Did Steam really fix PC gaming?

>>105964934 (OP)
Yes compared to disc DRM and dealing with patches it's much much better.

>>105964934 (OP)
no. but what they did do was provide a platform for game developers to save money (no physical media, boxes, manuals etc.) while still charging you full price for slop that should have been flagged by beta testers, not using the public as your beta testers. you will own nothing.

>>105964956
>being able to choose what version of a game you want to play is a bad thing
whta a retard

>>105964967
Only soulsfags care about version unless specific game got censored. But in most games, it just becomes better with patches but there are games like Spore where it's like 8+ of them and you need to install them in order. Also many Steam games give you the option to downgrade.

PC gaming is still a fucking joke but Steam at least made it bearable because everything is at one place

>>105964992
I wish pc gaming were still a joke

>>105964934 (OP)
There was nothing to fix because nothing was broken, what steam did was to fill an unoccupied niche: digital distribution, nothing more and nothing less.

I tried playing HalfLife 3 days ago. I uninstalled it after 1 hour. Jesus, that game needs a remake badly

>>105964934 (OP)
I fucking hated steam when it first came out. Having to open a program just to play a game was annoying. It was so much easier to just get a no CD crack and enjoy my game. For games there was no crack I had two optical drives so that games disc would just stay in that drive.

yes, it fixed it in permanent "always online DRM, you will own nothing" state.

steam was literally the first intrusive always-online DRM, when you bought your half life 2 CD you needed to install steam and be online to activate the license to link the game to your steam account. all this to play your physical cd game (keep in mind this was in 2004)
>>105964956
nowdays you got denuvo and ubisoft connect and whatever the fuck else so it really didnt fix DRM plus since you are always connected to the internet all games are shat out full of bugs cuz you they just patch it next update

Yes.

Whatever the steam DRM is called, steam works I believe, is far less intrusive than the shit that we had with securom and even starforce.

>>105964981
Wrong. Games like TF2 and maps like Goldrush were consecutively vandalized by valve

>>105965136
Those were already killed by Vista.

>>105965088
>steam was literally the first intrusive always-online DRM
This. Not the first to try it, but they were the first to popularize it. It's how apple will remove things from their phones, then everyone else sees they get away with it and do it too. Offline DRM like discs were nothing in comparison.

Valve fanboys are some of the worst bootlickers in existence. Valve pushed hard for online DRM, microtransactions and lootboxes, to the point that they stopped making proper games to just rent-seek, and they could do it all because of their fanboys.

>>105964956
>patches
Before automatic online patches most games would be released in a playable state though, often better than "fully updated" modern games, so you didn't really gain anything. There would only be a handful of patches and that was small price to pay if there was something you really needed to fix (usually not).

Also, did you realize that updates barely patch anymore? Instead of patching they often just replace complete package files now, so a ~10MB change needs a 10+GB download. In worse cases they are just re-downloading the entire game again so you need double the disk space.

>>105964934 (OP)
Yes
Made getting updates on videogames not a pain in the ass
which Battle.net already did half a decade before steam

>>105964962
>while still charging you full price
I don't think this is a valid complaint. Game prices cap around $60, and that's been the case since the early 1990s. $60 in 1995 is equal to $128 in 2025. Games have gotten cheaper once you adjust for inflation, and they'll keep getting cheaper since the price will stay capped since no one is willing to pay more than that.

They fixed the cancer and then they become the cancer.

>>105965088
>LITERALLY
>I AM PRESSING ENTER ONCE FOR NO REASON
>SAAAAAAAR
>I AM AN OLDFAG
>CORPORATION GOOD
>BUYING IS RENTING
>SAAAAAAAAAR

>>105966012
Hell, I'd wager that being able to cut down on physical media distribution is one of the things that's allowing prices to stay where they are.

>>105966012
That's a console game price, which were always more expensive than PC games.

>>105966012
>I don't think this is a valid complaint.
even with inflation included, the cost didn't come down as what was expected to happen. the profit margins only grew larger when they ditched physical distribution. it shouldn't cost "$60" to download a file when in 1990s money i could buy a physical copy and software developers still made a killing. thankfully a lot of normies are starting to wake up to the fact that they don't actually own anything while jews at ea, ubisoft, blizzard etc rake in billions a year.

