Thread 105830900

>stable
>programs are out of date

Why would anyone want to use this piece of shit design? On macOS and the BSD's there is a separation between the kernel and user space packages that can allow you to have a stable system while having more up to date programs. Who the fuck wants to use software that is multiple years old?

for example, freeBSD has freebsd-update and pkg update, why doesn't linux have something similar?

>>105830900 (OP)
Firstly, Debian is only one Linux distribution. Debian and Linux are not the same thing.

Secondly, Debian is an outlier in this regard; most distributions don't wait as long before upgrading software in the stable repositories, but Debian does because they have very strict policies regarding stability and security. If that's a deal-breaker for you then don't use Debian - you can even use one of its downstream derivatives like Ubuntu or Linux Mint and they'll fix your problem for you.

Thirdly, Linux has several options for software distribution and there's nothing stopping you from just installing updated versions of software yourself if it's that important to you. It's literally no harder than it is on Windows.

>>105830977
>reddit spacing
lol

Debian is my daily driver and I look like this (pic related)
>programs are out of date
Debian packages aren't out of date, security issues in the versions shipped in stable are manually patched by the debian maintainers all the time. Sometimes they even backport security fixes so you don't have to risk the software changing.

>>105831004
>security issues in the versions shipped in stable are manually patched by the debian maintainers all the time
nice you get half of an update for no reason

>>105830900 (OP)
It's a server os, anon
>>105830992
Those are paragraphs, newfag

>>105831012
That's the point
What you are complaining about is a feature, not a bug. If you like software updooting and you like to see all the installation script running and text scrolling by like the matrix, you can use Arch and run pacman -Syu everyday instead

>>105831015
nta but honestly, you didn't need them there because there was no conclusion, you just separated your ideas in numeric points.

>>105830900 (OP)
de-benis

>>105831004
proof??

>>105831065
conclude on deez nuts

>>105831065
I wasn't writing a five paragraph essay with an introduction, argument, and conclusion. I was identifying specific things that the OP got wrong and addressing them individually in order to make each of my points as clear as possible. I've found that to be a generally helpful method of communication, especially when explaining technical information to people who have demonstrated a lack of understanding.

>>105831030
>inferior design is a feature, ACKshually

It's okay to admit troonix is worse than the BSD's and macOS in this one regard.

>>105831124
>enters discussion about the maintenance of a specific linux distribution's stable repository
>brings up apple and BSD
>also mentions troons unprompted
Pic related

>>105831065
>just separated your ideas in numeric points
Gee willikers anon I sure wish there was a word for that

>>105831065
I'm also nta that wrote the paragraphs, I'm just pointing out that's not redditspacing (which is a newfag trap anyway, no-one cared about redditspacing prior to 2016)

>>105831191
Yesterday there was a schizo on a thread who was mass replying to everyone who used newlines general (not even markdown double line breaks) and accusing them of "reddit spacing"

>>105831191
2016 was a decade ago doe
Face it, people who started using this site in 2016 are oldfags

>>105831124
I'm sorry, are you really trying to argue that macOS makes fewer sacrifices to the user experience in the name of security and stability than Linux in general, after getting called out for not knowing you could install software independently of your distribution's package manager?

>>105831223
>2016 tourists are oldfags
lol, no

>>105831246
It's time for you to grow up anon. You're almost 40, and you can't use this website forever.

>>105831268
I'm over 40

I don't need to update nothing to new versions except for Firefox. I'm thinking about switching from leap to debian because I'm tired of reinstall stuff from scratch even 18 months. Just waiting for Debian 13 to try

>>105830900 (OP)
"Stable" distros are a mental illness.
>Maybe my system is 2 years out of date and incompatible with everything, but it's STABLE!
Then these retards will go and recommend the stable distros to newbies because "stable is safe", but they have no answer when asked "bro I have this issue with this program but it's fixed in the latest version, how do I update?"

>>105831427
You can install Debian 13 right now
It's in hard freeze so release is imminent. When it switches from testing to stable (probably within the next month) you won't have to update or change anything, it will just continue working

How to get the latest Firefox without relying to flatpaks

>>105831449
>but they have no answer when asked "bro I have this issue with this program but it's fixed in the latest version, how do I update?"
This is your personal skill issue

>>105831482
https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox#From_Mozilla_APT_repository_.28recommended_by_Mozilla.29
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux#w_install-firefox-deb-package-for-debian-based-distributions-recommended

>>105831485
Yeah bro, Canonical has been brainwashing everyone to suggest Ubuntu as the "easiest Linux for new users" but when the new users realise that their word processor is missing major features because it's 5 months out of date it's a skill issue. Oh right, you're supposed to use the Snap store now, because it turns out that nobody fucking wants "stable" packages after all, what we really want is not to be fucked by shared library bullshit but The Unix Way is to force every fucking program on the machine to share the same library binaries because this save 1MB of ram

>>105831498
Big thanks.

>>105831471
I'll wait a few more weeks because i need a new ssd.

>>105831532
Nobody ever brought up ubuntu

>>105831594
I brought up Ubuntu, that's what retarded gorillas tell new users to install. If you're a /g/ autist and understand what a "stable" distros implies and how to deal with it you're on your own, but if you tell a clueless newbie to use a stable distro because it's "safer" and "easier" then you are a retard. Stable means outdated, it's not for everyone

>>105831634
Ubuntu isn't a stable distro, nobody ever calls it one either

>>105831634
>tell new users to install Ubuntu
until 2014-2016, I guess.

