>Be me
>Decide to make Proton account because Google is doing evil shit again and Gmail is the only thing still trying me to their ecosystem
>Basic plan is only a few dollars per year, sounds good. Looking forward to a privacy upgrade
>Only payment methods are Paypal and card
>Check for other payment options, apparently you can use bitcoin??
>...But only if you already have an account
>Well fuck, okay, I'll make a free account first and then upgrade
>WAIT! don't you want this discount? if you give us your paypal or credit card details NOW, you could save... like $7! but you can't use bitcoin for this offer, teehee
>fuck off
>WHOAH NOW! you must be some kind of bot then! you're gonna have to give us your email address!
>bitch I am here to make an email address, and I don't want it associated with my old one
>here is a disposable email instead
>UH OH! we've detected suspicious activity! Contact us if you want us to do something about it. By email! Please, just give us something to identify you with!
I had my doubts about their privacy claims, and I realize email is inherently insecure. But they're not even trying at all, are they?
Is there an email service that ACTUALLY lets you have some shreds of privacy?

>>105785676 (OP)
you used to be able to send them cash

>>105785676 (OP)
Not really, unless you host your own which is a pain. No matter who your provider is, your emails are on someone else's computer. If you really want privacy, encrypt them client-side. Email is stupid bullshit anyway, just let google sir handle it.

>>105785676 (OP)
mailbox.org

can send cash in letter

>>105785676 (OP)
>email
its not private protocol
and cant be "improved" to become one

after lavabit no there is no private email at all, in fact all countries have laws taht force all email providers to share everything

>he doesn't do "trust escalation" using multiple email providers of varied "checking" leniency
if you're opportunistic or use you brain you can create new bubbles out of thin air

>>105785676 (OP)
Don't use mail if you want privacy. That said, if Proton isn't your cup of tea, try Tuta Mail. Don't trust it 100% since it is a german product.

>>105785860
what, by blowing through pressed lips with a bit of spit on?

>>105785676 (OP)
Use a berd. More realiable.

>>105785676 (OP)
>bitcoin
every transaction and wallet balance is public. they don't support monero = 100% tracking you openly and publicly and publishing that information to literally everyone who want to see it. I know, if they accepted monero, they still could disclose that you paid them, but only that you paid them and how much, not your whole financial activity history, and not automatically to literally all of humanity
>UH OH! we've detected suspicious activity! Contact
and if you make a fresh account without phone number or recovery email or anything and try to get a 4chan verification the hit you with the "oops, an email verification attempt was detected, pwease don't use us as a throwaway email and give us your phone number instead ;)"
+ don't forget that time they leaked as much info they could about that journalist

>>105785989
what is berd?

>>105785676 (OP)
>Is there an email service that ACTUALLY lets you have some shreds of privacy?
There are some DW-only providers. They obviously don't ask for PII.

>>105785809
Then they could just not have the data. Works for Signal well enough.

>>105785860
>Just make sure you got many more additional points of failure and leaks

>>105785884
>Don't trust it 100% since it is a german product.
Not like switzerland fares much better now

>>105786104
>if they accepted monero,
Apparently they are 'considering' it currently. I doubt that they will do anything considering their other behavior.
>+ don't forget that time they leaked as much info they could about that journalist
I believe they did that again recently. They should've learned that they need to reduce the amount of data they can have. But while we're at it: Don't forget the time you wanted to make a new account on their site and they lead you back to their clearnet site without any warning or notice.

>>105785676 (OP)
can't relate. been using proton for years and they just keep getting better and better. don't regret my 2 year renewing sub whatsoever
love me proton pass email aliases too

>>105785809

/Thread

>>105785676 (OP)
Fuck services for requiring this piece of garbage known as email when you sign up.

>>105786104
>+ don't forget that time they leaked as much info they could about that journalist
qrd? from a "privacy focused" company like proton, doing that even once should've had them dead in the water so i feel like there's more to this

>>105786477
NTA, they basically got served a swiss court order that they need to give out info on some french activist. Proton complied which lead to the arrest of said activist.

>>105786372
>I doubt that they will do anything considering their other behavior.
agreed
>Don't forget the time you wanted to make a new account on their site and they lead you back to their clearnet site without any warning or notice
oh yes, I'd forgotten about that; thanks for the reminder

>>105786477
he's right >>105786924
https://therecord.media/protonmail-forced-to-collect-an-activists-ip-address-in-police-investigation

>>105786924
>>105785676 (OP)
imagine using proton. lmao >>105787154

>>105785884
fed

https://archive.org/details/nov3am/page/14/mode/2up?q=Tutanota
https://archive.org/details/nov3pm/mode/2up?q=Tutanota
https://archive.org/details/nov6am/mode/2up?q=Tutanota
https://archive.org/details/nov6pm/mode/2up?q=Tutanota
https://archive.org/details/cross_202311/page/n21/mode/2up?q=Tutanota

>>105787461
But is it true? I'm checking the links right now, but iirc Tuta denied it and suggested that anyone can audit the code.
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366559333/Encrypted-mail-service-Tuta-says-it-was-wrongly-accused-of-being-a-front-for-intelligence-services

>>105787543
It turned out to be a big nothingburger

>>105787543
they obviously wouldnt admit it and would 100% lie about it but who knows, he couldve just made it up, not sure why he would though as I wouldnt expect it to help his case

>>105785676 (OP)
privacy != anonymity

>>105787724
Both paypal and cards are not good for privacy. BTC is even worse, so i guess them gatekeeping that is an improvement.

>>105785783
this
As much as I love email, it's very dated and limited and I wish we had something better and standardized by now. I mean, if you just want to mitigate email spoofing you need the whole spf+dkim+dmarc stack, this should not be necessary and is a sign that current email protocols are not covering our requirements in 2025. Instant messaging protocols have this figured by now, even xmpp with omemo is fairly secure

>>105787750
How is btc even worse? I don't know much about crypto but I thought it was the sole point of that aside from asset gambling

>>105788753
you're thinking of monero (xmr), not bitcoin (btc); common mistake
bitcoin was the first decentralized proof of work cryptocurrency, but it's essentially just a public ledger, a record of how much each miner earned and which wallet sent how much to which, all unencrypted, for everyone to see. no privacy here
monero came a few years later, and it's the same idea: a public record of transactions, but encrypted; and addresses aren't recorded, but their signatures are; etc etc. I'm done spoonfeeding, go google it

>>105785676 (OP)
i pay for posteo.de by mailing cash

>>105787543
I think it was a lame attempt at a defense from that rogue glownigger