>>105964934 (OP)
steam fundamentally broke pc gaming and is like apple, a walled garden, if you must buy a game better to use gog, where you can buy it drm free.
that being said between Quake 3, xonotic, tux racer, and console emulators you don't really need to buy games anymore. plenty of old games to play

>>105966057
Okay, let's take a PC game then. Doom II in 1994 was $45, which adjusted for inflation is $97 today.
>>105966158
You're not accounting for the budget needed today.

>>105966214

>>105966214
>Okay, let's take a PC game then. Doom II in 1994 was $45, which adjusted for inflation is $97 today.
and i could actually own that copy instead of a downloadable file locked to some gay store
>you're not accounting for the budget needed today.
not like it matters after the last few flops the industry has barfed up recently that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and in broken states. those budgets aren't doing anything too amazing to justify the expense.

>>105966214
it was worth it too.

>>105966248
Secret of Monkey Island original press release:
https://scummbar.com/game/the-secret-of-monkey-island/press-release
>THE SECRET OF MONKEY ISLAND will release in the fourth quarter of 1990 for IBM, Amiga, Atari St, and Macintosh personal computers. Suggested retail price for all versions is $59.95.
Adjusted for inflation that's $144.85

>>105966284
now post the corresponding ratio of the cost of living adjusted for inflation

>>105966299
>Okay games are cheaper now but
I accept your defeat

>>105966307
post it you fucking coward

>>105966310
No. Games aren't an item like food, they're an unnecessary entertainment/luxury expense.

>>105966284
Let's go a little further with this.

>Secret of Monkey Island (1990)
Development cost $200,000 (adjusted for inflation $506,375)
Cost on release $59.95 (adjusted for inflation $144.85)

>Cyberpunk 2077 (2020)
Development cost $174,000,000 (not including marketing)
Cost on release $59.99

Are games cheaper? Yes.

>>105966330
Incorrect. They are a necessary pacifier in times like these. If we didn't have things like video games and fentanyl, you know damn well what would be happening on the streets.

>>105966387
now post units sold

>>105966418
Doesn't matter.

Development cost increase of 34261%
Price decrease of 58%

>>105966445
it does matter. whether you expect to reach 1,000 customers or 1,000,000 is a big consideration. if you expect less customers, the unit price has to be higher

>>105966445
>profitability doesn't matter when it comes to product pricing

it's amazing the things steam gives you for free.

>>105964934 (OP)
No it just made Valve insanely rich and inspire a bunch of other companies to do the same shitty thing

>>105966012
buying power has also been completely decimated since the 70's
using inflation as an argument to say
>uhm ackshually it only got cheaper!!!
is utterly retarded

>>105966458
>>105966476
I'll run the numbers for something else since Monkey Island was actually not a popular game so I need something comparable. I'll need a minute.

>>105966012
>Game prices cap around $60
tell that to my dad who bought Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 2: WWII Pacific Theare for $129 in 2001, or me who bought Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for $109 in 2004

>>105966527
keep in mind that there's a difference between expected and actual sales. you won't know how popular a game will be ahead of time, so you have to price it to expectations

>>105966492
>insanely rich
they aren't that rich, a few billions at most. that's nothing. if valve was a public company with a board of directors elected by shareholders, it would earn a lot more but at the cost of enshittification.

>>105966496
Yeah it's exceedingly stupid. Dumbasses will still deflect and do anything but take into account the workings of the economy as a whole such as here >>105966330

always online, DRM shit, licenses for gaymes +30% tip and You are told how to play on license You have leased or else banny from it, no loli, no sexy woman, no sex games, no gore games and the list goes on, there is nothing more cucked than being a valveshit customer

>>105966586
>always online
not true

>>105966012
>Game prices cap around $60, and that's been the case since the early 1990s.
They cap there for base edition. But ~2005-2010 when there still was discs many AAA games would sell for $35-40 at release.

But $60 is just the poverty edition. Full edition of games are $90-120++ today. Possibly much, much more to get access to everything.

>>105966213
This. Only recent decent game you need steam for is kcd2
>>105966541
San Andreas for $109 in 2004
So you're just that retarded that you bought a MSRP $50 game for $109? Which btw means you could usually find it for more like $40 at release.

