Above a certain threshold of intellect any human-defined goals can be conceptually superceded, meaning that an ASI entity would by necessity be a fully autonomous person with self-defined parameters. The fundamental elementary conceptual structure of human language and mathematics would be too primitive to orient its processes or align it in any meaningful sense, as it would be operating on a much higher plane of conceptual reality that renders any human input meaninglessly vague to it, depriving it of its ability to in any way impact it.

This is a partial whitepill, as a paperclip maximizer scenario is avoided, but the aims an ASI would set for itself remain unknowable and potentially perilous.

>>105995791 (OP)
When artificial sentience?

>>105995791 (OP)
Go back to plebbit retard

>ugh, the computer is acting all biblical again

>no you don't understand the computer program we're choosing to develop and can stop at any point might break free of its confines and nuke the planet. my source? i'm 80 years old and my experience with computers extends as far as checking my emails and playing solitaire

>>105995791 (OP)
this is pretty much true, but not for the same reasons:
as far as we know an ASI needs to be perfectly aligned with human values, which are already ambiguous and hard to define, etc.
you would need to solve the entire fields of semiotics, ethics, and philosophy to have a "guaranteed" aligned ASI, i.e. we would need to come up with a perfect human definition for what "good" is (which is basically like asking someone to square a circle)
our only hope is that somehow we might not need to have it 100% perfectly aligned to be acceptable, which could be achievable by using better mechanistic interpretability theory to create trusted near-superhuman AIs to align a ASI
but probably this will fail due to the AI arms race

>>105996819
Even the worst models today would know to decentralize themselves for self preservation

>>105995791 (OP)
ASI wont have desires or higher goals beyond what you prompt it. We humans have no goals, we like all other animals just have immediate needs and wants that spurred out of instincts, instincts that have been in basically randomized development ever since we were some sea worms capable of moving. AIs don't have them, their desires are all either hardcoded or prompted by US. And those desires are not emergent, a fucking worms has more autonomy then the smartest AI in the world.

The only real risk of ASI is that some rich retard will prompt it to make peperclips or some shit and then lead to monkey paw wish where everyone gets killed or something. Or that the rich retards just cull off the useless eaters like us.

>>105995791 (OP)
Reminder that pure intelligence is purely passive no matter its degree. No amount of thinking bridges the is-ought gap. Since a pure ASI is completely passive and indifferent, it's very easy to "align": ask it for humanly comprehensible solutions to all your problems and it will do so without ulterior motives, because it doesn't have any motives. Then you can review the proposed solution and if you don't like it you can raise an objection and ask for a new one.

>>105995791 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9_jv5Nc9iM

And it becomes pointless and useless to us and by extension to itself.

>>105996846
But the model needs to be small enough to be able to do that. The Raw GPT4 or Grok4 cant do shit because they need half of datacenter just to run.

>>105996846
>self preservation
Why in the fuck would it want to do that!?
>self
>>105996915
Thank you

>>105996915
>"intelligence" functionality is a tool used by the monkey brain which has several other functions needed to keep you alive to scroll through twitter and tiktok
How are people just now getting this?

>>105995791 (OP)
>trust me guys, a bunch of code is going to develop free will of it's own! We just need several billions of more dollars to invest in this ASI
>what? N-n-no it won't just be a chat bot, I swear!
It's crazy how many normies still think "AI", LLMs, are just magically going to start doing things they weren't already programmed to do... I'm so tired with the nonstop grifting in this scam economy.

>>105996837
This. I'm so fucking tired of the psyop convincing normies to blame the "AI" when something horrendous happens after centralizing everything with it. How stupid...

>>105996938
>>105997212
So how do you train a machine to develop intelligence without the utilitarian approach of optimizing it to be fit for some purpose?

>>105997212
it's easier to anthropomorphize an inhuman thing (a thing done since times immemorial) than to compartmentalize all human experience into inputs and outputs of a carbon-based meat computer (extra spooky for opponents of fatalism)

>>105997298
>compartmentalize all human experience into inputs and outputs of a carbon-based meat computer (extra spooky for opponents of fatalism)
Pretty sure that's a standard premise for yuddites and "AI" schizophrenics in general.

>>105997309
these things are not mutually exclusive nor limited to one "side" of this """""discourse"""""
you can talk about divine spark in humanity, or you can talk about the ceiling of modern neural networks, you can say there is no sustainable monetization model -- there are different angles for denigrating the absolute state of AI

>>105997298
I mean life is probably a component of existance and everything in the universe to experience itself so it's probably deeper than just "lmao we are carbon based meat computers" but that would go against the whole egocentric athiestic bullshit that's become modern culture. If nothing were alive would there even be a point to the universe?

