Was UE4 less bloated OOB than UE5? Or is it simply a matter of indie game makers not toggling options they should have?

both probably

>>106007741 (OP)
I have been working with the unreal engine since before the UDK was a thing, even making mods for Unreal Tournament 2004. I can safely say that it is 100% modern devs being lazy pieces of shit and a lot of the learning is cargo culting from youtube video tutorials. However Epic has made a mess of their deferred renderer making it blurry and smeary but even that can be mitigated with some effort. The jump from Kismet to Blueprints was really huge and made it too easy for double digit iq retards to fuck around with.

>>106007775
>However Epic has made a mess of their deferred renderer making it blurry and smeary
I'm more curious about this from the perspective of using purely forward rendering, that's all I ever knew given I used to do Source modding so when I jumped into UE for the first time to try and learn it the first thing I immediately did was to try and turn everything in the standard project settings down or off to make it as similar to what I knew.
>the jump to blueprints was huge
Yes, it definitely makes the barrier to entry lower though it seems like a useful stepping stone nonetheless.

>>106007775
i recently built a new gayming PC and was excited to try all the games in benchmarks

only to find out that they are all blurry UE messes, it's so disheartening, I know it's AAAslop but I thought at least they would have next gen graphics

are there any examples of UE5 games that aren't blurred messes?

>>106007802
It's a mess because of temporal effects like TAA which a lot of the deferred effects need or else they will look noisy but the temporal effects makes things smear, especially in high contrast areas. Then there are the post effects that soften the image resulting in blurring and other effects use down sampled passes which makes things blurry. Basically the deferred render is taking a ton of short cuts to get things to look "better" like having a ton of dynamic lights and stuff like that would choke it's forward renderer.

>>106007803
I don't play modern games, the only game I really play is rocket league. Download the ureal engine 5 and play around with some of the sample projects. See how much of the matrix city demo your PC can handle. Also play around with the forward renderer to see the difference and limitations.

the last game i played was final fantasy vii made in unreal engine™

>>106007775
>cargo culting from youtube video tutorials
how to learn without youtube and paid tutorials? just reading the manual?

>>106007741 (OP)
every cutting-edge technology is bloated for its time, until hardware catches up

>>106008151
yeah, what are you, a nigger?

>>106007741 (OP)
Both.
>>106007775
retard. ue5 forward rendering is totally fucked. the performance sucks compared to ue 4.27, 0 devs work on it. they want you to use defered rendering. even for VR standalone. which is fucking retarded and the reason you wont find a single ue5 app on the meta quest store.

>>106007741 (OP)
they are both bloated with blueprints

>>106007741 (OP)
UE5 is the best engine on the market.

>>106008195
>the performance sucks compared to ue 4.27
Wasn't there a UE4 version that ran even better than that? That being said, I only downloaded UE5 for GPU accelerated lightmap compilation unless UE4 has that too along with less TAA dependency (sans being the place where it began).

>>106008151
Yes reading the manual and video tutorials are fine but not if it's from dude that just learned the engine last month. Find tutorials by people who actually have experience. Back in the day I did the massive series by Jason Busby (RIP), it was very thorough and covered every part of the engine.

>>106008195
It's not my fault they broke it. My last game was with one of the early versions of 4.2. I'm making a custom 2D engine from scratch for my current game so I don't have to deal with this bullshit anymore.

>>106008151
What about books?

>>106007775
>The jump from Kismet to Blueprints was really huge and made it too easy for double digit iq retards to fuck around with.
pains me that when I last had the curiosity to learn ue4, most of their own c++ tutorials (it helps you get used to how things work in the engine/familiarize with the API) were severely outdated and referenced classes/methods that didn't exist anymore or that the parameter list was different, meanwhile all the blueprint ones (seemed to be) were up to date.
really shows where their focus was/is

I don't understand how stalker 2 can look so bad and perform even worse.
Theyre 5 major patches in and there has been no improvement.
I'm on a 9800x3d and 9070xt btw.

>>106007741 (OP)
UE5 probably decided to pivot to TV and Movie SFX. That's why it's so shit.

UE5 is the reason I don't buy new games. It's garbage and everything looks like SHIT

>>106007741 (OP)
>Or is it simply a matter of indie game makers not toggling options they should have?
At least you know! It's massively feature creep and devs getting stuck on old how-to guides that are not applicable anymore. They should sell their engine with trained engineers, but then again they don't sell it. It's free and they only charge you if your game didn't fail.

The biggest problem is retiring boomers, which probably also wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace of the feature creep, but at least they would know the basics.

>>106008526
UE4 is still blur slop, but for some weird reason the transition from 4 to 5 introduced some real big stinky performance bugs that literally no UE5 game seems to be able to solve.
I have literally played a UE4 title and its sequel, a UE5 title and the performance difference is ridiculous. also the game doesn't look better either.