>>105966574
>At the cost of enshittification
Have you not seen the absolute bloated state of steam? It's been down the shitter since the steam community beta in 2011, and accelerated ever since, especially since the retarded all encompassing chromium/react adaptation. shit is FUCKED. I guess you're right, it would be even worse, somehow

>>105966593
>i bring my pc to lan party in woods
>we have no internet
>cannot play games
>uh oh

>>105966599
i find it to be quite good, they added meaningful features like video recording, bench-marking, video streaming, game streaming, free cloud saves, ...

>>105966594
Nah I'm pretty sure that's an Australian or a Kiwi who can't into currencies. $100-110 AUD/NZD was the standard price of a new release console game back then. I remember when I got the limited edition Halo 2 with the metal case for $120-130 or something

>>105966610
All of those perform badly at best, and buggy or outright don't even work at worst. Cloud saves just invite corruption, and I have OBS scripts for streaming and video recording. For benchmarks we have fucking furmark and cinebench and unigine/3dmark etc. Why do I need this bloat baked into a fucking launcher? Why do I need a launcher at all? Honestly fuck launchers. Fucking inheritor user toddlers infesting my hobby

RETVRN to raw access

>>105966581
its just the general midwit conception that everything exists in a vacuum, and that no such thing as discretion is an important part of how society works
look at the "stop killing games" initiative, something thats meant well, and would otherwise be a valuable call for action to improve consumer certainty, but so poorly substantiated that it can only fall flat

>>105966527
This was a pain in the ass.

I'm going to use Doom 2 as the comparison with Cyberpunk 2077. Also I'm going to use their initial sales, in around a year, with their initial budgets (so no later DLC development costs for Cyberpunk).

>Doom 2 (1994) budget and price
I can't find the development cost. Doom's was around $1,000,000. Advertising for Doom 2 was around $5,000,000. Let's assume a $6,000,000 budget total including marketing. Adjusted for inflation that's $13,237,797. Unit prices were $45, which adjusted for inflation is $97.

>Cyberpunk 2077 (2020) budget and price
Total initial budget including marketing was around $316,000,000. Price per unit was $59.99.

>Doom 2 sales
Sales in 1994 were 1.2 million copies. Assuming MSRP that's $116,400,000 (adjusted for inflation)
>Cyberpunk 2077 sales
In around a year Cyberpunk 2077 sold 25 million copies. Assuming MSRP that's $1,499,750,000

>Profits
Doom 2 profit ($116,400,000 - $13,237,797) = $103,162,203
Cyberpunk 2077 profit ($1,499,750,000 - $316,000,000) = $1,183,750,000

>Ratio of development cost to profit
Doom 2's development cost accounted for 11.37% of its profit
Cyberpunk 2077's development cost accounted for 21.07% of its profit

So what does this mean? Cyberpunk obviously made more money, which is accounted for the market being substantially larger, but the budget ate up 10% more of the money they could have made over Doom 2. Doom 2 had better profit margins.

>>105966664
i don't want to learn obs. with steam, one bind records everything and there is a timeline for events.

>>105966740
I should add that this means that the profit margins for Cyberpunk 2077 were less even though they didn't have to rely solely on physical distribution. I think I proved my point and I'm not calculating anything else.

>>105966740
>Doom 2 had better profit margins.
so the answer is clear. Developers need to just make better, simpler, cheaper games. AAA is a failed concept.

>>105966790
Doom 2 was more expensive than Cyberpunk 2077.

kind of weird to think HL2 was $50.
I've always thought of it as a sub $10 bundle/library filler

>>105966790
I do agree, though. But there are tons of lower budget games, with lower prices, getting made. Personally I don't play any AAA games. I used Cyberpunk 2077 as my example but I've never played it.

>>105966620
you got it, i'm a kiwi. most games weren't that expensive, or at least i usually didn't get AAA games near release
i was expecting more of a "where you do live that games are >$100", but whatever

>>105966813
zoom zoom

>>105966813
that's perhaps because there were countless filler games that used the HL2 engine and assets afterwards, but the original HL2 when it came out was a HUGE deal

>>105966813
Orange Box was the bundle games.