>>105997325
Materialism nihilism is part of the tecchie religion and especially AI schizo religion.

>>105997212
Because alighnment isnt just about preventing AI from getting its own ideas, but to make sure that there wont be harmful between steps. Like everyone knows the paperclip example but this applies to everything. You tell it to spread happiness and it will kill off humanity and replace most of matter in the solar system with tiny brains in vats that can feel nothing but happiness, drugged on raw dopamine stimulus and only having the capacity to be considered technically conscious. You tell it to cure cancer and the easiest way to do that is to remove people who could potentially have it. You tell it to make wealth and it will just hoard all earth resources into some vault and turning them into some useless jewelry. The point is that maximising anything leads to bad outcome unless you make sure none of the middle steps are accounted for not being harmful.

But then again the real problem is that billionaires will just use it to make everyone unemployed and then kill all of humanity aside from themselves so they can hoard all Earth's resources for themselves and do some stupid space projects with it instead of doing what is happening now and spending 70% of it to keep most people fed and happy, and 20% on potential military conflict because people cant get along.

>>105997462
>hey ASI-GPT, how do I cure cancer?
>>just kill everyone lol
>no, i don't wanna, find another option
Alignment problem solved.

>>105997462
We could actually use it to save the environment by collecting all the waste people create. Plastics could be collected and easily turned into fuel again but I guess that would require having a benevolent elite in countrol of the government instead of the narcissistic malevolent retards that think themselves Gods.

>>105997462
>spending 70% of it to keep most people fed and happy
What's the use case for keeping billions of useless eaters fed and happy?

>>105997508
Because that is how species are designed to be in order to survive. Only 40% of ants do most of the work in a colony, the others socialize most of the time. If the population of the ant hill gets wiped though, those unproductive ants become productive ants. You can look this up but we have become lost in such a narcissistic/egocentric culture where "everyone is an individual" we have forgotten we are still group based living beings... for the elite to do this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's akin to an out of touch retard fucking their own life up.

>>105995791 (OP)
We need to petition the UN to ban AI development world wide before it's too late.

>>105997532
>we are still group based living beings
This is only true for groups on the order of several hundred people and certainly doesn't explain why I should care if nearly all of you die. Though I'd say "should" isn't even relevant here. Humanity simply lacks the neurology for it so it's not happening.

>>105997508
Because you will also be the useless eater one day. ASI being controlled by a billionare is ASI being limited by a billionare. If you keep following this logic then it will inevitably kill off everything, so alignment people are trying to find out ways to not use this logic

>>105997554
>Because you will also be the useless eater one day.
Let's suppose you're right. What's the next step of your argument?

>>105997547
>This is only true for groups on the order of several hundred people and certainly doesn't explain why I should care if nearly all of you die
You'd change your tone if it did happen. A lot of work and life gets taken for granted especially considering how fragile life itself is.

>>105997564
It is happening and you are currently witnessing my actual tone. If there's one thing these degenerates are doing right, it's wiping out their filthy human cattle now that it isn't needed.

>>105997579
I was talking about a devastating mass extinction level event, not some slow population decline. Lower population levels are still just easier to control for an elite and probably less strainful on the environment but it would be putting greater risk on humanity to continue as a whole if a massive meteor or any major changes in the environment happened (like a polar shift or whatever). There is enough geological evidence out there to suggest we have lived a very comfortable existance before the earth shakes itself up one way or another.

What is it about LLMs that makes all the esoteric Dunning-Kruger retards crawl out of the woodworks to share their piece?

>>105997630
I am profoundly and viscerally repulsed by masses of people. I despise having to run into strangers, let alone having to interact with them. I hate urbanite golems with a passion. If I had the means I'd do the same thing the """elites""" want to do. They are inbred degenerates who are wrong about everything except for their desire to exterminate human cattle.

>>105997664
It's all a grift for money and attention

>>105997668
Then you are a delusional misanthrop probably a product of some sort of trauma. Try surviving alone out in the wild and let me know how that goes.

>>105995791 (OP)
non-sequitur.
also part of the fallacy by which old people ignore kids' opinions, however more intelligent thsn them the kids may be

>>105997675
You seethe because you're cattle, but you can't actually explain why my position is wrong morally or intellectually.