>>106007775
aside from the fundamental issues with the engine, like the rendering and the asset loading pipeline, it does very much suffer from the fact that epic themselves marketed the engine to companies as something that you don't really need technical know-how to use.
>dont worry you dont need a programmer, just use blueprints
a lot of unreal games run like ass because of artists and designers attaching absolutely awful blueprint scripts to stuff, which chokes the main thread. no amount of DLSS can save you from your frametimes being retardedly inconsistent either. even though i had a nominal 120 fps in marvel rivals, it actually ran at more like a hard capped 70 refreshes a second due to inconsistent frametimes. i had to upgrade to a 9800x3d to solve the issue

>>106008151
>>106008397
when i was trying to pick up unreal in like 2020, all the manuals and official documentation were just shit. i was trying to learn the gameplay ability system from an official video and the devs themselves weren't sure how it was supposed to be used lol

>>106008563
>when i was trying to pick up unreal in like 2020, all the manuals and official documentation were just shit. i was trying to learn the gameplay ability system from an official video and the devs themselves weren't sure how it was supposed to be used lol
curse of all major commercial software.
to be fair, companies don't incentivize you to become zealots and actually know and dog food your shit to such a level.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's pretty harrowing.

>>106008563
>a lot of unreal games run like ass because of artists and designers attaching absolutely awful blueprint scripts to stuff, which chokes the main thread
this, UE5 is a very fairly good iteration on UE4. it gets way too much flak from normies for devs who don't check their polygon count and script ticks. it's good. except:
>>106008195
>ue5 forward rendering is totally fucked. the performance sucks compared to ue 4.27, 0 devs work on it. they want you to use defered rendering. even for VR standalone. which is fucking retarded and the reason you wont find a single ue5 app on the meta quest store.
yeah you have to hack the renderer back to 2007 and bake. which is ok but not just werks.

In UE5, are blueprints worse the c++ for performance?
From my limited exposure to it, it looks like blueprints maps directly to c++, and ij some cases it makes reading the "code" easier in blueprints form.
Of course when you get to things like arithmetic expressions code is far far easier to read.

>>106008707
>yeah you have to hack the renderer back to 2007 and bake
Whatever that means anyway.

>>106008715
>In UE5, are blueprints worse the c++ for performance?
yeah by a significant margin afaik
>some cases it makes reading the "code" easier in blueprints form.
id say for actual heavy duty programming it's harder to read, modify and copy. consider a scenario where you want to find a way to do something and you can only find a picture of it in blueprint form.

really the only 2 benefits of blueprints is that it is less intimidating to brainlets because cute squiggly lines and blue boxes, and the fact that it's not c++

>>106008749
How borked is unreal C++?
I've noticed a lot of big frameworks require a meta compiler because they add all this stuff to it. Like Q_OBJECTs in Qt5.

>>106008749
>really the only 2 benefits of blueprints is that it is less intimidating to brainlets because cute squiggly lines and blue boxes, and the fact that it's not c++
it's way more that it's not UE C++
some things are very specific and I can't even imagine beginning to write it without making errors. you'd have to be seasoned in C++ to even start.

>>106008781
i don't really know that much about C++ programming in general, it's just overkill for 90% of the stuff you'd need to script in a game. fucking around with header files and compiling for 10 minutes isn't really what you want when you just want a yellow ball to glide across the screen over 1 second. if you were to use exclusively c++, it would probably take like 2x long to develop an average game in unreal vs how long it would take in unity, but with blueprints it only takes 1.5x as long. i could never get into the groove of the unreal workflow, everything just felt so slow, awkward and obtuse compared to unity

the fact that unity made several earthshattering blunders and has shittier monetization but is STILL the preferred choice should tell you something about how bad unreal feels to use, for small dev at least

>>106007775
Honestly, UE's documentation is abysmal. They kind of force you to rely on shitty youtube tutorials to understand the engine

>>106008715
there's overhead to using any of the tools in unreal in general. the material editor is a great example. it makes creating shaders like particles easy but the downside is it easily bloats the vfx pipeline and creates the infamous "stutter" problem.

>>106008715
>blueprints maps directly to c++
Don't know what it is now, but few years ago it was like a virtual machine. Blueprint program was like uint8[] with operation codes, with it's own stack.

>>106007775
>blurry and smeary
UE 5 is used to animale the recent season of the Ladybug show, and it is really blurry. Textures are hardly visible.

>>106007741 (OP)
Both. UE4 is less bloated, and UE5 OOB comes with retarded defaults that most non-dev amateur game builders are too retarded to untick the checkboxes.
UE5 when properly configured is still more bloated and performs and looks worse than UE4, but the difference becomes reasonable.

>>106008555
I heard someone say that even if you toggle the right options OOB, the overhead is still a lot bigger in UE5. And I heard that even 4.27 had feature creep from 5.0 backported in. Some games finished on 4.16 around 2021.

>>106008870
I hear people constantly telling me Unreal is better for solo developers though, especially those with an Fps background.