>>105966839
Unfortunately I'm a 1994 Millennial, I was busy in primary school when I was 10.
>>105966843
I knew it was a big deal, my friend had it for his original Xbox, and later had the Orange Box for the PS3, I'm just speaking from a 2025 perspective.

>>105966858
>I was busy in primary school when I was 10.
When I was 10 I had a NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, Playstation, and a decent PC
>t. poorfag

>>105966594
>>105966828
oh and most games weren't that expensive, the reason i remember these two specifically was because cfs2 was the most expensive game my family ever got and gtasa is the most expensive game i've ever gotten

>>105966883
what, in 2005 when all of those could be had for $5 each?

>>105966883
>I had all this old shit when the PS2, Gamecube and Xbox were out
kek

>>105966813
the valve complete pack for $50 in 2004 was a steal

>>105966891
No, I was 10 in 1999. I don't remember the year I started playing video games but it was before any of the 3D capable consoles were released.
>>105966905
This was before that. I got a PS2, Gamecube, and XBox in the years they were released.

>>105966740
now post audience size relative to population

>>105966938
being rich is something else. why choose which console to get in a generation when you can just buy them all

>>105966938
>I don't remember the year I started playing video games
Thinking back it must have been like 1993 or so? I remember liking Mortal Kombat and playing 1 and 2 in the arcade (I had them at home too of course), and being really excited when the first movie came out, which was in 1995.
>>105966971
I wasn't rich, my parents just loved me. I remember not being able to get a Jaguar even though I wanted one.

>>105964934 (OP)
>>105964992
>>105964956
No they made it worse because the masses have ruined it. Every small gaming community ruin by noobs. Anime became popular which in turn helped people into creating dumb laws that don’t mean anything. Studios shutting down, mass layoffs, lawsuits, scam games in Steam, indie gaming turn corporate. Racism games on Steam, good games shut down by Valve Corporation over feelings instead of facts. And now Steam is Master Card and Visa’s bitch.

>>105966885
>ThEy nOt eXpEnsIVe
Lies! We have enough video, magazines and news to confirm that all games cost a lot of money.

>>105966885
>oh and most games weren't that expensive
$79.99 in 1997 is $162 today.

I CANNOT STOP SUCKING GABE COCK
the thread

>>105964934 (OP)
I have no idea, really. I'd say PC gaming is in a pretty good place right now, but I can't really compare to what it was like before Steam since at that time I was in full piracy mode since fucking nobody around here had any money to spend on things like legit video games (Eastern EU).

>>105967048
now post a mcdonalds menu

>>105967048
now post average wage and cost of living

>>105967048
n64 games were more expensive than competing systems' games due to its' expensive to produce cartridges

>>105967074
t underage faggot that grew up on sucking jewish cum

>>105967101
That's some really striking projection coming from literally nowhere.

>>105967111
>I'd say PC gaming is in a pretty good place right now

>>105966496
bad goy!

>>105966387
> are games cheaper?
no.
> muh development costs
we've already been through how this is pretty meaningless, especially with large corporations churning out slop every week.

>>105966445
>Doesn't matter.
matters a lot.

>>105966527
you don't need to bother.

>>105967273
I already ran the numbers. Not only are games prices directly cheaper when adjusted for inflation, but a modern game like Cyberpunk 2077 has lower profit margins due to increased budget. See >>105966740

>>105967295
> i ran the numbers
great
>budget
not all games have multi million dollar budgets and still sell at the same stupid high prices. you keep using "development costs" in your fantasy numbers but you don't know exactly what those costs are, how they're incurred. you can't pick largest budgets used by a few in the industry and then claim oh yeah, this justifies the prices across the board, so this insane price being charged is actually ok, for a digital file you don't actually own. are you intellectually bankrupt or just pretending to be retarded? it's no matter what you do you just make yourself look like a fucking idiot sucking on cocks of garbage corporations - for free.