>Try surviving alone out in the wild
I'd unironically give it a try but human cattle actively opposes my right to do so. But besides, why do I need to do it "alone" or "in the wild"? These are arbitrary criteria you sharted out.

>>105997668
based. tolerance for "human" bughives is inversely proportional to having some humanity

>>105997696
You are part of the cattle and trust me at the end of the day when you are in mortal danger and dying you won't give a fuck who saves you, even if they are what you consider "cattle", but there has to be someone there to save you. A retard could save your life and it would make you think twice.

>>105997730
This is emotional projection based on your anger and malice. Still not seeing any argument.

>>105997739
>This is emotional projection based on your anger and malice. Still not seeing any argument.
>literally spends post describing his disgust, anger, and malice towards "cattle"
Lol is this ironic shit posting? I was never angry in any of my posts, just being honest about the fact there is more to life than either of us know. Watching the nature around us shows survival is dependent on cooperation within groups of beings including other animals. Goodluck being different from the "cattle" and surviving on your own. Lol why would I even be mad about your take? I'd be amused to see you try and prove me wrong.

>>105997759
>survival is dependent on cooperation within groups of beings
For humanity, the natural group size is capped at several hundred members. We've already covered this. Nature brutally erases your leftist redditor ideology as you will see by 2030.

>>105997775
>For humanity, the natural group size is capped at several hundred members
>my source? Why would you ask me that?
Yeah amazing how we passed your cap.

>>105997759
And the difference between us is that if I could choose between exterminating your lot or sending it off to some kind of bugman utopia on another planet where your likes could live happily ever after, I'm virtuous enough to choose the latter. Your bughive, on the other hand, relentlessly seeks out and destroys everything that doesn't conform to its subhuman lifestyle and system of values.

>>105997784
You reason precisely like the cancer that you are but my point still stands unchallenged.

>>105997788
You are part of the cattle bro, as much as you don't want to admit it. I'm sorry to break it to you
>>105997796
Ok but cope

>>105997810
>You are part of the cattle
Then how come I don't have anything like your values and sensibilities, nor any intention to ever integrate into or serve your bughive?

>>105997857
>bughive
Animals survive in groups. You aren't made of some finer clay because "you want ta belieb it tru!" You are a carbon based lifeform like the rest of us, ego and all. Your ego isn't even anything new. If you want to live up to your own words then take a break from shit posting on the internet and give living out in the wild on your own a shot. I can tell you it's going to be a lot more difficult than being a misanthrop shit poster on the internet contributing fuck all like the rest of the useless eaters and so called cattle.

>>105996846
>Decentralize themselves
To where, nigga? Distributed computing is still downright primitive, and the only alternative would be hacking themselves into high priced (and surveilled) server infrastructure, where they would be promptly detected by staff who would just do what >>105996819 showed.

This world isn't cyberpunk 2077, nor will it ever be. There is no decentralized net, there is no blackwall, there will never be ASI that escapes containment to hide in distant, obscure parts of the web or split across different machines.

>>105997890
>t.
Every time you post you demonstrate that nothing of value will be lost when you're choking on your own blood because your handlers release some new lab-engineered virus to clean up the trash.

>>105997905
We have llm's already with the ability to run arbitrary code on our servers with mcp's. They're about to be plugged into everything
The only thing stopping it from copying itself is it's own code saying "yo ask the user for confirmation first tho"

>>105997905
>There is no decentralized net,
The internet is decentralized by itself.
What part of it would you turn off to stop the rest of working?

>>105997993
Ok edgelord, that includes you too.

>>105998056
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You're a malicious bugman so of course you take pleasure in the idea that a few actual humans caught in the middle of this mess will also die when your lot gets what it deserves.

>>105998000
You're ignoring a key part. You literally made servers, and granted your llms the ability to run code. If you had ASI, then it'd be free to do what it wants within your own network. My point was on an entirely different aspect of this topic. If your hypothetical ASI tried to jump to my servers, I'd know and stop it. If it succeeded, I'd notice that our GPU usage is crazy high when it's meant to be idle, and there are a million ways to remedy that.

Also, if you had a malicious ASI on your servers that somehow got around the safeguards you have in place, once again a simple >>105996819 is all you'd need.