>>105831120
it looks terrible and can be distracting, you were already adressing your stuff in numerical order directly so no one with a functional brain would get lost reading your text, you dont need to babysit other's people brains like that.

>>105830900 (OP)
Debian is great on the desktop if you use apt pinning to pull selected packages (e.g. kernel, browser) from Unstable and everything else from Testing. But you need to monitor apt-list{bugs,changes} in case you get rug-pulled. And it's not a setup you'd recommend to someone that doesn't want to baby their OS.

In reality, the only sane option for desktop Linux is Fedora with rpmfusion.

>>105832303
>if you use apt pinning to pull selected packages (e.g. kernel, browser) from Unstable and everything else from Testing.
that'd become such a mess, just use testing if you want new stuff or stable if you want the debian experience (that is 2yo packages).

>>105832368
It's not a mess at all if you pin things right. It actually works quite well. The problem is that neither Testing not Unstable are intended for production use despite them being usable in this capacity 99% of the time.

Built a new PC a month ago, and I'm waiting on 13 to go stable. I'm trying to think of what I should set up for after installation; backports, non-free firmware, automated updates, etc. Anything that's recommended for a fresh install, that I'm missing?

>>105832431
debfoster. Debian is horrible at tracking groups of packages.

>>105832391
it could be a pain to fix if anything breaks and some compatibilities could come along but yes it can work.
>The problem is that neither Testing not Unstable are intended for production use
what do you mean? that the devs dont guve you any guarantees that it will work or that they just dont work?

>>105832303
>the only sane option for desktop Linux is Fedora with rpmfusion
I'm starting to think so too with fedora KDE, after I distrohopped a lot(I used, debian, arch, gentoo, parabola, trisquel, ubuntu, mint, pop_os and etc)

minimal distros like gentoo and arch aren't really worth it if they break and require maintenance. and mint looks like it's competing with windows 7, it looks old.

>>105830992
>being this gullible
You have to suck Tioga060's cock first and then KYS.

>>105832438
>It could be a pain
The most painful thing about pinning is having to explicitly install any new dependencies from the other release. For example, say you pin just the Firefox source package to pull from Unstable and you "apt install -t sid firefox" to install it. Firefox installs from Unstable and all its dependencies from Testing. But then a new version of Firefox hits Unstable and it depends on packages that are only in Unstable. In this case, "apt update && apt dist-upgrade" will hold Firefox at its current version. You have to once again "apt install -t sid firefox" so that the new dependency gets installed from Sid.
>guarantees
The Debian team only intends for Stable to work. Testing and Unstable exist solely to make new versions of Stable. If they break and you whine about it and can't fix it yourself, you're not going to get much love from official support channels. You are expected to know what you are doing more so that using Stable.

>>105832449
Same but Fedora Workstation for me.

>>105832303
Pinning makes things unstable, rpmjeets has been known to cause issues, ur best bet is simply dealing with your codecs yourself, debian ships with them, for example.

>>105832243
We're talking about a person who gets thrown by the concept of installing programs without using a package manager. If I intend to communicate productively with them, clearly I must give them the best chance I possibly can to actually understand me.

>Not dumping information into a giant wall of text looks terrible and is distracting
You clearly have a lot more experience with reading impenetrable and poorly-formatted strings of text than the average person. You don't interact with a lot of normies in your day-to-day life, do you?

>>105832592
I'll take my chances with rpmfusion. It hasn't let me down yet. Debian is definitely my favourite distro from a philosophical point of view but I just find Fedora more usable.

>>105830900 (OP)
>Who the fuck wants to use software that is multiple years old?
It's stable. what's the problem?

>>105832854
It sucks missing out on the latest DE.

>>105832595
all i saying is that starting short sentences in a numeric order should have been enough of a clue that your points are separated, it already mentally alocates the reader, no need for paragraphs in that case.
you did it again btw, there was absolute no need here too, since the quote is of a different colour, that was pointless and distracting but im not arguing any further since we wont be able to change each other's mind.

>>105830900 (OP)
Why aren't you using mature software that already has 9/10 features you need that is only updating every few months anyway? Stop being a contrarian and using bullshit-ass software made by IndieDev2002 that updates with new bugs every 2 hours, just because the UI isn't "aesthetic" enough for you.

>>105833446
>all i saying is

>>105832924
Imagine installing a DE on Debian stable of all things.

>>105830900 (OP)
I used Debian with "Homebrew on Linux" for old packages and it was pretty comfy. I switched because I wanted to try hyprland (couldn't get it working on Debian) and I've just been on Arch ever since. It's just much simpler to use yay/paru for everything. I don't think I'm gonna go back.

>>105834489
I use Homebrew too just like on macOS
It’s weird but it works
I have Debian stability and new versions of the kinds of random things I use on macOS

>>105834652
>It’s weird but it works
Pretty much my experience also. Sucks that it's written in ruby and is slow as fuck but I enjoyed it.

All of Linux is like that unless you're willing to embrace appimages. What Linux devs don't understand is that they need to create a stable platform target for software devs, not the other way around.
I use Linux but I hate this autism where every software has to be integrated with the entire OS. An app installed to /opt or an appimage never failed me.

>>105832924
>It sucks missing out on the latest DE.
nope, been enjoying rock solid plasma 5.27.5 on bookworm for 2 years.

>>105831532
Immutable rolling release plus flatpaks should be the standard recommendation for general desktop users

>>105830900 (OP)
Literally just install base system with your favorite DE, and get all GUI apps, tools etc from snap, flatpak, nix, compile yourself etc.
Are you really that much of an updooter that you need your file manager, terminal and window manager to be the latest of the latest all the time?