't spend years to use basic shit like turning off vysnc or actually worked with the community instead of being hostile with them for basic request they would be respected more. Nobody likes a overly opinionated faggot trying to take over a space when they have no fucking idea what the users in the space want.
Valve has to threaten them every few months just for them to add basic shit

>>105766023
What community?
You mean the half-arsed developers who wanted Wayland to be a drop-in replacement for Xorg?
Fuck them.

>>105766016
If you just close all pull requests its no wonder that things dont get fixed. The same people who push wayland also pushed for a stagnant x11 for years, just to push their half baked interface as the only viable alternative.
Forks of xorg gets rejected from all the silicn valley affiliated distros based on nonsensical hearsay and personal shit that really shouldnt matter in open source and free software.
On top of that Wayland troons have a terrible habit of simply ignoring the fact that generally X11 is much better for the end user and gives them more power in terms of being able to screenshot ANYTHING and inject and intercept user input for macros and shit. You wayland nerds just ignore those facts, always.

>>105766072
Xorg is dead. There is no point in allocating human capital to waste time trying to add features to dead software.
It's been dead since 2012.

>>105766098
Again you completely disregard the fact that wayland doesnt offer functionality that some users want. I want to use tools like xdotool, I would prefer to be able to screencapture ANYTHING even if its from netflix for instance, wayland does away with all of that in the name of "security", shouldnt really be neccesary when all the software running on my PC is open source, right?

Wayland is the first step to turning linux into something that resembles windows in terms of end user hostility, and you are not even trying to argue against that, its built with commercial interrests in mind and not the end user.

>>105766118
They're right.
xorg is dead.
Long live xlibre.

>>105761466 (OP)
You shouldn't
Use mint that runs x11, use bazzite or pop os that run wayland, whichever just works distro is best for you
Eventually mint will move to wayland too and there won't even be a "choice" you need to worry about

>>105766016
> Some losers don't like change
I am going to amputate all your limbs
"No I don't want that"
Your just afraid of change
Having limbs is deprecated

>>105766570
Yeah who needs limbs, at least you have 4k netflix, be grateful you consumer swine!

>>105765953
Eglstreams was plain retarded, dude. It was userland only. One example. If App_a creates a rendering buffer, shares it with App_b then crashes, the kernel would clean App_a ressources by deleting that buffer. Now app_b is using a non existing buffer and crashes too. That's why you need the kernel to manage that, like with GBM. Nvidia realized that when they worked on kwin and cancelled the whole eglstreams thing (completely removed from kwin now).

>>105766118
It's worse than windows. You can make a screenshot on windows. You have autohotkey on windows.
>>105766023
community means gay circle of developers and their faggot simps on reddit and bluesky/twitter/mastodon or whatever echo chamber they are concentrated in

>>105763005
that's why democracy is a mistake. every project should have one dictator that single handedly makes decisions. there is no point in these "discussions".

>>105767170
What's wrong with that? Use app_c to handle to buffers?

>>105768372
and if app_c crashes?

>>105766118
Ironically, the Windows "Desktop" is more user friendly AND developer friendly than Linux ever was, while being more secure (I'm serious...look at how VBS/Hyper-V works, and https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/linux.html).

There is nothing on Linux that comes close to the features of ShareX,IrfanView and Autohotkey.

Too many Linux devs waste time porting programs between GUI toolkits,unnecessary rewrites in *insert language here*, and bikeshedding basic functionality for years.

Developers on Windows can focus, and polish the hell out of their 2006 desktop app, on a Windows 11 in 2025. To users, their programs just work like they did before.

Ask yourselves this, when was the last time you've heard a new version of DWM breaking anything?