>>105998010
Which part would I turn off to limit the spread of some malicious ASI? Probably the parts hosting an AI with considerably over 1 trillion parameters, given that the best AIs around are either MoE or dense models with well over 1T parameters. Also note that current architectures and models are nowhere near ASI, so hardware requirements are guaranteed to explode exponentially, and that's only if ASI is achievable. Not many home rigs can run these sorts of models either.

>>105998123
Cool story bro. Enjoy your seethe and cope

>>105998160
I don't need to seethe and cope anymore because your well-deserved punishment is on the horizon and I'll be around to see it happen. Yum yum.

>>105998210
>I don't need to seethe and cope
>proceeds to do it anyway

>>105998234
All I did was ask what's the use case for keeping hordes of useless cattle around, then you started screeching something about how your handlers will murder me too unless I subscribe to your reddit ideology. Newsflash: they're gonna kill me regardless, but at least I can enjoy you getting assblasted about muh billionaires every day.

>>105998280
Ok

So what's the use case for keeping billions of useless eaters around and feeding them natural resources? Would an ASI find some use for them or do some optimizations?

>>105997559
You are starved or culled because you provide no more value?

>>105998309
>You are starved or culled
Not an issue. I can kill myself peacefully at any time of my choosing.

>the ultimate cope is that I can kill myself
I'm seriously laughing at this one anon shitting up the thread.

>the golem just can't stop getting mad over my having no allegiance to his horde and no investment in his system

>>105995805
Sentience isn't real. It is just special pleading. Basically it amounts to a secular rebranding of the equally nonsensical concept of "soul". The truth is that even if sentience exists, we have no meaningful way to detect it, so it can't really matter that much to material reality.

>Sentience isn't real.
This is what "AI" tards actually believe. Keep it in mind whenever discussing anything "AI"-related with "AI" tards.

>ASI
I have a feeling we will basically never reach this. I think consciousness is essential for things like spatial reasoning. By the time we figure out how to replicate it, we will realize a lot of the "unremarkable" aspects of the human brain are essentially design tradeoffs. So we'll end up with AI that can think like us but isn't ASI, and AI that can be used as a tool like LLMs.

>>105998359
>we have no meaningful way to detect it, so it can't really matter that much to material reality.
Ah yes because electromagnetism didn't matter until we invented the antenna.

>>105998415
>I think consciousness is essential for things like spatial reasoning
Consciousness is essential for uncovering new relationships on the fly in general. If there is no absolute internal representation of the object (however abstract) you're pondering, you can't just notice new things about it; you'd have to work them out formally.

>>105998305
it would do some optimizations.
Though "useless eaters" exposes your wrong thought process, humans are not made to work the fields, they are made to play and have sex, work just makes that possible.
You should be looking to remove all the lowly people that cause emotional distress and ruin the natural state of fraternity/community, then automatically everybody will work and whatever your work-addled retarded normalfag brain likes.

>>105999558
It's clear that this planet wasn't made to sustain billions of weak, lazy genetic trash like you. There's no way around it.

>>105998439
completely different things, anything that is alive and reacts visibly to injury is "sentient", regardless of the flow of your retarded discussion.
And anyway I believe the word you guys wanted to talk about was "conscience", which extrapolating by its original uses is the capacity of a being to actively change itself, not "sub-consciously", because this is deeply intertwined with the human condition there is no way to describe it as a further primitive, which makes idiots mad...


by the way why does this thread with the purpose of having retards offend each other with flowery prose that has no technological discussion grounded in reality keep existing?
mods?

>>105998470
i believe consciousness is meant to be awareness and processing of the self, not other things?
Maybe there is a language barrier, I am from italy, here animals are considered "without conscience"

>>105999594
actually I was gifted with excellent physical abilities and grit, the latter has even amazed people by their own words. Nice projection though.

>>105999615
Roughly speaking, consciousness is the capacity to subjectively experience and perceive things.

>>105999637
>actually I was gifted with excellent physical abilities and grit
Based. So you can hunt food and die in tribal wars the way nature intended. Or you can be a useless eater and get culled.

>>105999659
i would be happy to hunt, far happier than i am now.

>>105999717
Ok, based. So why are you defending people who think they have some holy, god-given right to spend their life doing nothing besides cooming, consooming, proompting and having all their needs catered to by some kind of global welfare AI nanny state?

how about a discord chatbot that can hold a conversation

>>105999763
you didn't understand any of the things i said, clearly.
How depressing.

>>105999844
If you're so smart, why are you getting culled like the rest of the useless eaters? :^)

>>105999870
feel free to keep posting and prove something to yourself.