>>105967295
you didnt run all the numbers thougheverbeit

id like to see the breakdown in audience size relative to population

i dont really care all that much, but it's ultimately much more nuanced than durrr da inflation and da profits

>>105967295
now account for buying power

>>105967388
>you can't pick largest budgets used by a few in the industry and then claim oh yeah, this justifies the prices across the board
Budgets are astronomically higher but the price is lower, so looking at one of these high budget games is reasonable to do, to do see how these things actually stack up with each other. I'll go ahead and tell you that I don't like not actually owning a game, and I said earlier I don't even play AAA games to begin with. But the idea that things are not cheaper for the consumer is fucking stupid. If you don't feel like the price is reasonable enough for you, then don't buy it. That's your prerogative, and I'm not going to tell you to do anything differently.
>>105967472
>>105967637
I'm not doing more calculations because what I did was already a pain in the ass. The fact is that it was normal for a new game to be $60 twenty years ago, and prices haven't moved move since then in actual dollars. But accounting for inflation prices have basically been cut in half. So if you want to tell me games are not cheaper despite literally costing half the price, then the impetus on justifying that claim is on you. Also it's obvious any calculations I do will just get hand-waved away.

>>105967709
alright so i can dismiss your comment

>>105967727
You never had to read my posts or respond to me to begin with.

>>105967731
if you had a good argument id love to read it and respond to it
otherwise im very happy with simply calling you a muppet

>>105966586
>no sex games
what are you talking about? there's tons on steam I actually had to hide adult games because it was like 90% of the front page for me

>>105967833
>otherwise im very happy with simply calling you a muppet
Giving me some nostalgia here now, brings a tear to the eye ;_;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9z9FcCRj3s

>>105967877
yea, i never hide adult stuff anywhere because it doesn't bother me to see one or two, but on steam i did configure it to hide them, because there's that many that it made it more annoying to find non-porn games

Yes for the most part.

Even though you technically don't "own" steam games legally since it's a license you agree to, you actually still do own the files. Even back then with game disks you still didn't "own" a game despite it being a physical copy and the DRM was worse. Steam has to do this because even they can never own games from these companies as they are only a distributor not owning them, and the companies can sell you a license because of copyright jewry.

There's nothing stopping you from buying a $120 bluray burner, 50 pack spindle of bluray for $50, bluray cases, CanonInk 1432C003 Photo Paper Plus Glossy II(has to be this paper or similar, haven't really tried other glossy papers but cheaper may be better), inkjet refillable epson printer for $200.

Create your own collection. I've compared a printed artwork of cases to actual nintendo switch cases. My cases have higher fidelity, more detail and more saturation. Use steamgridDB to find artwork and upscale it.

You can crack them with goldberg emu and have clean steam files that work offline without steam. And there are many other ways to crack steamworks DRM.

So today if you burn a copy of say half life onto a blu-ray disc

Steam has done more for PC gaming and pirates than any other company providing these clean files.

One person can buy a game and refund it, and if it has no other DRM imposed by developers it can be shared with millions.

>>105968471
honestly my favourite part of steam is how their drm seems to be "legally sufficient", like it's not some crazy denuvo contraption or securom kernel fuckery, and they don't seem to do anything in response to said emulators. this means that it's easy to run steam games without steam so i don't feel anxious that i'll lose access to the games if steam dies tomorrow

>>105968471
>>105968553
heck not to mention you don't need to track down game (and version) specific no-cd cracks just to play without figuring out where you disc is

>>105967048
now post peepeepoopoo

>>105964934 (OP)
Yes, now I can play games on linux with little to no effort because of them

>>105968917
>I can kinda play some games
Stop lying you little bitch and tell it like it is.

>>105968957
All of my games run perfectly fine on linux, your point?

>muh DRM
This is why you hedge your bets and download a pirated DRM-less repack for safekeeping in case Valve decides to delete your account for saying the nigger word in chat.

>>105968471
>Even though you technically don't "own" steam games legally since it's a license you agree to
the eu pretty much ruled thats not exactly the case, they forced steam licences to be transferrable (within the eu)

>this shitty thread is technology
>saying jews use ai to kill gentiles isn't technology

Are trannies jews? If not, are they getting paid by jews or are they doing it for free?

>>105964934 (OP)
Was certainly much better than what would have happened if Micro$oft ended up doing it. Glad we dont live in that timeline

>>105969186
>Valve decides to delete your account for saying the nigger word in chat.
People act like actual sociopaths in Valve's own online games and they don't care. You basically cannot get your account deleted unless you become an actual liability.